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01:04:07 <zzo38> I have idea: data Program = Halt Expression | Continue | Assign Expression Expression Program | While Expression Program Program; data Expression = Zero | Successor Expression | Dereference Expression | With Expression Expression | Call Program | Oracle Program;
01:05:11 <zzo38> If you have such halting oracle, what is the powerfulness?
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01:07:33 <oerjan> zzo38: about like brainhype, i think
01:10:07 <FreeFull> zzo38: Then you have to worry about metahalting
01:10:16 <zzo38> What would be the powerfulness of proofs in such a system (where the halting oracle is still part of the system, and programs that halt are theorems)?
01:10:23 <zzo38> FreeFull: What is metahalting?
01:11:24 <Taneb> What ever happened to itidus20
01:11:43 <Bike> couldn't escape the matrix of [reference] [sarcastic sad emoticon]
01:12:43 <FreeFull> zzo38: It can figure out if any Turing machine will halt, but can't determine if it will halt itself
01:13:28 <pikhq> zzo38: Basically, for any superset-of-Turing system, the union of that + the halting oracle for it cannot determine if it *itself* halts.
01:13:48 <pikhq> So, Turing machine with a halting oracle has its own halting problem.
01:14:26 <Bike> you'll get, what's it called, post degrees
01:14:50 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, although it might be paradox if it can, isn't it?
01:15:30 <pikhq> The proof that you can't determine if a Turing machine halts with a Turing machine is trivially generalizable to any super-Turing machine.
01:16:39 <zzo38> You can still determine if such a thing halts with a higher oracle, though, I think
01:16:46 <HackEgo> 897) <shachaf> Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING <shachaf> Bike: You should use lens! <Taneb> NEVER <Bike> shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here
01:17:00 <Taneb> shachaf, you will be glad that today I told someone not to use lens.
01:17:08 <pikhq> It's just that each individual such system would need an oracle to determine if it halts.
01:20:01 <shachaf> Taneb: when will i be glad about that?
01:20:11 <shachaf> wait, not glad about that. just glad that.
01:21:19 <Taneb> Because I did not try to get lens into his Hakyll site!
01:21:30 <zzo38> But it can be nested such as Halt (Oracle (While (Oracle x) Continue (Halt Zero))) meaning if it is true when halting then that makes it true when not halting, something like that anyways
01:22:02 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uote: not found
01:22:06 <HackEgo> 1059) <Taneb> I would like to learn how to use a sword <Taneb> And also how to ride a unicycle <Taneb> Perhaps not at the same time
01:22:13 <Taneb> I have not learnt either
01:22:25 <zzo38> Can it be extended to allow an arbitrary amount if a program is reading in from the input
01:22:33 <Taneb> Although I did go to an Iaido taster session!
01:24:13 <Taneb> FreeFull, I actually have one
01:25:01 <Bike> learn you a unicycle for great good
01:26:48 <Taneb> `addquote <Bike> learn you a unicycle for great good
01:26:49 <HackEgo> 1189) <Bike> learn you a unicycle for great good
01:28:09 <Bike> important question: is there a program that, given a number, gives you a bunch of pointless facts about it, a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/593_%28number%29
01:31:32 <oerjan> the proof is a simple exercise in writing a wikipedia scraper hth
01:31:42 <Bike> perhaps i need a rephrase: can you point me to a etc
01:32:37 <Bike> hm, i know a few programs to come up with an algebraic definition, i think
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02:34:14 <zzo38> In which MUD is it possible to use a zoog teeth you have stolen to learn to be dentist and make a false teeth in case other zoog don't have any more teeth?
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03:07:53 <kmc> fungot: if I knew now what I knew then…
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03:35:09 <kmc> fungot: why the long lag
03:41:09 <shachaf> https://plus.google.com/+DanPiponi/posts/djyKdnSGRch dpiponi.kmc.moed++
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03:54:01 <oerjan> fungot: are you stonewalling kmc
03:54:02 <fungot> oerjan: don't i know you from somewhere? but, i mean, t-rex?
03:57:37 <kmc> fungot: who will fungot the fungots?
03:57:37 <fungot> kmc: hey, t-rex, i've a long road ahead of me, it would be flattering. i like to look at them! i expect nothing less than...
03:58:04 <oerjan> fungot: nothing less than what?
03:58:05 <fungot> oerjan: have i, perhaps, a hint, utahraptor. i'm a cyborg, then when i enter it, my body is the other half. we join, marrying the machine and flesh, working together to ensure my own creation. i'm responsible for getting my own food and for making a bomb threat, delaying its maiden voyage!
03:58:31 <oerjan> those are important responsibilities.
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04:02:19 <kmc> read "low-friction beard"
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04:02:59 <oerjan> (the bread almost slid off my plate when i grabbed it)
04:03:32 <oerjan> i hope the onion hasn't started spamming
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05:25:27 <fizzie> fungot: Stop making bomb threats, they'll trace you back to my place.
05:25:27 <fungot> fizzie: oh, that may be a fact; it is impossible to know if my dream, everything had turned into plasticine! do that and now your sweetie, turn to panel 5. forget it! it's wasted time.
05:27:35 <oerjan> and then fizzie will be toast while fungot gets away on an insanity plea
05:27:35 <fungot> oerjan: but in a metaphorical sense. what metaphor would that be, exactly?
05:27:56 <Taneb> I am going to sleep now goodnight
05:28:14 <oerjan> fungot: something cell-based.
05:28:15 <fungot> oerjan: as a man concerned, t-rex, that going shopping was your default activity? how is that weird, is it? you're just adding the same. but it's just so impossible, so doomed. he's got a stupid face, so at his own request that you give a raccoon a sugar cube, it'll wash it, i have!
05:28:17 <Taneb> Wait that isn't I away
05:28:40 <oerjan> Taneb is too tired to leave the channel
05:28:47 <fizzie> fungot: Stop calling my face stupid, too.
05:28:47 <fungot> fizzie: i don't have a very good student!
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05:32:36 <zzo38> Was "quit while you are ahead" invented by a gambler?
06:07:46 <zzo38> [P1] Clean your room! [C1] Therefore, clean your room or burn the house down! The error is that, "therefore, you have to either clean your room or burn the house down" is wrong, but, you can write instead, "either you have to clean your room or you have to burn the house down"
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08:38:47 <kmc> gotta get paid
08:40:43 <fizzie> Huh, esolangs.org went down too, and the silly thing doesn't answer to SSH either.
08:41:14 <Jafet> Does fungot have coins
08:41:14 <fungot> Jafet: it's a very tricky to sound natural, then you can't sleep at all, then you go demented and then you die, we're giving dinosaur comics to the marmaduke guy. sincerely, the man, you just wait! kids will be boarding the train to scarytowne at my own pace, dromiceiomimus
08:42:02 <Jafet> Is fungot less volatile than btc
08:42:02 <fungot> Jafet: i think that you're being too strict about this, t-rex! geez!! i'm leaving. escape to panel 5. forget it! it's wasted time. prepare to lose your job for gibbering madness all the time!
08:42:20 <fizzie> You can pay your fungot usage with funcoins.
08:42:20 <fungot> fizzie: are you in this house, god? i am a different, but i assure you
08:42:49 <Jafet> I think fungot just fired me
08:42:49 <fungot> Jafet: oh, i must have put that in your pipe and smoke it? friday? is it friday? or is it..."
08:44:01 <fizzie> --- www2.codu.org ping statistics ---
08:44:02 <fizzie> 42 packets transmitted, 11 received, 73% packet loss, time 42027ms
08:45:03 <lexande> fungot: did you say something about a train?
08:45:03 <fungot> lexande: think of how far did you go" talk a lot, but they're always a good thing! stupid problems, but if they're sentient, and you shouldn't think about religion that hard
08:46:09 <Jafet> I don't think religion is ready for sentient trains
08:46:13 <lexande> pretty much as far as i could, on a train, but i never reached scarytowne
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11:28:17 <Taneb> @ask How awkward it be to make lambdabot not respond to > in #cs-york? That's the only real controversy about the bot in the channel
11:28:33 <Taneb> @ask int-e How awkward it be to make lambdabot not respond to > in #cs-york? That's the only real controversy about the bot in the channel
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11:30:04 <How> @messages-loud
11:30:04 <lambdabot> Taneb asked 1m 46s ago: awkward it be to make lambdabot not respond to > in #cs-york? That's the only real controversy about the bot in the channel
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11:30:35 <fizzie> Doing our part to keep things tidy.
11:33:37 <Jafet> @ask d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e hi
11:34:40 <fizzie> That's too long to even change nick to. :(
11:41:47 <ais523> huh, Knuth did a few bugfixes to TeX again; apparently he said in 2008 that he would next look at TeX starting on 31 December 2013, and kept to his word
11:42:24 <slereah> Maybe he thought that the world would end in 2012
11:42:45 <ais523> no, he follows a geometric series for bugfixing TeX
11:42:56 <ais523> each review of bugs takes one more year than the last
11:43:03 <ais523> he fixed exactly one bug this time
11:43:57 <ais523> both of which are incredibly minor (a missing space in a corner case that probably never comes up in practice, and a memory leak that leaks 7 words of memory)
11:44:47 <ais523> also apparently the computer he tested the memory leak on has "3 million words" of memory, which for any sensible word size, puts it in the low tens of megabytes or perhaps even lower
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11:46:28 <ais523> <Knuth> These files contain almost exactly 7 megabytes altogether; and the new changes have altered about 3500 of those bytes.
11:46:31 <b_jonas> ais523: not geometric. I think it's quadratic only.
11:46:49 <ais523> sorry, not really thinking today
11:47:48 <Jafet> If it's truly a series, Knuth will be around to fix TeX bugs forever
11:48:00 <Jafet> I don't know whether that is supposed to be a comforting thought
11:48:26 <fizzie> Does this mean the version number gained a digit?
11:48:52 <b_jonas> Jafet: he has a specific statement: "My last will and testament for TeX and METAFONT is that their version numbers ultimately become $\pi$ and $e$, respectively. At that point they will be completely error-free by definition."
11:49:41 <ais523> also, apparently the only regret Knuth has about TeX's original design is that the default rule thickness is 0.399993896484375 points rather than 0.4 points
11:49:49 <ais523> due to the use of binary rather than decimal fractions
11:50:11 <b_jonas> no way, where does he say that?
11:50:45 <ais523> near the end of the document
11:50:52 <Jafet> > 1 - toRational (0.4 :: Float) / (4 % 10) :: CReal
11:50:53 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘GHC.Real.Ratio GHC.Integer.Type.Integer’
11:50:53 <lambdabot> Expected type: Data.Number.CReal.CReal
11:50:53 <lambdabot> Actual type: GHC.Real.RationalCouldn't match expected type ‘Data.Number.CR...
11:50:53 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘GHC.Real.Ratio a0’
11:51:03 <Jafet> > fromRational $ 1 - toRational (0.4 :: Float) / (4 % 10) :: CReal
11:51:37 <fizzie> > toRational 0.399993896484375
11:52:03 <ais523> b_jonas: his report on the bugfixes
11:52:10 <ais523> http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb35-1/tb109knut.pdf
11:53:22 <b_jonas> ais523: 2014? but http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/abcde.html says the TeX updates "happened most recently in 1992, 1993, 1995, 1998, 2002, 2007, and 2013; following this pattern, I intend to check on purported bugs again in the years 2020, 2028, 2037, etc."
11:53:40 <ais523> b_jonas: 31 December 2013 is when he started working on it
11:53:44 <ais523> he didn't get it finished in a day
11:56:27 <ais523> <Knuth, on 14 Mar 1978> (Some day we will have personal computers and will live more normally.)
11:58:58 <ais523> the "abnormal living" was sleeping at odd times of day in order to use the timeshare system when it was less loaded
11:59:19 <ais523> I live nowadays, and have a personal computer, but still sleep at odd times of day
11:59:49 <Jafet> Ah. I thought they had multiuser terminals already in 1978.
12:00:08 <ais523> I think probably they did, but everything was running on one central server
12:00:31 <fizzie> ais523: In the document, he also mentions "my home computer (a 3.6 GHz Xeon with 10 MB cache)" in the part where the build time of the TeXbook is discussed.
12:00:46 <fizzie> ais523: I'm not sure how this works with the three million words of memory.
12:00:58 <ais523> it might have been running on a VM or something?
12:01:15 <Jafet> Maybe his code runs completely in cache.
12:01:22 <fizzie> Possibly. And of course "home computer" and "home system" might refer to different things.
12:01:27 <Jafet> I would not be that surprised
12:02:00 <ais523> also, I was vaguely surprised that TeX gets an extra digit on the version number, rather than increasing the last digit by 1 or adding another digit if that would exceed pi
12:02:17 <ais523> like, I was expecting 3.1, 3.11, 3.12, 3.13, 3.14, 3.141, 3.1411, 3.1412, etc.
12:02:21 <ais523> that also converges to pi, just more slowly
12:02:39 <Jafet> "the systems [TeX and Metafont] have been converging to an error-free state."
12:03:16 <fizzie> And if you get right down to it, "it did take quite awhile to overflow 3 million words of memory on my home system" doesn't necessarily imply the system has only 3 million words, just that three million words is some limit that can be overflowed.
12:03:55 <ais523> actually, the other thing that surprised me is that there's a logic bomb in the manual to prevent people compiling it
12:04:25 <ais523> I guess because it's TeX not LaTeX, that makes sense
12:04:45 <ais523> (in LaTeX, some people might find it easier to read in a different document class, so allowing them to recompile rather than using a precompiled version would be reasonable)
12:06:41 <Jafet> Maybe they don't want people to compile it.
12:06:47 <Jafet> "The source file texbook.tex for The TeXbook begins with the following lines: [...] % The file is distributed only for people to see its examples of TeX input, not for use in the preparation of books like The TeXbook."
12:07:20 <ais523> he didn't want people to make other books based on the formatting in that book
12:07:38 <ais523> that's different from compiling the book itself from source, though
12:08:14 <Melvar> I would like to note that the English Wikipedia has articles named “Pi” and “e (mathematical constant)”, while the corresponding German ones are named “Kreiszahl” and “Eulersche Zahl”.
12:08:26 <Jafet> Well, it is also a book you can buy from Addison-Wesley.
12:09:12 <Jafet> Kreiszahl sounds like an article about number rings
12:09:35 <fizzie> "Pii (vakio)", "Neperin luku".
12:10:00 <Melvar> Jafet: It is, however, about the Circle-Number.
12:11:03 <fizzie> I like how Finnish name for e is "Neperin luku" lit. "Neper's number", named after John Napier except with the last name misspelled.
12:11:27 <ais523> and the first name absent?
12:11:54 <fizzie> But that's not Finnish-specific; "Napier's constant" seems to be an English name.
12:13:15 <fizzie> (Also arbitrary: it's apparently either "Euler's number" or "Napier's constant", but not "Napier's number" like in Finnish.)
12:14:09 <Melvar> Jafet: “number ring” redirects to “Ring of integers” which corresponds to “Ganzheitsring”.
12:15:36 <fizzie> "John Napier of Merchiston (/ˈneɪpɪər/; 1550 – 4 April 1617) – also signed as Neper, Nepair – named Marvellous Merchiston, was a Scottish landowner known as a mathematician, physicist, and astronomer." Guess it's not *wrong* per se, just an alternative spelling.
12:16:05 <Jafet> https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Αριθμός_π uses latin letters for all terms except π (and an english-labelled diagram).
12:19:41 <Jafet> Ganzheitsring sounds like an article about middle-earth
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13:09:15 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
13:09:25 <Taneb> fungot, there's a big debate happening tonight!"
13:09:26 <fungot> Taneb: madam president, on a point of order and by way of preparation in the committee on industry, external trade, research and energy is an extensive and complicated directive which will affect every single citizen, thereby violating the principle of equal treatment which puts the present commission, because the commission adopted a communication entitled: ' eeurope 2005: an information society is characterized by telecommuni
13:21:06 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think about the EU sanctions on Russia?
13:21:07 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, i believe that we must accept and address. one criticism that has been conducted. issues like this serve to underpin the peace process.
13:21:42 <fizzie> Typical politician, always ready with a seemingly coherent reply that still doesn't really say anything.
13:22:09 <Jafet> Hmm, what exactly are the sanctions not sanctioning?
13:24:18 <fizzie> They include at least some asset freezes. Could you summarize them for us, mr fungot?
13:24:18 <fungot> fizzie: mr poettering, the law. it is very important because it will determine our final vote.
13:25:25 <Jafet> I agree mr fungot, it's a good idea to sanction the law
13:25:26 <fungot> Jafet: i listened yesterday to mr schulz, mr poettering, chairman of the committee on foreign affairs, human rights, and the unions too, are sorry that we have begun to change little by little. mr kaklamanis, you ask yourself, can they contemplate the future with confidence.
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13:28:33 <fizzie> Today I learned (from a different channel) that strace gets it wrong if a 64-bit-code thread on Linux/x86-64 accesses the 32-bit syscall emulation layer via int 0x80.
13:28:36 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/TdRe
13:30:19 <fizzie> It's a (nonimportant) write through the "syscall" interface (syscall number 1 in that table) followed by an exit(42) through the int 0x80 interface (syscall number 1 in *that* table), and strace thinks the latter is a write, too. (And looks for arguments where they would be for the "syscall" stuff.)
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14:01:51 <int-e> Taneb: at the momemnt the prefixes are global and there is no infrastructure for per channel settings at all.
14:03:58 <slereah> ahah, in some neural network book
14:04:07 <slereah> "Now forget everything about training sets and learning"
14:04:17 <slereah> I don't know what I'm doing
14:09:14 <Jafet> Now learn it again in a different order while reading the text upside down
14:13:22 <Jafet> "Each month, the European Parliament moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France."
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14:29:58 <Jafet> Apparently, people are using the Enron emails as a corpus http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~enron
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14:45:29 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
14:45:38 <fowl> ^style lovecraft
14:45:39 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
14:45:44 <fungot> fowl: then they had sealed the entrances and left them without courage, words, or know why you shouldn't. maybe you ought to hear, though, had gilman been there; and when told of the frantic magician. his fright, turning to leave his post at the rope, as the gold of the sky ever since there was any village to watch his taciturn dwelling from the plain to the north in grotesque panic.
14:48:32 <fungot> Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset)
14:48:52 <Jafet> It's time for a bit of professionalism around here, fungot.
14:48:53 <fungot> Jafet: questions about the market let alone an inter-company transfer the money." guarantee of the corporate parent of the work of the thought of the last few years that
14:56:05 * int-e wonders what fungot's point is.
14:56:06 <fungot> int-e: in a. thus the next to the above the offer of a the best. sent: tuesday, may 1, you will not have the right to do." california is facing the process that will, and get you to resign.
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16:25:33 <Melvar> I have added to idris-ircslave obedience to configuration (per-channel) of line limit. What should the limit be in this channel?
16:26:29 <fungot> int-e: have not moved. on the financial officer of the financial, trade and market renewable in 2001 that will complete. jones;wes colwell;mark haedicke;vince kaminski;phillip allen;tim belden;chris calger;joe deffner;tim detmering;dave duran;joe kishkell;rob milnthorp;brian redmond;gary hickerson;george mcclellan;sally beck;brian stanley;keith dodson; cc, 8, and main lines " a" and " that advance post of our the eel ( primaril
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16:28:05 <int-e> no, fungot, 2001 is too much for IRC
16:28:05 <fungot> int-e: the our files that we
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16:41:34 <mroman> Given some array I want to know if it's x^n
16:45:47 <mroman> no wonder this is not working
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16:49:38 <lambdabot> [0,1,8,27,64,125,216,343,512,729,1000,1331,1728,2197,2744,3375,4096,4913,583...
16:49:41 <Jafet> > zipWith (-) <*> tail $ map (^3) [0..]
16:49:42 <lambdabot> [-1,-7,-19,-37,-61,-91,-127,-169,-217,-271,-331,-397,-469,-547,-631,-721,-81...
16:49:51 <Jafet> > zipWith subtract <*> tail $ map (^3) [0..]
16:49:52 <lambdabot> [1,7,19,37,61,91,127,169,217,271,331,397,469,547,631,721,817,919,1027,1141,1...
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16:50:00 <Jafet> > zipWith subtract <*> tail $ zipWith subtract <*> tail $ map (^3) [0..]
16:50:01 <lambdabot> [6,12,18,24,30,36,42,48,54,60,66,72,78,84,90,96,102,108,114,120,126,132,138,...
16:50:06 <Jafet> > zipWith subtract <*> tail $ zipWith subtract <*> tail $ zipWith subtract <*> tail $ map (^3) [0..]
16:50:07 <lambdabot> [6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6...
16:50:28 <mroman> You can derive until it only contains zeros
16:50:36 <mroman> that's essentially what I'm doing
16:50:52 <mroman> A derive, make some checks, derive again, make the checks, derive again, make the checks
16:51:43 <mroman> And currently it checks for a.) all zeroes, b.) x^n, c.) n^x, d.) n*x
16:52:00 <lambdabot> The cubes: a(n) = n^3.[0,1,8,27,64,125,216,343,512,729,1000,1331,1728,2197,2...
16:55:13 <lambdabot> Numerator of Bernoulli number B_n.[1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,5,0,691,0,7,0,3617,0,...
16:55:31 <mroman> I'm abusing this stuff to judge how random some numbers are
16:56:15 <mroman> (9,1,7,7,0,3,1,5 has random level 5, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean)
16:57:49 <lambdabot> ‘scanl’ (imported from Data.List),
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16:58:07 <myname> what the hell @ bernoulli number to that input
16:58:11 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,6,24,120,720,5040,40320,362880,3628800,39916800,479001600,6227020800,...
16:58:14 <Jafet> > [ 321^n `rem` 10^6 `div` 10^5 | n <- [0..] ]
16:58:15 <lambdabot> [0,0,1,0,4,7,4,8,2,1,7,5,3,4,0,1,1,5,5,0,9,3,5,6,2,1,0,3,6,6,6,3,8,6,1,4,2,1...
16:58:44 <oerjan> int-e: just thought you should know about http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23337798/cant-build-lambdabot-with-ghc-7-8-haskell-src-exts
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16:59:42 <Jafet> scanl doesn't need to be strict.
17:00:11 <FreeFull> I have found a need for a strict scanl before
17:00:20 <FreeFull> I don't remember what for anymore
17:01:25 <Jafet> > show =<< [ 321^(n+100) `rem` 10^6 `div` 10^5 | n <- [0..] ]
17:01:27 <mroman> Faculty has a random factor of 0.8
17:01:27 <lambdabot> "530514009063721311532538764312390304954886869678617557428179164663146490244...
17:02:30 <FreeFull> > let generate08 = 0.8 in generate08
17:03:26 <int-e> call it factorial, or you'll confuse the native speakers :)
17:04:05 <FreeFull> How did I read factor as generator?
17:04:32 <mroman> Math.sqrt(n+1) is also pretty random apparentely
17:05:03 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: b ~ a0 -> b
17:05:51 <int-e> @tell oerjan must be a windows thingy; I've had no trouble with haskell-src-exts 1.15.0.1 under linux.
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17:12:29 <Jafet> sqrt is not random at all. (You could take the digits of one particular square root, which have a good chance of being iid)
17:24:11 <mroman> I know that it's not random
17:24:15 <mroman> But my algorithm doesn't ;)
17:25:17 <mroman> but not Math.sqrt(n+1)
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17:38:08 <elliott> Barby1: please stop coming to this channel.
17:38:20 <elliott> Barby1: por favor deje de visitar este canal.
17:39:00 <elliott> does anyone know spanish better than google here.
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17:39:52 <Taneb> elliott, does Barby1 have a history?
17:40:05 <elliott> Taneb: *!~canaima@* has a history
17:40:18 <elliott> a history of joining and only speaking spanish for a few minutes before leaving
17:40:34 <elliott> like, 90% of the time the spanish welcome has been used, it's to them
17:40:38 <elliott> they just change nicks all the time
17:40:53 <elliott> maybe I should just set a ban? but they haven't done anything /wrong/, I guess, it's just... a waste of time for both parties
17:41:10 <Taneb> I am not very good at nethack
17:41:19 <Taneb> That was a bit of a non-sequitur, I know
17:41:27 <Taneb> But I was going to say it before I spotted Barby1
17:42:40 <Taneb> Does ftl cost money
17:44:02 <Taneb> I am afraid I do not have money right now
17:50:13 <mroman> Any ideas how I can detect stuff like sqrt(n+1)?
17:50:24 <mroman> sqrt(n+x) in generall.
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18:08:00 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zpyba/100_secure_paper_wallet_cold_storage_tutorial_out/
18:08:28 <Phantom_Hoover> "Use the linux command "echo -n my_dice_rolls | sha256sum" to generate a private key" your private key will be in your command history, for easy access!!
18:13:27 <Bike> "Note: All source code produced by this campaign will always be publicly available under open source license. However building a WormSim from source is a complex operation that requires advanced engineering skills." advanced engineering skills to make
18:15:10 <Bike> a c elegans simulation.
18:17:19 <Bike> c elegans. a roundworm. nematode.
18:17:36 <Jafet> Advanced software engineering skills
18:18:47 <fizzie> Advanced social engineering skills to worm (npi) the building instructions out of someone.
18:19:27 <Bike> they provide "Eclipse Juno distributions for the main OSs"
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18:42:45 <Taneb> In this roguelike I am helping with, the strongest starting armour is a hawai'in t-shirt
18:42:49 <Taneb> Followed by a law suit
18:43:07 <Sgeo> If I want to use rsync to transfer files between computers, is there an obvious choice for which is server and which is client?
18:43:26 <Sgeo> I'm just wondering if it's primarily a download thing or does two-way sync
18:44:22 <b_jonas> there's no obvious choice, but sometimes stuff could restrict you if you don't bother to set up an ssh or rsync server on both sides
18:45:01 <b_jonas> heck, I even use rsync for a few local copies
18:46:59 <Sgeo> How sick should one be before considering taking a sick day?
18:47:09 <Sgeo> I took a sick day today, and do feel sick, but not -very- sick
18:47:33 <b_jonas> Sgeo: depends on how many sick days you have
18:48:13 <mroman> Sgeo: If you can walk you're not sick enough
18:48:21 <b_jonas> think of how many you will want to keep for the rest of the year
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18:49:32 <Sgeo> I think it accumulates during the year, and the site that shows me how much time I have doesn't show how much will accumulate
18:50:08 <b_jonas> Sgeo: definitely get to learn early and often about how many days of leave you have
18:50:41 <b_jonas> if your calculation differs from that of your workplace by more than half a day, then talk to them about who doesn't understand the rules or who has made a mistake
18:51:07 <b_jonas> do that early even if you have enough days of paid leave for now, so that later it can't cause a problem
18:51:11 <Sgeo> I know I have 3 personal days a year that don't accumulate, and have been told by a coworker and my dad to generally use that first
18:51:41 <Sgeo> But I think that's separate from sick time, I don't think using personal days for sick time makes sense, maybe for vacation time
18:51:57 <b_jonas> the rules differ by country and occupation a lot of course, and depend on stuff
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20:10:21 <Taneb> Aaaaah what can a CS society spend money on
20:11:48 <fizzie> A set of 3D-printed miniature figurines of famous computer science researchers.
20:12:13 <Slereah_> A quantum computer to play quantum DOOM
20:13:13 <kmc> a large collection of synthetic hallucinogens
20:15:51 <Slereah_> The world's most expensive dildo
20:16:36 <Slereah_> A cat skeleton soaked in kerosene
20:17:58 <Slereah_> The corpse of John the Baptist
20:18:34 <fungot> fizzie: please let me know the best is yet.?
20:19:02 <fizzie> fungot: Well, it's hard to say which one of those was best. Maybe you could suggest something clearly better than any so far.
20:19:02 <fungot> fizzie: we don't i mail this other project, i thus expect the following and let
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20:21:11 <nooodl> i wonder which of the things Slereah_ mentioned are purchasable, and then, which is most expensive
20:21:17 <nooodl> i guess you can buy all the tea in china?? "it's hard"
20:21:32 <Slereah_> A castle in spain is probably the most realistic and expensive
20:22:02 <Slereah_> unless you buy really a lot of candy
20:24:19 <elliott> nooodl: the world's most expensive dildo is pretty buyable, presumably
20:25:36 <Slereah_> Goats are not very expensive though
20:25:59 <Slereah_> Also I assume that the world's most expensive dildo is in a private collection
20:26:46 <Taneb> In other news, we have a program which compiles fine on Ubuntu but very not fine on Arch
20:27:07 <nortti> how does one compile not fine?
20:29:28 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> nooodl: the world's most expensive dildo is pretty buyable, presumably
20:29:40 <Phantom_Hoover> it's probably made out of solid gold or something though
20:29:53 <Taneb> nortti, NCurses fails
20:30:09 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, not particularly relevant either
20:30:12 <nortti> Taneb: compile or link?
20:30:14 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Or perhaps it's just valuable because of its illustrious history.
20:30:15 <Slereah_> Phantom_Hoover : what about the sky
20:30:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: cheaper than all the tea in china
20:30:51 <Taneb> nortti, runtime, in the clang memory sanitizer apparently
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20:31:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Slereah_, well that's governed by national airspace treaties
20:31:28 <barrucadu> We're trying to debug a memory error, and so used clang's memory sanitizer, but that throws out errors on Arch but not on Ubuntu - in libncursesw
20:32:02 <barrucadu> This is the error: http://pastebin.com/SBCPRqqU
20:32:22 <barrucadu> Line 29 of main.c is this: https://github.com/HackSoc/LudumDare29/blob/master/main.c#L29
20:33:17 <barrucadu> Don't worry, we have (fallen) angels elsewhere in the code, they'll take care of any curses
20:33:31 <fizzie> See, the problem is that "binary packages encourage inconsistency and incompatibility, whearas source encourages unified development frameworks and integration."
20:33:47 <fizzie> (I just felt like quoting funroll-loops.info.)
20:34:48 <lambdabot> shachaf says: You can't spell "-funsafe" without "fun" and "safe".
20:35:49 <fizzie> That joke works p. well for the GCC option -funsafe-math-optimizations.
20:36:16 <fizzie> Also you can't spell -malign-double without maligning some perfectly respectable doubles.
20:36:56 <Slereah_> I keep a little script on my werk computer
20:37:17 <Slereah_> I called it MAXIMUM OVERWARNING
20:37:29 <Slereah_> That way I have things to do in case I don't know what to do
20:37:42 <fizzie> Clang has a single flag for that, fortunately.
20:37:49 <fizzie> (It's called -Weverything.)
20:38:19 <Slereah_> Strangely enough -Wall doesn't do that
20:38:43 <Taneb> -Wall-no-really-when-I-say-all-I-mean-all
20:38:59 <Slereah_> For some reason gcc doesn't seem to like string literals?
20:39:01 <FreeFull> I don't think lambdabot has the primes package
20:39:02 <fizzie> -Wall doesn't, but -Weverything does.
20:39:11 <Slereah_> They're pretty easy to compile, no?
20:39:19 <FreeFull> @let import Data.Numbers.Primes
20:39:20 <lambdabot> Failed to load interface for ‘Data.Numbers.Primes’
20:39:20 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant Data.Number.Fixed (from numbers-3000.2.0.1)
20:39:20 <lambdabot> Use -v to see a list of the files searched for.
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20:39:53 <elliott> it did when I had it, I think
20:40:01 <fizzie> shachaf: Also you can't spell -funsafe without "NSA" it is a conspiracy
20:40:28 <Slereah_> And you can't spell -funsafe without enuf
20:40:46 <Taneb> So any ideas re: memory error?
20:41:38 <fizzie> Taneb: Install the package that comes with debugging info for the ncursesw lib, so that you get something more edifying than just offsets in hex. Then fix what's probably a ncurses bug.
20:42:57 <fizzie> If it's really the same (ncurses) code on both, and only trips a "use-of-uninitialized-value" on one, it could be different environment variables or terminfo databases or <any other environmental thing>. Though you never know about "same version" either.
20:43:20 <fizzie> I wonder if there are people who always compile with -ffinite-math-only out of some sort of philosophical principles.
20:43:58 <fizzie> You know, people who don't believe in infinities.
20:44:00 <Slereah_> I am currently doing some log things so I really need my infinities
20:48:45 <fizzie> Taneb: FWIW, I get the same -fsanitize=memory error for libncursesw on my system, for a program that does only a initscr();.
20:50:10 <lexande> Phantom_Hoover, Slereah_: a friend who is an expert on such matters is aware of a $3500 gold-plated dildo and a $15k gold-plated vibrator, which may be the most expensive mass-produced examples, though yes presumably there are much more expensive ones sold as artwork at auction
20:50:37 <barrucadu> Also, turns out the reason the error isn't coming up on Ubuntu is becasue the version of clang on the uni computers is too old to support the memory sanitizer
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20:59:14 <Taneb> ...we are now debugging ncurses
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21:18:56 <fizzie> FWIW, my error comes with the call stack initscr -> newterm -> _nc_setupterm -> _nc_setup_tinfo -> _nc_read_entry -> _nc_first_db, and it's a strlen on the string "/home/fis/.terminfo" (values[dbdHome]) that seems just fine in gdb; not sure why the memory-sanitizer warns about uninitialized stuff in it.
21:19:01 <fizzie> But perhaps your error is different.
21:19:41 <Taneb> Our code now appears to work
21:20:07 <fizzie> (If I read the messages right, it doesn't like the null terminator at the end.)
21:21:17 <fizzie> Well, the (ncurses) code does look incorrect, so maybe that's just fair.
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21:28:01 <fizzie> Or, hm. I don't know. It looks okay on further inspection. Very kludgy, though. But the string's still the result of a regular snprintf, that should be suitably null-terminated. And actually the offset it's complaining about is one past the '\0', and it's not like the strlen should be looking there.
21:28:34 <fizzie> Unless it's some sort of "GCC knows the size of the buffer so it can use an optimized four-bytes-at-a-time strlen" kind of deal.
21:29:12 <fizzie> That actually sounds quite reasonable. In which case the use of uninitialized data would be just a false positive from the MemorySanitizer.
21:29:22 <fizzie> I'm going to call it that since then I won't have to keep looking at it.
21:30:30 <Taneb> Our program works only when memory is being watched
21:30:44 <kmc> quantum computing
21:30:52 <fizzie> (Possibly even glibc can assume things about page borders etc. and use a multi-byte strlen.)
21:32:30 <kmc> fizzie: I've been playing with SSE 4.2 string instructions and I think a lot of the example code out there doesn't handle page boundaries correctly
21:32:36 <kmc> I talk about that at the end of https://github.com/kmcallister/html5/blob/sse/src/tokenizer/buffer_queue.rs#L182-L252
21:34:20 <HackEgo> [U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK]
21:34:51 <shachaf> kmc: should be called terrifying_microöptimizations hth
21:34:56 <kmc> shachaf: yeah
21:35:15 <shachaf> and it should use a combining character in half the places
21:35:21 <shachaf> i hear rust will handle that correctly
21:35:35 <kmc> i don't know if it normalizes --cfg arguments on the command line, though
21:36:33 <fizzie> kmc: I guess (I haven't looked if this is a thing that is done) one could just handle the *initial* not-16-byte-aligned part of a string specially, and then you can do movdqa and read in full 16-byte blocks and never worry about crossing a page boundary even if the read does go beyond the end of the string.
21:36:50 <kmc> imo it should also accept — instead of --
21:36:59 <kmc> fizzie: yeah
21:37:18 <kmc> otoh, that will often be slower
21:37:37 <kmc> i think it's an em
21:37:41 <kmc> but i'm using a fixed width font
21:37:47 <kmc> I guess that means an em and an en are the same!
21:37:48 <shachaf> the difference is still visible
21:37:53 <kmc> praise jesus
21:38:06 <HackEgo> sortcoin slash-01coin versedcoin univelacoin squeklycoin tclycoin brainftingcoin pooncoin loodbcoin purehancoin visiticoin 0x8coin excepiracoin returntzcoin owlcoin betticoin marcoin boskecoin mancecoin yellicoin
21:38:21 <kmc> if i'm gonna die for a word, my word is pooncoin
21:38:46 <shachaf> imo just map an extra page in at the end `j̀ust in casé´
21:38:56 <kmc> imo just handle SIGSEGV
21:40:49 <fizzie> kmc: glibc strlen seems to do more or less what I envisaged, except it also rounds *down* to do the unaligned part with a movdqa, cf. http://sprunge.us/hZDA
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21:41:29 <fizzie> (I'm also going to go ahead and assume that's why the ncurses code fails with -fsanitize=memory, since it sounds plausible.)
21:43:17 <fizzie> (Er, "do the unaligned part with pcmpeqb to memory", but anyway.)
21:43:20 <Taneb> Yes, it goes beyond the end of the string
21:43:29 <fizzie> (I didn't really read the operands.)
21:44:27 <fizzie> Taneb: Well, that's perfectly legal, under some assumptions.
21:47:13 <kmc> if the president does it, it's not illegal
21:47:21 <shachaf> actually it should be µoptimizations
21:47:31 <kmc> shachaf: is that greek letter mu or mathematimu?
21:48:25 <Taneb> We've found the actual error we were looking for :)
21:48:28 <shachaf> which i get by pressing altgr+m
21:49:00 <kmc> I do like it when code (usually kernel exploits) clears the WP bit in %cr0 so it can write to read-only pages
21:49:15 <kmc> much easier than walking the page tables
21:52:22 <boily> `` echo 'A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change.' >wisdom/mathematimu
21:59:01 <boily> fowl: you have been quoted. you exist in the PDF now.
21:59:33 <fizzie> (A fate worse than death.)
22:00:58 <fowl> eh its no worse than when i enlisted. now the govt has my fingerprints and dna on record :/
22:01:34 <kmc> which govt
22:01:39 <boily> which fingerprints?
22:06:45 <HackEgo> 1187) <fowl> one day we'll be able to put evil people inside mirrors and throw them into space like superman 2
22:06:56 <Taneb> `quote plastic spoon
22:06:57 <HackEgo> 400) <Taneb> Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon
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22:08:09 <lambdabot> int-e said 5h 2m 17s ago: must be a windows thingy; I've had no trouble with haskell-src-exts 1.15.0.1 under linux.
22:13:18 <oerjan> <Jafet> Is fungot less volatile than btc <-- what isn't?
22:13:18 <fungot> oerjan: i moved to sp) regarding any of the street. 1717 main street, suite that enables the customers.
22:13:31 <kmc> fungotcoin
22:13:31 <fungot> kmc: you will get out the points of the information on the new more efficient.
22:14:26 <oerjan> @ask Jafet <Jafet> Is fungot less volatile than btc <-- what isn't?
22:14:26 <fungot> oerjan: two years the big a book on the work of the business is mailing for individuals that dynegy to walk on the wharton. 1124.7) ( madison.
22:14:45 <boily> 1717 Berri is the address of Montréal's autocar terminus. fungot, what are you spying on from Montréal, eh?
22:14:46 <fungot> boily: new deal to keep the current and will find the time to get on the stack.
22:14:47 <oerjan> pesky @ask /whois race condition again
22:15:03 <boily> fungot: intelligence gathering, then.
22:15:03 <fungot> boily: could we schedule more to the issues on the new plants that not only survive, but not the one that the are two sections resulting in the lowest in three years that
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22:16:16 <oerjan> boily: i hypothesize that there's an agency hidden at _every_ 1717 address hth
22:17:17 <kmc> "autocar" means bus? confusing
22:17:23 <oerjan> or possibly a shared one, with clever portal doors
22:18:47 <Jafet> @ask oerjan Crimea hth
22:19:29 <boily> kmc: coach cars, I guess. intercity shuttle buses?
22:19:52 <boily> I like autocar myself. I find the word pleasing, like a zeppelin.
22:21:04 <Bike> automatic car dispenser
22:21:28 <fizzie> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Smart_vending_machine_in_Shenyang.jpg
22:27:00 <lambdabot> Jafet asked 8m 13s ago: Crimea hth
22:31:45 <kmc> fizzie: does it work?
22:33:06 <oerjan> @tell <ais523> each review of bugs takes one more year than the last <-- that's quadratic not geometric hth
22:33:56 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> each review of bugs takes one more year than the last <-- that's quadratic not geometric hth
22:41:56 <Taneb> oerjan, that was pointed out iirc
22:43:48 <oerjan> Taneb: another race condition :(
22:44:25 <oerjan> i need to switch to STM for my logreading.
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22:54:25 <FreeFull> You should have used STM in the first place
22:54:33 <FreeFull> It's too nice to skip in multithreaded software
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22:59:03 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env node \ // Generated by CoffeeScript 1.6.2 \ (function() { \ var consonant_then_o, ell_manglable, ends_with_consonant, ends_with_consonant_then_vowel, name, starts_with_o; \ \ name = process.argv[2]; \ \ if (!(name != null ? name.length : void 0)) { \ console.log('Usage: ello <name>'); \ process.exit(); \ } \ \
22:59:19 <kmc> javascript? in my HackEgo?
23:00:27 <boily> I think I'm now used to the classical “hoily.”
23:00:33 <Bike> `run cat $(which thanks)
23:00:34 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_.";
23:00:46 <oerjan> hm it's sensitive to final space, but only sometimes...
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23:07:34 <fizzie> kmc: I don't think so, in the sense that you could buy the car from it.
23:09:19 <lexande> you could have a vending machine that sold car keys
23:09:25 <lexande> with the cars conveniently parked nearby
23:10:37 <oerjan> <FreeFull> A strict scanl would be nice <-- it's not that important for scanl unless you skip over elements in the list
23:10:38 <kmc> imagine the frustration after you put $15,000 in bills into the machine and then the keys don't quite fall off the corkscrew hook thing
23:11:03 <oerjan> because being strict is equivalent to evaluating the result elements in order
23:11:37 <FreeFull> oerjan: I had something that needed strict scanl but I don't remember why
23:11:37 <fizzie> There is also the http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/tools-toys/vehicular-vending-machine which at least deals in cars.
23:11:44 <FreeFull> Something that would leak memory otherwise
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23:17:57 <kmc> fizzie: nice
23:18:02 <kmc> zipcar is also like a car vending machine, in a sense
23:19:17 <FreeFull> Use an ashtray as a lens, to magnify the car
23:23:03 <oerjan> <Taneb> Does ftl cost money <-- infinite money hth
23:24:11 <boily> what's the exchange rate in Canadian dollars?
23:27:06 <boily> dammit. my stupid bot won't connect to freenode.
23:27:27 <oerjan> you were also going to duck it out?
23:27:54 <boily> me? what would make you believe that?
23:28:07 * boily mapoles his cuttlefish of a bot
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23:28:31 <boily> ~duck 1 USD in CAD
23:28:38 <oerjan> also have you factored in that canada doesn't exist twh
23:29:00 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=%31%20%55%53%44%20%69%6e%20%43%41%44' \ Alert!: Unable to access document.
23:31:13 <boily> oh well. time to go drown my unexistant sorrows in some douteux stuff.
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23:33:18 <oerjan> @ask Slereah_ <Slereah_> The corpse of John the Baptist <-- child or adult?
23:53:44 <oerjan> @ask boily <boily> `` echo 'A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change.' >wisdom/mathematimu <-- WHY DID I EVEN BOTHER TO MAKE `learn UNDERSTAND ARTICLES
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23:55:09 <Taneb> `run echo 'An article is something that `learn can understand.' > wisdom/article
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