00:01:33 <boily> quintopia: QUINTOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÁ!
00:04:24 <fizzie> I keep looking at Twitter for latest cloudatcost news; this time there's: "@cloudatcost copying @digitalocean community articles for their knowledge base. Seriously, the CC BY NC SA license isn't that hard to follow"
00:04:55 <elliott> fizzie: don't you have a VPS or something? :p
00:05:46 <fizzie> Yes, one with 256M of RAM, and lighttpd for a web server. Though I guess it might be better than none.
00:06:07 <fizzie> I've actually been sort-of looking at DigitalOcean's $5/month "droplet".
00:06:11 <elliott> how much are you paying for it?
00:06:45 <elliott> yeah, DO would be way better than that.
00:07:01 <elliott> especially if you moved the wiki there :P
00:07:57 <fizzie> To be fair, Tilaa's current lowest-end config (5.55€/month + tax) is pretty close to DO's deal, except without the SSD thing.
00:08:27 <fizzie> And with "unlimited" (fsvo) traffic, vs. DO's 1 TB.
00:09:03 <elliott> that is, indeed, fair. (?)
00:09:06 <fizzie> But I'd lose my IPv6s!1
00:09:20 <fizzie> (DO only has native v6 in their Singapore location at the moment.)
00:09:54 <elliott> no, they have it in london too
00:10:22 <fizzie> Okay, yes, but the London is super-new, I last looked at these things like three days ago.
00:11:19 <fizzie> There's also the major thing that if I were hosting this, it'd be my problem when it doesn't work.
00:11:29 <elliott> it already is. I ping both of you.
00:11:45 <fizzie> I guess, but I can just ignore it and go to sleep.
00:11:53 <fizzie> (Which is what I'll be doing any moment now.)
00:12:47 <elliott> what? it's only 3 am there!
00:13:50 <fizzie> (Not in any sensible sense.)
00:18:50 <zzo38> FireFly: O, do you like my new card game too, "The Aberration Hater Card Game"?
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00:37:21 <boily> quintopia: yesterday I tasted an interesting beer. http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/dieu-du-ciel-lherbe-a-detourne/123975/
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00:39:35 <boily> it's one of those treacherous ones where you realize the full extent of your pint when you try to stand up.
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01:13:26 <metasepia> CYUL 160100Z 13004KT 15SM FEW030TCU FEW080 SCT150 BKN240 20/18 A2970 RMK TCU1AC1AC2CI3 SLP056 DENSITY ALT 900FT
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03:31:38 <zzo38> I saw some fairy chess problem, where due to the additional piece, it is not allowed to promote into a queen because doing so would put you in check, but promoting to other pieces is OK.
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05:38:04 <zzo38> The modes for The Aberration Hater Card Game might be: Versus (2-players, individal roles), Neutral (3-p, ind. roles), Bridge (4-p in teams, partners sit across, each team has a role), Washizu (4-p in teams, partners sit adjacent, ind. roles), Mirror (2-p, same roles), Cutthroat (3-p, same roles), and perhaps there can be others too, such as Solitaire.
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08:17:19 <b_jonas> "Abberation Hater"? what's that?
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09:13:00 <b_jonas> TieSoul_: could you eventually get the old whitespace interpreter to work?
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09:14:38 <fizzie> That's a reasonable thing to wonder about.
09:14:43 <oerjan> no, fingers, that's not backspace.
09:14:54 <fizzie> fungot: Do you ever wonder if anythin?
09:14:54 <fungot> fizzie: i fnord 1)...) where you can replace it with ' quick' or ' what would you use? :) ( i.e. zooming functions to the beginning
09:16:17 <oerjan> i wonder how much of -Xhaskell98 will still keep working in ghc in ghc 6.10
09:17:35 <oerjan> the applicative-monad merge will definitely break my old unlambda interpreter, if it hasn't already. although someone else is maintaining its descendant on hackage anyway.
09:21:19 <b_jonas> you mean Monad will become a subclass of Applicative so you will have to declare instances to Monad differently?
09:21:23 <oerjan> seems my Unlambda interpreter still works in 7.6.3 with the right flags
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09:21:53 <oerjan> b_jonas: yes. the interpreter contains a custom Monad instance, but naturally no Applicative one.
09:22:18 <b_jonas> oerjan: but don't they add some language magic so that the old declarations work?
09:22:20 <oerjan> (however those flags make :main break, although plain main works)
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09:22:54 <oerjan> b_jonas: no. they've simple made ghc 7.8 a transition period, with warnings for things that will break. but you still need to change code.
09:23:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: besides Monad, what else has changed?
09:23:42 <b_jonas> btw, is Applicative still a subclass of Functor?
09:24:28 <oerjan> so you need to declare that too
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09:25:40 <oerjan> basically they gave up on finding a backwards compatible way of rearranging class hierarchies. :(
09:26:11 <b_jonas> oerjan: there were some attempts, such as https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/IntrinsicSuperclasses
09:26:59 <b_jonas> maybe they'll still do something (even if not exactly that) till 6.10
09:28:05 <oerjan> extremely unlikely, it's too little time left.
09:28:32 <b_jonas> isn't breaking H89 compatibility also too big a change?
09:28:52 <b_jonas> is it at least possible to write code that works with both the old and new Monad?
09:29:02 <oerjan> sure. but they jumped the shark on that when they removed Eq as a Num superclass, i think.
09:29:43 <oerjan> sure, if you define Applicative and Functor simultaneously, it will work in both.
09:30:11 <fizzie> How does GHC versioning work, if something called "6.10" is later than "7.8"?
09:31:39 <fizzie> Oh, well, that's boringly normal. I was hoping for something wacky.
09:31:47 <b_jonas> sorry, I messed that up too
09:32:00 <oerjan> you're excused, you just copied me
09:32:23 <oerjan> HE WAS JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS
09:34:01 <oerjan> there was a reddit post the other day where someone was confused about why haskell's versioning (Package Versioning Policy or PVP) differs from Semantic Versioning
09:34:31 <oerjan> (technically you can combine those just fine, _except_ PVP has two numbers for major version)
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09:35:03 <b_jonas> so what's this aberration hater thing zzo has mentioned?
09:35:09 <fizzie> [latest @cloudatcost tweet] "Tip of the day - If you search for [city, state zip codes] in Google, you will be presented with all of the zip codes in that location. Ex : ny, new york zip codes" yes, fine, very clever, but how about fixing those servers instead of concentrating on that?
09:35:31 <oerjan> b_jonas: some game he made inspired by his D&D campaign, i think
09:36:31 <oerjan> (iirc he plays an illithid/mind flayer, which is an Aberration monster, and the campaign world has major discrimination against those)
09:37:36 <oerjan> (of course in standard D&D illithids are usually extremely Evil, but at least in his campaign not all are, including iiuc his character)
09:39:33 <oerjan> i mainly know this because the yafgc comic has a major (evil) illithid character. incidentally yafgc has been down for weeks.
09:40:14 <oerjan> well somewhat major. he seems to have done little in recent arcs.
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09:41:04 <b_jonas> so in this game illithids are like dark elves in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html , where "the whole species consists of nothing but Chaotic Good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin."
09:43:24 <oerjan> b_jonas: i don't know if it's that bad, you'll have to ask zzo38.
09:44:51 <oerjan> the dark elf thing is common enough that i've seen it in another place (the Goblins comic), it's a reference to players copying the literary character http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drizzt_Do'Urden
09:46:09 <oerjan> oots lampshades that even further later.
10:07:15 <b_jonas> oerjan: sure, like in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html
10:07:39 <b_jonas> unflattering images of halflings and of rogues
10:09:16 <b_jonas> and of course there's the color-coded dragons
10:09:20 <oerjan> i meant the drizzt thing specifically.
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12:07:02 <b_jonas> what's this "poco" library that some people mentioned?
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16:06:27 <Koen_> goodafternoon fellow esolangers
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17:02:02 <zzo38> "the whole species consists of nothing but Chaotic Good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin."
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17:02:17 <zzo38> What makes you think it is true? It is impossible.
17:03:24 <zzo38> It does not apply to any species in my game, because it doesn't make any sense.
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17:03:37 <zzo38> Any species has good, evil, and neutral people.
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17:07:51 <zzo38> With mostly (but not entirely) equal amounts, but people hate them anyways. Most of them have no place in the card game however, because it is a card game. It is still untrue in a card game too. But Aberration Hater certainly does not care whether or not it is true; that is not their job.
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17:08:23 <zzo38> quintopia: Perhaps it can be hilarious, but that doesn't make it sensible. Perhaps in some game/story world it can be true, but not in mine because it is not sensible to me.
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17:21:48 <zzo38> Tell oerjan; they are the one who made this mistake, it seems.
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17:29:31 <zzo38> Aberration Hater is an evil society, but its members just as well might not be! This sometimes causes confusion with people who are not thinking clearly.
17:29:35 <quintopia> zzo38: do you not see how it could be interpreted as sensible? do you see the hilarity?
17:29:56 <zzo38> quintopia: The latter.
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17:31:14 <quintopia> zzo38: it's hilarious because it describes the human species. WE are all (excepting sociopaths) chaotic good. there are no TRULY evil among us. (sociopaths are neutral)
17:31:38 <quintopia> and we are all out to right the wrongs of the other humans WE perceive as evil
17:32:08 <zzo38> I can see what you mean, but I do not think it is actually true nonetheless.
17:33:08 <quintopia> probably something you're not interested in
17:33:53 <zzo38> Of course I cannot know for sure, but that is not how I define such things.
17:33:57 <elliott> if you think everyone is chaotic good, have you seen ais523? he's way too boring for that
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17:36:36 <zzo38> When will they fix the esolang wiki?
17:37:22 <Phantom_Hoover> <quintopia> zzo38: it's hilarious because it describes the human species. WE are all (excepting sociopaths) chaotic good. there are no TRULY evil among us. (sociopaths are neutral)
17:37:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: moral relativism, duuuuuuuuude
17:39:55 <Phantom_Hoover> i always thought the joke was that it's true because all drow characters are drizzt knockoffs, you see
17:40:33 <zzo38> See? Now you have a difference in opinion.
17:47:55 <zzo38> And, this difference in opinion is what is the point.
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17:48:48 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: i didn't read the context so i don't know what "the joke" is. i'm just reporting why i find it a funny concept
17:49:50 <zzo38> quintopia: Ah. s/"the joke"/"this joke"/
17:52:19 <zzo38> No you tried to mean what you said, but you should have meant that you meant something.
17:53:10 <quintopia> the thing that i said matches what i meant better than your correction in my opinion
17:54:00 <quintopia> although perhaps better would have been "\"the\" joke"
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18:34:19 <Bike> this morning i argued that nobody really defined their political position as "chaos" because that would be too dumb. thanks for proving me rong
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19:34:55 <quintopia> i see no proof here of his particular claim
19:35:57 <Phantom_Hoover> like 'lawful good' only makes sense for deliberately obtuse cases like ais523
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19:36:47 <Bike> it's a way of justifying roleplaying as goblin murderers. nothing much else to read into it.
19:36:53 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: it's to do with whether I character has rules for themselves which they strictly obey. there are few people that have this property in reality, so it's more of a gimmick to make a character easier to play while keeping it unique and 'in character'
19:38:26 <zzo38> Well, there are things in between too, at various degrees.
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19:47:25 <zzo38> My ideas for working of "detect alignment" spells are different from the common way where it is simply assumed that a character has an alignment and that one is detected. Rather I am using a different way:
19:50:21 <zzo38> The following points will have an affect on the detection: * What the target is currently doing and acting. * The recent past of effects of what they are commonly doing. * Alignment descriptors of creatures, spells, and active (not passive) magical objects. * If the target is a cleric, their deity. * If the caster is a cleric, their deity. * If cast directly (not from a scroll), the caster's personal prejudices have a minor effect on it too.
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19:52:00 <zzo38> The first point above has also been made in a document saying that rule could be used in horror stories, however I have come up with that and all the other points independently, and for other reasons.
19:53:28 <zzo38> s/other reasons/different reasons/
19:53:59 <zzo38> Due to the points above, it is possible for multiple alignments to register at once, for example if a man casts a spell with a good descriptor for evil purposes, or if the devil does something good for a change.
19:55:20 <zzo38> quintopia: You can fall back if you are unable to resolve it properly.
19:58:05 <zzo38> Bike: I do think that descripting your political position using one or two words doesn't explain a lot; you should be more specific. Such words can only describe it in general, not in specifics, and specifics are important too.
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20:30:33 <Taneb> I am a sucker for maths books
20:31:33 <Taneb> Just acquired a friend's copy of Mathematical Methods for Physics and Engineering
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21:33:37 <newsham> "have you managed to unfuck my cluster?"
21:33:47 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> i always thought the joke was that it's true because all drow characters are drizzt knockoffs, you see <-- well that's the joke _i_ was referencing, anyway.
21:34:21 <oerjan> @tell Phantom_Hoover <Phantom_Hoover> i always thought the joke was that it's true because all drow characters are drizzt knockoffs, you see <-- well that's the joke _i_ was referencing, anyway.
21:35:59 <elliott> no it's about how we are all four ourselves in this world of grey areas [smoke's a weed]
21:36:49 <oerjan> i thought only the time cube guy was four himself
21:39:11 <elliott> don't make me smoke another weed
21:40:32 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: is this a bloom county reference
21:44:24 <oerjan> #9 here http://www.thecomicstrips.com/subject/The-Dandelion-Comic-Strips-by-Bloom+County.php
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21:47:29 * oerjan only checked the sunday strip ones, anyway
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21:55:56 <oerjan> "I'm gonna look for less morbid questions for a while." if you say so, randall.
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23:13:26 <oerjan> the foglios need to get some tips from dmm on how to keep a webcomic schedule.
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23:14:43 <oerjan> "If you are a member of Worldcon and want to vote for Girl Genius, ballots are due by August 1! If you want to vote for any of our admittedly excellent competitors, the deadline is August 2."
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23:20:49 <newsham> what if i wanted to vote for a white dood?
23:22:19 <oerjan> i thought the foglios were, like, white
23:22:31 <oerjan> otherwise they have some _amazing_ makeup
23:22:59 <oerjan> one of the foglios is male hth
23:24:10 <Phantom_Hoover> he's... maybe making reference to the 'girl genius' part?
23:24:26 <oerjan> ssh i'm pretending not to understand that
23:26:35 <lambdabot> EliezerYudkowsky says: Perfect software has an interface which is both telepathic and precognitive.
23:27:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: yeah but I was more wondering about the part where the joke made no sense and wasn't funny
23:31:10 <newsham> girl geniuses are awesome and all
23:33:33 <elliott> do you know what girl genius is
23:36:52 <oerjan> that was my first guess
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23:59:34 <boily> @tell oerjan byely?