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00:06:18 <zzo38> A variant of bridge can be if everyone passes, instead of redealing the cards, there is no dummy and no trumps and whoever takes the least number of tricks is the winner.
00:13:31 <boily> I haven't found people to play bridge with yet.
00:26:48 <quintopia> i can't play bridge with you but i could play portal 2 with you or borderlands 2 with you
00:28:09 <boily> incidemment, I just installed steam on my laptop, and I'm currently in the process of installing games.
00:28:37 <boily> I only have the first portal, but I should be having had will bought portal 2 some time soon in the near future.
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00:35:19 <boily> invite currently being seen...
01:19:29 <zzo38> I think what I should do is The Aberration Hater Card Game, all of card have the same set of subtypes, unlike in Magic: the Gathering where they use different set of subtypes although some card types use same one (such as Tribal with Creature). I don't like that so I can make this one to simplify the rules a bit.
01:20:01 <zzo38> Do you think it make more sense or not?
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01:51:58 <Sgeo> I made the mistake of reading about Perl
01:51:58 <Sgeo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5680147/perl-passing-2-or-more-arrays-to-a-subroutine
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03:00:04 <zzo38> I don't know how you pass arrays in Perl.
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04:25:09 <Sgeo> In Perl, the string "0" is falsey
04:34:54 <zzo38> I have the source-codes for Infocom's Z-machine interpreter on Commodore 64, as well as a binary. It looks like it is supposed to load the first 256 bytes of the binary starting at $0500 and the rest starting at $0D00. I don't know much about Commodore 64; do you know the reason for this?
04:35:23 <zzo38> Also what is the capacity of a Commodore 64 disk?
04:36:28 <Sgeo> "Mercifully, there is no elsunless keyword."
04:40:45 <zzo38> I found a file written by Infocom that says "Remember: We Hate Micros (tm)"
04:40:56 <Sgeo> Can I write my own map function in Perl, or does the builtin one use some kind of magic?
04:45:35 <Sgeo> Even Perl's official documentation complains about Perl
04:45:36 <Sgeo> "This function should have been named wantlist() instead."
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05:46:16 <^v> Sgeo, my what
05:46:54 <^v> Even Perl's official documentation complains about Perl
05:51:18 <Sgeo> http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/wantarray.html
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05:57:52 <Bike> perl sure is scary.
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06:34:32 <Sgeo> "The lone dot that ends a format can also prematurely end a mail message passing through a misconfigured Internet mailer (and based on experience, such misconfiguration is the rule, not the exception)."
06:34:38 <Sgeo> This is not Perl being scary here.
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06:36:25 <Sgeo> http://perldoc.perl.org/perllol.html
06:36:27 <Sgeo> Oh, possibly list of list?
06:37:34 <Sgeo> "Well, that's because the rule is that on adjacent brackets only (whether square or curly), you are free to omit the pointer dereferencing arrow."
06:37:55 <Sgeo> I... guess because otherwise ][ doesn't make actual sense as a thing that would be useful?
06:47:42 <fizzie> "Are you still thinking whether to move to #cloud computing or not? Well, its no more a trend but rather a business norm. Make your move now with Cloud at Cost affordable cloud solutions. --"
06:47:59 <fizzie> Well, I won't be making my move until esolangs.org is back up.
06:48:28 <fizzie> Gregor: Have you happened to take a glance at the web-admin panel? Who knows, maybe it'd say something useful now.
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07:10:09 <zzo38> Why is SLOWBRO [Lv.35] so strange?
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09:35:51 <shachaf> zzo38: What is strange about it?
09:36:18 <fizzie> oerjan: Adverbily said.
09:37:13 <shachaf> fizzie: how do mölkky championships even work
09:37:19 <shachaf> it doesn't really seem like that sort of game
09:37:56 <oerjan> the finnish manage to have championships in _wife-carrying_. surely they can work it out.
09:38:21 <fizzie> I'm not sure why not. I mean, you do count a score and all.
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09:39:16 <fizzie> (It's a team thing, you've got 6-person teams and you select a 4-person subset with a set throw order for each game.)
09:40:02 <shachaf> hm, maybe it works better with teams
09:43:32 <oerjan> "##The wife to be carried may be your own, or the neighbor's, or you may have found her further afield; she must, however, be over 17 years of age."
09:44:59 <fizzie> I think there was a Finnish winner in the recently ended 2014 wife-carrying championship.
09:45:10 <fizzie> It's usually either Finnish or Estonian.
09:47:23 <fizzie> "Along with the wife carrying world championships there is also a team competition. The track and rules are the same as Wife Carrying World Championsips but three men in the team carry the wife in turns. At the exchange point the carrier has to drink the official “wife carrying drink” before continuing the race."
09:47:28 <oerjan> s/usually/always/, by wikipedia's list
09:48:23 <fizzie> Well, the silver medalists for 2014 are from UK.
09:48:33 <fizzie> I was under the impression that there was a German winner, but apparently not.
09:49:28 <Melvar> Hm, where does one get a blas?
09:50:39 <fizzie> OpenBLAS is not too shabby. And there's always the good old ATLAS.
09:51:42 <fizzie> And of course there are the processor vendor ones.
09:51:49 <Melvar> libopenblas.so doesn’t seem to contain the copy routines which I’m looking for.
09:51:53 <b_jonas> there's also the blas built from eigen
09:51:56 <b_jonas> but yes, I recommend openblas
09:52:18 <oerjan> "In 2014, the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race sent a cease-and-desist order to Iditarod NYC, asserting that the name "Idiotarod" infringed its trademark in "Iditarod."[8][9] Idiotarod NYC characterized the letter as "frivolous threats of legal action", but renamed the event to "Idiotarodorama NYC (aka 'The Desistarod')"."
09:56:07 <fizzie> That doesn't sound like a BLAS name.
09:58:05 * Melvar has little idea about this …
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10:00:07 <Melvar> It’s in the blas technical forum standard chapter 2. Is this one of those standards that nobody cares to implement in practice?
10:00:27 <b_jonas> Melvar: yes, the blas technical forum is one of those
10:01:04 <b_jonas> Melvar: everyone still either uses the old legacy blas and lapack fortran functions, their C wrappers (cblas and lapacke but the latter is barely used),
10:01:41 <Melvar> Grand. Somehow I had been hoping that people would be actually sane about this kind of lib …
10:01:47 <b_jonas> or something with a more modern interface like eigen. The blas forum is supposed to have been a bit more modern (in 2001) than cblas but it didn't seem to have caught on.
10:01:59 <fizzie> "Sane" and "scientific computing" don't really often go hand-in-hand.
10:02:36 <b_jonas> Melvar: if it's new code (not constrained with compatibility), I recommend you try eigen version 3, get it from http://eigen.tuxfamily.org/
10:03:24 <Melvar> I don’t think I can call C++ …
10:03:49 <b_jonas> it's a C++ library that has an interface _very_ different from any of blas, lapack, cblas, lapacke, blas_forum; though the library happens to provide an implementation of blas.
10:03:54 <b_jonas> Melvar: what language are you calling from?
10:04:21 <b_jonas> and perhaps tell us more about what you want to do
10:06:24 <oerjan> he has this X that he wants to map into a Y
10:06:27 <b_jonas> you said dge_copy, that copies a matrix, possibly transposing or conjugating or hermiteing it, right?
10:06:52 <Melvar> PoC for binding lower-level linear algebra routines in Idris.
10:06:59 <fizzie> Fun fact: our thing uses LAPACK++, and it's the only such thing I've seen.
10:09:48 <Melvar> But, since as it turns out I need wrappers anyway, I’m actually calling the routines from C. I’m just trying to avoid writing major amounts of C.
10:10:23 <b_jonas> Melvar: that's why I mentioned cblas, which wraps the original fortran blas routines to C
10:11:12 <b_jonas> sadly that doesn't seem to have a function that _just_ copies a matrix possibly transposed. it only has a vector copy function.
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10:12:59 <Melvar> Yes, I’ll just have to write the copy myself, I guess. And hope I don’t make any mistakes that C can’t catch, which is most of them …
10:13:16 <b_jonas> (one more library there is is the ublas library from boost, but it's C++ and isn't really blas-like despite its name, and I don't really like it)
10:13:48 <fizzie> Intel's MKL adds something that sounds very "dge_copy"ish as a custom "BLAS-like" extension, so it's probably a oft-requested feature.
10:13:50 <b_jonas> do you want a copy, or a transposed copy? on a matrix with gaps between the rows that must not be overwritten, or one that can be written in full?
10:14:06 <b_jonas> possible, I don't know the intel stuff much
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10:17:25 <Melvar> A copy, with gaps. (I want to be able to copy to submatrices.)
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10:19:05 <Melvar> Man, I just realized that it should work when the source and destination overlap.
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10:29:06 <elliott> fizzie: this downtime is :/
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10:29:13 <boily> oerjan: hellørjanly :D
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10:35:48 <fizzie> elliott: It is. I put up a temporary "out of order" page (with a DNS change), but it'll take a whole day to propagate. (And then another whole day to disappear when things are back up, I guess, but it doesn't seem things are working very fast.)
10:36:24 <elliott> fizzie: I trust cloudatcost even less than I previously did now.
10:36:58 <fizzie> I don't know whether Gregor has a trouble-ticket open there. (Though based on the tweets, it might not do much good.)
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10:40:26 <fizzie> Even if I were to permanently move the wiki, I'd like to get the most recent version out of the cloudhole first. Staying true to the time-honoured esolangs-administering principles of do-as-little-as-humanly-possible, I didn't actually add my (rsync-based) mirroring thing to the crontab after all, just thought about it.
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10:44:11 <fizzie> And of course we're also missing HackEgo. Perhaps I should dig out my half-finished "it's just like HackEgo except it runs arbitrary Z80 code w/ custom syscalls in place of a x86 Linux" bot out of storage. I'm sure people would rather be writing Z80 assembly snippets instead of shell scripts when they want to add a feature.
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10:54:43 <oerjan> fizzie: well zzo38 might.
10:56:28 <impomatic_> Unfortunately all of the settings, etc are local webpages so I can't access any :-(
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11:00:06 <boily> chrome died and you can't open it again?
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11:36:22 <oerjan> hm tmux is working, irssi is working, but the other subwindows are going haywire.
11:36:57 <oerjan> oh ^C fixed the shell one.
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11:57:54 <impomatic_> boily: chrome died and it opens but won't open a webpage, even a local one. No access to the settings either.
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14:00:09 <b_jonas> the esolang wiki webpage has a stub now
14:00:25 <fizzie> I thought people would get confused without.
14:02:44 <fizzie> I made it a 307 Temporary Redirect in the hopes of not messing up Google-crawling or such, though I don't know if that actually helps.
14:04:25 <fizzie> Perhaps it should return a 503 Service Unavailable with that page as the error content, but I'm not sure how to convince lighttpd about that.
14:04:45 <fizzie> It'd be semantically more correct, though.
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14:15:50 <b_jonas> fizzie: make it a cgi that prints "Status: 503 Service Whatever" in the header part?
14:16:01 <b_jonas> I don't do lighttpd, so I'm not sure, sorry
14:16:32 <b_jonas> (Status is a pseudo-header used by CGI to ask the webserver to set the status code in the http response line)
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14:32:20 <elliott> fizzie: esolangs.org just goes to zem.fi for me now
14:32:22 <fizzie> Well, it seems to more or less work.
14:32:48 <fizzie> You may need to convince a browser to uncache or something. I was fiddling with it.
14:33:07 <fizzie> At least esolangs.org/somethingthatIdidnotyetvisit worked for me.
14:33:27 <fizzie> (I'm not sure how to "reload" something that the browser remembers as redirecting.)
14:33:56 <fizzie> Anyway, I have to be on my way, back in half an hour or so. ->
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15:11:39 <fizzie> Heh, during my fiddling and twiddling and tweaking, I managed to return to Googlebot's crawl requests for esolangs.org the following HTTP statuses: 200 (twice), 301 (16 times), 307 (237 times), 403 (once), 404 (350 times) and 503 (48 times).
15:11:50 <fizzie> Welp. I'm sure they're make sense of it all.
15:13:06 <elliott> it's crawling that frequently?
15:13:14 <fizzie> Once a minute, it would appear.
15:14:23 <fizzie> 17:06:48, 17:07:48, 17:08:21, 17:08:46, 17:08:47, 17:09:47, 17:10:49, 17:11:47, 17:12:47.
15:14:54 <fizzie> For the following pages: YABC, Lambdastack, PATH, Talk:Pointy, Squishy2K, Clsuterfuck, User:Shubshub, Fishing, Spaghetti.
15:15:06 <fizzie> They're big esolangs enthusiasts there at Google.
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15:21:08 <oerjan> so we're going to be ungooglable for a while too, you say.
15:22:32 <b_jonas> oerjan: no, google will notice the server is down temporarily only
15:22:52 <oerjan> not if fizzie keeps confusing them completely
15:23:51 <b_jonas> apparently my webserver has got tcp through http tunnel requests. maybe someone was scanning for open proxies or something.
15:24:25 <b_jonas> that was apparently freenode's proxy scanner
15:24:46 <b_jonas> it used to do only a http request for some particular page iirc
15:25:36 <fizzie> Here's one vulnerable-webapp probe for esolangs.org today: http://sprunge.us/EGKU
15:27:41 <ion> We heard you like redundancy, so we put a verb into the URL so you can GET while you GET.
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15:38:06 <ion> GET GetFolders
15:38:10 <ion> /fckeditor/editor
15:38:16 <ion> /connectors/asp/connector.asp
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16:03:44 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Here's one vulnerable-webapp probe for esolangs.org today: http://sprunge.us/EGKU <-- whatever web app that is, it is not very REST
16:04:07 <Vorpal> Also it seems uncertain about the language used by the server
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17:16:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's some (quasi-popular) WYSIWYG text editor component that has different "connectors" for different server-side stuff, I guess whoever's probing for it just wants to be portable.
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17:41:34 <Vorpal> fizzie, what happened with the site?
17:43:19 <fizzie> Vorpal: http://members.cloudatcost.com/index.php?fuse=admin&view=Announcements&ann_id=29 happened
17:43:37 <fizzie> Oh, I see they claim that everything is fine now.
17:43:56 <fizzie> "If your server is down please ensure your support ticket has the proper package selected."
17:44:12 <fizzie> I'm thinking Gregor should probably see if something can be done, then.
17:44:18 <elliott> (what is fiber channel locking????)
17:44:25 <Vorpal> elliott, I was about to ask too
17:44:55 <fizzie> As far as I could figure out, it's some sort of configuration-change synchronization thing for FC setups.
17:45:01 <fizzie> But it sounded very strange.
17:45:12 <fizzie> Since it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that would need to happen often.
17:46:29 <fizzie> "Hey @cloudatcost how's that downtime going? My server's been down 8+ days now (along with a ton of other people). You're terrible."
17:47:27 <Vorpal> Is it possible to change Debian's alternatives on a per-user basis?
17:47:53 <fizzie> Anyway, I don't have access to the cloudatcost side of things, so I can only wait and see.
17:48:22 <fizzie> And I don't think so, since it's just based on updating symlinks, AFAIK.
17:48:59 <Vorpal> I wonder what will happen if I change default from openjdk6 to openjdk7 though
17:49:44 <fizzie> Heh, /etc/alternatives is full of SQL keywords.
17:49:58 <fizzie> (PostgreSQL man pages.)
17:50:52 <Vorpal> I guess I need to update java, javac and so on then :/
17:51:19 <Vorpal> Yeah there is a lot of java ones
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17:55:40 <fizzie> Vorpal: Oh, by the way, did you get the link to the Bastedalen garden photo? I think I @tell'd it at one point.
17:56:24 <Vorpal> fizzie, yes I recognize it
17:56:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, is that their restaurant?
17:56:58 <fizzie> No, that's in Stockholm.
17:57:08 <fizzie> http://www.berns.se/en/restaurant/berns-asiatiska/
17:57:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm... https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/14413809416/in/set-72157644793637880/ Örebro right?
17:57:52 <fizzie> It's Linköping, actually.
17:58:03 <fizzie> But based on a quick Google, it looks quite similar.
17:58:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, also I have been to both places
17:58:26 <Vorpal> I think the Linköping one is larger though
17:58:34 <Vorpal> But hard to tell that from the picture
17:58:56 <fizzie> Right. There's also a photo of an arch over the river in Linköping, couldn't really find a name for it.
17:59:29 <fizzie> Nothing I'd care to put in Flickr; this is kind of a best-of set. Wasn't carrying a tripod. I'm sure I did some handheld things, though.
17:59:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, there is a nice military aircraft museum in Linköping if you are into that sort of thing
18:00:00 <fizzie> Some meerkat enthusiast had favourited one of the Kolmården meerkat photos.
18:00:43 <Vorpal> Been many years since I last visited Kolmården
18:00:53 <fizzie> There's a similar best-of set from Japan in the Flickr account, there's a hotel-room-window panorama there from Kyoto.
18:00:59 <fizzie> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/sets/72157644562714080/
18:01:14 <Vorpal> I think I havbe seen that one before
18:01:48 <fizzie> Well, they're earlier than the Sweden ones, I may have advertised.
18:01:58 <Vorpal> Ever considered using hugin for architectural correction? Thinking of https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/14141632609/in/set-72157644562714080 for example
18:02:20 <Vorpal> Lets you avoid the "leaning back" effect if you want to
18:02:27 <fizzie> I did test that out on a photo of one of the university buildings.
18:03:48 <Vorpal> Hm anyone used the Sublime text editor? Not open source, but pretty nice I have to say after playing around with it for a while.
18:04:42 <fizzie> Some former university acquaintances swear by it.
18:04:59 <fizzie> Vorpal: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140717-img_3682-3687.jpg is a handheld panorama from Pihlajasaari, one of the islands near Helsinki.
18:05:03 <Vorpal> I have some colleagues who do the same
18:05:27 <Vorpal> I can see that the project management/workspace aspect of it is pretty nice.
18:05:53 <fizzie> (Rightmost image seems to be a bit tilted, but I can't be bothered to go fix.)
18:06:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, just wish I had a monitor that could display it in all it's glory. A two monitor setup of mixed monitor types is hardly ideal for this
18:06:26 <Vorpal> Yeah the monitors don't even properly line up
18:06:58 <fizzie> Neither do mine. They're both 1200 pixels tall, but the other is 2 cm taller physically speaking.
18:07:57 <Vorpal> Yeah I have a 1920x1200 and a 1680x1050. The former IPS the latter TN
18:08:41 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140717-img_3240-3245.jpg -- there's one more hotel-room-view one, that's from the Linköping hotel.
18:10:05 <fizzie> The palm trees were a bit incongruous.
18:10:28 <fizzie> I assume they move them off in the winter.
18:10:56 <fizzie> Also speaking of photography, I made a thing the other week: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:387442
18:11:12 <Vorpal> Nice, you have a 3D printer?
18:11:20 <fizzie> No, I printed it at the local library.
18:11:27 <Vorpal> Oh, that is a cool service
18:12:14 <fizzie> They have three (or four, but one was broken) of these Finnish-design http://www.minifactory.fi/ printers, I'm sure they've gotten them cheap for free advertising.
18:12:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, I have been traveling but I didn't take any photos really. Was too busy with other stuff.
18:12:29 <fizzie> But it's still nice. They don't even charge anything.
18:12:37 <Vorpal> Also didn't have any camera apart from my phone with me
18:12:45 <Vorpal> And the Galaxy S3 camera isn't that great
18:13:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, not even material?
18:14:21 <fizzie> Well, you know, the printers are so slow; they've probably just decided that even with 100% utilization (during the library's opening hours) the material costs won't be all that much.
18:15:03 <fizzie> I'm sure it's some amount of euros/day, but I guess they have a larger budget than that.
18:16:15 <fizzie> My printout took 8 hours (the entire day, pretty much) and based on some random MakerBot PLA filament retail prices, it probably cost somewhere between $1 and $10 in materials.
18:16:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway I'm leaving for a couple of days starting tomorrow. Going to a relative with a summer house out in the middle of the woods. But I don't see myself taking much photos.
18:17:25 <fizzie> No impressive landmarks?-)
18:17:30 <Vorpal> I have been taking less photos over all recently. Been more about experiencing the place in the moment instead of concentrating on photographing
18:17:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, I'm going to go out by boat too, don't want to get my camera wet
18:18:20 <Vorpal> Which will be a first for me
18:18:30 <Vorpal> (Not the covered kind though)
18:18:52 <Vorpal> A canadian canoe I believe
18:19:07 <fizzie> Two canoeists just died off the Helsinki coast. Uh, not to be negative or anything.
18:19:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, well I will be in a lake, not a big one either
18:19:37 <Vorpal> Also I can swim quite well. I plan on doing that as well
18:19:53 <Vorpal> The weather should be really nice there
18:21:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, and no I don't think there are many landmarks around. Just lots and lots of forest.
18:21:17 <fizzie> That describes most of Finland, too.
18:21:20 <Vorpal> Which is really nice and restful. But not good for photos
18:22:49 <Vorpal> I might as well bring the camera though. Since I'm going by car this time
18:23:05 <Vorpal> (last time I traveled I went by airplane and really didn't have space for anything extra)
18:24:06 <Vorpal> Where the hell is the charger for the camera though!?
18:25:50 <Vorpal> It has a non-standard battery so...
18:26:44 <fizzie> They all are non-standard.
18:27:02 <fizzie> Though I think compact cameras have started to do micro-USB charging recently.
18:27:39 <fizzie> (Charging using the camera itself, I mean.)
18:28:02 <Vorpal> My camera is way too old for that
18:28:49 <fizzie> I was looking at the AC adapter for my camera (just out of curiosity), and Canon charges something like a hundred euros for it.
18:29:15 <fizzie> It's just a connector in a piece of plastic shaped like the battery, and a transformer brick.
18:30:23 <fizzie> http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/ac-adapter-kit-ack-e6 "You Pay: $153.00 -- Was: $180.00 -- You Save: $27.00" wow, what a steal
18:40:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is annoying is that the place I found the charger in I looked at a couple of times before when searching and thought "nah, it probably isn't there, and I would have to bend down to really look"
18:42:17 <fizzie> On the other hand, if you hadn't thought that, it wouldn't have been there.
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20:33:00 <Phantom_Hoover> were all these things on the one server or was this part of some sort of strange anti-esolang campaign
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20:34:22 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: i worship these guys, i have fnord sme photos, but i
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20:57:43 <FireFly> Can't have #esoteric without fungot
20:57:43 <fungot> FireFly: ' greatest' party!! i voted for badnarik, heh.
21:01:04 <olsner> fungot: I think you could've voted for yourself if you wanted to
21:01:04 <fungot> olsner: gah i meant " gregorr tries to decide how best to make the code less readable, wouldn't you? :) i'm targetting at a game engine
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22:01:09 <Taneb> Do lines 4-13 of https://gist.github.com/Taneb/8ff2b97774736ab43856 make me a bad person?
22:03:59 <Bicyclidine> I estimate that about four protein complexes, from say your liver, will have to spend 10^18 years in Avīci for that.
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22:05:11 <metasepia> In Buddhism, or Avichi, is the lowest Level of the Naraka or "hell" realm, into which the dead who have committed grave misdeeds may be reborn. It is said to be a cube 20,000 yojanas to a side, buried deep underneath the earth. Av+ci is often translated into English as "interminable" or "incessant", due to the idea that those beings which have been sent there languish there eternally. The other hells function more like Purgatory, where after perhaps
22:05:17 <Bicyclidine> Scaling a bit, we could say ten liver cells become hungry ghosts, or your enteric nervous system stubs its toe once.
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22:07:23 <boily> Taneb: fyi, I have no idea how that code makes you bad hth
22:08:02 <Taneb> I'm not convinced it's portable.
22:09:54 <elliott> it depends on endianness for one thing
22:10:03 <elliott> plus that struct would need to be packed
22:10:29 <FireFly> Packed structs is a gcc extension, no?
22:11:06 <FireFly> oh, I guess it's more common than that..
22:11:14 <Bicyclidine> may have to upgrade to like, twelve proteins in avīci, then. sorry taneb
22:11:16 <elliott> doing unportable things requires unportable things, yeah
22:12:46 <boily> I want to `addquote, but the lack of HackEgo is beginning to seriously misalign my chakras.
22:13:19 <elliott> not the things I said I hope
22:14:54 <Taneb> HackEgo, the wiki, where is everything going
22:15:56 <boily> elliott: I could, but I like Bike's protein count ^^
22:16:25 <boily> Taneb: I think they are being reincarnated. watch out for exotic frogs with unusual behaviours.
22:25:34 <Taneb> elliott, do you have any suggestions towards making a more portable version?
22:25:56 <elliott> Taneb: yeah: define a struct and conversion functions
22:26:16 <elliott> it's not much more work and it's easier to understand and it's portable
22:28:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: one, because there can be padding between the struct elements
22:28:29 <elliott> two, because there are two ways to interpret a uint16_t as two uint8_ts -- i.e. endianness
22:28:43 <elliott> three, probably some more C standards lawyer detail I'm forgetting
22:32:30 <elliott> SPARC may or may not be dead.
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22:50:05 <fizzie> The whole concept of "read a different member of a union than the one that was last written to" is only (barely) legal due to a footnote, and that in a late (C99?) standard. And even with the footnote, some people argue against it from the perspective of the strict-aliasing rules.
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22:55:38 <fizzie> I guess it's sort of useless to try to get that said right now.
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22:56:56 <fizzie> I'll try to get my standard quotes through again, maybe it'll break again.
22:57:15 <fizzie> As I was saying, the footnote kinda-sorta allowing it is C11 footnote 95: "If the member used to read the contents of a union object is not the same as the member last used to store a value in the object, the appropriate part of the object representation of the value is reinterpreted as an object representation in the new type as described in 6.2.6 (a process sometimes called ``type ...
22:57:21 <fizzie> ... punning''). This might be a trap representation."
22:57:21 <fizzie> And others argue that (esp. as a non-normative footnote) that still doesn't invalidate the strict-aliasing rules of C11 6.5p7: "An object shall have its stored value accessed only by an lvalue expression that has one of the following types:88) [a rather restrictive list] Footnote 88) The intent of this list is to specify those circumstances in which an object may or may not be aliased."
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22:58:14 <fizzie> The restrictive list does include character types, but uint8_t need not be one, even if it probably usually is.
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23:01:08 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, seeing #haskell with <300 people was scary
23:01:28 <fizzie> [01:56:16] -!- Irssi: #esoteric: Total of 2 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
23:01:34 <Phantom_Hoover> i felt a terrible responsibility settle on my shoulders
23:03:45 <elliott> Taneb: seeing #haskell is scary
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