00:02:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40166&oldid=39975 * 41.227.146.80 * (+15) /* General languages */
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01:08:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MikelIcely * New user account
01:08:26 <oerjan> by wikipedia's news, you'd think flying was dangerous or something
01:11:02 <oerjan> @tell fizzie i clearly remember visiting the newly editable wiki earlier tonight, but now the DNS has turned _back_ to the uneditable version.
01:17:59 <zzo38> Do you like the Imakuni?'s cards?
01:18:30 <zzo38> Do you know the proper IP address for the editable wiki? You could temporarily override it manually until it is fixed.
01:19:08 <oerjan> yes i found it from another (nvg) server
01:19:27 <oerjan> but i'm too lazy unless it's important
01:28:07 <zzo38> Some tournaments for various games have tie breakers; it is common. However, I prefer to defer any tie breakers until they are needed, allowing the tie to stand when possible. What is your opinion of this? (Clearly, it depends on the tournament format.)
01:29:37 <oerjan> yeah, soccer is like that, tie breaking is only used when there has to be a winner.
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01:34:39 <zzo38> I know that in Rock-Paper-Scissors tournament, in case of a tie normally the game continues normally, but if it happens too often then the referee is required to interfere.
01:37:07 <zzo38> In Pokemon Card, there is a standard "sudden death" rule, however I do not like it and instead use the following rule: If the game ended with both players meeting win conditions just after one player attacked, before poison is checked, then the attacker loses; otherwise the tie stands. Standing ties are then deferred according to tournament conditions.
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01:38:37 <nys> Arete Code
01:41:41 <zzo38> What is the rule in poker if you cannot divide the pot?
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01:49:47 <zzo38> I know that in Pandante (Texas Hold'em for Pandas), such a situation is impossible; the amount of the pot is always even and if there is a tie of more than two players, nobody gets paid anything.
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02:09:20 <oerjan> the massacre continues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/FALSE
02:13:59 <zzo38> Is there a Pokemon Card manga where Professor Oak invents Pokemon Card?
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03:41:44 <Sgeo> What's the best way to convert .wmv to something playable on Macs easily?
03:41:58 <Sgeo> I tried using VLC to convert to mp4, but the sound came out garbaled
03:43:52 <zzo38> If nothing else works, you can try to just record the output of Windows Media Player.
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03:55:32 <Bike> some horrid command line invocation but it'll work
03:56:12 <Sgeo> Cygwin doesn't have it?
03:56:24 <Bike> i thought you were on a mac
03:56:48 <Sgeo> There are people who need to view this file who are on a mac
03:57:11 <Sgeo> Stupidly, I recorded it with GoToMeeting
03:57:11 <Bike> well there are ffmpeg binaries for windows, on the site, you don't need cygwin, probably
03:57:57 <Bike> when i transcoded things on windows i used winamp but that was years ago and also it's bloated as shit nowadays or wahtever.
03:59:57 <Sgeo> I thought WinAmp was dead
04:00:36 <Sgeo> "Despite AOL's announcement, the Winamp site was not shut down as planned, and on January 14, 2014, it was officially announced that Belgian online radio aggregator Radionomy had bought the Nullsoft brand, which includes Winamp and Shoutcast."
04:01:21 * Sgeo twitches at WinAmp's website
04:01:32 <Sgeo> That laptop looks like it's off the screen in my browser
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04:05:53 <Sgeo> If I want to maintain the same bitrates, do I use ffprobe and look at the kb/s of each individual stream?
04:06:45 <Sgeo> Oh I think -crf 0
04:11:08 <Sgeo> Ok, that takes way too long
04:11:20 <Sgeo> Do macs come with ffplay?
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04:50:42 <Sgeo> And... the file is too big to attach, ugh
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05:54:03 <fizzie> @tell oerjan WELL THAT'S FUNNY I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S UP WITH THAT
06:01:11 <fizzie> @tell oerjan More seriously, perhaps your ISP has two (or more) name servers, only some of which had the old esolangs.org cached.
06:03:07 <HackEgo> olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
06:03:47 <fizzie> Also AIUI, a CRF of 0 would be an entirely lossless encoding, since it's going to translate to a -qp of 0.
06:05:05 <Sgeo> Right, lossless but encoded from a video that was presumably lossily encoded in the first place
06:05:14 <Sgeo> Maybe I don't understand video codecs.
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08:50:40 <fizzie> "Subject: CAN I DEPOSIT 20,000,000.00GBP INTO YOUR ACCOUNT"
08:50:47 <fizzie> A very excited piece of spam.
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08:57:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40167&oldid=40108 * TieSoul * (+13) Befunk added.
09:04:15 <myname> wait, befunge is concurrent?
09:08:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40168&oldid=40165 * TieSoul * (+205) Added external resources.
09:09:46 <TieSoul> there's a concurrent version of Befunge-98
09:10:24 <TieSoul> with an instruction 't' that adds another IP going in reversed direction of the IP that runs it.
09:10:49 <myname> with one shared stack or one stack per IP?
09:11:08 <TieSoul> no, one stack stack per IP
09:11:33 <TieSoul> IPs do inherit stack stacks from their parent IPs
09:11:55 <TieSoul> some implementations don't do that
09:12:38 <TieSoul> the descriptions for 400, 401 and 402 are cut off D:
09:13:08 <myname> i need a befunge to befunk converter
09:15:52 <TieSoul> A perfect one cannot be made
09:16:18 <TieSoul> because of instructions that are executed both in and not in stringmode
09:16:23 <TieSoul> so strings will get messed up
09:17:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40169&oldid=40168 * TieSoul * (+68) Fuxed the descriptions for instructions 400 through 402.
09:24:14 <fizzie> There's also vague plans for an asynchronous concurrency fingerprint for Funge-98.
09:24:19 <fizzie> ATHR or something like that.
09:25:07 <fizzie> Since the "native" concurrency (via 't') mandates that each IP executes a single tick in alternating order.
09:25:58 <fizzie> There are also rumours that one of the less-known intermediate versions (Befunge-96 or Befunge-97, I forget which) did shared-stack concurrency.
09:26:43 <fizzie> http://frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/tmp/bef_maillist_0_520.txt seems to suggest that it was -96.
09:26:54 <Taneb> I really need to get a desk
09:27:52 <fizzie> Perhaps you could 3d-print one.
09:27:55 <fizzie> It would be very 2014.
09:28:27 <Taneb> Which would be great if I had access to a 3D printer, and my landlady hasn't said that she'll buy me one if I find one
09:28:45 <Taneb> That is, she'll buy me a desk
09:29:13 <fizzie> You could try explaining that a 3D printer equals an unlimited amount of desks.
09:29:28 <fizzie> As long as they fit in a, say, 16x16x16 cm cube, and don't have to be very strong.
09:30:15 <Taneb> I think IKEA may be a better short-term solution
09:34:55 <fizzie> Our desks are of the GALANT series.
09:35:08 <fizzie> Anyway, they're not bad.
09:40:36 <impomatic_> I bought our desks from here http://www.theofficesuppliessupermarket.com
09:41:10 <impomatic_> They're nothing exciting to look at, but pretty solid.
09:44:25 * impomatic_ is writing a program to play Neutron http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/neutron.html
10:05:04 <TieSoul> How do I use newlines in code blocks properly on the wiki?
10:07:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Replacefuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40170 * TieSoul * (+1464) Created page.
10:09:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40171&oldid=40167 * TieSoul * (+18) Added replacefuck.
10:10:44 <TieSoul> I thought up and implemented replacefuck in like 15 minutes :P
10:11:57 <olsner> 15 minutes is a long time in the life of a brainfuck derivative
10:12:55 <HackEgo> Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives.
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10:16:47 <boily> "Please wait while boily is fully booted..."
10:17:08 <boily> (just got out of bed. not entirely coherent yet. my toasts need nutella.)
10:19:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40172&oldid=40169 * TieSoul * (+0)
10:19:32 <Taneb> http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/deadpool-arrested-on-sydney-train-police-alerted-to-superhero-armed-with-guns-grenades-and-ninja-swords/story-fni0cx12-1227001404525?nk=11bebdd40bbec2cef7639e9952ed7285
10:22:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40173&oldid=40172 * TieSoul * (+5) Fixed '|' not displaying in the instruction table.
10:22:54 <boily> TieSoul: good morning!
10:28:45 <boily> it feels good to be able to update the PDF again ^^
10:34:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Topsy turvy]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40174 * 91.125.156.167 * (+1149) Created page with "==Language definition== '''Topsy Turvy''' operates on an array of cells, each initially set to an undefined value. A data pointer initially points to the cell in the centre of..."
10:37:36 <TieSoul> It also inverts all stat changes on the foe :P
10:37:52 <TieSoul> That's a pokemon reference
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11:02:59 <fizzie> Huh. LaTeX/BibTeX is putting the locatio and the year of a random conference at the top of the bibliography for no discernible reason.
11:04:12 <fizzie> In the source .bib file, there's a @proceedings entry, and two (cited) @inproceedings entries referring to it with a crossref field.
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11:07:56 <boily> maybe a stray space somewhere is wrecking the numerical/alphabetical/asciibetical order?
11:10:12 <fizzie> But, I mean, it's not a complete entry or anything.
11:10:44 <fizzie> It just says "Chiba, Japan, Sept. 2010" on the top of the bibliography.
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11:13:48 <fizzie> And, uh... in the two entries where it *should* say that, it just says a nonsensical "con (2010)".
11:15:21 <int-e> Impossible to diagnose, there are too many variables, starting from the bibstyle, which may just be buggy
11:15:35 <fizzie> As in: [...]. In /Proceedings of the 11th Annual Conference of the International Speech Communication Association (Interspeech 2010)/ con (2010), pages [...]
11:15:50 <fizzie> With // denoting italics.
11:17:02 <fizzie> All the other similar stuff works fine.
11:20:12 <fizzie> It vaguely seems to happen if there is more than one entry pointing (with crossref) at the same conference.
11:20:25 <fizzie> But that's just silly, since the whole point was to share those.
11:23:36 <fizzie> For the record, the style is natbib's "abbrvnat".
11:26:54 <fizzie> If I make a second conference with >1 crossref to it, it puts the address and year of that also on top of the list, and then writes "con (1984)" in the entries.
11:27:15 <fizzie> Which makes it sound like it's something intentional.
11:27:23 <fizzie> Maybe I need to look at the natbib documentation.
11:34:04 <fizzie> Welp, I can't seem to find anything about automagically doing something like that.
11:35:49 <fizzie> Doesn't happen if I don't use the crossref, but that's silly.
11:36:50 <fizzie> Oh, it's apparently a bibtex feature.
11:38:23 <fizzie> "bibtex -min-crossrefs=100" made it stop; apparently it will then only make some sort of automagical separate "crossref" entries if there are at least 100 references to the same thing.
11:38:50 <fizzie> I don't have any idea why it decided to "abstract out" only the address and year, and not e.g. the booktitle.
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12:08:20 <fizzie> I wonder why NIPS papers' "official" BibTeX files use @incollection instead of @inproceedings. I mean, it is a conference.
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12:23:14 <b_jonas> someone add the two languages used in this year's icfp to the wiki
12:23:20 <b_jonas> if you figure out how they work
12:23:30 <b_jonas> do that only after the contest
12:31:44 <lambdabot> fizzie said 6h 37m 40s ago: WELL THAT'S FUNNY I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S UP WITH THAT
12:31:44 <lambdabot> fizzie said 6h 30m 32s ago: More seriously, perhaps your ISP has two (or more) name servers, only some of which had the old esolangs.org cached.
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12:39:10 <fizzie> "Page(s): I" I certainly doubt that.
12:39:32 <fizzie> Especially since the paper is 4 pages.
12:39:59 <fizzie> (Apparently the "correct" answer is it's pages from "I - 289" to "I - 292".)
12:40:45 <fizzie> oerjan: How about NOW?
12:42:12 <oerjan> this looks decisively un-editable.
12:43:44 <fizzie> I don't know why that should be.
12:44:02 <fizzie> The TTL time should be 86400 seconds, also.
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12:44:29 <fizzie> PIN numbers and all that.
12:44:54 <oerjan> maybe i should try restarting the router.
12:46:47 <olsner> how long ago was the DNS changed? my dig shows a TTL of 10000 remaining (for esolangs.org)
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13:08:23 <fizzie> olsner: And what address?
13:08:40 <olsner> fizzie: 162.248.166.242
13:08:51 <fizzie> Well, that's the new one.
13:09:01 <fizzie> I mean, the right one.
13:09:08 <fizzie> It's a matter of definitions, of course.
13:09:35 <fizzie> In any case, I think I changed it around 9AM (EEST) yesterday, which should have been more than a day ago.
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13:58:47 <olsner> b_jonas: they don't seem particularly hard to figure out, fwiw, they're almost fully documented by the icfp description
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14:31:09 <b_jonas> olsner: yeah, but they're sort of unrealistic, as in, they don't really look like something you'd have in a 1980s microcontroller, and especially the way the interrupts are designed seems to want to deliberately limit the ghost's power
14:45:57 <b_jonas> but yeah, certainly not as esoteric as Endo's DNS
14:46:40 <b_jonas> that reminds me, Endo's DNS certainly needs a mention on the esowiki
14:47:03 <b_jonas> because that's a crazy pattern matcher language
14:52:38 <b_jonas> olsner: from a previous ICFP contest
14:53:28 <b_jonas> it's a self-modifying string pattern matching language with a much more powerful matcher than just fixed strings
14:54:16 <b_jonas> it can copy long strings in quasi-constant time so you need some kind of balanced tree representation to implement it properly (this is basically mentioned in the task spec)
14:54:25 <b_jonas> copy and concatenate and slice
15:08:22 <oerjan> this was the year everyone was discussing ropes, right
15:11:45 <olsner> I wonder if modifying my c++ template lisp compiler is a reasonable way to attack this problem
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15:16:57 <HackEgo> 417) <itidus20> monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 461) <elliott> I MIGHT BECOME GHOST
15:20:34 <HackEgo> 809) <HackEgo> 88) <ais523> (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) [...] <Sgeo_> Is there supposed to be a joke in 88? <Sgeo_> Unless "N-Gage" is some pseudoscientific spiritual mumbo-jumbo, I don't get it. <Sgeo_> Oh, it's a cell phone gaming thing apparently \ 1084) <boily> btw, ^v, what are your approximate geographic coördi
15:21:43 <olsner> b_jonas: anyway, it takes s-expressions coded as c++ types and interprets them to types or compiles them to functions
15:21:44 <oerjan> `` quote spirit | tail -n +2
15:21:45 <HackEgo> 1084) <boily> btw, ^v, what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? <^v> 300 and USA <boily> nice to see that ^v is keeping with the spirit of the channel by providing completely useless answers to the question.
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15:31:37 <nooodl> i think i've solved infinite dimensional 3x3x3x... tic-tac-toe!
15:33:06 <nooodl> found a strategy to always win as X
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15:33:50 <oerjan> logically, the first player is always able not to lose
15:34:14 <nooodl> wanna play a game? moves are infinite sequences of {-1,0,1}
15:34:27 <nooodl> (i feel like testing my strategy)
15:34:55 <tromp__> moves must be computable sequences?
15:35:16 <oerjan> i don't think that matters
15:35:25 <oerjan> at least if it's a finite game
15:37:09 <b_jonas> wait... _infinite_ sequences?
15:37:30 <nooodl> yeah. cause the grid is infinite-dimensional
15:37:33 <tromp__> can't you just win in the first 3 dimensions?
15:37:33 <oerjan> he _did_ say infinite dimensional, b_jonas
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15:38:26 <b_jonas> but then it's easy, for the first three moves you just make three generic moves (that is, they're linear independent with all previous moves including yours and the opponent),
15:38:35 <b_jonas> then you have to open positions to finish
15:38:44 <b_jonas> it's a bit more complicated
15:39:08 <b_jonas> but basically something like that works
15:39:14 <b_jonas> your first move is all zeros,
15:39:35 <b_jonas> first move is all -1 I mean
15:39:41 <oerjan> i have a hunch that there is some finite dimension which suffices to show the strategy
15:39:52 <oerjan> actually that's obvious if the game is bounded
15:39:55 <b_jonas> next move is random sequences of all -1 and 0
15:40:00 <nooodl> oerjan: indeed; it's 3
15:40:14 <b_jonas> third move is random sequence of all -1 and 0 but such that where you had 0 in second move you have 0 here too
15:41:42 <oerjan> well you need to ensure the opponent didn't win first
15:42:12 <nooodl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15495351/inftic.pdf
15:44:26 <HackEgo> 967) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
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15:44:55 <olsner> (does it always produce that quote, or was I incredibly lucky?)
15:44:55 <HackEgo> 967) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
15:45:10 <int-e> `cat bin/pastaquote
15:45:11 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec quote "pasta|spaghetti|macaroni|maccheroni|ravioli|fusilli|tortellini|noodle|tagliatelle"
15:45:32 <HackEgo> 967) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
15:45:58 <HackEgo> 52) <oklopol> actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge \ 112) <fungot> ais523: elf corpses are not considered expensive health food. but the most expensive. \ 350) * perlmonkey is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
15:46:00 <HackEgo> 86) <soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect <soupdragon> ^ I learned that trick from atheists \ 305) <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes th
15:46:37 <int-e> `` grep 'pasta|spaghetti|macaroni|maccheroni|ravioli|fusilli|tortellini|noodle|tagliatelle' quotes | wc
15:46:48 <int-e> `` egrep 'pasta|spaghetti|macaroni|maccheroni|ravioli|fusilli|tortellini|noodle|tagliatelle' quotes | wc
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16:31:25 <b_jonas> I wonder if it's possible to program the GCC (ICFP esolang) in a procedural way such that you don't use the call stack except at startup to set up a large enough environment frame for all the registers you need
16:31:49 <b_jonas> then you just jump around the code with TSEL and use the environment as registers and work as if it was a register machine
16:32:12 <b_jonas> with the ST and LD instructions
16:32:38 <b_jonas> I think it is, which proves this is a multi-paradigm esolang
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16:49:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DocHerring * New user account
16:52:32 <ion> Are you taking a video? http://youtu.be/1ACpoOkNEcQ
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17:36:37 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl.
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18:12:44 <myname> somebody knows a bit about g8 and sbt and wants to tell me what i'm doing wrong on following a readme?
18:14:47 <myname> basically, i want to use https://github.com/ajhager/libgdx-sbt-project.g8 and get a bunch of errors on desktop/run
18:25:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ChelseaEthridge * New user account
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19:23:44 <zzo38> TOGA computer looks to be a really simple kind of computer, probably can be done with only a few 74xx series. How easily do you think a similar thing could be put into a Famicom cartridge?
19:25:59 <zzo38> Are there designations for how powerful a particular model of a finite state machine is? Such as how many steps need to be inserted when converting from an arbitrary finite state machine, and how many steps are inserted when converting into an arbitrary finite state machine.
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19:29:31 * impomatic_ is looking for a quote about paper, scissors, stone (preferable by John von Neumann)
19:32:42 <zzo38> I don't know of any such
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19:43:29 <Vorpal> There is no depmod on openwrt. What a pain
19:43:57 <Vorpal> So it doesn't realise that to load sd_mod it need to load scsi_mod
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20:11:41 <b_jonas> I have a non-esoteric question. Can you recommend me a good textbook on LR-variant parsers for context-free languages?
20:12:44 <b_jonas> I've borrowed the book (John E. Hopcroft, Rajeev Motwani, Jeffrey D. Ullman, "Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation", 2nd ed, Addison-Wesley)
20:12:53 <b_jonas> hoping that it would be like that, but no
20:13:13 <b_jonas> it turns out that's an introductory textbook to formal languages, and says very little about LR parsing
20:13:30 <b_jonas> so please recommend me a good book
20:13:42 <b_jonas> I wonder where else to ask, hmm...
20:14:05 <nys> there's a room called ##parsers as a matter of fact
20:14:56 <b_jonas> nys: isn't that for existing parser software? I'm more interested in theory
20:15:03 <b_jonas> I think I'll try #haskell or maybe #haskell-blah
20:15:54 <b_jonas> but I'd prefer if you just gave a recommendation here
20:16:07 <nys> b_jonas, as far as i can tell it's filled with people that are interested in parsers and parsing
20:17:03 <fizzie> The Dragon Book has a chapter, I think.
20:17:29 <fizzie> It's a bit more generic-audience book than just parsers, of course.
20:18:31 <b_jonas> and I guess I'll ask ais specifically
20:18:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: let me look at that
20:19:00 <b_jonas> fizzie: which Dragon Book?
20:19:16 -!- Koen_ has left.
20:19:56 <fizzie> b_jonas: "Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools".
20:20:59 <b_jonas> is there a detailed TOC of that available somewhere?
20:21:30 <fizzie> http://www.pearson.ch/1471/9780321491695/Compilers_Principles_Techniques_and.aspx has one.
20:22:30 <b_jonas> "4.7 More Powerful LR Parsers" sounds great, thanks!
20:23:12 <b_jonas> let me check the library catalogs then
20:24:16 <shachaf> fizzie: what would "OHHEA, OHHEA !!!!" mean?
20:24:23 <shachaf> is it trying to be "onnea"?
20:24:51 <fizzie> Perhaps referring to the Cyrillic н?
20:25:17 <shachaf> whoa, i thought that was an H but it wasn't
20:25:42 <shachaf> it's actually "ОННЕА, ОННЕА !!!!"
20:26:12 <ion> shachaf: I was just about to say that perhaps it was ОННЕА.
20:26:51 <ion> https://translate.google.com/?source=osdd#auto/en/%D0%9E%D0%9D%D0%9D%D0%95%D0%90
20:27:26 <shachaf> i'm not sure that quite answers the question
20:27:40 <ion> you’re Not, sure
20:28:19 <ion> I’mn’t`ap`tail
20:29:03 <fizzie> My Russian dictionary doesn't know anything about "ОННЕА".
20:29:05 <b_jonas> found only one copy of the 2nd edition of "Compilers, principles, techniques and tools", and that one might not be possible to get
20:29:42 <b_jonas> fizzie: maybe it's not the dictionary form?
20:30:05 <fizzie> That's very possible; I only did one year of Russian, and forgot all about it. (Still, I would've expected to see at least something similar.)
20:30:13 <fizzie> Sometimes people do write Finnish transliterated to the Cyrillic alphabet "for the lulz".
20:30:23 <fizzie> In which case it would be "onnea", again.
20:30:31 <b_jonas> I might try to phone them in any case
20:31:07 <shachaf> the person who wrote this message is a finnish speaker who has learned russian within the past few years
20:31:51 <shachaf> the subject of the email was "HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!"
20:31:51 <fizzie> Do they also have a reason to congratulate you?
20:32:01 <shachaf> so it sounds like maybe "onnea" is appropriate
20:32:05 <fizzie> Well, in that case I'd go with my hypothesis.
20:37:45 <b_jonas> anyway, I'll ask for this but it might be unborrowable
20:39:30 <fizzie> My compiler textbook is Appel's "Modern compiler implementation in Java", but that's not my fault.
20:39:41 <fizzie> It's what our compilers course used.
20:40:05 <fizzie> There's a total of 13 pages about LR parsers.
20:40:34 <fizzie> It does explain the concepts, anyhow.
20:41:28 <hektor> btw do you have any tips on writing parser generators?
20:41:47 <zzo38> I have a book "Crafting A Compiler" which describes LR parsers.
20:41:49 <fizzie> With the (I think usual) progression of LR(0) -> SLR -> LR(1) -> LALR(1).
20:41:53 <b_jonas> I actually want to parse a language that's not even LR, so I'd prefer variants that aren't strictly less powerful than LR(n)
20:42:14 <impomatic_> Nothing really on my bookshelf. Several books just have a token 20-30 page section on LR parsers. The Red Dragon book has 32 pages.
20:42:17 <zzo38> Lemon is a LALR(1) parser generator.
20:42:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: are you sure? I had the impression that Lemon is an LL parser generator
20:42:58 <zzo38> I have used it, as well as made some modifications to it, so now it can also be used to parse some LR(1) grammars that aren't LALR(1) too, if you give it the commands to do so.
20:43:07 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, it is LALR(1).
20:46:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: Fisher, Charles N, "Crafting a compiler with C", Benjamin/Cummings, copyright 1991. is this it? and is it the latest edition?
20:46:25 <zzo38> No, that isn't it.
20:46:39 <zzo38> Although it is Benjamin/Cummings.
20:46:47 <b_jonas> ah wait, here's another one
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20:47:12 <zzo38> And it is written by Charles Fisher as well.
20:47:15 <b_jonas> Fisher, Charles N, "Crafting a Compiler", Benjamin/Cummings, cop. 1988
20:47:29 <zzo38> Yes, I think it is that one.
20:47:30 <b_jonas> maybe the title changed in the newer edition then?
20:47:48 <zzo38> It doesn't mention C much; most of the code in the book uses Ada.
20:47:55 <b_jonas> that older one isn't available
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20:48:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, maybe it's rewritten or something
20:48:09 <b_jonas> let me try to search the net for info about this
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20:55:15 <b_jonas> http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~fischer/ says there's a revision of Crafting a Compiler
20:56:15 <b_jonas> why are all these books about compilers? I just want to parse language, I don't want to write a compiler
20:56:31 <zzo38> The book mentions parsing too, not only compiler
20:58:47 <Bike> most compiler books spend like half their time on parsing
20:58:50 <Bike> it's quite mysterious to me.
20:58:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JArcane * New user account
21:00:55 <b_jonas> what? isn't the wiki still read-only?
21:01:10 <J_Arcane> I have no idea, I haven't submitted a page yet.
21:01:10 <fizzie> It's been back for almost two days already.
21:01:26 <fizzie> b_jonas: If you want a real classic, there's always http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Parsing-Translation-Compiling-Volume/dp/0139145567/
21:01:39 <b_jonas> fizzie: thanks, let me check that
21:02:15 <fizzie> It's also a compiler book, but it's a multi-volume set and the first volume at least claims (based on the name) to be about parsing only.
21:03:20 <b_jonas> ok, wait, what were the languages I wanted to mention on the wiki? Endo's DNA from a previous ICFP contest, and what was the other one?
21:03:52 <b_jonas> and maybe a stub for this year's ICFPc
21:04:06 <fizzie> (It's by some of the same people as the Dragon Books, so maybe it's redundant, who knows.)
21:04:17 <b_jonas> fizzie: sure, those people have lots of books
21:04:29 <b_jonas> the book I mentioned first are by them too, isn't it?
21:05:17 <fizzie> I guess there's some overlap there too, yes.
21:05:37 <b_jonas> wasn't there one more thing I wanted to add?
21:10:33 <b_jonas> what's the best name for that language? "Fuun DNA"? Fuun is the species apparently
21:10:55 <b_jonas> should I split it to two pages, "Fuun DNA" and "Fuun RNA"?
21:11:08 <Bike> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNsToEecC_M
21:11:46 <fizzie> @tell oerjan I don't know why, but it seems that sometimes the actual address record can have a TTL of three (3) days.
21:12:51 <fizzie> @tell oerjan ...now I'm not saying I'm certain, but this "$TTL 3D" line might have something to do with it...
21:13:34 <fizzie> @tell oerjan Long story short, the DNS propagation can take up to three days in the worst case. BAD LUCK.
21:14:05 <fizzie> I think perhaps I should drop that down to a more reasonable one day.
21:14:33 <fizzie> Or perhaps even 12 hours or something.
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21:21:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:B jonas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40175&oldid=39207 * B jonas * (+208) add more todo
21:25:32 <b_jonas> fizzie: Alfred V. Aho, Jeffrey D. Ullman, The theory of parsing, translation, and compiling, 1972. this is actually available
21:25:40 <b_jonas> if it's a classic, this might be what I should look at
21:26:35 <b_jonas> so first volume of that? ok
21:29:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[VIOLET]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40176 * JArcane * (+2936) Created page with " ''VIOLET'' (Verbose Interactive Operating Language for Educational Terminals) is an interpreted programming language alleged to have been the custom onboard language develope..."
21:30:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40177&oldid=40171 * JArcane * (+13) /* V */
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21:36:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[VIOLET]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40178&oldid=40176 * JArcane * (+2)
21:36:27 <fizzie> b_jonas: It's not so much a classic that I'd have read it. From the looks of it, it's quite a theory-oriented approach.
21:39:19 <lambdabot> fizzie said 27m 32s ago: I don't know why, but it seems that sometimes the actual address record can have a TTL of three (3) days.
21:39:19 <lambdabot> fizzie said 26m 27s ago: ...now I'm not saying I'm certain, but this "$TTL 3D" line might have something to do with it...
21:39:19 <lambdabot> fizzie said 25m 44s ago: Long story short, the DNS propagation can take up to three days in the worst case. BAD LUCK.
21:39:30 <oerjan> I KNEW IT, IT WAS ALL YOUR FAULT
21:43:35 <fizzie> It wioll haven be three days real soon now!
21:47:21 <fizzie> (Verb tense co-opted from http://sprunge.us/KOdb)
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21:58:46 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail - the Aztec god of consecutive numbers
21:59:59 <b_jonas> thanks everyone for the book recommendations
22:04:52 * oerjan points out http://onnea.ru/
22:05:01 <oerjan> i.e. it may be a company name.
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22:12:27 <Melvar> ( let x = Just 1 in do [1,2,3] !! !x
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22:28:07 <Taneb> I wanted to get an early night but I can't sleep
22:29:53 <b_jonas> Taneb: work on the icfp contest task then
22:40:52 <oerjan> ( let x = Just 1; y = Just 2 in do !x + !y + 3
22:40:53 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Num (Maybe b)
22:41:31 <oerjan> ( let x = Just 1; y = Just 2 in do 3 + !x
22:41:31 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Num (Maybe b)
22:42:07 <idris-bot> BotPrelude.(!!) : List a -> Nat -> Maybe a
22:42:32 <oerjan> ( let x = Just 1 in !x
22:42:33 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Num (Maybe b)
22:43:19 <oerjan> ( let x = Just () in !x
22:43:20 <idris-bot> (input):1:22:When elaborating an application of function Prelude.Monad.>>=:
22:43:50 <idris-bot> When elaborating an application of constructor __infer:
22:43:50 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate name: Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>=
22:44:31 <oerjan> idris is _so_ anti-play-around
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22:57:36 <Melvar> ( let x = Just 1; y = Just 2 in do return (!x + !y + 3)
22:57:36 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Num (Fin m)
22:58:26 <Melvar> ( let x = Just 1; y = Just 2 in do return (!x + !y + the Integer 3)
23:00:21 -!- ajf has joined.
23:00:26 <ajf> Rate my esolang: http://esolangs.org/wiki/DevPerc
23:00:33 <ajf> I’m prouder of this than I ought to be
23:01:48 <oerjan> and my dns to the wiki still hasn't updated.
23:02:09 <oerjan> although the name reminds me of Deviating Percolator
23:02:35 <oerjan> oh it's not a new page
23:02:48 <ajf> You knew its name? :D
23:02:56 <Melvar> oerjan: Bang bindings have to show up in a context-valued expression (Maybe in this case). “!x + !y + 3 : Maybe A” would imply “3 : Maybe A” and “x, y : Maybe (Maybe A)”.
23:02:59 <ajf> That makes me happy somehow
23:03:11 <ajf> oerjan: It’s a terrible name derived from thesaurusitis
23:04:22 <ajf> I suppose it has a certain charm…
23:04:24 <Taneb> More appropriate name than Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
23:04:37 <ajf> Also, the double-indirection of everything makes my head hurt if I try to code in it
23:04:43 <oerjan> Taneb: oh i'm not sure i'd go _that_ far
23:04:43 <elliott> I remember both that language and you.
23:05:14 <Taneb> oerjan, I didn't say /better/
23:05:21 <Taneb> Only more appropriate
23:05:39 <ajf> It’s a language in which there are 26 registers, A-Z, initialized at start with the ASCII chars A-Z. The source code is read as if it is made up of the characters in the named registers.
23:06:02 <Taneb> The most appropriate name for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download I can think of is "LAMBDA", which is kind of sucky
23:06:06 <ajf> So if I set A to the ASCII value of B, “FOOBAR” is read as “FOOBBR"
23:06:22 <olsner> Taneb: how is the current name not the most appropriate?
23:06:45 <Taneb> olsner, because it is not at all indicative of the features of the language
23:06:54 <Taneb> Then again, neither is, say, "C"
23:07:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep).
23:07:46 <zzo38> Taneb: If "LAMBDA" is "kind of sucky", then it would be why you have to call it "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" instead (which also isn't very good, but it is there)
23:08:11 <ajf> I wonder if you could write useful programs in DevPerc by setting up a two-way pipe with sh
23:08:23 <shachaf> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is a great name
23:08:34 <Taneb> zzo38, it is called Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download because Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is its name
23:09:13 <ajf> I know, I should write a Nil interpreter in DevPerc
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23:09:50 <Taneb> I should try again to sleep
23:10:14 <oerjan> Taneb: that's a wholly insufficient reason, just ask any aged aged man
23:11:28 <ajf> If I take Lisp and implement it with JSON’s syntax, is it just awkward syntax, or could it be considered esoteric?
23:11:31 <boily> Taneb: retanelle. just lay on a mattress and stare at the ceiling through your eyelids.
23:11:46 <boily> oerjan: aged aged?
23:11:52 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 8h 32m 58s ago: I got an email saying "typo for antediluvian?" with a broken link to github. Does this have to do with you?
23:11:52 <lambdabot> shachaf said 5h 35m 27s ago: Oh, it's a private repository, so it shows up as 404.
23:11:52 <Taneb> boily, I try that but my neck hurts
23:13:05 <boily> shachaf: yes, it has to do with me, but if you received the email that means you have access to the repo. last time I checked you were among the cocoonspirators hth
23:13:34 <shachaf> But I wasn't logged in to github.
23:13:39 <shachaf> In fact I was doubly logged out.
23:13:56 <boily> you are a strange person.
23:14:35 <boily> oerjan: ifgi. tdh. t.
23:16:19 <oerjan> i thought we had a non-strange person in the channel but then i learned Vorpal works on cool robots
23:16:58 <shachaf> Surely there are nonstrangers in here.
23:17:14 <oerjan> maybe some of the lurkers.
23:17:45 <shachaf> boily: What's strange about me?
23:18:18 <boily> shachaf: you managed to be doubly logged out. that's anormal.
23:18:34 <oerjan> maybe shachaf has taken the red pill.
23:18:49 <shachaf> Oh. Well, I opened the link in an incognito window first.
23:19:04 <shachaf> But then I opened it in a regular window and it was still a 404.
23:19:58 <boily> ajf: are you strange?
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23:20:12 <ajf> boily: I am esoteric
23:21:59 <shachaf> copumpkin: hey, did you ever read that thing
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23:24:26 <oerjan> @tell fizzie <fizzie> I think perhaps I should drop that down to a more reasonable one day. <-- i vaguely sort of thought the idea was to reduce it when hosting is unstable.
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23:25:03 <oerjan> are we going to have a splitfest again
23:25:41 -!- metasepia has joined.
23:25:59 <boily> int-e: LAMBDABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!
23:26:10 <oerjan> or possibly just ole lambda
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23:30:59 <shachaf> Oh, lambdabot isn't back in this channel yet.
23:31:14 <shachaf> I guess you don't rejoin all the channels at the same time.
23:31:22 <boily> yup, the netsplit has netsplat.
23:31:30 <boily> (or is it netsplut?)
23:31:32 <oerjan> indeed, lambdabot takes its time
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23:35:26 <oerjan> only yiyus got through unscathed
23:52:23 <zzo38> I should try to make more Pokemon Card puzzle, or other people should too, but, nobody (other than myself) has yet solved my most recent one.
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