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01:26:37 <shachaf> what's with the whole lord chamberlain theatre censorship thing
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02:39:46 <zzo38> My brother has made a suggestion having to do with the icons for card types of Aberration Hater Card Game.
02:40:15 <zzo38> Which is to use the initial letter but decorate it according to what the full card type is.
02:50:10 <oerjan> ah, dear old loopy, which supports no keyboard shortcuts at all ;_;
02:52:30 <oerjan> maybe it's a side effect of all the non-rectangular topologies its supports.
02:54:11 <oerjan> basically, totally unusable with my new laptop's touchpad.
02:58:35 <oerjan> one of the puzzles in simon tatham's collection
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03:01:19 * oerjan finished a game anyhow
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04:16:06 <zzo38> Do you think this is OK idea for icons of Aberration Hater Card Game, or are there should be the better way?
04:24:03 <zzo38> How do you buy some AY-3-8910?
04:27:50 <zzo38> I didn't quite expect you to
04:27:59 <zzo38> Because first some things have to be designed of it
04:28:06 <zzo38> Such as this things.
04:31:00 <zzo38> Do you know what the card types are?
04:31:14 <shachaf> I don't know anything about this game.
04:32:47 <zzo38> Then you should guess! I already gave you some strange kind of hint a little bit today!
04:38:41 <zzo38> So that you can learn, I suppose. Don't you know some things, such that it is card game, or you don't know that too?
05:11:16 <quintopia> oerjan: loopy is quite a nice puzzle. took me almost 30 minutes just to solve an easy one!
05:12:10 <quintopia> zzo38: once you finish designing it, i will surely give it a look. unfortunately, i have nothing to say about it at present.
05:14:03 <quintopia> oh "Keen" seems to be similar to Kakuro. I think I've seen one like this before on paper.
05:18:39 <oerjan> yeah several of the puzzle have "no trademarks harmed in this collection" names
05:20:31 <oerjan> quintopia: one nice thing about loopy is that many of the different network types have a different flavor in how you solve them
05:21:48 <quintopia> For instance, the 1x1 grid containing only the clue "4"
05:22:57 <oerjan> i don't think that one is in the type menu
05:24:57 <oerjan> hm it's added several new types since my old laptop too
05:34:53 <oerjan> i can certainly understand why it's hard to make a keyboard interface for it.
05:39:58 <quintopia> oerjan: i sure wish there were more visual clues in this game. like changing the colors of numbers whose condition hasn't yet been met, or just outright making the lines adjacent to zeros unclickable.
05:43:16 <oerjan> well the zeros turn red if you try
05:43:35 <quintopia> yes, but i'd rather the edges next to them just be missing
05:43:53 <oerjan> also, you know you can remove edges as well as mark them
05:48:59 <quintopia> how hard would it be to pre-right-click all the zero edges for me :P
05:55:16 <oerjan> i do tend to start with that myself
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06:11:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: tell more about that card game
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06:25:43 <quintopia> yeah the most annoying part is when you close the curve and it doesn't flash and you have to manually go through and check each number to see if it hasn't been covered
06:27:12 <quintopia> maybe if they turned green once they were covered
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06:49:39 <quintopia> holy crap 10x10 triangle took me over an hour
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06:56:48 <zzo38> b_jonas: O, sorry I was downstairs because it is too hot here, but OK I tell you a bit.
06:57:11 <quintopia> Imgur says: " Be forewarned, time has been known to quicken in this realm."
06:57:39 <zzo38> There are five card types: ORDINARY MONSTER ATTACHMENT FIELD CLASS
06:58:54 <zzo38> quintopia: Definition of what?
07:00:10 <zzo38> The idea my brother has had is for example the FIELD type icon is "F" with glass underneath, and ORDINARY type icon has just "O" in a plain font.
07:02:20 <zzo38> As well as "A" with lines bend like paperclips, and "M" with an eye on it.
07:14:18 <zzo38> quicken v.t. to accelerate (as in to quicken one's pace); to restore to life (as in to quicken the dead); to stimulate and rouse; v.i. to become faster; to reach the stage in pregnancy when the fetal movement is perceptible.
07:14:39 <zzo38> That doesn't seem to help much, I suppose.
07:15:17 <quintopia> it's probably the pregnancy one. definitely that.
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07:50:13 <mroman> shouldn't there be some clever way to get O(log n) for access by index in linked lists?
07:50:45 <mroman> (Obviously you can get O(1) index access if you keep a table of node pointers)
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07:51:21 <mroman> which requires O(n) memory overhead
07:52:17 <shachaf> Well, for some data structure that isn't just a linked list, sure.
07:52:57 <mroman> I guess technically you could do it tree-like
07:53:02 <myname> do people actually use skip lists?
07:53:04 <mroman> with a listed-link interface
07:54:49 <mroman> http://codepad.org/dcoOVZpe <- like that
07:56:00 <mroman> you know where it is because
07:56:06 <mroman> even numbers are always left
07:56:35 <mroman> I guess that should be enough to reconstruct the path
07:57:35 <mroman> obviously the number of leaves in each "floor" is 2^n
07:59:01 <mroman> I think it should be possible to express the position as x,y coordinates
07:59:40 <mroman> 5 is >4 & <8 so it's y coordinate is 3.
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08:00:46 <mroman> x coordinate is pretty easy too
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08:00:59 <mroman> then you just need an algorithm that finds a path to that coordinate :)
08:05:03 <mroman> Just trying out new things
08:05:25 <mroman> You just need to divide the index continously by 2
08:05:53 <mroman> which means O(log n) index access isn't that hard to do
08:05:58 <myname> bitshifting saved the world again
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08:27:04 <ais523_> yay, I succeeded in installing and registering VS2010
08:27:20 <mroman> although removing something from that tree-list isn't very cool
08:27:48 <fizzie> ais523_: You can put it in your CV.
08:27:56 <fizzie> "Succesfully installed VS2010."
08:28:07 <mroman> Successfully offline installed VS2010
08:28:27 <mroman> ais523_: you registered it without internet connection?
08:28:29 <ais523_> note I haven't checked that it actually works yet
08:28:42 <ais523_> mroman: I used /this/ connection, the underscorey one, to do the registration
08:28:50 <ais523_> because it's web-based and doesn't communicate directly with VS at all
08:29:07 <ais523_> so I just mentally replaced "copy-and-paste" with "retype" in the instructions
08:30:20 <mroman> I thought you meant that VS itself checks some online database
08:30:31 <mroman> i.e. verifies the code over dem internetz
08:30:35 <ais523_> this is the same method that's meant to work for VS2012, and that I have successfully used with VS2012 before, only the VS2012 registration form doesn't work ("Submit" button does nothing, and editing it to just submit anyway refreshes the page)
08:30:42 <ais523_> mroman: nah, it's all retyping
08:30:48 <ais523_> VS2013 does indeed do what you say
08:30:52 <ais523_> which is why I can't use it
08:30:56 <mroman> so it does a local "checksum" check
08:31:34 <ais523_> this is similar to the way I originally activated Windows itself
08:31:54 <ais523_> only that has "type the numbers into a phone" as the fallback for if it can't make a connection directly
08:32:22 <mroman> Can you still activate Windows 8 via phone?
08:32:33 <ais523_> strangely enough, the activation survived a complete reinstall
08:33:21 <ais523_> also strangely and possibly connected, there is a small partition on the system which Windows won't acknowledge the existence of and Linux can't determine the format of
08:33:41 <mroman> Sounds like OEM recovery partition or something like that
08:33:55 <mroman> My dell has a backup partition
08:34:08 <ais523_> no; a) it's too small, b) I know where the OEM recovery partition is (and both Windows and Linux can both determine its existence, and report on its format)
08:34:30 <ais523_> myname: no, I found /that/ partition too
08:34:48 <ais523_> had to, in fact, this is related to my adventures over the last few days
08:34:49 <mroman> Are those partitions actually on the same disk?
08:34:56 <ais523_> there is only the one disk
08:35:00 <ais523_> which currently has 8 partitions
08:35:09 <mroman> if something wrecks your system hard
08:35:23 <mroman> i.e lets say some virus that wastes your partition table
08:35:34 <ais523_> Windows main, Windows recovery, OEM recovery, EFI, suspicious tiny partition, Linux /, Linux /home, Linux swap
08:35:46 <ais523_> mroman: then the backups are elsewhere, and the system itself is obviously ruined
08:35:59 <ais523_> at least, up to the complete-wipe-and-reinstall point
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08:36:54 <ais523_> I don't see how a second physical disk would help much with this
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08:39:17 <ais523_> actually, #1 thing that annoys me about the Windows interface and can't easily be turned off: you can't right-click on files directly in Explorer
08:39:26 <ais523_> right-clicking affects the selected file, not what you clicked on
08:39:35 <ais523_> so you first have to left-click to select it, then right-click it to open the context menu
08:41:37 <mroman> obviously the way to go is a ROM-OS
08:41:48 <mroman> that way nothing can wreck it :)
08:42:22 <myname> yeah, it just needs to be perfect and has drivers for everything ever built
08:42:49 <fizzie> Yeah, Windows has that thing.
08:42:52 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/QaMd #3 here.
08:43:17 <ais523_> btw, EFI itself actually seems mostly well designed, apart from some questionable decisions about file formats
08:43:26 <ais523_> OTOH, it is normally horrendously misconfigured
08:43:37 <ais523_> and most EFI systems do not allow the user to configure them correctly
08:44:28 <fizzie> In fact, #1 is also some sort of a Windows recovery thing.
08:45:06 <mroman> You can't right-click?
08:45:25 <ais523_> mroman: you can, but you have to left-click first
08:46:02 <ais523_> mroman: if you open up a directory in Explorer (the default directory viewing thing), then right-click on a file
08:46:06 <ais523_> you will get the context menu for the directory
08:46:15 <b_jonas> ais523_: on the partition, could it contain boot loader early stage data?
08:46:32 <ais523_> b_jonas: no, that's what the EFI partition is for
08:46:43 <b_jonas> ais523_: for a past boot loader you're no longer using?
08:46:55 <ais523_> you learn a lot about this sort of thing if you have to manually configure a bootloader without docs
08:47:09 <mroman> what version of windows are you on?
08:47:16 <ais523_> on an EFI system, bootloaders must run from a FAT32 partition, and the suspicious partition is not FAT32
08:47:22 <ais523_> it's in no format Linux recognises
08:47:37 <mroman> If I right-click on a file, I get the context menu of that file
08:47:40 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/SWej -- whoa, 24 megs.
08:47:42 <b_jonas> sure, I do that too, but do it only with grub-legacy (and isolinux, in the past, loadlin). I see no reason to change to grub2.
08:47:52 <mroman> even if I left-click-selected a subdirectory in that directory
08:48:05 <b_jonas> ais523_: oh, it's an EFI system?
08:48:21 <mroman> You mean explorer.exe?
08:48:29 <mroman> not some metro-style explorer thingy?
08:48:39 <ais523_> mroman: yes, this is the desktop
08:48:40 <b_jonas> ais523_: make backups, try to write all-zero to the partition, reboot, see what breaks?
08:48:42 <ais523_> b_jonas: all Windows 8 systems are EFI
08:48:46 <mroman> Your explorer is broken
08:49:03 <mroman> I can't remember any Windows version where right-clicking behaves the way you describe it to me o_O
08:49:06 <ais523_> b_jonas: I'd rather not do that, given how much trouble I'd gone to to get this working
08:49:24 <b_jonas> ais523_: I assume you've looked at the partition raw data, right?
08:49:27 <mroman> right-clicking on a file chances selection
08:49:31 <ais523_> b_jonas: no, because I'm not that curious
08:49:44 <mroman> I can even make a video of it if you want
08:49:45 <ais523_> mroman: huh, if I have a different file selected
08:49:53 <ais523_> then right-clicking on some other file does change the selection
08:50:06 <ais523_> in fact it's started working as I expect now
08:50:24 <b_jonas> ais523_: huh... looking at a hexdump is around the first thing I'd have done
08:50:26 <mroman> of course it changes the selection
08:50:43 <mroman> otherwise something is really broken
08:50:49 <b_jonas> it could even be an unused all-zero partition someone's created at some point but never used
08:50:51 <fizzie> You don't have to look at a hexdump because other people have done it already: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Reserved_Partition
08:50:53 <mroman> or maybe it's a folder option of windows
08:50:57 <mroman> but it's not the normcase
08:51:02 <ais523_> mroman: actually, it seems to work as you describe, except when I just opened the folder
08:51:06 <ais523_> in which case it works as I described
08:51:13 <b_jonas> what size is the small partition?
08:51:33 <mroman> ais523_: I can't reproduce that :)
08:51:56 <ais523_> 128 MB seems reasonable given the circumstances
08:52:38 <fizzie> b_jonas: It's 32 MB for disks less than 16 gigs.
08:57:11 <ais523_> hmm, it currently seems about 50:50 whether I shut down Windows 8.1 using the Settings charm, or using the context menu on the start button
08:57:35 <ais523_> probably depends on whether I've been doing something Windows 8-specific recently
09:09:01 <ais523_> one thing that amused me during the troubleshooting was to see Windows' opinion of the Linux bootloader
09:09:12 <ais523_> it interpreted it as an unspecified firmware application
09:09:18 <ais523_> which I guess, from Windows' point of view, it is
09:20:01 <b_jonas> what's the "Settings charm"?
09:21:26 <ais523_> basically, Windows 8 has a very global main menu
09:21:40 <ais523_> power off is under "settings" for some reason
09:21:57 <ais523_> you access the charms menu by moving your mouse to the top-right corner, then down the edge
09:31:07 <fizzie> ais523_: I didn't know that the context menu on the start button has that option.
09:31:22 <fizzie> Not that I'm certain I'll remember to use that.
09:31:33 <ais523_> fizzie: I remember when I was buying this computer
09:31:39 <fizzie> (Also I access the charms menu by going to the bottom-right corner, and then moving up a little.)
09:31:45 <ais523_> I showed the start button context menu to the salesman, who was impressed
09:31:53 <ais523_> it's also there in Windows 8, which doesn't even have a start button
09:31:59 <ais523_> you have to right-click the bottomleftmost pixel of the screen
09:32:08 <fizzie> I did learn about the Win-x shortcut, which has been helpful.
09:32:14 <quintopia> i didn't even realize the start button had a context menu. that's a lot of useful options
09:32:27 <ais523_> quintopia: hardly anyone does, it seems
09:32:48 <mroman> Windows 8.1 doesn't have a start button either
09:32:57 <mroman> but it just switches to metro
09:33:30 <mroman> I didn't know that it had a context menu
09:33:49 <ais523_> mroman: I was careful to say "start button", not "start menu"
09:33:54 <ais523_> and it doesn't switch to metro, it opens the start screen
09:34:03 <ais523_> which is kind-of ugly and badly designed, but not itself a metro program
09:34:14 <ais523_> just it's designed to look like a metro program, rather than like a desktop program
09:34:26 <mroman> it's even worse when apps look like metro-style
09:34:31 <mroman> but are actually regular desktop programs
09:35:10 <b_jonas> what, like visual studio? or more like that?
09:35:33 <ais523_> visual studio doesn't look metro at all
09:35:43 <mroman> or maybe that just happens when you open a metro program from the taskbar shortcut
09:36:10 <ais523_> mroman: you can distinguish by clicking the top-left corner
09:36:12 <mroman> the "open with" dialogue in 8.1
09:36:28 <ais523_> that goes back to the previous app you were using; the entire desktop and everything on it counts as one app
09:36:39 <mroman> I think "open with" is a metro-style dialoge
09:36:42 <mroman> no close button nothing
09:37:38 <quintopia> ais523_: have you heard that biologists have recently proved Turing's theory about formation of fingers in embryos?
09:37:38 <fizzie> http://netcrew.asm.fi/ I like graphs where you can see cycles like that.
09:37:49 <ais523_> quintopia: I didn't know Turing theorized that
09:38:10 <quintopia> http://esciencenews.com/articles/2014/08/01/a.mathematical.theory.proposed.alan.turing.1952.can.explain.formation.fingers
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10:42:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunk]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40231&oldid=40189 * Quintopia * (+0) misplaced parens
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12:01:53 <mroman> my phone doesn't have enough memory to update whatsapp
12:05:34 <mroman> you can't install whatsapp on the sd card
12:15:33 <TieSoul> damn, the code for my new arbitrary-dimension language is around the most complicated code I've ever written :P
12:16:20 <TieSoul> mostly because I want it to be compact. Otherwise I could probably do it much less complicatedly
12:18:13 <Melvar> Was this arbitrary-dimension code, stack data?
12:18:25 <myname> you can if you really want to
12:24:06 <TieSoul> Well anyway, it's the most complicated code I've written because I haven't been programming for a very long time :P
12:24:16 <TieSoul> I started less than a year ago
12:28:04 <Melvar> No, but you didn’t answer my question.
12:28:37 <TieSoul> I don't get your question :S
12:29:34 <Melvar> Whether the language has arbitrary-dimensional code while using a stack for runtime storage.
12:31:56 <Melvar> Unless you have something particularly arcane, the bounding box of the instructions should suffice to hold them.
12:38:54 <TieSoul> I really don't get what you're saying
13:15:53 <mroman> arbitrary-dimensional like 2D-languages?
13:16:52 <mroman> is there a 3D language whose 2D-subset isn't turing complete?
13:17:56 <mroman> obviously there are 2D languages whose 1D subset isn't turing complete
13:19:19 <mroman> dumb question. I can construct one
13:19:36 <mroman> just make conditional branches jump upwards in Z direction
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13:56:01 <myname> mroman: i'll just drop y then
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14:48:47 <vifino> Anyone got an brainfuck optimiser? I mean, +-+. becomes +.
14:52:02 <elliott> most compilers have one built in, though often not in a form that trivially converts back to BF
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17:53:52 <zzo38> I read this article in Science magazine vol.323 that has the suggestion of a replacement of the patent system with a "markets system", which is said to perform better, and avoids monopoly rights and other problems (including ones they cause, such as suboptimal production).
18:01:37 <zzo38> As far as I can tell, the patent system has only one advantage, which is that the document is posted into the patent archives, but is in all other ways inferior. (This is not mentioned in the cited article.) But maybe it can be corrected by having a markets system with archives.
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18:09:24 <int-e> I just can't wait for high frequency IP trades.
18:10:06 <TieSoul> alright, I've completed my arbitrary-dimensional language.
18:11:46 <int-e> (hmm, actually, L^*)
18:13:08 <int-e> zzo38: is it about IPXI (cf. http://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2014/01/article_0005.html) or something else?
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18:15:15 <zzo38> I don't know that one actually, but this article is by Debrah Meloso, Jernej Copic, and Peter Bossaerts, and at the end in the reference it says "10.1126/science.1158624"
18:16:55 <zzo38> It also mentions http://jmarkets.ssel.caltech.edu/ which might have the information?
18:21:50 <zzo38> System in this article has no monopoly since the solutions are all in the public domain. If more than one person find it, whoever has a better way will get paid more usually, therefore there is the incentive to make improvement and therefore better production.
18:22:30 <int-e> ok, I've got the 2009 paper.
18:23:11 <int-e> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/323/5919/1335.full.pdf <-- wants registration, or an institution-wide subscription, I used the latter.
18:28:49 <zzo38> It does say that this new system might not be effective in some circumstances, but probably that can be fixed too I suppose.
18:35:28 <TieSoul> http://bpaste.net/raw/KDtQCWR8A5M1TRqRWMY2/ < Specification (not really, but not sure what to call it otherwise) for my new language.
18:36:14 <zzo38> TieSoul: Probably you should make the post in esolang wiki; if you don't know what to call it yet you could make a subpage of your user page, and then move it once you have the proper name of it.
18:36:34 <coppro> what is "one two-dimensional coordinate higher"?
18:36:43 <coppro> what does this mean in one-dimensional or three-dimensional space?
18:37:10 <TieSoul> It says that it does not apply in one-dimensional space iirc
18:37:51 <TieSoul> 2D coord of one line is 1, one higher is 2.
18:38:14 <TieSoul> it means basically that the line succeeds the previous in 2D space.
18:38:17 <coppro> { and } are incorrectly specified
18:38:38 <coppro> you specify that the interpreter will wrap, but you don't have bounds
18:38:57 <TieSoul> Keep in mind this is not the final specification
18:39:33 <coppro> what is the difference between buffered and non-buffered input?
18:40:17 <TieSoul> the storage is a "right-unbounded one-dimensional array" as specified above.
18:40:47 <coppro> The way you handle deltas, in particular the V instruction, is odd and smells of trying to be too funge-like without actually being funge-like
18:41:17 <TieSoul> I'll be sure to be much more detailed in the final specification. And I tried to not let myself be influenced by Funge too much.
18:42:01 <coppro> V is weird because it's the only one that can set a vector other than a standard basis vector or its negation
18:42:25 <coppro> and using any other instruction afterwards to change the IP is going to reset it to a standard basis/negation
18:42:30 <int-e> zzo38: oh my what a ludicrous paper. they set up a hilarious experiment where traded goods directly correspond to the modeled invention (so by watching the transactions, one can derive information about the best solution, which leads to more discoveries of that same "invention"), and then pretend that this somehow applies transfers to real inventions without any justification whatsoever.
18:42:53 <int-e> (and yes, jMarkets is related)
18:42:56 <coppro> Also, what does an input line specification actually do?
18:43:14 <coppro> is the list of coordinate a starting place or a delta? Where is the other determined? What happens if there's overlap?
18:44:28 <TieSoul> it's the starting 2+D coordinates of the line.
18:44:57 <TieSoul> the delta is [1, 0, 0...] at the start
18:45:07 <TieSoul> the starting point is always [0, 0, 0...]
18:45:22 <TieSoul> Overlap means the last line gets used.
18:45:28 <int-e> zzo38: It is an interesting experiment that they performed ... but I have NO idea what it models. All the claims that this is related to innovation is pure speculation.
18:46:20 <TieSoul> All lines are padded to equal length.
18:46:35 <TieSoul> If a line is unspecified and the IP tries to move through it, it wraps.
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18:50:09 <TieSoul> Also, the sample program is wrong
18:50:22 <TieSoul> the third line should have 1,0,1 as its coordinates, not 0,0,1.
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19:29:23 <impomatic_> 4.7% of vintage computing items on eBay are described as "rare"
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19:45:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Threeifbywhiskey * New user account
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20:05:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braille]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40232&oldid=39023 * Threeifbywhiskey * (+118) Add link to C interpreter, remove Unimplemented category
20:07:01 <zzo38> int-e: Apparently it is similar to an older system which works even outside of experiments though, but I do not really know much about such older system and cannot say what exactly it is applicable to.
20:07:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braille]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40233&oldid=40232 * Threeifbywhiskey * (+6) Replace "Hello, world!" program with one that works
20:09:11 <Bike> oh hey, there's a comic called "How I Became a Pokémon Card".
20:09:26 <zzo38> Who is "I" refering to, here?
20:09:56 <Bike> How I Became a Pokémon Card is a manga created by Kagemaru Himeno, who is also an artist for the TCG. While the manga includes some reoccurring characters, each chapter is mainly a standalone story featuring one Pokémon, such as Dratini or Jolteon. At some point within each story an image of an actual Pokémon card is shown, the stories expand on the image that appears on the card and tells about what the Pokémon is doing in the ...
20:10:03 <Bike> ... picture or how it got there.
20:13:51 <vifino> Anyone with Ruby and brainfuck experience can help me fix my brainfuck parser? http://hastebin.com/izazegebem.rb
20:14:59 <Bike> why do you save the pointer? if it doesn't scope properly you're just going to overwrite w instead of p and it won't matter
20:15:04 <elliott> your wrapping condition is off-by-one, for one.
20:15:10 <elliott> but you haven't told us what problem you're having
20:15:31 <elliott> I guess it's off-by-one twice. so it's off by two
20:16:09 <shachaf> "-" is implemented with a +
20:16:24 <shachaf> > is identical to +, incrementing a[p] rather than p
20:16:25 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:18: parse error on input ‘,’
20:16:47 <elliott> I'm not sure "while foo do" is even the correct syntax.
20:17:19 <shachaf> I don't think the behavior of [ is correct.
20:17:21 <Bike> i don't know ruby so all the semicolons seem weird
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20:29:50 <vifino> Okay, new file http://hastebin.com/kamuzocika.rb
20:30:07 <vifino> A bit more descriptive, as in, shows my problem case
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20:36:22 <TieSoul> so I made a 99 bottles of beer program for my new language :P
20:37:45 <TieSoul> http://bpaste.net/raw/5ZoE59XwXfOkyOj6zb2n/ yay
20:38:06 <J_Arcane> I believe the classical order of test applications goes: "hello world," 99 bottles, factorial, an editor, email, a half-completed LISP.
20:38:21 <vifino> elliott: Know anything?
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20:40:08 <TieSoul> http://bpaste.net/raw/vAeiYiOjSN50Nu4w7dh3/ <fixed
20:40:14 <TieSoul> don't quite know what happened there
20:40:33 <elliott> vifino: I know some things.
20:40:51 <elliott> also, your wrap around cases are now off by three.
20:41:18 <elliott> you corrected the upper bound in the wrong direction :P
20:41:35 <elliott> it should be 256, not 254. and -1, not 0.
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20:42:35 <vifino> Thats the 'new' version: http://hastebin.com/getinuvovo.rb
20:44:17 <TieSoul> the w variable isn't needed anymore in the when "[".
20:44:34 <TieSoul> just a small thing I immediately noticed :P
20:46:02 <TieSoul> seems pretty similar to Python.
20:46:26 <elliott> I don't know what's wrong with it. it looks okay to me now
20:47:03 <vifino> What comes out is just...
20:47:05 <vifino> "H\x02\t\t\f\xE6\x00\xA9\xAC\xA6\x9E
20:47:15 <vifino> ( escaped, because unicode )
20:47:15 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: "!!",
20:51:13 <Bike> http://pastebin.com/9khsXU37 suddenly, sgeo
20:53:08 <TieSoul> wait, there's a ##airconditioning?
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21:32:13 <vifino> http://hastebin.com/ekoyoranak.rb
21:35:09 <quintopia> i know not the ways of ruby. you should wait for boily. boily is the ruby.
21:35:47 <vifino> "boily is the ruby" 10/10
21:47:00 <elliott> you should be doing wrapping on increment and decrement.
21:47:11 <elliott> you're doing double wrapping.
21:47:20 <elliott> and the wrapping for + and - is wrong.
21:47:31 <elliott> str+="if a[p]<=0 then;a[p]-=1;end;"
21:47:37 <elliott> this one should be easier to spot the problem with than the other one.
21:49:15 <elliott> tell me what that code does in English
21:49:17 <Bike> negative numbers only, huh? avant-garde
21:49:20 <elliott> like, just read out the logic of that if.
21:49:30 <elliott> seriously, this is a bug you can solve yourself :p
21:49:43 <elliott> or not english. any language, really
21:50:00 <Bike> good language, lots of speakers, long literary tradition
21:50:02 <elliott> sure. spanish. I read all my code in spanish
21:50:35 <Bike> clearly the real problem with programming is that you don't have to think about what you're doing to translate.
21:50:37 <elliott> vifino: anyway, here is the wrapping logic: when a value would go below 0, it instead becomes 255. when it would go above 255, it instead goes below 0.
21:50:52 <elliott> your current code mismatches that in several ways, but implementing that logic directly should be simple enough
21:51:06 <elliott> you also don't need the (incorrect) wrapping logic for every instruction. just the ones that change the value (+ and -)
21:51:25 <elliott> (for instance, - on 0 should give 255, not 0)
21:51:54 <elliott> (+ on 255 should give 0 not 256 (though you immediately overwrite that), and especially + on 256 should not give 257 :))
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22:07:41 <Sgeo> I think I finally kind of understand arrows! http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2ccbnz/attempting_to_create_a_new_monad_dsl_need_help/
22:21:23 <FreeFull> Sgeo: Do you understand profunctors?
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22:34:44 <Sgeo> Um.... I should. I did at some point in the past, trying to port ekmett's lens suggestions into Racket
22:34:55 <Sgeo> p a b, (->) is a profunctor
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22:49:20 <oerjan> <quintopia> yeah the most annoying part is when you close the curve and it doesn't flash and you have to manually go through and check each number to see if it hasn't been covered <-- you know, i don't recall having that problem. * cackles evilly.
22:50:56 <oerjan> i think maybe it helps if you are careful with removing edges as well as marking them.
22:51:44 <oerjan> because when you do that, you _will_ get a red mark eventually on incorrect numbers.
22:54:00 <oerjan> so for me, the annoying part happens when the things i have marked/removed already seem to force an erroneous move, because then a lot of backtracking may be necessary to find the error.
22:55:23 <oerjan> and of course, the annoying but also exciting case when you can find no local information and need to do large global reasoning.
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23:02:34 <Melvar> oerjan: The one I like best is when one option would force the puzzle to be ambiguous, so by the guaranteed nonambiguity you can exclude it.
23:03:05 <oerjan> i very vaguely consider that cheating if i can avoid it
23:04:21 <oerjan> some puzzles in the collection either don't have unambiguity or have an option to turn it off.
23:07:48 <Melvar> I find it a fun metay argument.
23:09:07 <oerjan> i guess i sometimes use it to show that an option must be wrong, but still seeking for a different piece of evidence.
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23:11:03 <oerjan> damn i wanted to speed through 10 by 10 triangles and now i've made an error.
23:11:16 <boily> fungot: what is oerjan talking about?
23:11:17 <fungot> boily: the fnord is basically " looking ahead" to figure out how
23:12:21 * oerjan finds a fishy move he did
23:12:37 <oerjan> boily: simon tatham's loopy puzzle
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23:13:19 <boily> I'll have a look into that later.
23:20:13 * oerjan takes the chance on correcting a fishy mark rather than backtracking to it
23:22:19 * oerjan vaguely recall there was a pattern about 1's around a center
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23:29:22 <oerjan> (there was no patterns about 1's, i think that may have been another geometry.
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23:50:29 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523_> hmm, it currently seems about 50:50 whether I shut down Windows 8.1 using the Settings charm, or using the context menu on the start button <-- huh, i've been going via ctrl-alt-del
23:51:38 <boily> the best way to shut down a computer is by using your toes.
23:52:17 <oerjan> well _normally_ either the power off button or just shutting the lid does what i want, but when i want to reboot i use ctrl-alt-del
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23:53:04 <oerjan> actually reboot after installing updates, which does _not_ seem to be on the start menu right click
23:53:45 <oerjan> and i cannot find any power off in the settings charm
23:54:51 <boily> I need to find a medium-sized penguin plushie...
23:55:45 <oerjan> oh wait it's there, it's just marked "strøm", which means "power" but gives me the intuition of "power settings", not "power off". although the icon works the other way i guess.
23:56:44 <oerjan> (incidentally norwegian "strøm" can be translated as either "power" or "current", should confuse physicists)
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23:57:56 <oerjan> although it's not the correct word for being precise about the thing you measure in watts
23:58:08 <oerjan> (that would be "effekt" iirc)
23:59:42 <oerjan> oh and the physicists will also appreciate that no:kraft can be translated as either en:power (again) or en:force.