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00:35:15 <HackEgo> pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion
00:35:36 <shachaf> the deluxe subscribers have already been notified, naturally
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01:13:44 <quintopia> why couldn't a whistle and a bassoon get along harmoniously?
01:15:37 <Bike> historical racial attitudes formerly encouraged by a colonial power for the sake of simplifying their hegemony
01:17:03 <pikhq> Jesus christ this city's going insane.
01:21:37 <quintopia> insane! this city's going jesus christ
01:23:32 <pikhq> Oh, sure. St Louis is on its third day of riots triggered by a police officer shooting a black kid in the back.
01:23:51 <elliott> oh. I had no idea where you lived.
01:23:54 <elliott> I thought you were in colorado.
01:23:59 <pikhq> I moved a year ago.
01:24:35 <pikhq> But yeah. I swear, did someone open a portal to 1965 or something?
01:24:44 <elliott> daresay the shooting is more the thing than the protests
01:25:06 <pikhq> The police response to the protests is also quite 1965 though.
01:25:21 <pikhq> I was unaware that sniper rifles had a significant role in crowd control.
01:25:30 <pikhq> Nor that media blackouts or no fly zones did.
01:25:47 <pikhq> Apparently. Non-lethal rounds are designed for shotguns.
01:26:19 <Bike> sheesh, i've only been hearing about ferguson, it's extended to saint louis?
01:26:34 <pikhq> Ferguson is essentially Saint Louis.
01:26:35 <elliott> you know that cops shooting black kids is nothing really new or particularly 60s, right
01:27:00 <pikhq> elliott: Particular details are most similar to that period though.
01:27:02 <Bike> elliott: the 1960s is the usual go-to for violent responses to protests, possibly most famously at kentucky U.
01:27:18 <Bike> in united states culture, i mean.
01:28:08 <Bike> anyway how do i pre declare types in C or something. i have typedef struct cons { ... obj *car, *cdr; } cons; and then later typedef union obj { ... cons cons; } essentially
01:28:43 <elliott> Bike: yeah I just mean, the US does not really seem to be massively outside the status quo in any way here, sad as that is
01:29:05 <elliott> typedef struct cons cons; ... struct cons { ... }
01:29:07 <Bike> the problem is with obj, gcc doesn't know what an obj is yet
01:29:45 <Bike> ok. this syntax seems weird
01:29:54 <Bike> also weird is i realized i haven't heard any comparisons to rodney king yet
01:29:55 <elliott> it's quite simple really, though it is weird
01:30:05 <elliott> (struct TAG) and (enum TAG) are types defined by struct TAG { ... } and enum TAG { ... }
01:30:24 <elliott> (they jsut specify what that type is)
01:30:32 <elliott> you can refer to them before they're defined
01:30:43 <elliott> "typedef type typename;" makes typename an alias for type
01:31:37 <elliott> so typedef struct { ... } foo; works because it's making foo an alias for the anonymous struct type (struct { ... }). typedef struct tag1 { ... } tag2; is the same except the type is now a named struct, and it defines (struct tag1) to be that struct
01:31:39 <pikhq> Ooooohhhh goody. We've got militia nuts walking in now.
01:32:00 <pikhq> Maybe now the police's "equipped for invading Iran" stance makes sense.
01:32:05 <Bike> guns will solve this problem
01:32:15 <Bike> elliott: i'd kind of guessed that, but it's just... i dunno. weird
01:32:18 <pikhq> Guns solve all problems!
01:32:31 <elliott> it's a fairly orthogonal, weird part of the language. like most of C.
01:32:37 <Bike> in happier news, did you hear that the first woman to win a fields medal has been erased, as well as the first iranian
01:32:44 <pikhq> (FWIW I'm actually quite a ways away from the neighborhood where this is all going on, I'm just going "oh fucks' sake" at it)
01:33:05 <Bike> as usual i don't understand a thing she does
01:33:12 <elliott> Bike: our shadowy agenda is doing well. have you edited her out of all the photos yet
01:33:36 <Bike> her name is "Mirzakhani" which is just incredible sounding
01:33:40 <Bike> can't erase that
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01:34:02 <elliott> I can erase my being awake. bye
01:34:50 <quintopia> this is a bad year for violence eh
01:43:17 <Bike> now when i have "obj data[1];" in a struct i'm told that's incomplete
01:49:35 <zzo38> The type does have to be defined before it is used in that way, so make sure "obj" is defined.
01:49:35 <shachaf> Bike: You need to define obj before actually using it like that, presumably.
01:49:53 <shachaf> A pointer to obj is fine, but if you have an actual obj you need to know much memory it'll take.
01:50:12 <zzo38> (That is, define the actual structure, so that the size is known.)
01:50:31 <Bike> but it's a union i define after this struct because it includes that struct! argh
01:50:52 <zzo38> Then it would take an infinite amount of memory and it won't work
01:51:15 <zzo38> Since that code allocates one "obj" cell.
01:51:31 <shachaf> union obj; struct cons { struct obj *car, *cdr }; union obj { cons cons; };
01:53:23 <zzo38> If obj then also allocates data of type of this structure, then how can you know the proper amount of memory? It doesn't work!
01:53:56 <shachaf> "struct cons cons;", rather
01:54:10 <Bike> pointers work, not an array though
01:55:31 <shachaf> yes, because for an array you need to know what size it is
01:55:34 <Bike> oh ok the code i'm going off of has an array of union*, not union
01:55:39 <shachaf> what are you trying to do here
01:55:45 <Bike> that makes sense then
01:55:57 <shachaf> http://spl.smugmug.com/Humor/Lambdacats/i-XwKHSBM/2/O/boxed%20cat%20has%20a%20uniform%20representation.jpg
01:56:04 <Bike> indeed, there i go.
01:56:35 <zzo38> An array allocates the memory for its contents; declaring a pointer does not, it allocates memory for the address instead.
02:07:43 <Bike> right, yeah, i get what you're saying but i thought the code (which i know works) was doing an array anyway, so i was confused.
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03:27:00 <Bike> Can you declare multiple functions in one line? Like "void foo, bar(void);" say. that sounds amusing.
03:28:10 <shachaf> do you mean void foo(void), bar(void);
03:28:40 <shachaf> function declaration syntax is not different from variable declaration syntax
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03:29:23 <BlueProtoman> I know there's a whole community for esoteric programming languages...but is there one for esoteric file formats and/or protocols?
03:30:57 <Bike> shachaf: boring
03:32:17 <shachaf> BlueProtoman: whoa is your nick a split infinity thing
03:33:14 <shachaf> Bike: do you know the thing where you can call a function with (********f)(...)
03:33:41 <Bike> um, if you mean names referring to function pointers, yeah.
03:34:02 <shachaf> functions are distinct from function pointers
03:34:21 <shachaf> for example you can't take the sizeof a function
03:34:30 <Bike> hatred of C growing
03:34:38 <Bike> BlueProtoman: file formats have even more of a tendency to be undocumented crap than programming languages, so why bother
03:37:52 <BlueProtoman> Bike: It's not about being undocumented, it's about intentionally being weird
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03:38:20 <Bike> "crap", i said
03:38:34 <Bike> like, i know, let me find an example i ran into a few weeks ago
03:39:33 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Level_7 pretty much all of these
03:40:08 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arden_syntax#Arden_Syntax_Example this MLM is an example for reading data and writing a message;;
04:07:02 <Bike> https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/212/files#diff-9222e0f7e94c703c713184a57132c5fbL1183 i'm afraid
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05:23:56 <fizzie> The (*********f)() thing works because "[except sizeof, _Alignof, unary &] a function designator [expression with function type] with type 'function returning /type/' is converted to an expression that has type 'pointer to function returning /type/'."
05:24:00 <fizzie> So "f" has function type, but it's not one of the exceptions so it's converted to a pointer; "*f" again has function type, but it's still not one of the exceptions so ...; and so on up to (********f) which is also converted to a pointer to function, and used in a function call.
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05:33:07 <fizzie> Referring back to backlog, you can't refer to an enum with "enum foo" before declaring its constants.
05:33:09 <fizzie> Except as a GCC extension.
05:33:10 <fizzie> The rule that allows "typedef struct s s; struct s { ... };" is specific to structs and unions.
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07:33:21 <coppro> http://xkcd.com/1407/ I feel like there ought to be a bit with "no survivors" in it
07:49:58 <scoofy> there's always some survivors
07:50:57 <shachaf> presumably if there are no survivors from one hurricane then people in that area would remember a different one
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08:01:28 <FireFly> Now I'm wondering what the sweet spot of survival rate is for a hurricane to be remembered as the worst one
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08:46:32 <oerjan> <quintopia> this is a bad year for violence eh <-- no it's a good year for violence. it's a bad year for the victims.
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10:10:44 <HackEgo> olist (960): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
10:13:07 <shachaf> do you use rss or something fancy like that
10:13:22 <shachaf> you're not on olist yourself
10:13:45 <fizzie> I just do it as a public service; I'm using Feedly to feed myself.
10:14:10 <shachaf> isn't it annoying how you don't get the image embedded in the oots rss feed
10:14:55 <boily> that way you can't miss it.
10:15:06 <shachaf> someone told it was so i made an rss feed that has an image embedded
10:15:39 <fizzie> It's not *that* annoying. Though I do miss my previous RSS reader that you could configure (per feed) to "instead of showing the message, show the linked page".
10:16:04 <shachaf> i also made one for smbc-comics.com that shows the "votey" picture
10:16:18 <fizzie> There are a number of comics where the RSS feed is image-less, presumably due to ad reasons?
10:16:39 <shachaf> olist doesn't have ads on the comic page
10:16:48 <shachaf> i don't actually use rss myself, anyway
10:17:36 <fizzie> I used to have a Perl script that watched non-RSS-enabled webcomics, extracted the image (and possibly some metadata like titles or whatnot) and made a composite feed.
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13:27:11 <fizzie> Fun perl fact: "1 + rand" is not the same at all as "rand + 1".
13:31:19 <Deewiant> Warning: Use of "rand" without parentheses is ambiguous
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13:33:15 <fizzie> Oh, there's a warning. Handy.
13:33:33 <fizzie> (I didn't try this fact, I just picked it from #perl.)
13:34:36 <int-e> `` perl -e 'print rand+1," ",1+rand'
13:34:37 <HackEgo> Warning: Use of "rand" without parentheses is ambiguous at -e line 1. \ 0.504177718962641 1.73521801721969
13:35:17 <fizzie> It gets parsed as rand(+1).
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14:16:07 <elliott> fizzie: doesn't that apply to anything with a prototype or whatever?
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14:35:45 <elliott> fizzie: I meant union, not enum, yeah, sorry
14:35:51 <elliott> though I didn't know you can't actually do that
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19:51:49 <quintopia> hi TieSoul what are you working on today
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21:15:08 <fizzie> Freenode's a-breaking.
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22:49:48 <Sgeo> Why did HackEgo not ping me?
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22:50:08 <Sgeo> My name's there, Quassel just decided it wasn't a ping
22:50:12 <Sgeo> Unless it was before I left?
22:51:04 <boily> it's still alive, fsvo alive.
22:51:51 <oerjan> i assume he's referring to the `olist
22:52:29 <oerjan> does it ping you when i say Sgeo like this
22:52:53 <lambdabot> CYUL 132200Z 13014KT 8SM -RA SCT006 OVC045 18/18 A2968 RMK SF3SC5 SLP052 DENSITY ALT 800FT
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