00:03:45 <atriq> Also, aaaah I don't have access to a computer from which I can comfortably program
00:04:17 <elliott_> tromp: me too (programming is uncomfortable)
00:05:19 <atriq> Well, we can not program comfortably together, or something
00:06:13 <elliott_> atriq: I'm not ready for that kind of commitment
00:07:08 <atriq> elliott_: :( but I understand
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00:39:20 <boily> hellørjan. I'm now stuck with the makalösa manicken in my head, and discovered the Real Group by the same occasion the other day.
00:40:29 <boily> @tell impomatic congrats! your first real quote in the Infamous PDF!
00:41:25 <atriq> Does anyone have any advice on starting a nomic?
00:42:23 <atriq> TwoSwords: great, that's step 1 complete
00:42:38 <boily> atriq: shuffle a few decks of apples to apples and fluxx and CAH and bridge together, with a few tarot major arcana mixed in for good form.
00:44:22 <atriq> TwoSwords: great, I can do that
00:44:48 <int-e> boily: "impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database." <-- change "never" to "once" ;-)
00:46:25 <HackEgo> impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database.
00:47:17 <boily> int-e: ain't gonna happen. otoh, I can add an additional footnote hth
00:47:28 <atriq> int-e: if you think of something better feel free
00:47:41 <atriq> `? Taneb # is my main nick
00:47:41 <HackEgo> Taneb # is my main nick? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:47:47 <atriq> `run ? Taneb # is my main nick
00:47:48 <HackEgo> bash: a: command not found
00:47:51 <atriq> `run \? Taneb # is my main nick
00:47:51 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards, and five genders. (See also: tanebventions)
00:48:42 <boily> int-e: there, a footnote.
00:49:03 <TwoSwords> Nope. I remember seeing someones archived game (looked well kept) maybe a week ago. But I cannot remember the link.
00:49:26 <atriq> Apache Wave would be a great tool for Nomic
00:49:36 <atriq> Apache Wave would be great if anyone used it :(
00:50:11 <atriq> I miss google wave :(
00:50:35 <atriq> int-e: thanks, but it's not the same
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00:51:15 <boily> and that reveals that some smartfungot out there uses the google /nick éhontément.
00:51:16 <fungot> boily: look at everything2.com at the toplevel? you're just looking for a paper. it's too simple, yet.
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00:54:36 <fungot> TieSoul-mobile: am i missing something? is it happening through some automatic update of the site is pretty fucked up: http://www.misterkitty.org/ extras/ stupidcovers/ fnord
00:54:36 <DootBot> TieSoul-mobile: !befunge it's scary those? know! 438 "olleH">:#,_@ not gonna Iwam the tired, size things /me for.
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00:55:55 <fungot> int-e: making its author like looking like a random windows glitch
00:56:13 <Daan> wait found it.
00:56:20 <Daan> http://agora-notary.wikidot.com/
00:56:21 * boily mapoles int-e. “don't diss the Fungot!”
00:57:14 <int-e> boily: it did use the f-word, I was merely defeding myself.
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00:59:37 <oerjan> boily: *MWAHAHAHAHAHA* (det är en evighetskmaskin!)
01:02:51 <oerjan> int-e: technically the wisdom and the quotes are not the same database hth
01:06:10 <oerjan> darn he left before i could tell em agora is still alive
01:06:46 <atriq> Agora is still alive!?
01:07:13 <atriq> Also what is that loud beeping noise
01:07:20 <oerjan> although it's having trouble filling its offices lately
01:07:53 <oerjan> hm that may be the universe warning you not to let me suck you into agora. (i'm just watching btw.)
01:08:46 <boily> atriq: what kind of beeping? you'll have to be more precise hth
01:08:54 <atriq> It may be a fire alarm
01:09:05 <atriq> At family house, they've made changes
01:09:07 <boily> then it's a Maybe Fire Alarm.
01:09:10 <atriq> Like having a fire alarm
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01:22:16 <oerjan> <oerjan> darn he left before i could tell em agora is still alive
01:23:47 <Daan> A game or the community. Either would be impressive.
01:24:23 <oerjan> well people come and go
01:24:31 <elliott_> that site is just a site to track the contracts that was used by a recordkeeper once
01:24:36 <elliott_> it's not an archive of the game proper or anything
01:25:05 <oerjan> elliott_ was a player until recently
01:25:22 <oerjan> i'm on the lists but just watching
01:26:23 <oerjan> www.agoranomic.org is more official
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01:45:41 <boily> time to plastify my teeth. 'night all!
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01:51:52 <oerjan> don't question boily's sanity-preserving measures tdnh
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02:00:40 <int-e> ^v: perhaps boily prefers grinding plastic over grinding teeth
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03:43:42 <shachaf> fizzie: aren't finnish wild strawberries delicious
03:43:49 <shachaf> so much better than other strawberries
03:45:10 <Sgeo_> I want to sing a song about mono-traversable to the same tune as Mother Necessity
03:46:13 <Sgeo_> A flat-bottomed boat with a blunt bow?
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07:18:11 <Sgeo_> data (f :|: g) x = L (f x) | R (g x)
07:18:24 <Sgeo_> Looks so much like a function definition
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07:27:15 <myname> wait, that's actually possible?
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07:30:01 <shachaf> Haskell functors are even a monoidal category with (:+:) and Void1
07:30:11 <shachaf> (And also with :*: and Proxy.)
07:30:41 <shachaf> That was probably not helpful to say.
07:31:47 <coppro> myname: operators which start with : are reserved for types
07:33:26 <myname> what does :*: does there? f . g x?
07:33:43 <J_Arcane> shachaf: as an american I find the native Finnish berries sometimes more sour than I really expect.
07:34:03 <shachaf> :*: is product, (f x, g x)
07:34:15 <shachaf> :.: is composition, f (g x)
07:34:31 <shachaf> That one makes a monoidal category too. But everyone knows that one.
07:34:40 <shachaf> :+: is sum, Either (f x) (g x)
07:35:17 <myname> i don't get the difference between + and | in that context
07:35:50 <shachaf> No difference. That's why I said I would call it :+:
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08:41:23 <Tahetark> Are there any cellular automatas made to efficiently simulate a turing machine?
08:42:08 <Tahetark> By efficiently I mean, fast and with reasonably small space, Conway's turing machine looks kind of slow
08:42:18 <Ando> Don't know about efficiently, but Wolfram has done a lot of work in that araa.
08:42:40 <Ando> yeah, conway is awful for that.
08:43:26 <Ando> I think rule... 130 (1d ca is turing capable)
08:46:20 <Ando> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UniversalCellularAutomaton.html best place to look.
08:46:45 <coppro> ugh, one of these days I need to buckle down and write some automata
08:47:07 <Ando> or evolve them
08:47:20 <coppro> evolve finite tree automata?
08:47:34 <coppro> I know what I need to do. It's just going to be pain
08:47:51 <Ando> easiest thing in the world, as long if you have all the time in the world
08:48:02 <coppro> actually should probably write some computer code for this
08:48:03 <Ando> what's your goal?
08:48:23 <coppro> to understand equation systems defining minor-closed classes of graphs
08:48:36 <coppro> to do this I need to produce some, and to do that I need to generate some automata
08:48:53 <coppro> (for any but the most trivial of classes)
08:49:11 <Ando> sounds complicated.
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10:08:45 <impomatic_> What's the name for a binary tree where all leaf nodes are the same distance from the root?
10:15:09 <impomatic_> Thanks, that seems to fit the description.
10:19:44 <Tahetark> it's sad that we don't use fruit metaphors for trees
10:25:09 <fizzie> The full/perfect/complete triplet gets slightly mixed up by different authors, I believe.
10:32:44 <Tahetark> \o/ $37.95 to read one article
10:34:41 * impomatic_ attempts to describe a Core War binary imp launch in terms of a perfect binary tree!
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10:44:58 <shachaf> data Froo f a = Pure a | Froo (Froo f (f a))
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13:00:21 <Melvar> < shachaf> :.: is composition, f (g x) – ↑
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17:00:06 <TieSoul> !brainfuck ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
17:00:10 <TieSoul> !brainfuck ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
17:00:16 <TieSoul> !brainf*** ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
17:00:21 <TieSoul> !brainfart ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
17:00:27 <TieSoul> !brainflip ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
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18:28:09 <DootBot> 1577721810442023610823457130565572459346412870218046009540557861328125
18:28:46 <TieSoul> rb> "Hello" + 523.chr('UTF-8')
18:38:59 <Melvar> I was hoping 1.0 would be a method call, but looks like it’s not.
18:39:29 <TieSoul> rb> dootbot.part('#esoteric')
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19:22:50 <TieSoul> try to break dootbot by using rb> commands
19:22:50 <DootBot> TieSoul: doot yaybot, want bider. head. Yaybot that? YayBot she's metronome? Lol :P fight about a as anyway...
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19:26:03 <olsner> doesn't seem to do anything
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19:32:32 <J_Arcane> rp> # print "I wish you were lisp"
19:32:37 <J_Arcane> rb> # print "I wish you were lisp"
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19:32:59 <DootBot> 29512665430652752148753480226197736314359272517043832886063884637676943433478020332709411004889
19:33:16 <TieSoul> rb> (1..10).to_a.inject(:*)
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20:05:49 <coppro> does anyone know any good libraries for working with automata (e.g. DFAs, NFAs)
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20:13:38 <Phantom_Hoover> i know sam hughes used something for his regex and-er thing, but he may have written it himself
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20:15:48 <coppro> yeah, I'm looking to do some transformations on automata, tree automata specifically
20:17:16 <coppro> assuming I have to write the code myself, I am trying to decide between going Agda, which would be awesome and I'll regret, Haskell which will lead to runtime errors, or C++ which would be awesome and I'll regret for entirely different reasons
20:24:29 <fizzie> There's that one Java thing, JFLAP.
20:24:39 <fizzie> I don't know if it's for good for any serious use.
20:25:20 <fizzie> Also possibly not so relevant for tree automata.
20:25:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AndoDaan * New user account
20:26:15 <Daan> Hey, that's me... wtf
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20:27:27 <fizzie> I was going to add a note on Esolang:Community_portal that the wiki RC feed is also on #esoteric these days.
20:30:09 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal More of those always-as-interesting hotel room views: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140827-scandic_tampere_station.jpg
20:32:29 <olsner> does that window say beer and billiards?
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21:43:58 <Vorpal> fizzie, kind of grey isn't it?
21:44:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, but I can't spot the seams, so that is good
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21:57:02 <int-e> I see one, two, three seams, but not easy to find.
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22:03:11 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/seam.jpg
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22:03:43 <fizzie> int-e: Yeah, I didn't spend too long with it.
22:05:08 <int-e> it works well enough anyway :)
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22:07:22 <fizzie> Also from the same trip: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140827-bridge1.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140827-bridge2.jpg
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22:14:25 <int-e> wow, I imagined this to be *much* more perceptible. http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/waterseam.jpg
22:15:04 <int-e> (using curved lines is a nice touch)
22:15:32 <fizzie> It's all entirely automatical, blended with enblend.
22:17:23 <fizzie> In https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140827-scandic_pori.jpg it has opted to cut a car in half.
22:18:37 <int-e> pity about the messed up sign in https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140827-bridge2.jpg
22:19:21 <fizzie> Heh, I didn't even notice that, since the outlines were okay.
22:19:27 <int-e> (also something is off with the lighting in the rightmost picture)
22:19:41 <fizzie> Yeah, there was a bit of an accident there.
22:20:12 <fizzie> I had set the camera to manual exposure but forgot ISO to auto.
22:21:13 <fizzie> That makes it do its usual exposure calculations but use the ISO setting as the only free parameter to achieve what it thinks is good.
22:22:20 <fizzie> In this case, "good" had quite blown-out highlights in the sand, and Hugin's photometric optimilization thing has just brought the overall level down to match the neighbor.
22:24:37 <int-e> in any case it works amazingly well
22:24:59 <fizzie> It's a full 360 degrees, so I probably should've put the wraparound point at that seam, actually. Then it would be less noticeable.
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22:25:52 <int-e> I can't even find some of the seams when I'm looking for them.
22:27:52 <fizzie> These were all handheld. With a tripod and a panorama head configured to rotate around the correct no-parallax point, it's really hard to find any seams, unless there's been some motion.
22:29:45 <int-e> I'm really surprised about how well the close water surface worked)
22:30:52 <int-e> I mean without the arrows, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/waterseam.jpg would probably not look odd at all, unless you stare at it for a while.
22:31:18 <int-e> and that's a small detail of the big picture :)
22:32:13 <fizzie> https://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/9246704558/in/set-72157634561814470 is an indoor scene (so lots of potential parallax motion) made out of 48 shots (3 rows of 16 directions) with a tripod and a hand-made panorama head (and a different camera).
22:33:25 <fizzie> The automatic control point finding did have some trouble when given two photos of a more or less blank white wall, though.
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22:41:06 <oerjan> <coppro> myname: operators which start with : are reserved for types <-- actually that is no longer true, the : requirement was removed. (the slight downside is you no longer can use operator type _variables_.)
22:41:39 <oerjan> @let data a + b = a :+ b
22:41:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:41:51 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Int’
22:41:51 <lambdabot> ‘In’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted),
22:42:15 <lambdabot> defined at /home/lambda/.lambdabot/State/L.hs:161:16
22:42:30 <fizzie> "It could refer to either X."
22:42:35 <oerjan> figures it was already used for something.
22:42:58 <oerjan> oh i should have remembered that one
22:43:17 <oerjan> @let data a + b = A a | B b
22:43:49 <oerjan> note that the : requirement still holds for _data_ constructor operators.
22:44:19 <oerjan> @tell coppro <coppro> myname: operators which start with : are reserved for types <-- actually that is no longer true, the : requirement was removed. (the slight downside is you no longer can use operator type _variables_.)
22:45:21 <oerjan> with all the kind promotion and stuff the syntax is getting messy.
22:46:13 <lambdabot> Illegal type: ‘'[Int]’ Perhaps you intended to use DataKinds
22:46:32 <oerjan> int-e: WHY YOU MISSING EXTENSIONS
22:46:50 <oerjan> turn everything safe on, i say
22:47:05 <oerjan> (i sincerely _hope_ DataKinds are Safe)
22:47:15 <coppro> oerjan: oh, I thought that was still only a proposal
22:47:31 <coppro> oerjan: also I'm right here you know
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22:48:34 <oerjan> coppro: you said nothing, and i don't trust people who have been idle for > 30 minutes and who say nothing not to ping out before they see my message. except quintopia by special request.
22:49:34 <Melvar> > :let data a + b = A a | B b
22:49:36 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input ‘:’
22:49:45 <Melvar> ( :let data a + b = A a | B b
22:50:07 <oerjan> i am not sure my memory has room for more than one person on the request list. we'll see.
22:50:21 <idris-bot> When elaborating an application of constructor __infer:
22:50:25 <fizzie> oerjan: It will be interesting to see if it's a stack or a queue.
22:50:43 <idris-bot> command not recognized or not supported
22:51:31 -!- not^v has joined.
22:51:35 <idris-bot> Prelude.Classes.(+) : Num a => a -> a -> a
22:51:35 <idris-bot> Prelude.Fin.(+) : Fin n -> Fin m -> Fin (n + m)
22:51:52 <oerjan> i saw linked a mention on twitter i think that they're putting Foldable and Traversable into the Prelude. which is natural once Applicative goes in there, i guess.
22:52:13 <oerjan> although i've only seen that one mention yet, so am not entirely trusting it.
22:52:24 <Melvar> Evidently datadecl parsing is broken, in a way …
22:53:08 <int-e> oerjan: there are too many of them
22:53:47 <oerjan> it would be funny if ghc ran out of some limit if you tried to enable all extensions
22:55:20 <oerjan> ooh i know. except i need to be sure it doesn't ping people...
22:55:37 <HackEgo> bin/danddreclist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/list \ bin/llist \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist
22:56:05 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:56:08 <oerjan> `makelist dontaskdonttelllist
22:57:50 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
22:58:54 <oerjan> `run (echo 'quin topia'; echo 'cop pro') | sed 's/ //g' >bin/dontaskdonttelllist
22:59:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oops: not found
22:59:22 <oerjan> `run (echo 'quin topia'; echo 'cop pro') | sed 's/ //g' >>bin/dontaskdonttelllist
22:59:31 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro
23:00:33 <oerjan> is that successfully not pinging you
23:00:56 <oerjan> hm i suppose i could make that automatic
23:01:08 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:01:09 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:02:58 -!- Bicyclidine has joined.
23:03:43 <oerjan> myname: i don't remember
23:06:26 <oerjan> `run echo ' ' | sed 's/ /./'
23:07:22 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:07:40 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/xargs/sed 's/1/
23:07:41 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 16: unknown option to `s'
23:08:04 <oerjan> `run echo ' ' | sed 's/ /1/'
23:09:28 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\1/' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:09:29 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 33: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS
23:09:48 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/\\(.\\)/\\1/' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:09:48 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 37: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS
23:10:47 <oerjan> `run echo ' ' | sed 's/ /&/'
23:11:55 <Melvar> `run echo ' ' | sed 's/ /\&/'
23:12:42 <oerjan> Melvar: i don't think you see what that did hth
23:12:59 <oerjan> `run echo ' ' | sed 's/ /\&/'
23:13:15 <Melvar> & on the RHS means the whole match.
23:14:00 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\&' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:14:05 <Melvar> Whoops, misread, no I probably didn’t then.
23:14:11 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:14:11 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./\xargs' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:15:36 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:15:36 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:16:08 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\\\\&' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:16:14 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:16:15 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./\&' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:16:37 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: sed: -e expression #1, char 9: unterminated `s' command
23:17:11 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\\\\&/' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:17:17 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: &uintopia &oppro
23:19:49 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\\\\\&/g' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:19:54 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: xargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargs xargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargsxargs
23:21:38 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\\\\\&/g' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:21:49 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:21:49 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./\\xargs/g' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:22:25 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\\\\&/g' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:22:29 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:22:30 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./\&/g' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:22:52 <oerjan> ok wtf was that the right number
23:23:12 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:23:48 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\&/g' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:23:54 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:23:54 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./\xargs/g' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:24:07 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\\\&/g' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:24:11 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:24:11 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./\xargs/g' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:24:39 <oerjan> `run sed -i "s,xargs,sed 's/./\\&/g' | xargs," bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:24:44 <oerjan> `cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:24:44 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./&/g' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro
23:24:57 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro
23:28:15 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2,3s&&&' bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:28:17 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression
23:28:44 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2,3sdontaskdonttelllist' bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:28:45 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 23: unterminated `s' command
23:29:15 -!- Bicyclidine has joined.
23:29:18 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2,3s&&&' bin/dontaskdonttelllist
23:29:27 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro
23:33:49 <oerjan> oh right the shell doesn't treat & specially in strings
23:33:57 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:34:10 <oerjan> that's why my escaping guesses were off by one
23:34:54 <oerjan> coppro: did any of this HackEgo mess ping you?
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23:51:10 <oerjan> @tell TieSoul i hope your rb> command isn't unsecured
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