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00:08:51 <Taneb> Help I'm thinking about shapes again
00:09:19 <oerjan> i hear that's common with young people
00:09:32 <Phantom__Hoover> i did a geometry module last year, ask me anything about triangles
00:09:49 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, I started with octohedra and then went to rhombic dodecohedra and now I don't even know
00:09:54 <Taneb> But I'm gonna make one
00:10:21 <Taneb> Paper and sellotape probably
00:15:06 <Taneb> I cannot find sellotape :(
00:15:29 <oerjan> well it sounds like something they'd sell
00:16:13 <Taneb> It's quarter past one and I don't know of any 24 hour shops that sell sellotape
00:16:57 <oerjan> just use superglue instead
00:17:26 <Gregor> Wait, juding by time zones, not the right nation X-D
00:17:51 <Taneb> Gregor, yeah, I'm slightly in York, North Yorkshire
00:18:13 <pikhq> Also, seriously, if you assume America then there's a nearby Walmart.
00:18:19 <pikhq> And trust me, Walmart sells tape. :)
00:18:21 <Gregor> I'm slowly remembering this universe ^^´
00:18:30 <Gregor> My nearby Walmart isn't 24/7
00:18:53 <Gregor> It's like a sad counterfeit of Walmart.
00:19:26 <pikhq> But how are you supposed to shop at 3am in a minor daze?
00:19:58 <elliott> Gregor: so your absence was due to interdimensional travel?
00:20:00 <Gregor> (Actually I don't think Walgreens is in Canada, hyuk)
00:20:04 <pikhq> ... but how am I supposed to randomly decide I want curry and then succeed with what's available from Walgreens?
00:20:06 <Gregor> elliott: Feels like it.
00:20:35 <Gregor> pikhq: The very BEST Walgreens... um... toothpaste is like curry.
00:20:47 <pikhq> Not that this is much of an issue now.
00:21:07 <pikhq> The ability to make curry on a whim is something I make sure of now that I have my own place.
00:21:22 <pikhq> Man's gotta have priorities.
00:21:38 <Gregor> Got one of those curry-making magical wands, eh?
00:21:57 <pikhq> Just a well-stocked kitchen.
00:22:26 <Gregor> elliott: I have the best ideas ever, no?
00:22:35 <pikhq> By god curry toothpaste.
00:22:58 <pikhq> This is either a fantastic idea or a terrible one.
00:23:04 <Gregor> I'm gonna vote terrible.
00:23:22 <pikhq> Without trying it, I'm going to agree.
00:24:08 <Gregor> It's so that you can be brushing while you purge.
00:24:26 <pikhq> Follow up with mango habanero ice cream.
00:27:59 <paul2520> mango habanero ice cream doesn't sound too bad, but maybe not *after* brushing...
00:28:30 <pikhq> paul2520: It is a real thing.
00:29:45 <paul2520> pikhq: it's easy to make: http://www.bigoven.com/recipe/mango-habanero-ice-cream/108897
00:30:27 <Gregor> That URL implies that you would make it in an oven.
00:30:30 <Gregor> That feels wrong somehow.
00:31:00 <paul2520> haha. the instructions involve no ovens.
00:31:14 <paul2520> I feel like it would be hot enough with the habaneros...
00:31:21 <pikhq> But this would be a very odd use of an oven.
00:32:13 <Gregor> Step one: Do not pre-heat oven.
00:32:17 <Gregor> Step two: Fill oven with ice.
00:32:59 <elliott> you're telling me you don't eat your ice cream piping hot?
00:33:33 <pikhq> Well, not generally.
00:33:35 <Gregor> Apparently Walmart ice cream doesn't melt (because KEMIKILLS OH GAWD DON'T EAT IT) so presumably you could eat that quite warm.
00:33:39 <pikhq> Though in winter it's sometimes tempting.
00:34:24 <pikhq> Gregor: Real reason is that the ice cream sandwiches have gum in them. I think it was gum arabic?
00:34:29 <elliott> Gregor: if you're talking about the video I'm thinking of, it did melt eventually outdoors
00:34:35 <Gregor> pikhq: They've got a whole collection :)
00:34:36 <elliott> so probably really hot would not be manageable.
00:34:57 <elliott> pikhq: is that why my mouth doesn't melt when it gets hot?
00:35:12 <pikhq> elliott: Yes. Yes it is. :P
00:36:49 <Gregor> SCIENCE FACT: If you removed all of a person's teeth and laid them end-to-end, that person would probably be quite cross with you.
00:37:21 <elliott> that's a weird fetish. why not just lay them without removing their teeth?
00:51:57 <Phantom__Hoover> does that mean chewing gum can be used to reinforce my mouth?
00:52:15 <Gregor> Phantom__Hoover: Not if you spit it out.
00:52:28 <Gregor> You have to mold the chewing gum onto your own gums.
00:52:31 <Gregor> Most people forget to do that.
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01:43:15 <Taneb> Shapes are hard :(
01:43:44 <Taneb> I don't know how to construct a pentagon
01:46:49 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pentagon_construct.gif practical!!
01:52:01 <Sgeo> Ooh Github has LSL hilighting
01:53:01 <paul2520> too much work; I would just draw a pentagram and either use the inside or outside for the pentagon
01:53:13 <paul2520> I can draw a decent-enough pentagram
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02:01:38 <Sgeo> ....why the flying fudge did I ask for donations in a product I sold?
02:02:42 <Sgeo> Well, the code is permanently and irreversibly online now
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02:02:56 <Sgeo> https://github.com/Sgeo/Antiposeball/blob/master/Antiposeball%205.lsl
02:03:06 <Sgeo> I apparently severely misunderstood animations
02:03:47 <Sgeo> And it uses sensors instead of llGetObjectDetails()... because llGetObjectDetails() didn't exist when I wrote it.
02:03:53 <Sgeo> Taneb: the scripting language used in Second Life
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02:27:17 <Sgeo> Is there a friendly way to criticise Racket?
02:29:18 <Sgeo> There's a macro called struct*, used for pattern matching on structures. It takes a struct-id and field name(s). It needs to get the accessor function for the field, for obvious reasons. It does this by combining the struct-id and field name. But then, this needs a context, so.... it assumes that the function is to be found in the same context as the field name. This seems arbitrary (although clearly a choice needs to be made), and requiring
02:29:18 <Sgeo> documentation.
02:29:28 <Sgeo> Maybe I should write an example...
02:31:41 <Sgeo> The worst part is I don't know what the correct thing to do is... except 1) Have the accessors accessible in a cleaner manner, directly off data contained by the struct-id. 2) At least document the scenario, and all scenarios where an identity is assumed to be located in a context input to a macro, and where the used context is not trivially obvious
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02:40:43 <Bike> have the struct-id evaluate (in some appropriate lexenv) to a description of the structure that includes an ordered sequence of field names?
02:40:54 <Bike> actually, to an ordered sequence of accessors.
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03:03:12 <Sgeo> I believe it already does the former
03:03:19 <Sgeo> Going from that to the latter not so much
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03:08:31 <Sgeo> ...WHY am I getting ads for Dyson airblades? I mean, I used one yesterday, but I don't think Google is psychic.
03:09:08 <coppro> that's what they want you to think
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03:09:13 <Sgeo> Hmm. Maybe I did click a link recently
03:09:28 <Sgeo> For unrelated reasons
03:30:12 <pikhq> I'm quite confident that Google is not psychic.
03:30:22 <pikhq> However, you may want to check for eye implants.
03:30:30 <pikhq> Google Eye forced beta test?
03:31:09 <coppro> pikhq: why are you so confidengt?
03:31:20 <pikhq> Because I am psychic.
03:50:59 <Sgeo> Note to self: Never learn by example.
03:51:23 <Sgeo> I did not know that this was allowed in jQuery: someJQueryElem.attr({foo: "a", bar: "b"})
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05:22:57 <Sgeo> Facebook spammer spammed me... in an interesting way
05:23:03 <Sgeo> Attached an image with an email address
05:23:25 <shachaf> that is... an interesting way
05:23:34 <shachaf> interesting enough... to merit an ellipsis
05:23:44 <Sgeo> http://i.imgur.com/YQd54gJ.png
05:24:37 <Bike> did you actually reply to an obvious spammer
05:24:58 <shachaf> oh no you've leaked your name
05:25:06 <Sgeo> I've leaked my name before
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05:43:46 <elliott> loveth gerald is a great name
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06:03:20 <Sgeo> Huh. Apparently HSTS can be disabled.
06:03:41 * Sgeo was under the impression that sending an HSTS header was an irreversible action
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06:24:02 <Sgeo> https://www.leviathansecurity.com/blog/the-double-edged-sword-of-hsts-persistence-and-privacy/
06:24:22 <Sgeo> (When I first saw that, I was thinking maybe timing + max-age shenanigans, but that's very fiddly)
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06:55:20 <Sgeo> " Note, that even the specification got this part wrong in its example on violation reports "
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09:15:16 <myname> "Git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space."
09:15:35 <myname> the part about what branches are, not that git gets easier
09:18:50 <shachaf> As long as you're going to say something like that at least make it sound plausible.
09:19:07 <fizzie> Yeah, that sounds like more of a darcs concept.</reinforce kind="stereotype" ref="#haskell_is_math">
09:19:50 <b_jonas> (unless you want a generalized zygomorphism)
09:21:48 <b_jonas> shachaf: I did try to invent something more plausable => http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/git-extensions
09:27:26 <mroman_> Why does read -p "foo" terminate without me entering a line
09:27:32 <mroman_> is this due to background jobs?
09:29:39 <b_jonas> mroman_: maybe some program forgot to restore your stty (tcsetattr) settings, but you don't notice that because the shell temporarily sets a different stty mode for its readline prompt
09:30:13 <b_jonas> mroman_: read doesn't normally use readline, just the normal canonical terminal input
09:30:31 <b_jonas> (it can use readline if you give the -e switch)
09:30:36 <mroman_> I'm trying to launch some processes with &
09:30:56 <myname> http://www.theproofistrivial.com/ i like
09:30:57 <mroman_> I thought with read -p they'd run until I enter something
09:31:13 <b_jonas> mroman_: huh? now I don't understand what you're doing
09:31:17 <b_jonas> what is read having to do with this?
09:31:25 <b_jonas> can you show what exactly you're trying?
09:32:51 <mroman_> but these war files terminate when you press enter
09:33:03 <mroman_> i.e. they probably have something like System.in.readc(); exit();
09:33:22 <mroman_> if I launch them within a script they immediately exit
09:33:41 <mroman_> if I launch them in my terminal they run as long as I don't press enter
09:35:10 <b_jonas> mroman_: hmm... but what does read (the shell builtin) have to do with this?
09:35:26 <b_jonas> (also, maybe those java programs are just stupid)
09:38:26 <mroman_> it's System.in.read(); server.stop();
09:38:33 <mroman_> which is supposed to "block"
09:38:41 <mroman_> but it doesn't block if no terminal is attached to stdin
09:38:56 <b_jonas> what's attached instead? /dev/null ?
09:39:36 <b_jonas> if the program is ran on the terminal but only backgrounded, a read from the terminal should stop the program with the SIGTTIN signal until it's foregrounded
09:40:40 <mroman_> I suppose if you launch it with &
09:40:48 <mroman_> then System.in.read will read 0 bytes and immediately return
09:41:07 <b_jonas> it should stop the process with a SIGTTIN signal I think
09:42:03 <b_jonas> if the process ignores/handles that signal so it continues (doesn't wait till it's foregrounded), then the read does return an error
09:42:09 <b_jonas> specifically EIO apparently
09:44:25 <b_jonas> so maybe the program or the java runtime is stupid enough to ignore that signal specifically?
09:45:34 <mroman_> read() returns -1 if there's nothing more to read
09:46:05 <b_jonas> mroman_: it returns -1 in case of an error, storing the error code to errno; returns 0 if there's nothing to read (EOF)
09:47:04 <b_jonas> no idea, maybe it puts the error in a java exception or something, or you need to use a different java function. check a manual.
09:47:10 <fizzie> FWIW, a tiny test-case on OpenJDK says it stops like any other process.
09:47:17 <mroman_> I've replaced System.in.read with readline
09:47:21 <mroman_> but either it's not recompiled
09:47:57 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/EiDO and so on.
09:48:16 <fizzie> (The 'x' is my input after foregrounding it; but anyway, it blocked at the read.)
09:50:20 <mroman_> I added a syntax error to the launcher
09:52:07 <mroman_> those morons should've added clean to the mvn command line probably
09:55:00 <b_jonas> you edited the wrong file?
09:56:49 <mroman_> It's linked as mainclass in the pom.xml
09:57:12 <mroman_> the mainclass doesn't compile though
09:57:18 <mroman_> but stuff that depends on it still does
09:59:06 <mroman_> Honestly I'm completely new to Java and maven
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10:04:19 <mroman_> if something doesn't compile it magically loads the last compilable version from the sky or wherever
10:04:31 <mroman_> which means it won't tell you if something doesn't compile
10:05:37 <mroman_> well... at least my new stuff is now compiled in
10:06:01 <mroman_> but System.console() is null if you launch it with & :)
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10:13:34 <fizzie> That's kind of what the documentation says.
10:13:46 <fizzie> "If the virtual machine is started from an interactive command line without redirecting the standard input and output streams then its console will exist and will typically be connected to the keyboard and display from which the virtual machine was launched. If the virtual machine is started automatically, for example by a background job scheduler, then it will typically not have a console."
10:14:01 <fizzie> I guess & is kind of arguable.
10:14:48 <fizzie> It should still have the System.in/out streams, and those behaved as expected in my mini-test.
10:18:41 <mroman_> System.in.read isn't blocking when using &
10:19:07 <mroman_> I'm not saying it doesn't work
10:20:00 <mroman_> or maybe it is, but with attached terminal it at least has some sort of line buffering
10:20:17 <mroman_> which could be done by either the terminal or java
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10:21:56 <mroman_> I like how this thing is named "demo" but's supposed to be production
10:43:04 <b_jonas> ARGH! apparently doxygen cannot parse the a struct definition like 'class __declspec(dllexport) foo { ... };' only nobody notices that because __declspec(dllexport) is usually hidden behind a macro
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12:19:20 <lambdabot> RJNK 161200Z 15004KT 9999 FEW025 21/18 Q1014
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22:47:15 <diginet> why does GNU APL have PHP-style server pages?
22:47:27 <diginet> I can think of literally no reasons for that style of insanity
22:47:40 <Bike> there's a GNU APL, huh
22:48:30 <diginet> and APL is definitely on topic for #esoteric, lol
22:49:02 <Bike> still sounds better than php, tbh
22:49:25 <diginet> Bike: I'm paid to write PHP, that doesn't even begin to cover it
22:49:34 <diginet> I would rather write web apps in BF
22:49:46 <diginet> I'd rather write web apps in Cobol
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22:52:01 <Phantom__Hoover> ooh, wait, Lymia, were you involved in that massive bukkit clusterfuck that happened
22:53:31 <Lymia> Massive bukkit clusterfuck?
22:53:48 <Lymia> I haven't been involved in Minecraft for a few months.
22:54:13 <Phantom__Hoover> evilseph cancelled the project, mojang revealed they owned it
22:54:29 <Phantom__Hoover> (i still don't know how you can own a gpled project but--)
22:54:33 <Gregor> Mojang didn't REVEAL that they owned it.
22:54:36 <Gregor> They've owned it for years.
22:54:55 <Phantom__Hoover> my impression was that this was deliberately kept secret, though
22:55:06 <Gregor> There was a whole brouhaha when they bought it.
22:55:13 <Gregor> But then they didn't really DO anything with it, so everybody forgot.
22:55:39 <Gregor> The Twitter conversation went like this: "Sorry, I have to cancel the project." "Um, you don't own the project. We bought it. You can't cancel it."
22:55:50 <Phantom__Hoover> (seriously how do you buy bukkit!! what does this even mean!)
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22:56:37 <Gregor> They owned the name, site, etc, and many of the devs are Mojang employees.
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22:57:02 <Gregor> There was no secrecy here, just stupidity. Never account to malice etc etc.
22:57:32 <Lymia> If I had more patience, I might fork it. But I don't have the patience to work with Java code anymore
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22:58:34 <Lymia> Minecraft's fanbase being idiots as usual.
22:58:36 <Lymia> Nothing new to me.
23:04:36 <Lymia> I'm not sure I understand the full story then.
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23:05:51 <Phantom__Hoover> Well, as in, they went to the trouble of buying Bukkit, hiring the devs, then proceeded to ignore them and cut off even the meagre support they were providing.
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23:08:12 <Bike> are y'all ready for true untethered freedom https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/768618350/airvr-virtual-reality-for-ios
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23:08:29 <Bike> featuring advanced 64-bit Processors
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23:09:28 <shachaf> the other day in another channel someone gave a long list of failed "how to make a successful kickstarter project" kickstarter projects
23:12:29 <Sgeo> kmc... isnt here, dangit
23:12:29 <Sgeo> Who else am I to talk about Rust with?
23:12:29 <Sgeo> Anyways: I think Rust people keep reinventing lenslike things
23:12:29 <Sgeo> headers.get(CONNECTION); // -> Option<Vec<Connection>>
23:12:29 <elliott> Lymia: it's hard to fork it, since you can easily get DMCA'd for it
23:12:29 <Sgeo> Where CONNECTION is presumably an entity that knows how to transform some bytes representing HTTP headers into a Connection based on the Connection header, and visa versa
23:12:29 <Lymia> elliott, not for an reimplementation.
23:12:51 <elliott> Lymia: well, the basic issue is that bukkit was always kinda illegal
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23:13:18 <elliott> since it's at odds with both the minecraft EULA and the GPL
23:13:23 <Gregor> Bike: That's as brilliant as it is stupid.
23:13:24 <Gregor> I remember a similar device for an olde VR dev environment for DOS.
23:13:25 <Gregor> You cut it out of cardboard, folded it up and you could see true 3D.
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23:17:49 <Phantom__Hoover> Lymia, oh also, if i didn't mention it, after evilseph left so did everyone else
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23:18:03 <oerjan> were there any "how to make a successful "how to make a successful kickstarter project" kickstarter projects?
23:18:04 <oerjan> i think it needs an extra "kickstarter project"
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23:19:08 * Sgeo attempts to scare oerjan with a scary claim about how scaring people supposedly cures hiccups
23:19:27 <oerjan> BY KILLING THEM, right?
23:19:40 * oerjan seemed to do fine by drinking some water, thank you very much
23:20:27 <shachaf> Sgeo: you're in a channel in which kmc talks about rust a lot
23:20:33 <shachaf> oerjan: there were certainly jokes about them
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23:20:43 * GeekDude slaps everyone in this channel with a trout
23:21:08 <Gregor> That's either a big trout or a lot of slapping.
23:22:01 * GeekDude swings at logic with a dwarven axe
23:22:01 <shachaf> Why is a basis a popular thing in topology, rather than a subbasis?
23:22:12 <shachaf> The latter seems more natural.
23:22:29 <shachaf> Also, is a topology generated by a subbasis "free" in some way?
23:22:40 <Bicyclidine> Gregor: did this DOS gizmo have a kickstarter...
23:23:24 <shachaf> Phantom__Hoover: That's possible, but it's also likely that I don't have good intuition or taste for any of these things.
23:24:01 <Bicyclidine> when i think common sense i think subbases.
23:24:34 <Phantom__Hoover> the free topology on a set is either the discrete or trivial one
23:24:54 <shachaf> The free topological space on a set.
23:25:13 <shachaf> I'm talking about the topology itself.
23:25:21 <shachaf> It at least seems initial in some sense.
23:25:56 <shachaf> If you fix a set of points X, and then you talk about the various topologies you could give it.
23:26:05 <shachaf> And you could also talk about arbitrary subsets of P(X)
23:26:28 <shachaf> And maybe those are categories or something. And maybe you have an adjunction goin' between those two. I don't know.
23:27:51 <Bicyclidine> mainly i follow an oculus programmer on twitter and from what i understand of what he says it doesn't seem like you could do VR with a common screen without everything being... epileptic
23:31:01 <GeekDude> It'd be very pixely, and very nauseating
23:33:22 <shachaf> I don't know. Maybe you look at subsets of P(X) as a lattice and use some sort of lattice homomorphism?
23:33:40 <shachaf> Maybe the thing with complete Heyting algebras/frames/locales.
23:41:13 <shachaf> I think something like that could probably work.
23:47:54 <shachaf> Wait, what am I talking about. I'm not making sense.
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