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00:29:05 <elliott> Sgeo: no such thing as an upgrade discount (upgrades are always free, so people just make new full-price apps to get paid for upgrades instead), not-too-great sandboxing means reduced functionality of many apps and many others simply unavailable, just generally has decreasing traction amongst developers, plus general app store problems
00:29:10 <elliott> weird stuff like in-app payments :p
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00:36:45 <Sgeo> I guess most Linuxy app stores don't have payments anyway, making the upgrade thing moot
00:37:20 <Sgeo> I assume those are just wrappers around the whole distro thing anyway
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00:40:31 <Somelauw> except for ubuntu, which has become a commercial distro
00:44:24 <Sgeo> Now I'm looking at Ubuntu
00:44:28 <elliott> the mac has a far greater history/culture of for-pay software than even windows
00:46:22 <Sgeo> Ubuntu uses Qt these days?
00:46:28 <Sgeo> I though GNOME was all GTK+
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01:06:20 <Somelauw> ubuntu uses a pimped version of gnome, called unity
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01:15:28 <MDude> So wait, the app store for I'm presuming iPhone allows in-app payments, but not paying for upgrades?
01:15:56 <Sgeo> So why do I see the Ubuntu page talking about QML and Qt?
01:15:58 <MDude> Yet people don't just construe new features as in-app purchases?
01:16:22 <Sgeo> MDude: Mac app store is distinct from iOS app store. Don't know what those policies are
01:16:33 <MDude> I mean iOs store, then?
01:17:20 <MDude> The in-app purshases but no payment for upgrades thing seems even weirder for desktop programs.
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01:38:50 <elliott> Sgeo: because unity is qt.
01:39:46 <elliott> MDude: and yes, people do contrive things as in-app purchases
01:40:07 <elliott> like a free app that effectively makes "do useful things" an in-app purchase, because the mac app store doesn't support trial or demo versions
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03:38:28 <AndoDaan> remind me not to attempt a semi-lengthy page edit again without frequently saving an off-line draft.
03:47:58 <elliott> hm, can't you just go back in your history to recover the form contents?
03:48:07 <elliott> iirc IE or something used to not support that, but surely it does now...
03:50:07 <AndoDaan> checked, not this time. I tried to move to the preview page without realizizng my connection was out.
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03:53:38 <elliott> AndoDaan_: maybe you'll find https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lazarus-form-recovery/ / https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lazarus-form-recovery/loljledaigphbcpfhfmgopdkppkifgno?hl=en useful
03:54:02 <elliott> maybe it is not quite actively developed any more going by that release date.
03:54:18 <elliott> probably still works though.
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03:56:15 <AndoDaan_> i will(unless it slows my browser down past what's bearable), thanks for showing me!
03:58:45 <elliott> heh, well, I can't imagine it's among the heavier extensions you can ruin firefox and chrome with
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04:02:56 <Sgeo> As much as iPhone policies make me nervous, it would be nice not to have a back button or for apps to expect use of the menu button
04:03:24 <Sgeo> Although some of Android's ickiness with multitasking UI isn't actually back button, I guess
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04:19:51 <Sgeo> Wow I am bad at connecting dots. It took until the appearance of a prior character to realize Daughter of White's connection to everything else in Story of Evil
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04:21:22 <Sgeo> She's friends with a ... I want to say murder victim but ... I guess genocide victim although targetted at her is more accurate
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04:27:54 <AndoDaan> It's great when tv can still surprise us. Other than the intrigue, good show?
04:29:18 <Sgeo> Unless you're talking about something else
04:30:24 <Sgeo> I'm enjoying it, but I might not have good taste.
04:30:30 <AndoDaan> I don't watch tv anymore, but I thin maybe I thought you were talking about Person of Interest.
04:31:13 <Sgeo> Ok, things just got weirder.
04:32:17 <Sgeo> Spoilers for Wooden Girl: Gheaf bhg gung ivpgvz jnf n gerr ghearq uhzna.
04:41:06 <Sgeo> I still don't understand Handbeat Clocktower. I was hoping I would understand it.
04:49:04 <Sgeo> Oh look, it's the garbage translation of re_birthday :(
05:01:28 <Sgeo> A 'fan-song' which is just different Japanese lyrics in the video with the original song, and an unreadable Englush translation
05:02:39 <Sgeo> Oh, maybe they did change the lyrics in the song itself too
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05:07:12 <Sgeo> Well, this next fan song is sad, but gets canon wrong severely, in a way critical to its sadness
05:09:36 <Sgeo> Not sure. Doubt it's correct though
05:11:29 <AndoDaan> Strong sense of Deja Vu with this.
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05:40:14 <lambdabot> EFHK 170520Z 02006KT 9999 FEW034 M03/M04 Q1016 NOSIG
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07:40:53 <Sgeo> Is there a scripting language for Automator that is not AppleScript
07:44:32 <Sgeo> http://virtualmacosx.com/index.php/xcode-plans
07:44:36 <Sgeo> Ooh, much cheaper than a real mac
07:45:01 <Sgeo> Assuming it's legitimate
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09:08:10 <Sgeo> Ick the website is so form-over-function
09:08:11 <Sgeo> https://www.apple.com/imac-with-retina/
09:08:17 <Sgeo> Have to scroll to get to -any- content
09:15:35 <ais523> Sgeo: Apple were forced to put a legal notice on their homepage a while back (by court order)
09:15:49 <ais523> they did so, with an image that automatically resized to push the notice below the fold regardless of how big your screen was
09:16:16 <ais523> presumably, after potentially getting in trouble for that, they decided to push everything on every page below the fold so that it wouldn't look suspicious
09:17:43 <fizzie> It looks very neat, but I'd like to know whether the image resolution is correct; they seem to have made that somewhat nontrivial to figure out.
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09:37:26 <fizzie> I guess it's at least close. Some empirical measurement (matching the content of the maximally zoomed-in image to the image with monitor boundaries included) and then extrapolating gave me around 5400x3000, which is reasonably close to the actual 5120x2880 resolution, and could be within the margin of error.
09:38:04 <fizzie> (5120x2880 looks ridiculous as a single-monitor resolution.)
09:40:57 <ais523> that's quite the resolution
09:44:34 <fizzie> Soon the monitor resolutions will go past my camera sensor resolution (5472x3648).
09:51:33 <fizzie> You could argue that the monitor's already past that, because the camera has a total of 5472*3648 actual pixels, with a RGGB color filter on top, while the monitor actually has 5120*3*2880 subpixels.
09:51:39 <fizzie> The school newspaper had access to a digital camera that recorded 640x480 JPGs on a 3.5" floppy.
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10:56:13 <Taneb> I'm going to see Guardians of the Galaxy again tonight
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10:59:48 <boily> Tanelle. why? and why the "Aaaah"?
11:00:43 <Taneb> boily, because it's on on my uni's student cinema
11:00:59 <Taneb> And because I've got like the entire soundtrack stuck in my head
11:07:17 <boily> nothing to worry about, then. it's a good soundtrack.
11:09:55 <Taneb> How are you doing, boily/
11:11:00 <boily> exhausted, but satisfied. we had a big major release Tuesday, and today it's beer to celebrate the occasion.
11:11:41 <boily> http://dental-wings.com/news/sneak-preview-dwos-40
11:13:52 <Taneb> Not the kind of thing I'm in the target audience for, though :)
11:14:47 <boily> it's indeed fancy and shiny ^^
11:16:56 <boily> how's your Friday going on, you who lives in the Future, six hours from now?
11:17:08 <boily> (or is it five away from us in the UK?)
11:17:13 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Fri Oct 17 12:17:13
11:17:40 <Taneb> Well, I'm a little bit ill, but I think I'm almost over this cold
11:19:26 <Taneb> Going to a... I want to say cybersecurity... competition tomorrow
11:20:43 <boily> meanwhile, I need to lâchement abandon you, otherwise I'll be late for the bus.
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11:21:16 <mroman> It should be against the law to galvanize chickens.
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11:50:31 <fizzie> What do people do at cybersecurity competitions?
11:51:09 <Taneb> Sort of puzzles like "Can you make an SQL injection to get the password?"
11:51:36 <fizzie> Oh, okay. Like the sort of thing people do over the web, except real-time and at a place?
11:52:03 <Taneb> Yeah, and in teams
11:53:50 <Taneb> Yeah, it's all staged
11:55:47 <elliott> fizzie: practice safe cybersex
11:56:42 <fizzie> Is there an association like AHA you need to apply for a "No Production Systems Were Harmed" logo for your cybersecurity competition?
12:00:25 <Taneb> This one is being ran by BAE
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13:16:45 <mroman> Some Animals were harmed in the process.
13:17:02 <mroman> Most of them are so small you can't see them with the naked eye.
13:18:09 <int-e> Melvar: I find looking up unicode characters too much of a hassle.
13:19:01 <HackEgo> U+1F5FC TOKYO TOWER \ UTF-8: f0 9f 97 bc UTF-16BE: d83dddfc Decimal: 🗼 \ 🗼 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
13:19:04 <Melvar> int-e: For me it’s just ⎄[] .
13:20:04 <HackEgo> U+1F435 MONKEY FACE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 b5 UTF-16BE: d83ddc35 Decimal: 🐵 \ 🐵 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
13:20:14 <int-e> Melvar: Sure, it's a matter of configuration and training. I simply don't need them; most of my output with fancy symbols is produced with LaTeX anyway.
13:21:03 <Melvar> Heh, I use the symbols when *writing* LaTeX.
13:22:13 <mroman> LaTeX doesn't even have utf8 support
13:22:16 <Melvar> Well, all the ones I know how to easily reach.
13:23:20 <Melvar> Right, I’ve been using inputenc utf8x, but I probably really ought to switch to luaLaTeX or something.
13:38:30 <fizzie> There's not only WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK SMALL SQUARE (the above) but also WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK VERY SMALL SQUARE and WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK MEDIUM SQUARE.
13:39:07 <fizzie> No LARGE or VERY LARGE ones, though. Perhaps the square containing them would have had to be too large.
13:39:45 <fizzie> What, BLACK SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE? Seriously.
13:40:43 <mroman> `unicode WHITE SQUARY CONTAINING BLACK SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE
13:40:48 <mroman> `unicode WHITE SQUARY CONTAINING BLACK
13:40:53 <mroman> `unicode WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK
13:40:54 <HackEgo> U+25A3 WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK SMALL SQUARE \ UTF-8: e2 96 a3 UTF-16BE: 25a3 Decimal: ▣ \ ▣ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
13:41:00 <mroman> `unicode WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK SLIGHTLY
13:41:29 <mroman> `unicode WHITE SQUARE CONTAINING BLACK VERY SMALL
13:41:54 <fizzie> The set of BLACK SQUAREs: BLACK {TINY,VERY SMALL,SMALL,SLIGHTLY SMALL,MEDIUM SMALL,MEDIUM,LARGE} SQUARE.
13:42:01 <fizzie> I'm not sure if that's the correct order.
13:42:29 <fizzie> I guess TINY is smaller than VERY SMALL, but it's hard to say about SMALL vs. MEDIUM SMALL vs. SLIGHTLY SMALL.
13:42:35 <fizzie> Maybe SLIGHTLY SMALL is larger than SMALL?
13:42:54 <fizzie> Maybe MEDIUM SMALL is the same size as plain SMALL? This is confusing.
13:44:02 <TieSoul> the question is whether slightly small is smaller than medium small
13:44:22 <fizzie> There's also {LIGHT,MEDIUM,BOLD,HEAVY,VERY HEAVY,EXTREMELY HEAVY} WHITE SQUARE, and a set of WHITE SQUARE sizes that's slightly (NPI) smaller than that of BLACK SQUARE.
13:44:59 * Melvar is still disappointed that his attempt to embed unicode information in an idris module failed.
13:45:10 <fizzie> For example, a WHITE SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE does not exist, but a WHITE MEDIUM SMALL SQUARE does.
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14:06:47 <mroman> `unicode WHITE SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE
14:06:54 <mroman> WHERE IS THAT SQUARE???!?!?!?
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14:08:07 <TieSoul> `unicode BLACK SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE
14:08:13 <TieSoul> `unicode SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE
14:08:16 <TieSoul> `unicode SLIGHTLY SMALL BLACK SQUARE
14:08:33 <mroman> `unicode WHITE MEDIUM SMALL SQUARE
14:08:52 <TieSoul> `unicode BLACK MEDIUM SMALL SQUARE
14:09:03 <mroman> there's no SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE in geometric shapes
14:09:30 <mroman> just SQUARE, MEDIUM SQUARE, MEDIUM SMALL SQUARE, SMALL SQUARE
14:10:11 <TieSoul> `unicode BLACK TINY SQUARE
14:11:26 <fizzie> It's off there in the supplemental plane.
14:11:56 <fizzie> 1F78D;BLACK SLIGHTLY SMALL SQUARE
14:12:23 <fizzie> HackEgo's tools are deficient due to having a UCS-2 Python build, or so I recall.
14:13:21 <HackEgo> U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 ae UTF-16BE: a66e Decimal: ꙮ \ ꙮ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
14:14:28 <fizzie> `run multicode -x 1F78D
14:14:29 <HackEgo> U+1F78D - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9e 8d UTF-16BE: d83ddf8d Decimal: 🞍 \ 🞍 (🞍) \ Uppercase: U+1F78D \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
14:15:00 <fizzie> I was under the impression that someone installed that tool specifically because it had a built-in database instead of building on the Python module.
14:15:04 <fizzie> Perhaps it's just not new enough.
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15:17:53 <HackEgo> [U+1D6B LATIN SMALL LETTER UE]
15:26:04 <Taneb> I am enjoying learning Racket
15:26:13 <HackEgo> [U+8A9E CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8A9E]
15:31:01 <HackEgo> U+A980 JAVANESE SIGN PANYANGGA \ UTF-8: ea a6 80 UTF-16BE: a980 Decimal: ꦀ \ ꦀ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ \ U+A981 JAVANESE SIGN CECAK \ UTF-8: ea a6 81 UTF-16BE: a981 Decimal: ꦁ \ ꦁ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ \ U+A982 JAVANESE SIGN LAYAR \ UTF
15:31:16 <mroman> no logos for big companies :(
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15:40:52 <blsqbot> ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments!
15:41:16 <blsqbot> {{} 2 3 10 5 11 7 42 15 21 11 43 13 23 29 170 17 47 19 85}
15:41:32 <blsqbot> {1 6 7 52 13 222 15 840 121 858 27 28268 29 894 991 26896 49 113970 51 215892}
15:41:49 <mroman> @oeis 2,3,10,5,11,7,42
15:41:50 <lambdabot> Working in base 2, replace n by the concatenation of its prime divisors in i...
15:42:03 <lambdabot> a(n) is the number whose binary representation is the concatenation of the d...
15:43:30 <mroman> 1 is the number of 1 in itself
15:44:56 <mroman> 2,3 both describe the number of edges/corners in them
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16:03:18 <mroman> whats the unicode sign with the longest name?
16:11:56 <HackEgo> [U+0753 ARABIC LETTER BEH WITH THREE DOTS POINTING UPWARDS BELOW AND TWO DOTS ABOVE]
16:12:00 <b_jonas> that might not be the longest
16:12:09 <b_jonas> you'll have to look at the full database
16:12:33 <Jafet> `run find . -name UnicodeData.txt
16:12:43 <Jafet> `head bin/UnicodeData.txt
16:12:44 <HackEgo> 0000;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;NULL;;;; \ 0001;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;START OF HEADING;;;; \ 0002;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;START OF TEXT;;;; \ 0003;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;END OF TEXT;;;; \ 0004;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;END OF TRANSMISSION;;;; \ 0005;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;ENQUIRY;;;; \ 0006;<control>;Cc;0;BN;;;;;N;ACKNOWLEDGE;;;; \ 0007;<control>;Cc
16:13:09 <b_jonas> no no, use a newest versoin
16:13:23 <Jafet> `wc UnicodeData.txt
16:13:23 <HackEgo> wc: UnicodeData.txt: No such file or directory
16:13:27 <Jafet> `wc bin/UnicodeData.txt
16:13:27 <HackEgo> 24434 109111 1367023 bin/UnicodeData.txt
16:17:02 <Jafet> `run sed 's/[^;]*;\([^;]*\);.*/\1/' bin/UnicodeData.txt | awk '{print length($0) " " $0;}' | sort -nr | cut -d\ -f2-
16:17:03 <HackEgo> ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM \ ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA INITIAL FORM \ ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA FINAL FORM \ CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY \ ARABIC LETTER B
16:17:14 <Jafet> `run sed 's/[^;]*;\([^;]*\);.*/\1/' bin/UnicodeData.txt | awk '{print length($0) " " $0;}' | sort -nr | cut -d\ -f2- | fgrep -v ARABIC
16:17:15 <HackEgo> CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY \ DOWNWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB LEFT BESIDE DOWNWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB RIGHT \ RIGHTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWN ABOVE LEFTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWN \ MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3 \ MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLA
16:18:40 <Bike> what'd arabic ever do to you
16:19:32 <Jafet> It's a very, very long story
16:19:48 <lifthrasiir> how about the random Unicode character name generator
16:21:05 <b_jonas> how many four letter or shorter names are there?
16:23:08 <Bike> `run sed 's/[^;]*;\([^;]*\);.*/\1/' bin/UnicodeData.txt | awk '{print length($0) " " $0;}' | sort -n | cut -d\ -f2-
16:23:09 <HackEgo> OX \ ANT \ ARC \ BOY \ BUG \ BUS \ CAT \ COW \ DOG \ DVD \ EAR \ IMP \ KEY \ LEO \ MAN \ NOR \ PIG \ RAM \ RAT \ SUN \ XOR \ ANKH \ BABY \ BANK \ BATH \ BELL \ BIRD \ BOAR \ BOMB \ DOOR \ EYES \ FIRE \ FISH \ FUSE \ GEAR \ GIRL \ GOAT \ HERB \ JOIN \ JUNO \ KISS \ LOCK \ MEMO \ MINY \ NAND \ NOSE \ ODEN \ PEAR \ PICK \ PILL \ RAIN \ RING \ ROSE \ S
16:23:46 <Bike> "Comments: second of the signs of the Asian zodiac"
16:23:56 <Bike> (asian zodiac what the hell)
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18:00:23 <FireFly> `run sed 's/[^;]*;\([^;]*\);.*/\1/' bin/UnicodeData.txt | awk '{print length($0) " " $0;}' | sort -n | cut -d\ -f2- | wc -l
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18:01:16 <Melvar> `` wc -l bin/UnicodeData.txt
18:02:02 <Melvar> Hm, not the newest I guess.
18:04:18 <FireFly> `run sed 's/[^;]*;\([^;]*\);.*/\1/' bin/UnicodeData.txt | awk '{print length($0) " " $0;}' | grep -P '^[1-4]\b' | wc -l
18:04:22 <mroman> Terve, Fizzie. Mitä kuuluu?
18:04:34 <mroman> (yes, that means the books are here)
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18:06:16 <Melvar> FireFly: See, on my system that says 68.
18:08:18 <FireFly> My system apparently has two copies of UnicodeData.txt, and both are smaller than HackEgo's ._.
18:08:49 <Melvar> “27268 /usr/share/unicode/ucd/UnicodeData.txt”
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19:50:01 <fizzie> I don't like the Euclidean norm problem, since it's so finicky about the floating-point formatting. (And they could've picked something a bit more regular, like fixed-number-of-decimals instead of the %g-style "remove trailing zeros and decimal points" nonsense.)
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19:54:02 <b_jonas> fizzie: that, or provide a more specific result tester than just string comparison (after stripping cariage returns and trailing newlines)
19:54:29 <b_jonas> though you can't do that on anagolf
19:54:42 <fizzie> I don't know, there's already all those special problems.
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19:54:58 <b_jonas> sure, but I mean you can't do that on anagolf without shinh's support
19:55:41 <fizzie> Right, right. Arguably perhaps even a generic "sequence of numbers" problem type could make sense.
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19:56:21 <fizzie> One of the Euclidean norm results goes wrong in the last decimal if you do it with Befunge-98 FPSP single-precision floats.
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22:38:17 <oerjan> beat you on mail merge
22:39:06 <boily> oerjan making “whee” doesn't feel natural. I can't associate an oerjan-whee with the same voice as an oerjan-OKAY.
22:39:09 <oerjan> and i also discovered that it's not entirely safe to err out at the end of the program.
22:39:32 <oerjan> (i got output cut off because of that.)
22:39:34 <int-e> I discovered that, too.
22:41:14 <oerjan> it's worked in previous programs, but i think they mostly used the m@main=getLine>>=...>>m template
22:41:25 <oerjan> so ordering was enforced by IO
22:41:27 <fizzie> oerjan: Turns out the official channel does in fact have a bot that announces all improvements.
22:41:46 <fizzie> Yes. I "bit the bullet" and went there.
22:41:56 <fizzie> [01:37:44] -mircbot_:#anagol- oerjan submits 171B of Haskell for Mail merge, ranking #1 (10000pts).
22:44:26 <int-e> oerjan: Ok, caught up.
22:45:06 <fizzie> First person gets the better rank in case of ties, though, right?
22:45:08 <int-e> just changed a [] to _
22:45:42 <fizzie> elliott: Were you actually serious about wanting my SparcStation and the SGI Indy? I mean, it might be that the relocation package includes a certain volume of shipped goods, so I could theoretically even stick them in there. I'm certainly not using them for anything, that's for sure, and keeping them here in the basement is not all that useful either.
22:46:04 <int-e> oerjan: I got so annoyed about the encoding issues that I stopped improving the program, though it does look pretty tight.
22:46:55 <fizzie> Only 102 bytes to go to reach the practicality of Befunge(-98).
22:47:48 <oerjan> int-e: i briefly considered whether to try importing bytestrings (it's available, and has no encoding issue) but the prelude clashes and the long names means it probably wouldn't have helped.
22:51:35 <oerjan> i also tied henkma on the swapping earlier. let's see if that still holds.
23:00:41 <oerjan> hm actually importing it qualified only makes the whole thing 5 chars longer.
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23:23:57 <oerjan> (not with bytestring though)
23:36:16 <int-e> > map length ["mapM putStrLn","putStr.unlines","interact.const.unlines"]