00:00:00 <ais523\unfoog> what's the definition of "helloworldless"? no characters from "helloworld"?
00:00:04 <elliott> int-e: please, like telling you it's definitely completely possiblew ouldn't have motivated you even more
00:00:09 <int-e> ais523\unfoog: right
00:00:15 <elliott> that's how I got to the solution in the first place, after all
00:00:21 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: "Hello, world!" actually
00:00:36 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: thus no spaces either, which I assume is one of the harder parts
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00:00:41 <ais523\unfoog> although this is Haskell, you have $ to substitute
00:00:49 <elliott> not really hard, you can use tabs usually
00:01:30 <int-e> my first solution didn't have tabs. it extracted a space from the SUDO_COMMAND environment variable...
00:01:55 <int-e> I felt silly after seeing other solutions that used tabs
00:02:41 <oerjan> ais523\unfoog: it turns out that everything is easy to do in haskell _except_ finding an actual output function not containing those chars
00:06:21 <oerjan> except for that, it has both numerical string escapes and map(succ) which would work
00:07:49 <int-e> but succ.succ or pred.pred work.
00:08:00 <oerjan> no, you cannot use pred
00:08:43 <int-e> > map((-1+).(-1+))"Jgnnq.\"yqtnf#"
00:08:45 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char)
00:09:43 <oerjan> > [pred,pred.pred] <*> ["Hello, world!"]
00:09:45 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum [GHC.Types.Char])
00:09:45 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘GHC.Enum.pred’
00:09:54 <oerjan> > [pred,pred.pred] <*> "Hello, world!"
00:09:56 <lambdabot> "Gdkkn+\USvnqkc Fcjjm*\RSumpjb\US"
00:10:47 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character 'R'
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00:11:04 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum [GHC.Types.Char])
00:11:04 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘GHC.Enum.succ’
00:11:41 <oerjan> oh well that's no shorter than \31 and \30
00:11:57 <oerjan> which are presumably easier to remember
00:11:58 <int-e> space, the final frontier, right next after the United States...
00:12:07 <int-e> but it's so nicely obscure.
00:12:28 <int-e> > ("\US0123","\310123")
00:14:07 <oerjan> > map length["map(succ)\"G\\99kkn+\\USvnqkc\"","map(succ.succ)\"Fcjjm*\\RSumpjb\\US\""]
00:14:26 <oerjan> looks like two succs isn't worth it
00:15:20 <int-e> succ less, quote more
00:16:00 <oerjan> i forgot the final ' ' of the first
00:16:15 <oerjan> > map length["map(succ)\"G\\99kkn+\\USvnqkc\32\"","map(succ.succ)\"Fcjjm*\\RSumpjb\\US\""]
00:16:24 <oerjan> > map length["map(succ)\"G\\99kkn+\\USvnqkc\32\"","map(succ.succ)\"Fcjjm*\\RSumpjb\\US\""]
00:16:41 <oerjan> > map length["map(succ)\"G\\99kkn+\\USvnqkc\\32\"","map(succ.succ)\"Fcjjm*\\RSumpjb\\US\""]
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00:23:18 <HackEgo> bananagram: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:26:54 <HackEgo> vanila: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:27:43 <elliott> int-e: haha, I like that SUDO_COMMAND thing
00:35:29 <vanila> http://lpaste.net/raw/113500
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00:49:53 <ais523\unfoog> how do you iterate over dictionary keys in JavaScript?
00:50:12 <oerjan> `fetch http://lpaste.net/raw/113500
00:50:14 <HackEgo> 2014-10-31 00:50:07 URL:http://lpaste.net/raw/113500 [2316] -> "113500" [1]
00:50:36 <int-e> so it converts brainfuck to C, neat.
00:51:39 <HackEgo> find: `esobf8': No such file or directory
00:51:52 <Sgeo> ais523\unfoog: for in and checking hasOwnProperty? Or do you mean an actual Map?
00:52:13 <Sgeo> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Statements/for...in
00:52:17 <Sgeo> for (variable in object) {... }
00:52:22 <lifthrasiir> for (var key in {a:1, b:2}) console.log(key); // a, b
00:52:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/ibin/bf8
00:53:03 <oerjan> `run echo ",[.,]" | interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 113500
00:53:03 <HackEgo> #include <stdio.h> \ #include <stdint.h> \ uint8_t a[1024]={0};uint8_t*p=a;main(){setbuf(stdout,NULL);*p=getchar();while(*p){putchar(*p);*p=getchar();}}
00:53:34 <Sgeo> ais523\unfoog: pastie sample?
00:54:11 <Sgeo> Had to delete the b in the comment, because Chrome was trying to autocomplete it when I pressed enter
00:54:15 <vanila> its cool how the bot downloaded and ran it
00:54:16 <Sgeo> print is not a statement
00:54:25 <Sgeo> Use console.log()
00:54:27 <lifthrasiir> ais523\unfoog: console.log(y); should work
00:54:49 <Sgeo> Except in IE where you should check for the existence of console first
00:54:56 <oerjan> vanila: HackEgo runs nearly arbitrary linux commands
00:55:25 <ais523\unfoog> oerjan: well, it runs arbitrary commands, just those commands don't always do what you'd expect
00:55:31 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
00:56:58 <vanila> It would be nice to write a brainfuck to assembly compiler, but it's harder because you have to match brackets
00:57:42 <ais523\unfoog> the hard part is the forward jumps when a [ condition doesn't match
00:58:27 <Sgeo> If I ever get around to writing a Braintrust impl. in Clozure CL like I intend at some point, that serves for allowing brainfuck compilers to be written in brainfuck that compile to machine code
00:58:37 <Sgeo> Without any knowledge of actual machine code
00:58:47 <Sgeo> Although I wonder if using a lisp like that is 'cheating'
00:59:31 <fungot> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Braintrust
01:00:19 <oerjan> one of the more interesting brainfuck derivatives
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01:01:35 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover couldn't stand for that, naturally
01:01:41 <vanila> would that turn a self interpreter into a compiler?
01:01:58 <vanila> I don't really understand the (!) thing
01:02:44 <Sgeo> ! takes the stored up commands and compiles them. So, if the target is Haskell, and ! gets executed, Haskell code will get output, corresponding to the program in the code block
01:03:16 <Sgeo> The crucial thing is that the language that ! compiles in the code block is the -current- language, not necessarily Braintrust
01:04:27 <vanila> so that puts 99% of the effort onto the implementation?
01:04:42 <Sgeo> Including any knowledge of what the target is
01:04:55 <vanila> but how would you go from a brainfuck compiler in braintrust, to a brainfuck compiler in brainfuck? Or is that not possible
01:05:16 <Sgeo> So, the same Braintrust program can be a Brainfuck derivative 346 to machine code compiler, and a Brainfuck derivative 346 to Haskell compiler
01:06:44 <Sgeo> Vanilla brainfuck doesn't have instructions for 'compile this code'
01:07:38 <vanila> so you need to implement braintrust interpreter in brainfuck - then you can compile the self applicable braintrust compiler to get a brainfuck compiler in brainfuck?
01:07:43 <int-e> once you start stacking implementations, which one of those is the regarded as the "current" one?
01:08:37 <Sgeo> The one used to compile the program that is currently executing
01:08:47 <Sgeo> The Haskell impl stores a stack of each implementation
01:12:32 <vanila> that's really cool though
01:13:02 <Sgeo> So, suppose the compiler stack is BT, L0, L1, L2. A program P is in the code block. ! is basically BT(L0(L1(L2(P))))
01:13:08 <Sgeo> Where BT is the primitive compiler
01:13:14 <Sgeo> vanila: thank you
01:14:53 <elliott> why can't ! pick any old language/
01:14:58 <Sgeo> It's all inspired by Reflections on Trusting Trust
01:15:00 <elliott> rather than being restricted to the implementation language
01:15:23 <Sgeo> elliott: hmm... a second code block for the language to use?
01:15:28 <elliott> what I mean is: if I write a haskell braintrust interpreter, and compile it to C, is it no longer a braintrust interperter?
01:15:35 <elliott> because ! should be outputting C, but it's outputting haskell
01:16:00 <elliott> possibly I don't understand braintrust at all.
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01:17:00 <Sgeo> elliott: if... I understand properly, this is just a definitions issue. I think. But the primitive compiler doesn't need to be written in the target language, I think.
01:17:30 <Sgeo> (If it does, then that's a spec bug)
01:19:56 <Sgeo> What I would think interesting is somehow decoupling ! in such a way that ! requires its input to be primitives, but somehow extra commands that make it simple to do the quineiness needed for something that behaves as this !
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02:22:51 <Jafet> > logBase 2 (10**9 * 26**7)
02:23:28 -!- bananagram has left ("WeeChat 0.4.3").
02:23:56 <oerjan> that should fit nicely
02:25:54 <vanila> i just invented an esolang
02:26:16 <vanila> its called edwardk-oriented-programming
02:27:45 <oerjan> > let f(m,n)=logBase (10^m * 26^n) in maximumBy f [(m,n)| m<-[0..64],n<-[0..64], f(m,n)<=64]
02:27:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘(b, b1)’ with ‘GHC.Types.Ordering’
02:27:47 <lambdabot> Expected type: (b, b1) -> (b, b1) -> GHC.Types.Ordering
02:27:47 <lambdabot> Actual type: (b, b1) -> (b, b1) -> (b, b1)
02:28:02 <oerjan> > let f(m,n)=logBase (10^m * 26^n) in maximumBy (comparing f) [(m,n)| m<-[0..64],n<-[0..64], f(m,n)<=64]
02:28:03 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (GHC.Classes.Ord (a0 -> a0))
02:28:04 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘Data.Ord.comparing’
02:28:04 <lambdabot> from the context (GHC.Real.Integral b1, GHC.Real.Integral b)
02:28:04 <lambdabot> it :: (GHC.Real.Integral b1, GHC.Real.Integral b) => (b, b1)
02:28:39 <oerjan> > let f(m,n)=logBase 2 (10^m * 26^n) in maximumBy (comparing f) [(m,n)| m<-[0..64],n<-[0..64], f(m,n)<=64]
02:29:08 <oerjan> > logBase (10^15*26^3)
02:29:14 <oerjan> > logBase 2 (10^15*26^3)
02:30:22 <oerjan> vanila: http://cokmett.github.io/cokmett/
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02:33:16 <oerjan> shachaf got a haskell overload
02:34:05 <oerjan> vanila: have you seen Taneb's proof that lens functions are turing complete
02:34:33 <oerjan> actually i'm not sure _i_ have, did he finish it
02:36:01 <oerjan> also i am still wondering if that cokmett thing is statistically guaranteed to stop, i couldn't find the source code from which the javascript was generated
02:38:23 <oerjan> hm the google hits give logs for this channel
02:39:23 -!- shachaf has joined.
02:41:32 <oerjan> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-02-17#092119Taneb
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02:41:59 <oerjan> it seems google _is_ currently crawling the channel logs, both tunes and codu
02:42:06 <oerjan> that didn't use to be the case
02:42:34 * Sgeo always googles the logs
02:44:36 <oerjan> i guess this means i'll have to stop complaining they're no longer in HackEgo
02:44:52 <oerjan> well, or scale it down somewhat.
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02:56:58 <int-e> > [n|a<-[0..4],b<-[0..9],c<-[0..9],n<-[a*100+b*10+c],n==0||n`mod`(a+b+c)`elem`[0,a,a+b]]
02:57:00 <lambdabot> [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,17,18,20,21,22,24,26,27,30,31,33,35,36,39,4...
02:57:39 <int-e> far too long, of course, but faster than henkma's
02:57:55 <oerjan> hm i thought there would be such a formula
02:58:30 <int-e> I have a fairly neat show- and read-free version, but it's 76 characters long.
02:58:45 <int-e> the speed seems about right though
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03:02:47 <oerjan> btw it's better to use the mod prefix there
03:05:07 <oerjan> fromEnum is so stupidly long :(
03:05:09 <int-e> and it's worthwhile to factor out the [0..9]
03:05:35 <oerjan> but might still be better than that
03:06:36 <int-e> I wouldn't paste a serious contender, not intentionally anyway
03:08:07 <oerjan> you don't have fix, mind you
03:08:10 <int-e> I wonder why fix is not in the Prelude.
03:08:23 <int-e> import Data.Function ...
03:09:27 <oerjan> i haven't yet seen any case where importing was best when it was _possible_ without
03:09:50 <oerjan> although i had a single char difference once
03:10:15 <int-e> > let f a | c <- b = c where b = a in f "arg"
03:10:39 <int-e> oerjan: Data.List.sort, when required, is worth it.
03:30:31 <int-e> meh perhaps I should submit head -c790 /dev/random and see if I get lucky...
03:31:36 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
03:32:03 <lambdabot> It could refer to either ‘Data.List.insert’,
03:32:04 <lambdabot> imported from ‘Data.List’ at /home/lambda/.lambdabot/State/L.hs:91:1-16
03:32:11 <lambdabot> ‘Prelude.sqrt’ (imported from Prelude),
03:32:52 <int-e> > length "{-#OPTION -F -pgmFsh #-}\nhead /dev/random>$2"
03:32:54 <lambdabot> It could refer to either ‘GHC.List.length’,
03:32:54 <lambdabot> imported from ‘Data.List’ at L.hs:91:1-16
03:32:54 <lambdabot> (and originally defined in ‘base:GHC.List’)
03:33:01 <int-e> > length "{-#OPTION -F -pgmFsh #-}\nhead /dev/random>$2"
03:33:23 <int-e> > length "{-#OPTION -F -pgmFsh#-}\nhead /dev/random>$2"
03:33:28 <elliott> int-e: coming soon to anagol: control the entropy pool
03:33:39 <elliott> how much information can you stuff into $$
03:33:47 <elliott> maybe you can shave off a few bytes with that
03:36:45 <int-e> > length "{-#OPTION -F -pgmFsh#-}\nhead /dev/r*om>$2" -- /dev/ra*m works, too
03:36:58 <int-e> > length "{-#OPTION -F -pgmFsh#-}\nhead /*/r*om>$2" -- /*/ra*m works, too
03:40:03 <elliott> int-e: does OPTION without the S work?
03:41:00 <elliott> int-e: I bet you could inject some state into the system by, like, contacting some daemon or using some setuid program that keeps some kind of cache.
03:41:06 <elliott> and then fish a cheat out of there.
03:53:13 <int-e> neat. you called forbidden system call (socketcall).
03:54:07 <int-e> ok, enough curiosity
03:59:53 <oerjan> oh duh, it's up to 500, not including
04:00:08 <oerjan> not that it makes a difference for lenght
04:02:00 <oerjan> so nicely fast, but 84 chars
04:04:47 <int-e> elliott: you can store some information in the kernel message buffer if you like. that's the only hole I've found so far. there seem to be no writable directories, no network access, and forked processes seem to get cleaned up after each job is done.
04:05:14 <elliott> int-e: sysv ipc was a hole that used to work
04:05:36 <elliott> how can you get arbitrary stuff into the kernel message buffer?
04:05:48 <elliott> http://john.freml.in/codegolf-cheating
04:07:13 <oerjan> although this isn't short i just love my use of scanr main=mapM print$0:[n|n<-[1..499],t:s<-[scanr(+)0[read[c]|c<-show n]],mod(-n)t`elem`s]
04:07:43 <oerjan> it's not a function frequently used
04:08:35 <vanila> what are you implementing
04:08:48 <oerjan> vanila: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Belgian+Numbers
04:11:23 <int-e> oerjan: oh, I have an extra pair of () in my version of that: main=mapM_ print$0:[n|n<-[1..499],(x:r)<-[scanr(+)0[read[c]|c<-show n]],mod(-n)x`elem`r]
04:12:19 <oerjan> also an extra _, i see
04:23:46 <int-e> right. the last thing I did with it was count the number of bytes of the expected output. runhaskell prints the result of mapM, too.
04:26:55 <coppro> problem 8 here is pretty good to golf: https://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~cs241/a6/
04:27:08 <coppro> my record is 53 characters of perl, but I think that's with a trailing \n
04:27:33 <int-e> elliott: I was hoping for core dumps, but the best way is probably to use the "socket" limitation and try to connect to a couple of IP addresses; those can then be found in the kernel log.
04:28:27 <coppro> @tell Gregor Have you challenged your students go golf assignment 6 problem 8 yet?
04:36:49 <int-e> elliott: /proc/sys/kernel/msgmax reads 0, so I guess those message queues have been plugged.
04:54:13 <ais523\unfoog> are there any non-hg-based persistence mechanisms in HackEgo?
05:00:34 <zzo38> To make "Helloworldless Hello world" with SQL, is this it? SELECT+X'48656C6C6F2C20576F726C6421'; Is there shorter way?
05:04:22 <ais523\unfoog> is the hellowordlessness requirement case-sensitive?
05:04:33 <ais523\unfoog> if it is, you could do it in INTERCAL pretty easily
05:04:41 <ais523\unfoog> if it isn't, you can't, because you can't write any valid statement identifier
05:04:48 <zzo38> The check is case-sensitive
05:05:15 <zzo38> (Look at examples to see that)
05:05:32 <zzo38> Therefore, "SELECT" should be acceptable. But, commas and spaces are prohibited.
05:13:54 <zzo38> I am sure it is completely impossible in Unlambda, though.
05:20:37 <int-e> elliott: I found a better hole: http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Helloworldless+Hello+world/int-e+%28cheat+horribly%29_1414732809&sh
05:21:48 <int-e> unquoted: crontab -l | cut -c 2-
05:22:09 <int-e> but o, r, l and space are not allowed.
05:22:22 <int-e> ais523\unfoog: yes!
05:23:04 <ais523\unfoog> now I'm wondering if shinh.org is busy hello-worlding every minute
05:23:30 <int-e> I made it a comment.
05:24:22 <int-e> ("Hello, world!" has the wrong format for a crontab anyway)
05:24:42 <coppro> can you abuse the crontab to get a zero-length entry?>
05:25:06 <zzo38> Perhaps you can report it, so that they can fix that bug
05:25:17 <int-e> unlikely, mostly because the program files are not writable by the golf user
05:25:27 <zzo38> I doubt you can get a zero-length entry
05:25:46 <ais523\unfoog> it seems like crontab abuse would allow for a universal submission, in a less hilariously-unlikely-to-work way than outputting a random number of random charactres
05:32:55 <int-e> ais523\unfoog: and yes, it's a worse sandbox; it looks like just sudo, perhaps in connection with a chroot.
05:33:18 <int-e> (make that probably)
05:33:25 <ais523\unfoog> I'd been informed that anagolf's sandbox was really incredibly complex
05:33:58 <coppro> just spin up a new VM for each entry
05:35:06 <int-e> ais523\unfoog: the complexity seems to be in the syscall auditing, http://shinhoge.blogspot.jp/2014/10/sandbox-of-my-golf-server.html
05:36:29 <ais523\unfoog> I like the bit where shinh redefined what getpriority and setpriority do to allow communication with the kernel, rather than adding a procfile
05:39:26 <int-e> I was looking for some unused pipe special file that the golf user can write to, but I didn't find any.
05:42:38 <int-e> *counts negations* "I don't think my server is not uncheatable"
05:46:53 <HackEgo> crontab: your UID isn't in the passwd file. \ bailing out.
05:47:31 <HackEgo> cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory
05:47:38 <HackEgo> total 8 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4096 Jan 29 2014 alternatives \ drwxr-xr-x 5 0 0 4096 Jan 29 2014 java-6-openjdk
05:48:03 <HackEgo> agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \
05:48:26 <int-e> `` ls -lad /dev/shm/
05:48:26 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /dev/shm/: No such file or directory
05:48:42 <int-e> `` mount | grep tmpfs
05:48:43 <HackEgo> tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime)
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06:07:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:FakeASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40732&oldid=40725 * Rdebath * (+829)
06:09:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:FakeASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40733&oldid=40732 * Rdebath * (+65) /* Um Esoteric Language ? */
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06:28:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:FakeASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40734&oldid=40733 * CosmoConsole * (+475)
06:35:34 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/search?q=aurora+borealis&sort=relevance&t=all
06:35:57 <Sgeo> I ... still think a solar eclipse is higher up on my bucket list... but aurora is so much more achievable
06:36:11 <Sgeo> So far my bucket list consists of two items anyway
06:37:12 <ais523\unfoog> I remember a partial solar eclipse visible in the UK
06:39:03 <Sgeo> I stared directly at a partial solar eclipse when I was a kid
06:39:05 <Sgeo> Maybe for one second
06:54:37 <fizzie> There was a total solar eclipse in Finland in 1990, I vaguely remember being up at some unlikely hour watching it at our summer place.
06:56:57 <fizzie> (It was in June, and this was... well, not quite northern Finland but a third of a way up there, so sunrise was at 3:44am; I think the eclipse was around 5am.)
07:01:28 <ais523\unfoog> fizzie: right, I was going to say "solar eclipses only happen in daytime by definition", but forgot how weird daytime can be at extreme latitutdes
07:02:16 <fizzie> I wouldn't go as far as to call it "extreme", it isn't even within the arctic circle.
07:03:01 <fizzie> Sunrise at 3:44am and sunset at 10:27pm, and proper (civil) dusk for a bit less than two hours, apparently.
07:03:04 <Sgeo> I think if I see it once, I might be disinclined to try again
07:03:07 <fizzie> (For the day of that eclipse.)
07:03:19 <Sgeo> It's why I'm not so enthusiastic about lunar eclipses, I think. Saw one as a kid
07:03:31 <Sgeo> Or maybe those aren't as pretty
07:04:09 <fizzie> Next total solar eclipse visible from Finland is apparently from 2126 (and an annular one at 2039).
07:05:20 <fizzie> s/at 2/in 2/ probably too.
07:05:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:FakeASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40735&oldid=40734 * CosmoConsole * (+497)
07:05:28 <fizzie> It's like my preposition engine is totally random.
07:07:56 <oerjan> get better on languages with trusting at your intuition
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07:58:43 <b_jonas> good, fizzie submitted a bash solution
07:58:56 <b_jonas> and it's only 29 shorter than my perl solution, heh
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09:03:26 <Taneb> You know how earlier in the week I had a dream where someone told me to drink more alcohol?
09:03:45 <Taneb> Then the following evening someone messaged me on Facebook to tell me to drink more alcohol?
09:03:48 <Taneb> Last night I discovered something.
09:04:00 <Taneb> I am not very good at drinking alcohol.
09:04:28 <Taneb> (I'm a serious lightweight)
09:06:20 <oerjan> at least you're following your dreams!
09:07:28 <Taneb> Happily light-headed after half a pint, not so happily light-headed after 2
09:08:10 <Taneb> This wasn't very strong beer at all, even
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09:11:54 <jameseb> Taneb: maybe you should start slowly with drinking
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10:59:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FakeASM]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40736&oldid=40730 * CosmoConsole * (-12) better Fibonacci sequence
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11:08:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FakeASM]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40737&oldid=40736 * CosmoConsole * (+54) /* Instruction list */ fixed typo and elaborated on L/Sxy
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11:56:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40738&oldid=40186 * 37.130.224.202 * (+20) /* General languages */
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12:34:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Asterisks]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40739 * 37.130.224.202 * (+369) It's a joke
12:36:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Asterisks]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40740&oldid=40739 * 37.130.224.202 * (+10) sppopy
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12:44:41 <ais523\unfoog> http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Befunge-Programmer-jobs.asp
12:45:25 <ais523\unfoog> "All ExpertRating Certified Professionals who appear for a paid test or who purchase a certificate after taking a free test are provided with a high quality paper certificate of accomplishment which is fit for mounting."
12:45:36 <J_Arcane> But, they're ISO9001! That means QUALITY! :D
12:45:49 <ais523\unfoog> OK, now I know that if someone turns up with one of their certificates, they almost certainly are trying to scam me into thinking they know how to program
12:47:21 <ais523\unfoog> oh wow, they don't actually have a test about Befunge programming specifically, despite claiming they do
12:47:29 <ais523\unfoog> just a " Find out how well suited you are for Befunge Programmer jobs."
12:49:55 <ais523\unfoog> <http://cgibin.erols.com/ziring/cgi-bin/cep/cep.pl?_key=INTERCAL> Intercal has no comment syntax, but it is possible to get the effect of a comment by beginning a line with Please Note by taking advantage of the "Not" in "Note".
12:50:30 <ais523\unfoog> at this rate I'm going to have to write an academic paper about esolangs just so I can cite it in Wikipedia
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13:01:54 <b_jonas> ais523: oh, brilliant, they include an image of an example diploma with three signatures and the text "Visual Basic 6.0 certification"
13:03:50 <b_jonas> ais523: they also have http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Intercal-Programmer-jobs.asp but apparently I can't just replace "Intercal" in the url with a random name to get a valid page generated on the fly... maybe they need a certified web programmer to implement that
13:04:24 <fizzie> "Since there are a lot of Befunge Programmer job seekers, extra credentials count."
13:04:59 <b_jonas> they don't sem to have a page for Perl or PERL or PHP or Python tohugh
13:05:34 <fizzie> Well, y'see, the ENTERPRISE no longer uses Perl, it's all been replaced with Befunge and INTERCAL.
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13:05:53 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, with ruby: http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Ruby-Programmer-jobs.asp
13:10:16 <b_jonas> fizzie: look at the topicsof the course in http://www.expertrating.com/certifications/InstructorLed/Database-Management-Programming/C-Plus-Plus-Programming-Introduction-to/C-Plus-Plus-Programming-Introduction-to.asp
13:14:46 <Taneb> I keep thinking about how to formally verify brainfuck, then realising I do not know very much about formal verification
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13:33:36 <fizzie> "Using Pointers to Watch the Addresses of Your Variables"
13:36:22 <b_jonas> fizzie: yep, they provide such lessons
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13:45:23 <Taneb> How do IRC logging bot store the logs?
13:48:26 <fizzie> That would depend on the bot in question, but raw protocol-level logs (with just timestamps and maybe other metadata added) are not a bad idea, since other formats can be lossy.
13:49:13 <fizzie> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2014-10-31-raw.txt is I think the actual "physical" format glogbot uses.
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15:32:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40741&oldid=40562 * 93.221.252.196 * (+1473) /* Added python 3.x interpreter*/
15:33:41 <mroman> fungot: How long have you been here?
15:33:41 <fungot> mroman: ' what'd i be if i broke a deal?' said
15:33:59 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
15:42:09 <mroman> fungot: Help! I lost my keys.
15:42:10 <fungot> mroman: they were discussing strategy when rincewind arrived. the consensus seemed to be more alert to the ways of regicide and coup, no matter what your skills, there was the sound of her breathing at all.
15:46:23 <mroman> fungot: How's that gonna help my find my RSA Bluetooth keys?
15:46:23 <fungot> mroman: " um. he hasn't got up here, there were plenty of others below it, yellow flames sprang up.
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16:14:24 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
16:14:37 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
16:17:32 <int-e> fungot bread, or taxes?
16:17:32 <fungot> int-e: a sudden gloom fnord the professor's jolly face. " but he does go right under," the cat said, waving the right paw ' round, if you don't hold your tongues, i'll pick you!'
16:18:04 <int-e> fungot: try that again
16:18:04 <fungot> int-e: " you are quite right," he replied, " only one doesn't like changing so often, moving so fnord about, and muttering like the fnord of snarks should be tried!") was the universal cry.
16:18:23 <int-e> fungot: one more time please
16:18:24 <fungot> int-e: i saw we should have no more gardening if i let this sort of thing. he's been fnord fnord, were moving slowly upwards, in solemn procession: while a mild little brook, that had resolved to bring conviction to a ghost, seeing but fnord.
16:22:52 <mroman> is there a javascript bot here?
16:24:11 <fizzie> Somebody stuck a Rhino in HackEgo, but it seems to have bitrotted.
16:24:14 <HackEgo> Error occurred during initialization of VM \ java/lang/NoClassDefFoundError: java/lang/Object
16:24:23 <HackEgo> Error occurred during initialization of VM \ java/lang/NoClassDefFoundError: java/lang/Object
16:24:33 <fizzie> It's not a javascript-level error.
16:25:03 <mroman> if java.lang.Object can't be found...
16:26:37 <fizzie> `run java -classpath /usr/share/java/js.jar:/usr/share/java/jline.jar org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main -e '42;'
16:26:53 <fizzie> I don't know how to output in Rhino -- there's no "console" -- but that seems to work.
16:27:06 <fizzie> I think the bootclasspath hack in bin/js just has broken.
16:27:54 <fizzie> `run java -classpath /usr/share/java/js.jar:/usr/share/java/jline.jar org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main -e 'print(1+1);'
16:28:06 <mroman> `run java -classpath /usr/share/java/js.jar:/usr/share/java/jline.jar org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main -e 'print(42);'
16:28:14 <mroman> ah. you already found out print
16:28:32 <mroman> `run java -classpath /usr/share/java/js.jar:/usr/share/java/jline.jar org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main -e 'undefined = 1; print(undefined);'
16:28:37 <fizzie> `run sed -i -e '22s/$JAVA_OPTS //' bin/js
16:28:48 <fizzie> `js var x = 1 + 2; print(x);
16:29:11 <mroman> `js print(undefined = 1);
16:29:29 <mroman> `js print((undefined = 1) == undefined);
16:29:47 <mroman> `js print((x = 1) == x);
16:30:00 <mroman> `js print((NaN = 1) == NaN);
16:30:09 <fizzie> It's a read-only property or something?
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16:30:23 <mroman> you can assign stuff to it legally at least
16:30:32 <vanila> Could you recommend a turing complete subset of GHCs typesystem?
16:33:17 <mroman> `js var f={};print(f.constructor);
16:33:19 <HackEgo> function Object() { [native code for Object.Object, arity=1] }
16:33:52 <mroman> `js var f={};a='foo';f[a]+=1;print(f[a]);
16:35:15 <mroman> `js var f={};f[NaN]=NaN;print(f);
16:35:24 <mroman> `js var f={};f[NaN]=NaN;print(f[NaN]);
16:35:52 <mroman> `js var f={};f[(NaN=1)]=NaN;print(f[NaN]);
16:36:24 <mroman> javascript is such an ugly language (:
16:41:47 <vanila> I wanted to compile prolog to haskell typclasses, but it doesnt do backtracking
16:48:27 <HackEgo> 116) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on \ 164) <Gregor> "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is a vital part of the web ecosystem. However, bear in min
16:48:50 <HackEgo> 32) <ehird> `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny <HackEgo> How hard is that \ 71) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 306) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a gira
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16:59:03 <HackEgo> 768) <mroman> You can't quote me. \ 1139) <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom <Bike> ass is an urban legend \ 1218) <mroman_> Rule of thumb is that if I can understand it you're not using enough fancy stuff \ 1221) <mroman_> piece of cake doing this stuff in Burlesque :P [19 lines later] <mroman_> I hate Burlesque :(
16:59:37 <mroman> I publicly deny ever having said 1221 of course.
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17:45:04 <FireFly> `js print(Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(this, 'NaN').writable
17:45:07 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ) after argument list \ js: print(Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(this, 'NaN').writable \ js: ..........................................................^
17:45:07 <FireFly> `js print(Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(this, 'NaN').writable)
17:45:35 <FireFly> `js "use strict"; NaN = 1; print("test")
17:46:04 <FireFly> Oh, it might be the implementation being older than ES5
17:46:45 <FireFly> `js --version 2>&1 | grep Vers
17:46:48 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ; before statement \ js: --version 2>&1 | grep Vers \ js: ...........^
17:46:49 <FireFly> `` js --version 2>&1 | grep Vers
17:47:03 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/js: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
17:47:36 <FireFly> That would explain things, I was thinking SpiderMonkey first
17:47:55 <fizzie> Probably also not very new.
17:51:01 <Melvar> Wait, that second one wasn’t right at all …
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17:56:31 <^v> keep forgetting this existsx
17:58:12 <int-e> `js print ([1,2]+{})[1]
17:58:15 <HackEgo> 1,2[object Object] \ js: uncaught JavaScript runtime exception: TypeError: Cannot read property "1.0" from undefined
17:58:24 <int-e> `js print ([1,2]+{})["1"]
17:58:27 <HackEgo> 1,2[object Object] \ js: uncaught JavaScript runtime exception: TypeError: Cannot read property "1" from undefined
18:04:58 <fizzie> `js print(([1,2]+{})[1]) // possibly what you were looking for?
18:07:18 <int-e> So that's what's going on, everything is interpolated into a string. Yuck.
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18:59:55 <fizzie> I just wrote a perl oneliner that *really* should've been a script, but I had started it as perl -e and it would have felt like a quitter move to stop.
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19:28:42 <FireFly> Melvar: if you expected 0 for {} + [] , that's because of ASI and REPLs processing lines as statements rather than expressions
19:29:05 <FireFly> when it's wrapped in a print function call, it can't be a statement
19:29:16 <Melvar> FireFly: Right, I noticed.
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