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00:12:18 <HackEgo> 55) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### <FireFly> Meh * FireFly dies \ 1085) <fungot> boily: so i guess a really savvy glass programmer could make some money, maybe start a home based business of a profiler to spot outright dead code. macro-generated code often has big swaths of it. i'd hate learning cobol and fortran just fo
00:12:34 <int-e> `quote mapole | wc -l
00:12:40 <int-e> ` ` quote mapole | wc -l
00:12:40 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
00:12:41 <int-e> `` quote mapole | wc -l
00:12:43 <FireFly> Huh, is that quote _that_ old
00:13:04 <int-e> There are no mapole quotes?!
00:13:12 <Jafet> `run quote mapole | wc -l
00:13:19 * int-e wants to hit something.
00:13:34 <int-e> Jafet: `` and `run are pretty much the same
00:13:46 <int-e> (except that `run seems to be built into HackEgo)
00:14:18 <FireFly> I kind-of want to add "There are no mapole quotes?!" to the qdb
00:14:39 <int-e> You have to get it past the mods.
00:15:40 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards.
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01:02:45 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
01:02:55 <HackEgo> 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order.
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01:10:41 <Sgeo> Person who keeps endorsing me for stuff on LinkedIn just endorsed me for PHP
01:10:52 <Sgeo> Now I'm certain they're just clicking endorse all the time
01:11:04 <shachaf> copumpkin endorsed me for PHP as a joke.
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01:11:56 <shachaf> copumpkin: if i get a php job i'll blame you
01:12:20 <copumpkin> hah okay I'll keep that in mind :)
01:34:43 * oerjan swats FireFly for linking to an arxiv pdf instead of the abstract page -----###
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01:35:11 <oerjan> (which would have been http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.2832 hth)
01:36:31 <oerjan> he has special swatter attraction powers
01:36:47 <oerjan> (also, you _should_ always link to the abstract hth)
01:38:32 <shachaf> http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/17/207546.1-lg.jpg hth
01:43:12 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
01:43:24 <oerjan> only because it took me far too long to get it
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01:49:49 <Sgeo> I don't get it
01:58:54 <zzo38> Make up more kind of pokemon cards, including SUPER IMPOSTER PROFESSOR OAK and RANDOM ENERGY and so on.
01:59:58 <shachaf> What does SUPER IMPOSTER PROFESSOR OAK do?
02:00:10 <shachaf> And is it the same as IMPOSTER SUPER PROFESSOR OAK?
02:00:19 <shachaf> (Make up that kind of card too.)
02:00:22 <zzo38> Opponent can draw ten cards, I suppose, instead of just seven.
02:00:56 <zzo38> (Sort of like how SUPER POTION can remove two damage and SUPER ENERGY REMOVAL can remove two opponent's energy cards.)
02:01:14 <shachaf> I don't know how Pokémon cards work.
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02:03:34 <zzo38> (Actually SUPER POTION remove four damage; the normal POTION can take out just one damage)
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02:04:48 <FireFly> oerjan: probably a good idea, but I saw a link to the pdf elsewhere
02:06:09 <FireFly> That is, two damage counters
02:10:09 <oerjan> Sgeo: he didn't link to the abstract, but <fill in here>
02:11:10 <zzo38> FireFly: Yes, two damage counters. I know that; I just made a second mistake somehow, I don't know why
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03:12:57 <quintopia> zzo38: did you ever play Waving Hands
03:13:14 <zzo38> quintopia: I have read about it
03:14:34 <quintopia> i want to find a way to play online (not email)
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03:22:56 <zzo38> Did my message get through?
03:24:42 <Sgeo> Does F# have the weird method/function distinction Scala has where methods can do all sorts of things except be first class?
03:35:44 * Sgeo installs Visual Studio Community
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03:40:49 <int-e> > map(map length.group)$replicateM 4[True,False] -- so wrong
03:40:50 <lambdabot> [[4],[3,1],[2,1,1],[2,2],[1,1,2],[1,1,1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3],[1,3],[1,2,1],[1,1,...
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03:47:28 <coppro> Sgeo: is that scala thing due to the way the bitcode works?
03:47:49 <Sgeo> coppro: no idea
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04:52:24 <zzo38> Why does the AI in Pokemon Card GB2 use FULL HEAL ENERGY so badly? Just now, while their active pokemon card was confused, they instead attached it to a bench pokemon card which requires only electric energy for its attacks.
04:52:32 <zzo38> (That card could not evolve, either.)
04:57:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ATZ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40913&oldid=40907 * Thatguy25252525 * (+157)
04:57:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40914&oldid=40913 * Thatguy25252525 * (+1)
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05:12:29 <J_Arcane> zzo38: AI was pretty bad in the first one too, and actively cheated. Never played GB2 though, didn't read Japanese.
05:13:15 <zzo38> Yes, although in the new one it is even worse; they run out of cards too often.
05:13:56 <zzo38> (First one also had no FULL HEAL ENERGY card.)
05:16:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40915&oldid=40914 * Thatguy25252525 * (+0)
05:16:35 <zzo38> But maybe even the AI for cheating is bad.
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06:05:19 <quintopia> zzo38: why don't you write your own AI for it. i bet you could make one that doesn't suck
06:10:17 <zzo38> quintopia: I am not so good at writing AI
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06:40:13 <zzo38> nyuszika7h: What what?
06:41:14 <nyuszika7h> 00:33:11 <elliott> whoa, nyuszika7h has been here before? <-- yeah, I was here before, though I don't seem to remember that quote :P
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08:05:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Portal 2]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40916 * Rdebath * (+357) /* Is this proven TC ? */ new section
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08:37:20 <mroman> Skill-project.org has a limit on children?
08:43:01 <mroman> how am I supposed to add thousands of programming languages then .
08:47:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Luser droog * New user account
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09:03:15 <shachaf> Bike: oh, now that dual space thing makes sense to me
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09:23:25 <J_Arcane> http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/11/12/wearable-power-assist-device-goes-on-sale-in-japan/
09:29:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Inca]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40917 * Luser droog * (+2104) apl-based ascii language
09:39:27 <Sgeo> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2007/1227.html
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10:11:18 <myname> is there anything i should read if i want to do lexing on languages with 2 (or more) dimensions?
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10:21:35 <mroman> myname: to create tokens?
10:22:10 <myname> well, i guess it have to be a graph, but basically yes
10:22:27 <mroman> but it depends if you can do arbitrary jumps to 2D locations or not
10:22:52 <mroman> if you can just branch upwards/downwards/left/right I use branches in graphs
10:24:20 <mroman> http://codepad.org/Um7WWfsN <- like that
10:24:34 <mroman> that way compilation is not that inconvenient
10:24:40 <mroman> if you have arbitrary jumps to locations
10:24:57 <mroman> compilation is very not so cenvenient anymore
10:30:42 <myname> i know, i already did that
10:31:17 <myname> the point is, i want to write about it and would like to read other stuff if available
10:34:54 <fizzie> "How do you organize a space party?" "You planet." Gah, these emails have oerjan-level puns.
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11:11:58 <J_Arcane> yaaaay for the endless recycling of the print keyword.
11:13:19 * J_Arcane is dealing with a name clash decision.
11:13:35 <J_Arcane> I have to decide which style of 'printing' Heresy's PRINT actually stands for.
11:14:00 <mroman> if it should produce foo or "foo"
11:14:28 <J_Arcane> BASIC just has PRINT, which roughly corresponds to how display works in Racket. But Racet also has print and write, both of which are pretty important.
11:14:46 <J_Arcane> mroman: Exactly. eg. file:///C:/Program%20Files/Racket/doc/guide/read-write.html?q=input
11:14:55 <J_Arcane> Whoops, forgot, local webdocs.
11:15:03 <mroman> just give me access to your computer please ;)
11:15:31 <mroman> http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/read-write.html
11:16:18 <b_jonas> actually, basic also has PRINT and WRITE
11:16:22 <b_jonas> at least some variants of basic
11:16:26 <b_jonas> and it also has PRINT USING
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11:16:45 <mroman> but WRITE is usally to file?
11:16:48 <J_Arcane> I forgot PRINT USING, though WRITE is a file I/O command usually isn't it?
11:16:57 <b_jonas> basic WRITE prints strings double-quoted so it's easier to read back,
11:17:04 <b_jonas> or was that a different command?
11:17:15 <b_jonas> there's _four_ write commands, three of which can work to both stdout adn file
11:17:19 <b_jonas> one is PRINT whcih prints normally,
11:17:30 <b_jonas> one prints strings double-quoted so its' easier to read back
11:17:44 <b_jonas> PRINT USING prints with formatting,
11:18:27 <b_jonas> and there's one that prints fixed fields which works a bit magically: it involves preparing a buffer with another command such that some strings point _into_ that field and you must not reallocate them but only assign their contents with LSET, and then the command just writes the buffer
11:18:50 <b_jonas> but I'm not sure whcih of these two other commands is WRITE and what's the other one called
11:19:43 <b_jonas> three of these can be used pritning to stdout, or to a filehandle like PRINT#3,FOO where #3 is the file descriptor number, or to the line printer like LPRINT
11:19:56 <b_jonas> and of course this all depends on the variant of basic
11:22:28 <J_Arcane> ECMA Standard BASIC has READ as well. XD
11:23:04 <fizzie> QBasic has PRINT, PRINT USING (to screen or file), LPRINT, LPRINT USING (to printer in LPT1), WRITE (to screen or file).
11:24:17 <fizzie> But that's only to file, I think.
11:25:15 <J_Arcane> Oh weird, PRINT USING in ECMA is basically PRINTF, instead of like defining an output port.
11:25:29 <fizzie> You can PUT any variable, not just the (LSET/RSET) random-access buffer.
11:25:58 <J_Arcane> And it's a two line statement ...
11:27:53 <fizzie> And confusingly enough, READ does not (arguably) do any I/O, since it only reads values specified by DATA statements.
11:28:09 <b_jonas> PRINT USING is always like printf, but with different directives
11:30:05 <J_Arcane> I don't recall ever learning that use case, and I don't think older MS BASICs had it.
11:30:36 <J_Arcane> In ECMA it's a two statement pair: PRINT USING values, then IMAGE string-templat.
11:34:21 <J_Arcane> That's the trouble with BASIC, there never really was a standard anyone actually followed. MS was almost more standard than ANSI or ECMA, it's what most followed.
11:39:33 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: I believe GWBASIC has PRINT USING too
11:43:58 <viznut_> i once read the basic standard and it was full of mind-boggling stuff i never saw implemented anywhere
11:45:44 <viznut_> "let" was mandatory but iirc there was also another alternative for "let" that could be used for defining vectors
11:48:58 <b_jonas> alternative for LET? like DIM or some other keyword for declaring variables, or SET for assigning object identify, or READ?
11:49:17 <b_jonas> mandatory LET is implemented in some basics of course
11:49:29 <J_Arcane> Yes. The standards define a MAT keyword that's used for defining all kinds of stuff to do with arrays.
11:49:38 <J_Arcane> There's even a MAT INPUT in ECMA.
11:49:51 <b_jonas> well, there's so many basics that it's hard to be sure about "not implemented anywhere"
11:50:13 <J_Arcane> Yeah. There are a few standards compliant implementations but they were never particularly popular I don't think.
11:51:00 <b_jonas> that could be because BASIC is or was popular not because it's a good language, but because it came with some personal computers, or bundled as a macro language into some programs (think of WordBasic, Visual Basic, and CorelScript)
11:51:32 <b_jonas> I mean, BASIC was a not too insane language back when it was created, because it was small enough and easy to learn
11:51:48 <viznut_> microcomputer implementations were dominated by microsoft that defined things in its own way
11:51:56 <J_Arcane> Yeah. IT was easy to write and implement for certain kinds of computers, and was relatively easy to 'get'; it's hyper imperative code at its core, which in a weird way makes it easy to follow until programs get large.
11:52:11 <viznut_> even if a microcomputer basic wasn't actually from microsoft it was usually modelled after ms-basic
11:53:39 <viznut_> and basic was popular in early microcomputers not only because of microsoft but also because the pioneers had often used a time-shared mainframe basic in university/college
11:54:11 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: Yeah; in its original form it was just for solving simple algebra problems, it was often the first language or only language new students were exposed to, because they'd use it for math classes and such.
12:06:18 <mroman> nowadays they use fortran .
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12:42:13 <J_Arcane> Part of me thinks I should just say fuck it and stick to a saner mapping direct to Lisp, PRINT = PRINT, INPUT = READ, though that does mean that Heresy would thus have an IEPD (input-eval-print-doloop)..
12:44:19 <fizzie> Improvised explosive printing device.
12:46:24 <J_Arcane> I actually haven't decided on the loop conventions yet either. It's a functional dialect, so a lot of them are worthless.
12:47:58 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: what are you making?
12:48:42 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: to practice macros and teach myself better FP/Lisp fundamentals, I'm implementing a LISP/BASIC hybrid lang called Heresy.
12:49:29 <J_Arcane> Mostly for the novelty, but it could be an interesting tool for getting BASIC programmers into trying Lisp.
12:51:56 <J_Arcane> Still on notes and tinkering stage now, but I think I'll have enough to write a draft definition of the core language soon.
12:52:35 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: um, how does that want to work? BASIC-like syntax with more functions, including statements turned to functions, or lisp-like syntax
12:53:12 <J_Arcane> It's mostly LISP syntax, with BASIC keywords and extra sugar.
12:55:43 <J_Arcane> I'm aiming to do this as a Racket #lang module, so a lot of stuff is 'for free'.
12:56:46 <mroman> I'm sure BASIC programmers will either say one of these two things
12:56:56 <mroman> a.) Too many parantheses.
12:57:15 <mroman> b.) Where's Console.Out.WriteLine
12:57:33 <mroman> hm. Console.WriteLine actually
12:57:46 <J_Arcane> Well, I'm shooting less for the VB crowd than the FreeBASIC heads; there's actually some Lisp curiosity in that crowd. :D
12:58:08 <mroman> It's been a long time since my VB.NET days
12:58:09 <J_Arcane> FB has TCO now, and a couple different Lisp implementations, one of them embeddable.
12:58:20 <J_Arcane> I stayed the hell away from VB. XD
12:58:39 <mroman> It's a beautiful language once you learn to hate and love it at the same time.
12:59:03 <mroman> fwiw it has all the features you need to program ;)
13:00:11 <b_jonas> mroman: such as the way to shell out to a real program?
13:01:18 <b_jonas> right. so you can just write your program in (your favourite language) and then run it
13:01:53 <mroman> But calling a VB.NET program inside a VB.NET program sounds pretty useless.
13:02:24 <fungot> mroman: fair enough. if she knew she'd just rest. :p
13:02:44 <elliott> J_Arcane: see, and here my associations are, like, QBASIC
13:02:57 <fungot> mroman: shall we proceed?
13:03:01 <elliott> VB and FreeBASIC and all that are so... depressingly capable
13:03:41 <J_Arcane> elliott: Yeah, I grew up on MS and QBASIC.
13:03:48 <mroman> Does VB allow to define casts?
13:04:16 <b_jonas> FORI=1TO16:FUNGOT(I)=0:NEXTI
13:04:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Container]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40918&oldid=40912 * 177.193.194.37 * (-45) /* Execution */
13:04:51 <mroman> but you have to use CType
13:05:38 <mroman> b_jonas: Public Shared Narrowing Operator CType(...)
13:05:51 <mroman> or Public Shared Widening Operator CType...
13:06:52 <b_jonas> mroman: I don't understand what that means
13:07:17 <mroman> or "Conversion Operator" if you're more familiar with that terminology
13:07:19 <J_Arcane> elliott: FreeBASIC is, strictly speaking, still a QB at heart, just one that was introduced to real programmers at some point who started wanting it to actually be useful agian. ;)
13:07:33 <J_Arcane> There's even recursive macros in FreeBASIC now apparently.
13:07:46 <elliott> J_Arcane: let me guess, it has ghastly OOP extensions :)
13:07:47 <mroman> i.e. if you create a data structure you can define a cast from string to your data structure
13:08:11 <J_Arcane> elliott: I'm not sure, but possibly, it does have partial C++ lib support.
13:08:23 <mroman> Brainfuckprogram prog = (Brainfuckprogram)"+++.";
13:08:41 <elliott> I think QBASIC has structs...
13:08:42 <mroman> VB has prog = CType("+++.", Brainfuckprogram)
13:09:16 <J_Arcane> I don't think MS got structs until VB
13:09:36 <elliott> ok, let me dig up fizzie's qbasic manual
13:10:03 <b_jonas> mroman: so can you also do like `dim prog as brainfuckprogram : prog = "+++."'
13:10:15 <mroman> you can define implicit casts
13:10:30 <elliott> J_Arcane: it does: http://gamma.zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDg3
13:10:37 <b_jonas> and does it let automatically cast as you pass an argument to a function that requires a particular type?
13:10:39 <elliott> J_Arcane: just nobody used them. or procedures, for that matter. :p
13:10:49 <J_Arcane> yeah, I never knew about them.
13:10:54 <mroman> b_jonas: it should with implicit casts yes
13:11:18 <mroman> think of all the great things you can do with this
13:11:21 <J_Arcane> Probably a 4.5 or 7 feature; most people only used the QB 1.1 that came with DOS
13:11:33 <mroman> (VB uses narrowing/widening as keywords, C# uses explicit/implicit as keywords)
13:11:39 <elliott> http://gamma.zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDIz you could even do things like this
13:11:57 <elliott> hmm, I thought fizzie's manual was some old version
13:12:14 <elliott> Fast program execution Use a Basic compiler (such as Microsoft
13:12:14 <elliott> Visual Basic for MS-DOS) to translate your
13:12:14 <elliott> Basic code into native machine code.
13:12:16 <elliott> visual basic for ms-dos...
13:12:43 <mroman> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/z5z9kes2.aspx)
13:12:57 <mroman> also VB uses Shared for "static"
13:13:06 <J_Arcane> elliott: Hmm, yeah, Guess it must be, because it lacks switches for command line compliation, and has /EDITOR.
13:13:36 <elliott> I think it was basically just that nobody knew or cared about the fancier stuff it has
13:13:40 <mroman> Does anyone plan on porting .NET to MS-DOS?
13:13:47 <elliott> so everyone remembers it as being goto global soup hell
13:14:12 <elliott> like, "Line numbers, a concept often associated with BASIC, are supported for compatibility, but are not considered good form, having been replaced by descriptive line labels.[1]" ha ha
13:14:21 <J_Arcane> elliott: Yeah, it was always a weird hybrid thing, and the typing system in particular could be pretty hairy if you engaged with it responsibly.
13:14:45 <J_Arcane> I didn't even use line labels after a very short time.
13:14:55 <J_Arcane> I was in looove with the IDE for subroutines.
13:15:06 <elliott> you filthy structured programmer.
13:16:21 <b_jonas> mroman: isn't "SHARED" for global variables and "STATIC" for static?
13:16:46 <J_Arcane> elliott: Honestly, if I refactored out some of my old code from the MS BASIC days it would look pretty similar. I tended to prefer GOSUB to GOTO.
13:18:44 <elliott> I don't even remember which BASICs I used as a kid. I definitely used QBASIC but I don't know if I actually got much programming done with it.
13:18:51 <elliott> it took until the ripe old age of 8 for me to start really programming
13:20:30 <elliott> I do remember writing out some long program that did pretty things on the screen from a book REALLY CAREFULLY. I forget which computer that was even for though. it wasn't an atari or a c64... *maybe* it was a bbc micro? but I don't think so... oh, possibly an Amstrad?
13:20:54 <J_Arcane> I was lucky, I started with the CoCo3. Tandy manuals in those days were *amazing* learning books. Huge, detailed, easy to read.
13:21:18 <elliott> (note: this would have been, like, 1998 or later. :p)
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13:21:45 <J_Arcane> But then later on high school finished, and I decided that I liked computers too much to do them for a living. I didn't want to not like them anymore.
13:22:01 <J_Arcane> In my mind, making them 'work' would suck out all the fun.
13:22:10 <elliott> I managed to not like them without work...
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13:23:10 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: did you revise that decision later and end up working with computers anyway?
13:23:28 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: That's kinda what I've been fumbling about attempting to do now.
13:23:45 <b_jonas> good, come join the dark side!
13:23:49 <J_Arcane> I actually wound up falling into cooking for about 10 years, then uni and tabletop RPG design.
13:27:12 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
13:27:19 <fungot> FireFly: not its offtopicness. that doesn't give you alt text. such is life
13:27:26 <J_Arcane> I am a hopelessly infatuated aspiring Scheme programmer with some entry-level Python skills as well.
13:28:23 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: yup. I cooked for a living for most of a decade.
13:29:12 <FireFly> So uh, obviously you'd be very proficient in the Chef language
13:29:32 <mroman> but no Job offers so far.
13:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Container]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40919&oldid=40918 * 177.193.194.37 * (+0) /* Execution */
13:30:22 <b_jonas> mroman: is that like that webpage we found last time that advertized befunge certifications?
13:31:54 <fizzie> You had to use the menus for defining procedures, or so I vaguely recall.
13:32:13 <elliott> fizzie: pretty sure typingw orked
13:32:14 <fizzie> (Is there big money in tabletop RPG design?)
13:32:19 <elliott> but then you got shoved into a mini-editor thing
13:32:21 <J_Arcane> Yeah, unfortunately I became a Lisp convert *after* I moved to a country with virtually zero Lisp programmers in it.
13:32:27 <elliott> it's, like, structural editing!
13:32:43 <b_jonas> fizzie: this is about what IDE or something?
13:32:46 <elliott> I guess fizzie's university did stop using SICP.
13:32:54 <fizzie> b_jonas: The QBasic one.
13:33:06 <fizzie> J_Arcane: F-Secure was famously looking for Scheme programmers in their job ads.
13:33:14 <fizzie> J_Arcane: Ten years ago, though.
13:33:15 <b_jonas> fizzie: actually, in qbasic, you can create a sub/function by just typing its head,
13:33:35 <b_jonas> but then either you have to switch between subs from the dialog box, or switch that option that makes the whole source code show up together
13:33:36 <J_Arcane> There are fuckall Lispers here seems like. One CL shop, a couple Clojure shops. A lot of Haskellers and Erlangers though.
13:33:52 <J_Arcane> FP is kinda popular here, just not in Lisp form necessarily.
13:33:55 <elliott> 3 lisp shops is pretty impressive :p
13:34:07 <elliott> I wonder hwo many there are in the UK.
13:34:31 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: doesn't matter. it's not just the languages that are important, but your theoretical understanding and competences. don't be affraid to get a non-scheme job.
13:35:02 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: I'm not afraid to, just not sure yet what I want to do, and kinda Java-phobic.
13:36:28 <b_jonas> yeah... that's understanible
13:36:55 <b_jonas> java is not a bad language (it's not a good one either), but java jobs want code monkeys
13:37:25 <J_Arcane> Java is everywhere here. In fact, if I don't want to go to uni after language school, my sole options from the trade school are either Java-EE or some buzzword nonsense about cloud architectures and so forth.
13:38:32 <b_jonas> and are you tied to your location by family or something?
13:39:17 <J_Arcane> I really like the city, and my wife is still in trade school for glasswork.
13:39:58 <mroman> buzzword nonsense is where them moneyz at.
13:40:34 <mroman> also as long as you just write code I don't really care in what language
13:40:36 <J_Arcane> mroman: True. And that one actually gives a CS qualification instead of just programming, IIUC.
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13:43:43 <fizzie> J_Arcane: Were you in Tampere, or do I remember wrong?
13:44:14 <fizzie> I was there yesterday.
13:44:30 -!- visy_ has changed nick to visy.
13:44:31 <J_Arcane> We moved here for the language course.
13:45:50 <b_jonas> hmm, so how many esolangers do you have in Finland? there aren't more than in the UK, are there?
13:46:21 <J_Arcane> I dunno to be honest. THere's always a few Finns around on IRC though. They invented the place.
13:46:32 <elliott> there are tons of esolangers in finland
13:47:12 <fizzie> I quickly counted 7 in the nick list, but I could well have missed some.
13:47:24 <fizzie> Or 8 if fungot counts.
13:47:24 <fungot> fizzie: sometimes but very rarely, i think it has something to do with energy.
13:47:27 <elliott> at least 7 in here right now
13:48:04 <elliott> this channel started with finns I think
13:48:09 <elliott> well I guess lament isn't finnish
13:48:27 <elliott> I think it is because of the whole demoscene culture and everything.
13:48:39 <elliott> well, plus just finns being IRC addicts
13:48:52 <fizzie> I prefer the word "enthusiasts", thank you very much.
13:49:38 <J_Arcane> Yeah, still pretty active demoscene here.
13:51:26 <fizzie> My early logs show navigator with a .gr hostname, and lament, calamari and dbc from US-looking ISPs.
13:51:53 <fizzie> (And me and mooz from .fi.)
13:53:38 <fizzie> Saippuakivikauppias, you mean.
13:53:54 <fizzie> (Also: "menen kauppaan".)
13:54:02 <fizzie> (But: "tulen kaupasta".)
13:54:23 <fizzie> I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for one to be pp and the other just p.
13:54:41 <elliott> fizzie: that's practically all finns.
13:55:21 <fizzie> "Sappikivi kippas" == "the gallstone tipped over".
13:56:52 <oerjan> fizzie: isn't that just that consonant gradation
13:57:44 <oerjan> perfectly regular, except i've learned recently that it's not always that
13:58:34 <oerjan> like, some centuries ago, it probably was perfectly regular, but then _more_ sound changes kept getting heaped on.
13:58:43 <fizzie> It might be regular, but the regulations aren't something one really thinks of.
13:59:25 <fizzie> "This sometimes creates difficulties in identifying the root (if the word is derived), because often seemingly basic words turn out to be derived, applying gradation in the process. For example, hake 'wood chippings gradates to hakkee-, not to *hae-, because it is already a gradated form (former *hak̆keh), derived from hakkaa- < 'hack' (whose infinitive is the weak grade haka|ta). However, ...
13:59:31 <fizzie> ... hake|a 'to get, to search' does gradate to hae-, as hake- is the original form."
14:00:08 <oerjan> and if what i vaguely hear about colloquial finnish is right, you'll soon be as complicated as estonian
14:03:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Container]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40920&oldid=40919 * 177.193.194.37 * (+104) /* Execution */
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14:12:47 <oerjan> what, tatham's loopy puzzle can actually be zoomed by resizing?
14:12:53 <oerjan> this may change EVERYTHING
14:13:35 <oerjan> wtf is that humming noise
14:16:23 <oerjan> ok not everything. it is _still_ annoying to aim properly with my touchpad.
14:21:12 <oerjan> aka it's not precise, _and_ the buttons are not properly separated from the pointing area.
14:23:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Container]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40921&oldid=40920 * 177.193.194.37 * (+48)
14:24:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dimensions]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40922&oldid=40903 * Oerjan * (+1) /* See also */ bullets
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14:25:10 <elliott> oerjan: I've offered to buy you a mouse before, right?
14:28:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:TomPN]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40923&oldid=40863 * Oerjan * (+92) unsigned
14:28:51 <oerjan> but i cannot usefully use a mouse on my lap.
14:29:08 <oerjan> (also i have a mouse, i've just never used it.)
14:29:40 <oerjan> WTF IS THAT HUMMING SOUND
14:32:28 <oerjan> i suspect the neighbor's fridge.
14:33:13 <oerjan> the constructor workers have stopped, which only makes me go crazy at smaller noises instead.
14:35:19 <mroman> b_jonas: Philae actually bounced off the comet ;)
14:35:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Musical notes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40924&oldid=40861 * Oerjan * (+1) /* See also */ bullets
14:37:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40925&oldid=40910 * Thatguy25252525 * (-181) /* Documentation */
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14:38:49 <myname> int-e, oerjan: you are the ones that know everything, aren't you? do you know any kind of paper/article about lexing of 2d languages?
14:40:14 <mroman> Oerjan is known to do homework for people in here. So he *must* know a lot.
14:41:28 <oerjan> no, but i recall fizzie's jit thing compiled all four directions or something.
14:41:42 <oerjan> vanila: like befunge. see:
14:41:44 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
14:42:48 <mroman> myname: you can compile all columns and rows as well
14:43:15 <mroman> this will also allow you to do handle jumps to arbitrary locations without dynamic recompilation
14:43:26 <b_jonas> mroman: sure, but befunge is also self-modifying
14:43:43 <mroman> (if the language isn't self-modifying)
14:44:48 <mroman> although some forms of self-modification can be implemented by using fixed blocks of code for each instruction
14:44:53 <mroman> and then replace the blocks at runtime
14:45:11 <mroman> (which isn't really recompilation)
14:46:54 <mroman> (due to fixed size blocks there will be nops in the generated code though)
14:49:18 <mroman> either that or you can link blocks together with jumps
14:49:26 <mroman> and then just keep a jump table around
14:49:51 <mroman> I should test some day what is more efficient
14:58:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40926&oldid=40905 * Oerjan * (+1) /* See also */ bullets
15:04:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40927&oldid=40893 * Oerjan * (-577) /* ATZ */ See the first paragraph of this talk page; also, information already at [[ATZ]].
15:05:03 <oerjan> ion: hey _my_ name isn't a common suffix.
15:05:34 <oerjan> (kudos to anyone who can find a pre-existing language where it is.)
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15:24:07 <mroman> @tell mroman applyRegexMatch
15:24:16 <mroman> I was trying to, you moron!
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15:29:51 <mroman> @tell blsqbot applyRegexMatch
15:32:44 <mroman> @tel qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq hi
15:33:08 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
15:33:16 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
15:33:21 <S1> why did tel work?
15:33:30 <mroman> lambdabot has auto-correction
15:33:32 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
15:34:15 <mroman> It's you know... so that people can feel funny asking lambdabot for massages
15:35:09 <mroman> fungot doesn't respond well to massage requestts
15:35:09 <fungot> mroman: http://video.google.com/ fnord
15:35:27 <mroman> It just tells you to go watch a video of massage on google
15:35:32 <FireFly> fungot: uh I think Google Videos is deprecated in favour of Youtube
15:35:34 <fungot> FireFly: shame there's no 68k emulator that does the same thing ( modulo the spaces))
15:36:08 <FireFly> 68k emulators ought to include google video playback in their feature set
15:39:48 <int-e> I should really implement channel-specific defaults JUST TO DISABLE THAT AUTOCORRECTION ON #esoteric...
15:40:40 <b_jonas> the jevalbot has one bit of per-channel setting, for enabling or disabling shortcut invocation
15:40:57 <int-e> But it's really nice for correcting some honest spelling mistakes.
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15:46:01 <elliott> int-e: just add a @massages-lewd command
15:46:05 <elliott> then all the corrections will be ambiguous
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16:10:40 <J_Arcane> Oh. So that's what call/cc does.
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16:18:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BitZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40928&oldid=25395 * 116.58.254.129 * (+17) /* I quoted the code, so the page looks better and is easier to navigate */
16:22:36 <elliott> J_Arcane: if you're saying that there's like a 60% chance you're not entirely certain of call/cc's semantics yet :p
16:22:53 <J_Arcane> elliott: Yes. That was too confident a statement.
16:23:13 <Bike> ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))
16:23:27 <J_Arcane> I only understand a fraction of some things that it can do, but they are specifically things that are useful with current internal questions about Heresy implementation.
16:23:35 <elliott> J_Arcane: If you would like some fun try and understand the interactions between call/cc and dynamic-wind
16:24:34 <elliott> or maybe it wasn't dynamic-wind.
16:24:39 <elliott> there was some complex interaction, anyway
16:25:11 <J_Arcane> Like, how you implement DO...LOOP and still be able to get out of it without mutatinng a variable.
16:25:39 <J_Arcane> It also makes the Racket web server library make a slight bit more sense now.
16:25:45 <elliott> J_Arcane: fully-fledged undelimited continuations are probably a bad choice for that if you have alternatives
16:25:51 <elliott> (inefficient, complex, dangerous)
16:26:12 <elliott> I'm pretty sure racket has delimited continuations, at least, though really breaking out of a loop is just exception semantics which are a really tiny subset of call/cc
16:26:15 <vanila> I don't even understand call/cc
16:26:21 <vanila> and ive been trying to for years
16:26:24 <J_Arcane> elliott: Yes, that is also a problem.
16:26:35 <J_Arcane> I'll have to look into some of the 'safer' options in Racket.
16:27:04 <elliott> http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/against-callcc.html is a nice collection of polemic
16:27:07 <vanila> delimited continuations are much more conceptually simple and clear than calcc
16:28:02 <elliott> vanila: yeah but they're so much easier to understand, it's boring :p
16:29:43 <J_Arcane> elliott: *glances at dynamic-wind* aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
16:30:18 <elliott> dynamic-wind is like... "here's all the details of call/cc's havoc exposed to your program, good luck"
16:30:29 <elliott> it's like... try...finally : exceptions :: dynamic-wind : continuations
16:30:58 <Bike> kernel's dynamic wind equivalent is still nuts.
16:31:46 <Bike> what if you had dynamic wind and also included a tree of continuations
16:33:10 <Bike> there's this whole thing about continuations having parents and children
16:33:20 <Bike> i don't... really remember how it works, because what the fuck
16:34:07 <Bike> so the dynamic wind equivalent works by installing a handler for particular continuations, and then if that continuation or a child of it enters or exits (depending) the handler happens
16:34:47 <Bike> i think the best part was that one part of it was included and the explanation is like "well nothing else has this and i can't think of a use but it's symmetric and therefore beautiful"
16:36:55 <elliott> that's like me designing languages...
16:37:05 <Bike> it's like this entire channel! burn
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17:05:34 <J_Arcane> Bike: Such is the way of Scheme sometimes. ;)
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17:24:00 <HackEgo> elliot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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17:39:32 <fizzie> J_Arcane: Actually, now that I think of it, I think those Scheme jobs were at SSH Communications instead.
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17:45:47 <mroman> what was that <<loop>> thing again?
17:51:17 <elliott> trivial stuff like fix id or let x = x in x will produce it
17:52:10 <int-e> "Hi, we've noticed all those threads waitinf for each other to finish a calculation. We've decided to put them out of their misery by delivering a Nontermination exception to each of them. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day."
17:52:13 <elliott> it's my face, with a tongue sticking out of it
17:52:23 <elliott> int-e: doesn't that have a different message?
17:53:17 <int-e> showsPrec _ NonTermination = showString "<<loop>>"
17:53:54 <mroman> Can ghci tell me where it loops?
17:54:32 <mroman> fucking useless ghci then
17:55:22 <J_Arcane> i'm still not sure what to do with them in Heresy.
17:56:10 <mroman> http://codepad.org/EqO83Zwt
17:57:42 <mroman> (I see the recursion of course)
17:57:49 <mroman> but it's a finite recursion on finite input
17:57:59 <mroman> I don't see a reason why this code won't terminate
17:58:52 <coppro> mroman: if you get an empty match
18:07:45 <elliott> I think you can get a backtrace
18:08:01 <elliott> you have to like compile your program with profiling and rtsopts then pass +RTS -xc
18:08:04 <elliott> and you get a really ugly backtrace
18:09:54 <int-e> henkma outdid him again
18:12:00 <S1> !help languages
18:12:01 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
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18:31:00 <nyuszika7h> since when are Haskell and Perl esoteric?
18:32:25 <Taneb> nyuszika7h, have you seen the average Haskell progam?
18:32:59 -!- LauraFinder has joined.
18:33:05 <S1> "intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest, or an enlightened inner circle." - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/esoteric
18:34:06 <tromp> that would seem to apply to fortran and cobol as well:)
18:34:16 <nyuszika7h> using that logic you could call Scheme esoteric too
18:34:21 <S1> k, rather "Having to do with concepts that are highly theoretical and without obvious practical application"
18:35:01 <fizzie> "13. Provide the applied-for gTLD string. If an IDN, provide the U-label." "ooo" "We conducted extensive research on specialized websites and on generic search tools first. Our experts (computer engineers) have evaluated the string to conclude that there was no operational or rendering problem. We contacted outside experts who reached the same conclusion. Hence there are no known operational ...
18:35:08 <fizzie> ... or rendering problems concerning the applied-for gTLD string."
18:37:41 <fizzie> Apparently it's a TLD for e-commerce.
18:38:05 <fizzie> Since "ooo" is so evocative of trust and other such emotions.
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18:41:46 <Gregor> I like that they launched .education as the legitimacy-free alternative to .edu.
18:41:50 <Gregor> I bought a .institute for myself.
18:41:54 <Gregor> Because I am the Gregor Institute.
18:42:10 <fizzie> As far as I can tell from the application, you can only use their e-commerce-site-builder to build .ooo sites.
18:42:24 <MDude> Pale Moon can't find the server at www.spooky.ooo.
18:42:44 <fizzie> Or maybe they just have a list of requirements, now that I look closer.
18:42:47 <MDude> Oh, I didn'y read what that was in reponse to.
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18:43:22 <fizzie> You can make a spooky.ooo as long as you have "a physical address, a brand⁄store name, and a phone number" publicly displayed on the front page.
18:43:24 <MDude> Object Oriented Operations
18:44:11 <mroman> coppro: but that shouldn't happen @empty match
18:44:41 <fizzie> Melvar: They use the FRACTION SLASH as a slash throughout the thing.
18:45:04 <fizzie> It renders real badly in the browser with this particular monospace font.
18:45:14 <Melvar> I wonder how they came to misuse it that way.
18:45:22 <mroman> it loops forever with allMatches'' f regex "" ng nv as well
18:45:26 <fizzie> (Overlaps with the neighboring characters, and messes up the monospacing.)
18:45:51 <MDude> Can the physical address be an empty lot, and the phone number something that just connects you to something like delayed feedback or a numbers station?
18:46:01 <fizzie> mroman: Well, what's the regex? I mean, if it's capable of empty match, you can find the empty match in "".
18:46:30 <mroman> I'm catching Just(_, "", _, _) -> error "nope" now
18:46:34 <mroman> and it doesn't throw an error nope
18:46:40 <mroman> the match is not empty
18:47:49 <fizzie> MDude: There is an "eligibility test".
18:47:55 <mroman> http://codepad.org/7LcMg07u
18:48:04 <mroman> fizzie: MatchesAll runs through
18:48:08 <mroman> ApplyRegex runs forever
18:48:13 <mroman> same regex, same input string
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19:22:34 <J_Arcane> Unintended but quite idiomatic result in Heresy: Because most Heresy forms are just macros for Racket, and I've yet to implement any more specific error handling for said macros, it means the default error for most Heresy functions is just a 'bad syntax' error.
19:31:32 <J_Arcane> http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/050/4/5/syntax_error_by_gmphoenix-d39syyv.png
19:53:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mneme]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40929&oldid=8577 * BCompton * (+12) Dead link
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19:59:22 <fizzie> From elsewhere in the ircwebs, possibly not news: https://developer.android.com/reference/android/os/UserManager.html#isUserAGoat%28%29
20:00:30 <FireFly> "Return whether the given user is actively running." I didn't know they had APIs for that
20:01:03 <fizzie> I didn't know they had APIs for goat stuff at all, nor that being a goat is somehow related to teleportation.
20:01:31 <FireFly> I think the teleportation thing is a reference to mountain goats
20:02:33 <S1> "advanced goat recognition technology"
20:02:42 <FireFly> the 'Return whether the given user is actively running' is from a serious method, by the way
20:03:04 <fizzie> Apparently goat teleportation is also a joke in Chrome.
20:03:47 <FireFly> There's also a method that 'will also return true if the user had been running but is in the process of being stopped (but is not yet fully stopped)', I wonder if that triggers if the user is being chased by the police
20:03:55 <FireFly> Or perhaps if the user is about to hit a wall
20:05:04 <fizzie> Apparently isUserAGoat it used to return false always, but now returns true if isPackageAvailable("com.coffeestainstudios.goatsimulator").
20:05:22 <fizzie> And that's what the "advanced goat recognition technology" is referring to.
20:05:36 <fizzie> (I guess that's the goat simulator game.)
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20:17:33 <elliott> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=31482
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21:03:09 <mroman> this <<loop>> is really annoying.
21:05:18 <mroman> allMatches seems to terminate
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21:05:39 <mroman> although that might be lazyness stuff
21:10:58 <mroman> blsq ) "[0-9]+"{<-}"abc127def789bum"~a
21:11:35 <mroman> let (_, g', v', str) = (allMatches'' f regex str g v)
21:11:40 <mroman> that seems to be the problem
21:12:23 <Taneb> Bah, my number theory lecturer doesn't quite get the notion of a relation
21:12:24 <mroman> let (_, g', v', str) = (allMatches'' f regex str g v)
21:12:28 <mroman> blsq ) "[0-9]+"{ri?iSh}"abc127def789bum"~a
21:12:47 <Taneb> Apparently ~ : ZxZ -> Z is a relation
21:12:51 <mroman> it allows you to apply a function on what a regex matches
21:12:53 <Taneb> An equivalence relation, no less
21:13:23 <int-e> Taneb: that's ... interesting.
21:13:59 <Taneb> I pointed this out to him in the lecture, and he sort of handwaved it in a not very satisfying manner
21:14:17 <Taneb> (his definition of ~, other than its type, is an equivalence relation)
21:14:32 <int-e> so, a set of pairs?
21:15:05 <Taneb> He just says z1 ~ z2 <=> z1 = z2 (mod m)
21:15:50 <Taneb> btw what's the mathsy word of type signature?
21:15:51 <int-e> maybe he thinks of relations in terms of indicator functions? But even then the codomain would be nicer if written as {0,1}.
21:16:36 <int-e> type. carrier set. domain (of a variable)... I don't know.
21:17:13 <vanila> Taneb, He may be alluding to the fact that a function like that induces an equivalence relation
21:17:31 <Taneb> vanila, I don't think that's the case
21:17:44 <int-e> vanila: but that would be an equivalence relation on pairs of numbers.
21:18:44 <int-e> (or it needs further explanation, like that there is a congruence relation for that function...)
21:19:32 <int-e> (x~x', y~y' imply f(x,y)~f(x',y'))
21:20:57 <int-e> For relations I'd usually just write ~ \subseteq ZxZ rather than deciding on a notation for the power set.
21:21:33 <int-e> maybe the ZxZ -> Z started out as ZxZ -> 2
21:22:32 <Taneb> This is typed notes
21:22:33 <vanila> oh, the 2 is just backwards!
21:22:54 <Taneb> The Zs all have sharp angles and doubly lines
21:23:19 <int-e> Taneb: it's still a possibility
21:23:28 <int-e> those typed notes were not created in a vacuum.
21:24:34 <Taneb> Also that was what he wrote on the blackboard in the lecture, and I did press him about it
21:24:38 <Taneb> And he stuck with Z
21:25:01 <int-e> tell him that the internet agrees with you that he's wrong
21:25:15 <int-e> elliott: it's not.
21:25:31 <elliott> int-e: it is. you clearly never met george zbool
21:25:35 <int-e> You could argue for W = Wahrheitswert.
21:25:37 <Taneb> (this is the same guy I got the 0 \elem N shirt for)
21:26:28 <int-e> elliott: I have not, that is true. I have not met George Boole either, but at least there's a historical record of him.
21:26:54 <elliott> int-e: okay, I admit, it's actually french
21:27:12 <int-e> I rather doubt it.
21:27:33 <int-e> Especially given your recent track record for sticking to the Truth and making things up.
21:27:50 <elliott> you're ruining my reputation :(
21:27:59 <Taneb> Famous italian mathematician
21:28:05 <int-e> elliott: I don't have to, you're doing an excellent job all by yourself.
21:28:19 <elliott> where did we go wrong, int-e
21:28:25 <elliott> things used to be so much better than this
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21:30:32 <int-e> I think it went wrong when you tried saving a joke that wasn't funny the first time.
21:31:29 <int-e> Now if you stop asking rhetorical questions I can stop answering them ;-)
21:32:43 <elliott> well, it was so bad it couldn't get less funny by extending it.
21:34:21 <Taneb> (I found it funny)
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21:44:36 <Primal> My fingers are cold so i cant do much
21:44:51 <int-e> go catch some fresh air
21:45:32 <Primal> Nah im outside its just i've been typing fast for like an hour and im pretty sure typing fast isnt good when im coding a library
21:45:41 <olsner> fungot: how cold are your fingers?
21:45:43 <fungot> olsner: apparently there were pre-cl lisps which had more than lament is refusing to fork after about 130 processes. ( i'm fnord the new ubuntu release, no?
21:46:14 <olsner> if you were typing fast, shouldn't that have heated up your fingers?
21:46:21 <int-e> does fungot actually take the context into account when replying, or is it just scanning for its nickname?
21:46:21 <fungot> int-e: so how does that affect boxing? like using cells? sounds a bit cliché......
21:46:30 <Primal> Not if you are in 29 degree weather
21:46:31 <olsner> int-e: nah, it just scans for the nickname
21:46:35 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:47:14 <fungot> FireFly: i found at http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/gambit/ doc/ 360/ fnord/ ffi
21:47:30 <Primal> I dislike ubuntu for many reason's >_>
21:47:39 <olsner> it would be cool if it did somehow base on what you wrote on the trigger line, but I think that might be an unreasonable expectation on fizzie to do that
21:47:40 <int-e> I wonder what an uppercut would look like.)
21:48:37 <fizzie> int-e: The Perl prototype can continue from a predefined starting context, but fungot itself doesn't even have the mapping from strings to token indices.
21:48:37 <fungot> fizzie: and dotted pair with car and cdr locations. 2.
21:49:08 <Primal> What were you guys talking about before i got in?
21:49:23 <int-e> Primal: we have logs, see the topic
21:49:36 <Primal> Sorry i just got to the logs
21:50:54 <FireFly> fungot: you want to be re-implemented in lisp?
21:50:54 <fungot> FireFly: you're going to get that particular bot going. good night. fnord,
21:51:06 <FireFly> I think that might be a yes
21:51:33 <FireFly> (and apparently I'm supposed to be responsible for it?)
21:51:35 <fizzie> Another reasonable thing is to interpolate the language model between the original and a one built from the input, but usually the inputs are pretty short.
21:52:27 <Primal> Do i have to ask a mod? to join a bot here or something
21:53:40 <Primal> Nope im working on it atm for some pay, The patron did a bad job at making it but they are my friend so im helping i just need to test it
21:54:02 <Primal> Ill do that later when ever i get the library sorted
22:01:14 <Primal> Sorch are you in here?
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22:12:42 <int-e> . o O ( what Rosetta didn't find: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/rosetta.png )
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22:58:09 <Taneb> I... am using ssh and X forwarding to get MATLAB
22:58:33 <Taneb> So I can procrastinate better
22:58:41 <Taneb> By having MATLAB open and not looking at it
23:00:44 <int-e> have a good internet connection, do you?
23:01:28 <Taneb> (if I wanted to do this properly, I would walk a mile to the uni CS lab where MATLAB is installed)
23:01:29 <int-e> (I've stopped using X forwarding; running things in Xvnc + vncviewer -via is much more bandwidth efficient)
23:02:12 <int-e> (or so I've found, personally)
23:08:15 <Taneb> That looks pretty cool
23:08:37 <elliott> it's a lot better than X forwarding.
23:08:58 <int-e> thanks, though I probably won't (usually I'm happy with local X and ssh, and I have a script for making the vnc thing easy already)
23:09:15 <elliott> well, xpra lets you use your local WM :)
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23:42:45 <zzo38> Another way to implement action symbols in a shift-reduce parser: The result type is the same as the type of action symbols, and this type forms a monoid. Each production has exactly one action symbol (which may be the identity symbol). The lexer also produces action symbols; whenever it is called to get a new token, the action symbol of the previous token is applied.
23:47:09 <zzo38> And then apply this to a "passive skip-reduce parser". The above ensures that the grammar is "passive". And then each nondefault action can be a shift or a skip (which is like a shift, except it pushes nothing to the stack but still go to another state which won't be on the stack and will therefore be forgotten); each default action can be a reduce, an accept, or an error.
23:48:46 <zzo38> Which grammars can be reduced to such a form? If you make a CFSM and then there is a reduce-reduce conflict, how can you attempt to unify the conflicting productions?
23:56:57 <int-e> Fascinating, how did I arrive at 1 alphanum less than henkma, but the same length... (Leapfrogging)
23:57:01 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:57:19 <int-e> ah oerjan will know ;-)
23:58:01 <int-e> nothing, I just caught up on Leapfroggin.
23:59:38 <oerjan> i did have a feeling those last two i did weren't optimal, although 19 bytes shorter is a bit more than i expected
23:59:39 <int-e> and the statistics are a bit odd.