00:00:00 <Sgeo> I'm assuming something's becoming unplugged
00:00:18 <Sgeo> So going to open up computer
00:01:12 <adu> Sgeo: how are you talking then?
00:01:40 <Sgeo> Becoming. Not completely. And screen isn't always that bad depending on how it's tilted
00:01:49 <Sgeo> Although it's been getting worse
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01:46:58 <oren> are base64 literals a good idea?
02:01:18 <oren> base64 literal integers
02:02:11 <oren> hmm i'm gonna put them in anyway
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02:33:45 <oren> base62 does have advantage of not requiring 2 extra characters
02:35:22 <oren> but with the version of base64 i'm using, 63 is =_=
02:36:12 <CrazyM4n> Why not be original? Why not base 79?
02:36:20 <oren> not a power of 2
02:36:34 <CrazyM4n> You're going to let society tell you that you shouldn't use base 79?
02:36:38 <oren> i will support also base 60
02:36:58 <CrazyM4n> Society doesn't know what they are talking about. Spit in the face of society and use base 79
02:36:59 <oren> in form :12:30:
02:37:37 <oren> bases for integers: 10, 16, 60, 64, 256
02:38:18 <CrazyM4n> That's what they try to tell you
02:39:12 <oren> hmm... actually maybe i should just do BNN,NNNNNN
02:39:21 <oren> where the first NN is the base
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03:37:36 <oren> they said dlls were hell. whoever they were, they never had to deal with these stupid .mex files.
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03:48:12 <zzo38> What are these stupid .mex files?
03:54:22 <oren> .mex files are executables written in c++ that hook into matlab
03:54:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[K-on Fuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41339 * 50.53.30.212 * (+470) Created page with "K-on Fuck (けいおんfuck) is an esoteric programming language believed to be created by Yuichi Nishiwaki. It is a programming language where all input is done via the japa..."
03:55:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[K-on Fuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41340&oldid=41339 * 50.53.30.212 * (+4)
03:55:56 <oren> i like that show
03:56:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41341&oldid=41287 * 50.53.30.212 * (+16)
03:57:34 <oren> and someone from oregon added it to the wiki
03:59:17 <oren> the name of that esolang is extremely ungooglable
04:00:36 <elliott> looks like we have our new featured language
04:01:44 <CrazyM4n> Gotta rename it to K-On! Fuck!
04:02:49 <oren> the problem is there are many things on the internet with that name, most of which are illegal in my country
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04:13:23 <oren> japanese people all know what the word 'fuck' means... this guy is definitely trolling everyone.
04:14:43 <CrazyM4n> Japan is a country composed of trolls and Samsung
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04:17:55 <elliott> you realise brainfuck also means, like, fucking brains, right
04:19:04 <pikhq> CrazyM4n: Somehow I don't think Japan has anyone from Samsung.
04:19:08 <oren> Samsung is Korea, dude.
04:19:21 <oren> like 20% of korea's economy anyway
04:19:45 <pikhq> And yes, pretty much anyone from Japan and in particular anyone in Japan who watches anime would know what "fuck" means.
04:19:50 <elliott> the samsung playstation 4 is made in taiwan
04:20:30 <pikhq> If nothing else they know it from South Park.
04:22:58 <pikhq> (for god knows what reason, South Park is moderately successful in Japan)
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04:25:52 <CakeMeat> Were you talking about how weird English is
04:26:19 <oren> nah we were talking about how japan is full of toolls
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04:26:54 <oren> and in particular one troll wrote an esolang called 'K-on fuck'
04:27:04 <oren> which is of course ungooglable
04:27:36 <oren> well if you google it you get lots of japanese child porn
04:28:07 <oren> because K-on is the name of a manga featuing little girls
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04:28:26 <CakeMeat> Marketable assasination league
04:28:29 <oren> that will make the problem worse undoubtably
04:28:33 <elliott> I think we're changing the topic now
04:29:03 <oren> buttbuttination
04:29:15 <CakeMeat> Thats not what i was refering to
04:29:33 <CakeMeat> I was refering to i can hire assasins
04:29:53 <CrazyM4n> Just search it on paheal or something
04:29:59 <oren> assassin comes from the same root as hashish
04:30:02 <CrazyM4n> That should get you the esoteric language
04:30:46 <oren> despite knowing japanese and having been to japan i have a low tolerance for their shit
04:31:09 <CrazyM4n> "Japan, I've had enough. This is too far. I've had too much of this shit."
04:31:39 <CakeMeat> Japan pumps out alot of scandolous manga
04:31:41 <pikhq> It is fair. Some aspects of their society are pretty fucked up.
04:31:53 <pikhq> CakeMeat: Well no shit, Japan has a lot of manga of every sort.
04:32:00 <elliott> it's okay I'm blaming everyone else too
04:32:45 <CrazyM4n> On an unrelated note, I'm in like 5 channels and only one of them has had nobody talking in it.
04:33:02 <oren> ok. new topic: why does matlab use such screwed up keyborad shortcuts?
04:33:07 <CrazyM4n> The only thing there is: http://i.imgur.com/tzZep0I.png
04:33:20 <oren> i am not clicking on that
04:33:43 <CrazyM4n> It's a screenshot of the only activity in #perl over the course of about 6 hours
04:34:18 <CakeMeat> Because oren they are just saying Fuck you silently
04:34:46 <oren> fine i wgot it and it is safe
04:35:33 <oren> wget is a germanic strong verb wget, wgot, wgotten
04:36:20 <CakeMeat> Anyways¿ why are there so many alters of bf
04:36:23 <oren> perl has latin. does any language use ablaut?
04:36:39 <CrazyM4n> How do you accidentally hit that key
04:36:52 <CrazyM4n> Did you put that key on your keyboard layout for the sole purpose of accidentally hitting it
04:37:10 <oren> I think his keyborad is spanish
04:37:25 <CakeMeat> Re assigning keyboards to show alt symbols along the num pad
04:38:00 <CrazyM4n> TBH I don't even know how to get to ¿
04:38:42 <CrazyM4n> If only alt codes worked in ubuntu
04:39:02 <oren> I have RFC1345 on my layout
04:40:21 <CrazyM4n> I got haskell, python, ruby, simplefunge, and league of legends,
04:41:26 <CrazyM4n> Where I want to make the code look good
04:41:48 <CakeMeat> So a code to make your slop look spiffy
04:42:22 <CrazyM4n> https://gist.github.com/CrazyM4n All of my actually ok code is here
04:42:34 <oren> ruby is annoying... we did not need a python with {}
04:42:54 <CrazyM4n> Maybe we just didn't need ruby with " "
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04:43:16 <CakeMeat> Haskell, Python , javascript++ , C , Simplefunge. Are all i need
04:43:44 <elliott> also it predates Python, IIRC
04:44:06 <CrazyM4n> CakeMeat: Are you being seirous about Simplefunge because if it's caught on in the time that I've been away from esoteric languages
04:44:14 <elliott> okay, no, Python is older. but still
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04:45:38 <elliott> also Ruby was popular in Japan way before it caught on elsewhere, IIRC
04:46:13 <CakeMeat> Also no ones made a ruby alter called emerald yet and im sad
04:46:27 <oren> maybe Ishould make sapphire
04:47:08 <oren> it would be different from ruby in only 4 ways
04:47:37 <oren> but enough to make almost all programs in either one incompatible
04:48:20 <CakeMeat> Makes most useful program.. Its incompatible with everything
04:48:27 <oren> actually that is an interesting category: a language minimally different from a mainstream one, but enough to make porting a huge hardship
04:50:10 <HackEgo> [U+00BF INVERTED QUESTION MARK] [U+0020 SPACE]
04:50:54 <J_Arcane> Man, the Python community was so much more fun when I was younger. XD
04:50:58 <oren> is it my fault? my conn is also running matlab through ssh -X
04:50:59 <CakeMeat> Python 2 will be in my heard forever
04:51:45 <oren> I love python and hate the developers
04:52:04 <J_Arcane> Python was my escape from BASIC. In the end though, it just wound up being my gateway drug to Lisp.
04:52:16 <CrazyM4n> The only thing I don't like about python is everything
04:52:40 <oren> also whytf did they make perl 6?
04:53:21 <oren> whereas perl 5 is still huge
04:53:22 <CrazyM4n> They didn't realize ruby replaced it
04:53:39 <oren> no it didn't, PHP replaced it
04:54:08 <oren> CGI sh -> perl -> PHP -> ???
04:54:55 <CrazyM4n> Ruby was meant as perl's successor of sorts
04:55:17 <CakeMeat> Node.js is popular with chat bots that arent on irc
04:55:22 <oren> but perl had to be replaced with somthing just as fucked up and inconsistent
04:55:35 <oren> not something clean
04:56:10 <CrazyM4n> I give it crap because I love it
04:56:26 <oren> I think ruby is much cleaner than PHP
04:56:44 <CrazyM4n> But perl and PHP weren't really meant for the same thing
04:57:09 <J_Arcane> Never learned Ruby. If I was still considering an RPG Maker project I'd consider it, but Lua is more widely used for game scripting.
04:58:06 <CakeMeat> Lua is good for powder particle based games
04:58:07 <CrazyM4n> Oh the days of being 12 and playing Roblox every day
04:58:31 <J_Arcane> I like the looks of Lua; it's like 90% just another Python but with a hint more Lisp.
04:58:52 <CrazyM4n> I tried making things in a certain powdery simulation with it
04:59:23 <CakeMeat> Also java is more game maker material
04:59:43 <elliott> J_Arcane: and one-based indexing @_@
04:59:45 <oren> bah... for real games just use BASIC
04:59:46 <CrazyM4n> That was what you were referring to also?
04:59:48 <J_Arcane> Really though, I just didn't see the point learning another slowass scripting language when even the slowest Lisp was faster.
05:00:29 <J_Arcane> (of course, Lisp skills also won't get me a job ...)
05:00:55 <oren> bah... i got a job by promising to read up on PHP
05:01:43 <J_Arcane> oren: Yeah. I am not surprised.
05:02:04 <oren> the job market for programmers is still obscene
05:02:27 <oren> (at least by other professions' standards)
05:02:33 <CakeMeat> Governments love programmers though
05:02:50 <oren> in my time zon
05:02:51 <J_Arcane> Part of me gets super psyched out of actually applying for programming work because I feel like I don't have much skills yet, but then people tell me stories about whole workplaces that have to be reminded to only push executables that actually, like, execute, and I don't feel as self-concious.
05:03:14 <J_Arcane> Then I go read about continuations or something and start considering a CS degree again ...
05:04:00 <J_Arcane> school's free here in Finland, but the student benefit is crap, and I have a wife.
05:04:11 <oren> I am at the final stretch of my CS degree... I have learned a lot, but there is still lots that I need to learn
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05:05:34 <oren> really the more i know the more i realize that there is so much we don't know
05:05:36 <shachaf> whoa, http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?different+letters+parity/kaki_1416990781&rb
05:06:19 <shachaf> I didn't know about Fixnum#[]
05:06:55 <oren> one of my lecturers began a lecture with "this is what is true about image processing as of last week"
05:07:13 <oren> we are in such a new field
05:08:00 <CrazyM4n> Did you see how google just managed to make an accurate, plain english image recognition engine?
05:08:26 <J_Arcane> oren: I just really hope the sudden popularity of FP doesn't prove to be a bubble by the time I get out into the work place. XD
05:08:58 <J_Arcane> But then I remember that like 75% of the US financial sector is still writing COBOL and I get depressed ...
05:09:19 <oren> COBOL is better than PHP IMO
05:09:57 <J_Arcane> I was reading an article about inhouse programming languages last night and learned about Hack.
05:10:05 <J_Arcane> Facebook made a typed PHP ... wot.
05:10:29 <oren> that is excellent, solves one of the problems with php
05:10:34 <oren> next compile it
05:11:04 <oren> why the hell do they want to parse and interpret each php file on each request
05:11:05 <CrazyM4n> http://php.net/mysql_real_escape_string
05:11:40 <pikhq> It's kinda amazing the amount of effort they've put into a frankly terrible platform.
05:12:10 <oren> they probably have 10M+SLOC
05:14:03 <oren> SLOC = source lines of code, as opposed to what, preprocessed?
05:15:51 <CrazyM4n> As opposed to the 5 or so lines of bytecode
05:16:08 <J_Arcane> Apparently house-developed programming languages and even just what programming language you use is becoming a big "thing" in competitive terms.
05:16:31 <J_Arcane> Like, it's not uncommon anymore for companies to literally not talk about or even NDA what languages they even use.
05:16:58 <CakeMeat> Kinda easy to figure out what fb uses
05:17:00 <J_Arcane> There's a bunch of companies that use Racket, but almost none of them talk about it publicly at all. They treat it like some kind of secret weapon.
05:18:05 <oren> that is ridicueux.
05:18:35 <J_Arcane> I have a friend who works at a shop with their own hideous in-house XML scripting language, and he is literally not even supposed to talk about it, they act like it's some massive trade secret that they hacked ugly control loops into x-expressions.
05:19:09 <oren> gah. they keep it a secret so that programmers don't run from them like the plague
05:19:36 <oren> who the hell wants to write x-expressions?
05:19:50 <J_Arcane> oren: He's been there like three months, and they're paying him over €3k a month, and he's still looking for another job. So maybe you're right. ;)
05:20:02 <CrazyM4n> They're going to have to kill him
05:21:40 <oren> i am liking these transparent terminal windows btw
05:21:52 <oren> i just found otu about them today
05:22:52 <CrazyM4n> are we showing off terminals? http://i.imgur.com/rdDZJap.png
05:23:15 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
05:25:01 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/469610
05:26:34 <CakeMeat> Sees oren doing stufg in background.
05:27:11 <elliott> ...how did you correctly guess xfce4.
05:27:22 <elliott> there's no window decorations or anything.
05:29:01 <oren> the tiny mouse on the menu button in the top left
05:29:46 <oren> or maybe the window decorations on the remote X matlab window
05:29:51 <elliott> that crappy site cut off the top of the image
05:31:17 <oren> i like the way the title on each ncurses app works like a title for the terminal window
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05:33:56 <newsham> "\x1b]2;" + title + "\x9c"
05:34:32 <oren> i don't have window decorations on my terminals
05:34:44 <oren> there is no need for them
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05:40:08 <oren> btw CrazyM4n i like the tree. is that a 3d model of some sort
05:41:34 <oren> i have another 300 images to run the face detector over
05:41:55 <oren> another all nighter
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05:43:32 <CrazyM4n> I posted it on /r/low_poly a long time ago
05:44:47 <oren> i dunno how to use polygons. i am taking the graphics course next semester. i am only taking the image processing course this term
05:45:28 <oren> fuck why does my arm hurt when i get the flu shot
05:46:41 <CrazyM4n> I just meant do you want the image
05:46:51 <oren> oh. sure why not
05:47:17 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/53qGNGe.jpg
05:48:57 <oren> ~250 images left... god why is this thing so slow
05:50:15 <oren> after this i have to train a thing to recognize male and female faces
05:50:31 <oren> and classify them
05:51:08 <oren> (that is the faces in the images i just located faces in)
05:53:02 <oren> i am already using a multithreaded library with SSE and stuff... this thing is slow despite it
05:53:34 <oren> stupid MEX file was hard to compile too
05:54:40 <oren> i wonder if resizing the jpegs would help.
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06:08:12 <CrazyM4n> if oren comes back tell him I left
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06:23:52 * oren is eating delicious beef jerky
06:25:10 <oren> so did you get your compiler to work?
06:31:26 <cluid> i have to do some debugging
06:31:31 <cluid> but it dont want to
06:31:38 <cluid> I added that thing you recommended about the prototypes though
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06:41:23 <oren> debugging is like the flu shot. it hurts, but you'll be glad later
06:42:12 <oren> so is refactoring. these are the boring bits between the 'battles'
06:46:14 <Sgeo> I'd say flu shots are closer to refactoring than debugging. With both, you only notice how bad it is when you don't do it, not how good it is when you do it
06:47:50 <oren> mhm and i just wasted an hour on one stpid little bug
06:48:29 <Sgeo> I wish I could link the chart I just saw. I'm proud of it
06:51:24 <oren> what was it a chart of?
07:03:57 <cluid> https://gist.github.com/wasabili/737881
07:04:30 <cluid> echo "++++[>++<-].." | driver/brainfuck
07:06:33 <cluid> https://gist.github.com/wasabili/562178 translation from kon fuck to branfuck
07:35:32 <fizzie> Aw, /proc/<pid>/cmdline shows "only" the first 4096 bytes of the command line.
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08:05:18 <fizzie> I was thinking it was some ps limitation that even with 'ww' it's not quite unlimited, but apparently not.
08:05:56 <cluid> its probably the linux kernel?
08:06:00 <cluid> that woudl be my guess where to look first
08:07:47 <b_jonas> fizzie: you're reading it wrong. this is not a limitation, it's the exact opposite. the kernel lets you exec processes with very long command lines, but it won't try to store a pristine copy of that long command line for debug purposes, for that would be a pointless memory leak.
08:08:16 <b_jonas> the kernel could be evil enough like old unixen to restrict your command line length to 4k too, but it's kind enough not to do that.
08:09:38 <b_jonas> the process you start can overwrite the passed command line, and if it's really huge, it could even munmap it in theory (it can't do that for short command lines in normal programs because it's on the same page as the starting stack and the very important elf stack header containing the sysconf data.
08:09:47 <fizzie> b_jonas: But it's not a copy.
08:10:03 <b_jonas> um, not sysconf. whatever that magical data is that's stored there.
08:10:05 <fizzie> At least I don't think it is.
08:10:26 <b_jonas> fizzie: how could it be not a copy? the process you start is free to overwrite that data.
08:10:43 <fizzie> Yes, and I think that will be reflected in proc.
08:10:57 <b_jonas> no, I think there's some system call that lets the process overwrite what's displayed in proc
08:10:58 <fizzie> proc_pid_cmdline: struct mm_struct *mm = get_task_mm(task); len = mm->arg_end - mm->arg_start; if (len > PAGE_SIZE) len = PAGE_SIZE; res = access_process_vm(task, mm->arg_start, buffer, len, 0);
08:11:20 <fizzie> Okay, possibly it's a separate thing.
08:11:35 <fizzie> Because there's a comment that makes reference to setproctitle.
08:11:40 <b_jonas> don't forget that ps can display two or three different commandline-like things
08:11:52 <b_jonas> also that all this depends a lot on your flavor of unix
08:11:55 <fizzie> But still, that if (len > PAGE_SIZE) len = PAGE_SIZE; makes it look like an arbitrary limit.
08:12:59 <oren> page_size's arent arbitrary, assuming that that means a memory page like in my OS course. it's a property of the mmu.
08:13:28 <fizzie> "arbitrary" in the sense that it could read the whole thing from mm->arg_start to mm->arg_end.
08:13:41 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/PCPR is the entire thing, for the record.
08:17:08 <oren> wow that is arbitrary. but maybe some limitation is necessary to stop some exploit?
08:20:07 <cluid> why does the linux kernel use goto?
08:20:24 <oren> because gotos are good.
08:20:37 <oren> gotos are very clear when used well
08:21:21 <oren> especially if the labels are named descriptively
08:22:13 <int-e> Gotos are good for matching resource allocation with cleanup.
08:22:45 <cluid> http://lpaste.net/115710
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08:23:14 <oren> and they are not confusing. go to here, go to there, it could not be clearer
08:23:39 <oren> with your code you have to count }s
08:23:49 <elliott> pro-goto reactionaries are so last century :p
08:23:55 <elliott> (you need goto in C though because it sucks too much)
08:23:58 <fizzie> oren: "The answer to that is that if you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed anyway, and should fix your program." -- kernel style guide.
08:24:04 <fizzie> Er, that was to cluid.
08:24:28 <oren> right, i'm arguing in favor of goto (but only in C)
08:24:35 <cluid> idea; amend c with some kind of exception handling mechanism
08:24:51 <oren> setjmp longjmp
08:24:57 <oren> it already has one
08:24:59 <cluid> i mean something really simple
08:25:03 <cluid> that desugars into goto
08:25:18 <cluid> something that is block structured
08:25:31 <oren> block structure is confusing
08:25:55 <Sgeo> ALTER OREN TO PROCEED TO COBOL
08:26:28 <oren> wait is that a TOFROM statement like i suggested earlier today?
08:26:36 <oren> COBOL has one?
08:26:36 <int-e> cluid: compare that to the current version, https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/fs/proc/base.c#L199-L209
08:27:20 <Sgeo> oren: I didn't see your TOFROM statement
08:27:27 <fizzie> int-e: I was looking at an old copy since that's what I had around.
08:27:39 <cluid> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/0cf744bc7ae8e0072159a901f6e1a159bbc30ffa/mm/util.c#L364
08:27:41 <cluid> so they moved the code here
08:29:16 <Sgeo> http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/cobol-horrors.html
08:29:57 <oren> earlier today (well, yesterday) i suggested you could have a statement that connects any two lines so control would flow from one to the other
08:30:38 <cluid> nondeterministic finite automata
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08:30:57 <cluid> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterministic_finite_automaton#mediaviewer/File:NFASimpleExample.svg
08:31:38 <Sgeo> oren: there needs to be a GOTO statement to alter
08:31:55 <oren> oh, so it is a limited TOFROM
08:32:04 <int-e> aaaah beautiful switch statement... https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/fs/afs/fsclient.c#L1488
08:32:50 <Sgeo> Also not sure if you can actually compute
08:33:16 <Sgeo> http://computer-programming-forum.com/48-cobol/b7aab4801e867645.htm
08:33:16 <cluid> int-e, that line 1557 looks very confusing
08:33:33 <cluid> oh actually its ok
08:33:39 <cluid> I didn't realiez they incremented twice
08:34:21 <oren> C needs a goto case [n] statment. would make that line clearer
08:34:39 <zzo38> Well, or with Cobol's ALTER to cause it to alter the program to connect two lines of control.
08:34:49 <cluid> what about continue; ?
08:34:52 <zzo38> oren: Yes, that is also something I have wanted to look at too
08:35:24 <zzo38> Also, C doesn't have \& like Haskell but I can just use "" instead it works OK
08:36:56 <oren> what does \& do in haskell?
08:38:42 <shachaf> It's an escape sequence that turns into nothing.
08:39:57 <oren> ummm why would you need such thing?
08:40:50 <shachaf> Well, that wasn't so effective. But anyway \ followed by any number of digits is a single character.
08:41:21 <b_jonas> > let { x = "abc\ &def" } in (x, length x)
08:41:22 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '&'
08:41:44 <cluid> > let { x = "abc\ \def" } in (x, length x)
08:42:19 <oren> no stranger than perl tho
08:42:27 <int-e> b_jonas: imagine a line break in the middle and line up the second \ with the first "
08:42:34 <cluid> i want to make a language with regex syntax builtin
08:42:37 <int-e> then it'll look quite nice.
08:42:51 <cluid> int-e, I tend to use unlines for that
08:42:58 <cluid> and I found it strange that people used \ \ for it
08:43:19 <b_jonas> > "backslash: \\; nothing: \&"
08:43:25 <b_jonas> but once you put spaces in them,
08:43:31 <oren> i think most things in a language besides control flow should be sublanguages
08:43:36 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
08:43:38 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '&'
08:43:55 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '/'
08:44:35 <oren> `! c printf("lolwut?\flolwut\n");
08:45:06 <oren> `! c int main(){printf("lolwut?\flolwut\n");}
08:45:32 <cluid> i guess \f isnt a thing
08:45:33 <oren> `! c int main(){printf("lolwut?\\flolwut\\n");}
08:45:50 <cluid> https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/syntax-iso.html
08:45:54 <oren> actually \f should be form feed
08:45:58 <cluid> I like the L function part of haskell syntax
08:45:58 <b_jonas> on a different note, I think this one is approperiate for this channel: schmorp reports that he's made http://cvs.schmorp.de/vt102/vt102 , a vt100/102/131 hardware simulator, i.e. it runs the original dec vt roms for 100% perfetc temreinal "emulation"
08:46:16 <elliott> b_jonas: can I use it as my terminal
08:46:44 <oren> form feed used to eject the current page and start a new one
08:47:05 <b_jonas> elliott: sort of. it puts the output to another terminal, so you can't use it alone, but yes
08:47:33 <cluid> https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/lexemes.html#lexemes-char
08:48:35 <int-e> cluid: If you're going to use the string as a Bytestring, having a single string literal is *highly* beneficial. That's because string literals are normally translated into something like unpackCString# "foobar"# and Bytestring has a rule to directly use the constant character string "foobar"#
08:49:10 <int-e> So that's one reason for using that syntax.
08:49:55 <int-e> The story is less nice for Text, because it has to convert from UTF-8 to UTF-16.
08:50:03 <zzo38> b_jonas: I did not hear of that before, now I do!
08:50:19 <shachaf> I like how string literals with \0s in them are encoded.
08:50:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: "< schmorp> this is what i hacked on in the last few days:" half a day ago
08:51:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: also "< schmorp> 4 out of the 6 days needed were lost on debugging that single cpu instruction that was broken" [in his emulator]
08:52:09 <zzo38> I like this kind of ideas
08:52:41 <b_jonas> zzo38: it's crazy, but yeah
08:55:40 <oren> i figured out something. instead of trying to make escape chars work in scrip7, i am simply putting in Hollerith strings as anoption
08:56:10 <oren> no lore \ rubbish escapes except the most common ones
08:56:44 <oren> just do 13|anything here
08:57:12 <cluid> wow this terminal code is cool
08:57:42 <zzo38> Actually, I like Hollerith strings as an option too
08:58:02 <oren> the point of hollerith notation is that literally any bytes can be placed after the |
08:58:52 <oren> because there is no ending delimiter
08:59:01 <cluid> howdoes that let you write 0x3030303030
08:59:30 <oren> it doesn't but 5%30
09:00:05 <oren> the entire literal syntax is being revamped it will break some of my example programs
09:00:35 <b_jonas> does anyone have a pastebin mover bot here?
09:00:54 <b_jonas> or does HackEgo have such a command?
09:01:16 <cluid> 5% is fine forget this
09:02:28 <oren> a literal is: N S D where N is a number in decimal, S is a symbol and D depends on what kind of literal it is
09:02:46 <oren> when there is no symbol it is simply a decimal number
09:03:19 <oren> when there is only a symbol default parameters are assumed
09:03:54 <oren> so %30 is 0x30.
09:04:53 <zzo38> Do you like: callCC x = lemCC >>= either return x;
09:05:06 <elliott> oren: you should be able to use other bases than decimal for N imo
09:05:13 <elliott> also you should be able to use this recursively
09:05:42 <oren> what use would that be?
09:05:44 <cluid> lemCC :: Either a (a -> Cont r b)
09:06:01 <oren> integersonly go up to 8 bytes
09:06:19 <cluid> zzo38, this looks Interesting
09:06:40 <zzo38> cluid: No that isn't quite the type. Although a definition of lemCC in terms of callCC: lemCC = callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left));
09:06:54 <zzo38> lemCC :: ContT r m (Either a (a -> ContT r m b));
09:07:00 <oren> so the maximum thing before % is 8.
09:07:02 <cluid> A though about this
09:07:14 <zzo38> You need a Cont around your type; other than that it works
09:07:14 <cluid> Various 'characterization' of classic logic are intuitionistically equivalent
09:07:27 <cluid> piece law ((a -> b) -> a) -> a is the normal callcc, I think
09:07:33 <FireFly> <oren> one of my lecturers began a lecture with "this is what is true about image processing as of last week" ← what was it about?
09:07:45 <cluid> so then excluded middle Either a (a -> b) could be define interms of it, and vice versa
09:08:02 <oren> it was about google's ability to classify images
09:08:04 <elliott> cluid: have you seen oleg's haskell "lem"
09:08:04 <zzo38> Although at least to me, using law of excluded middle to define continuations is easier to understand
09:08:15 <elliott> cluid: http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/lem.html
09:08:17 <elliott> it doesn't use continuations
09:09:31 <oren> Firefly: and in particular the performance of their awesome superclusters
09:09:38 <cluid> http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~lengrand/Work/Teaching/MPRI/lecture1.pdf slide 30
09:09:43 <cluid> the evil of excluded middle
09:10:06 <FireFly> oren: reminds me of http://code.flickr.net/2014/10/20/introducing-flickr-park-or-bird/
09:10:12 <FireFly> Which is also pretty recent I suppose
09:11:26 <oren> there is an issue with teaching a course where the answers are changing so fast
09:11:46 <oren> that is why this course has a project not a final exam
09:12:59 <cluid> zzo38, In a book I read, instead of doing it as a monad they add a new binder to lambda calculus
09:13:53 <cluid> if you can prove _|_ given x : phi -> _|_, then /\x. M : phi
09:15:17 <oren> what the heck is ⊥
09:15:27 <cluid> oren, its a data type with no constructor
09:15:29 <oren> i didn't take the logic course
09:16:19 <oren> where do data types interact with given and proving things?
09:16:45 <cluid> they're just different terms for the same thing
09:18:16 <oren> huh? a data type is an interpretation for some digital data... how does that interact with logical proofs?
09:18:56 <zzo38> Specifying a value of the type proves it
09:21:03 <FireFly> oren: heh, the image processing class I'm taking has a final exam.
09:21:13 <cluid> oren, you can think of typed lambda calculus as a programming language and/or a logic
09:21:35 <cluid> it serves as a foundation for both
09:22:21 <oren> is it possible to design a cpu that runs lambda calculus?
09:22:55 <cluid> you have to compile it to something more easy to make an instruction set for
09:23:10 <cluid> i dont know much about these things, but that's what I think
09:23:47 <FireFly> I don't see why you couldn't, if you use some encoding like BLC or so
09:24:21 <cluid> FireFly, for one thing the "instructions" can be arbitrarily wrong - normally instruction sets are encoded in a handful of bytes
09:25:06 <cluid> second there is a lot of things like free variables.. envronments.. which an interpreter would normally handle - it's not clear how a CPU could run it directly
09:25:15 <zzo38> oren: It proves the type!
09:25:24 <cluid> maybe you have registers for environment, continuation etc..
09:25:32 <zzo38> You can try to learn about Curry-Howard.
09:25:42 <cluid> i guess the CPU they mention in the last chapter of SICP does that
09:27:04 <cluid> A better approach is to mak ea good CPU and then compile languaegs to it
09:28:12 <oren> but lambda calculus and all this is incredibly far from what our standard cpus do...
09:28:25 <zzo38> If you know anything about sequent calculus you can also look at: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gentzen You can see it is using the logical rules of sequent calculus to execute a computer program.
09:28:39 <elliott> cluid: have you seen reduceron
09:28:48 <oren> what our normal cpus do is manipulate sets of bits
09:29:07 <oren> according to other sets of bits
09:29:44 <oren> (usually of a fixed size called the word size of the cpu)
09:30:22 <cluid> and garbage collection
09:30:51 <oren> so languages designed on such principles are easy to make fast on our normal cpus
09:31:52 <oren> i think we need to put functional programming into the cpu itself to really make it fast
09:32:31 <cluid> ive just explained in detail
09:32:56 <oren> you said you would make a "good cpu" what does that mean?
09:33:14 <cluid> just something like x86 64
09:33:20 <oren> and why are cpus based on manipulating fixed size bit strings "good"
09:34:13 <oren> does this imply that languages based on such will always be faster?
09:34:35 <cluid> well a CPU is put on a circuit board
09:34:55 <cluid> so it has to have address buses like 64 wires in parallel for a word
09:35:06 <cluid> so the instruction sets are in accordance with that
09:35:22 <cluid> if you tried to handle a language with arbitrary length bit strings you would not be able do it in a good way
09:35:28 <cluid> s/language/instruction set/
09:36:00 <cluid> so if a CPU is good general purpose computation, then you can compile all different languages onto it
09:36:14 <cluid> Thats why I think the way to make functional languages fast is better compilers
09:36:41 <oren> isn't BLC "general computation" (Church turing thingy)
09:36:49 <cluid> although the thing elliott mentioned runs haskell 40x faster than on a normal CPU
09:38:01 <oren> ah i see, so i'm right. building functional programming into the cpu will increase performance of functional languages
09:38:42 <oren> (and presumably this thing can't run C very well)
09:41:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41342&oldid=40497 * Zzo38 * (+491) +[[Gentzen]]
09:41:41 <oren> perhaps this sort of thing can help with JS performance too!
09:44:49 <oren> actually, fpga's have so many uses, why don't all computerscome with fpga's built in?
09:46:14 <zzo38> One reason is that nobody builds generic-open-source-FPGA; due to this you require specific operating systems and CPU to be able to use them
09:46:53 <oren> i see. then there is a market opportunity for plug and play fpga
09:47:17 <oren> would take a lot of venture capital obviously
09:47:30 <cluid> it would be cool to try programming an FPGA
09:47:37 <zzo38> Wihle there are some open-source FPGA designs none of them have ever been manufactured.
09:47:38 <cluid> but it might be very difficult,
09:47:57 <oren> i've done it in one course, we used verilog which is very similar to C
09:48:34 <oren> what university do you go to cluid?
09:51:41 <oren> uhh... i guess this is because i was always expected to get a degree in my family, so i can't even fathom not going
09:52:01 <elliott> not everyone lives the life their parents expect of them
09:52:43 <oren> i know. my dad is annoyed i'm not going for a phd
09:52:58 <cluid> why dont you do a PhD
09:53:07 <oren> because i like money
09:53:20 <cluid> byou could design a new CPU
09:53:39 <oren> i'll do that and make money by starting a company
09:53:49 <oren> if i was going to do that
09:54:46 <oren> anyway there are 3phds and a dd in my family so they are annoyed
09:55:18 <FireFly> Doesn't seem like reason enough to be annoyed
09:55:24 <oren> i like to pronounce phd phud
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09:58:13 <fizzie> FireFly: Perhaps they were hoping to break some sort of family doctoral density record.
09:58:56 <oren> would not workwith my dad's side having no-one but him and my youngest aunt
09:59:36 <oren> actually no wait my other aunt has a doctor of divinity
09:59:51 <oren> the other d.d.
10:00:11 <cluid> it would be fun to design own CPUs on an FPGA
10:00:16 <cluid> and try running your own code on them
10:00:39 <oren> FPGA's cost about 100 dollars i think
10:00:51 <oren> plus the software cost
10:01:02 <myname> cluid: i had that exact same thought
10:01:21 <myname> cluid: but then i remembered that i hate VHDL and would never use that CPU for anything
10:01:25 <myname> so i dropped that idea
10:01:37 <oren> use verilog instead
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10:05:47 <oren> i guess i oughta go home and eat breakfast
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10:35:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[REGXY]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41343&oldid=41226 * Oerjan * (-38) /* External resources */ Use template
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10:37:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41344&oldid=41271 * Oerjan * (+18) /* External resources */ yearcat
10:42:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41345&oldid=41244 * Oerjan * (+1) /* Normal implementations */ sp
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10:56:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41346&oldid=41341 * Oerjan * (+0) /* K */ order
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11:39:54 <mroobmoobn> There are people buying FPGAs to install Softcpus on them
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11:56:30 <int-e> Failed, modules loaded: none.
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12:14:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Return Oriented Programming]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41347&oldid=41298 * Oerjan * (+45) some proofreading
12:15:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Return Oriented Programming]] to [[Return-oriented Programming]]: I see no reason to use a different title than Wikipedia
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12:16:08 <oerjan> oops, 1/10 second later i realize the p isn't capitalized
12:16:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Return-oriented Programming]] to [[Return-oriented programming]]: Whoops
12:17:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Return Oriented Programming]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41351&oldid=41349 * Oerjan * (+0) fix link
12:19:01 <oerjan> and there the wiki goes down
12:19:50 <oerjan> and the neigbors start making noise
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12:21:48 <oerjan> oops maybe the whole server did
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12:25:27 <HackEgo> 12:24:33 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
12:25:39 <oerjan> OH NO IT IS REBOOTING ALL THE TIME
12:26:18 <fizzie> 07:25:07 up 98 days, 10:55, 1 user, load average: 0.19, 0.14, 0.31
12:26:25 <fizzie> I guess something transient, then.
12:28:42 <fizzie> I "run" the wiki, for some values of run.
12:28:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Pikalang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41352&oldid=41300 * Oerjan * (+48) Not signing: the sign of the times
12:28:55 <fizzie> And it's the same server, so I've been doing hackego-related things occasionally.
12:29:27 <fizzie> oerjan: What's next, top-posting in the talk pages?
12:35:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41353&oldid=41302 * Oerjan * (+1) Not knowing the alphabet: also a sign.
12:38:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41354&oldid=41317 * Oerjan * (+4) /* External Links */ standard section name + fmt
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12:43:50 <fizzie> Sometimes it feels that way, with all the Haskellists.
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13:06:36 <mroobmoobn> > let f xs = (head xs == last xs)||(f (tail xs)) in f [1,2,3]
13:06:49 <mroobmoobn> > let f xs = (head xs == last xs)||(f (tail xs)) in f [1,1,1]
13:07:20 <mroobmoobn> > let f xs = (head xs == last xs)||(f (tail (tail xs))) in f [1,2,3]
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13:08:31 <oerjan> > let f xs = (head xs == last xs)||(f (tail (tail xs))) in f [1,2,3,4]
13:08:33 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list
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13:09:38 <fizzie> That was a confusing function, in the "what's it good for" sense.
13:09:59 <oerjan> (it can never return False)
13:12:18 <fizzie> > last $ cycle [0] -- a metaphor for life
13:16:55 <int-e> Don't fix what ain't broken.
13:17:20 <oerjan> how do you know my id isn't broken
13:17:35 <int-e> lambdabot's id seems fine to me
13:17:45 <int-e> I don't know about yours
13:22:02 <int-e> > (84-) 42 -- of course my test wasn't very thorough.
13:22:33 <int-e> @check x == id (x :: Int)
13:22:35 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Int’
13:22:35 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr’Couldn't match expected type...
13:22:42 <mroobmoobn> funny thing is that prop_Foo x y = x == y always succeeds anyway ;)
13:22:44 <int-e> @check \x -> x == id (x :: Int)
13:23:32 <int-e> @check \x y -> x == [y]
13:23:34 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
13:23:50 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 5 tests and 1 shrink):
13:23:58 <int-e> @check \x y -> (x) == [y] -- prettier
13:23:59 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
13:24:04 <int-e> @check \x y -> (x) == [y]
13:24:06 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
13:24:31 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Exception: 'Prelude.last: empty list' (after 1 test):
13:26:42 <oerjan> @check \f x -> x == map f x
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13:33:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[K-on Fuck]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41355&oldid=41340 * Oerjan * (+20) bold, stub, link
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14:11:53 <fizzie> @check \a b c n -> not ((a :: Int) > 0 && (b :: Int) > 0 && (c :: Int) > 0 && (n :: Int) > 2 && a^n + b^n == c^n)
14:11:55 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 95 tests and 10 shrinks):
14:12:47 <fizzie> Shows what you know, Wiles.
14:13:45 <fizzie> (I was originally planning a different joke, about how he overcomplicated things, since in query-testing it passed.)
14:18:46 <Jafet> @let a --> b = not a || b
14:19:14 <Jafet> @check \a b c n -> not (((a :: Int) > 0 && (b :: Int) > 0 && (c :: Int) > 0 && (n :: Int) > 2) --> (a^n + b^n == c^n))
14:19:15 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
14:19:27 <Jafet> Apparently logic is hard
14:20:24 <Jafet> @check \a b -> (a --> b) == (if a then b else True)
14:20:49 <Jafet> @check \a b c n -> ((a :: Int) > 0 && (b :: Int) > 0 && (c :: Int) > 0 && (n :: Int) > 2) --> not (a^n + b^n == c^n)
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14:26:52 <fizzie> @check \a b c n -> ((a :: Int) > 0 && (b :: Int) > 0 && (c :: Int) > 0 && (n :: Int) > 2) --> a^n + b^n /= c^n
14:26:53 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Bool’
14:26:54 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘GHC.Types.Int’Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Bool...
14:27:06 <fizzie> Aw, I guess I got bitten by some precedence.
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14:47:22 <fizzie> @check \a b c n -> ((a :: Int) > 0 && (b :: Int) > 0 && (c :: Int) > 0 && (n :: Int) > 2) --> a^n + b^n /= c^n
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15:28:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41357&oldid=41356 * SuperJedi224 * (-1) /* Mineso */
15:28:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41358&oldid=41357 * SuperJedi224 * (+2) /* [Mmmm()] */
15:37:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41359&oldid=41342 * SuperJedi224 * (+186) /* GolfScript */
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17:25:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41360&oldid=41359 * BCompton * (+60) /* SyL */
17:36:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41361&oldid=41360 * BCompton * (-1) /* Tag */
17:49:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41362&oldid=41358 * Tromp * (+46)
17:51:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41363&oldid=41362 * Tromp * (+0)
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18:25:38 <b_jonas> does "/MSG CHANSERV PLEASE #somechannel ABSTAIN FROM JOINING" set the moderated flag?
18:27:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41364&oldid=41361 * Tromp * (+105)
18:28:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41365&oldid=41363 * Tromp * (+17) /* Binary lambda calculus */
18:37:46 <int-e> b_jonas: shouldn't that be +i, invitation only...
18:37:57 <b_jonas> int-e: oh right, the invitation only flag
18:38:16 <int-e> but I like the idea :)
18:38:49 <b_jonas> I wonder if there's a channel mode like "PLEASE #somechannel ABSTAIN FROM 60% JOINING" which lets people join successfully only 40% of the time
18:38:56 <b_jonas> but I don't think intercal has that
18:40:08 <b_jonas> I guess you could simulate it by something like "DO COMESUB FROM JOINING DO REINSTATE JOINING PLEASE 60% ABSTAIN FROM JOINING DO RESUME"
18:40:37 <b_jonas> that would reset the flag each time somebody joins
18:40:52 <b_jonas> though you'd better put a label in front of that COMESUB so you can later ABSTAIN from it
18:44:03 <tromp_> int-e: feel free to shorten my blc program for truth :)
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18:55:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41366&oldid=41364 * BCompton * (+108) /* Tag */
18:57:13 <tromp_> is there a list of problems like hello world and truth machine?
18:58:44 <nyuszika7h> I made a little dc program to simpliy fractions \o/
18:58:45 <nyuszika7h> nyuszika7h@cadoth ~ $ dc -e '[s0q]sa[dst%ltrlgx]sb[d0=ad0!=b]sg[? ]n?dstrdltrlgxdsd/rld/rn[ ]np'
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19:09:07 <b_jonas> tromp_: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code
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19:09:40 <b_jonas> tromp_: specficailly http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Programming_Tasks
19:11:28 <int-e> tromp_: I have a different 69 bits one... but nothing smaller
19:12:13 <tromp_> thx, b_jonas. and thx int-e for searching fot the truth:)
19:15:58 <int-e> (it's pity that the meanings of 0 and 1 aren't reversed, \z.z x x would be 2 bits shorter ;-) )
19:16:08 <tromp_> yes, i had the same realization!
19:18:24 <int-e> I'm also tempted to replace (\z.z x nil) by xs, but I guess it's against the rules.
19:19:54 <tromp_> yeah, the problem statement is ambiguous there
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19:23:22 <nyuszika7h> xs? why not just a one-letter variable then? :P
19:23:45 <int-e> nyuszika7h: because the code is compiled to binary lambda calculus
19:24:26 <oren> it is a functional machine code
19:24:29 <nyuszika7h> b_jonas: well, you can do +j 40:100 which only lets 40 people join within a 100-second time window
19:25:09 <int-e> nyuszika7h: https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/truth.lam is what we write, which becomes 010001101000000110000000010110111001011110000010010111111011111011110 (using truth) or 000110000001011100001011011100000100100011010000001011000001001110110 (using truth2) when compiled.
19:26:58 <oren> yay, functional machine code!
19:34:50 <nyuszika7h> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/99_Bottles_of_Beer that lyrics is wrong :/
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19:57:47 <oren> I once heard someone sing it as α₀ bottles of beer
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20:17:36 <oren> i dunno maybe they're still singing it for alli know
20:39:36 <elliott> are you sure you don't mean aleph
20:41:51 <fizzie> I completely didn't even notice. Some sort of a "sounds alike == looks alike" brain-wiring thing.
21:04:25 <b_jonas> nyuszika7h: isn't that like "first day of Christmas" which has multiple different lyrics, many of them ocurring in example programs and obfuscations?
21:05:18 <b_jonas> maybe there's a need for an international standard that specifies the default text for hello world, first day of Christmas, 99 bottles of beer, and all the similar stuff
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21:13:19 <b_jonas> hmm, I found this from 1995: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1882.html
21:15:18 <fizzie> Knuth, D. "The Complexity of Songs", Communications of the ACM, 1984, 24(4) pp. 344-346 also gives one definition for 99bob.
21:16:27 <b_jonas> and as for hello, world, the authoritive standard is of course the K&R book
21:17:10 <fizzie> It refers to "J. W. Blatz of Mulwaukee, Wisconsin who first discovered a class of songs known as "m Bottles of Beer on the Wall".
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21:18:14 <fizzie> With a footnote: "Again Kennedy ([8], p. 631) claims priority for the English, in this case because of the song "I'll drink m if you'll drink m + 1." However, the English start at m = 1 and get no higher than m = 9, possibly because they actually drink the beer instead of allowing the bottles to fall."
21:22:33 <int-e> tromp_: I can't believe I didn't try that variant sooner.
21:23:50 <nyuszika7h> b_jonas: well, http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/ pretty much defines a de facto standard
21:24:11 <nyuszika7h> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/lyrics.html
21:26:26 <int-e> and then there's the local let trick
21:29:38 <tromp_> loop shld no longer be applied to x
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21:31:03 <tromp_> you can also remove the suboptimal defs
21:31:11 <int-e> I like the history
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21:34:29 <tromp_> i actually started out with a version of your truth2
21:34:37 <tromp_> but for some reason mine was 70 bits
21:34:52 <tromp_> which led me to my 69 bit truth
21:35:10 <FireFly> tromp_, int-e: what problem is 'truth machine'?
21:35:24 <tromp_> it's a totally dumb problem:(*
21:35:27 <int-e> FireFly: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine
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21:41:39 <int-e> tromp_: one nice thing about truth = \xs.xs(\x\d\z.z x (x nil (truth xs))) is that one can write it out as halftruth = \ht\xs.xs(\x\d\z.z x (x nil (ht ht xs))); and then make truth = halftruth halftruth.
21:45:33 <fizzie> b_jonas: Time has sort of passed by the indignation inherent in the "It's a 10GB database!" interjection.
21:45:39 <fizzie> b_jonas: (In the RFC you quoted.)
21:47:46 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, and that's not even the most dated part
21:48:45 <fizzie> The SCSI parts are perhaps somewhat passé too.
21:49:19 <fizzie> (Although I did find a SCSI terminator when rummaging through stuff just last week.)
21:50:47 <tromp_> int-e: isn't that what the recursion eliminator already does?
21:51:01 <tromp_> expect it doesn't call it halftruth:)
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21:52:21 <int-e> tromp_: I was after the name
21:54:11 <int-e> tromp_: I was also looking into some more clever argument order abuse (if you invoke things as \io. io halftruth halftruth, then halftruth can be written as \x\d\ht\z. ... with the halftruth argument somewhere in the middle. It didn't help, but it's something that the automatic blc translation won't accomplish.
21:55:59 <tromp_> rosettacode is nice, but i wondered if there was a task list on the esolangs. wiki itself
21:57:41 <int-e> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Popular_problem ?
21:58:31 <int-e> (just following a link from the "Truth machine" page)
22:06:59 <b_jonas> tromp_: you can just use the same tasks
22:07:08 <b_jonas> why would you need a separate list?
22:10:38 <tromp_> because competing with other esolangs feels more manageable
22:11:16 <tromp_> i like the idea of a set of tasks that would appeal more to esolangs
22:27:43 <fizzie> Hrm. The youtube-dl in Debian has stopped working.
22:27:58 <fizzie> (The one in testing, anyway.)
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22:29:43 <fizzie> I guess there's been a couple of newer ones in unstable, but they haven't migrated.
22:30:42 <fizzie> Oh, of course, jessie's freeze. Hmp.
22:32:30 <FireFly> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus#Delimited_versus_undelimited "the only caveat being that N will be passed to M as its third argument" in the final sentence--shouldn't N and M be swapped here?
22:32:49 <FireFly> er, oops, I didn't notice the "to". Never mind
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22:56:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mmmm()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41367&oldid=41330 * 71.184.241.244 * (+25)
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23:48:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41368&oldid=41346 * 70.162.52.61 * (+18) Added simplefunge, should have been added long ago