00:06:12 <fizzie> My cost function based on Euclidean distance just went negative. :/
00:08:05 <fizzie> And not just by a little bit, either -- http://sprunge.us/cehd
00:08:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:11:09 <fizzie> Oh, complex numbers. Well, that's not a surprise.
00:18:16 <oren> in what crazy language are variables complex by default?
00:19:16 <CrazyM4n> I, for one, prefer the complex number plane
00:20:38 <oren> its crazy because it is not conventional
00:24:48 <oren> it isn't necessarily a bad thing to be unconventional
00:30:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: you're completely off base).
00:32:11 <fizzie> (Did a sqrt on the wrong thing, one that was a bit negative.)
01:13:20 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
01:27:33 -!- GeekDude has joined.
01:43:24 <elliott> fizzie: what are you costing?
01:54:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * XorSwap * New user account
02:08:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eve]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41369 * XorSwap * (+484) An event and stack oriented language
02:12:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41370&oldid=41369 * XorSwap * (+88)
02:33:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41371&oldid=41370 * XorSwap * (+1623)
02:37:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41372&oldid=41371 * XorSwap * (+98)
02:48:09 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:56:28 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
02:58:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41373&oldid=41372 * XorSwap * (+768)
02:58:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41374&oldid=41373 * XorSwap * (+1) /* = Explanation */
03:02:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:XorSwap]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41375 * XorSwap * (+222) Created page with "I like to think up esolangs. I'm still working on the whole 'implement' bit. The only one I've written the spec for so far is [[Eve]]. My website can be found at the rather..."
04:07:52 -!- qwertyo has joined.
04:58:00 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
04:58:07 -!- qwertyo has joined.
05:06:15 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).
05:12:02 <oren> it is saturday nao!
05:26:11 <oren> that is the time where i am
05:28:06 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
05:28:40 -!- qwertyo has joined.
05:36:07 -!- CrazyM4n has joined.
05:36:08 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Client Quit).
05:36:12 -!- CrazyM4n_ has joined.
05:36:25 -!- CrazyM4n_ has changed nick to CrazyM4n.
05:38:53 <CrazyM4n> So I'm making a generic 2d language IDE
05:39:13 <oren> in Ncurses or what?
05:39:58 <CrazyM4n> This is gonna have to be some Emacs vs Vim style buisness
05:40:20 <oren> screw both of those they both suck
05:40:54 <oren> i used to use nano but now i use midnight commander
05:41:10 <CrazyM4n> I'm talking about text editors, not DoTA heroes
05:41:37 <CrazyM4n> Does midnight commander even have a text editor?
05:41:41 <oren> mcedit has some nice features
05:42:18 <oren> if you go to the options in mc, it has a "use internal editor" option
05:43:14 <oren> the internal editor has some cool features like a "cursor beyond end of line" option
05:43:35 <oren> which is very useful for fungeoids
05:45:14 <oren> lol. for me editors just have to get out of my way and let me code.
05:45:51 <oren> that is what i use for python
05:46:49 <oren> using a different editor for different languages helps me because i want only spaces for python and only tabs for C
05:47:18 <CrazyM4n> I use tabs for everything except haskell (because I literally can't)
05:47:55 <oren> basically tabs confuse me in languages with significant whitespace
05:48:10 <CrazyM4n> Quick, give me a good symbol to represent a space
05:48:16 <CrazyM4n> That isn't in the funge standards
05:48:35 <CrazyM4n> I'm thinking of using a bullet point
05:50:19 <oren> those are ideographic tho. what about a ∴ or something
05:50:35 <CrazyM4n> ߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦ
05:50:45 <CrazyM4n> Unicode characters can do that?
05:50:55 -!- cluid has joined.
05:51:18 <oren> what symbol for space in a fungeoid editor?
05:51:18 <CrazyM4n> Sorry, I'm having a moment of realization here
05:53:12 <CrazyM4n> I'll just use ☢ for now, it's not worth it to spend too much time on this
05:54:31 <oren> I cannot see that symbol without posting this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv_srA3WY6s
05:56:14 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
05:56:34 -!- qwertyo has joined.
05:56:40 <cluid> a family of languagse based on CHIQRSX9+
05:56:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
05:57:03 <cluid> a program in CHIQRSX9+$language is executed as CHIQRSX9+ if its one character, else as $language
05:57:21 <cluid> maybe remove X since its covered
05:58:03 <SopaXorzTaker> Idea! what about a weird language, where you can redefine keywords and literals? 'assume 123=456; print 123;'
06:00:06 <oren> well redefining operators is easy in lisp or forth
06:00:22 <Jafet> > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2
06:00:40 <elliott> (like that except even weirder)
06:01:53 <oren> sorry... the space of high-concept languages is very crowded
06:02:00 <Jafet> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes
06:02:06 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Quit: "I'll be back, internet dieing").
06:02:23 <oren> he needs to reboot his internet
06:04:18 <oren> literally last week
06:04:37 <oren> made my a dude in japan
06:05:03 <cluid> another idea: The interprter does a bayesian classifier on the source code and then calls the corrct interpreter (so you can write perl, ruby, haskell, lisp... it will just figure itout and run it)
06:05:07 <oren> http://esolangs.org/wiki/MNNBFSL
06:05:24 <cluid> SopaXorzTaker, in scheme you can redefine keywords but not literals
06:06:06 <oren> cluid that sounds like a great idea
06:06:07 <cluid> .g. (let ((lambda +)) (lambda (foo) x)) will add
06:06:24 <cluid> MNNBFSL is really cool
06:07:14 <Jafet> The interpreter runs all installed interpreters in parallel and picks one that works
06:08:49 <elliott> SopaXorzTaker: $adjective BF exists for all $adjective
06:09:11 <oren> including K-on BF
06:09:18 <oren> as in the show K-on
06:10:00 <cluid> so can anyone help me understand K-on fuck
06:10:09 <cluid> I thought that its just a text subittution for brainfuck
06:10:34 <oren> it just has an ungooglable name
06:10:41 <cluid> https://gist.github.com/wasabili/640572
06:10:51 <cluid> but I found this, which is a formatter version of the azunyan interpreter
06:10:59 <cluid> (ac > 1 && av[1][0] == 97)? a537():kofi();
06:11:02 <cluid> im not sure what this is
06:11:21 <cluid> here is hello world example https://gist.github.com/wasabili/640467
06:11:27 <elliott> cluid: ac is argc, av is argv
06:11:28 <cluid> I can ad this to the wiki after we figure it out
06:11:34 <oren> it is probably some shift jis hackery
06:11:37 <elliott> so if there are arguments passed and the first letter of the first argument is 97 which is uh
06:11:45 <cluid> https://gist.github.com/wasabili/640461 less obfuscated version
06:11:54 <elliott> so $ ./a.out astuff calls a537() instead of running the interpreter
06:12:00 <elliott> I suspect it's just an easter egg
06:12:12 <cluid> https://gist.github.com/wasabili/562178 this is what made me think that it is a bf substitution originally
06:12:47 <elliott> that code doesn't even compile though :p
06:12:57 -!- CakeMeat has joined.
06:13:01 -!- CrazyM4n has joined.
06:13:11 <oren> did you try running the interpreter and writing stuff into it
06:14:15 <elliott> warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe.
06:14:33 <elliott> ./a.out a does weird things too
06:14:52 <cluid> http://esolangs.org/wiki/K-on_Fuck
06:15:02 <elliott> except if it's afoo then it prints 0D
06:15:16 <CakeMeat> gets() who would do such a thing
06:15:41 <CakeMeat> I should make a bot again. Oh the memories
06:16:39 <CrazyM4n> Oh, I didn't show any of you, I made a generic code-running bot
06:16:54 <CrazyM4n> But this one, this one is *extendable* :O
06:18:25 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:19:09 -!- qwertyo has joined.
06:19:48 <cluid> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran wow
06:19:57 <cluid> the SE link is dead but https://github.com/graue/esofiles/blob/master/fractran/impl/fractran-in-fractran.txt
06:20:33 <CrazyM4n> My internet isn't working because Skype is eating all the bandwidth
06:21:03 <oren> pkill -9 skype
06:21:42 <CrazyM4n> I got tired of the crappy linux version (which runs on Wine
06:21:47 <oren> i have an alias in my bashrc of pulseaudiodieinafire
06:22:23 <oren> to pkill -9 pulseaudio
06:22:43 <CrazyM4n> Because it usually solves whatever problem I'm having...
06:22:55 <cluid> does anyone know about this higher levle fractran language he invented?
06:23:02 <coppro> at one point I'm pretty sure I fixed a sound problem with "apt-get remove pulseaudio" and it wasn't even installed
06:23:06 <CrazyM4n> One time, my keyboard was disconnecting and generally being weird and doubling keys,
06:23:10 <CrazyM4n> But killing pulseaudio fixed it
06:23:36 <CrazyM4n> I've actually heard of it before
06:24:35 <cluid> it would be cool to have a compiler from that to fractran, and also a direct implementation
06:26:12 <cluid> its impressive to program in fractran directly
06:26:21 <cluid> I like this approach, of making up a language with subroutines
06:27:13 <CrazyM4n> I hate this https://docs.python.org/3/library/curses.html#curses.window.refresh
06:27:28 <cluid> please discuss fractran
06:27:29 <CrazyM4n> With every shred of my existence right now
06:27:56 <oren> it is like buffering in a graphics library
06:29:31 <oren> you call that at the end of your draw step
06:31:08 <CrazyM4n> First two arguments are the top left of it, the second two are the top right, the last two are the bottom left
06:31:30 <oren> the C version isn't like that
06:32:14 <oren> the C version takes no arguments
06:32:17 <CrazyM4n> I'm really good at reading docs you know
06:32:50 <CrazyM4n> This actually makes sense, the first two args are the coords on the pad
06:33:01 <CrazyM4n> and the last 4 are just the coords of where to render to
06:33:12 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:33:33 -!- qwertyo has joined.
06:43:08 <CrazyM4n> Classic python community.... I ask for how to do something in curses, they tell me to go use their python-only solution and don't answer my original question
06:43:49 <oren> what were you trying to do
06:43:59 <CrazyM4n> Get the cursor position in curses
06:45:12 <oren> http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/ncurses/man/ look here
06:45:54 <oren> should be getyx
06:53:10 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:53:36 -!- qwertyo has joined.
07:13:00 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
07:14:30 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:49:01 -!- cluid has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:56:36 -!- Frooxius has joined.
07:58:18 -!- shikhin has joined.
08:13:32 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
08:15:20 -!- dianne has joined.
08:21:26 <oren> hmmm i think a vernier scale could be a cool design for a videogame exp display
08:23:28 <oren> which languages provide fraction literals?
08:29:44 <HackEgo> 714) <Taneb> I saw a Finnair plane today <ion> In a smoking rubble? <Taneb> Close. <Taneb> Heathrow Airport
08:29:53 <Taneb> I've seen another FinnAir plane!
08:30:39 <int-e> In another desolate environment?
08:30:57 <int-e> (Ok, that's a fair description of 90% of airports anyway.)
08:31:34 <mitchs_> ruby has fraction (Rational) literals as of 2.1.0
08:31:43 <Taneb> int-e, Hong Kong Airport
08:32:01 <Taneb> Possibly Heathrow too, it's been a long day
08:32:12 <mitchs_> CAS languages like pari/gp should generally have them
08:32:26 <Taneb> elliott, Hong Kong Airport, waiting for a connection
08:32:39 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_bird%27s_eye_view_of_Hong_Kong_International_Airport.JPG ... yeah
08:33:01 <mitchs_> or, i'm not sure if it's a fraction literal, so much as that exact representations are preferred over rounding options
08:34:02 <oren> i have a program fragment written on a piece of paper
08:34:05 <int-e> > 2%4 -- not a literal
08:34:19 <oren> and i'm trying to figure out what language it is
08:35:43 <oren> i think it is ruby
08:36:16 <oren> while(z < 45/22)z++
08:36:34 <oren> with no semicolon.
08:37:23 <oren> it could be rubbish i found it abandoned on a desk
08:37:52 <mitchs_> it would be valid awk inside braces
08:37:58 <mitchs_> where 45/22 would be computed as double
08:37:59 <int-e> is it printed or written by hand?
08:38:14 <oren> written by hand in purple pen
08:38:28 <int-e> so missing a semicolon could just be a mistake
08:38:33 <Taneb> probably significant
08:38:51 <int-e> (it could be for printed code, too, but then it would be less likely)
08:38:52 <mitchs_> light purple or dark purple?
08:39:06 <oren> like gel pen it is sparkly
08:40:10 <mitchs_> for hand written things people often write mixture of correct code and short hands for whatever they mean mathematically
08:40:42 <oren> whe problem is it doesn't make sense, why would you increment z while comparing it to a fraction
08:41:11 <mitchs_> z could be floating point ?
08:41:11 <oren> it could be ++ doesn't mean increment in this case
08:42:06 <oren> 45 / 22 is a tiny bit below 2
08:42:35 <oren> so maybe they are a beginner and want <= 2
08:43:05 <Taneb> Maybe it is concievable for the value to be 1/22 and they want that to behave differently?
08:43:19 <oren> ohhh that makes sense
08:43:26 <mitchs_> btw i checked that in pari/gp, "type(1/2)" returns "t_FRAC"
08:45:02 <mitchs_> but it's still just the result of dividing 1 by 2, so it doesn't really seem to be a literal. (i might not know what i'm talking about)
08:45:17 <int-e> If I wanted any value slightly above 2 I probably would not write 45/22. 21/10 or 201/100 would be more likely.
08:46:04 <int-e> but maybe I'm supposed to think that ;-)
08:46:08 <oren> it is possible that this is an empirically found value
08:46:39 <oren> like a value that happens to work for some task
08:48:23 <oren> welp maybe next time i'm there i'll scribble down some mysterious code and leave it
08:50:42 <oren> as it happens i have a sparkly gold pen
08:55:09 <mitchs_> in whole foods (expensive supermarkets with organic food and such), i've noticed the bathroom stalls have inspirational quotes instead of the usual vulgar messages and drawings
08:55:16 <mitchs_> if i had a decent phone i would have taken a picture
08:55:36 <mitchs_> sorry, i meant inspirational quote grafitti written by customers
08:56:23 <mitchs_> things like "be the change you want to see in the world" -- ghandi
08:57:55 <oren> dim x as real: x=1; x-=x^2-2/2*x while i*i /= 2;
08:57:59 <CakeMeat> Taneb why are you traveling so much?
08:58:11 <oren> i will write that and leave in the same desk
08:58:15 <Taneb> Going on holiday, CakeMeat
08:58:34 <Taneb> The first quote must have been in 2009 at the latest...
08:58:58 <Taneb> No, I went to Heathrow a couple of years ago?
08:58:58 <CakeMeat> Good advice for anyone who goes 'round the world
09:00:56 <Taneb> I vaguely know someone called Gandy
09:01:27 <oren> he was the leader of the indian rebellion against the british
09:01:55 <oren> and then he was all pissed when the muslims and hindus could'nt get along afterwards
09:02:26 <Taneb> I know who Gandhi was
09:02:34 <Taneb> I also vaguely know someone called Gandy
09:02:41 <Taneb> Friend of a friend or something
09:03:39 <oren> i see... i have a friend named Teddy but gandy?
09:04:12 <Taneb> I don't really know the guy that well...
09:04:22 <oren> but then again obama is the president and mitt was almost president
09:04:32 <oren> so maybe i dunno what a weird name is
09:04:52 <int-e> All names are weird. Then you get used to them.
09:05:03 <int-e> In fact, Everything is weird.
09:07:40 <oren> right i mean my name is oren with an e and that is weird, but shachaf tells me that's a normal name in Israel
09:08:11 <mitchs_> damn, i spelled graffiti wrong too
09:08:57 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oren
09:14:38 <shachaf> I don't think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ören is related.
09:22:20 <oren> well yeah it's also a japanese name like oren ishii from kill bill
09:23:36 <elliott> your name just reminds me of rin.
09:27:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:41:05 <int-e> oren: http://www.airshipentertainment.com/buckcomic.php?date=20080313
09:42:18 <int-e> oren: a stuffed animal of the Foglio's kids, appears as a major plot element in Buck Godot (people worship it), and has numerous cameo appearances in their other comic(s), like yesterday: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20141205
09:46:00 <int-e> Is there a comprehensive list of webcomics that are popular here? Order of the Stick, Homestuck, Girl Genius...
09:46:38 <elliott> super mega comics was, once upon a time
09:47:11 <int-e> GG may be just oerjan and I.
09:47:42 <elliott> well, for the best that it doesn't or I'd have pinged people
09:47:45 <HackEgo> pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion
09:48:19 <int-e> HackEgo: taking a nap?
09:48:29 <elliott> well, there was probably a pbf since the last time anyone ran that.
10:02:47 <oren> int-e : I also like girl genius.
10:09:34 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
10:09:47 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
10:09:59 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
10:12:30 -!- MoALTz has joined.
10:13:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
10:15:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:15:03 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
10:28:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:54:51 -!- oerjan has joined.
10:58:54 <fizzie> The "big Ø" notation is very useful when talking about asymptotic complexity.
10:59:32 <oerjan> it means "you don't have a chance to understand how big this is" hth
11:00:31 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
11:00:56 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
11:01:11 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
11:04:30 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
11:05:44 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:05:56 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
11:15:14 <int-e> oerjan: So apparently I was wrong after all and Lady Selnikov has merely released the Beast by accident.
11:15:37 <int-e> Then again, appearances can be deceiving.
11:16:15 <oerjan> i am still not convinced she's not orchestrating this.
11:16:36 <int-e> Now if this was the Baron finding her, she'd be revived in some vat in no time.
11:16:39 <oerjan> for one thing, if the monk was shot in the foot, how did he _witness_ these things?
11:16:40 <int-e> But this is Agatha ...
11:17:44 <int-e> Was he shot in the foot? mmm.
11:18:32 <int-e> Ah, I suck at reading as usual.
11:18:37 <oerjan> although the alternative seems to be that he's _lying_ which also seems unlikely. unless there's mind control involved.
11:19:10 <int-e> (I was distracted by the signs in the second panel. "It cannot die but is too stupid to..."
11:19:49 <oerjan> worst case: lady selnikov is the Other and the monk is a revenant.
11:20:02 <oerjan> (possibly newly instated.)
11:20:12 <int-e> In any case, he clearly did not see her *die*.
11:20:32 <int-e> Smoke and wreckage and the a corpse. Now where's the mirror...
11:21:06 <oerjan> hm that _does_ make more sense.
11:21:58 <oerjan> he would presumably have had time to find her, and may have jumped to conclusions on the rest.
11:22:22 <int-e> Is she a Smoke knight? If she's half as good as Violetta, all sorts of things could have happened.
11:22:57 <oerjan> int-e: the winslow can surely be distracting yeah :P
11:24:24 <oerjan> now i'm wondering if the train assassins were working for her and just pretending to try to kill her.
11:24:38 <elliott> you make girl genius sound so exciting
11:24:51 -!- CakeMeat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
11:25:08 <elliott> let me know when the faces aren't horrifying
11:33:28 * oerjan suddenly remember someone with the initials on that book.
11:35:20 <oerjan> well the first letter has never been revealed in story, but it's what you'd expect.
11:37:08 <int-e> wait. http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Van_Rijn ... it's *that* book!
11:37:58 <int-e> But then Agatha should recognize it immediately.
11:38:08 <oerjan> oh, the one from the circus!
11:39:05 <oerjan> i even remember rereading that strip a few days ago
11:39:36 <oerjan> agatha wondered how the muse had found it since it was in her [cut off]
11:40:37 <int-e> damn. 9 years. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051003
11:41:18 <oerjan> oh that's not the strip i was remembering
11:43:30 <int-e> and you were right about Anevka, she's merely a clone of van Rijn's designs. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051104
11:44:38 <oerjan> ah here it is http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060106#.VILrwZUtBjo
11:45:04 <oerjan> (what _is_ with the #.* anchors on that site?)
11:47:47 <int-e> Odd, I don't see those.
11:48:12 <oerjan> well it may have something to do with how i'm visiting it
11:48:17 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
11:49:44 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:49:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
11:50:23 <oerjan> i see it even after following the one you linked. only the rwz part varies.
11:50:58 <oerjan> but it seems to change on each click.
11:54:46 <int-e> strange. must be some sort of malware
11:55:01 <int-e> (that *is* the easiest explanation ;-) )
11:57:00 <int-e> could some "transparent" proxy be adding those extra bits?
11:58:23 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
11:59:25 <oerjan> well i assume it's on the site.
11:59:35 <oerjan> perhaps some javascript.
12:00:01 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:00:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
12:00:14 <oerjan> i think it started after that recent major redesign.
12:01:54 <int-e> well I tried a fresh profile, and I still don't see anything like this.
12:02:06 <int-e> you are using the < and > buttons, right?
12:02:56 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
12:04:14 <int-e> oh, there we have something.
12:04:58 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:05:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
12:05:57 <oerjan> mostly < and >, but also the story navigation menu
12:06:15 <oerjan> and it happens even when i go directly there from the address bar
12:06:59 <int-e> yeah, I see it happening, I just wasn't patient enough...
12:09:18 <int-e> some script from addthis.com does it.
12:10:58 <FireFly> I feel like I read GG too fast to get up-to-speed, because I can't say I remember all the characters and their names :\
12:11:11 <FireFly> There's just so many characters
12:23:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
12:24:54 <int-e> FireFly: it's hard to keep up.
12:29:07 <FireFly> "<int-e> Is there a comprehensive list of webcomics that are popular here?" ← `` ls bin/*list
12:29:28 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure gg isn't there
12:30:25 <oerjan> the *lists don't include comics that update semi-predictably.
12:30:42 <fizzie> I keep interpreting "GG" as "Gunnerkrigg ...Gourt".
12:30:51 <int-e> And they're hard to decipher. It took me months to figure out the meaning of olist.
12:31:51 <int-e> (I would likely have done better if I were actually following OOTS)
12:33:16 <int-e> oerjan: well, imagine my impression of `olist ;-)
12:33:46 <int-e> "okay, people notifying each other of random numbers ... well, maybe I'll figure it out some day."
12:35:44 <int-e> FireFly: GK is a good comic, too, but there's a lot less of plot to discuss.
12:37:22 <int-e> Just continuing oerjan's "OGAY".
12:37:36 <int-e> At least that's the excuse I'll stick to now.
12:42:30 <FireFly> http://bellard.org/bpg/ neat
12:44:05 <oerjan> that's a pretty sticky excuse. do you need help getting off?
12:44:49 * oerjan realizes what he just says
12:45:01 <oerjan> WHAT IS HAPPENING TO MY TENSES
12:45:31 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
12:45:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:45:56 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
12:49:00 <oerjan> FireFly: i find a completely unstyled web page with no date on it slightly disturbing. how do i know whether this is the newest thing or from 1995?
12:49:39 <oerjan> ...well i suppose javascript couldn't usefully do this back then.
12:49:42 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
12:50:10 <FireFly> The spec linked under "Technical information" at least contains a year
12:50:11 <shachaf> oerjan: check the last-modified header hth
12:50:40 <oerjan> *sigh* is it possible to find that in IE...
12:50:50 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:50:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
12:50:57 <FireFly> And following the link to the wikipedia article on HEVC informs me it's from 2013
12:51:00 <shachaf> hmm, that was almost too helpful to follow with "hth"
12:51:13 <oerjan> shachaf: you've got a point
12:51:22 <shachaf> whoa, your browser shows you the last-modified header? how?
12:52:06 <oerjan> shachaf: under "properties"?
12:52:38 <oerjan> (actually "Egenskaper", but i am guessing that's what it's in english)
12:52:40 <shachaf> maybe i should switch to ie
12:53:22 * oerjan is not exactly sure when shachaf started being sarcastic there
12:53:50 <int-e> . o O ( one of those doesn't fit... http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/comics.png )
12:54:12 <shachaf> It's a good feature and I think it would be nice if my browser had it.
12:54:17 <FireFly> the no date point applies to papers too, IME.
12:54:25 <shachaf> I don't use Windows so switching to IE would be way too much work to be worth it.
12:54:35 <shachaf> Yes. I like papers with dates on them.
12:54:38 <FireFly> Arguably even more, since they tend to always follow the same style conventions
12:55:05 <FireFly> I guess if it seems they're using something pre-LaTeX for rendering mathematical expressions, that's an indication that this might be a tad too old
12:56:33 <FireFly> shachaf: Firefox seems to show it under 'view page info'
12:59:03 <oerjan> int-e: is it the "On the cleverness of compilers"?
12:59:21 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
12:59:35 <int-e> the "Untitled Document" is http://faith.rydia.net/episode1/page20.html
13:00:21 <shachaf> whoa, i have a different page with the same title
13:01:13 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
13:01:16 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
13:02:46 <shachaf> My bookmarks are write-only.
13:04:09 <shachaf> My bookmarking strategy is this: I open tabs with things I want to get to. I never get to them. Eventually I have so many tabs that my browser gets slow, or they don't fit (or my browser crashes and loses them all). I put them all in a bookmark folder and never look at it again.
13:04:19 <int-e> That sounds like a huge time-saver.
13:04:43 <oerjan> i recall bookmarking in that way back in the early 2000s
13:04:53 <oerjan> (except there were no tabs)
13:05:10 <int-e> shachaf: you can skip the step where you save the bookmarks
13:05:30 <ion> Excel 2000 was the shit. http://youtu.be/UO4DvM9KUyM
13:05:35 <shachaf> int-e: Hence "write-only".
13:05:41 <oerjan> when i quit university i got it all saved to a cd but i doubts it's still readable
13:05:47 <int-e> (I do. Very rarely that leads to a session of finding something interesting in the browser history.)
13:06:18 <oerjan> or persons, technically
13:06:25 <int-e> oerjan: even if the CD works, many of the links won't :)
13:06:25 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, I also do all browsing in "incognito mode".
13:06:32 -!- Patashu has joined.
13:06:38 <shachaf> Except for things that I want to save for later. Those become tabs in the regular browser window.
13:06:58 <int-e> I need to work on my paranoia :P
13:07:19 -!- shikhout has joined.
13:07:23 <shachaf> There's no paranoia benefit here. My traffic still gets logged.
13:07:36 <shachaf> I just don't like purple links, or something.
13:09:11 * oerjan hates sites that _thwart_ his ability to see whether links are visited.
13:09:20 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
13:09:28 <oerjan> either by styling, or by having stupid redirection.
13:09:49 <oerjan> i'm looking at you, blogspot
13:10:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:10:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
13:10:59 <oerjan> although i guess it's stupid of IE not to log both the pre- and post-redirection url
13:10:59 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
13:11:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
13:11:12 <oerjan> i dunno what other browsers do, of course
13:12:18 <oerjan> but an ideal browser should (1) log both post- and pre-redirection (2) have some kind of these-urls-are-equivalent database (3) refuse to use the same styling for visited and unvisited links
13:14:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
13:15:19 <int-e> a:visited { text-decoration: blink }
13:15:24 <oerjan> and i also wish reddit had a view setting that was simply "reverse posting order"
13:15:35 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
13:15:45 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
13:16:14 <oerjan> (iirc "new" browsing only shows the very last new posts)
13:16:25 <ion> The best web sites make links look identical to paragraph text.
13:16:50 <oerjan> the best web sites for hunting down and killing, i take
13:16:53 <int-e> oerjan: but then it would start out as "dinnareadit, dinnareadit, ..." instead of "reddit, reddit, reddit..."
13:18:22 <oerjan> oh and for reddit _comments_, i occasionally have wished that the slightly better new order there looked at the newest undeleted post in the subthread rather than its top ancestor
13:19:03 <oerjan> because my entire use case for "new" in reddit comments is to find new comments in old threads
13:20:58 <oerjan> mind you these days i somehow barely manage to keep up with r/haskell, much less the larger subreddits i used to follow.
13:26:27 <oerjan> argh anarchy golf won't load
13:27:13 <oerjan> which leads me to another feature i'd want: if the site doesn't reload, i'd like it to keep showing me the old version of the page
13:27:52 <oerjan> because like, the last thing i do before reloading that page was take note of the last thing i'd seen
13:28:24 <oerjan> well it worked second time
13:30:20 -!- copumpkin has joined.
13:32:53 <int-e> I never got into slashdot, and I didn't get into reddit. Instead I'm annoyed when people link to reddit instead of the original articles.
13:34:35 <oerjan> but without the reddit link, how will you know why the original article is bullshit!
13:34:49 <int-e> I'll use my own judgement?
13:35:13 <int-e> I know that's a dying concept.
13:35:57 <oerjan> (also sometimes the reddit link tells you relevant information without which you cannot make a sensible judgement.)
13:36:32 <oerjan> i guess, sometimes the reddit discussion is more interesting than the original link. i certainly don't always click on the latter.
13:37:12 -!- cluid has joined.
13:38:57 <int-e> https://xkcd.com/386/ I guess that's the reason why I avoid reddit.
13:39:17 <int-e> Or one reason, at least.
13:46:01 <oerjan> <oren> i have an alias in my bashrc of pulseaudiodieinafire <-- i note it's longer than what it expands to. might still be faster to type i guess
13:48:20 <oerjan> `addquote <coppro> at one point I'm pretty sure I fixed a sound problem with "apt-get remove pulseaudio" and it wasn't even installed
13:49:11 <HackEgo> 1224) <coppro> at one point I'm pretty sure I fixed a sound problem with "apt-get remove pulseaudio" and it wasn't even installed
13:49:38 -!- GeekDude has joined.
14:01:30 -!- boily has joined.
14:07:15 * boily does inarticulate chewbacca cries
14:08:23 <oren> oerjan : pulseaudiodieinafire is easy to type hth
14:08:50 <oerjan> especially when you're angry i assume
14:10:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
14:11:44 <oren> indeed it is hard to remeber space when youre angry
14:12:21 <oren> ohayou gozaimasu
14:13:49 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:15:11 <oerjan> now i'm wondering if that inspired the lolcat thing
14:16:00 <oerjan> boily: what an egregious smipeeling of celluloid tdnh
14:16:03 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
14:16:30 <oerjan> or possibly cthulhuoid
14:16:59 <boily> cluid is difficult to hello. let's check the official version...
14:17:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ello: not found
14:17:13 <int-e> what is the problem that pulseaudio is supposed to solve anyway...
14:17:40 <oren> it multiplexes audio between several apps
14:17:50 <boily> int-e: it's kinda like jack, but not?
14:18:12 <oren> and it is supported by ubuntu for whatever reason
14:18:35 <int-e> oerjan: mmm. http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/cd658f881a6a
14:18:35 <elliott> int-e: e.g., application-level volume contro
14:19:12 <int-e> ah, network audio is important. not.
14:19:16 <oerjan> boily: stealth sabotage by elliotts, i see
14:20:07 <elliott> changing output device on the fly
14:20:30 <oerjan> int-e: I WAS LOOKING UP THAT
14:20:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:20:47 <elliott> anyway I can't remember the last time I heard someone actually having problems with pulseaudio as opposed to just remembering having a bunch of problems with it, to be honest
14:21:14 -!- oerjan has set topic: Beware of int-e's evil twin oerjan | Beware of ricocheting jokes | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
14:21:37 <int-e> elliott: Well, I uninstalled the thing, so all my pulseaudio troubles are in the past, for now.
14:21:40 <HackEgo> Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
14:21:43 <cluid> did anyone fix the k-on fuck page
14:21:59 <cluid> i explained earlier
14:22:26 <int-e> elliott: But I do remember what the problem was: about a second of delay between stopping a movie and the audio stopping, in xine, and a matching delay on restarting the movie.
14:22:35 <oerjan> cluid: in that case, i missed it
14:23:25 <int-e> I use it for playing DVDs *shrugs8
14:23:46 <boily> mplayer masterrace!
14:23:48 <oerjan> nope, not finding your explanation
14:23:51 <int-e> otherwise it's usually mplayer these days.
14:25:06 -!- S1 has joined.
14:25:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
14:26:53 -!- mitchs has joined.
14:28:58 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:35:42 <oren> i have problems with pulseaudio still. mostly to do with too many volume controls.
14:37:35 <oren> why do you need an application volume control when the applications already provide one?
14:38:27 <elliott> and they shouldn't have to (why should every program implement its own redundant audio functionality?)
14:39:05 <fizzie> And sometimes the application volume control == the pulseaudio one, if it's a pulse-native thing.
14:39:25 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1).
14:39:37 <fizzie> Though I can't think of an example offhand.
14:42:21 <oren> well I use vlc to play everything, and when pulseaudio is installed there are then three volume controls
14:42:25 -!- atslash has joined.
14:44:15 <oren> and besides i have a physical volume conrol on my headphones
14:44:50 <elliott> this sounds like the worst reason to killall pulseaudio
14:45:09 <elliott> why do nerds love complaining so much
14:45:13 <oren> it is a usability problem
14:45:40 <oren> there should be only one volume control or failing in that two
14:45:55 <fizzie> You can remove the (useless) VLC volume control with "Tools/Customize interface", and you don't have to ever touch or even see the PA per-application volume control for VLC (if that's all you ever use).
14:46:11 <elliott> you were just advocating for application-specific volume control, i.e. volume control proliferation
14:46:46 <elliott> I mean I just don't think this state of affairs actually causes you any hardship but whatever. now I'm "enjoying" complaining about complaining
14:47:48 <oren> it is an annoyance... so i pkill -9 pulseaudio to reset its volume
14:48:14 <fizzie> Do you also rip off the power cable to shut down your computer?
14:49:19 <oren> i wish i could
14:49:31 <oren> on msdos you can
14:50:02 <oren> or just hit the power switch
14:50:32 <oren> there is no reason why these interfaces have to be so complicated
14:51:02 <fizzie> elliott: Re the cost function, it was too silly to explain, sorry.
14:52:20 <oren> anyway it is easier to kill pulseaudio than figure out which volume control is turned down or up.
14:53:29 <oren> kill first, ask questions later-- a good policy in life
14:53:33 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
14:54:23 <oerjan> fizzie: i assume it was a quantum cost
14:54:37 <oerjan> or as they say in italian, quanta costa
14:55:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
14:55:13 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
14:56:18 <fizzie> I feel like I'm missing a joke here.
14:57:29 <oerjan> (quanto costa is like one of the obvious tourist italian expressions)
14:57:38 <oren> cuanta costa means how much does this cost in spanish
14:58:45 <oerjan> cuánto cuesta says wiktionary
14:59:12 <int-e> oerjan: btw I hope you're not trying to imply that you're the good twin. you're evil, too :)
14:59:16 -!- nys has joined.
14:59:35 <int-e> I know I cannot read but why do I have to keep demonstrating it...
15:47:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
15:49:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:49:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
15:53:36 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
15:54:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:55:01 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
15:57:37 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
15:58:09 -!- drdanmaku has joined.
16:00:02 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
16:00:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
16:00:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INTERPUNCT CHICKEN).
16:03:24 <cluid> Fractran is so cool
16:03:39 <cluid> did you see the self interpreter that someone wrote?
16:03:43 <cluid> they made up a whole new notation for it
16:05:02 <oerjan> pretty sure i have once
16:07:18 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
16:07:31 <cluid> a kind of highr level fractran
16:09:39 -!- oren has quit (Quit: going to school).
16:09:57 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:09:58 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
16:27:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:33:57 <cluid> im impressed that someone managed to program that
16:34:06 <cluid> what other fractran programs are there people have written?
16:34:12 <cluid> I saw the prime sieve but i dont know how even that work
16:43:00 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit).
16:49:25 -!- cluid has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:30:47 -!- password2 has joined.
17:31:06 -!- oren has joined.
17:31:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
17:36:19 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
17:38:51 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
17:39:29 <oren> what character for right shift and left shift?
17:39:59 <oren> maybe unicode » and «
17:41:52 <oren> or maybe just one character, using negative numbers for the other shift
17:46:23 <oren> i'd prefer to keep everything ascii
17:46:30 <fizzie> I don't think « and » are very good, semantically. There's always ≪ and ≫ but possibly they aren't very good either.
17:46:34 <b_jonas> oren: no, ≪ and ≫ I believe
17:46:40 <fizzie> And they're more obscure as far as characters go.
17:46:53 <b_jonas> fizzie: doesn't Knuth use ≪ in volume 4?
17:47:45 <fizzie> For shift, you mean? I wouldn't know, I haven't read any of the Volume 4 stuff.
17:47:48 <coppro> I kind of like those characters
17:48:09 <fizzie> But they do already have a mathematical meaning. Still.
17:48:12 <HackEgo> U+226A MUCH LESS-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 89 aa UTF-16BE: 226a Decimal: ≪ \ ≪ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
17:48:22 <HackEgo> U+226B MUCH GREATER-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 89 ab UTF-16BE: 226b Decimal: ≫ \ ≫ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
17:48:24 <oren> hmm i think better to use one chracter for both shifts
17:48:43 <coppro> those are doublewidth, aren't they?
17:48:48 <coppro> and just not rendering right in my terminal
17:49:34 <coppro> or at any rate, I'm supposed to see two arrows, right?
17:49:34 <oren> how about capital K
17:49:39 <fizzie> I don't think they're in any official sense doublewidth.
17:49:52 <coppro> ok, yeah, it's just awful font
17:50:02 <HackEgo> U+00AB LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK \ UTF-8: c2 ab UTF-16BE: 00ab Decimal: « \ « \ Category: Pi (Punctuation, Initial quote) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
17:50:45 <coppro> alternative suggestion: 《 and 》
17:50:53 <coppro> (these suggestions are even worse. don't use them)
17:51:13 <HackEgo> U+22D8 VERY MUCH LESS-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 8b 98 UTF-16BE: 22d8 Decimal: ⋘ \ ⋘ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
17:51:23 <HackEgo> U+300A LEFT DOUBLE ANGLE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e3 80 8a UTF-16BE: 300a Decimal: 《 \ 《 \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
17:51:27 <coppro> interesting that *that* renders as doublewidth on my terminal
17:51:51 <coppro> I feel like ⋖ and ⋗ would be good bit-shift characters
17:51:51 <oren> it is used in chinese for some quotes i think
17:52:04 -!- password2 has joined.
17:53:23 <fizzie> ("LESS-THAN EQUAL TO OR GREATER-THAN")
17:54:11 <oren> I think i will just use K for now, and add super special unicode chars in another version (scrip8?)
17:54:29 <oren> the 8 stands for utf-8
17:55:05 <oren> whereas scrip7 will be limited to 7-bit ascii
17:56:38 <HackEgo> U+2278 NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR GREATER-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 89 b8 UTF-16BE: 2278 Decimal: ≸ \ ≸ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ Decomposition: 2276 0338
17:57:07 <coppro> oren: I'm waiting for scripEBDIC
17:58:01 <oren> i have another idea for a language with its own code page but i will wait for chrismas break to make it
17:58:19 <oren> it willuse all 256 bytes for printing chars
18:04:48 <oren> also-- an esoteric markup language
18:16:53 -!- nys has joined.
18:25:11 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:28:01 -!- CrazyM4n has joined.
18:36:17 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:39:10 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:40:24 <FireFly> fizzie: I've never gotten why those characters exist...
18:42:09 -!- atslash has joined.
18:42:17 <FireFly> 'those characters' being ⋚ and such
18:42:20 <FireFly> Perhaps just for consistency
18:42:41 <fizzie> Someone gave me a plausible explanation, but I've forgotten it already.
18:42:42 <shachaf> FireFly: "comparable", in a partial ordering?
18:43:15 <fizzie> I was thinking about that, but I think the plausible thing I heard of had something to do with why both ⋚ and ⋛ are needed.
18:44:24 <shachaf> If putting one thing above another is read as "or", I'd expect them to mean the same thing.
18:44:56 <shachaf> Then again, there's both ± and ∓
18:44:57 <fizzie> There's also things like ≨ which I guess is just < except it's more explicit about the ≠ part.
18:45:38 <fizzie> I've seen ± and ∓ used in some sort of a case where "a ± b ∓ c" means "a + b - c or a - b + c".
18:48:07 <fizzie> I guess you could extend that interpretation to make "a ⋚ b → b ⋛ a" say "a < b → b > a; a = b → b = a; a > b → b < a" on one line, but it doesn't seem very useful in general.
18:55:16 -!- MDream has joined.
18:55:36 <MDream> Guess I'll make the dolphin thread after lunch if someone else hasn't.
18:55:42 <MDream> https://lainchan.org/r/res/5364.html Also, this spam.
18:55:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude.
18:56:01 <MDude> I was kind fo hoping it'd be a crudly edited mod of Toontown.
18:56:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41376 * Orenwatson * (+2222) created page and chart of controls.
18:58:07 <oren> hay luk guise i made an awful thing!
19:01:31 <oren> you can use this instead of boring old TeX
19:01:50 <oren> and make your paper look likeit was made in 1948
19:02:02 <paul2520> is there an interpreter for it already?
19:02:11 <oren> no but i am working on it
19:02:22 <oren> it will make jpega
19:02:37 <oren> one for each page
19:03:23 <oren> you can make subscripts/superscripts by moving down a half-line like in the old days
19:03:35 <paul2520> do you have an example 1948 paper?
19:04:03 <oren> no but my father has some from 1957 in the soviet union
19:04:21 <oren> they have aleph written in by hand with a pen
19:05:06 <oren> anyway so i thought, what if i were to hand in an assignment wirtten like that?
19:05:29 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:05:32 <oren> they would be freaked, out
19:06:02 <shachaf> I would find ⋚ with a big slash through it useful.
19:06:12 <shachaf> How do you indicate that things aren't comparable?
19:06:38 <oren> not with a giant scribble
19:07:26 -!- shikhout has joined.
19:08:15 <oren> it appeard from wiki that you use //
19:09:37 <oren> but maybe that's because they got tired of scribbling
19:10:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:12:57 <HackEgo> U+22DA LESS-THAN EQUAL TO OR GREATER-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 8b 9a UTF-16BE: 22da Decimal: ⋚ \ ⋚ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ \ U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY \ UTF-8: cc b8 UTF-16BE: 0338 Decimal: ̸ \ ̸ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Com
19:14:10 <CrazyM4n> You've broken XChat by posting that
19:14:22 <CrazyM4n> I can now make multiple text selections somehow
19:15:03 <oren> so yeah there is the scribble character
19:17:07 <oren> Anyway i will eventually post an implementation of TTML
19:17:52 <CrazyM4n> Remember that fungeiod IDE I was making
19:18:12 <oren> awsome. scrolling is important
19:19:12 <oren> next you should make the cursor able to move in any direction. e.g. so that you can write 'a' and then the cursor will be below it
19:19:27 <oren> or behind it or above it
19:19:51 <CrazyM4n> is if you write, < for example
19:20:31 <CrazyM4n> The cursor will go to the left
19:21:27 <CrazyM4n> For now I'm coding it with respect to my own fungeoid
19:22:18 <CrazyM4n> I could possibly make this my first legit program
19:22:41 <oren> awsome, legit.
19:22:58 <oren> i usually use svn can't help you there
19:23:05 <oren> git is confusing as hell
19:23:14 <CrazyM4n> I usually use the GUI application on windows :/
19:23:44 <CrazyM4n> I know how to use gists.... I guess I'll just do that, hah
19:24:20 <CrazyM4n> https://gist.github.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310
19:24:36 <CrazyM4n> It's not much yet, but it's getting there
19:26:42 <oren> hmm. if it helps i can post my ncurses spreadsheet program
19:27:00 <oren> it is very bad still becuase i stopped working on it
19:27:16 <CrazyM4n> No, I've wanted to learn ncurses for a long time
19:27:24 <CrazyM4n> This is a good learning experience
19:27:37 <CrazyM4n> Well, I would look at it if you posted it though
19:30:11 <oren> http://pastebin.com/cN3e35J9 this is (iirc) the only file in it that uses ncurses
19:30:44 <oren> it shows how to get control and alt characters
19:31:21 <oren> basically control characters are c-'@' and alt is char 27 followed by the character
19:31:24 <CrazyM4n> So, uh, I broke something on a giant scale
19:32:00 <CrazyM4n> I don't even know, try running the script
19:33:23 <oren> duuude no tabs in python... bad!
19:34:13 <oren> change your tabs into spaces
19:35:33 <oren> actually the tabs aren't even being pasted when i copy it
19:36:09 <CrazyM4n> I'll change them to spaces, but I personally have no opinion on the matter
19:36:20 <CrazyM4n> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310/raw/5f0759d39f34749afcd77ffdfe6d986d11ae80bf/ide.py
19:37:03 <CrazyM4n> What have I done http://i.imgur.com/U9q1zA6.png
19:38:34 <oren> the cursor doesn't move when i type but other than that seems ok
19:38:57 <oren> except when i move cursor off scrren it does not scroll
19:39:39 <oren> it instead throws an exception
19:39:41 <MDude> Wait why did I say all that in the wrong channel.
19:39:46 <CrazyM4n> Really? For me it does a TON of other stuff
19:41:41 <CrazyM4n> The cursor goes in the correct direction, but when I type, it goes to a spot as if all of my cursor movements were rotated
19:44:58 <oren> it doesn't do taht for me
19:45:07 <CrazyM4n> If I swap the coordinates in the addch call, it works, but if it doesn't do that for you...
19:45:29 <oren> xfce4-terminal
19:46:15 <oren> i dunno, all the coords in ncurses are y,x.
19:46:26 <CrazyM4n> I'm on lubuntu and it happens to me under both terminator and lxterm
19:46:44 <CrazyM4n> Yeah, but the coords come straight out of getyx
19:47:06 <oren> that is the coords are y,x in getyx too
19:49:46 <paul2520> I would probably be using it right now, if I weren't using Windows
19:50:10 <paul2520> "++" from my experience is slang for "is awesome"
19:50:17 <paul2520> kinda based on things like C++
19:50:31 <oren> C++ = pathetic, bloated C.
19:50:49 <CrazyM4n> Notepad++ = pathetic, bloated notepad?
19:51:03 <oren> but C++ should not be used in the same purpose as C
19:52:00 <myname> all c++ programmers should just write rust
19:53:00 <oren> note that earlier versions of C++ were decent. it only got bad recently
19:53:58 <CrazyM4n> Can I make the cursor not move when I call addstr?
19:54:13 <oren> yes. use noecho
19:54:26 <myname> CrazyM4n: do you know termbox?
19:55:41 <oren> uh, use mvprint?
19:55:46 <myname> one thing i find interesting about it is the easyness of porting
19:56:00 <Sgeo> It's... weird seeing a commercial for lego minecraft
19:56:02 <oren> yeah, mvaddstr should work
19:56:07 <Sgeo> A game I saw in development
19:56:24 <oren> and get chars with mvgetch
19:56:35 <Sgeo> (Well, I saw it before The End was added, and the commercial referenced The End)
19:57:06 <myname> minecraft people should grow some guts and go play dwarf fortress
19:57:19 <oren> +1 dorfortress
19:57:37 <CrazyM4n> addch uses x, y coordinates instead of y, x
19:58:10 <oren> wtf??? why python has to mess that up?
19:58:18 <oren> it isn't like that in C
19:58:24 <myname> i really love terminal applications, but ncurses is a pain in the ass to write imo
19:58:33 <oren> not in C it isnt
19:58:42 <CrazyM4n> I just got rid of the coord arguments
19:58:47 <CrazyM4n> It's listed as y, x in the docs
19:59:06 <CrazyM4n> So I just am letting it put the char at the cursor (which is what I want, anyway)
19:59:33 <myname> CrazyM4n: what are you going to write?
20:00:20 <oren> honestly i love python but some of its libraries are messed up
20:00:33 <CrazyM4n> Just kidding, it doesn't work now
20:00:41 <CrazyM4n> Now, it literally just doesn't do anything
20:02:02 <FireFly> myname: there are alternatives to ncurses though
20:02:12 <myname> termbox is the one i know
20:02:21 <FireFly> libtickit is the one I know of
20:03:00 <oren> i have done stuff by outputting ansi sequences
20:03:09 <oren> that is a viable alternative
20:03:22 <FireFly> That is essentially what libtickit abstracts
20:03:40 <oren> and all these libraries
20:03:50 <myname> okay, termbox cannot handle mouse
20:03:53 <FireFly> Well, most of them seem to not pare ansi sequences sanely
20:04:01 <myname> it's not that much of a drawback imho
20:04:31 <oren> most terminals you mean?
20:04:43 <FireFly> e.g. vim doesn't--it barfs if you feed it valid escape sequences that it just happens to not be familiar with (yet follows the grammar of escape sequences defined by ECMA-35
20:05:21 <FireFly> oren: no, I mostly mean the application side of things, though I guess both are problematic
20:05:24 <oren> why would an editor need to parse them?
20:06:04 <oren> i am talking about stuff like printf("\33[45m");
20:06:09 <FireFly> Because special keystrokes such as ctrl+enter, delete, F1 and stuff are encoded an escape sequecnes?
20:06:10 <myname> tickit doesn't look any smaller than ncurses
20:06:13 <Sgeo> Is Rust a good language for implementing esolangs?
20:06:24 <Sgeo> s/is/will it be/
20:06:42 <myname> Sgeo: i don't see why it wouldn't
20:06:58 <myname> you will have pattern matching
20:07:18 <oren> oh i see. yeah i have also done that. you can parse them yourself with some ad-hoc code
20:07:28 <oren> whichever ones you need
20:08:09 <CrazyM4n> Well, I found the python ncurses source
20:08:39 <FireFly> I'd prefer if vim said something like "unsupported escape sequence" or just silently ignored it, rather than treating it as "Esc" "[" "35" "u" or whatever, causing all sorts of annoyingness
20:09:22 <oren> hmm my editor appears to ignore anything weird
20:11:26 <oren> maybe TTML should support the upper control characters (C1)?
20:12:00 <CrazyM4n> Of the python module is just interfacing with _curses, which is a .so file
20:12:31 <oren> so the bugs are probably easily fixable
20:13:08 <oren> e.g. someone borked the argument order in the interface
20:13:46 <CrazyM4n> the curses module doesn't even have the interface
20:14:14 <CrazyM4n> The whole interface is a couple of initialized variables and an import _curses
20:14:38 <oren> uh... ok i have no idea how that works
20:15:01 <oren> i use C or pyhton i've never used both in one program
20:15:42 <oren> where did the .so come from?
20:16:23 <CrazyM4n> It's most likely a compiled C thingy
20:18:23 <CrazyM4n> Welp, I guess it's safe to say that it's probably time to reinstall python unless someone wants to give me their _curses.cpython-34m-x86_64-linux-gnu.so file
20:19:24 <CrazyM4n> http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Modules/_cursesmodule.c btw
20:22:39 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
20:24:57 -!- CakeMeat has joined.
20:27:41 -!- GeekDude has joined.
20:27:52 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host).
20:27:52 -!- GeekDude has joined.
20:28:08 <CrazyM4n> Huh, apparently the C code in _cursesmodule.c is all correct
20:28:12 <CrazyM4n> Where could the error be then?
20:28:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41377&oldid=41376 * Orenwatson * (+140)
20:36:14 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
20:38:56 <CrazyM4n> I found out that my python install was probably broken
20:39:33 <CakeMeat> Also ive had the same problem before
20:39:58 <CakeMeat> One of the files was corrupted so idk if thats fixed or not
20:42:59 -!- b_jonas has joined.
20:54:45 <CrazyM4n> All I need is someone to run https://gist.githubusercontent.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310/raw/cb4de1cb60ddd68493a8f2354c5e1a33ccd6528c/ide.py and tell me what it does for them
20:57:42 <oren> i'll do it hold on 1 sec
20:58:11 <paul2520> yeah, I can do it, oo. once I install python on this computer...
20:58:28 <CrazyM4n> You have to push an arrow key to get output
20:59:48 <oren> it goes to the space i want, then when i write a char it goes back to the position 4,3.
21:00:02 <oren> then when i move again it goes back where i was
21:01:00 <oren> line 4, column 2
21:01:09 <oren> (1 based index)
21:02:01 <CrazyM4n> But I might be forced to use C
21:02:17 <myname> write i c, write in c, write in c, oh write in c, don't even mention cobol, write in c
21:02:35 <oren> oh come on, C is classic. C is an ever-faithful servant
21:02:51 <oren> who does exactly as she's told
21:02:52 <CrazyM4n> I just need to test my ncurses
21:02:54 <paul2520> myname: YES. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4YRPdRXKFs
21:04:35 -!- S1 has joined.
21:04:47 <oren> whereas C++ is a fat man in meido-fuku.
21:04:58 <oren> it just isn't the same
21:05:22 <CrazyM4n> OK, the C implementation works
21:05:36 <CrazyM4n> so... I guess python curses is absolutely broken
21:10:43 <CrazyM4n> http://bugs.python.org/issue21088 praise the lords it's fixed
21:11:06 <CrazyM4n> oren: what is the output of python -v
21:12:32 <CrazyM4n> That makes sense, this bug only affects 3.4.0
21:12:50 <oren> python 3 sucks
21:12:59 <myname> that language where you can choose between buggy and deprecated
21:13:07 <oren> python 2 forever
21:13:33 <oren> i and b tags are deprecated too, so what?
21:14:02 <CrazyM4n> I just chose python because it's easier to install on windows than ruby
21:14:15 <myname> i like ruby as a language way more than python
21:14:25 <myname> but the libraries around it are horrible
21:14:29 <CrazyM4n> Me too, shame it's so much slower
21:14:39 <oren> ruby is cool but can't handle unicode worth a damn and its slow
21:14:42 <CrazyM4n> The libraries are rather good imho, they just don't work on windows
21:15:47 <myname> they just don't work on 1.9+
21:15:57 <myname> at least not after the next update
21:16:05 <oren> C90 will be good to us forever
21:16:08 <myname> because hey, fuck api stability
21:17:12 <oren> yeah. like i'mma change scrip7 so all the literals are different. fuck stability, safety and shit.
21:17:31 <oren> that is ok for an esolang but srsly Ruby?
21:17:56 <CrazyM4n> Ruby is just the crappy sequel to Perl
21:18:01 <CrazyM4n> But I love both of those languages
21:18:15 <myname> ruby is 110% syntax sugar
21:18:15 <oren> Perl 6 is the crappy sequel to Perl
21:18:42 <oren> because it literally will never take off
21:19:20 <CrazyM4n> We already have old perl and it's good enough :P
21:19:48 <oren> exactly. my dad has cgi scripts that he wrote in 1995 and still work
21:20:05 <oren> why do we need any of this new crap?
21:20:08 <myname> fun fact, perl will turn 27 in 12 days
21:20:48 <myname> that's the only thing i like about it
21:20:55 <paul2520> whoa. you have the same birthday as Perl?
21:21:00 <CrazyM4n> You were born on the day Perl was born?
21:21:18 <CrazyM4n> Are you by any chance a dollar sign and a bunch of random garbage characters?
21:22:10 <CrazyM4n> I have to learn perl. I love it for what it does and how well it works and it's codegolfability, but I don't actually know it
21:22:27 <myname> you could also learn golfscript
21:22:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).
21:22:50 <CrazyM4n> But golfscript is written in ruby *shudder*
21:22:50 <oren> useing a language designed for golfing is cheating imo
21:23:40 <oren> perl was designed to put sed awk and tcl in one language
21:23:56 <paul2520> CrazyM4n: if you're still looking for someone to run that script, I may be able to help now. Though it looks like oren was able to help you
21:24:09 <oren> J was designed to be APL in ascii
21:24:36 <myname> oren: it is perfect for golfing, though
21:24:59 <CrazyM4n> paul2520: http://bugs.python.org/issue21088
21:26:53 <oren> yeah but it wasn't designed explicitly for brevity it just so happens that metafunctions make things short
21:29:16 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:31:21 -!- CrazyM4n has joined.
21:31:41 <oren> howd you manage it
21:31:55 <CrazyM4n> had to install pyenv and install python 3.4.2
21:32:08 <CrazyM4n> it took all day to fix something python broke
21:38:51 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:41:00 -!- HackEgo has joined.
21:52:36 <CrazyM4n> Okay, scrolling actually works now
21:54:01 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
21:58:04 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:58:42 <oren> howd you manage it
22:05:29 <oren> i gave up trying to implement ttml in C for now, and i'm writing a translator into html.
22:05:55 <oren> using lots of absolutely positioned divs.
22:07:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
22:22:11 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/TnfNcXj.gifv
22:22:41 <CrazyM4n> The only glitch I found was writing off screen doesn't actually add the characters, just moves your cursor
22:27:06 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:31:23 -!- atslash has joined.
22:31:45 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit).
22:34:26 <FreeFull> Was it someone in here who linked to http://retroforth.org/docs/The_Ngaro_Virtual_Machine.html ?
22:34:52 <FreeFull> I don't remember who I interacted with to find it >_<
22:37:14 <FreeFull> Might have been a different network
22:51:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41378&oldid=41377 * Orenwatson * (-54) too hard to implement. will think of something else.
22:52:22 <CrazyM4n> Saving/loading files is almost done
22:52:34 <CakeMeat> Why does it look like random garbage >
22:52:41 <CrazyM4n> Because I was hitting random keys :P
22:53:28 <CakeMeat> And Did you fix your python 3 troubles?
22:53:38 <CrazyM4n> Yeah, I had to install python 3.4.2 but it works well now
22:54:24 <CakeMeat> Why didnt the python support channel help you?
22:54:52 <CrazyM4n> Someone told me to switch to a different framework
22:55:45 <CrazyM4n> And I haven't used C in so long, I'd have to relearn it
22:56:31 <CrazyM4n> Doesn't make it less powerful, and with PyPy if I bother to install it I can get speed comparable to C
22:57:34 <CrazyM4n> Well, I am using ncurses to draw the screen
22:57:44 <CrazyM4n> Which comes with python on linux
22:57:53 <CrazyM4n> (It won't work on windows, I just realized)
22:58:10 <CrazyM4n> https://gist.github.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310
22:58:20 <CrazyM4n> There are replacements for curses on windows
22:58:30 <CrazyM4n> I'd just have to go through and change a little bit of stuff
22:59:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:59:31 <CakeMeat> What version of windows do you use
23:01:12 <CakeMeat> Ive had bugs with lubuntu. did they fix any?
23:01:27 <CrazyM4n> I haven't run into too many troubles
23:04:18 <CakeMeat> Installed half way and terminated Process
23:04:50 <CakeMeat> Like if something wont install properly i wont really use it.
23:05:48 <CrazyM4n> Decided I hated unity, installed xubuntu-desktop
23:05:58 <CrazyM4n> Decided I hated xubuntu-desktop, installed lubuntu-desktop
23:06:14 <myname> straight to tiling wms :p
23:06:39 <CakeMeat> Ive never liked ubuntu like products/ubuntu itself
23:07:46 <myname> i am using herbstluft wm
23:08:23 <CrazyM4n> I don't like ubuntu much but I'm most used to it
23:08:30 <CrazyM4n> I wanted to switch to arch but I haven't bothered
23:11:05 <CakeMeat> Arch linux with Antergos alt. But i should probably switch
23:14:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services).
23:14:52 -!- Patashu_ has joined.
23:17:35 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1).
23:20:15 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:22:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:27:41 <oren> finished: http://pastebin.com/0kifNgpd
23:28:07 <oren> well kind of. i'll make the greek and cyrillic escapes later
23:29:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41379&oldid=41378 * Orenwatson * (+64) add link to partial implementation
23:30:10 <oren> it is an implementation of my teletype markup language
23:30:32 <oren> you can use actual ascii escapes or ^ codes
23:30:55 <oren> it will translate to an html page
23:31:44 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:32:53 <oren> it uses one div for every character i will fix that later
23:33:25 <oren> [-|] there, a maze
23:34:13 <oren> the idea is that the result will look like a math paper from the 1950's
23:35:01 <CakeMeat> A math paper from the 1950's how do you know what that looks like
23:35:26 <oren> my father has a bunch from his friends who escaped from the USSR
23:36:40 <oren> also my father's thesis looks similar; he wrote it on a selectric.
23:36:52 <oren> but that was later obviously
23:37:42 <oren> anyway it mimics the effect of a paper teletype
23:38:09 <oren> with some additions such as limited color
23:38:24 <elliott> you can download papers online y'know :p
23:39:46 <paul2520> ...but what about downloading models for 3D printing a car?
23:40:02 <zzo38> Next time you can make one to translate into ANSI instead of HTML, too
23:40:17 <oren> anyway i have seen the original of my father's thesis "pseudocompact metacompact spaces are compact" and that inspired this
23:41:07 <oren> i do not understand the paper at all obviously
23:42:37 <oren> zzo38: yeah i will figure that out. most terminal programs don't let you go down half a line so i don't think everyhting can be made to work
23:43:40 <oren> going down half a line was common method to make sub/superscripts
23:44:09 <elliott> that's a great thesis title
23:44:51 <oren> it is hilarious because i asked him what metacompact is and he couldn't remember.
23:44:59 <oren> i know what compact is
23:45:01 <fizzie> These days it'd have a pithy saying in front, separated by dash.
23:45:49 <fizzie> Wikipedia's [[Metacompact space]] cites "Pseudocompact metacompact spaces are compact".
23:46:25 <elliott> Bananas in Space(s) (That Are Compact): Pseudocompact metacompact spaces are compact
23:46:27 <fizzie> One wonders if whoever added the citation read more than the title, since it's all there.
23:46:59 <oren> i know... you don't even really need an abstract
23:47:27 <zzo38> I have played Dungeons&Dragons game now I am writing recording and then you can read it please
23:48:02 <zzo38> I found the six "orden" books.
23:52:30 <fizzie> "In 1950, Arens and Dugundji [1] defined metacompact spaces and showed (A) countably compact metacompact spaces are compact. It was known by then that paracompact spaces are normal and that normal pseudocompact spaces are countably compact. Since paracompact spaces are metacompact, (A) also showed (B) pseudocompact paracompact spaces are compact."
23:52:35 <fizzie> I didn't understand any of it, but reading it made the word "compact" itself sound meaningless too.
23:53:09 <oren> it makes it sound like compact is not even an english word...
23:53:16 <oren> like some sort of mantra
23:53:30 <CrazyM4n> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation
23:58:11 <oren> but yeah it turns out you can stick any latin/greek prefix onto compact and make a new class of topological space
23:59:29 -!- oren has quit (Quit: dinnertime).