00:00:42 <int-e> oerjan: uh-oh. yesterday there was one open ticket for ghc-7.10, today there are two...
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00:24:05 <boily> is translation a functor?
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01:00:36 <oerjan> int-e: now if they could fix the open "ticket" for the ghc trac itself. (apparently it's having problems with bots.)
01:01:09 <oerjan> oops and one is in the Typeable solver
01:06:54 <int-e> oerjan: Right, SPJ reopened it, but I haven't tried to understand his objection. (I thought one of the key points of making typeable internal is that the solver can be very relaxed about overlaps (just as with IncoherentInstances) because the produced typeable witnesses will always end up the same regardless...
01:07:22 <int-e> fungot: gimme a closing parenthesis, please?
01:07:23 <fungot> int-e: but i really need to find a decent prolog tutorial by which you may create a new one that does proper fnord
01:07:34 <fungot> int-e: sleeping is the cousin of death
01:07:43 <int-e> fungot: you're such a disappointment sometimes
01:07:44 <fungot> int-e: some colleagues of mine have done a lot and is southern. he is going to be a fnord
01:09:34 <boily> fungot: could you close-paren me please?
01:09:34 <fungot> boily: i use sxml to turn darcs changelogs into debian ones. heheh.'
01:09:47 <boily> fungot: what? that's pure evil!
01:09:48 <fungot> boily: what do the french know? they don't treat macros in sicp? i didn't copy the sp?)
01:10:09 <boily> fungot: thanks for the belated parenthesis. and yes, the French don't know about that.
01:10:10 <fungot> boily: how are clients any different from running lisp on the 370/ 158 stored its global environment in a continuation
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01:15:40 <FireFly> fungot: what's the current price on right-parentheses?
01:15:40 <fungot> FireFly: i'll quote from the stalin directory:
01:15:41 <boily> int-e: it's not luck, it's a deep spiritual connection with the 'got. we understand each other.
01:16:02 <boily> fungot: this may be a little bit outdated. don't you have anything more modern?
01:16:03 <fungot> boily: it will. you'll need to go bang head against wall ensued. they got it in...
01:16:19 <fungot> boily: at the same pace that i'm explaining, it should be
01:16:26 <boily> fungot: it should be?
01:16:27 <fungot> boily: you can't, i don't actually know what you meant by it
01:16:38 <boily> fungot: oh well...
01:16:38 <fungot> boily: once i saw the 1991 demo...
01:16:43 <FireFly> fungot: sometimes I wish you would just get to the point
01:16:43 <fungot> FireFly: a melon costs 50 cent coin and turned it into hardware ( which was on deviantart frontpage. :p
01:17:05 <FireFly> Well that's the price for a melon, at least
01:17:13 <int-e> boily: Ok, you make it sound quite unlucky actually.
01:17:22 <boily> breaking news! DA featuring 50¢ melons!
01:17:33 <fungot> oerjan: forget a subject there, it doesn't work. i think i can
01:17:37 <int-e> Douglas Adams? Isn't he dead?
01:17:56 <boily> int-e: technique, not luck.
01:17:57 <fungot> FireFly: i meant l:tu or winxp? ;p it might make a good demo with an engine like that than a lame snail?" it might improve the srfi process
01:17:58 <fungot> oerjan: i am sorry for this absurdity i'm not enough of an innovation to be worthy of creating a failure object invoke the debugger)
01:18:20 <oerjan> fungot: ok i guess you're more into logic
01:18:20 <fungot> oerjan: and one playfield turned into a popularity argument. what do you mean with " limited"? come on. i just added six stack rotation instructions.
01:18:35 <int-e> Desoxyribonucleic acid?
01:19:16 <FireFly> fungot: I don't think befunge has any stack rotation instructions though
01:19:23 <fungot> FireFly: if we have a pair whose cdr is a list, and calls f-h again. this is the esoterics chat room yes?
01:19:38 <FireFly> fungot: yes, that is correct
01:19:38 <fungot> FireFly: to your first world implicitly passed around.
01:19:40 <int-e> fungot: yes it is. you're helping.
01:19:40 <fungot> int-e: i'll try this one. though perhaps it isn't trustworthy. fnord/ artist/ fnord too up to last year, on a large battle to catch by this war.
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01:21:06 <boily> I wonder what would happen if fungot started mentioning chickens...
01:21:07 <fungot> boily: a friend of mine has the assumption that it isn't even trying to divide by zero fix this" the sentence would not lose any meaning if you'd use eval.
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01:21:45 <FireFly> fungot: what did you do to those poor esotericans?
01:21:46 <fungot> FireFly: althrought many powerful people where masons, i don't think " genius" is well-defined in this regard. it's counter-intuitive and you can't satisfy them all at once?
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01:26:21 <int-e> fungot: what about woodcraft?
01:26:21 <fungot> int-e: are you a fnord?) but i'm not sure my explanations are a bit wonky" crt back, i think
01:26:35 <int-e> fungot: what about witchcraft?
01:26:36 <fungot> int-e: i found this paper helpfull: fnord/ courses/ scheme/ slime48/. also, closing parens on same line
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01:37:30 <fungot> FireFly: not really, kuribas. it has a bunch of smaller objects. for example, how would it know what one
01:38:00 <FireFly> fungot: how would it, though?
01:38:00 <fungot> FireFly: it lets you clean up extant but useless data that might be nice if you enumerated the differences
01:39:10 <int-e> fungot's moments of clarity have me worried
01:39:10 <fungot> int-e: can somebody else come into this, and once you make eval look up its proper name.
01:51:33 <orin> WHY DOES THE INSERT KEY EXST
01:53:35 <orin> it's like some madman was like, yknow what i need? A key that can be pressed accidentally because it's next to right arrow, and makes your new writing overwrite your old writing character by character
01:55:12 <orin> maybe it was useful when people used fixed-length fields in everything?
01:57:27 <orin> fungot: why does the insert key exist?
01:57:28 <fungot> orin: it relies on gauche a lot? :p. ugh i need to call that cleanup procedure also after the ordinary procedure, ( lambda ( x)
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03:37:16 <orin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXauSxw86Pw
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07:56:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Huh?++]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42214&oldid=42212 * Ais523 * (+7) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vriskanon|Vriskanon]] ([[User talk:Vriskanon|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Kfriede|Kfriede]]
07:57:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Huh?]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42215&oldid=42211 * Ais523 * (+2) no unmarked links to userspace, please
07:57:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Huh?]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42216&oldid=42215 * Ais523 * (+0) caps
07:57:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hashes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42217&oldid=42209 * Ais523 * (-12) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vriskanon|Vriskanon]] ([[User talk:Vriskanon|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:93.115.84.195|93.115.84.195]]
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07:59:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42218&oldid=42206 * Ais523 * (+8) /* Tutorial */ don't mix meta-content with content, no unmarked links to userspace
07:59:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Secretary]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42219&oldid=42207 * Ais523 * (-8) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vriskanon|Vriskanon]] ([[User talk:Vriskanon|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Oerjan|Oerjan]]
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08:02:58 <izabera> you may find this interesting
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08:05:17 <izabera> conclusion: don't rely on sed being smart enough to optimize 2p -> 2{p;q} and don't rely on sed being smart enough to produce the correct output on binary files
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08:08:06 <ais523> I wouldn't expect sed to optimize
08:10:13 <izabera> apparently a lot of people are expecting it to be equally efficient...
08:10:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Vriskanon]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42220 * Ais523 * (+2199) warning/note about links to userspace
08:13:12 <ais523> hmm, I wonder when was the last time I did my Esolang adminning duties in a way other than spam clearup
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08:17:02 <int-e> Yay, ghc-7.10.1 finally made it.
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08:19:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42221&oldid=42218 * Ais523 * (-30) /* Examples */ reformat signed meta-note to fit mainspace formatting guidelines (meta formatting, mark links to userspace)
08:35:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42222&oldid=36133 * Vriskanon * (+468) /* Your Message/Changes */ new section
08:35:59 <ais523> a good enough reply, at least
08:36:08 <ais523> also I made the huge mistake of clicking on the diff
08:36:26 <ais523> meaning that I entirely missed the Orange Bar of Doom, which I probably haven't seen for over a year now?
08:36:33 <ais523> ever since Wikipedia got rid of it
08:37:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42223&oldid=42201 * Vriskanon * (+9)
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09:19:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42224&oldid=42203 * Vriskanon * (-88) /* Vriskanon */
09:43:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42225&oldid=42184 * 160.85.232.204 * (-86) /* Examples */
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10:10:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42226&oldid=42221 * Vriskanon * (+2883) External links for Homestuck and Mesons. Changed introductiknMinor edits elsewhere. The 'Conditions' tutorial section (incomplete) and the 'Negative Concepts' tutorial section.
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10:59:16 <oerjan> <orin> WHY DOES THE INSERT KEY EXST <-- i use it occasionally, although i have some trouble remembering where it is on my new laptop keyboard. of course in vim the R command is easier.
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11:05:04 <oerjan> <orin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXauSxw86Pw <-- what did i just watch
11:05:38 <cpressey> The question is not why the insert key exists. The question is why insert mode still exists
11:06:26 <cpressey> oerjan: I need to look at your monad which I assume is in the logs somewhere but I am too tired to hunt
11:08:20 <oerjan> @let dbind [x] f = f x; dbind l f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l' | otherwise = [] where l' = map f l
11:08:31 <oerjan> @check \x f g -> (((x::[Int]) `dbind` f :: [Int]) `dbind` g :: [Int]) == x `dbind` \t -> f t `dbind` g
11:09:12 <oerjan> and that was checking the third monad laws
11:09:54 <oerjan> the idea is basically "make the result [] unless laws force you not to"
11:10:39 <cpressey> "Counterexamples in Computation"
11:12:26 <cpressey> "ShrugSQL": when there are so many ad-hoc abstraction layers between you and your data you have no idea whether it counts as "NoSQL" or not
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11:13:33 <oerjan> the reason it only works for finite lists is that otherwise the check for whether you can return [] may never terminate.
11:14:16 <cpressey> does never-terminating violate the monad laws?
11:14:21 <cpressey> maybe i shouldn't ask such questions
11:15:33 <oerjan> it makes it hard to fulfil the x >>= return = x law for an infinite list x
11:15:52 <oerjan> especially if the return is somehow obfuscated
11:16:18 <cpressey> yeah that question was a bit troll-y tbh
11:16:45 <cpressey> a better question would be: do monads make sense in (say) a total functional programming regime? i don't see why they wouldn't
11:17:17 <oerjan> quite likely they make even _more_ sense, in haskell frequently the laws don't hold exactly once you have nontermination
11:18:21 <oerjan> i understand many total languages define a monad for non-terminating computations
11:19:05 <oerjan> so that they can still express turing-complete computations
11:20:01 <oerjan> codata Rec a = Now a | Later (Rec a)
11:20:38 <oerjan> or something equivalent
11:22:17 * oerjan gives cpressey a repsil drop
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11:32:21 <oerjan> <int-e> Yay, ghc-7.10.1 finally made it. <-- brace for confused stackoverflow questions...
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11:34:34 <cpressey> seriously though. all the effort we're putting into developing total functional programming could be directed towards teaching kids to code so they can build things with love and change the world.
11:35:27 <oerjan> i think you just tied my brain into a meta-ironic knot
11:36:37 <cpressey> i'm sorry. finding it very hard not to get bitter, as i age. not unlike cheese, i suppose
11:40:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mmmm()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42227&oldid=41367 * SuperJedi224 * (+9)
11:40:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42228&oldid=41204 * SuperJedi224 * (+258)
11:40:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42229&oldid=42228 * SuperJedi224 * (+4)
11:45:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daft Punk]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42231 * Vriskanon * (+298) Created page with "{{stub}} ''Daft Punk is still under production. This page will be updated when the code is fully designed.'' - ~~~~ Daft is an [[Esoteric Programming Language]] currentl..."
11:45:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daft Punk]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42232&oldid=42231 * Vriskanon * (-4)
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11:47:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42233&oldid=42208 * Vriskanon * (+16) /* D */ Added Daft Punk
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11:48:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daft Punk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42234&oldid=42232 * Vriskanon * (+31)
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11:57:27 <cpressey> i wonder how much of modern software development is just *finding* the line of code to change
11:59:05 <b_jonas> cpressey: that depends on whether you write the code well organized in first place
11:59:19 <b_jonas> if you write good code, then yes, you just have to find where to change
12:00:05 <b_jonas> if not, you have to restructure everything and change ten copies of what should have been refactored to the same function in first place, and then hunt down memory corruption bugs that didn't use to crash the program so frequently before this incidental change.
12:00:28 <cpressey> "how much of modern software development" depends on nothing except the set of all modern software development
12:04:47 <cpressey> "how quickly and completely can you familiarize yourself with a vast territory?" <-- possible interview question
12:07:37 <cpressey> and then there's the spec, or lack thereof. "story: currently we do X when Z, make it Y when Z instead". four hours later: no, we actually already Y when Z
12:07:57 <cpressey> maybe those bdd people have a point
12:16:16 <oerjan> this territory talk is nonsense, i will have nunavut
12:18:58 <oerjan> i'm sure they do, but what does body dysmorphic disorder have to do with programming
12:19:06 <lambdabot> I think so, Brain, but isn't that why they invented tube socks?
12:19:30 <Jafet> I thought you disapproved of these puns but now you look so inuit.
12:20:01 <oerjan> you cannot have been paying proper attention
12:30:12 <cpressey> yukon count me out of this silly game
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12:40:17 <b_jonas> dysmorphic disorder? what's that?
12:42:41 <oerjan> @google dysmorphic disorder
12:42:43 <lambdabot> http://www.adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/other-related-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder-bdd
12:42:43 <lambdabot> Title: Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) | Anxiety and Depression Association of Americ...
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12:59:26 <orin> oerjan: you watched some cute Chinese girls singing and dancing, obviously.
13:01:44 <oerjan> well that much was obvious.
13:02:41 <orin> well that's all I know about it
13:14:30 <orin> Ok, I looked up the group on zh.wikipedia. Apparently they were 5 years old and the video is from 2006 (explaining the quality)
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13:15:11 <mroman> Firebase is surprisingly expensive
13:15:37 <mroman> I can get a dedicated high performance server for that kind of money
13:15:53 <mroman> with unlimited traffic and TB of storage
13:16:26 <orin> recently the same group got together and recordied it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvGGpOhIjG8
13:25:13 <orin> Unfortunately that means i have it stuck in my head again
13:39:53 <cpressey> i don't know what this is but i think i'll pass
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13:40:35 <oerjan> dammit, spj's mails are almost unreadable in the pipermail archives
13:41:15 <oerjan> (the conversion to text doesn't preserve whatever quoting scheme he's using
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13:59:08 <int-e> oerjan: spj's emails are unreadable in my mail client, too :P
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14:24:21 <cpressey> ok, if i don't leave now, i'm going to start saying things i will probably regret later
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14:44:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mmmm()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42235&oldid=42227 * Esowiki201529A * (+13) Undo
14:50:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Calculator fuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42236&oldid=41653 * Esowiki201529A * (+24)
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16:11:03 <orin> shikin, get a server and a screen session
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17:26:26 <int-e> Fun, hanami season in full swing... I love the fact that there are forecasts. http://www.jnto.go.jp/sakura/eng/index.php
17:26:44 <int-e> Or sakura, hanami is the celebration?
17:38:35 <orin> hanami just literally says "flower viewing"
17:38:51 <orin> sakura means the cherry blossoms
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18:29:13 <Taneb> Just heard on the news "There is no girl"
18:29:28 <Taneb> That sounds probably significant on quite a terrifying level
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18:31:52 <Taneb> (it's talking about a vigilante group catching a sexual predator by creating a fictional teenage girl)
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21:27:38 <b_jonas> ooh, look! the proceedings for the Sigbovik conference are already available, even before the start of the conference
21:27:44 <b_jonas> I'll have to read in the weekend
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22:19:13 <boily> nhellortti! what's ddungeon?
22:20:43 <olsner> who knows, but apparently irc plays it
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22:23:12 <nortti> it was a typo of "dungeon"
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22:24:17 <boily> and here I was hoping that ddungeon was to dungeon what ddate is to date...
22:24:28 <boily> `relcome MichaelMalus
22:24:30 <HackEgo> MichaelMalus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:24:53 <olsner> boily: maybe it should be! since everything is better discordianly
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23:42:15 <int-e> Nice, The Association of Computational Heresy
23:49:11 <boily> int-hello! what is that?
23:51:48 <int-e> boily: see b_jonas' link ... which you missed: <b_jonas> http://sigbovik.org/2015/
23:53:56 <int-e> "Bashing Haskell: Reimplementing the Parsec Library Inside the Unix Shell" ... oh no.
23:54:41 <zzo38> Computational Heresy?
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