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00:22:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Yoob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42296&oldid=42242 * Oerjan * (-38) Undo revision 42242 by [[Special:Contributions/5.29.33.254|5.29.33.254]] ([[User talk:5.29.33.254|talk]])
00:25:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42297&oldid=42276 * Oerjan * (-26) Undo revision 42276 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) (Wat)
00:30:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Talk:Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]]": content was: "这个正确的名字是“十六进制堆栈式伪汇编语言”" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]]")
00:35:38 <oerjan> there, now i can slack on visiting the wiki for another half month or so
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01:06:45 <int-e> oerjan: oh I have an unsolved puzzle... write a module that only exports (GHC.Prim.*)
01:07:10 <int-e> (you've played with this much more than I have, maybe you know a way?)
01:10:22 <oerjan> hm i haven't played with _that_
01:10:43 <oerjan> quite possibly you're the one who showed me how you could import GHC.Prim.* in the first place
01:12:01 <oerjan> can you even write a module that exports (GHC.Prim.*) _plus_ other things?
01:13:01 <oerjan> it would seem that module ... (module GHC.Prim) would have the same problem as Constraint.
01:13:05 <int-e> yes, by reexporting the whole module
01:14:59 <int-e> :browse GHC.Exts ... data (*)
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01:16:08 <shachaf> i,i module M (module GHC.Prim) where import GHC.Prim hiding (...)
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01:16:47 <shachaf> Maybe this has the same issue as Constraint that you've been talkinga bout.
01:16:49 <oerjan> int-e: Constraint doesn't get through that way, at least.
01:17:06 <shachaf> Probably it does because otherwise why would you be bringing this up.
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01:17:43 <int-e> note that the (*) does not even exist in ghc-7.8
01:18:21 <int-e> oerjan: so, contrary to what I thought, you probably have not played with it :)
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01:18:24 <oerjan> int-e: um in ghc-7.8 i can see GHC.Prim.*
01:19:29 <int-e> Oh, my testing is flawed.
01:20:06 <int-e> So yeah, it's in GHC.Prim but (visibly anyway) not reexported from GHC.Exts
01:20:23 <zzo38> What exactly does BOX do?
01:20:28 <int-e> s/(\(.*\)) (not)/\2 \1/
01:20:41 <oerjan> when i do module T ((*),Constraint) where import GHC.Prim
01:20:45 <int-e> zzo38: it's superkind, the kind of kinds.
01:20:53 <oerjan> and :m T (to remove the * before T)
01:21:06 <oerjan> then i can see the Constraint but not the *
01:21:28 <int-e> oerjan: try that with {-# LANGUAGE NoImplicitPrelude #-} to remove the other (*).
01:21:44 <oerjan> zzo38: it's the "kind of kinds" in GHC core, you're not supposed to be able to refer to it
01:21:56 <int-e> then ghc will complain about not being able to find (*), I think.
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01:22:23 <oerjan> well i tried import Prelude ()
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01:24:36 <oerjan> int-e: you can export it if you rename it with a type
01:26:15 <oerjan> oh except then it thinks it's a type not a kind
01:26:26 <oerjan> funny though, still with kind BOX
01:26:56 <shachaf> Or, at least, it's a thing that has a kind.
01:27:03 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘S’
01:27:03 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘S’
01:27:17 <oerjan> gives me the error ‘S’ of kind ‘BOX’ is not promotable
01:27:31 <oerjan> (type S = (GHC.Prim.*))
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01:43:04 <int-e> oerjan: this is what I'm playing with: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/safe/
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01:46:36 <int-e> (I guess the main purpose of the GHC.Prim.Safe module is to convince myself that it's unmanagable that way.)
01:47:05 <oerjan> why are you commenting out coerce?
01:47:21 <int-e> Because Data.Coerce is the official way to get that one
01:47:49 <int-e> So I'm anticipating the export getting deprecated.
01:48:20 <int-e> Oh, Data.Coerce is unsafe, hmm.
01:48:30 <oerjan> and are all those unboxed shifts unsafe, even the ones not unchecked* ?
01:48:31 <int-e> That is... interesting.
01:49:33 <int-e> oerjan: I suspected that adding primops would open a can of worms. They're probably safe, but look at the Prim_Safe module...
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01:50:40 <oerjan> i guess lack of documentation of what _is_ safe is a problem
01:50:43 <int-e> (The plan was to add primops by replacing GHC.Prim by GHC.Prim.Safe.)
01:51:30 <int-e> And platform-dependent primops.
01:51:52 <int-e> I wonder if there are more subtle catches like the quot/rem one.
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01:55:22 <int-e> oerjan: in any case to make it manageable, the information should probably be handled by the primop generator infrastrucure (so the safety information would be in primops.txt.pp, mostly)
01:56:19 <int-e> (this beautiful file: https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/master/compiler/prelude/primops.txt.pp )
02:12:23 <int-e> (As you can see on #haskell I guess the reason for making Data.Coerce unsafe is that coerce can break abstraction boundaries that SafeHaskell is supposed to preserve, if libraries are not careful enough with the (rather new) type roles.)
02:16:34 <int-e> (SafeHaskell is somewhat blurry. coerce by itself is type-safe. But what if you have a module like Data.Map with representational key type, and use it to implement a trusted type-polymorphic key-value store? Who is to blame if the user coerces the map to one with a different Ord instance for the key type?)
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03:31:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42298 * Esowiki201529A * (+94) Created page with "== example: Infinite loop == <pre> !/\ \/ </pre> == See also == [[SNUSP]] [[Category: No IO]]"
03:32:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42299&oldid=42298 * Esowiki201529A * (+0)
03:36:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42300&oldid=39080 * Esowiki201529A * (+18)
03:38:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42301&oldid=42299 * Esowiki201529A * (+26)
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03:43:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42302&oldid=42300 * Esowiki201529A * (+17)
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04:49:03 <zzo38> Do you know what program to use to test .XI instruments?
04:49:24 <zzo38> I know I can use OpenMPT but it requires too many steps to test it in that way
04:54:29 <zzo38> (It also sometimes crashes)
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08:54:54 <mroman> https://github.com/fogleman/nes
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10:08:43 <mroman> Very rainy week in switzerland.
10:09:33 <mroman> oh well. I should be able to live off 3.8k CHF
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10:42:08 <int-e> . o O ( As a rule, conventional wisdom is wrong. )
10:55:36 <int-e> oh nice April's fool, subtle... http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=040115
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10:56:49 <mroman> http://pastebin.com/VUHSr0JV
11:02:32 <mroman> That's not delphi though :)
11:12:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42303&oldid=42302 * Ais523 * (-17) Undo revision 42302 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) - I don't think that word means what you think it means
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12:17:09 <Guest24483> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Small_SNUSP is a good page
12:20:10 <int-e> elliott: I can hear your sarcastic undertone.
12:29:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42304&oldid=42301 * 213.162.68.171 * (+141) Add no description
12:30:04 <int-e> There, now everybody should be happy *ducks*
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13:22:20 <fizzie> Was there a particular name for a diagonal matrix where all the diagonal elements are equal? (Context: covariance matrix for multivariate Gaussian distribution; I know "spherical" is the term for the resulting distribution, but that's not a generic term for the kind of matrix. In fact, "spherical matrix" seems to be something related to matrix variate distributions.)
13:22:25 <fizzie> A "diagonal Toeplitz matrix" might be technically correct but really silly.
13:23:29 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagonal_matrix
13:23:47 <fizzie> I see "scaled identity matrix" in a few places, but that's just a description.
13:23:47 <int-e> Makes sense (I just found the same page.)
13:23:54 <b_jonas> scaled identity matrix, yes
13:24:26 <fizzie> I even thought it might be "scalar matrix", but for some reason didn't search for it.
13:24:50 <fizzie> Although in a sentence like "[matrix] is constrained to be diagonal or scalar" it sounds a bit silly.
13:25:02 <fizzie> "How can it be a scalar if it's a MxM matrix?"
13:25:12 <shachaf> Well, in a sentence like that, you can just say it's constrained to be diagonal.
13:26:19 <fizzie> But that's not exactly equivalent. I was trying to say that occasionally it's "more constrained" than just diagonal, if you want even fewer parameters for your distributions.
13:27:32 <fizzie> Maybe it's not too bad to say 'scalar'.
13:27:32 <int-e> ... is constrained to be diagonal (or even scalar).
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13:28:05 * int-e swats ----### oerjan for swatting too much.
13:28:33 <shachaf> your swatter's too short hth
13:28:45 <int-e> it's a practice swatter
13:28:49 * oerjan hits int-e with the saucepan ===\__/
13:28:59 <shachaf> Maybe you can say that all its eigenvalues are equal or something silly like that.
13:29:11 <shachaf> It's 06:31. Good time to go to sleep.
13:29:26 <oerjan> that's about when i went to sleep
13:29:43 <shachaf> and now look at you, hitting people with saucepans
13:30:16 <int-e> Well that escalated quickly.
13:30:31 * int-e drops a lift cabin on oerjan, for sake of the pun.
13:30:40 <oerjan> darn i was considering that
13:33:48 <oerjan> <int-e> oh nice April's fool, subtle... http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=040115 <-- oh so that's what it was. i was following the links from freefall but couldn't find _any_ april fool comics in the others.
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13:34:43 <oerjan> a meta one, where the joke was that there was no april 1 comic
13:45:31 <int-e> oerjan: the brilliancy is, until the next Vexxar comic is published, it could actually be true.
13:46:40 <int-e> oerjan: except that after a decade of comics it'd be rather strange to pull a "it was all just a dream" trope.
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15:54:43 <lambdabot> CYQB 041544Z 34009KT 1 1/2SM -SN BKN012 OVC020 M04/M08 A2975 RMK SN3SC3SC2 SLP078
15:54:50 <boily> fungot: why. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
15:54:50 <fungot> boily: have you considered just using ( list " hi there! say, what would he reply?
15:55:12 <boily> fungot: no, I didn't consider what you would reply.
15:55:12 <fungot> boily: telling jokes, looking stupid or just generally to squares, or whatever... " i've done a lot of
15:55:33 <fungot> b_jonas: lazy k is done.
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16:06:27 <fungot> int-e: ummm...i dont know. they were very prompt about putting it on the web
16:06:33 <lambdabot> EGLL 041550Z 04006KT 9999 SCT023 BKN040 08/03 Q1024 NOSIG
16:07:20 <fizzie> fungot: Are you saying they put it on the web too fast, and it's not really done yet?
16:07:20 <fungot> fizzie: just a tic. laundry.
16:07:27 <fizzie> fungot: Okay, take your time.
16:07:27 <fungot> fizzie: it's that one song...? :p. ugh i need to generate it, not official.
16:07:43 <b_jonas> fungot: no, the whole episode
16:07:43 <fungot> b_jonas: or something like that. complain complain complain. but it's easier. and no one wants to do a
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16:15:08 <lambdabot> CYYZ 041600Z 29013G19KT 250V310 15SM BKN045 03/M08 A3009 RMK CU7 SLP196
16:16:19 <boily> fiziello. helloren.
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16:21:39 <fizzie> "Jellona" is a humorous/"cute" term for a lion in Finnish.
16:21:46 <fizzie> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jellona
16:22:06 <fizzie> (By way of mangling from leijona.)
16:23:04 <boily> is leijona related to Nepeta Leijon?
16:23:29 <fizzie> I've wondered about that.
16:24:15 <fizzie> "-- Leijon is taken from the surname of Anna-Greta Leijon, who was a Swedish Minister of Immigration in 1976 and victim of a kidnapping plot dubbed Operation Leo. The Swedish word lejon ("leijon" is the archaic spelling) means "lion", and is pronounced LAY-on. Also, the Finnish word for lion is leijona."
16:24:54 <HackEgo> Thanks, mspa wiki. Tha wiki.
16:46:54 <FreeFull> I forgot it's 4th of april already
16:47:47 <FreeFull> Wait, nevermind, it's 13th of april I'm waiting for
16:48:47 <boily> FreelloFull. what's happening on that Fateful Day?
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16:51:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rello: not found
16:51:40 <HackEgo> Lautner: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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17:03:39 <Melvar> fizzie: What a cute metathesis.
17:04:47 <HackEgo> Thanks, metathesis. Thetathesis.
17:05:00 <fizzie> Thetathesis sounds like a particle physics thing.
17:05:09 <oerjan> HackEgo: i'm sorry but you were supposed to say Thetamesis tdnh
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17:06:07 <Melvar> Of course, it makes one wonder how German got “Löwe” from the same source.
17:06:27 <oerjan> it's løve in norwegian hth
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17:07:03 <fizzie> Come to Kenya, we've got løver.
17:07:20 <fizzie> The song even refers Norway.
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17:08:01 <oerjan> "From Middle High German lewe, from Old High German leo (both with variants), from Latin leō."
17:08:29 <Melvar> Apparently Norwegian got it from Middle Low German.
17:08:37 <oerjan> "From Old Swedish leon, from Latin leo."
17:08:52 <oerjan> oh right, it's leo, leonis in latin
17:09:28 <oerjan> standard dropping of -n from nominative
17:10:30 <oerjan> borrowed from greek, which had -n everywhere
17:12:19 <Melvar> Is “-ν-” a hook-nose emoticon?
17:12:46 <b_jonas> whereas latin has -us everywhere
17:12:48 <oerjan> no it's a greek letter infixed hth
17:12:58 <oerjan> b_jonas: um not in that word hth
17:13:11 <oerjan> but a lot of them, for sure
17:13:41 <oerjan> apparently wiktionary manages to construct the entire greek declension from {{grc-decl-3rd-οντ-prx|form=M-full|λ|έ|ε}}
17:14:50 <oerjan> "Many ancient languages possessed similar words for lion, including Akkadian 𒌨 (labbu) (reconstructed to Proto-Semitic *labiʾ-). It is unclear who borrowed the word from whom, though the ultimate source is likely not Indo-European."
17:15:06 <HackEgo> [U+12328 CUNEIFORM SIGN UR]
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18:14:58 <oerjan> ProofTechnique: very cuneiform thx
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18:20:29 <boily> fungot: is there a cuneiform character for chicken twh?
18:20:29 <fungot> boily: hipe iirc is the name of the exception
18:20:44 <boily> fungot: so, no char because of hipe?
18:20:45 <fungot> boily: once we do the fnord on proton are very fnord don't necessarily have anything on paper about this
18:21:07 <boily> A cuneiform chicken needs subatomic fnords. understood.
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18:45:19 <zzo38> Why does charmap crash when I try to start it from the command prompt?
18:46:05 <oren> no idea. it works fine when I do it
18:48:57 <zzo38> It works now, after I closed and reopened the command prompt
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19:39:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[!!!Batch]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42305&oldid=39046 * 73.184.106.177 * (+1) Fixed typo
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21:53:39 <SgeoPhone> There's an announcement on nethack.org
22:03:53 <boily> it's very ominous.
22:04:12 <boily> @ask ais523 hello! what with the nethack.org announcement from yesterday?
22:04:25 <boily> @tell ais523 (yesterday being April 3 hth)
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22:57:55 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: r13: not found
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23:01:55 <int-e> Another fun big data company. Ostensibly they provide real-time data distribution for web applications, but they also analyze the traffic.
23:02:31 <int-e> Founded 2010, surely took me a long time to stumble upon them.
23:03:48 <int-e> (It seems I could've found them already in late 2013, humblebundle was already one of their customers back then.)
23:04:40 <oerjan> clearly a hebrew company
23:04:56 <int-e> `rot13 phevbfvgl xvyyrq gur png
23:05:28 <int-e> (I had not realized that png is rot13 for cat, I woner whether this explains the obsession of the internet with those creatures...)
23:08:10 <oerjan> the next step after learning to read rot13 code is to be able to speak it fluently
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23:09:34 <int-e> cyrnfr gryy zr gung lbh'er xvqqvat
23:10:45 <int-e> (I'm using cut&paste and `tr` for this)
23:11:01 <oerjan> i didn't say _i_ could do it. i'm just now disappointed i don't find any youtube videos.
23:11:22 <int-e> "how to read rot13 in 26 easy steps"?
23:11:27 <oerjan> surely a proper linguist should have no problems
23:11:59 <oerjan> erm learning to read it is of course essentially trivial compared to any unknown natural language
23:12:15 <oerjan> but _aloud_ might take a bit of practice.
23:12:28 <oerjan> unless you're bilingually czech-georgian.
23:12:57 <SgeoPhone> I've used pubnub for senior project
23:13:17 <oerjan> int-e: i used cut and paste for most of this too
23:13:20 <int-e> Can't anybody do anything by themselves anymore...
23:14:36 <int-e> (That was a comment about pubnub.)
23:14:53 <oerjan> i managed to make out "Vs lbh fnl fb..." without, though. although i sort of cheated by looking at the above translations.
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23:16:25 <int-e> Whenever I hear "cloud computing" I picture the data as rain.
23:17:10 <int-e> oerjan: that's just the fans blowin
23:18:24 <FireFly> fizzie: so I learned today that the rot14 of "zem.fi" is "nsa.tw"
23:21:39 <oerjan> !zemjoust url_lbh 停止窺探！
23:21:52 <zemhill_> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
23:21:53 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
23:21:58 <zemhill_> oerjan.url_lbh: points -30.10, score 3.83, rank 47/47
23:24:38 <FireFly> huh. curious how hey rots to url
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23:26:11 <oerjan> Frooxius: are you a bilingual czech-georgian and can you read rot-13 aloud fluently
23:27:01 <oerjan> rot-13 english, that is. rot-13 czech is probably easy to pronounce.
23:27:28 <oerjan> `rot13 Strč prst skrz krk
23:27:56 <oerjan> well, easier than the original, anyway
23:29:40 <oerjan> yep, holds for georgian too
23:30:25 * oerjan notes himself in the google result
23:30:30 <HackEgo> Thanks, Mgrvgrvladje. Thadje.
23:30:43 <oerjan> good, `thanks now works with it
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23:32:03 <oerjan> hmph google translate doesn't have transcription for georgian
23:33:24 <oerjan> oh hm it's possible the "Georgian Latin" virtual keyboard is actual qwerty in disguise
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23:36:18 <oerjan> ok მგრვგრვლადჯე turns into mgrvgrvladje in GT but no google hits :(
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23:37:09 <oerjan> i am slightly troubled by the fact the only mentions i've seen of the name is about how it's the largest number of initial consonants word
23:38:26 <oerjan> hm come to think of it i'm pretty sure i tried to cobble the georgian spelling together from wikipedia's alphabet page once
23:42:29 <fizzie> FireFly: You don't have to be worried unless you live in Taiwan hth
23:45:32 <oerjan> funny how georgian letters are completely indecipherable to latin scripters but parts of the alphabet order is clearly related to greek
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