00:00:17 <lambdabot> ORBI 080000Z 00000KT CAVOK 19/06 Q1010 NOSIG
00:00:47 <lambdabot> ORER 072300Z 15004KT CAVOK 13/08 Q1013 NOSIG
00:21:26 <zzo38> I made up a new variant of Magic: the Gathering now, it is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/randcommand.var
00:31:38 <boily> long live conspiracies!
00:37:33 <zzo38> Have you dreamt of nonexisting episodes of television shows?
00:39:59 <boily> as far as my memory serves, no, I think not.
00:40:22 * boily flunked zzo38's Roman Catholic quiz. «maudit qu'y'est pas facile!»
00:42:20 <zzo38> boily: Well, some of the questions are difficult; which questions did you miss?
00:42:52 <boily> I got 19 out of 42. most were guessed...
00:43:23 <boily> I do know the guy's called St-François-d'Assise. other than that they were wildly random.
00:47:16 <zzo38> What kind of religions are you though?
00:48:47 <boily> atheist. I was born and raised Roman Catholic for about the first half of my life.
00:50:48 <zzo38> Ah, OK. (I was also born and raised Roman Catholic, and sometimes still go to church on Christmas Eve)
00:52:19 <zzo38> I do know Catholics, atheists, and a few others though. (I consider myself a panendeist.)
00:55:19 <zzo38> There is still much to read in the Bible though, even if you are not Christian. I think I even read in some book written by an atheist, in a list of books he recommended, the Bible was included in that list too.
00:55:44 <zzo38> Of course there is much to read in other books too!
00:56:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42339&oldid=42331 * SuperJedi224 * (-8038) /* An interpreter in Java: */
00:56:59 <boily> books are made to be read. it's their purpose in life.
00:57:28 <oerjan> that's what they want you to think
00:58:58 <zzo38> boily: Yes, clearly, that is what it is, otherwise you don't need to write on it.
01:04:59 <boily> oerjan: yes, and I agree. I hope you take good care of your books and that you pet them regularly.
01:20:19 <orin> panendeist - um, lemme see pan=all en=in dei=god ist=believer "someone who believes all is in god" ?
01:27:07 <orin> That emoticon looks seird when \ is a yen sign
01:30:26 <boily> ¥ is ¥, and \ is \.
01:31:47 <pikhq> boily: In Japanese locales \ renders as the yen sign.
01:31:47 <orin> Hmm... apparently the first one is a double-width yen sign
01:32:21 <pikhq> For legacy reasons.
01:32:51 <boily> pikhq: I know. it's surprising the first time you're Team Viewing some desktop in Japan and all paths are C:¥...¥...¥...
01:33:24 <boily> and then you discover that in Korea it's wons all the way, but then you half-expected it anyway.
01:33:36 <zzo38> pikhq: That's because it is the Japanese character encoding I think. And then some people wanted to do it even if you are using different encoding
01:34:20 <pikhq> zzo38: Ish. In legacy Japanese encodings there is no \ but the yen sign is encoded the same as \ in ASCII.
01:34:46 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, that's what I meant the Japanese character encoding has a yen sign where standard ASCII has a backslash.
01:35:05 <pikhq> So semantically it was treated as a backslash...
01:35:22 <zzo38> Even the Famicom keyboard has a yen sign, but no backslash.
01:35:26 <pikhq> And when they switched to Unicode they still wanted the thing-that-acted-like-backslash to look like a yen sign. :)
01:35:55 <orin> I've seen anime where there are computer classes and it is like printf("%d￥n",i);
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01:36:17 <pikhq> Yep. Though arguably that's incorrect C.
01:36:31 <orin> Such as in serial experiments Lain
01:39:04 <pikhq> Because their charset doesn't have \ it should be printf("%d??/n",i);
01:43:05 <zzo38> If the character encoding has a yen sign in the place where a backslash in ASCII, then you can use yen sign in that way; C is using ASCII encoding so a variant of ASCII still, you use whatever is in the correct position of the codes. Such as, some older ASCII codes use up arrow in place of ^ so in such codes you use up arrow where ^ is expected (as XOR or whatever).
01:43:34 <orin> http://postimg.org/image/xg91wqvfn/342429f8/
01:44:13 <zzo38> But when using UTF-8 Unicode the proper character should be a proper backslash. UTF-16 should not be used to write a C code though, but some other character encodings are OK (such as ISO-8859-1, or CP437, or whatever)
01:44:59 <orin> Hmm... I'm not sure what printf("%c<&\n",a); does anyway
01:45:08 <orin> Hmm... I'm not sure what printf("%c<^\n",a); does anyway
01:45:12 <orin> Hmm... I'm not sure what printf("%c<%\n",a); does anyway
01:45:56 <zzo38> Probably it isn't valid printf format string, whoever made that picture may have done the mistake
01:47:03 <orin> It's from serial experiments lain... apart from the mistake he seems to be teaching how to use comparison operators or something
01:48:59 <orin> http://postimg.org/image/gc5maf6el/
01:49:44 <orin> unfortunately the anime doesn't show the rest of the lesson because our heroine is about to go on a crazy acid trip
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01:54:56 <pikhq> zzo38: C does not use ASCII encoding.
01:56:02 <pikhq> zzo38: C uses some encoding with the property that 0 through 9 are sequential, and a small set of characters exist.
01:56:45 <pikhq> Alphanumerics + !"#%&'()*+,-./:;<=>?[\]^_{|}~
01:57:10 <orin> Does C specify the visual appearance of said characters?
01:57:26 <zzo38> And line break too I suppose? You missed line breaks.
01:57:41 <pikhq> orin: Not especially.
01:58:14 <pikhq> zzo38: Right, yes, it also requires the space character, horizontal tab, vertical tab, and form feed.
01:58:22 <orin> Then japanese computers simply have a \ that looks like ￥ instead of ＼
01:59:08 <pikhq> Additionally, at run time alert, backspace, carriage return, and newline must exist.
01:59:29 <pikhq> orin: That is the implementation used on modern systems, yes.
01:59:48 <pikhq> \ simply has a locale-specific rendering, and nobody is that confused.
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02:02:05 <zzo38> Yes, it is the C backslash character, and has the same code number as the ASCII backslash, I suppose, is how you can describe it, even if it is not a backslash.
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02:02:56 <orin> IIRC, {|} [\] had locale-specific renderings in nordic countries, so people would use xÄiÅ instead of x[i].
02:04:40 <pikhq> orin: How odd, the relevant legacy encoding is ISO 8859-1, no?
02:04:54 <oerjan> this was in the 7-bit age.
02:05:22 <pikhq> *Ugh*, right, ISO 646 got used too.
02:06:13 <oerjan> it's the reason why irc by default consider those characters different case variants of each others
02:07:00 <oerjan> it used the finnish variant
02:08:23 * oerjan checks if irssi will do that, nope
02:09:39 <oerjan> well the server refused my /nick f\`-`\f so at least it still does
02:10:43 -!- orin has changed nick to {|oren|].
02:11:09 <oerjan> [|oren|]: does this ping you
02:11:41 <{|oren|]> apparently they are allowed but no longer case-viariant
02:11:56 -!- {|oren|] has changed nick to \oren\.
02:12:22 <oerjan> \oren\: no, they are case-invariant in the server
02:12:52 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to orin.
02:13:21 <oerjan> if you try to do /nick or /whois with a variant of them, it will be blocked/displayed
02:13:53 <oerjan> (if the nick is in use in some variation)
02:14:52 <orin> The british variant of iso646 had # as £ apparently
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02:31:59 <lmt> big channel
02:32:25 <HackEgo> lmt: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:32:34 <lmt> very big channel
02:32:45 <lmt> how did it get so big?
02:32:58 <orin> I got here via the wiki
02:33:46 <orin> also there are a ton of bots on this channel, so it inflates the nubmers a bit
02:33:53 <lmt> that explains it
02:34:20 <orin> for example fungot HackEgo lambdabot idrisbot...
02:34:20 <fungot> orin: fnord returns true if ( eq val 4) code" from a different angle ( make-rectangular 4 1) 2 3
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02:38:36 <oerjan> the bots aren't more than about 10%...
02:39:53 <orin> in a general sense, or right now?
02:40:00 <lmt> nice pdf in the topic
02:40:03 <oerjan> hm we are indeed pretty big
02:40:32 <Taneb> I have no idea what is going on
02:40:54 <Taneb> All the asterisks in lmt
02:42:52 <Taneb> I'm also confused about why I am awake
02:43:42 <lmt> i wish i were cool enough to be in the list of people in the pdf :(
02:43:54 <oerjan> i don't know why my fingers insisted on spelling it with an a
02:44:37 <oerjan> lmt: it's mostly extracted from stuff in HackEgo. it may not go back far enough.
02:44:51 <zzo38> You can add stuff into HackEgo yourself though, instead of using PDF
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02:46:09 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ ｗｉｌｌ ｃａｕｓｅ ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ ｂｙ
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02:46:49 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ ｗｉｌｌ ｃａｕｓｅ ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ ｂｙ
02:46:53 <HackEgo> 49) <Madelon> both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. <Madelon> kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? \ 109) <CakeProphet> how does a "DNA computer" work. <CakeProphet> von neumann machines? <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. <Phantom_Hoover> It's just stealing the universe's w
02:47:34 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1238) <oren> is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] <oren> Ohh.... so apparently
02:48:00 <Taneb> `quote taneb * cows
02:48:09 <orin> `quote instant
02:48:09 <Taneb> `quote punched myself in the face
02:48:09 <HackEgo> 512) <Patashu> dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! <Patashu> I need.....an adult ;_; \ 1117) <ais523> hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day \ 1127) <Sgeo> I designed a norn to drop dead
02:48:10 <HackEgo> 401) <Taneb> Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once.
02:48:43 <orin> the watchtower
02:49:37 <orin> oh god my compulsive word association is coming back
02:50:14 <zzo38> In my opinion the best program for online quizzes is Internet Quiz Engine; the other ones require you to use a GUI and are slow. Isn't it?
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02:50:35 <lifthrasiir> (read the topic's PDF for 3rd time) ...I think that was originally Starcraft mentioned in my entry.
02:50:54 <HackEgo> lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at League of Legends.
02:51:06 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house.
02:51:15 <oerjan> `url wisdom/lifthrasiir
02:51:16 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/lifthrasiir
02:51:51 <zzo38> I think you should remove that PDF to make room for other stuff; you can link information from HackEgo and so on. Of course the PDF and other information can also be found in the logs. Right now it is unnecessary but it might be useful in future to remove this link
02:52:14 <orin> `quote oren instant
02:52:27 <orin> `quote oren.*instant
02:52:27 <HackEgo> 1238) <oren> is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] <oren> Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water
02:52:45 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: it's been that way since 2012 at least
02:53:31 <oerjan> that is, when HackEgo's repository history was wiped out last
02:54:36 <orin> Requiring to use a GUI is barbaric
02:55:30 <oerjan> did you start remembering the future instead
03:01:33 <HackEgo> 1124) <Taneb> kmc, I was trying to go to a sci-fi and fantasy society social, and I went to the wrong bar <Taneb> Wound up at my university's fetish society <Taneb> Didn't realise for an hour and a half
03:01:42 <Taneb> Someone apparently has now done the reverse of that
03:01:50 <Taneb> So the balance of the universe is restored
03:03:37 <Taneb> (they saw "Fantasy" in the society name and jumped to conclusions)
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03:06:44 <augur> Taneb: ahahaha thats great :)
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04:00:15 <zzo38> Do you know how to hack Pokemon Pinball? There is a problem with the game, that the Mewtwo stage you can earn too many points. Also how to make Visual Boy Advance to allow opposite directions pushed together?
04:11:11 <HackEgo> 1127) <Sgeo> I designed a norn to drop dead instantly if he ever thought about eating elevators. He was stillborn.
04:11:18 <Sgeo> What does dying norns have to do with punching myself in the face?
04:40:23 <Taneb> Sgeo, you creating those norns and me punching myself in the face both got in the quote file
04:45:28 <coppro> Sgeo: why were you interested about me being on TDT?
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04:53:09 <Sgeo> coppro: I was just surprised at it, and surprised at the continued existed of TDT
04:56:38 <orin> TDT? isn't that the thing from lessworng
04:57:13 <oerjan> timeless devteam, sounds about right
04:57:58 <orin> I thought he was on the Nethack dev team?
04:58:21 <HackEgo> coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy.
04:58:48 <oerjan> `slashlearn tdt/That doesn't tdt.
04:59:50 <orin> shachaf: I have heard TDT referring to "timeless decision theory" which is some philosophy where people in the future can make threats to people in the past by simulating them, or some nonsense likt that
05:00:43 <shachaf> I wonder whether using // as a separator would be better for slashlearn
05:00:58 <shachaf> That way you could learn inside directories.
05:01:15 <oerjan> well, but then you'd need it to mkdirs too
05:01:24 <zzo38> I think it works to just one slash; I don't expect you need subdirectories (but, I don't know for sure).
05:01:49 <shachaf> whoa, did you play the discworld computer game?
05:01:53 <oerjan> i don't think we should encourage subdirectories too much, although wisdom has some.
05:07:45 <Sgeo> In this context I think The DevTeam was what was meant
05:12:25 <shachaf> oerjan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvNLw7IHWmw#t=19m49s hth
05:24:43 <zzo38> Have you ever watched a television show called "To Be Announced"?
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06:29:10 <zzo38> Is Socrates a good golfer?
06:34:40 <shachaf> good golfers are immortal so no hth
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08:21:13 <mroman> so all immortal people are good golfers?
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08:37:27 <Jafet> Socrates is everyman; in other words every man is Socrates. Therefore every man is mortal.
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09:03:58 <myname> are there two-dimensional languages besides rail that do have commands that need more than one character?
09:10:34 <ais523> myname: there's some sort of cross between INTERCAL and Befunge, I think
09:10:48 <ais523> but it wasn't very interesting IMO
09:11:07 <ais523> let me check my very first esolang
09:11:32 <ais523> if I can even find where it's got ot
09:12:36 <ais523> * The playfield is made out of blocks of commands and data. The blocks are^M
09:12:37 <ais523> * 2x2 blocks arranged in a hex-grid pattern, like this:^M
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09:13:09 <ais523> looks like I had enough foresight to document how the language actually worked
09:13:13 <ais523> which is something of an improvement on Burn
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09:14:24 <ais523> myname: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/el1.c
09:14:37 <ais523> may as well "release" it, now I remembered it exists
09:15:10 <ais523> the file's dated 2006, that seems plausible
09:16:22 <ais523> now I'm trying to figure out what platform this was developed on
09:16:39 <ais523> the Windows-style newlines and order of the platform defines give some clues
09:16:43 <ais523> I suspect it may have been DOS
09:16:59 <ais523> after a while, Windows (especially pre-Vista) becomes annoying enough that anything is better :-(
09:17:05 <ais523> and I didn't have a lot of options back then
09:21:56 <ais523> that's a good reason for it to be 4 by 4
09:22:15 <ais523> I think it's better than most people's first attempts
09:22:24 <ais523> but it does rather miss the point it was aiming to illustrate
09:23:54 <b_jonas> so where will you release it? esolangs.org?
09:24:53 <ais523> I just put the file online
09:25:24 <ais523> also, it's very hard to search for files that originally came from a case-insensitive system, when your existing copy of them is on a case-sensitive system
09:25:37 <ais523> because you have to guess the capitalization
09:26:17 <b_jonas> can't you just search for all capitalizations?
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09:29:43 <ais523> that's what I did in the end
09:29:56 <ais523> luckily "el1" only has two cased characters in it
09:30:03 <ais523> or, well, I found the source on the second try
09:30:08 <ais523> my first try found only the executables
09:30:43 <ais523> I guess I could try to get them running in wineconsole, but figuring out how an esolang works based on an /implementation executable/ is pretty hard unless it gives good error messages
09:33:15 <b_jonas> ais523: but it has comments explaining how it works,
09:33:32 <ais523> yep, that should make things much easier
09:33:32 <b_jonas> and you can guess the rest from the source and testing
09:33:45 <ais523> I actually think it's a complete spec, just one written in an awkward style
09:33:47 <b_jonas> and I don't see why you need a wineconsole for it
09:33:52 <ais523> (again, which is believeable for my first esolang)
09:34:01 <ais523> it was a hypothetical about "what if all I had was the executable"
09:35:06 <b_jonas> well, it's by an old compiler which doesn't optimize too much so disassembling and debugging would help a bit more than these days, but yeah.
09:38:38 <ais523> 2006 isn't /that/ old, but the compiler itself may well be much older
09:38:55 <ais523> it'd either be a version of DJGPP which was current at the time (i.e. basically gcc-circa-2006 levels of optimization)
09:39:01 <ais523> or Borland C++ 4, which was ancient even at the time
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10:05:09 * ais523 reads a US court case, and is amused to see it discussing which state's laws to use to determine which state's laws to use
10:05:37 <ais523> (the court case used New York state laws to determine that California state laws were those that applied to the rest of the case)
10:07:25 <int-e> `complain I don't know what to complain about.
10:07:28 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
10:12:27 <AndoDaan> `complain about frivolous use of the complain command.
10:12:28 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
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10:19:11 <ais523> I'd like to see a human vs. compiler asm-writing contest
10:19:14 <ais523> for a range of processors
10:19:39 <ais523> I think on most embedded systems, the human would win easily, because IME the compilers suck there
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10:35:42 <b_jonas> ais523: the problem is that computers only have a source code, have to stick to that literally even when the programmer wrote sucky source code, whereas humans know the purpose and hopefully even test input data to know what to optimize for
10:35:59 <b_jonas> (sometimes the computers have test input data too, and use profile-based optimization, but that's rare)
10:36:18 <ais523> I think you should allow PGO here
10:36:45 <ais523> although, the benefit from it isn't usually that large, it's mostly just used to know how likely a branch is to be taken
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10:46:11 <b_jonas> The human usually knows a great deal of non-aliasing and frequent special case and similar information that the computer can't divine from the code.
10:46:38 <b_jonas> Also expected array sizes or loop counts.
10:55:01 <mroman> I'm against using life expectantcy as a "quality of life"-measurement.
10:56:29 <ais523> there's also the risk that one set or other of the code is compiled flat-out wrong
10:56:36 <ais523> most likely the human-generated version
10:57:32 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, people produce a lot of flawed benchmark without even testing that the snippets they ran really compute the solution at all
10:57:45 <b_jonas> that's why I never believe timing benchmarks unless I produce them myself
10:57:57 <ais523> this is why alioth claims it shouldn't be taken seriously
10:58:18 <ais523> because there's too much skill influence from the human coders
10:58:34 <ais523> like, it'd be a struggle doing some of that stuff in INTERCAL at all, let alone via the fastest possible algorithm
10:59:06 <b_jonas> I'd just stick to human versus human.
10:59:16 <ais523> http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ for people who don't know about it
10:59:50 <b_jonas> (They can use computers, which are just tools, totally not secretly our masters.)
11:12:40 <b_jonas> fungot, do you believe benchmarks?
11:12:40 <fungot> b_jonas: it has been run and debugged now i am depressed... there's been good and bad.
11:13:54 <mroman> fungot: Debugging benchmarks sounds like fun.
11:13:54 <fungot> mroman: when developing full applications it is fnord illustrative of how heavy on style and light on substance java really is an amazing hack that abuses the fnord interleaving ( like in pascal :)
11:15:15 <mroman> that's abso-fnording-lutely amazing.
11:16:05 <mroman> fnord (adj): We don't for the fnord of it know what fnord means.
11:16:34 <mroman> Life is fnord after all.
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11:43:12 <Jafet> ais523: I would expect custom compiler backends to enter such a contest if people took it seriously
11:43:33 <ais523> it'd be hard to get enough people to take such a contest seriously
11:43:56 <Jafet> Also humans would take hours to write assembly code by hand, imagine if you gave superopt ten hours
11:44:44 <ais523> did superopt just try every combination of optimization settings to see which worked best?
11:45:13 <b_jonas> basically, I'm not affraid to lose my work to this kind of stuff.
11:45:56 <Jafet> http://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Superopt
11:46:25 <Jafet> Well, in reality superopt wouldn't get very far in ten hours
11:47:31 <Jafet> You could probably make a compiler backend out of smt solvers or static analysers, some of them can guess loop invariants now
11:47:40 <ais523> wow, that page is really short on info and has a couple of external links that look like they go to the info
11:47:44 <ais523> but they just redirect back to itself
11:48:56 <Jafet> Given that it was “released on 3 June 1995” the fact that it still has a webpage is quite impressive
11:50:26 <ais523> OK, I'm downloading the source to get information about how it works
11:50:58 <Jafet> Most likely it only works for small pure functions
11:51:39 <Jafet> and optimises them for processors that you don't have any more
11:52:17 <ais523> Jafet: I keep all my old processors around just in case!
11:52:46 <ais523> wow this is smaller than I expected
11:53:08 <ais523> since when does a software project only have 13 files in it?
11:53:34 <b_jonas> ais523: try ls -a instead of ls :-)
11:53:52 <ais523> b_jonas: but .. isn't part of the project
11:54:24 <ais523> FireFly: a large part of it seems to be written in a DSL, though
11:54:27 <ais523> with the C file being the DSL interp
11:54:32 <b_jonas> ais523: um, ok, then ls -A
11:54:36 <ais523> that comes to another 5518 lines
11:56:24 <Jafet> I'm sure you kept your old i686 in working condition for this very moment
11:56:44 <ais523> processor probably works
11:56:49 <ais523> not sure about the rest of the machine though
11:56:52 <Jafet> Although it should be mentioned that present-day compilers still compile for i686, for some reasons
11:57:11 <ais523> actually I think one of the machines still has a 16-bit processor
11:57:23 <ais523> I booted it up like 5 or 6 years ago to see if it was still working
11:57:34 <ais523> the hard drive was unreadable but it could boot and run from floppy disk
11:59:02 <ais523> superopt seems quite specific in its use
11:59:13 <ais523> I guess you could try to get it to come up with a fast inverse square root or the like
11:59:36 <ais523> but unless the FPU has an instruction specifically for doing that (in which case the search will be fast), it'd be unlikely to find it in a reasonable length of time
11:59:40 <Jafet> I doubt it would find the right 32-bit constant in time
12:00:08 <ais523> there's actually a range of constants that work
12:00:19 <ais523> the one in the infamous code isn't right in the middle of it, either
12:00:30 <ais523> so it might just have been a trial and error thing
12:01:30 <ais523> superopt rainbow tables
12:01:40 <ais523> you're already running all possible program fragments already, right?
12:01:59 <ais523> so you may as well try some standard inputs on all of them, produce a corresponding hash code
12:02:15 <ais523> then when you want to implement a new function optimally, just look it up in the table and see if the impl is correct
12:02:51 <Jafet> Unfortunately for us humans, we love to make short passwords and long programs.
12:03:26 <olsner> maybe you could make that into a distributed "optimal functions for everything" search
12:04:19 <b_jonas> ais523: the problem with that is often you want to implement a partial function
12:04:28 <b_jonas> and you can't just table that
12:04:58 <b_jonas> not so easily as complete functions
12:05:14 <Jafet> You can use wildcards for the inputs outside the domain, but searching with wildcards is slower.
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12:11:04 <mroman> There should be password schemes/hash functions with error correction codes.
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13:37:15 <elliott> 12:49:23 <Jafet> You could probably make a compiler backend out of smt solvers or static analysers, some of them can guess loop invariants now
13:37:22 <elliott> regehr is doing stuff like this
13:37:28 <elliott> superoptimisation with an SMT solver
13:38:38 <ais523> elliott: this reminds me of the TASvideos Polarium Automated Solver War
13:38:48 <ais523> which someone eventually won using a SAT solver
13:39:53 <elliott> http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1109 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1146 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1192 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1219
13:43:21 <ais523> hmm, maybe an INTERCAL superoptimizer would be interesting
13:43:43 <elliott> (fun fact: superoptimisation was pioneered by alexia massalin, who also wrote the famous Synthesis OS thesis)
13:44:25 <ais523> that said, violin's using a satisfaction solver already (I forget the technical term for the class of satisfaction solver that gprolog has)
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13:47:00 <ais523> elliott: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.lang.intercal/fcxkgc7Pomk
13:47:11 <ais523> (much as I hate linking Google Groups, but it isn't archived elsewhere)
13:47:41 <elliott> "Creating an extra thread to do the addition is somewhat inefficient"
13:47:54 <elliott> ais523: btw, you're going to end up secretly controling nethack development through coppro, right
13:48:19 <ais523> elliott: there's more involved here than is public
13:48:52 <ais523> let's just say, if I wanted to secretly control NetHack development, even without coppro I'd probably find a way
13:49:48 <ais523> heh, Google interprets the filename "violin.pl" as an URL
13:49:51 <ais523> I'm scared to visit it
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14:01:02 <ais523> "This syntax was designed to look reassuringly familiar, yet be surprisingly unintuitive in practice (especially when writing it by hand)."
14:01:07 <ais523> I need to read my old esolang stuff more oftne
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14:43:07 <Taneb> Help I am binging Girl Genius again
14:43:17 <Taneb> And I think I have just spotted an Animal Crossing reference
14:43:48 <Taneb> http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090121 Major Resetti - Mr Resetti is a mole in Animal Crossing
14:47:16 <mroman> Press the button with a square on it
14:47:20 <mroman> a filled square that is.
14:47:32 <mroman> or press the one with two vertical lines
14:47:54 <mroman> Just don't fnording press the button with a triangle on it.
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15:59:58 <FireFly> mroman: the button with a square on it, that's "maximize" in the window bar, right?
16:00:33 <ais523> that's a filled square, though, not an unfilled square
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16:45:58 <quintopia> ais523: what were you quoting above?
16:46:20 <ais523> quintopia: violin documentation
16:46:31 <ais523> which is in the sharball in the post I linked above
16:46:43 <ais523> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.lang.intercal/fcxkgc7Pomk to save you the trouble of scrolling back
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17:00:49 <ais523> because the file that implements assignments in C-INTERCAL is called fiddle.c
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17:03:57 <quintopia> presumably because it fiddles with things
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17:10:06 <ais523> <spambot> How are you going to get a bit slimmer? It's barely possible in your case.
17:10:14 <ais523> first time I've seen spambots actually throw insults around
17:11:31 <orin> Uh, isn't that a compliment?
17:11:52 <ais523> I'm not sure at this point
17:12:03 <orin> Or maybe a expression of concern for your anorexia?
17:12:37 <ais523> I interpreted it as "there's no /way/ someone like you is ever going to slim without the product we're selling", with a sidecurrent of "and you really need it"
17:12:59 <orin> Ah. From a spambot, that would make sense.
17:13:00 <int-e> . o O ( Pro tip: Eating spam is not a healthy diet. )
17:13:12 <orin> Spam is, however, delicious
17:13:56 <orin> especially spam sandwiches with hot saucece
17:16:07 <quintopia> there is a store he called spamacyt
17:16:24 <quintopia> i haven't been inside, but i think it's just an unfortunate portmanteau of "spa" and "pharmacy"
17:16:58 <quintopia> (there's no t on the end...that was a typo)
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17:45:17 <elliott> ais523: is that reply to the violin thread spam
17:45:47 <ais523> elliott: sort-of, I think it's from someone who wants to contribute to alt.lang.intercal but doesn't know enough INTERCAL to make any sense of the content
17:45:56 <elliott> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.lang.intercal/aTAikUJ2yDc nice replying to 2002 posts in 2014
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17:58:07 <elliott> ais523: The company that runs blogspot web site isn't widely known in Europe. For example I don't know if it is from Bermuda or from Finland; latter due to usage of double vowels in its name (Hei Hyvää päivää! Mitä kuuluu?). But I know that it knows your fetishes better than other companies and even better than you do. It's hidden under /settings/ads URL and then Interests, in case you don't know.
17:58:22 <elliott> i guess the joke is pretending google is a finnish company??
17:58:50 <ais523> the third sentence makes me think it's a joke
17:59:00 <ais523> the rest can be interpreted as "it's hard to discover which company it is that runs blogspot"
17:59:15 <elliott> well the double vowel thing only makes sense with "google"
17:59:25 <elliott> because blogspot and blogger do not have two adjacent vowels in them
17:59:32 <ais523> in that case it probably is a joke, but not a very good one
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18:40:44 <b_jonas> what the... the Hurr Durr archives frontpage at https://www.hurrdurr.org/ doesn't list 4.0-rc7
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20:34:38 <orin> http://postimg.org/image/jg0irvjzb/
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21:44:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FreedomSka * New user account
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22:00:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42340&oldid=42332 * FreedomSka * (+18)
22:01:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42341 * FreedomSka * (+706) Created page with "'''EncryptFuck''' is a encrypted version of a similar brainfuck code created by [[User:FreedomSka|FreedomSka]] This is a comment <pre> : COMMENTS </pre> The syntax it's like ..."
22:03:06 <Sgeo> Programming is hard
22:03:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42342&oldid=42341 * FreedomSka * (+28)
22:03:35 <Sgeo> You can be all like "This bad default is breaking stuff and fixing it won't hurt user code" and some idiot user's code does break
22:05:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:05:05 <oerjan> i think this applies to life in general.
22:05:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42343&oldid=42342 * FreedomSka * (+24)
22:06:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:FreedomSka]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42344 * FreedomSka * (+53) Created page with "[[https://esolangs.org/wiki/EncryptFuck|EncryptFuck]]"
22:07:00 <boily> Sgello. hellørjan.
22:07:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:FreedomSka]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42345&oldid=42344 * FreedomSka * (-38)
22:07:06 <boily> on average, we're all idiot user code.
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22:28:48 <HackEgo> lleu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:29:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42346&oldid=42337 * 194.168.93.97 * (+90)
22:30:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * TheMeq * uploaded "[[File:Meq-ide-screenshot.png]]": Screenshot of the Meq IDE
22:31:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42348&oldid=42346 * TheMeq * (-14)
22:57:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42349&oldid=42343 * 87.11.7.181 * (+50)
22:58:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42350&oldid=42349 * 87.11.7.181 * (+8)
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23:27:20 <tswett> Factorio is a pretty fun hardware description language.
23:27:44 <tswett> Someone should make a page for it on Esolang.
23:27:52 <tswett> Focusing, obviously, on how to compute with it.
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23:48:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42351&oldid=42350 * 87.11.7.181 * (+224)