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00:24:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42614&oldid=42594 * Phi * (+14)
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01:09:03 <boily> int-e: int-ello. what is stenosteganography? it sounds like something I'd be prefixing to a chicken.
01:18:01 <orin> I assume it is stuff quickly written in invisible ink?
01:18:17 <orin> or the electronic equivalent
01:20:41 <zzo38> You are going to write with electric ink?
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01:22:41 <boily> hellorin. I think it's invisible shorthand.
01:22:58 <boily> hezzo38. there exists conductive ink for drawing circuits and stuff.
01:24:41 <zzo38> I don't know writing with shorthand; if I knew then I can try to use shorthand to record any play or movie I watched by writing down everything they say.
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02:12:01 <Sgeo> Expensive laptop, and it's defective
02:38:04 <orin> Did you already buy it? That was fast.
02:54:53 <orin> Why can't printers work by singeing the paper with heat? Then they wouldn't need ink.
02:59:22 <zzo38> How much fire do you need to do that?
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03:15:17 <doesthiswork> greg shorthand is pretty interesting because it is optimised for ease of movement
03:21:21 <zzo38> I have heard of that; the book I have is Pitman (although this book doesn't explain all of it either)
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03:32:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42615&oldid=42570 * Esowiki201529A * (+4) /* Escape sequence */ Err
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03:50:07 <Sgeo> orin, yes, and using it now
03:55:15 <zzo38> What is the shorthand for recording plays and movies and theater and stuff?
04:09:35 <zzo38> You cannot interrupt them in such a case if you miss something while writing!
04:10:15 <zzo38> It also needs to do without interrupting other people who watch the show.
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05:01:32 <newsham> orin: like thermal printers?
05:01:58 <newsham> most receipt printers do that, no ink required! (special thermal paper required)
05:03:29 <zzo38> I would like to learn to make up and then write in Theater Shorthand; that's what I would use shorthand for, because I don't need it for other purposes.
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05:14:41 <zzo38> Do you even know answer of any of my question at all, or anything a few thing a bit about it, or even to question the question (or to question the question the question the question)?
05:19:25 <shachaf> What is Theater Shorthand?
05:21:31 <zzo38> A new kind that we would have to make up, to use for recording live theater or movies without the use of any device other than pencil and paper and without disturbing any other people in audience or disturbing the actors
05:37:22 <newsham> why not just develop a photographic memory?
05:39:10 <zzo38> I want it written down
05:39:22 <zzo38> Such thing what they said and so on
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05:56:08 <zzo38> Do you know stuff about my other questions above though?
06:01:45 <zzo38> (Such as, how much fire you need and how large a hexagonal grid cell must be and how to automatically fill in the frequent words table and so on)
06:10:18 <orin> Hm... it would have to be a shorthand such that you can write in the dark.
06:11:05 <orin> Based on the test I did just now, it's not easy to write legibly without looking at what you're writing
06:12:54 <orin> the shorthand would need to be designed so you won't normally write over your previous line, or maybe the notepad would need some sort of texture so you can tell where you are writing
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07:29:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42616&oldid=42496 * Esowiki201529A * (+45) /* Quine */
07:30:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42618&oldid=42615 * Esowiki201529A * (+45) /* Quine */
07:34:22 <Jafet> I think a phonographic memory would work better for that.
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10:04:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42619&oldid=42572 * Esowiki201529A * (+57) /* Cheating Quines */
10:05:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42620&oldid=42619 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* Gibberish/Javascript */
10:07:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42621&oldid=42620 * Esowiki201529A * (+62) /* Gibberish */
10:09:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42623&oldid=42621 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Gibberish/JavaScript */ 上次少了一个空格！
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10:48:32 <oerjan> <boily> hezzo38. there exists conductive ink for drawing circuits and stuff. <-- i've been here too long, i read that as coinductive
10:53:13 <Jafet> The inkwell that never bottoms out
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11:50:57 <myname> wow, there is actually a funciton quine
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14:29:44 <mroman> Are there programs that print out their machine code?
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14:33:41 <mroman> if you write it dirctly in machinecode ok
14:34:38 <mroman> but I meant more like they'll output P where P is what a transpiler/compiler would produce given the original program
14:35:53 <oerjan> should in principle be easy, use the normal quine construction with "run a compiler" instead of "print"
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14:37:07 <oerjan> the compiler can be completely embedded if you want
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14:40:15 <b_jonas> oerjan: you don't even need that
14:41:10 <b_jonas> you could just write a non-quine that outputs a literal twice (with the second copy in the middle), compile, it, then change the literal to what the compiler has output, and iterate this a few times until it stabilizes
14:41:49 <b_jonas> it's even easier than in most languages because you probably don't need backslash stuff, the literal will appear literally in the executable
14:41:57 <oerjan> ...what guarantee do you have that it stabilizes
14:42:18 <b_jonas> (unless it's an executable in the silly MMIX object file format)
14:43:14 <oerjan> i don't think compilers usually embed literals in decimal?
14:43:39 <b_jonas> oerjan: once you know the length of the literal, the executable will remain the same except that when you modify the literal itself its verbatim copy will change in the executable. the length of the literal and the position where it has to be inserted in the output will change, but will converge quickly, and in any case, only have finitely many values.
14:44:03 <b_jonas> in theory it could fail to converge and get in a short loop, but you can just fuzz the program a bit to avoid that
14:44:43 <oerjan> i agree it _could_ work, provided you have a literal type that _does_ get literally embedded in the executable in the same form as in source
14:45:05 <oerjan> oh well i guess strings do
14:45:07 <b_jonas> oerjan: sure it does. just a global char d[] = {3,1,4,1,5,...}; will be
14:45:15 <b_jonas> just an array with constant initializer
14:45:35 <b_jonas> if you're worried the rest of the program is optimized for it too much, put it in a separate compilation unit
14:45:44 <oerjan> b_jonas: um, surely it doesn't get embedded as the same byte sequence "3,1,4,1,5"
14:46:03 <b_jonas> oerjan: exactly, it gets embedded as the raw bytes
14:46:03 <oerjan> the 3 in source is a 51 byte, you know
14:46:20 <b_jonas> which is what you have to print, because the point is to print not the C source, but the executable file
14:46:32 <b_jonas> you don't have to print _any_ part of the C source code at all
14:46:56 <b_jonas> (replace C with some other compiled language if you wish)
14:47:27 <b_jonas> (of course, you could write it directly in machine code too if you choose to)
14:53:04 <b_jonas> there are other ways to write such a quine:
14:53:28 <b_jonas> you could duplicate only the elf headers, and have the program read the code and constant data segments directly;
14:53:46 <b_jonas> or you could fuzz with the elf headers so the entire executable file is mapped, and then write that;
14:54:07 <b_jonas> or a DOS COM file already does that, so just making it write(1, 0x100, length of file); return; would work
14:54:46 <oerjan> in quines, that's called "cheating" hth
14:54:51 <b_jonas> that's probably around 20 bytes of a COM file, less if you golf agressively
14:55:35 <b_jonas> no it's not. it's cheating if you're reading the file, or otherwise accessing it in a way the program doesn't normally do so
14:56:02 <b_jonas> it is perfectly normal for an executable program to have portions of it mapped in memory (some of the data portions might _change_ by the time you access them though)
14:56:19 <oerjan> well in machine code...
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14:56:50 <oerjan> but this question is less interesting if the original language is that close to the machine.
15:08:23 <mroman> well accessing the machine code in memory is probably cheating yes
15:08:49 <mroman> also maybe it runs on a computer with code/data separated
15:08:52 <mroman> like a microcontroller
15:08:59 <mroman> and you don't have read/write access to it.
15:11:15 <lambdabot> CYQB 191500Z VRB06KT 30SM FEW040 08/M04 A3027 RMK SC1 SC TR SLP255
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18:02:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42624&oldid=42115 * BCompton * (+69) /* Rust */ Updated based on Rust v1.0.0 Beta, old code wouldn't compile.
18:02:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:BCompton]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42625&oldid=41530 * BCompton * (+7) /* Languages I've implemented */
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18:18:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Basilisk]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42626 * Vriskanon * (+1369) Created page Basilisk
18:19:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42627&oldid=42140 * Vriskanon * (+71) /* General languages */ Added Basilisk
18:23:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42628&oldid=42596 * Vriskanon * (+52) /* Vriskanon */ Added credit for Basilisk
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20:01:21 <zzo38> Also some machine codes are harvard, too
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22:27:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42629&oldid=42624 * BCompton * (+43) /* Rust */
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