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00:58:39 <fungot> boily: a wireworld computer around somewhere. ( sources.tar.gz sources/ comp/ scsh/ scheme/ gauche
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02:03:14 <boily> bonne nuitopia! boerjanne nuit!
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04:43:52 <Decim> http://hastebin.com/raw/payulupise
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10:50:13 <fizzie> Short fungot break: electricity thing.
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10:59:03 <mroman> Is <div/> valid HTML5?
11:00:04 <oren> um. maybe, but what would it be used for
11:00:38 <oren> ooh, colored rectangle?
11:02:10 <mroman> stuff like <div style="clear: both" />
11:02:23 <mroman> or <div style="width: 10px; background-color: red;" />
11:02:57 <int-e> apparently, "In HTML 5, <foo /> means <foo>"
11:03:42 <int-e> (from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3558119/are-self-closing-tags-valid-in-html5 )
11:04:24 <oren> http://trevorjim.com/a-grammar-for-html5/
11:06:49 <int-e> so reading further that only goes vor void tags, so <div /> should be invalid.
11:07:48 <int-e> So I don't know. Need to read the spec...
11:14:25 <mroman> that should work right?
11:14:40 <mroman> so every div is one pixel wide except if you overwrite it in style
11:15:31 <mroman> and then <div style="width:1px;"></div> causes browsers to misrender
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11:17:02 <mroman> it causes browsers to ignore the float:left
11:17:29 <mroman> div{float:left;height:1px;} together with <div style="width:1px"></div> works
11:18:02 <mroman> but adding width:1px; to the css in order to save space by not repeating style="width:1px" for all the divs causes the browser to ignore the float:left
11:30:45 <FireFly> uh, that sounds very weird
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11:33:42 <mroman> FireFly: compare http://mroman.ch/output_ok.html with http://mroman.ch/output_wrong.html
11:33:50 <mroman> the only difference is the width:1px; in the CSS
11:34:13 <mroman> (wrong uses width:1px; in the CSS, but overwrites it in every div inside style)
11:35:08 <FireFly> Yeah, because you're also making the container div 1px wide
11:35:16 <FireFly> which wraps all the pixel-y divs
11:35:39 <FireFly> you could make it <div id="container">...</div> and then style #container > div
11:36:40 <mroman> that get's me down to 260KB
11:36:48 <FireFly> I think a table styled to have no border/padding would be slightly neater semantically
11:36:50 <mroman> (by using default width:1px)
11:37:23 <FireFly> you can use colspacing to run-length compress, akin to how you're using width
11:38:13 <FireFly> But it probably wouldn't save you much space (might save you a little bit since <td> is smaller than <div>, but then again you need <tr>'s around each row instead of the float hackery then
11:38:36 <FireFly> Actually hm, I wonder if <td> isn't one of the elements with implicit close tags
11:39:06 <mroman> using <p> sadly doesn't work
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11:40:50 <FireFly> you could change background-color to just background
11:41:18 <FireFly> But then again, if your web server supports serving files compressed, none of this matters much at al
11:42:33 <FireFly> I suppose relying on JS or any existing image format would be out of the question?
11:43:01 <oerjan> today's xkcd: what kind of maniac puts vents in floors anyway
11:43:21 <mroman> it's gotta be pure HTML+CSS
11:43:43 <mroman> using JS would be much easier and shorter though.
11:43:56 <mroman> but not nearly as crazy as using HTML
11:45:51 <FireFly> You could histogram the elements after RLE and assign frequently-used colours dedicated classes since class="a" is shorter than style="background:#FF00FF"
11:46:13 <FireFly> You could use #F0F for e.g. #FF00FF which would help a tiny bit, too
11:46:59 <mroman> i'm reducing all colours to three char hexstrings already
11:47:09 <mroman> (not just FF00FF but all colors)
11:48:00 <FireFly> So you're not supporting full 24-bit colour output
11:48:21 <mroman> but this saves a few bytes :D
11:48:45 <mroman> but my linewise RLE already does that too
11:48:56 <mroman> a <div> per pixel is really a huge overhead :(
11:48:56 <FireFly> Oh, the RLE isn't lossless either?
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11:49:14 <mroman> It has a color-delta it accepts as "same color"
11:49:26 <mroman> if(colourdiff(clr, img.getRGB(x+o, y)) < 20) {
11:49:34 <FireFly> With table/tr/td you could use rowspan/colspan to do "RLE" in both directions, but then it becomes trickier
11:49:54 <FireFly> i.e. you could compress a similarly-coloured rectangle into one element in the source
11:50:34 <mroman> that would be tricky but doable
11:51:54 <FireFly> Hm, is bgcolor deprecated, I wonder
11:53:16 <Jafet> oerjan: "it sounds annoying" also seems to be an unusually mild reaction to dropping a phone into a vent
11:54:48 <oren> I have vnts on the floors in my house but they are 40 cm deep and you could easily grab your phone
11:55:37 <oren> is this suppose to be a bottomless vertical vent?
11:56:10 <Jafet> It empties into the black void of space
11:59:24 <FireFly> Well it's clearly not bottomless if they're contemplating pouring water and/or mercury into it hoping to get the phone back
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12:06:16 <Jafet> If you pointed a ring-shaped rocket engine down the rim of the bottomless vent, could the phone possibly be pushed back up the centre by aerodynamic pressure?
12:07:06 <oerjan> int-e: cake confirmed!
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12:12:39 <fizzie> Funnily enough, I had nothing to do with the first thing.
12:12:48 <fizzie> That was the auto-rejoin functionality actually working for once.
12:12:58 <mroman> vaccinations are feared to cause autism but weed is ok
12:13:17 <mroman> nobody knows that weed is linked to developing schizophrenia, psychosis among other illnesses...
12:14:24 <oerjan> "linked" could mean correlation, not causation hth
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12:15:09 <mroman> pretty much everything in psychiatry is correlation and statistics.
12:15:15 <Jafet> Hmm actually you can just point a jet engine through a funnel across the opening, lifting the phone out due to venturi effect
12:15:19 <mroman> because we no shit about it :)
12:15:36 <Jafet> (This may void the warranty)
12:16:40 <oerjan> Jafet: and dropping it down the vent in the first place doesn't?
12:18:19 <oerjan> i think if the vent were bottomless then the phone alarm would quickly cease to be a problem hth
12:20:09 <mroman> maybe turn off moving parts first.
12:26:54 <b_jonas> what I don't understand is how they can have a vent on the floor next to their bed in first place
12:40:01 <oren> My dad has one
12:40:34 <oren> Why can't they?
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12:56:20 <FireFly> The edit distance between 'oren' and 'oerjan' is too low :(
12:56:28 <FireFly> I doesn't help that weechat decided to make both of you green
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13:06:15 <oerein> Btw, I decided to make my ed mod actually check whther the syntax highlighter program exists
13:08:39 <oerein> because if it doesn't, then it gets confused and ouputs over 9000 ?
13:09:59 <Jafet> "These are your father's air vents"
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13:17:46 <oerjan> an elegant system for a more civilized age
13:18:13 <oerjan> they go straight down to the reactor core hth
13:23:35 <oerjen> oerein: change that to 9999 and you're good.
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14:00:07 <oerein> anyway I think the builders of this house were trying to save on ductwork
14:00:52 <oerein> if the furnace is in the basement, then having the vents on the floor reduces th4e distance
14:02:29 <oerein> although I think the house originally (in ～) had
14:02:58 <oerein> fireplaces in every room
14:04:31 <FireFly> I had to disable the nickchange/join/part/quit filter to see what was going on..
14:06:15 <oerjen> fungot: are you confused?
14:06:16 <fungot> oerjen: pwm is something you can go get dinner. thanks, dmg?
14:06:30 <oerjen> fungot: it's not dinner time yet.
14:06:30 <fungot> oerjen: implementing an event loop. :) heh.
14:07:08 <fungot> oerjen: i often do that; do other people?
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14:17:43 <oerjan> lessee if this works hth
14:17:47 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
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14:30:24 <oerjan> (you may have to leave the channel to change nick hth)
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14:37:26 <mroman> That's abuse of power!
14:37:35 <mroman> fungot: oerjan is being mean.
14:37:36 <fungot> mroman: i thought it looked really cool in the works natively sense, seeing how much else i know.
14:38:15 <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbbA9BhCTko
14:38:27 <oerjan> mroman: my brain had trouble remembering who was who hth
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14:41:20 <oerjan> oren: needs to work on her finnish hth
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14:53:26 <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OZyleriwRU
14:57:27 <oren> What happens if you try to write into a pipe whn the buffers full?
15:03:46 <oren> I wrote useless code to manually wait, which will never actually execute
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15:07:29 <oerjan> oren: there's probably a non-blocking write if you really want it....
15:08:05 <oerjan> this is C where everything can fail, isn't it.
15:08:14 * oerjan should leave this to the experts.
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15:37:10 <shachaf> When you say e.g. "an integer x s.t. x+2=4", " s.t
15:37:24 <shachaf> " stands for "sigma type".
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16:17:14 <oren> s.t.? subject to
16:17:47 <izabera> Linux notebook 4.0.1-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Apr 29 12:00:26 CEST 2015 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:18:07 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:18:43 <oren> Linux oren-X501A1 3.13.0-46-generic #79-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 10 20:06:50 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:19:09 <oren> Wait,why do I have x86-64 thrice
16:20:48 <oerjan> izabera: HackEgo's vps is pretty crappy
16:21:04 <HackEgo> Architecture: x86_64 \ CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit \ Byte Order: Little Endian \ CPU(s): 1 \ On-line CPU(s) list: 0 \ Thread(s) per core: 1 \ Core(s) per socket: 1 \ Socket(s): 1 \ Vendor ID: User Mode Linux \ BogoMIPS: 1744.89 \ Hypervisor vendor: VMware \ Virtua
16:21:04 <oerjan> (it also runs the wiki)
16:21:49 <oren> `` lscpu | tail
16:21:50 <HackEgo> Byte Order: Little Endian \ CPU(s): 1 \ On-line CPU(s) list: 0 \ Thread(s) per core: 1 \ Core(s) per socket: 1 \ Socket(s): 1 \ Vendor ID: User Mode Linux \ BogoMIPS: 1305.80 \ Hypervisor vendor: VMware \ Virtualization type: full
16:22:54 <oerjan> oren: pretty sure s.t. in that context means "such that"
16:23:31 <oren> I thought it meant subject to [the restriction that]
16:24:19 <oren> but such that does make sense
16:24:51 <oerjan> hm i suppose both work
16:25:04 <shachaf> the usual meaning is "such that" hth
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16:25:42 <izabera> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TDNH
16:28:07 <izabera> why doesn't this work? cat file | { head; tail; }
16:28:14 <izabera> this does: { head; tail; } < file
16:28:34 <izabera> in the former, tail doesn't print anything
16:28:51 <int-e> oerjan: please take note of https://clientarea.ramnode.com/announcements.php?id=394 and don't panic if lambdabot disappears for a bit!
16:28:53 <izabera> i know it has something to do with the fact that the latter is seekable but i don't really understand it
16:30:36 <int-e> izabera: head has already consumed all the input from stdin; there's nothing left for tail to read when it finally gets the chance.
16:31:07 <int-e> the second case is more interesting. let's see
16:31:22 <oerjan> int-e: A. AAA. AAAAA? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
16:31:45 <int-e> izabera: if the input is a file, 'tail' uses lseek to find its size...
16:31:55 <shachaf> Your explanation about seeking would seem to explain it?
16:32:38 <izabera> tail must know that it's a stream
16:33:39 <oerjan> < file doesn't make it fully a stream, i assume
16:33:51 <oerjan> the fd still points to a file rather than a pipe
16:34:12 <izabera> the other one, i don't >.<
16:34:46 <oerjan> while ... | ... produces a non-seekable stream
16:35:55 <int-e> izabera: Actually my explanation for the first case is wrong. It's bound to be buffering. (for me, `head` reads a 8kiB chunk)
16:38:07 <int-e> izabera: it even tries to fix it, note the first lseek call: http://sprunge.us/RaXi
16:38:47 <int-e> uh, I copied more that I wanted...
16:39:10 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/diOi is sufficient
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16:40:18 <int-e> `` seq 5000 | (head > /dev/null; tail)
16:40:28 <HackEgo> 4991 \ 4992 \ 4993 \ 4994 \ 4995 \ 4996 \ 4997 \ 4998 \ 4999 \ 5000
16:40:34 <int-e> `` seq 50 | (head > /dev/null; tail)
16:46:03 <oerjan> > length . unwords $ map show [1..4990]
16:46:25 <int-e> I erred on the safe side.
16:47:04 <int-e> > length . unlines $ map show [1..4990]
16:47:05 <oerjan> yes but you got ridiculously close
16:47:36 <oerjan> it doesn't look particularly round
16:48:54 <oerjan> `` seq 5000 | (head > /dev/null; cat)
16:48:55 <HackEgo> \ 1861 \ 1862 \ 1863 \ 1864 \ 1865 \ 1866 \ 1867 \ 1868 \ 1869 \ 1870 \ 1871 \ 1872 \ 1873 \ 1874 \ 1875 \ 1876 \ 1877 \ 1878 \ 1879 \ 1880 \ 1881 \ 1882 \ 1883 \ 1884 \ 1885 \ 1886 \ 1887 \ 1888 \ 1889 \ 1890 \ 1891 \ 1892 \ 1893 \ 1894 \ 1895 \ 1896 \ 1897 \ 1898 \ 1899 \ 1900 \ 1901 \ 1902 \ 1903 \ 1904 \ 1905 \ 1906 \ 1907 \ 1908 \ 1909 \ 1
16:49:19 <oerjan> > length . unlines $ map show [1..1860]
16:52:00 <int-e> > 999 + (8192 - (2*9 + 3*90 + 4*900) + 4) `div` 5 -- tedious
16:53:06 <int-e> > 999 - (2*9 + 3*90 + 4*900 - 8192) `div` 5
16:54:33 <int-e> > -(8192 + 9 + 99 + 999) `div` 5
16:54:47 <int-e> > -(-(8192 + 9 + 99 + 999)) `div` 5
16:58:53 <int-e> What's up with all those gates... this is getting silly. Tattogate, seriously?
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17:32:41 <oren> my favorite gate was shirtgate, in which a short with sexy ladies (drawn by a lady) caused a firestorm of people who said it was sexist
17:32:55 <oren> s/short/shirt/
17:34:49 <J_Arcane> stupid functional nerds and their hyperclever data structures i don't understand
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17:36:50 <oren> Eh, at least it's not perl where the data structure is implicitly created by usage
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17:43:50 <oerjan> J_Arcane: you find yourself trapped in a branch of a finger tree, indexed by an Endo monoid...
17:46:30 <oerjan> hm could you replace the monoid by a category? me and elliott once figured out how to replace the _contents_ that way.
17:47:08 <oerjan> also, if you do that, is it redundant to distinguish index and content?
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18:31:48 <oren> #define REM //
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18:56:55 <oren> hmm apparently comments happen before #defines
19:04:29 <oren> #define Um del(
19:04:53 <oren> #define del(x)
19:05:15 <oren> int x=3.14; Um, this is pi, lol
19:08:40 <J_Arcane> Clojure XML support sucks, and the zipper library that's supposed to make it 'easier' literally doesn't work.
19:13:56 <myname> oren: i'd say "lol" -> del( and "^^" -> )
19:14:28 <FireFly> I don't think you can define ^^ though
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19:20:25 <oren> could you not just use one of Java's XML thingies?
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20:18:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, see lambdabot message
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20:49:25 <S0lll0s> what OOP-ish concept would you guys recommend?
20:49:37 <S0lll0s> for easy implementation and a small feature set
20:49:49 <S0lll0s> I'm thinking something like Lua tables but I'm not sure yet
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21:07:08 <Vorpal> S0lll0s, not sure how they work. What about prototype based like js though?
21:07:23 <Vorpal> Or perhaps a more traditional vtable thing like C++
21:07:42 <Vorpal> I guess duck typing like python is quite easy too
21:07:53 <Vorpal> At least in a scripting language
21:08:44 <Vorpal> I think most concepts can be quite simple when scaled down and extra features are removed
21:08:53 <Vorpal> (you don't need python style metaclasses for example)
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21:17:58 <ais523> haven't seen you talk here for a while
21:18:19 <FireFly> Lua's tables are also prototype-based, but more "purely" so than JS
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21:30:25 <Taneb> Starting a local Haskell meetup group was a good idea
21:48:19 <S0lll0s> Vorpal: in Lua things are just hashtables
21:48:36 <S0lll0s> but you can set a few extra "options" like a hashtable to look up missing entries in
21:48:51 <S0lll0s> or something to call whenever a key is added
21:49:15 <S0lll0s> and then there is syntactic sugar for calling a function stored in a table with that table as the first parameter
21:53:08 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal Maybe it was some sort of a Dropbox fluke, it loaded for me now.
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22:28:15 <S0lll0s> I think I'll just go with the Lua style
22:28:32 <S0lll0s> also skipping arrays, Lua tables are the most simplistic I can think of
22:28:52 <S0lll0s> and anything more complex is easily integrated on top of them
23:04:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42775&oldid=42772 * 0x0dea * (+47) Document the # mirror.
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