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00:51:42 <oren> apparently there's a big boxing match right now
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01:31:34 <oren> how do I customize rxvt?
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01:51:13 <oren> WHY IS "Teal" pink!
01:55:51 <AndoDaan> Teal sounds blue, doesn't it. It does for me at least.
02:02:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jelehfish * New user account
02:06:49 <oren> I mean when I set a color in RXVT to be "Teal" it comes out as some sort of pink
02:07:18 <oren> "Dark Cyan" comes out correctly though
02:09:48 <oren> Apparently pink is the default when it can't parse a color
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04:18:18 <zzo38> Do you know if there is a way to load RDF graphs into tables or infoboxes for MediaWiki?
04:20:57 <Sgeo> WTF is wrong with my connection?
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04:24:21 <zzo38> Now I made up a pack of .XI instruments
04:29:22 <zzo38> But I used OpenMPT and it adds a lot of junk on the end of each file
04:31:17 <zzo38> Fortunately AmigaMML will ignore the junk on the end (and hopefully other programs can ignore it too), but still it uses up disk space
04:38:05 <zzo38> Is it possible to add a table to a Redmine wiki?
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04:39:06 <zzo38> Nevermind I figured it out
04:52:05 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes it can but also .xm and .xi and .mod and .s3m and .iti and .mptm
04:54:43 <quintopia> all the same things modplug tracker does
04:54:56 <quintopia> i have an old copy of an openmpt archive on my external hard drive
04:55:03 <quintopia> i don't think i ever tried to use it
04:57:54 <Sgeo> I think my network connection keeps sending corrupt bits or something
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05:21:08 <quintopia> zzo38: would you like another song to try out
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05:39:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42779&oldid=42633 * T.J.S.1 * (+879) Added ><>
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05:58:18 <zzo38> quintopia: To try out what, exactly? What are you asking about?
05:58:39 <zzo38> Also, OpenMPT is ModPlug Tracker
06:10:19 <zzo38> Which program have you used for .MOD/.XM/.IT/.S3M stuff? I want to make the compare table
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06:38:17 <zzo38> I did start to make up the compare table https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Compare_features but it is hardly complete by now; if you have information to contribute then please to do so.
06:39:06 <zzo38> For one thing, AmigaMML does not use a GUI and the other two listed so far require the GUI
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07:02:38 <quintopia> zzo38: MPT can also export mp3s iirc
07:03:22 <zzo38> Yes, you are right it can
07:03:47 <zzo38> I haven't added the section for rendering yet though
07:22:42 <quintopia> are you going to document the original Impulse Tracker
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07:25:41 <zzo38> I don't know much about it
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11:29:52 <FireFly> zzo38: could you make the documentation available in plaintext or HTML, in addition to .doc?
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11:45:10 <FireFly> Oh, it /is/ a plaintext document
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11:46:49 <FireFly> (the web server serves them as Word documents, though)
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12:20:49 <FreeFull> FireFly: Sounds like mimetype detection going wrong
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13:00:04 <oren> Is there a term for the particular format of plaintext that the RFC's are written in?
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13:01:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath/deadbeef]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42780&oldid=40110 * Rdebath * (+9) Small addition, get rid of silly license.
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13:58:48 <oerjan> "packing" may not be the right term to use here
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14:36:20 <int-e> oerjan: can you turn a non-pure (namely, it's not deterministic) function into a hole in the type system?
14:37:14 <int-e> oerjan: to make it concrete: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-safe-0.1/docs/Test-QuickCheck-Safe-Trusted.html
14:39:30 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, just like how UnsafePerformIO can pick a hole in the type system
14:40:51 <b_jonas> int-e: take a non-deterministic value of type (Either Int [Int]), then make it return a right list once, then when the caller is sure it's returned a list, make it return a left integer so the caller tries to dereference the integer as a pointer when it traverses the list
14:41:08 <b_jonas> it might not really work that way with Int, but that's the idea
14:43:27 <int-e> Maybe in the next version I'll just hide those functions away.
14:44:10 <int-e> @let import Test.QuickCheck.Safe.Trusted
14:44:11 <lambdabot> Test.QuickCheck.Safe.Trusted: Can't be safely imported!
14:44:11 <lambdabot> The package (QuickCheck-safe-0.1) the module resides in isn't trusted.
14:44:29 <b_jonas> behind an IO or other usual abstraction for nondeterminism?
14:44:46 <lambdabot> STestable prop => QuickCheck-2.8:Test.QuickCheck.Random.QCGen -> prop -> String
14:47:29 <int-e> b_jonas: The trouble is that putting things in IO makes SafeHaskell useless.
14:47:39 <Melvar> b_jonas: I’m not sure what you mean by “once the caller is sure it’s returned a list, make it return …”
14:48:00 <b_jonas> Melvar: yeah, that might not really work that way... I dunno
14:48:12 <Melvar> Is the caller going to call once to check and once to project?
14:49:09 <int-e> b_jonas: And that's what happened with @check: Test.QuickCheck is *safe*, but code in lambdabot would have to run quickCheck somehow. And it's possible to embed arbitrary IO actions in a QuickCheck Property.
14:49:36 <b_jonas> int-e: does it involve imprecise exceptions?
14:50:30 <int-e> It should not, the exceptions should all be synchronous (really, they should all be error calls).
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15:38:37 <int-e> oerjan: it should pretty much look as before
15:39:59 <oerjan> my guess is that ghc would probably be within its _rights_ to mess up anything that has a nondeterministic result, but probably doesn't do it to extent of evaluating it twice _and_ mixing information from the two branches...
15:40:39 <oerjan> but honestly i don't know.
15:42:34 <int-e> Sigh, that was a lousy bugreport. "QuickCheck-safe-0.1 does not compile" ... yes. Sure. That happens if you blindly relax the lower bound on a package.
15:43:57 <oerjan> "Your bug report does not compile" hth
15:44:41 <int-e> I did "fix" it in the end ... it turned out that QuickCheck-2.7 works fine except for one little function from 2.8 that I used.
15:46:00 <int-e> Well, hopefully. let me verify that...
15:46:16 <int-e> Dependencies are hard.
15:47:06 <int-e> (I tested 2.7.6 which by PVP might have additional functions compared to 2.7...)
15:47:40 <oerjan> Painful Versioning Policy
15:48:49 <int-e> API isn't the problem, safehaskell is...
15:49:01 <int-e> (Test.QuickCheck: Can't be safely imported!)
15:52:33 <int-e> 2.7.3 is the first working version...
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16:06:29 <oren> ooh this font has lowercase numbers
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16:07:55 <oren> like where 7 and 9 have lines that go down, and 6 goes up
16:09:23 <oren> Ok apparently they're supposed to be called "text figures"
16:11:41 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/568661
16:27:54 <Melvar> So, in German, the word “Variable” is a nouned adjective, and thus declines like an adjective. But some forms (the strong ones) are so rare I was genuinely confused when I encountered one. (Strong genitive plural, specifically.)
16:30:20 <Melvar> variable: Oh my, sorry, I really, truly hadn’t noticed you and your name here before I said that. That was prompted entirely by seeing the unusual form again.
16:30:40 <variable> Melvar: I learned something, so its all good
16:33:01 <Melvar> “exponentiell in der Anzahl Variabler” i.e. “exponential in the number of variables”, in reference to the running time of an algorithm.
16:33:25 <myname> "anzahl variabler" sounds plain wrong
16:33:37 <myname> "anzahl variablen" is what i would say
16:37:39 <Melvar> I would too, but apparently this is not universal.
16:39:12 <oerjan> i think logically it should be Variabler, because der modifies Anzahl, not Variabler. take it from this norwegian.
16:40:57 * oerjan now tries to check what norwegian does
16:41:57 <olsner> in english you would have "the number of variables" which would suggest using genitive case, but swedish does it like the quoted german (antalet variabler)
16:42:23 <oerjan> "antall variabler" 4370 hits"antall variable" 1170 hits
16:43:21 <oerjan> olsner: note that in swedish and norwegian the -r ending is the nounlike one, while in german it's the unusually adjective-like one
16:43:55 <int-e> myname: I would avoid the issue and say "in der Anzahl der Variablen"
16:44:35 <oerjan> oh and of course we scandinavians don't let the genitive get anywhere close of this
16:45:01 <Melvar> How about “in der Anzahl Veränderlicher”?
16:45:09 <olsner> hmm, so the variant with Variabler might be "exponential in the varying number" rather than "number of variables"?
16:47:03 <int-e> olsner: it's not a varying number, it's a number of [things that vary]
16:47:46 <int-e> At least I'd never read "varying number" tho mean anything but a number that varies in English.
16:48:51 <int-e> Melvar: Wegen Deiner [eigentlich: Deinetwegen, aber das geläufige "Wegen Dir" ist falsch.] haben wir jetzt eine Grammatikdiskussion, schäm dich. ;-)
16:49:26 <myname> int-e: i like "wegen deiner" :)
16:49:47 <Melvar> I’ve come up with that one myself independently I think.
16:50:47 <olsner> int-e: what would varying number be in german?
16:50:58 <int-e> olsner: eine veränderliche Zahl
16:51:05 <int-e> olsner: word order and capitalization matters here
16:52:49 <int-e> anyway, I'm done with my one day of hacking on lambdabot (only took two days)... what next...
16:53:15 <Melvar> Or “eine variable Anzahl”, to keep it as close as possible to the previous. “eine variable Anzahl Variable[nr]” is then “a variable number of variables”.
16:53:27 -!- variable has changed nick to constant.
16:53:54 <Melvar> constant: Getting annoyed at the hilights?
16:54:12 <constant> Melvar: the rate of highlights in this channel and others yeah
16:54:17 <Melvar> Of course, the same problem arises with “Konstante”.
16:54:19 <constant> so I figured I'd pick a less common word
16:54:26 <int-e> @quote no.variables
16:54:26 <lambdabot> cjs says: I have to explain this shit to people. I mean, I start out right, "Hey, you know how you always have these bugs because what you thought was in the variable is not there?" And I get all of these nods of agreement. "Well, I've found a new language that solves that problem." Audience: "Ooooh! How?" Me: "There's no variables!" And then
16:54:26 <lambdabot> they all start moving away from me slowly....
16:55:27 <Melvar> A stack-based language or what was that about?
16:55:30 <int-e> . o O ( konstante Verwirrung Konstanter )
16:55:35 <int-e> Melvar: Haskell, actually.
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16:57:36 <int-e> . o O ( Das Ergebnis sind konsternierte Konstanten. )
16:57:40 <Melvar> Oh, so the described problem is a variable having been unexpectedly mutated or unexpectedly not mutated?
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16:58:18 <int-e> Melvar: Yes. It's a memorable quote and in light of variable is now known as constant it felt appropriate :)
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17:00:58 <int-e> how about some food...
17:01:07 <int-e> oerjan: have you eaten yet?
17:01:45 <int-e> That was re: <oerjan> i seem to be procrastinating eating again <-- (I know what that feels like)
17:04:55 <oren> @quote constant
17:04:55 <lambdabot> Dickie says: Janeway constantly frustrated me. I would have had a difficult time under her leadership.
17:05:27 <oren> @quote constant
17:05:27 <lambdabot> skew says: Swapping is just a constant factor
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17:16:10 <oerjan> int-e: no, planning for pizza in a while
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17:17:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: given that you tried to reverse engineer the elements of the BANCStar language from only a few samples, no implementation, maybe you want to try this similar language reverse engineering task:
17:17:23 <oerjan> so far the timing is right
17:17:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: reverse engineering R2's beep language in Darths and Droids, see http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=8454 for spoilers
17:17:49 <oerjan> (for that. it's horribly wrong for everything else, like buying groceries.)
17:18:25 <oerjan> b_jonas: hey stop that, i'm procrastinating reading that forum!
17:19:06 <oerjan> i might actually catch up to that thread soon, i've nearly caught up on the d&d main subforum
17:20:01 <oerjan> right now the immediate thing is to catch up on the actual _comics_ for today.
17:20:13 <oerjan> except there was this pizza thing ->
17:24:04 <Sgeo> Why is my network connection so terrible?
17:24:29 <Sgeo> Is there some large file somewhere that I can download and immediately see if it's corrupt?
17:24:59 <Sgeo> Like an online /dev/zero
17:27:04 <mitchs_> a lot of the time checksums are given when downloading large programs
17:27:21 <mitchs_> i mean, if that suits your purpose
17:27:25 <Sgeo> Well, Cygwin checksums keep failing
17:27:56 <Sgeo> But I want to see if it's really a fault on my end. And also something I can do on my phone to see if it's my computer or my network connection
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17:37:17 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, it's addictive
17:37:52 <b_jonas> I didn't mean to go into it deeply, so I only tried to figure out how numeric literals are expressed in that language,
17:38:25 <b_jonas> but that's led a bit far, eventually to why "laser" is a word ending in "-zz-zip" where "zip" means zero.
17:39:15 <b_jonas> now I'll have to reformat the corpus to a HTML page because the forum markup isn't enough
17:54:56 <oerjan> b_jonas: it might very well be that some words have more than one precise meaning
17:55:12 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, I think "bip" is ambiguous
17:55:30 <b_jonas> but "zip" actually means zero there
17:56:22 <b_jonas> oerjan: by the way, shellshear (who has created the puzzle) says “All beeps have a canonical meaning.”, interpret that however you want
17:56:33 <oerjan> but it could also mean "nothing"
17:58:16 <b_jonas> oerjan: the problem is that "zz" only occurs once more (as a separate word), in #1174, where "e-bap-dok-pop-zz-pikilip" gives the damage amount of the shock probe
17:58:38 <b_jonas> (the overcharged shock probe; normally it deals only 1d4)
17:59:05 <b_jonas> so I thought at first that "kipgidip-zz-zip" also referred to the damage dealt by the laser beam
17:59:13 <b_jonas> which confused me totally, because that doesn't make sense
17:59:17 <b_jonas> but it doesn't refer to the damage
18:01:12 <oerjan> well as i said i haven't got to the spoiler thread yet, nor have i tried to solve it myself
18:01:55 <oerjan> although i'm vaguely wondering how much of a conlanger shellshear is - is there any truly weird grammar here
18:02:12 <b_jonas> oerjan: there's no grammar present
18:02:20 <b_jonas> there are almost no grammatical marker words,
18:02:36 <b_jonas> and it's assumed the grammar structure is carried in the “inflections” of the beep tones
18:02:51 <b_jonas> which aren't shown in the comic
18:03:09 <b_jonas> specifically, Shellshear says “Correctly translating the beeps will result in a kind of pidgin. There is assumed to be some nuance in the in-game inflection of the beeps.”
18:03:26 -!- constant has changed nick to trout.
18:03:44 <b_jonas> and from the sentences that we understand correctly, it seems there are no grammatical markers, in particular, no sentence separator, and no "e" or "li" to separate verbs from nouns
18:05:10 <b_jonas> and I don't think there's anything marking subclauses either
18:08:09 <oerjan> of course all my previous encounters with the CIs' puzzles can be summed up as "htf can anyone solve these things"
18:10:12 <oerjan> ok maybe not the droidikar one but i didn't really get interested in that.
18:11:01 <HackEgo> CI is a confidential informant
18:11:09 <int-e> . o O ( `define CI is short for Constant Irritation. )
18:11:34 <int-e> (Google suggests Cursed Island)
18:12:30 <oerjan> `learn The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles.
18:12:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'ci': The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles.
18:13:27 <oerjan> `learn The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
18:13:28 <HackEgo> Learned 'ci': The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
18:14:59 <oerjan> nvd: i'm pretty sure this explains everything hth
18:19:07 <boily> I thought Taneb invented himself.
18:19:20 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, and cube root of five genders. (See also: tanebventions)
18:19:29 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, and this sentence.
18:20:20 <oerjan> of course we've no proof Taneb _isn't_ one of the CIs, he's admitted to australian citizenship already.
18:23:01 <oerjan> also it is pretty well established that taneb came here via the IWC forum.
18:23:16 <b_jonas> oerjan: no no no, you're getting it wrong.
18:23:51 <b_jonas> oerjan: the CIs, namely at least DMM and shellshear are designing sadistic hard to solve puzzles
18:23:54 <int-e> oerjan: lost without context, nothing unusual
18:24:03 <b_jonas> but this one is worse, because Shellshear says
18:24:12 <oerjan> int-e: http://www.darthsanddroids.net/faq.html hth
18:24:25 <b_jonas> “The language is not a puzzle per se. I haven't evaluated how easy it is to solve, except to note what was necessary for Ben to work out.”
18:24:43 <b_jonas> shellshear also has't originally created Droidikar as a puzzle
18:24:53 <b_jonas> which is why there are some unguessable card names in it
18:24:57 <b_jonas> for which he had to give hints
18:25:07 <oerjan> you mean that explains how i managed to guess _any_ of the card hth htht
18:25:12 <b_jonas> if it was a puzzle, he'd have deliberately made all the cards guessable
18:25:37 <oerjan> *+actually working script
18:25:40 <b_jonas> sure, some card names like Tattooine and R2-D2 are obvious
18:26:25 <b_jonas> also, I think DMM has helped making the hints for Droidikar so it's more solvable
18:26:42 <b_jonas> but he might not have done so here
18:26:48 <int-e> oerjan: ah, that explains CI. Significant overlap with http://puzzle.cisra.com.au/credits.php ... which is where "CI puzzles" somehow led me.
18:26:56 <boily> quintopia: quinthellopia. even though being Tanebly invented is a great honour, I prefer to remain uninvented hth
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18:27:29 <b_jonas> which CI do you supposed Taneb is by the way?
18:27:57 <oerjan> int-e: also (GOD GOOGLE WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MUNGE URLS) http://puzzle.cisra.com.au/
18:28:24 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, those are the puzzles DMM creates as solvable in theory but damned hard
18:29:09 <b_jonas> I might be able to convince zzo38 though, he does sufficiently crazy things like this
18:29:33 <oerjan> b_jonas: taneb would obviously be an unlisted undercover CI, dug
18:29:48 * oerjan considers lashing his keyboard
18:29:56 <b_jonas> hmm, there's a photo of the CIs somewhere, let me check that
18:30:09 <int-e> oerjan: It doesn't help that CI means "Corporate Identity" and "Continuous Integration" as well.
18:30:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:30:27 <int-e> The former could reasonably be pluralised.
18:30:38 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin.
18:33:32 <b_jonas> ah here, http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3218.html links to it
18:34:20 <b_jonas> only six people, so no secret undercover member
18:35:27 <oerjan> int-e: as a mathematician you should be ashamed of not being able to pluralize the latter hth
18:35:55 <oerjan> now go invent a meaning and write a paper on them twh
18:36:30 <oerjan> boily: that would have been *+h, not *h hth
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18:36:56 <int-e> oerjan: A mathematician, hmm.
18:37:43 * int-e is in a corner of theoretical computer science that does mostly logic and discrete mathematics. Integrals rarely come up.
18:38:18 <copumpkin> int-e: how about ends and coends??
18:38:25 <oerjan> well invent a meaning that's CS-related, then.
18:38:53 <int-e> copumpkin: abstract nonsense is often too abstract for me
18:39:21 * int-e hasn't grokked adjoint functors
18:39:45 <shachaf> adjoint functors are the best
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18:40:14 <oerjan> int-e: but if you used them for integrating averages you could say they were ends to a mean hth
18:41:41 * int-e wonders how to best PUNish oerjan.
18:43:06 <oerjan> i did feel like reaching a new level there
18:44:08 <oerjan> boily: adjoint functors are simple you just need to learn how to split monads hth
18:46:51 <oerjan> try this handy monad accelerator here. keep it away from profunctors.
18:55:31 <boily> this feels like splitting the atom. can be used for good, but should be left to professionals with a good sense of ethics.
18:57:02 <quintopia> boily: you can't be uninvented. you already exist and knowledge of your existence is widespread
18:58:05 <boily> damn. I can't counter that.
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19:01:01 <oerjan> boily: so basically, you've been decohered.
19:01:03 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
19:01:04 <int-e> you can invent similar people and sow confusion that way
19:01:26 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:01:48 <int-e> . o O ( I'd /nick booly if there'd be a way to limit it to just this one channel. )
19:01:53 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
19:02:14 <shachaf> take inspiration from copumpkin
19:02:26 <boily> int-e: don't you dare steal my identity you evil twin!
19:02:49 <int-e> copumpkin: it wouldn't be stolen, merely blurred.
19:03:15 <oerjan> copumpkin: i see you _still_ haven't started using pro- or bi-, this just won't do hth
19:03:28 <shachaf> p. sure i've seen propumpkin around hth
19:03:31 <copumpkin> it just usually doesn't get that far
19:04:26 <boily> I think I saw contrapumpkin once.
19:04:36 <copumpkin> yeah, contrapumpkin is fairly common
19:04:38 <lambdabot> bucky says: The invention of the game of limited and terminal local awareness that we call "life" is in contradistinction to the concept of eternally total cosmic knowledge, intellect, and wisdom, whose totality of comprehensive comprehension would answeringly cancel out all questions and all problems, which would result in the eternally timeless,
19:04:38 <lambdabot> sublime 0=0 equation of absolute perfection.
19:04:40 <copumpkin> especially when I'm on a bus with spotty wifi
19:05:03 <int-e> fungot: help me out there, please
19:05:04 <fungot> int-e: like mos docs.... whats up with that)
19:05:06 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
19:05:46 <fungot> olsner: perhaps you could tell your nickname when registering it. if you translate your until to a letrec?
19:05:47 <HackEgo> 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 13) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 14) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. plea
19:05:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -q oer*!*@*.
19:06:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
19:06:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:06:31 <oerjan> our ban list is getting scarily long
19:07:26 <shachaf> oerjan: why were you +q twh
19:08:18 <int-e> how do we know that -q oer*!*@* actually removed anything?
19:08:55 <shachaf> i suspect it didn't because oerjan was talking earlier
19:09:31 <oerjan> shachaf: people were playing around with confusing nicks the other day so i decided to abuse my powers
19:09:57 <oerjan> shachaf: also i made an exemption for myself, naturally
19:10:04 <int-e> boily: "quiet" .. people can join and listen but their messages are blocked
19:10:37 <oerjan> interestingly anyone can see the +b and +q lists, but not the +e exemption list...
19:11:04 <oerjan> shachaf: /mode #esoteric +e $a:oerjan
19:11:17 <oerjan> excepts my account from all other bans
19:12:33 <oerjan> it's sort of redundant when you're an op, usually...
19:13:27 <boily> oerjan is a devious op. a devop.
19:24:14 <b_jonas> typical. a nice simple mathematical question that I understand, answered by a half page long algebraic technobabble of which I don't understand a word. => those who are
19:24:24 <b_jonas> => http://mathoverflow.net/q/204464/5340
19:27:13 <zzo38> I did not intend to including nonfree software in my list of compare feature and I do not know if Impulse Tracker and Fast Tracker are now free software or not; I don't expect it to be but I don't know?
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19:28:30 <boily> zzo38: what about milky?
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19:29:00 <boily> (hmm... milky tracker seems dead now.)
19:29:27 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
19:29:35 <zzo38> boily: I did put Miltky Tracker on the list though
19:30:24 <zzo38> If you want to look, it is: https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Compare_features
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19:31:12 <boily> milky has built-in synthesis.
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19:32:04 <zzo38> O, it does? How does its built-in synthesis work? Let me see the documentation again
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19:33:48 <boily> unless we're talking about different types of built-in syntheses. I played with it a long time ago, trying my hand at freeform drawn waves ^^
19:33:59 <boily> (lots of distortion and clicks, but it works quite well.)
19:36:26 <zzo38> O, freeform drawing now I put another column (not yet saved)
19:41:39 <b_jonas> zzo38: (repeating from two and a half hours ago) given that you tried to reverse engineer the elements of the BANCStar language from only a few samples, no implementation, maybe you want to try this similar language reverse engineering task:
19:41:58 <b_jonas> reverse engineering R2's Pating language in Darths and Droids, see http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=8454 for how much people have figured out so far
19:49:52 <zzo38> boily: What I meant is in AmigaMML you can type such thing as @0 = "# L30" to make a square wave with 15/16 duty, or you can type something like @2 = "+54A4G+34A4H-P2A2G" 1000 to create a sample with FM synthesis, or whatever
19:52:08 <boily> ah, the programmative kind. not quite the same indeed.
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19:54:06 <b_jonas> wait, is that "+54A4G+34A4H-P2A2G" a BASIC PLAY string?
19:54:32 <b_jonas> hmm no it's not, that couldn't start with "+" I think
19:55:16 <zzo38> No it isn't; in AmigaMML if the instrument filename starts with + then it is FM synthesis; it uses its own syntax
19:56:41 <zzo38> You can also start a instrument filename with # for a simpler synthesizer where you can use "L" for square waves, "N" for saw waves, and "V" for triangle wave; you can combine multiple waveforms added together too, with different frequencies; the only option the example above uses is the duty though.
19:57:39 <zzo38> But if it does not start with one of the special symbols then the text in the quotation marks is instead the name of a instrument file, which is either Amigasam or .XI format.
19:58:36 <b_jonas> oh dear, this is getting leaning toothpicky: I'm matching bbcode with perl regexen
20:00:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: did you modify that description of that binary story format that you showed us last time?
20:00:30 <zzo38> Do you mean the OASYS format? I do not remember
20:00:33 <oren> Idea: regex dialect in which the widechar versions of characters are used
20:01:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know what its name was
20:02:39 <zzo38> It isn't a particularly good VM, but previously there was no documentation, and still it should be easy to compile OASYS binaries into native code or other VMs
20:03:13 <oren> so the above would become /［／b］/
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20:04:40 <zzo38> oren: Or another way, use the high bit set for actual character matching (including the "b"); or possibly the bitwise complement; use a editor that support displaying such by reverse video
20:05:24 <oerjan> b_jonas: psst if you're using actual perl then you can use a different character than /
20:05:37 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, I'm actually using a different delimiter instead of /
20:05:49 <b_jonas> and it's needed in replacement text too
20:06:17 <oerjan> do you actually need \]
20:06:54 <b_jonas> at least either you need "${a}[b]" or "$a\[b]" in replacement text because otherwise perls tries to parse it as the interpolation of an array element
20:06:58 <zzo38> b_jonas: Look at the AmigaMML documentation to learn how the command is working; also if you have account you can try to fix the wiki by yourself
20:06:59 <b_jonas> oerjan: no, probably not \]
20:07:09 <oerjan> hm wasn't there something...
20:07:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: it's on the wiki? I thought it was on your webpage
20:07:26 <zzo38> It his this wiki https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Compare_features
20:07:27 <b_jonas> and you asked for comments and then I gave some
20:07:36 <zzo38> It is a Redmine wiki.
20:07:51 <b_jonas> I meant the story language description
20:07:57 <zzo38> That's just a text file though
20:08:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: can you ack what I said about the Pating language thing though?
20:09:23 <zzo38> Unfortunately I don't know; just use what is already written for now.
20:09:50 <oerjan> b_jonas: ah it's \Q...\E
20:10:23 <b_jonas> oerjan: I had that too in the code, for the intended purpose
20:10:43 <b_jonas> but that's unrelated to the bbcode thing
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20:13:27 <oerjan> b_jonas: well you could do \Q[/b]\E , no?
20:13:50 <b_jonas> oerjan: technically yes, but that's not usually better than \[/b]
20:14:18 <b_jonas> and you have to close the \Q for regex meta-characters like .*
20:14:53 <b_jonas> I think you can also do m"[[]/b]"
20:17:02 <Melvar> What’s the one above supposed to represent?
20:20:15 <oerjan> Melvar: i'm pretty sure the first one is there on a quota for disabled people
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20:23:33 <oerjan> oren: you need at least two extra spaces in front due to the nick length difference
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20:24:15 <Melvar> (Which is why it looks wrong in clients that right-align nicks.)
20:24:35 <Melvar> (Unless the instigator has a length-6 nick.)
20:24:43 <oren> it depends on the client?
20:25:01 <oerjan> zzo38 probably sees something entirely insane
20:25:17 <oerjan> (in fact so do i in the web logs)
20:25:23 <zzo38> Well, it can also depend on things other than the nick, and on how the CTRL+C codes are interpreted
20:25:23 <int-e> I need to re-read my Sherlock Holmes...
20:25:37 <oren> I thought < oren> was just part of the message
20:25:56 <b_jonas> hehe, that's like http://www.xkcd.com/276/
20:25:57 <int-e> (The Adventure of the Dancing Men)
20:26:16 <zzo38> Even if your nick is length 6, the stuff after the nickname before the message can be of a different length.
20:26:36 <oerjan> oren: nope, in irc syntax it's really something like :oren PRIVMSG :I thought < oren> was just part of the message
20:27:03 <b_jonas> oerjan: there's a !user@host and a #channel in there
20:27:04 <oren> zzo38: what stuff after the nick before the massage?
20:27:05 <Melvar> :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought < oren> was just part of the message
20:27:12 <b_jonas> and the !user@host is VERY varying length
20:27:19 <b_jonas> in the sense that it can be very short or very long
20:27:21 <zzo38> oren: The username, hostname, command, and channel name.
20:27:26 <b_jonas> (I can look up exact limits)
20:27:27 <oerjan> b_jonas: i was so unsure about the !user@host that i forgot all about the #channel
20:27:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: the channel matches though
20:27:51 <zzo38> (Although the command and channel name will always match anyways)
20:28:08 <b_jonas> (oh, the channel is also variable length, and the limits on this stuff are also wildly varying among irc networks)
20:29:20 <b_jonas> it's crazy because the length of the nick!user@host #channel changes how long lines can be transmitted without truncation like crazy
20:29:51 <oren> ＾what is that pink Melvar then?
20:30:43 <b_jonas> Melvar: no, that would be stupid. myndzi could perhaps reply with a notice though, but as you see he doesn't
20:30:53 <Melvar> oren: You mean the notice? That’s NOTICE instead of PRIVMSG.
20:31:09 <Melvar> (I don’t know what your client colors pink.)
20:31:10 <b_jonas> I wonder, does myndzi sometimes trigger other bots?
20:31:43 <j-bot> b_jonas: \o> <o) \o> <o) \o> <o) \o> <o) \o> <o) \o> <o) \o> <o) \o>
20:32:02 <j-bot> b_jonas: \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_
20:32:07 <oerjan> b_jonas: too long line
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20:32:12 <j-bot> b_jonas: \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o) \o_ -o)
20:32:35 <oren> those penises don't trigger hackego to say \: command not found
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20:32:36 <j-bot> b_jonas: _o/ <o) _o/ <o) _o/ <o) _o/ <o) _o/ <o)
20:33:13 <oerjan> oren: well they're not on the beginning of a line. but i also think myndzi fills everything with so much control codes it wouldn't trigger any way.
20:33:18 <b_jonas> oren: what? isn't hackego's trigger the backtick? I haven't seen backtick used by myndzi
20:33:38 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
20:33:38 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c |
20:33:38 <myndzi> >\ c.c /'\ /'\| | /< c.c /'\ | |\| |\ c.c /|
20:33:40 <b_jonas> oerjan: oh yeah, lambdabot cleverly uses some invisible non-ascii stuff at the start of its replies
20:33:59 <oerjan> b_jonas: so do HackEgo and EgoBot
20:34:19 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
20:34:23 <oren> oh crap now I know what's wrong with this font. I cant tell between ` and '
20:36:58 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/568793
20:37:45 <b_jonas> (though I don't bolt it, just use different colors)
20:37:54 <b_jonas> (bold might not look good)
20:38:04 <b_jonas> (it's fake bold, no bold variant of the font)
20:38:16 <b_jonas> (also, thanks for testing)
20:39:05 <oerjan> that's a very penisy font you've got there.
20:39:52 <oerjan> it exaggerates those chars a lot more than this new courier thing
20:39:53 <oren> the ` and ' chars make better penises than in most other fonts
20:40:14 <b_jonas> oerjan: my font exaggerates most chars.
20:40:17 <b_jonas> not only the penissy ones.
20:42:16 <oren> O0o Il1|7 ^~ S5 Z2
20:42:33 <b_jonas> oren: B8 was the last straw for me
20:42:41 <b_jonas> I misread a hexadecimal number
20:44:21 <b_jonas> it gets funnier when you look at non-ascii characters that I distinguish with dots and protursions
20:44:42 <oren> I was using "unispace" today... It looks cool but doesn't work
20:46:20 <oren> capital alpha has an underdot
20:46:28 <b_jonas> and only basic greek (for math) and even that's very ugly
20:48:11 <oren> your german s thingy is not the same as beta
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20:50:22 <b_jonas> there's also |¦ and `'"“‟”‘‛’´˝′″ (ascii, then quotation marks, then standalone accents, then primes)
20:50:43 <b_jonas> oren: of course it's not. this isn't a cp437 font
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20:51:39 <b_jonas> oh, and ˈ the phonetic stress symbol
20:54:16 <b_jonas> and there's stuff like /∕¦|∣│\∖
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21:14:28 <b_jonas> boily: half of it is greek
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21:15:47 <Melvar> > var $ map toLower "PΡEΕ"
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22:37:37 <oren> What's up with sgeo?
22:38:07 <oren> his isp must suuuuck
22:38:24 <oerjan> is connection is up. then down. then up. then down. hth.
22:38:51 <Sgeo_> I think it's something in software.
22:39:06 <Sgeo_> A VM using a bridged connection works fine. A VM using NAT is not.
22:40:19 <Sgeo_> oren, please don't say that. I work for my ISP
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22:40:49 <oerjan> his isp must suck, and it's all his fault hth
22:41:04 * oerjan now whistles maniackally
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22:41:20 <SgeoPhone> This phone also connected through the same Wi-Fi
22:41:32 <oren> At last, the answer to THEN WHO WAS PHONE
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23:12:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42781&oldid=42776 * 0x0dea * (+1117) Add Brainfuck interpreter
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23:17:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EsoInterpreters]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42782&oldid=42571 * 0x0dea * (+514) Update EsoInterpreters
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23:26:01 <Somelauw> I have taken a look at some of the brainfuck algorithms on the wiki and I don't think this code works for when the divisor is either 0 or 1: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Divmod_algorithm
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