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00:04:38 <oerjan> <Taneb> Then can I think of the non-zero rationals as an infinite-dimensional module over the integers <-- yep (modulo the "positive")
00:05:27 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> Then can I think of the non-zero rationals as an infinite-dimensional module over the integers <-- yep (modulo the "positive")
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00:09:58 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Phantom_Hoover> are you being that guy who tries to get 100% <-- don't mind him, i used to be that guy hth
00:15:34 * oerjan still remembers the functional analysis exam where he possibly caused another person to fail by shifting the grades
00:16:40 <oerjan> or rather, by preventing them shifting the grades enough for her to pass
00:17:33 <oerjan> it was a very bimodal grade curve. me, and the rest.
00:18:59 <oerjan> i don't remember exactly what the grades were any more, though
00:20:33 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: any way that's the only thing i've ever done that i could possibly admit to falling under "defect strategy". and it was entirely unintentional, i just didn't notice like the rest that the exam was bloody hard...
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00:34:52 <orin> wait what am i doing
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00:49:22 * oerjan googles her name, looks like she's been teaching math teachers and is now doing a doctorate
01:02:40 <zzo38> This is example picture of how you might arrange in GUI the function of FM synthesis of AmigaMML in case of wanting to try different parameter and test it http://zzo38computer.org/img_17/fmsynthedit.png (the program that is actually written in the picture isn't so useful though since the "Play" function doesn't work, and it cannot load or save at all).
01:35:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42938&oldid=42937 * SuperJedi224 * (+67)
01:36:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42939&oldid=42938 * SuperJedi224 * (+17) /* Commands */
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01:49:12 <zzo38> How can I hack Pokemon Pinball so that if I do not win at any bonus stage then it is require to start over the first bonus stage next time instead of you can try the same one again?
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01:57:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42940&oldid=42939 * SuperJedi224 * (+54) /* A Java Interpreter */
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02:19:28 <Sgeo> Going to briefly disconnect from IRC soonish.
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02:25:14 <orin> looks like youv've joined before your other connection timed out
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02:55:04 * oerjan looks up Decim's screetch in a birdwatch handbook
02:55:51 <oerjan> clearly the rare Decimus Desparatus
02:58:15 <oerjan> still following the current slow downward trend hth
02:58:58 <oerjan> also, somehow reading a paintball furry comic
02:59:50 <oerjan> (afaict it started out only slightly furry but kept escalating because the author cannot draw human faces)
03:02:31 <oerjan> (somehow = because phil foglio blogged about it, fwiw)
03:03:32 <Sgeo_> ...how is this thing installing ANYTHING
03:03:43 <Sgeo_> I thought the thing I booted into was just to allow it to... boot into a thingy
03:03:55 <Sgeo_> But it's also installing it without even looking at the other file I downloaded
03:04:26 <Sgeo_> Why is there a 10 minute countdown to restart
03:05:50 <oerjan> (also there are traces of mad science which i'm hoping will pick up)
03:12:09 <Sgeo_> The UI is giving me a 404. Which is shocking because it means that it both exists and is not working.
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03:55:27 <Jafet> The bootloader exists to boot into the sockloader
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07:06:24 <oerjan> i suppose it did http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb183.html
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07:57:25 <zzo38> Is 53 millirems per day a large amount?
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08:13:55 <int-e> Yeah, something like 1/3 to 1/6 of the average annual dose from natural sources, but per day.
08:14:18 <zzo38> Yes I thought it too from looking in Wikipedia but don't know a lot about this kind of stuff.
08:14:48 <zzo38> But maybe question need to be rewritten a bit: Is 53 millirems per day a large amount for a raccoon?
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08:16:58 <int-e> It's not *extremely* high. Taking numbers from Canada, the annual dose limit for nuclear energy workers is 50mSv/year, so they could work there for 94 days a year (possibly the whole year if a day is 24 hours but they only work for 8 hours a day)...
08:18:50 <zzo38> Wikipedia says they don't count all of the 24 hours in a day when calculating these radiations limits
08:19:10 <int-e> It doesn't say that exactly.
08:19:43 <int-e> It says that there is such a convention, using 8h = 1day. So one needs to check whether it was used.
08:20:06 <zzo38> How to check if it was used?
08:20:22 <zzo38> Sometimes they might not always tell you if it is or not?
08:20:25 <int-e> How should I know. I don't even know where you got that number from.
08:20:53 <int-e> "if a day is 24 hours" was alluding to that convention.
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08:22:00 <zzo38> I looked at the link oerjan posted and then I put cast; it says there they emit 53 millirems per day, so, I try to learn how it mean by Wikipedia
08:28:55 <int-e> zzo38: I'll probably regret asking this but what do you mean by "put cast"?
08:29:20 <zzo38> I pushed the link for cast
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08:29:54 <zzo38> Because that's what it says.
08:32:43 <zzo38> How often will you try to invent one thing but you actually invented something else instead? I think in the past many people have done similar things a bit too
08:33:19 <int-e> I suspect that emitting radiation is a rather different matter from receiving it from external sources (since Sv is really about radiation that (typically) affects a large volume homogeneously). So I'm not sure what that even means.
08:33:36 <int-e> Anyway, I click or follow links. I don't put them; the web site author did that.
08:34:10 <zzo38> I meant pushed; I made a mistake
08:37:32 <zzo38> How many different ways have people tried to explain use of monads in Haskell programming?
08:38:26 <zzo38> It seems to me that it might help to explain in terms of list comprehensions, especially if you use other programming languages with list comprehensions too
08:38:48 <int-e> too many. enough to prompt this great meta-tutorial https://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuition-and-the-monad-tutorial-fallacy/
08:39:11 <int-e> (and probably others; is there any meta-meta-monad-tutorial?)
08:39:42 <int-e> zzo38: I've read that earlier versions of Haskell had Monad comprehensions.
08:40:34 <zzo38> Actually I think GHC probably still does? Nevertheless it isn't really what I was trying to point out.
08:42:04 <zzo38> I meant learning by list comprehensions in general whether in Haskell or other programming languages; you can easily see join/fmap/return operation on a list structure and then see how bind is related to such, and then see how such operation can be made for other kind of monads too such as IO monad.
08:43:04 <Taneb> int-e, that still exists as a GHC extension
08:43:08 <int-e> (In my view the real problem is that a Monad by itself accomplishes nothing. This can be proved by considering the type Vanish a = Gone which has a law-abiding monad instance, but is useless. So rather than explaining monads, you *have* to exhibit useful examples and extract some common structure.)
08:43:20 <Taneb> Although I believe it was removed from the language proper in Haskell 1.4 or so
08:44:29 <int-e> They were gone, then added back: https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/4370
08:45:25 <zzo38> Yes, it isn't so useful but still it is a monad; I called it data Finalize instead of Vanish due to mathematical reasons but that still it work. But that's why I suggested examples by list comprehensions it explain by the useful examples.
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10:56:00 <Phantom_Hoover> why they can never just assume you know what a group is after 3 years of a maths degree is beyond me
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11:35:48 <Jafet> They're grizzled old lecturers, perhaps they do know better.
11:36:20 <Phantom_Hoover> >implying the average lecturer knows what they're doing
11:37:35 <Taneb> Man, your maths lecturers must really suck
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11:38:55 <Taneb> My maths ones have mostly been alright
11:38:59 <Phantom_Hoover> in the unlikely event that you ever encounter this guy trying to teach, run and don't stop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Reid
11:39:07 <Taneb> The computer science ones have been more of a mixed bag
11:40:10 <Taneb> Including one Doctor Bors who lives up to his name
11:40:38 <Taneb> I think the artificial intelligence module was more the fault of the module than the lecturers, though
11:41:15 <Taneb> It was the kind of module where we had to write the exam answers in 4 different booklets because they were going to be marked by 4 different people
11:42:19 <FireFly> I've had one particularily maths lecturer. I attended the first two or three lectures, but couldn't really hear what the lecturer said, which kinda defeats the point of giving a lecture
11:42:26 <Jafet> The classic grammar school of AI.
11:42:59 <Taneb> That module had like no focus at all...
11:43:47 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, they don't have complete control over it, though
11:43:56 <FireFly> Our mandatory AI course was neat. We got to learn about HMMs and predict and identify birds in a duck hunt-inspired game
11:44:10 <Taneb> FireFly, man, that sounds so much better than ours
11:44:55 <Phantom_Hoover> i had an algorithmic graph theory module last year where it definitely seemed like the 3 lecturers were each teaching their own distinct third of a module
11:45:29 <Phantom_Hoover> that was the one where i spent half the exam with the invigilator going back and forth between them and me because they'd fucked up one of the questions
11:46:52 <Phantom_Hoover> then they put up a correction in the last 30 minutes of a 3 hour exam and just carried on like it was nothing
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13:09:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42941&oldid=42940 * SuperJedi224 * (+847)
13:10:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42942&oldid=42941 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* Commands */
13:10:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42943&oldid=42942 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* A Java Interpreter */
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13:29:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42944&oldid=42943 * SuperJedi224 * (+77) /* Example programs */
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13:31:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42945&oldid=42944 * SuperJedi224 * (+8)
13:32:38 <orin> they can't assume you know anything, becuase (in the mind of the lecturer) "Those other morons won't ave taught it to them proper!"
13:32:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42946&oldid=42945 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* Print 1 if input is "heads", -1 if input is "tails" (16 bytes) */
13:33:55 <lambdabot> Plugin `metar' failed with: connect: does not exist (Connection refused)
13:33:57 <orin> I have been taught what a 2-complement integer is, at least 4 times
13:34:06 <boily> int-e: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
13:35:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42947&oldid=42946 * SuperJedi224 * (+4)
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13:40:05 <orin> luckily my father mainly teaches low level courses, like introductory calculus
13:40:42 <orin> ah who am i kidding, he has to go over how to add and multiply fractions pretty much every year
13:40:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42948&oldid=42947 * SuperJedi224 * (+176)
13:42:43 <orin> in his case then, "those other morons" are our high school system and they never do teach much right
13:43:59 <boily> hellorin. I concur with the high school moroninessitude this side of the border.
13:45:40 <orin> In english class I studied Romeo and Juliet 3 years in a row
13:45:50 <boily> be back in a few...
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13:51:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[APLBAONWSJAS]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42949 * Vriskanon * (+1283) Added language APLBAONWSJAS. Entire page finished, save for potential minor mistakes in spelling or wikification.
13:52:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42950&oldid=42791 * Vriskanon * (+19) /* Joke Languages */ Added APLBAONWSJAS
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13:53:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42951&oldid=42656 * Vriskanon * (+71) /* General languages */ Added APLBAONWSJAS
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14:08:59 <mroman_> orin: and what did you learn from studying it?
14:09:23 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 14h 19m 53s ago: <mroman_> I tend to view everything after a <-- hm?
14:09:43 <mroman_> @tell oerjan Invalid HTML Tag!
14:32:24 <orin> mroman: I learned that italian family feuds were just as messed up in the 16th century
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14:57:06 <boily> int-e: int-hello. what are you doing to that poor bot...
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15:02:26 <lambdabot> CYQB 161400Z 07006KT 30SM FEW060 OVC081 15/05 A3013 RMK SC1AC7 SLP205
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15:39:13 <lambdabot> LOWI 161520Z 03004KT 320V120 9999 FEW045 SCT075 21/12 Q1022 NOSIG
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16:29:27 <int-e> @poll-results should-lambdabot-be-more-polite
16:29:27 <lambdabot> Poll results for should-lambdabot-be-more-polite (Open): maybe=4, no=5, yes=3
16:30:46 <shachaf> @vote should-lambdabot-be-more-polite yes
16:35:28 <FireFly> @vote should-lambdabot-be-more-polite maybe
16:35:44 <lambdabot> I KAISER ROLL?! What good is a Kaiser Roll without a little COLE SLAW
16:35:45 <int-e> you /can/ vote privately you know :P
16:36:04 <int-e> it's not really about @yow
16:36:41 <lambdabot> Source not found. It can only be attributed to human error.
16:39:56 <shachaf> int-e: Why vote privately when I can vote publicly?
16:43:45 <int-e> Haskell has a lot of the piratish things, arrays, arrows, but does it have a parrot? (And why haven't I spotted the "arr" in "parrot" before...)
16:47:18 <shachaf> Does this have anything to do with Haskell in particular, or are you just saying that "parrot" has "arr" in it?
16:47:34 <shachaf> Are you talking about the Parrot VM?
16:47:59 <int-e> I'm talking about words containing 'arr'.
16:48:34 <shachaf> "carrot" also has "arr" in it, as do "embarrassed", "sparrow", and "warrior"
16:49:50 <int-e> carrion, warren, barren, marrow...
16:51:08 <orin> (Meat barrel (chestnut) <#1>)
16:52:08 <int-e> quarrel is another nice one. (goes well with marriage)
16:53:08 <boily> fungot: any arr-inspiration?
16:53:09 <fungot> boily: mr president, commissioner, half a million people are heading for a difficult winter. i have little faith in the dogmas of the stability pact, stipulates a framework which allows latitude for weighing up interests, from which the commissioner has dealt to some extent by the difficulties women face unfortunately persist. women are also human limits. at that time too, since that is what she means. that is why it is essenti
16:55:24 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
16:55:40 <fungot> Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
16:55:52 <int-e> fungot: you don't say
16:55:52 <fungot> int-e: this strange law is not to say that all true men do care; such as union appeals fnord true union men to yield to conviction, that it is parliamentary and decorous to urge the danger arising from popular discontent as an argument for severity; but that it was the first. we have a right to a fair and honourable sample of the spirit of the old banner is flying, by that banner will i at least be found.
16:57:16 <int-e> . o O ( let's all drink to that ... )
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17:03:59 <shachaf> Did you know @arr and @yarr are different commands?
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18:49:32 <orin> "github no longer supports old versions of firefox
18:49:41 <orin> IM NOT USING FIREFOX
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18:52:29 <int-e> I'm sure it was just btw and fyi.
18:52:51 <int-e> (also, what User-Agent header does your browser send?)
18:54:05 <orin> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:22.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/22.0 SeaMonkey/2.19
18:55:25 <int-e> well, close enough.
18:55:40 <int-e> (version 22 is old?!)
18:56:54 <int-e> "Firefox 22 was released on June 25, 2013" ...
18:59:12 <orin> I thought seamonkey was like a fork of firefox. apparently that's not exactly how it works
19:00:37 <int-e> I guess your seamonkey is old, too.
19:11:38 <orin> yeah... a lot of sites are saying i have an old version of firefox... all of them work perfectly fine though
19:16:20 <orin> Ok, why am I getting targeted advertisements that say "how to clear your criminal record?!"
19:17:58 <orin> GOOGLE, I DO NOT HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD
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19:36:18 <Ox0dea> orin: Why are you using an outdated version of Firefox?
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19:41:51 <orin> because it is what puppy linux precise comes with
19:43:54 <Ox0dea> orin: Convince me to run Puppy.
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19:45:01 <orin> It's cute, makes economical use of your computer's resources, and doesn't come with useless crap
19:47:47 <orin> It can run directly off of a 2GB sd card (which is how I am using it). It boots up in less than 5 seconds
19:48:11 <Ox0dea> I recently had a 1.9s boot on this Arch installation.
19:48:26 <orin> Arch isn't cute
19:48:34 <Ox0dea> echo 'ILoveCandy' >> /etc/pacman.conf
19:49:35 <orin> damn. you've got me there
19:49:51 <Ox0dea> Kidding aside, Arch is as cute as you're willing to make it, but I figure you know that.
19:50:51 <orin> Anyway I'm using puppy because my backup laptop has fried, so this is the backup's backup
19:53:50 <orin> Dell Latitude D620 biatches! Intel Centrino Duo!
19:54:24 <orin> Designed for Windows XP, but it's Windows Vista(TM) Capable!
19:55:04 <Sgeo_> Last time I looked at Puppy, I was confused about which version to use
19:55:38 <orin> It basically depends which oter distro's packeges you want
19:56:11 <orin> Precise puppy uses the packeages from Ubuntu Precise Panda i think
19:57:15 <orin> So if you're familiar with the package names from ubuntu it is easier
19:59:34 <orin> Sorry that's s/Panda/Pangolin/
19:59:52 <orin> Panda would have been better
20:04:56 <orin> n March 2006, Dell introduced the D620 (and the D820), its first business-oriented notebook with a dual core processor available.
20:08:57 <orin> This is also the laptop the burn scar on my right hand is from
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21:40:04 <orin> apparently I can type defined to deifned which autocorrects to deified
21:40:35 <orin> So "It is deified to be equal in the spec"
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21:54:22 <Sgeo_> Does busybox's mount support offset?
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21:59:39 <orin> Hmm. the docs don't have it, but they say that some of the options are filesystem specific
22:00:29 <b_jonas> Sgeo_: what kind of offset? loop device offset, as in losetup -o for Linux and whatever it is called in BSD?
22:02:03 <Sgeo_> I don't know what loop device offset means although I am using a loop device. I mean starting at a specific position if I have a file with multiple partitions
22:02:34 <orin> Ah. Yeah it doesn't appear to support iy
22:03:39 <orin> You could, assuming the file isnt ginormous, just split the partition you want into a separate file
22:05:49 <b_jonas> Sgeo_: loop device offset means that if you create a loop device with offset p, then when you read or write from the loop device at position q, that decide will read the underlying file at position p+q automatically. you can't read the device at a negative file position, so this excludes the beginning of the file, and (in new enough linuxes) you can also give a size limit.
22:06:09 <b_jonas> The whole thing exists in BSDs too, just everything is called differently and controlled with programs of different names.
22:06:40 <b_jonas> The mount program may be able to handle some of this automatically, but you can always use losetup explicitly. I don't know how much, and don't know what busybox can do, you'll have to read the manual or something.
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22:45:57 <shachaf> Sticking around in CT land?
22:47:20 <copumpkin> moving to Richmond, VA, but will probably keep coming up here periodically
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23:06:25 <orin> Richmond is also a place in Canada
23:06:49 <orin> so that is ambiguous
23:11:32 <orin> why can't CaLiforina be abbreviated CL? like NeVada NV
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23:14:27 <lambdabot> mroman_ said 9h 4m 44s ago: Invalid HTML Tag!
23:15:33 <HackEgo> California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A"
23:23:39 * oerjan is pleased that his linking to a webcomic just before he left led to a discussion about radiation exposure
23:30:17 <oerjan> good attempt although for maximal analogy i think you should have chosen somewhere in sweden
23:31:40 <boily> What's considered the California of Sweden?
23:33:56 <boily> the most populous län in Sweden is Stockholm. but what are their specific culture and consumption of avocadoes?
23:34:04 <copumpkin> shachaf: my girlfriend's residency :)
23:34:20 <oerjan> stockholm would be the washington d.c. of sweden, surely
23:35:15 <oerjan> i'm thinking göteborg is on the right side of the country but no idea if the climate is particularly dry
23:36:09 <boily> I was thinking perhaps Västra Götaland. lots of people, somewhat West and South...
23:36:15 <shachaf> copumpkin: Ah, right, I think you mentioned.
23:37:30 <zzo38> Do you know how to fix a "Bad DLL calling convention" error?
23:37:53 <boily> oerjan: no place in Sweden seems particularly dry...
23:38:14 <boily> oerjan: hm indeed.
23:40:39 <boily> olsner: hellolsner. could you please swedishly help us about a californian question twh?
23:44:37 <zzo38> I tried changing the function definition in the C code to have _stdcall at front but now it says the entry point is not found
23:45:02 <boily> hezzo38. what are you trying to do?
23:45:28 <zzo38> O, now it says it is called "Synthesize@8" for some reason, I will try that
23:45:39 <zzo38> boily: I am trying to call a C code from a Visual Basic code
23:46:21 <zzo38> Well, I got that to work now
23:46:56 <zzo38> Adding @8 to the end of the function name worked, but now I got a MCI error
23:49:45 <zzo38> It says "The MCI device you are using does not support the specified command."
23:51:57 <oerjan> <zzo38> But maybe question need to be rewritten a bit: Is 53 millirems per day a large amount for a raccoon? <-- i suspect it is rather a large amount for the raccoon to be _radiating_.
23:53:22 <orin> Apparently the issue with google not working on text-browsers was only temporary, probably caused by one of their game-events
23:56:36 <boily> fungot: radiating raccoons?
23:56:36 <fungot> boily: my great competitor among the reporters was boggs, of the duke of bedford would have it, from domestic misgovernment or from foreign hostility. the danger of the states-general was the signal for the fnord