00:00:08 <orin> boggs is an unfortunate name to have
00:01:33 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> [...] This can be proved by considering the type Vanish a = Gone which has a law-abiding monad instance, but is useless. [...] <-- it's not too hard to show that if some (m t) has at least two values then return must be injective, so the Identity monad embeds.
00:01:53 <oerjan> boily: http://www.the-whiteboard.com/cast/
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00:29:38 <oerjan> <orin> So "It is deified to be equal in the spec" <-- sounds like a good starting point for a religion there
00:33:02 <boily> are there any standards for religions? ISO? RFC?
00:33:46 <oerjan> there's probably one in the mahabharata somewhere
00:33:53 <pikhq> I don't think there's an ANSI standard religion.
00:34:28 <pikhq> You could probably consider the Anglican Church the BS standard religion though.
00:35:04 <oerjan> i suppose an ANSI standard religion would be unconstitutional
00:36:16 <oerjan> in other news, only 2 years until norway separates church and state hth
00:38:10 <pikhq> ANSI is not associated with the US government.
00:40:27 <zzo38> I don't expect ANSI requires a standard religion
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00:41:44 <orin> I suppose the Catechism is sort of the spec for Catholicism
00:42:04 <pikhq> Also, apparently "In God We Trust" is "ceremonial deism" which is somehow "constitutional", so.
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00:42:38 <oerjan> the fowlarization keeps reversing
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00:44:41 <orin> It's kind of convenient that the Catholic church keeps a public document of what precisely they believe.
00:46:02 <zzo38> Yes, it does help, so that people can understand it.
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00:49:38 <pikhq> orin: Not fond of folks like the Quakers then?
00:55:45 <orin> I wouldn't say that. But I generally like people to properly define what they think
00:56:20 <orin> I can't stand it when people like politicians talk out both sides their mouth
00:56:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42952&oldid=42948 * 72.74.32.143 * (+283)
00:58:10 <orin> So I definitely like that the Catholics have a very firm definition of their ideology
00:58:44 <pikhq> Least the Quakers are likely to very clearly tell you what they believe.
00:59:06 <pikhq> ("honesty about beliefs" is, like, their only bit of hard and fast dogma)
01:00:33 <pikhq> The main problem is, they don't really, y'know, believe in firmly defined fixed ideology. :)
01:00:53 <pikhq> (not a Quaker, just found their whole thing a bit interesting)
01:03:46 <zzo38> They don't need to as long as it is specified that they don't need to, as far as I am concerned. Nevertheless ideas should be made available so that you can figure out what you do believe or if you don't agree or whatever.
01:04:33 <pikhq> Sure. Stuff like the Church of Scientology is just sickening.
01:06:36 <orin> Well, I think they have more than one problem
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01:19:04 <Sgeo_> zzo38, do you know stuff about MIDI file format?
01:19:17 <zzo38> Sgeo_: I know a few stuff
01:19:36 <Sgeo_> Do you happen to know if there is any obvious sequence of bytes that would likely appear at the end of any MIDI?
01:20:52 <Sgeo_> I have a ".rsc" file which contains a bunch of files including MIDI files. I'm not sure how the .rsc file format works, but the files it contains seem to be in there plain.
01:23:27 <zzo38> You can figure out the size by the heading
01:24:49 <orin> MThd occurs at teh start of a midi
01:24:59 <orin> http://www.ccarh.org/courses/253/handout/smf/
01:25:01 <Sgeo_> zzo38, as in the MIDI file itself contains its own size?
01:26:40 <zzo38> You can look up number of tracks in the MThd block and then each track tell you the total data size.
01:27:35 <Sgeo_> Is only one track weird or normal
01:27:53 <zzo38> I think it is normal to have only one track
01:28:18 <zzo38> Even with only one track you can have up to sixteen channels
01:31:00 <zzo38> Although the track also ends with FF 2F 00 but it isn't guaranteed to not occur elsewhere in the file, due to running status
01:33:55 <Sgeo_> Looks like I did things correctly :)
01:34:07 <Sgeo_> If the ending was corrupt, would I notice at any point before the end?
01:35:54 <zzo38> If you find the event FF 2F 00 before the end (but only if it is in a place where an event belongs) then I would suppose it is wrong
01:36:28 <Sgeo_> I copy/pasted from a hex editor based on my understanding of the length, and just looked at what I copy pasted and it did end with FF 2F 00
01:36:50 <Sgeo_> I wonder if an extractor that only extracted midis would be useful or useless
01:37:23 <zzo38> Well, I have written one for the DOS game Hocus Pocus, so probably it might be useful to some people
01:39:09 <Sgeo_> Someone has written a more thorough extractor, but as far as I know it's not open source and it's only available from shady sites
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03:28:21 <oerjan> or[ei]n: or possibly you can /set nick and then /save
03:28:34 <oerjan> at least i see my nick in .irssi/config
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03:32:06 <oerjan> or[ei]n: apparently you can also set the environment variable $IRCNICK
03:33:10 <oerjan> presumably only if you don't change /set nick
03:39:22 <zzo38> I use macro in my configuration file to set nicknames; in my opinion that is better way.
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03:48:28 <Sgeo_> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/17879560417051/17879560417051.ogg
03:48:41 <Sgeo_> Is this a song from some well-known game?
03:48:54 <Sgeo_> I know a not-so-well-known game used it, wondering if it took it from somewhere
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04:18:06 <zzo38> How can I add a feature of auto-accompaniment into AmigaMML?
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05:26:51 <Sgeo_> ARe devices on a wifi network allowed to... just claim a hostname?
05:27:07 <Sgeo_> Trying to understand how http://find.synology.com works
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05:34:43 <or[ei]n> maybe it uses 192.168.n.m? there are only 65536 possiblities
05:40:26 <shachaf> It connects to diskstation.local:5000
05:40:44 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.local hth
05:43:14 <Sgeo_> FOr some reason I saw diskstation not diskstation.local
05:45:24 <Sgeo_> Also that link says Windows doesn't have mDNS support
05:47:52 <shachaf> My router will resolve hostnames on the local network.
05:48:51 <Sgeo_> WHat if two things try to use the same hostname?
05:49:08 <Sgeo_> E.g. if I have that DSM thing both as physical hardware and in a VM
05:49:20 <Sgeo_> And they both say they're diskstation
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06:36:28 <zzo38> The domain name should resolve by administration; it shouldn't be allowed to just claim a hostname; print the MAC address on the device if you need to know how to refer to it
06:37:19 <zzo38> But I suppose both wired and wireless network routers if they have DNS server can use the MAC address to make up the domain name if such function is enabled
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07:05:18 <zzo38> What is the proper way to keyscale a filter envelope?
07:05:26 <zzo38> s/keyscale/antikeyscale/
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08:08:14 <Vorpal> <Sgeo_> ARe devices on a wifi network allowed to... just claim a hostname? <--- that is a common setup of home routers yes
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11:04:35 <int-e> oerjan: while we're splitting hairs, "it's not too hard to show that if some (m t) has at least two values then return must be injective, so the Identity monad embeds" <-- true, but those (observably, hmm) distinct values are a feature that lives outside the monad signature. Which was the point, pretty much.
11:12:44 <Taneb> oerjan, happy Norwegian Constitution Day apparently
11:12:46 <int-e> > let f True = return () :: State () () in ((return False >>= f) `seq` (), (f False) `seq` ())
11:12:48 <lambdabot> ((),*Exception: <interactive>:3:5-37: Non-exhaustive patterns in function f
11:14:59 <oerjan> Taneb: thx although my sleeping cycle is precisely the wrong way around for it
11:15:18 <Taneb> oerjan, your sleep schedule is unconstitutional hth
11:15:51 <int-e> wait, your constitution (I mean the legal one) regulates sleep schedules?
11:16:39 <int-e> Though I guess it does cover human rights and therefore sleep deprivation as a form of torture...
11:16:54 <int-e> ...but I don't think that's applicable to oerjan's case.
11:17:20 <oerjan> int-e: perhaps not, although "making people get up in the morning (before they get welfare support)" is kind of a political cliché here
11:17:44 <Jafet> Lack of sleep is known to be bad for the constitution
11:17:53 <oerjan> (obviously they completely failed with me)
11:20:55 <oerjan> Jafet: it's not lack of sleep on average, just strange synchronization
11:29:15 <int-e> @poll-result best-spoken-language
11:29:15 <lambdabot> Poll results for best-spoken-language (Open): magyar=3, Polish=484, Welsh=1, Georgian=3, Manx=1, norwegian=8
11:29:51 <int-e> @poll-remove best-spoken-language
11:29:51 <lambdabot> poll "best-spoken-language" removed.
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11:51:59 <Taneb> The Cayley-Hamilton theorem seems very odd to me
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12:02:16 <int-e> (And I like the stupid one-line "proof", that says that since p_A(x) = det(A - x I), we have p_A(A) = det(A - A I) = det(0) = 0.)
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12:47:41 <b_jonas> fungot, do you like potatos?
12:47:41 <fungot> b_jonas: the alphabet and simplified spelling spelling and pictures books and burglars authors' club
12:55:05 <boily> b_jhellonas. I think the 'got prefers alphabet soup hth
13:07:04 <boily> . o O ( does the Hungarian version of alphabet soup have ő and ű? )
13:09:31 <b_jonas> boily: no, at least not the ones I've seen
13:10:09 <b_jonas> I don't think there's a separate Hungarian version produced even
13:11:04 <boily> so much for i18ned alphabet soup :/
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13:12:35 <b_jonas> boily: there's the question of whether there's a kanji alphabet soup
13:14:04 <b_jonas> it would probably need sprues to hold the pasta for disconnected kanji together
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13:16:37 <or[ei]n> or it could just use the cursive versions of the kanji
13:18:31 <boily> a variation on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edomoji ?
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13:18:52 <HackEgo> Weloxux: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
13:19:11 <or[ei]n> most people's would just be for example Sgeo_* but Taneb would be \(Ta\)\?n\(eb\|vd\)
13:19:17 <boily> meanwhile, what the fungot is kakuji...
13:19:18 <fungot> boily: 107. to this time it has been said: " one minute." and if we turn from this glorious spectacle to the private chamber of the fnord discussions by which we are led particularly to impress the lesson already alluded to on your attention. of the advantages of knowledge between those who hate all order. england has no peculiar reason to dread the introduction of personal reflections of any kind was referred to at that day. b
13:19:37 <Taneb> or[ei]n, that doesn't cover atriq or Ngevd
13:20:11 <Taneb> Mine'd be (Taneb|atriq|N(ge)?vd) if I got the formatting right
13:20:27 <Taneb> Not sure it can be simplified past that without false positives
13:21:31 <or[ei]n> At some point I should switch my ed mod to use eregexes. bregexes can be hard to read
13:21:56 <b_jonas> couldn't they just recognize you from your irc username (as opposed to nick)? Istr that's "Taneb" even when you're nvd or whatever other nick
13:22:22 <Taneb> I really ought to make my realname my actual real name
13:23:25 <Taneb> Hmm, has this changed it?
13:24:11 <Taneb> Anyway, my real name is Nathan van Doorn, if anyone asks
13:24:32 <or[ei]n> My real name is Oren Isaac Watson
13:24:39 <b_jonas> or[ei]n: you could use a regex modifier like gnu sed does, only drawback is that the modifier letter shan't collide with a command, because just like sed, ed allows regex match in an address
13:24:59 <b_jonas> what's your real name when nobody is asking?
13:26:23 <b_jonas> doesn't it have an "e" somewhere?
13:26:51 <or[ei]n> But when I was in primary school I often got confused as to how to spell it
13:27:32 <or[ei]n> Izak is much more correct phonetically than Isaac
13:29:15 <or[ei]n> It didn't help that up until grade 2 I wrote my Z and S identicaly
13:30:21 <b_jonas> or[ei]n: I cross all my lower case z because otherwise I'd write them too similarly
13:31:24 <b_jonas> not exactly the same, but it still helps
13:31:40 <b_jonas> the bad part is that I write lots of other letters so ugly even I can't distinguish them
13:33:03 <or[ei]n> I have very terrible printing, but very nice cursive
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13:33:34 <or[ei]n> the main problem is r versus v and u
13:34:02 <or[ei]n> when i print, they STILL look the same unless I pay a lot of attention
13:35:15 <or[ei]n> I wish i was allowed to use kanji as variables in equations
13:35:45 <b_jonas> or[ei]n: yeah. in my handwriting, "r" and "v" are the same too. ("u" is different.) also, "f" and "b" are often too similar. and I write "c" and "w" and "p" too close to the next letter, AND "c" too similar to "e", which makes "cl", "d", "el" sometimes look the same
13:36:44 <or[ei]n> Your printing is probably not as angular as mine
13:36:45 <b_jonas> I don't even know a good way to write "v" different from "r" (and other letters, including "b") unless I write it very wide. I should figure out some solution for that and learn it. as well as learn to write "c" properly.
13:37:54 <or[ei]n> yeah, what I do is sub in a cursive r
13:38:27 <boily> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italic_script helps. vertical downstokes, diagonal upstokes.
13:38:27 <or[ei]n> which looks weird but at least is distinguishable in equations
13:38:32 <b_jonas> or[ei]n: yes, but that's the problem. a cursive "r" looks like a cursive "v" to me, and somewhat similar to a cursive "b", because they both end in a raised shallow smile.
13:39:36 <b_jonas> I can make "v" and "b" and "f" different because of their ascenders and descenders if I take care, but that doesn't help for "r" versus "v"
13:41:03 <b_jonas> I never really had a problem with "u" versus "v", or with "o" versus "a", unlike some people
13:41:50 <or[ei]n> yeah... basically what I'm saying is, I write v and u both like v appears in most fonts.
13:44:14 <or[ei]n> so yeah, mostly angular and scary
13:44:53 <or[ei]n> l looks like a line when I don't care, like a long z when I try to distinguish it
13:48:54 <Taneb> Wow, I feel really good about my handwriting now
13:49:30 <or[ei]n> you people with good coordination... you probably can touch type too
13:50:26 <or[ei]n> I can wirte beatiful cursive but only at like, 20 words a minute
13:52:04 <or[ei]n> off topic, I am so happy to be back on a latop with a nub mouse
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13:55:29 <or[ei]n> "Of or pertaining to uncles"
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16:14:38 <Taneb> It's quarter past 5 in the evening, I should get dressed and have breakfast
16:16:07 <b_jonas> past... oh, you're using British timezone, +01:00
16:18:19 <Taneb> York, to be precise
16:18:59 <or[ei]n> Do you march up the hill and then down again?
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16:21:02 <Taneb> or[ei]n, there are very few hills here
16:21:17 <Taneb> However, last year I routinely walked up and down one of them
16:21:50 <Taneb> That being Siward's Howe
16:22:22 <Taneb> shachaf, in places
16:22:26 <Taneb> Not particularly, though
16:22:35 <Taneb> The one Clifford's Tower sits atop is
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16:26:11 <or[ei]n> I wonder who originally decided that \ was the escape character
16:29:26 <or[ei]n> If it was the same person who decided to use / to delimit regexes, I want to slap that person
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16:43:21 <zzo38> I don't know but some program also they can use different escapes/delimiters too
16:48:16 <b_jonas> of course. sed and ed (for both matching and replacment), ex (for substitution), bash (for history expansion substitution), perl (for matching and substitution) can all use different delimiters
16:48:36 <Vorpal> <or[ei]n> If it was the same person who decided to use / to delimit regexes, I want to slap that person <-- depending on context and program other values may be allowed
16:48:45 <b_jonas> I think the slash syntax probably originates from ed
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16:49:07 <Vorpal> s#a#b# works too, in fact any one character following the s will be used for delimiter
16:49:12 <b_jonas> I don't quite know where backslash for escapes comes from, maybe from the original shell
16:49:53 <b_jonas> sed has basically taken most of that syntax from ed
16:51:21 <b_jonas> is there an ex syntax for searching with any delimiter though, not just a slash or question mark?
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17:38:49 <zzo38> I have x=atan(z)/(0.5*TAU)+0.5; sam[i]=y=x*sam[i]+(1.0-x)*y; What is a way to adjust this kind of filter parameter for a change in sample rate? I have a parameter "scale" which is the reciprocal of the sample rate although it is not in Hz and is rather 1.0 for the base amount (whatever the base amount happens to be).
17:45:42 <int-e> is this supposed to cause a phase shift, for some kind of stereo effect?
17:46:34 <or[ei]n> the atan part would be a soft-limit
17:47:00 <or[ei]n> so that high amplitudes aren't clipped too badly
17:47:52 <int-e> hmm, not quite, because there's some feedback through the y variable. meh.
17:49:01 <int-e> (I'm commenting on my own comment, not yours, oren)
17:49:07 <zzo38> It seems a kind of lowpass filter to me. I wanted to at least approximate the change in cutoff from a change in sample rate so with a higher sample rate it is at least partially affected.
17:49:27 <shachaf> i prefer that you use the nick "orin" because "oren" is already taken hth
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17:50:17 -!- or[ei]n has changed nick to ORin.
17:51:20 <int-e> so orin is not oren, even though oren sometimes used the nick orin? I'm confused.
17:52:01 <zzo38> NS INFO shows two different accounts
17:52:02 <ORin> As far as I know I'm the only or[ie]n who has ever been on this channel
17:52:54 <ORin> (i'm the oren who wrote scrip7 ith)
17:53:33 <int-e> ORin: so is any of the accounts that nickserv knows about (it has both oren and orin) yours?
17:53:35 <ORin> also people keep referring to accounts but I have no clue
17:54:02 <int-e> (I think that's a no)
17:54:07 <shachaf> int-e: my father's name is oren hth
17:54:35 <ORin> I just do irssi --nick oren -c irc.freenode.net
17:54:51 <ORin> or orin depending on the phase of the moon
17:55:21 <zzo38> Why it depend on the phase of the moon?
17:55:23 <int-e> . o O ( orientation )
17:55:29 <ORin> Before, my username on the computer was oren so I didn't need to --nick
17:56:14 <ORin> zzo38: it doesn't actually, it's random
17:56:39 <int-e> /set nick orin ... /save ... edit .irssi/config to your heart's delight?
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17:59:18 <Melvar> Btw today my interpolation grew showing of non-strings.
17:59:19 <int-e> (there's also /save layout ... oh and I believe all this is actually documented somewhere)
17:59:48 <ORin> Melvar: um. What?
18:00:17 <int-e> ah wait, it's /layout save. hah.
18:00:19 <Melvar> ( let x = 2 in let y : Integer = x * x in interpolate "${x} squared is ${y}"
18:00:25 <int-e> (I haven't used that in a while)
18:00:52 <Melvar> ( \x : Integer => let y = x * x in interpolate "${x} squared is ${y}"
18:00:52 <idris-bot> \x => prim__concat (prim__toStrBigInt x) (prim__concat " squared is " (prim__concat (prim__toStrBigInt (prim__mulBigInt x x)) "")) : Integer -> String
18:01:08 <ORin> i'm no stickler for grammer, but at a fundamental level that sentence was
18:02:57 <Melvar> Well, I guess I missed a comma.
18:03:12 <ORin> Where?E?EE??e?
18:04:06 <ORin> uh, no i mean what does "my interpolation grew showing" mean how do i even parse that
18:04:23 <Melvar> “showing” used as a noun.
18:04:27 <int-e> ORin: nothing. it's (my interpolation) grew (showing of non-strings)
18:04:57 * int-e doesn't particularly like "grew" there, but it appears to be grammatically correct.
18:05:32 <ORin> Oh. so he added support for showing non-strings to an implementation of string interpolation
18:05:36 <Melvar> Well, to be quite correct it’s that *my implementation* of interpolation grew it.
18:06:30 <ORin> Before I suppose you had to convert things to strigs before interpolationg them?
18:07:30 <ORin> I always thought perl's string interpolation was too far
18:08:21 <Melvar> And it still only works with variable names because supporting even very simple expressions turns out to be rather nontrivial.
18:08:33 <ORin> there is no good reason to allow arbitrary code inside a string, and it screws up the vast majority of syntax highlighters
18:08:39 <Melvar> Oh, and “showing” was also meaning
18:08:41 <idris-bot> Prelude.show : Show a => a -> String
18:09:23 <Melvar> ORin: The fun of this one is that this is a library rather than implemented inside the compiler.
18:10:07 <zzo38> In some programming languages (such as Forth) the only way to properly do syntax highlighting is to execute it (although you can sandbox it if necessary).
18:10:23 <ORin> So when it gets to "${x}" it has to somehow search the environment for a variable called x?
18:10:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, perl is one of those languages too.
18:10:46 <Melvar> ORin: Yes, which it does via reflection.
18:11:09 <b_jonas> interpolation in strings has nothing to do with being hard to highlight
18:11:23 <b_jonas> ruby is a case in point, it has string interpolation, but it's relatively easy to parse
18:11:31 <b_jonas> just imagine the interpolation as if the string literal is broken there
18:11:45 <zzo38> I know that a Forth syntax highlighter that works by executing the code does exist; I don't know if there is such thing of Perl.
18:12:00 <b_jonas> so when I write "foo#{bar}qux" it's really similar to ("foo" + String(bar) + "qux")
18:12:00 <ORin> Only perl can parse Perl
18:12:11 <b_jonas> in ruby, you have to parse the bar part like a normal expression that can contain any code
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18:12:20 <Melvar> The reflection is compile-time-only though.
18:12:22 <b_jonas> (this differs from perl, which finds the closing double quote first)
18:12:36 <b_jonas> it works the same as menti9oning variables in ordinary code
18:12:39 <Melvar> b_jonas: I’m talking about mine.
18:13:06 <Melvar> Sorry, I forgot to press enter first and then failed to consider context when I did remember.
18:13:19 <b_jonas> (ruby's interpolation syntax makes more sense by the way, but it's too late to change perl now)
18:14:14 <Melvar> ( \bar : String => interpolate "foo${bar}qux"
18:14:14 <idris-bot> \bar => prim__concat "foo" (prim__concat bar "qux") : String -> String
18:16:01 <Melvar> If it didn’t reduce it as far, that would be exactly “\bar => "foo" ++ bar ++ "qux"”
18:16:15 <Melvar> ( \bar : Integer => interpolate "foo${bar}qux"
18:16:15 <idris-bot> \bar => prim__concat "foo" (prim__concat (prim__toStrBigInt bar) "qux") : Integer -> String
18:16:29 <b_jonas> Melvar: is this some crazy template haskell thing?
18:17:04 <ORin> it's some crazy compile-time idris thing
18:17:08 <Melvar> b_jonas: It’s not completely unlike it, but not all that like it either.
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18:19:21 <Melvar> Basically, I don’t get to output an parser-level AST thing, I have to fill in a fully-specified term of the core language using hooks into the elaborator.
18:21:07 <Melvar> The elaborator is the thing that fills in all the intermediate types and implicit arguments and generally turns Idris into TT.
18:22:04 <idris-bot> (NS (UN "++") ["Strings", "Prelude"])
18:22:04 <idris-bot> (Bind (UN "__pi_arg") (Pi (TConst StrType) (TType (UVar -1))) (Bind (UN "__pi_arg1") (Pi (TConst StrType) (TType (UVar -1))) (TConst StrType))))
18:22:07 <int-e> a combination of desugarer + typechecker?
18:22:33 <Melvar> Well, there’s another typechecker underneath that’s simple for reliability.
18:23:07 <int-e> oh, it's a theorem prover. right.
18:23:45 <Melvar> The idea is that the elaborator answers the actual typechecker’s call to “please elaborate” on the rather threadbare thing the user input.
18:24:51 <Melvar> There’s a whole two arguments to show I haven’t given.
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18:25:34 <Melvar> The first one can be found by unification using the argument I did gave, then the second has to be found through instance search using the first one.
18:26:40 <Melvar> Also I never said that I wanted the show from Prelude (though in this case of course there isn’t another in scope so resolving that is relatively easy).
18:27:50 <idris-bot> (NS (UN "++") ["Strings", "Prelude"])
18:27:50 <idris-bot> (Bind (UN "__pi_arg") (Pi (TConst StrType) (TType (UVar -1))) (Bind (UN "__pi_arg1") (Pi (TConst StrType) (TType (UVar -1))) (TConst StrType))))
18:28:26 <Melvar> ↑ And this thing is the core-language representation of that little term.
18:29:41 <int-e> meh how overloaded is (++) there?
18:30:02 <idris-bot> When elaborating an application of function Prelude.show:
18:30:02 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.++, Prelude.List.++, Prelude.Strings.++, Data.VectType.Vect.++
18:30:09 <idris-bot> Data.HVect.(++) : HVect ts -> HVect us -> HVect (ts ++ us)
18:30:09 <idris-bot> Prelude.List.(++) : List a -> List a -> List a
18:30:09 <idris-bot> Prelude.Strings.(++) : String -> String -> String
18:30:09 <idris-bot> Data.VectType.Vect.(++) : Vect m a -> Vect n a -> Vect (m + n) a
18:30:44 <Melvar> The biggest part there, the third line, is just the type of Strings.(++).
18:31:24 <int-e> yeah, I'm trying to parse that.
18:32:44 <int-e> which means I have to remember how -> is expressed as a dependent product.
18:32:58 <Melvar> It may help if I phrase it as “(__pi_arg : String : Type (-1)) -> (__pi_arg1 : String : Type (-1)) -> String”
18:33:38 <int-e> oh, (TType (UVar -1)) is the box?
18:33:42 <Melvar> Which isn’t actually valid syntax with the extra explicit types of types.
18:34:05 <Melvar> (TType _) is the representation of Type, the type of types.
18:34:38 <int-e> I guess I'm wondering whether -1 has a particular meaning there.
18:34:45 <Melvar> Which contains an id for a universe level so that you don’t get cyclic universe constraints.
18:35:58 <Melvar> I’m not sure if the id (-1) is special, but it probably is.
18:36:43 <Melvar> It might be the level that primitive types are resolved to or something.
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18:37:44 <idris-bot> prim__BindElab : Elab a -> (a -> Elab b) -> Elab b↵…
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18:38:50 <idris-bot> Melvar.Interpolate.interpolate : String -> {tacimp x : String} -> String
18:39:32 <Melvar> Elab is the monad of elaboration scripts, and that tacimp in the source actually points at such an elaboration script to fill in the value of x.
18:39:38 <idris-bot> Melvar.Interpolate.elabInterpolate : String -> Elab ()
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19:30:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42953&oldid=42810 * Madflame991 * (-1) Updated a broken link
19:33:15 <Taneb> Aaaah I am foiled once more by takeaways stopping delivery at 8:30
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19:35:01 <shachaf> also apparently it's called take-away in the uk
19:36:37 <Taneb> What is it called in other places
19:37:16 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeaway hth
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19:46:59 <ORin> It is called carry out
19:47:21 <ORin> as in "Eat in, or carry out"?
19:47:54 <shachaf> I can't tell whether you're asking a question or trying to quote a question.
19:47:58 <shachaf> "China produces about 57 billion pairs of single-use chopsticks yearly"
19:48:04 <shachaf> that's a lot of chopsticks
19:48:49 <b_jonas> yeah, it's 114 billion chopsticks per year
19:49:20 <ORin> Luckily wood is a renewable resource
19:49:55 <ORin> Not as renewable as stone though
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21:00:42 <int-e> okay, so the bogus hpa RSA key is an md5 collision, beautiful.
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21:11:45 <tswett> You know what I like? Fully general examples.
21:12:13 <tswett> For example, one example of the idea of a group is the idea of a permutation group.
21:12:40 <tswett> But this example is fully general, because every group can be seen as a permutation group.
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21:33:56 <int-e> hmm, oh well, I don't know why, but the bad and the good keys differ in a single block of 32 bytes length, not obviously aligned in any way.
21:34:34 <zzo38> Some program such as SoX and ImageMagick and so on can operate on sounds, pictures, videos, etc but they are really different number of dimensions and different number of channels (such as 3 dimensions for an animated picture), and still there is resolution parameter (such as DPI for pictures and sample rate for audio). Some operators can also be generalized to different number of dimensions/channels.
21:38:00 <zzo38> For operators that work only one dimension you can specify which dimension to act on if there is more than one. Simple echo effects can be generalized more than one dimension since the delay for echo can be a vector of multiple dimensions; noise can also be any number of dimension, and also gradients, etc. Therefore such program can be made to operate such thing
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22:03:35 <int-e> Oh well, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9561179 seems to be the most reasonable take on it so far. I still wonder whether there was any malicious intent behind the bogus subkey.
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22:13:10 <oerjan> <Taneb> Wow, I feel really good about my handwriting now <-- word :P
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22:40:58 <tswett> Where I live, the ubiquitous question asked at fast food places is "for here or to go?"
22:41:06 <tswett> The responses are, of course, "for here" and "to go".
22:41:57 <oerjan> in norway there's actually a tax difference
22:42:00 <tswett> But the food itself would be referred to as "carryout", if you have to make the distinction.
22:42:26 <int-e> oerjan: which one has less taxes? take away food?
22:42:26 <oerjan> due to some ancient political shuffling
22:43:19 <tswett> I feel like there's a difference between "carryout" and "to go", but I can't quite put my finger on it.
22:43:32 <oerjan> there's a general vat exemption for food, which doesn't apply to restaurants, and they wisely decided that if you take the food away from the restaurant you get _half_ the exemption.
22:43:35 <int-e> Lucky guess, I can't say that either really makes more sense than the other.
22:44:17 <int-e> that's lawmakers for you...
22:44:28 <int-e> ...always finding new complicat... err I mean compromises.
22:44:32 <tswett> If I called a restaurant where people normally order, wait fifteen minutes, and eat there, but I wanted to take the foot out instead, I'd tell them, "I'd like to place a carryout order."
22:45:20 <tswett> I'd then probably refer to the food as "carryout".
22:46:06 <tswett> If it were a fast food restaurant, I'd just say "to go" when ordering (and I certainly wouldn't order ahead), and then I'd just refer to the food as "fast food" instead of "carryout".
22:46:41 <tswett> Or "food to go", I guess.
22:47:17 <tswett> "We got some food to go at McDonald's." "We got some carryout at Some Casual Restaurant."
22:50:21 <oerjan> int-e: i may be slightly confused, the exemption was half the vat, and possibly carryout got all of it.
22:53:55 <oerjan> *take-away, let's not absorb new terminology nilly-willy here
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22:57:27 <oerjan> apparently they've shaved some off the exemption, now it's 15% vat for food compared to 25% in general.
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23:16:07 <boily> chellopumpkin. shellochaf.
23:20:55 * oerjan learns that the US doesn't generally have VAT
23:22:13 <shachaf> coppro: Were you responding to something I said before or just saying hi?
23:22:23 <shachaf> If I was going to say something before I've forgotten what it is.
23:23:45 <coppro> I was agreeing with oerjan
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23:33:14 <zzo38> OpenMPT can load the old 15-samples MODs, but cannot save them. AmigaMML now has the capability to save such files if you tell it to do so. It is the only one or are there others (not counting Ultimate SoundTracker)?
23:34:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Esowiki201529A/芝麻油]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42954 * Esowiki201529A * (+205) Created page with "香油，又称芝麻油、麻油，是从芝麻中提炼出来的，因具有特别香味，故称为香油。 按榨取方法一般分为机榨香油和小磨香油，小磨..."
23:38:09 <zzo38> It looks like OpenMPT loads "FLT8"s too but not "EXO8"s; I read somewhere they have the same format but it doesn't seem to do that in OpenMPT at least.
23:39:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[User:Esowiki201529A/芝麻油]]": This is a wiki, not a clipboard
23:43:53 <boily> I wonder what kind of spam it was of.
23:45:08 <oerjan> sesame oil, not spam hth
23:45:26 <oerjan> and it was pretty short, so most is in that edit description.
23:45:54 <oerjan> it was just ... wtf is e putting it on our wiki
23:53:03 <oerjan> <tswett> But this example is fully general, because every group can be seen as a permutation group. <-- boolean algebra of sets...
23:53:35 <tswett> oerjan: yeah, when someone says "VAT", I think "that European tax thing".
23:53:40 <oerjan> or distributive lattice of sets, almost the same
23:55:02 <oerjan> tswett: according to wikipedia there are a _few_ other places than the US that don't have it, but it's by no means just "european". although the french apparently did it first.
23:55:49 <oerjan> so it's really approaching another imperial / metric split at this point.