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00:13:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RLS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43041&oldid=43026 * Zzo38 * (+4)
00:13:31 <tswett> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_File:Turtiously-proved-several-age-metro-strategies-seems
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00:25:08 <zzo38> The link is no good, but, that is what it is.
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00:28:25 <tswett> The link doesn't point to anything; I just found the link itself to be funny.
00:30:44 <tswett> When I set the neural net's "temperature" setting very low, the output consists almost exclusively of endless monologues delivered by oerjan to int-e.
00:30:53 <izabera> http://arin.ga/VyqZex/raw i just finished writing this, it's the grammar for a simple shell and an example of the generated AST
00:31:04 <tswett> The monologues are nonsensical and very repetitive.
00:31:13 <tswett> "i don't know what it's a bug in the same particles, but it's all the same as a subset of the same thing is that it's all the same way to do it with the same as a subset of the same problem"
00:31:20 <tswett> "it's a subset of the same thing is that it's a bit more often to say that it's a bit of the same as the same as a subset of the same particles are the same as a subset of the same thing"
00:31:37 <izabera> i thought it looks nice, just wanted to share...
00:31:41 <tswett> "i don't know what i was thinking of any of the same things in the same particles with the same thing is that they're not a bit more than the same as a subset of the same sequence of the same problem"
00:32:52 <tswett> So, according to this neural net, that is what the very essence of #esoteric is: oerjan telling int-e about computer science.
00:33:42 <tswett> Oh, occasionally oerjan's monologue is interrupted by this:
00:33:44 <tswett> 21:16:44: <oerjan> `run echo '99'
00:33:44 <tswett> 21:16:48: <HackEgo> let: Welcome to * SuperJedi224 * (+1)
00:33:55 <tswett> The exchange is always exactly the same, as far as I can see.
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00:34:19 <oren> let Welcome to SuperJedi224
00:36:06 <oren> So it's sort of an avergae of Hackego's Welcome message and its wiki change message
00:36:15 <tswett> For extremely low temperatures, the output just consists of this line repeated over and over:
00:36:15 <tswett> 21:16:48: <oerjan> int-e: i'm not sure what i'm working on the same particles are something like that.
00:37:56 <oren> Oerjan: are you sure what you're working on the same particles yet?
00:38:12 <tswett> It's a lot like that xkcd comic that predicts that in the year 2109, all English text will consist entirely of the word "sustainable" repeated some number of times.
00:41:43 <oren> well that's sure not sustainable
01:28:50 <zzo38> I think I made up the syntax highlighting program language now; now I can try to make up the program using it.
01:53:17 <zzo38> Now I tried to make the program (I have not tested it because I have no implementation). Do you like this kind of syntax highlighters? http://sprunge.us/deXP
01:57:21 <tswett> Really weird randomly generated URL:
01:57:22 <tswett> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slereah______________________________________________________>_________________________________________________________________________________).html
01:57:40 <oren> ______________
01:58:10 <oren> so apparently, a url with a
01:58:31 <oren> _ is most likely to be followed by anothir _
02:00:32 <oren> Or wait, this a neural netowrk
02:03:08 <zzo38> Do you understand my program at all? Some syntax highlighting packages I am not so sure is even capable of syntax highlighting IRC.
02:04:13 <zzo38> Someone else also posted something on here, and there is also GeSHi and a few others but some looks capable, some looks not, as far as I can tell (I might be wrong though).
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02:08:38 <tswett> Now I'm training the neural net on one single version of the Agora Nomic Full Logical Ruleset.
02:09:14 <tswett> Which, I'm told, is extremely small as far as RNN training data sets go.
02:21:43 <ais523> is this going to be some sort of neural network vs. markov chain competition?
02:21:54 <ais523> I guess you could try it on the entire Agora email archives
02:22:59 * ais523 vaguely ponders why, when defining tuples in terms of pairs, people tend to use the right-associative definition
02:23:04 <ais523> i.e. (x, y, z) = (x, (y, z))
02:26:52 <ais523> hmm, Konversation's "are you sure you want to close this query" confirmation has a "cancel" button and a "close" button, both with the same icon
02:27:15 <tswett> I think expressions and phrases tend to be easier to understand when short components precede long components.
02:27:50 <tswett> So, training using the default settings produced crappy results.
02:28:31 <tswett> Al nothing a rulent the Rules by ame to person the sutcoming with hoald exponted by the gromating be action of the rules entict of the required the intally [...]
02:28:51 <tswett> Indentation and line length both seem essentially random.
02:29:25 <tswett> I mean, indentation is six spaces more often than not. But lots of lines are indented much further for no apparent reason.
02:30:14 <tswett> So now I'm training again, with the number of passes through the ruleset set to 200 instead of 30, and with dropout turned on.
02:36:18 <ais523> hmm, there is one notable difference to Markov chains there: all those nonwords are pronounceable
02:36:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `words: not found
02:36:33 <HackEgo> imma ove lamodial mont rassemi distimed sulf londe vetarium sou's pecti fad pio stry febr eunece sixt imperpenical mon comegar
02:36:52 <ais523> I guess the Markov chain doesn't do too badly either
02:37:27 <ais523> oh bleh I designed a new esolang in my head recently and now I can't remember how it worked
02:37:44 <ais523> although, hmm, just complaining about it is bringing details bac
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02:43:09 <tswett> Of those, only "febr" is illegal.
02:43:15 <HackEgo> bract tendusta wrenterbe doubtil ilinquil scie gement groventi nishto ivilly zereolorv nit inte duper impan chab nellin don sation subcasli
02:43:30 <tswett> All of those are legal.
02:44:33 <tswett> Permitted by the English phonotactic rules.
02:46:28 <ais523> "wrenterbe" is not the sort of word someone would come up with for general usage
02:46:38 <ais523> it sounds more like the name of a village (but is misspelled for that purpose)
02:47:06 <HackEgo> chan rott cotf onnende cho godon natina char flemesta coneuted twe ecouu schue ker bouldj guld estex overna pate bra reinham fab subai vol chaftsma
02:48:01 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ use strict; use warnings; \ use v5.10; \ use open qw( :encoding(UTF-8) :std); \ use File::Basename 'dirname'; \ use Storable 'retrieve'; \ use List::Util qw(sum min); \ use Getopt::Long qw(:config gnu_getopt); \ BEGIN { \ eval { \ require Math::Random::MT::Perl; Math::Random::MT::Perl->import('rand'); \ }; \ #wa
02:48:26 <ais523> what does use open :std do?
02:48:46 <ais523> oh, makes it affect stdin/stdout/stderr
02:50:23 <tswett> I can run the #esoteric neural net with a higher temperature and it'll generate a lot more pseudowords.
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02:52:45 <tswett> Some examples: suball, le, vths, metaused, deflond, fraw, equalvy, screenshapi, whe, skeited, interrative, lense, postpism, tripools, autis, poverly, assalated, commriau
02:53:14 <ais523> I assume many/most of the words are real?
02:53:49 <ais523> or, well, "lense" is pretty convincing as a real word even though it technically isn't
02:53:56 <tswett> An earlier version of the net produced the word "shitted", which I'm pretty sure has never been used in this channel.
02:53:59 <ais523> actually many of those words are really convincing
02:54:04 <tswett> Yeah, "lense" is a decently common misspelling.
02:54:15 <ais523> such a pity that `logs is broken
02:54:49 <zzo38> tswett: Now it is in such channel (but, in quotation marks)
02:55:11 <Lyka|Phone> so I now must design the memory and disk access structure for fourfuck
02:55:21 <tswett> The gist contains the word "interpretter". I wonder if it has learned that if a word ends in something like "et", you add something like "t" before adding a suffix.
02:55:25 <ais523> this was a common problem with `log
02:55:33 <ais523> I ended up inventing `pastlog to work around it
02:55:58 <tswett> The `log command would return the message in which it was invoked as one of the messages?
02:57:30 <ais523> no, but it'd return other people's `log commands looking for the same thing, commands where you typoed what you were looking for, that sort of thing
02:57:34 <Lyka|Phone> current idea has a file size in increments of 1 MiB
02:57:53 <tswett> More pseudowords generated by the net: althousless, literiates, gdeh, preventely, guant, pood, deepcian, duno, harmlefuck, dundefll, kno, intuinters, onter, waii, irall, namescp, cutts
02:57:58 <tswett> The last three actually occur consecutively.
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02:58:23 <tswett> "cat do this kind of 6800s. A graph 16 time-compositions specific maps?!S # is made first bugs that people write irall namescp cutts also recursively."
02:58:47 <tswett> I'd say that the neural net, when run at the default temperature of 1.0, makes just about as much sense as fungot.
02:58:47 <fungot> tswett: ( eb) at the specified cost is not aether. rules to submit an application to submit that judgement within a time limit.
03:00:11 <ais523> fungot also has low-temperature modes though
03:00:12 <fungot> ais523: rule via the specified act and none of the
03:00:18 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
03:00:25 <ais523> fungot: give me something plausible-looking
03:00:25 <fungot> ais523: there is no question about it. the second point concerns transitional arrangements for finland, sweden and ireland can still use no more than repeat what has been the european union
03:00:35 <Lyka|Phone> so does a max file size of 64 GiB seem too small?
03:00:55 <ais523> Lyka|Phone: I thought you were designing this for very limited devices?
03:01:14 <ais523> 64 GiB is the current size of the media I use for backups
03:03:44 <ais523> my idea of a limited device is quite different
03:03:59 <ais523> the smallest processors I've worked on had less than a kilobyte of read-write memory
03:04:07 <pikhq> The thing is, SD cards are really, really cheap to drive.
03:05:49 <Lyka|Phone> possibly with an sdhc reader/writer connected
03:06:52 <pikhq> If you don't mind it being slow you can drive a SD card bitbanging with a couple of IO ports.
03:07:01 <Lyka|Phone> so limited + up to 32 gib "disk" space
03:08:26 <pikhq> Like, I'm pretty sure you could quite reasonably drive an SD card from an NES's controller port.
03:09:19 <oren> screenshapi should be an API for displaying images on non-rectangular or non-flat displays, while retaining their appearance as flat images
03:09:26 <pikhq> It's a card select, data in, data out, and clock.
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03:13:22 <oren> protip: if you bite your laptop you can hear the quiter component of it
03:14:35 <oren> laptops aren't very tasty though
03:15:23 <FireFly> You could try with an Apple laptop instead
03:17:07 <Lyka|Phone> for the interpreter, "cache" is 16 bytes, "tape" is 256 bytes, and (for this test) "cxarray" (read only memory in flash hard-coded into the arduino sketch) is 256 17-byte char strings, with the first 16 bytes readable.
03:17:51 <Lyka|Phone> the array is named cxarray[] for some reason I forgot
03:18:36 <Lyka|Phone> this is just for the testing environment
03:24:53 <Lyka|Phone> A0F6XF32C301SOB1 outputs the 7th byte in the 50th cxarray string
03:26:47 <Lyka|Phone> yes, I do have a command list printout in front of me...
03:30:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sempiedram * New user account
03:32:31 <Lyka|Phone> 246 is stored to cache cell 0, string 50 gets stored in cells 240 to 255 of the tape, the tape cell whose cell number matches the contents of cache cell 0 is stored in cache cell 1, contents of cache cell 1 is outputted to terminal in byte form
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04:40:33 <zzo38> Do you know if it can work to do MIDI with RJ-45 connection if you have two ways and also power on one way? How good/badly it can work?
04:40:43 <zzo38> What speeds might you have?
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05:43:04 <zzo38> For some purpose a function to convert singular to plural form is useful to have, but, you should not do it other way around because it cannot work, due to many plural words you cannot know what is the proper singular form out of context.
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10:01:16 <fungot> mroman_: we are aware of what is coming down the line of the last few days alone, a long time with regard to cod is what we wanted the commission to look into how the policies of the uk. most of the amendments which the commission tries to explain on behalf of the council, that you need that money for just four days in strasbourg.
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10:13:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43042 * Rdococ * (+1502) Created page with "The '''Table programming language''' is an esoteric, declarative table-oriented programming language by [[User:Rdococ]] in which everything is an '''associative array,''' or '..."
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10:18:26 <rdococ> can someone help me to find the lowest computational class?
10:19:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43043&oldid=42586 * Rdococ * (+215) /* My esoteric programming languages */
10:21:03 <rdococ> the reason I ask is, theoretically, if a finite state automata or decision tree could be infinitely large, it would be the same as a turing machine.
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10:24:28 <rdococ> also what I found peculiar while thinking about infinite state machines is that, if you implement them right, you can solve the halting problem and be sure that it is turing complete too
10:28:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43044&oldid=43042 * Rdococ * (+156)
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10:36:34 <oerjan> <tswett> When I set the neural net's "temperature" setting very low, the output consists almost exclusively of endless monologues delivered by oerjan to int-e. <-- i am going to assume this neural net gives a peek into a parallel universe where things are even more disturbing than in this one hth
10:37:13 <oerjan> maybe i actually took over the world there. poor parallel int-e.
10:38:13 <boily> His Majesty Hellørjan.
10:39:45 <oerjan> WHY DID YOU NOT TELL ME THE PEASANTS WERE REVOLTING?
10:39:55 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 8h 58m 1s ago: <boily> BLASPHEMY! there's a tvtropes fork? <-- there's a good argument that tvtropes has totally messed up a licensing change and is basically in massive copyright violation for everything before the change. also they deleted a lot of stuff for PC reasons. thus, forks. although i still visit tvtropes myself.
10:40:01 <oerjan> and that's why boily is no longer in the net output hth
10:41:04 <oerjan> someone also pointed out they renamed a lot of the fun page titles to be boring.
10:41:06 * boily does some interpretative post-modern dance to explain everything, with lots of twirling, jumping and unusual wobbliness
10:41:35 <oerjan> (well they didn't say exactly that, but it's what i remember)
10:41:56 <boily> I understand forking that.
10:42:29 * oerjan is slightly appeased but thinks boily has shown himself more suitable for a different job. fooily.
10:43:03 <oerjan> go ask Gregor for a suitable hat.
10:44:35 <boily> Grellogor. could I get a nice hat please?
10:48:13 <oerjan> parallel oerjan seems to use "same" a lot.
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10:55:39 <oerjan> @tell ais523 * ais523 vaguely ponders why, when defining tuples in terms of pairs, people tend to use the right-associative definition <-- i'd assume it's because it's (1) most similar to lists (2) easier to index from the beginning
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11:17:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: I think it's because of currying
11:18:16 <b_jonas> oerjan: as in, in haskell, a tuple (a,b,c) is represented as ((,,) a b c) which is like ((((,,) a) b) c)
11:18:29 <b_jonas> or is that the opposite associativity actually?
11:18:53 <b_jonas> (not that it actually matters eventually)
11:21:31 <oerjan> hm no, it can be read either way, dependent on how you split it
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11:53:41 <b_jonas> oh, the 2015 icfp contest is now announced
11:54:28 <b_jonas> at http://icfpcontest.org/ , starts on 2015-08-07
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11:56:19 <Taneb> b_jonas, where is the teaser?
11:57:15 * oerjan has no idea if today's xkcd has a point. maybe he should go to explain xkcd.
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12:28:55 <int-e> oerjan: I wonder whether any DNA ancestor analysis (what's the proper term for this?) played into that xkcd.
12:29:52 <oerjan> int-e: i have my doubts he got the DNA for some of these hth
12:30:53 <int-e> but you can do the same thing with strings.
12:32:09 <oerjan> genes are so stringly typed
12:32:42 * oerjan now suddenly imagines aliens with statically typed dna
12:33:48 * int-e thinks oerjan may be mixing up xkcd and a previous ICFP. (was Endo typed?)
12:34:09 <int-e> s/ICFP/ICFP contest/
12:34:40 <oerjan> int-e: hm today's girl genius expands my idea of how big the wulfenbach empire is. especially since i thought it had much collapsed during the time skip...
12:35:24 <oerjan> int-e: i'm far too lazy to have been reading ICFP contests that closely
12:36:02 <oerjan> int-e: also, monologue monologue the same as the monologue hth
12:37:28 <int-e> I missed the monologue remark.
12:37:49 <b_jonas> by the way, where's 2014 icfp site hosted now?
12:38:00 <b_jonas> the 2015 site continues the bad tradition of not bothering to link to previous years
12:38:23 <b_jonas> (years before that are at http://icfpc2013.cloudapp.net/ http://icfpcontest2012.wordpress.com/ http://icfpcontest2012.wordpress.com/previous-contests/
12:46:12 <int-e> I guess you could ask dcoutts.
12:46:37 <int-e> http://icfpconference.org/icfp2014/ <-- see the Programming Contest Co-Chairs
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13:29:23 <Koen_> I hate the new interface but they did fix a few glitches in the process
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14:15:08 <oren> I don't see a new interface
14:22:25 <oren> oh, on cell phones
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14:32:31 <Lyka> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/fourfuck%20language/Fourfuck%20v0-pre-alpha-0003a2%20-%20Command%20List.pdf
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14:33:32 <Lyka> that's the most recent attempt at a command list
14:36:52 <Lyka> seem usable yet?
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14:39:41 <MDude> I guess this means I'll eventually time travel to become Taneb.
14:40:05 <MDude> Oh, I'm scrolled up more than I thought, and missed that when it happened earlier.
14:40:06 <Taneb> MDude, I do not think that you will
14:40:24 <Taneb> I don't remember being you
14:41:08 <MDude> Pretty good evidence, but I don't entirely put it past future me to mess with my own memory for stupid reasons.
14:41:52 <MDude> Like maybe avoiding time travel police who'd recognize be by who I think I am.
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14:43:50 <Taneb> MDude, like in that book?
14:44:36 <MDude> There probably is a book with that in it.
14:44:40 <Taneb> "All You Zombies" I was thinking of
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15:47:23 <MDude> Oh yeah, I ought to go read that.
15:47:59 <Lyka> #Stores 16 charachers in "tape" and then outputs them. Uses 5 cells in "cache".
15:48:02 <Lyka> !A001A100A210C013[23_SIB4C243+303]23_C013[23_C634SOB4+303]23_Q000@
15:48:06 <Lyka> make any sense?
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16:22:20 <Taneb> MDude, they made a movie of it recently
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17:18:42 <oren> but hackego is still up? madness
17:20:18 <int-e> a dns problem, perhaps?
17:21:02 <oren> I tried whoising hackego and then putting that IP into seamonkey but it just returns a blank page
17:22:03 <oren> Also hackego is accessing irc thru lithuania
17:26:28 <int-e> 162.248.166.242 esolangs.org www.esolangs.org
17:28:53 <oren> esolangs.org is giving me
17:28:55 <oren> NOTICE: This domain name expired on 2015-05-24 and is pending renewal or deletion.
17:30:44 <int-e> oren: yes. what I meant is that adding that line to /etc/hosts works for me.
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17:34:37 <int-e> (it appears to be one of those namevirtualhosts thingies, so http://162.248.166.242/ doesn't work.
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17:37:03 -!- int-e has set topic: John Nash's beautiful mind has reached its final equilibrium | The Collatz files | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | no http://esolangs.org/ :-(.
17:48:32 <int-e> So is anyone mailing alan about his plans for the domain?
17:53:51 <fizzie> I should probably try.
17:54:08 <fizzie> I've sent some mails when rejiggeding the DNSes to point at the new thing.
17:56:07 <fizzie> Hmm, a whois check says it was just updated for a year.
17:56:24 <fizzie> Creation Date: 2005-05-24T19:21:16Z
17:56:24 <fizzie> Updated Date: 2015-05-25T11:25:26Z
17:56:24 <fizzie> Registry Expiry Date: 2016-05-24T19:21:16Z
17:57:04 <scoofy> but... it may sometimes take 24 hrs until the domain provider updates its records
17:57:08 <int-e> Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod -- http://www.icann.org/epp#autoRenewPeriod
17:57:32 <int-e> as far as I understand matters... as long as it says this it's expired.
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17:58:09 <int-e> (and godaddy will want to have some extortion money for reclaiming the domain :-/ ... but still far less than a domain grabber would take)
17:59:02 <fizzie> Huh, I was under the impression registrars didn't charge any extra fees for renewing during the grace period. Then again, I haven't let any domains relapse.
17:59:35 <fizzie> (Also I'm not clear on whether that status bit gets cleared if it gets renewed.)
17:59:59 -!- Xion_ has left.
18:00:08 <int-e> I have registered another domain that had expired, and I remember waiting for it to actually be released to save costs. But this may have been past the grace period, I forgot.
18:00:34 <int-e> In any case, the name server entries are wrong.
18:00:49 <int-e> (meaning they're not what we need)
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18:02:39 <fizzie> Yes. I'll email Alan in any case, even though it might be just delay in those changing.
18:03:06 <fizzie> Incidentally, do you happen to know offhand some non-expired registered-at-GoDaddy domain I could compare the whois records to?
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18:03:42 <oren> editing /etc/hosts doesn't seem to do it. hmmmm.....
18:03:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:04:20 <int-e> oren: you may have to restart the browser
18:07:38 <fizzie> "For many domain name extensions (such as .com, .net, and .org) there is a grace period allowing you to renew the domain name after expiration without penalty. After the grace period for these extensions, you must pay a redemption fee plus the cost of regular renewal if you want to keep the domain name."
18:08:42 <fizzie> Well, that's more of a question for Alan.
18:09:00 <int-e> maybe he wants to get rid of it, lost interest, etc
18:10:20 <fizzie> I'm not sure how much my email helps, since he's sure to have gotten an email about it already.
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18:13:27 <int-e> I mean, in the case that he lost interest, he might still care enough to initiate some domain transfer. If it's about money, I'm sure we can all chip in somehow. So let's see.
18:14:14 <scoofy> or maybe he just forgot to renew :)
18:14:34 <fizzie> Or maybe it was set on auto-renew and the card expired. There's so many possibilities.
18:14:44 <int-e> fizzie: in the meantime, thanks
18:15:41 <fizzie> As for the money, apparently there's no extra fee for GoDaddy up until the 19th day after expiration. After that, there's a $80 redemption fee, and from day 25 to day 42 a complicated-looking set of "expired domain auctions", "backorders" and "closeout auctions".
18:18:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:18:54 <int-e> The person who registered esolangs.org
18:23:28 <fizzie> Meanwhile-meanwhile, you can try a backup address http://esolangs.zem.fi/ -- though it may take a while for *that* to reach the DNS servers, and the SSL certificate will have the wrong name so no HTTPS (at least without nasty warnings).
18:24:23 -!- int-e has set topic: John Nash's beautiful mind has reached its final equilibrium | The Collatz files | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | no http://esolangs.org/ ; try http://esolangs.zem.fi/.
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18:53:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.zem.fi/w/index.php?diff=43045&oldid=43039 * 78.245.243.132 * (+1965) formatting help!!
18:54:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.zem.fi/w/index.php?diff=43046&oldid=43045 * 78.245.243.132 * (+19) category: stubs
18:57:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.zem.fi/w/index.php?diff=43047&oldid=43046 * 78.245.243.132 * (-9) stubs using the {{ }} thingy
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19:29:08 <FreeFull> Has anyone used Picat for anything?
19:29:52 <zzo38> I do not know what it is
19:30:16 <zzo38> O, now I found it on Wikipedia.
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21:32:15 <fizzie> The domain is now allegedly renewed, so things should return to normal.
21:38:51 <fizzie> There was also a suggestion for someone else "active in the community" to take it. And/or me, although I certainly don't feel especially "active".
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21:39:17 <ais523> is this the Alan Dipert?
21:39:55 <fizzie> I was under the impression he didn't want to give it up, but maybe times have changed.
21:41:03 <oren> W007. it didn't work with urxvt
21:46:46 <fizzie> I don't think so? The mythology is kind of confusing.
21:48:08 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: the alan dipert owns the domain name "esolangs.org"; graue owns the domain name and server "esoteric.voxelperfect.net"
21:48:37 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: the early quotes about the name have a "the" prepended
21:48:40 <ais523> and I've been using it ever since
21:48:56 <Sgeo> I've been called "a Sgeo" once
21:49:05 <ais523> the name comes up rarely enough that it's jarring whenever I say it
21:49:19 <Sgeo> Although I think in context it made grammatical sense?
21:49:23 <fizzie> Oh, I thought it was like "von" in German etc.
21:49:43 <fizzie> Although I guess that doesn't make sense, it's in front of the first name.
21:49:59 <fizzie> Maybe some sort of a title then.
21:50:01 <Sgeo> http://creaturesonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=364
21:50:08 <Sgeo> "Apparently there was a patch made by a Sgeo once upon a time, but I can't find it. - See more at: http://creaturesonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=364#sthash.ES3upSBL.dpuf"
21:50:18 <Sgeo> Oh ugh copy/paste gunk
21:50:32 <ais523> Sgeo: we still have the candelabrum underwater patch in NH4 :-)
21:50:42 <Sgeo> ais523, cool :)
21:50:46 <ais523> which reminds me, you're credited as "Sgeo"
21:50:53 <ais523> are you happy with that credit or would you prefer something else?
21:51:37 <Sgeo> Hmm, I'm not sure. Would '"Sgeo" (Seth Gold)' make sense?
21:52:14 <ais523> I mostly use either realname or nick; most people use realname
21:52:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, imho Seth 'Sgeo' Gold is the better format to use there
21:52:48 <ais523> I hate that format ;-)
21:53:00 <ais523> there's nobody credited by both realname and nick atm (except possibly by mistake)
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21:53:24 <ais523> I tried to vote lib dem 5 years ago but there was a screwup
21:53:29 <ais523> in the proxy vote forms
21:53:37 <ais523> (I was in Canada at the time, making it hard to vote in person)
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21:56:35 <ais523> this time round I voted for the Conservatives because they were the only viable party a) in favour of austerity, b) that I thought had even vaguely realistic plans to implement it
21:56:48 <ais523> if not for the economy I'd probably have voted Green
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21:57:16 <Phantom_Hoover> every economist i've seen has said it was a terrible, growth-killing idea
21:57:29 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: well you can't keep growth up indefinitely
21:57:44 <ais523> growth is only good for its benefits to quality of life
21:57:56 <ais523> in all other ways, it hurts rather than helps, because you're using up more resources
21:58:01 <Phantom_Hoover> you voted for the tories because you thought they'd benefit the quality of life
21:58:25 <Phantom_Hoover> the vast majority of recent economic growth has been due to increases in efficiency, not increases in consumption
21:59:15 <ais523> I voted for them because I didn't trust any other viable option to run the economy
21:59:32 <ais523> (however, my vote didn't decide the result in my constituency, so…)
22:00:22 <ais523> anyway I'm upset because the Conservatives got more of a majority than I wanted
22:00:32 <ais523> I was hoping that there'd be random rebellions and the like to keep them in check
22:00:46 <ais523> (I was really hoping for a Conservative/Labour coalition, but no way will that happen in anything even approximately resembling the current political client)
22:01:29 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: feel free to disagree with me
22:01:42 <ais523> that was such a hard choice to make this year, I didn't really like any of the parties :-(
22:01:46 <Phantom_Hoover> i suppose i can't actually draw any general conclusions about why anyone would think it's a good idea to vote for them, because you do everything by your own weird logic
22:02:42 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: well, enough of the country voted Conservative to give them a majority, and I think it's mostly to do with the lack of options
22:02:54 <ais523> (especially if you define "the country" as "England" rather than "the UK")
22:03:22 <ais523> "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
22:03:28 <Phantom_Hoover> i can see why english voters thought labour weren't an option, though i think their reasons for doing so were completely misguided
22:03:33 <ais523> which isn't quite accurate because it misses out places like Anglesey and the Hebrides, but it's close enough
22:03:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think many of them did so as an ideological stance against economic growth, though...
22:04:04 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's basically reached the point where even if you agreed with every one of their policies, you don't trust them to implement them
22:04:42 <Phantom_Hoover> more or less. i voted for them anyway because it seemed like the best trajectory towards things becoming less shit
22:05:13 <ais523> which is a hard place for Labour to be in because it's hard to think of anything they could say to solve that problem
22:05:26 <ais523> hmm, are things in a bad way in Scotland atm? if so, it'd explain the near-universal SNP vote
22:05:46 <ais523> they aren't obviously doing badly in England (e.g. unemployment has been dropping)
22:06:08 <Phantom_Hoover> because the tories created a bunch of fake jobs, essentially. but i digress.
22:06:34 <Phantom_Hoover> the snp has been in government in scotland for like 8 years so that's not why they did so well
22:06:48 <ais523> they did pretty badly at Westminster last election, though
22:06:58 <ais523> and this time they've basically swapped places with the Lib Dems
22:07:13 <ais523> which is kind-of surprising given how they're restricted to a relatively small-by-population part of the country
22:07:59 <Phantom_Hoover> they focused on the scottish parliament until they managed to get a majority (despite the system being designed to prevent any one party doing so), then they went for the referendum, and after that they focused on westminster
22:08:24 <ais523> well they lost the referendum
22:08:43 <ais523> (which is probably indirectly a good thing from my point of view, because I'm counting on Scotland to swing the EU referendum to "stay in")
22:08:53 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: there were /two options/
22:08:57 <ais523> 55% is an even bigger landslide
22:09:24 <ais523> hmm, that's an interesting theory
22:09:49 <ais523> the main problems with it are: a) there's only two constituencies in Scotland who ever vote Conservative (and one of them did so this time); b) the Lib Dems have completely collapsed
22:09:52 <oren> the scotland thing reminded me of quebec
22:09:54 <ais523> so what are the other options?
22:10:13 <ais523> but the other minor options? UKIP? Green?
22:10:56 <alandipert> the alan dipert here, apologies for my delinquency
22:11:09 <ais523> I didn't even know you used IRC
22:11:13 <Phantom_Hoover> scotland might have almost no tory seats, and now almost no lib dem ones, but they're still a substantial fraction of the vote
22:11:14 <ais523> glad to meet you, anyway; I never have
22:11:51 <ais523> now I'm trying to work out if you can make politics into an esolang
22:12:23 <alandipert> apropos: previous conversation i'm happy to relinquish the domain to anyone willing to manage it
22:12:57 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: alandipert is the owner of esolangs.org (the domain name)
22:13:37 <Phantom_Hoover> if you're satoshi why have you not just bought all the websites with your bitcoin fortune
22:13:45 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: maybe he or she /has/
22:13:55 <fizzie> I do host the DNS servers for the domain, so in some ways it would make sense to control the domain, so I wouldn't need to ask anyone if I need to point it at a different nameserver or something.
22:13:57 <ais523> ("alan" might be a male name, but I have no idea about "satoshi"
22:16:18 <ais523> or, hmm, I have /something/ of an idea because I've seen a bunch of Japanese names, but not enough to definitively draw patterns in them
22:17:15 <fizzie> Not so sure I like the aspect of paying for it all that much, though, but maybe I can scam some channel regulars to chip in. Also, I'd need to locate a sane domain registrar first. (gandi's the only one I've heard more than one person recommend, but they have a -- trivial, but still -- premium in their prices.)
22:17:26 <oren> satoshi is generally a male name
22:17:27 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Maybe because, they don't want to, or because they don't accept bitcoins, or even all of a lot isn't quite enough, or they don't have any bitcoins left, or possibly different reason.
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22:20:42 <alandipert> fizzie, i'm off, drop me a line if you'd like to work out a transfer. we have a year to figure something out :-)
22:20:45 <fizzie> alandipert: I'll e-mail you once I've thought it over and looked for a domain place.
22:22:52 <alandipert> oh, if anyone is interested, this is a clojure version of 99 bottles: https://gist.github.com/alandipert/1795629
22:25:39 <Phantom_Hoover> alandipert, how did you end up with the esolangs.org domain anyway
22:27:20 <Phantom_Hoover> you actually can isometrically embed the torus into R^3
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22:28:38 <Phantom_Hoover> http://math.univ-lyon1.fr/~borrelli/Hevea/Presse/image_tore_PNAS_reduite.jpg
22:32:31 <oren> oh so it is like an accordion
22:32:57 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: hm slightly different definition of isometric than i'd immediately think of
22:34:30 <oerjan> now is that embedding smooth
22:35:37 <oerjan> i guess it cannot be, as fractal as it looks
22:35:46 <oerjan> ...what's its hausdorff dimension
22:36:28 <ais523> huh, today is a public holiday in the US and UK at the same time, for different reasons?
22:36:32 <ais523> how often does /that/ happen?
22:37:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:37:37 <oerjan> (in which case it's also a public holiday in norway)
22:38:04 <ais523> in the UK it's triggering under a "last Monday in May" clause, I think
22:38:19 <ais523> we have some public holidays designed to create long weekends that statistically have nice weather
22:38:21 <oerjan> in norway it's triggering as the monday following pentecost
22:38:23 <ais523> and this is one of htem
22:38:38 <oerjan> so _three_ different reasons :)
22:40:43 <oerjan> and none of them guaranteed to be simultaneous in a random year afaict
22:41:11 <oerjan> or wait maybe the uk and us ones are
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22:42:11 <oerjan> seems they are both always the last monday in may
22:44:07 <zzo38> I wrote many calendar operation programming in TeX; if you have stuff about holidays to contribute I can add that too
22:48:00 <zzo38> I already have program to calculate Easter and leap years, and I have Julian, Gregorian, and Discordan calendars, and names of months and days of week in many languages (including the names used in the calendar included with Zork), many Canadian holidays, a few US holidays, and one Japanese holiday.
22:48:05 <oerjan> i don't think norway has any official holidays of the "nth ...day in <month>" kind, although mother's and father's day are unofficial ones
22:48:38 <oerjan> hm maybe election day, although that's not really a holiday either
22:49:03 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: ...day is supposed to stand in for a weekday there
22:50:49 <zzo38> I do have support for such things as "first Monday of February", "the last Tuesday before the last Tuesday of March", "the next Sunday after January 15", and so on.
22:51:10 <zzo38> No support for equinoxes and solstices yet though, nor for phases of the moon.
22:54:21 <oerjan> oh there's no "nth" in the election day, it's a monday in september but which one is decided by the government
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23:07:03 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> is alan dipert graue <-- no, graue's real name is scott
23:07:39 <oerjan> is surname is feeney, not aaronson hth
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23:50:21 <Lyka> the wiki seems alitte weird
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23:56:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Fourfuck]] N http://esolangs.zem.fi/w/index.php?oldid=43048 * Lesidhetree * (+281) Created page with "Not sure who edited the main page, not that i don't appreciate the formatting help, but Fourfuck is not yet finalized enough for some of that. I'll make an attempt to fill in ..."
23:57:41 <Lyka> is there a problem with the wiki's server?
23:58:07 <oerjan> Lyka: the domain name temporarily expired, it should fix itself soon
23:58:35 <Lyka> then how ami able to access the site?
23:58:47 -!- GeekDude has joined.
23:58:55 <oerjan> well it may have been fixed already. i think there's something else...
23:59:05 <oerjan> fizzie: the wiki seems to be missing CSS...
23:59:27 <Lyka> http://esolangs.zem.fi/wiki/Main_Page seems to look better..