00:00:23 -!- mitchs_ has left.
00:00:58 <boily> hezzo38. helloren. that is disgusting!
00:01:24 <boily> it was pouring here yesterday, with rainy rain and watery drops.
00:01:37 <boily> your metar must be one of the longest I've ever seen!
00:01:48 <boily> (and your station's still in need of some maintenance)
00:02:08 <boily> tomorrow, the clouds will be pokable. no bike for me then.
00:02:18 <boily> the `$' at the end.
00:02:35 <boily> something like that, yes.
00:03:34 <quintopia> i have no idea what all that stuff after RMK means
00:04:36 <quintopia> so have you got a functional fast computron ytet
00:06:54 <boily> AO2 is something. SLP is Sea Level Pressure (1022.1 hPa). P0002 is also something. 60108 is definitely something. but T02000178 is something else, whereas 10289 is approximatively something. I think 20194 is something, and so is 55007.
00:07:39 <boily> not yet. social life (and not quite social life) got in the way.
00:07:47 <quintopia> half of those things could be random garbage
00:08:12 <boily> those fields have meaning; I just can't remember them as they are US specific.
00:08:38 <boily> something to do with temperature and pressure changes in the last hours, cumulative precipitations, etc...
00:09:21 <lambdabot> CYVR 270000Z 22008KT 20SM FEW030 FEW045 SCT250 18/13 A3001 RMK SC1SC1CS2 TR AC SLP163 DENSITY ALT 200FT
00:10:15 <boily> zzo38: west coast?
00:10:38 <zzo38> Yes, CYVR is Vancouver airport.
00:10:51 <lambdabot> KOAK 262353Z 27013KT 10SM FEW020 17/09 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP156 T01670094 10183 20133 57007
00:11:10 <boily> zzo38: I meant to ask: you're there? I admit the question was poorly phrased.
00:11:26 <zzo38> Yes I live near there
00:11:34 <boily> quintopia: see, even shachaf has the Mysterious Number Fields.
00:11:47 <shachaf> every METAR field is a mysterious number field hth
00:11:48 * boily checks the The File just to make sure...
00:12:08 <boily> indeed. zzo38 lives over there.
00:12:22 <shachaf> boily: zzo38's whereabouts are revealed in the whois database hth
00:13:06 <zzo38> The airport is a local call from here and so is the studio that make Slugterra television shows (I did call them, and they asked me if I was calling from Canada)
00:13:08 <boily> shachaf: yes, but this is too straightforward.
00:13:32 <zzo38> The mailing address in the WHOIS will reach me as long as you put my name (Aaron Black) on it.
00:13:38 -!- variable has changed nick to function.
00:13:57 <shachaf> What sort of mail would I send you?
00:14:11 <zzo38> Probably nothing; I am just mentioning it in case it is ever important.
00:16:45 <quintopia> also where does that nick come from?
00:17:49 <zzo38> I do not remember where the nick comes from. I called the TV show to ask how to buy the tapes
00:18:34 <boily> quintopia: I now know what to mail you next.
00:18:55 <boily> quintopia: I tried phoning zzo38, but either it's not the right number, or he doesn't want to answer.
00:19:17 <quintopia> boily: there is no good reason for him to answer
00:19:26 <quintopia> boily: he can answer any question you have right here
00:20:12 <zzo38> Yes, I can answer the question here. The telephone number listed on the WHOIS is not guaranteed to reach me, and I do not recommend using it.
00:20:17 <quintopia> zzo38: i can't see myself being interested in this tv show
00:20:38 <zzo38> If you don't like it, that's OK, but I and my brother do like it even though it is a bit strange kind of TV show
00:21:08 <quintopia> zzo38: is your brother younger than you
00:21:12 <zzo38> It isn't absolutely the best kind of television show, but, it does seem to have better captions than some
00:21:27 <zzo38> I don't want to tell you my brother's age
00:21:45 <quintopia> i don't know your age, so telling me whether he is younger wouldn't tell me his age
00:22:36 <zzo38> I know, but still I don't want to tell you.
00:58:32 -!- function has changed nick to const.
01:01:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
01:14:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
01:21:17 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:24:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BILATERAL CHICKEN).
01:49:27 -!- const has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero).
01:56:30 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:56:54 -!- variable has joined.
01:59:10 <lambdabot> CYYZ 270100Z 19009KT 15SM FEW120 SCT260 26/17 A2995 RMK AC1CI2 SLP138 DENSITY ALT 1900FT
02:19:10 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
02:21:44 -!- tromp has joined.
02:27:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:41:20 -!- variable has changed nick to invariable.
03:06:03 -!- KnightArm0 has joined.
03:06:27 -!- KnightArm0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:32:17 -!- tromp has joined.
03:51:32 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
04:01:11 <zzo38> Which are the most common internet language codes?
04:06:07 <Sgeo> "The Oracle database actually uses CESU-8 for its "UTF8" character set."
04:06:51 <zzo38> Then they should not call it "UTF8" since that can cause confusion
04:06:55 <oren> what happens if you input a four-byte code for a high-plane character?
04:09:17 <Sgeo> How pathetic is it that a type of bug is so common it's effectively its own encoding?
04:15:20 <pikhq> So many stuff stuck using UTF-16.
04:18:17 <oren> `echo "a=%c1 _pa a=%8F _pa" | scrip7
04:18:18 <HackEgo> "a=%c1 _pa a=%8F _pa" | scrip7
04:18:27 <oren> `run echo "a=%c1 _pa a=%8F _pa" | scrip7
04:18:28 <HackEgo> -63 \ 18:Can only logarithm numbers.
04:19:32 <oren> `run echo "a=%c1 _pa a=%8f _pa" | scrip7
04:19:53 <oren> `run echo "a=%c1 _.a a=%8f _.a" | scrip7
04:20:16 <oren> Theoretically, the above is a capital O
04:20:40 <oren> `run echo "a=%c0 _.a a=%80 _.a" | scrip7
04:21:06 <oren> Ok, the above isn't right!
04:21:23 <oren> `run echo "a=%c0 _.a a=%80 _.a" | scrip7
04:21:42 <oren> `run echo "a=%c0 _.a a=%81 _.a" | scrip7
04:22:18 <oren> I wonder why an overlong encoding of U+0000 gets displayed like that?
04:22:34 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).
04:24:51 <zzo38> My opinion is that CLI messages, commands, protocols, etc should be in American English (even though I am Canadian) but that documentation and GUIs should be localized to whatever is your language (e.g. Canadian) (I mean documentation for CLIs can be localized too). What is your opinion of this kind of things?
04:29:51 <MDude> CLI messages should be in Sarus.
04:30:56 <MDude> Or, specifically in a variant of english based on military radio communication.
04:36:29 <oren> CLI messages should be in the user's language as far as is possible, but perhaps each message should be repeated in formal english for clarity of technical terms which are lacking in many lanuages.
04:38:07 <oren> (In japanese most of the technical terms are katakanized english anyway, so maybe for japanese I wouldn't bother)
04:39:46 <zzo38> No I think they should be ASCII
04:43:47 <MDude> With Sarus, you don't even need multiple characters. Just 8 font colors.
04:44:33 <oren> Would it be possible to color the english message with the sarus message
04:48:33 <pikhq> oren: Japanese technical terms are funny...
04:49:01 <pikhq> oren: They're either katakanized English, or creative use of Japanese Chinese-origin morphemes to calque Latin.
04:53:37 <MDude> Only if there's a tem in Sarus that works.
04:54:39 <MDude> Sarus has a very small, context-dependant vocabulary.
04:57:09 <MDude> Probalby more suited to being a form of assemlber.
04:59:22 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:07:11 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
05:10:37 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
05:40:43 -!- TieSoul has joined.
05:53:50 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone.
06:12:04 -!- invariable has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
06:31:57 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away.
06:47:17 -!- hilquias` has joined.
06:48:14 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
08:02:10 <coppro> (not on a computer where I can turn that into katakana easily, but try searching the kana)
08:02:29 <coppro> `unicode (KATAKANA LETTER RI) (KATAKANA LETTER NI) (KATAKANA LETTER A)
08:02:44 <HackEgo> cat: unicode: No such file or directory
08:02:49 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ # -*- encoding: utf-8 -*- \ import re \ import sys, os \ import unicodedata \ def l(c): m = re.match('(?:U[+])?([0-9a-f]{1,5})$', c, re.I); return unicodedata.lookup(c) if m is None else unichr(int(m.group(1),16)) \ try: \ print u''.join(map(l, sys.argv[1:])).encode('utf-8') \ except KeyError: \ os.execvp("multico
08:03:39 <coppro> `unicode "KATAKANA LETTER RI" "KATAKANA LETTER NI" "KATAKANA LETTER A"
08:04:36 <coppro> `unicode U+30EA U+30CB U+30A2
08:05:28 <coppro> `unicode U+30ea U+30cb U+30a2
08:15:23 <augur> http://languagengine.co/blog/sierpinski-triangles-in-bitwise-logic
08:15:25 <augur> if anyone's interested
08:15:39 <augur> i think i showed the channel this a long long time ago but i decided to write a blog post about it now, so
08:15:46 <augur> with interactive things!
08:29:58 -!- Patashu has joined.
08:43:06 <augur> myname: isnt it? its such a cool little thing
08:43:41 <myname> i am tempted to play around with it myself
08:54:47 -!- hjulle has joined.
09:29:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Excess Flood).
09:30:41 -!- copumpkin has joined.
10:18:10 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:19:04 -!- ski has joined.
10:32:13 <fizzie> `run unicode "KATAKANA LETTER RI" "KATAKANA LETTER NI" "KATAKANA LETTER A"
10:32:27 <fizzie> coppro: ^ -- the thing with `foo passing everything in one argument strikes again.
10:32:35 -!- boily has joined.
10:33:03 <fizzie> (It's useful, up until the point when it's not.)
10:39:30 <Taneb> I find it a little weird we can talk about the GCD in an unordered ring
10:42:33 <b_jonas> Taneb: call it "special common divisor" if you prefer
10:43:02 <Taneb> b_jonas, I don't mind the terminology, it just shakes my notion of how it's defined a little :)
10:45:09 <b_jonas> it's special because all common divisors divide it
10:47:54 <fungot> mroman_: that's right! he'll show you! he'll show you! he'll show you all the java libraries with sisc. must be at least.
10:48:44 <HackEgo> [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A]
10:48:50 <mroman_> 1unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER A
10:48:52 <mroman_> `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER A
10:49:23 <HackEgo> U+30DD KATAKANA LETTER PO \ UTF-8: e3 83 9d UTF-16BE: 30dd Decimal: ポ \ ポ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 30DB 309A
10:49:33 <mroman_> `unicode KATAKANA LETTER RO
10:49:58 <HackEgo> U+30A4 KATAKANA LETTER I \ UTF-8: e3 82 a4 UTF-16BE: 30a4 Decimal: イ \ イ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
10:50:04 <mroman_> `unicode KATAKANA LETTER A
10:50:19 <mroman_> `unicode KATAKANA LETTER A; KATAKANA LETTER PO
10:53:36 <HackEgo> [U+30A2 KATAKANA LETTER A] [U+30ED KATAKANA LETTER RO] [U+30A4 KATAKANA LETTER I] [U+30A2 KATAKANA LETTER A] [U+30DD KATAKANA LETTER PO]
10:53:52 <mroman_> `unicode [KATAKANA LETTER A] [KATAKANA LETTER I]
10:53:53 <HackEgo> U+0009 <control> \ UTF-8: 09 UTF-16BE: 0009 Decimal: 	 \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: S (Segment Separator) \ \ U+000B <control> \ UTF-8: 0b UTF-16BE: 000b Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: S (Segment Separator) \ \ U+000D <control> \ UTF-8: 0d UTF-16BE: 000d Decimal: \
10:54:24 <mroman_> `uniencode [KATAKANA LETTER A] [KATAKANA LETTER I]
10:54:24 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uniencode: not found
10:56:28 <boily> mrhelloman_. I think it's easier to install an IME and type it the way it is :/
10:57:18 <boily> (of course, the geek value greatly decreases from an unbelievable unicode-long-names-over-irc-bot to the run-of-the-mill IME.)
11:18:27 <mroman_> fatal error: uchar.h: No such file or directory
11:19:35 <int-e> seems you have no C11 support
11:21:38 <mroman_> --std=c11 is accepted though
11:25:56 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined.
11:27:19 <int-e> well, s/no/incomplete/
11:29:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INFLATED CHICKEN).
11:30:21 -!- shikhout has joined.
11:31:19 -!- b_jonas_ has joined.
11:32:51 -!- b_jonas has quit (Disconnected by services).
11:32:59 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas.
11:35:15 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
11:35:15 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
11:36:38 -!- TieSoul_ has joined.
11:39:08 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
12:05:06 <coppro> anyway, I went and saw the リニア. it was cool
12:08:53 -!- idris-bot has joined.
12:29:41 <fizzie> mroman_: I *just* demonstrated above how it can do multiple.
12:29:55 <fizzie> `run unicode 'KATAKANA LETTER A' 'KATAKANA LETTER PO'
12:31:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:31:20 <fizzie> (I guess it needs a DWIM wrapper that guesstimates a separator, ignores surrounding markers etc.)
12:34:20 <b_jonas> `unicode PLUS SIGN; BELL; WUZXNOQNKA 8
12:34:51 <b_jonas> `unicode "PLUS SIGN" "BELL" "WUZXNOQNKA 8"
12:35:13 <mroman_> `run unicode "PLUS SIGN" "MINUS SIGN"
12:35:19 <b_jonas> `run unicode "PLUS SIGN" "BELL" "WUZXNOQNKA 8"
12:35:28 <mroman_> omg new brainfuck derivative!
12:35:34 <HackEgo> U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET \ UTF-8: 5b UTF-16BE: 005b Decimal: [ \ [ \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
12:35:36 <HackEgo> U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET \ UTF-8: 5d UTF-16BE: 005d Decimal: ] \ ] \ Category: Pe (Punctuation, Close) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
12:35:43 <b_jonas> it's called HYPHEN-MINUS by the way
12:36:04 <b_jonas> MINUS SIGN is the wrong one
12:36:16 <mroman_> "LEFT SQUARE BRACKET" "HYPHEN-MINUS" "RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET"
12:37:49 <b_jonas> and "MINUS SIGN" is a comment, right?
12:50:08 -!- SopaXT has joined.
12:54:22 -!- rdococ has joined.
12:59:12 <mroman_> comments are very bloaty though
12:59:26 <mroman_> "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C" "LATIN SMALL LETER O" and so on
13:34:00 -!- `^_^v has joined.
13:35:48 -!- lleu has joined.
13:35:48 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host).
13:35:48 -!- lleu has joined.
13:37:32 <Taneb> I am feeling a little more confident for my Groups, Rings, and Fields exam tomorrow
13:43:12 -!- oerjan has joined.
13:43:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43065&oldid=41760 * Rottytooth * (+111) added note about encoding
13:58:45 -!- mitchs has joined.
14:08:09 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:10:49 -!- zadock has joined.
14:13:45 -!- SopaXT has joined.
14:19:15 <oerjan> <Taneb> I find it a little weird we can talk about the GCD in an unordered ring <-- it's actually a special kind of categorical product (in a partial pre-order category), and the fact it's not necessarily unique is the same as categorical products/coproducts/universal properties being defined only up to isomorphism
14:19:39 <Taneb> Oooh, category theory
14:19:43 <Taneb> It gets everywhere
14:19:49 <Taneb> Just like Noam Chomsky
14:21:38 <b_jonas> wait… categorical product? … that sounds plausible, I dunno
14:21:54 <oerjan> b_jonas: morphism between a and b iff a divides b
14:21:59 -!- Weloxux has joined.
14:22:05 <b_jonas> but I'd just think of that as a lattice operation
14:22:18 <oerjan> yes, and those are also that kind of product
14:22:22 <b_jonas> where the inequality in the lattice is given by divides
14:22:27 <Taneb> b_jonas, all lattices are categories
14:22:44 <oerjan> b_jonas: the thing is, lattices usually are antisymmetric, that's the thing we drop here
14:24:07 <oerjan> i.e. you can have two "meets" that are not equal
14:24:09 <b_jonas> oerjan: you need the power of categorical product when there's more than one element that each have a homomorphism to the others, to make the product more specific (hopefully unique) than the max in the partial order or homomorphisms
14:25:10 <oerjan> b_jonas: i'm just saying gcd in a ring does not give a lattice because it's a preorder, not an order
14:25:16 <b_jonas> this is useful in the category of graphs with graph homomorphisms where the categorical product gives the cartesian product (up to graph isomorphism), which is more specific than what you just get from partial order (which gives it up to homomorphic equivalence)
14:26:16 <oerjan> (also it's not necessarily always defined)
14:27:24 <b_jonas> sure, you can't have gcd on all rings
14:40:09 <oerjan> <Taneb> I am feeling a little more confident for my Groups, Rings, and Fields exam tomorrow <-- just make sure it's really tomorrow twh
14:41:16 * oerjan still vaguely remembers sitting in the university canteen when he was supposed to have a group theory exam
14:42:47 <Taneb> oerjan, I am not making that mistake again
14:43:24 <Taneb> Well, I got the wrong time for an exam
14:43:35 <Taneb> Thought it was a Wednesday, it was actually a Tuesday
14:43:39 <Taneb> Jeez, that was two years ago
14:43:45 <Taneb> Three years ago, even
14:44:21 <Taneb> 28th of May at 9 AM (presumably BST)
14:46:39 <Taneb> I know at least which building that is in
14:46:49 <Taneb> And I only know of one room suitable for lectures in there
14:50:27 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude.
15:08:35 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
15:12:50 -!- Weloxux has changed nick to Hato.
15:12:57 -!- Hato has changed nick to Welo.
15:14:51 -!- hilquias` has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:16:49 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:21:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Goto]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43066 * Rdococ * (+624) Goto statement considered esoteric
15:26:48 <SopaXT> e.g RA = 1, GOTO printH, RA = 2, GOTO printE, ...
15:27:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
15:28:11 -!- GeekDude has joined.
15:39:29 -!- variable has joined.
15:42:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
16:04:00 -!- guydreich has joined.
16:04:00 -!- teuchter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:06:25 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:10:11 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving).
16:15:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:17:01 -!- scoofy has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:24:26 -!- scoofy has joined.
16:41:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
16:54:20 <lambdabot> CYYZ 271600Z 22014G24KT 15SM BKN045 BKN250 27/16 A2997 RMK CU6CI1 SLP145 DENSITY ALT 1900FT
16:58:33 <oren> Yeah, I heard about the ﾘﾆｱﾗｲﾅｰ. I think it is supposed to be parsed as "Linear Liner"
17:07:28 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
17:10:15 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul.
17:12:02 -!- SopaXT has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
17:13:48 -!- SopaXT has joined.
17:19:57 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: g2g).
17:20:12 -!- Weloxux has joined.
17:20:52 -!- Weloxux has quit (Client Quit).
17:21:03 -!- Welo has joined.
17:23:55 -!- int-e has set topic: John Nash's beautiful mind has reached its final equilibrium | The Collatz files | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/.
17:41:04 -!- SopaXT has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:00:11 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).
18:23:04 -!- ZombieAlive has joined.
18:26:29 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
18:46:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43067&oldid=43043 * Rdococ * (-205) /* My esoteric programming languages */
18:47:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43068&oldid=43067 * Rdococ * (+23) /* My unfinished programming languages */
19:00:31 <zzo38> I read in some book it explain a "momentum state"; to try to calculate the quantum momentum I can see how it is working. And then, they wrote about "wave pack state" which again I try to calculate the momentum, but I don't know if it is properly but I can see now it has a imaginary nonzero and is a variable number too but I don't know if I calculated it properly, I know it isn't well-defined though because they say so.
19:00:35 <zzo38> How is proper way?
19:06:14 <int-e> hah. "raw material" (oerjan will likely pick up on this later)
19:09:11 -!- Herbalist has joined.
19:09:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
19:23:12 <b_jonas> metafont is a really sick twisted programming language
19:23:51 <b_jonas> I knew this already, but I'm saying again
19:24:06 <b_jonas> I should try to write some nice deceptive obfuscations abusing it.
19:31:27 -!- variable has joined.
19:52:01 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:54:02 -!- bb010g has joined.
19:59:38 <FireFly> I read that as "descriptive", which I guess is exactly what it isn't
20:01:21 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:02:35 <olsner> descriptive obfuscation might be delightfully deceptive
20:03:25 <zzo38> METAFONT is a bit unusual programming language, but it is good for what it is meant for.
20:03:54 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
20:04:13 <b_jonas> The favourite ever deceptive obfu I've ever seen is http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=337612 which masquarades as a question about broken code by a confused newbie.
20:04:30 <zzo38> Such as to do fonts and graphics
20:06:19 <zzo38> Normally it only does pure black/white but it is possible to do other stuff with it to if you make multiple layers and then add specials to tell it how to combine together and another program will command ImageMagick with the stuff in the specials, for example.
20:06:24 -!- Melvar has joined.
20:06:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: yep, metapost uses the same paths but different images and produces postscript/pdf vector output
20:07:20 <b_jonas> (also cymk maybe? I don't remember)
20:08:38 <zzo38> I don't know either, although that isn't what I was talking about; I meant using METAFONT to make raster output.
20:09:04 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:09:13 <b_jonas> I've used metapost for graphics
20:09:26 <b_jonas> I haven't used metafont much, except for simple tests that would work in metapost too
20:09:34 <zzo38> I don't really like PostScript and PDF
20:09:39 <b_jonas> an obfu could use whichever you prefer
20:10:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: the postscript output of metafont is of a restricted format so you can parse it (that's how it can be converted to pdf) and converted to some other vector stuff
20:10:16 <b_jonas> (though of course you could also use a full postscript interpreter for that)
20:10:43 <b_jonas> as in, you can parse it much more easily than running arbitrary postscript
20:11:40 <zzo38> I did make chess icons with METAFONT too
20:12:05 <b_jonas> The mouthes of TeX and METAFONT are somewhat similar, but have lots of differences. Both can do things the other can't.
20:13:21 <zzo38> Yes, I can see that too.
20:13:56 <b_jonas> in particular, fast skipping tokens inside conditions or definitions work very similar in the two languages
20:14:28 <zzo38> I have also written all sort of calendar-related calculation support in TeX
20:15:08 <zzo38> (And a algebraic chess notation parser in TeX)
20:15:59 <b_jonas> did the calendar thing have a real purpose, or is it just eso/obfu?
20:16:00 <zzo38> (It can also parse FEN)
20:16:39 <zzo38> b_jonas: Well, I intended that I can add stuff to print out calendars if I want to do that
20:16:45 <b_jonas> also, is it pure TeX, or does it use the help of external programs?
20:16:54 <zzo38> It is purely in TeX.
20:17:16 <b_jonas> sure, printing calendars can make sense, but that doesn't mean you have to do the calculations in TeX
20:18:09 <zzo38> Well, yes, I also wrote a DVI maker library in Haskell too, so you can use that too if you like to
20:19:36 <zzo38> But I found I can do it just fine in TeX, except that I currently have no equinox/solstice/phase-of-moon
20:21:37 <b_jonas> do you compute easter? or look it up from a table of a thousand easters?
20:21:50 <zzo38> I do compute Easter
20:22:10 <scoofy> just use getJesusResurrectDate();
20:22:16 <b_jonas> I guess it's actually shorter without a table, because there's pretty short expressions for it
20:22:27 <zzo38> I have no sunrise/sunset currently
20:22:31 <b_jonas> which use only basic integer arithmetic
20:23:17 <b_jonas> (provided of course that you want it to work for a few centuries)
20:23:48 <scoofy> even your grand-grand-grand-grand-grandkids will be able to use it
20:23:56 <zzo38> This is the file so far http://sprunge.us/EafF
20:24:29 -!- tromp_ has joined.
20:24:34 <zzo38> Also, TeX seem to be the real portable programming language; it is compatible in past and future forever.
20:24:48 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
20:25:45 <b_jonas> (of course it's also possible to write C programs with a restricted subset of C that are compatible in past and future forever, but you have to limit what you choose)
20:26:22 <scoofy> is there an operating system written in TeX?
20:27:06 <scoofy> i don't know, but if it's portable, the os would be portable, too
20:27:27 <zzo38> You can see in my file how is day of Easter calculated.
20:28:57 -!- tromp__ has joined.
20:29:23 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:29:47 -!- hilquias has joined.
20:30:26 <zzo38> The difference of TeX in different computer may be a difference of speed, a limit in the amount of RAM available, differences in DVI distance encoding, and differences in floating point; but as long as the computer has enough RAM to compile your document, none of these will affect the render, with the possible exception of slight differences of positioning of some boxes but these won't move other boxes too and make a mess
20:32:52 -!- heroux has joined.
20:33:27 -!- tromp_ has joined.
20:33:41 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
20:40:43 <zzo38> If I can put moons and equinoxes/solstices (or even to put all twelve signs) on this TeX calendar program too, then I can print calendar with moons and so on, too
20:41:12 <b_jonas> what do you mean by twelve signs? zodiac signs?
20:41:34 <zzo38> I mean the twelve astrological signs
20:41:49 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:42:42 <zzo38> And in terms of the Sun's position, because that is the one related to equinoxes/solstices.
20:42:57 <b_jonas> If I had to do that kind of calculation, I wouldn't try to implement it myself. I'd probably search for an existing good quality library with preferably a C or C++ interface.
20:43:06 <b_jonas> Or a command-line program.
20:43:17 <b_jonas> The latter might be easier.
20:43:55 <zzo38> There is; Swiss Ephemeris is a C library (licensed by GPL) which will calculate this and many other stuff.
20:44:07 <zzo38> However I wanted to calculate by TeX if possible
20:44:26 <zzo38> Unlike Swiss Ephemeris I don't need the planets though, just Sun/Moon
20:45:00 <zzo38> (I also don't need house systems, sidereal zodiacs, equatorial coordinates, and all of that other stuff)
20:49:47 -!- heroux has joined.
21:04:28 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
21:09:58 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:10:17 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:28:52 <zzo38> Do any audio formats support alpha channels, or only pictures do? Furthermore, can any audio formats support *relative* alpha channel values rather than absolute?
21:35:25 <zzo38> It would do the same thing as pictures; but for audio it might sometimes make more sense to have it relative to a specified base value rather than absolute, although not necessarily always
21:38:03 <scoofy> since there's no 'transparency' in audio, alpha channel for audio probably doesn't make much sense
21:38:28 <zzo38> Yes it would affect mix level
21:39:11 <scoofy> what use would that have
21:39:27 <scoofy> generally, all audio sources are mixed 100%, so it's like they have 100% 'transparency/alpha' always
21:40:25 <zzo38> By default of course it is
21:43:55 <scoofy> why would you need that
21:44:07 <scoofy> or what use would it have
21:52:43 -!- aretecode has joined.
21:56:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: dunno how would you record such alpha values?
22:06:41 <zzo38> You can't record them, but they could be created and used during effect processing; the final mixed result (if the output isn't itself meant to be mixed too) will not have the alpha values
22:07:34 <zzo38> And if the output is itself meant to be mixed, if it has any alpha channel at all it may use relative values if that is applicable to the use of them, such as possibly sound effects played together with background music you might want relative values
22:08:21 <b_jonas> I don't know, but I also know very little about sound formats
22:08:32 <b_jonas> I'm working with images and videos at work, not sounds
22:09:23 <b_jonas> some of those video files have a sound channel, because that's how they're recorded by the device (a microphone is cheap compared to an expensive camera so it's often included), but I just ignore that channel.
22:09:38 <b_jonas> Ignore or strip purposefully.
22:09:53 <FireFly> Hm, out of interest, what kind of stuff do you do with the video?
22:10:25 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:10:31 <zzo38> Actually what else I thought is a kind of program you can try to work with pictures, videos, and sounds, and others, by allowing any number of dimension and any number of channels, although for videos you can have a combination because it mixes animation with sound
22:11:12 <b_jonas> FireFly: image processing stuff, that is, mostly heuristics trying to recognize features or objects of the video
22:11:28 <scoofy> what can you recognize?
22:11:31 <FireFly> Reminds me that I should do my image recognition homework
22:11:31 <oerjan> int-e: i'm indeed wondering what those puppets are made of... especially as i recall some tales from the french terror...
22:12:00 <zzo38> Different operators may use different combination if input/output dimensions/channels, and may support multiple kinds (being "polymorphic"), and some may be generalizable to other number of dimensions/channels, while others may be upgraded and/or downgraded to different number of dimensions/channels.
22:12:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: video container formats certainly store all of those, and some handling programs handle videos, images, sounds, and subtitles.
22:12:42 <zzo38> You can use the same parameter for DPI and sample rate, possibly allowing it to be different per dimension, just the units are different.
22:12:50 <b_jonas> They can also store arbitrary byte streams to which you give meaning in the future.
22:13:05 <b_jonas> (In fact, videos and sounds and subtitles are stored as byte streams.)
22:13:53 <b_jonas> Also some global metadata like title, and per-stream metadata, most importantly timestamps for each frame.
22:13:53 <oerjan> actually that tale i remember may have been a sandman comic...
22:15:19 <zzo38> For example, a simple delay effect can be generalized to more than one dimension, and although it is one channel it can be "upgraded" to multiple channels. But in this case you can also just have it operate individually per dimension (and possibly also individually per channel, although per channel is more useful for audio than for pictures it might still be useful to deal with alignment for example)
22:15:58 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> hah. "raw material" (oerjan will likely pick up on this later) <-- it's hard to do when you're not here tdnh
22:16:49 <zzo38> Fourier transform are also possible in different number of dimension, so PADsynth could also be made to work multiple dimensions too, making tilable pictures and/or repeatable animations
22:16:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: Sure, shifting or slicing in the time dimension is an important enough special case that video handling programs can apply it to all streams together, mostly so that you can concatenate videos in time.
22:17:40 <zzo38> PADsynth also uses Gaussian distribution functions and those too can be made multiple dimensions
22:17:55 <f|`-`|f_> So you want to be able to run multiple feeds at the same time?
22:18:19 <FireFly> Things like smoothening filters and edge detection probably makes sense in both cases as well
22:18:59 <zzo38> The framerate will be different for the audio but you can still cause the single dimension of the audio to be programmed as corresponding with the time dimension of video
22:20:00 <oerjan> int-e: also, that doesn't much resemble real-world voltaire. is it some kind of shout-out?
22:20:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: smoothing audio and video in time with the same filter is probably a pointless idea, unless you have an ultra-high speed video capture.
22:20:50 <zzo38> b_jonas: I didn't mean smoothing them with the same filter
22:20:51 <b_jonas> ok, maybe not quite, smoothing with like 60 Hz might actually make sense for both
22:21:11 <zzo38> Although you still could do it
22:21:41 <zzo38> But what I meant is that the dimensions correspond so that they will cut/move together for example.
22:22:55 <b_jonas> yes, cutting, moving, and concatenating together is definitely done on videos
22:23:17 <b_jonas> I mean video together with any number of audio and subtitle channels
22:23:35 <zzo38> However if the audio is 44100 Hz and video is 60 Hz then it is divisible therefore you can cut/move them together in this way.
22:23:59 <zzo38> The subtitles can be as "event stream" like MIDI is
22:24:06 <int-e> oerjan: none that I'd recognize
22:26:56 <int-e> google images... is still there ... *wonders*
22:27:08 * oerjan misses google images' magnification popups
22:27:08 <zzo38> Some operators, such as brightness and contrast and gamma correction, can be zero-dimensional operators.
22:27:29 <int-e> I hate when that happens.
22:27:37 <int-e> (the '/return thing)
22:27:59 <int-e> though usually it's \/return for me
22:29:23 * oerjan realizes he can zoom with his browser instead
22:29:27 <int-e> oerjan: oh well. you were almost right. I should sleep.
22:31:15 <oerjan> image searching for "voltaire comics" didn't really help. in so many ways.
22:33:25 <int-e> yeah, why would an ...author?... go by that name...
22:33:33 <int-e> that's really inconsiderate
22:33:45 <oerjan> because it's a "cool" name.
22:34:20 <int-e> which might explain how the Folgios ended up using it
22:36:08 <int-e> Oh and I do hope Voltaire is the real thing and not a fraud like the Wizard of Oz.
22:40:05 <oerjan> int-e: well voltaire _was_ probably the smartest man in paris when he lived...
22:51:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:59:39 <zzo38> Do you know some of thing about how to play back .XM file?
23:01:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:04:47 <scoofy> what is your question about it
23:06:50 <zzo38> I want to know proper ways of how it is supposed to do
23:07:16 <zzo38> Such as exactly each command, tempo, etc
23:07:45 <zzo38> And sample playback and so on
23:19:23 -!- slacko173211 has joined.
23:20:10 <slacko173211> Unuavice per vasta uzo de komuna neŭtrala lingvo
23:20:10 <slacko173211> altevolua civilizacio diferencas de ceteraj dume
23:20:10 <slacko173211> subevoluaj, se ĝenerale ne degeneraj. <Sanĉjo>
23:23:18 <zzo38> I don't know your kind of language so well sorry
23:26:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: it's clearly Esperanto
23:26:51 <b_jonas> (or some very related language)
23:30:24 -!- slacko173211 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:36:03 <zzo38> Another use of zero-length arrays in a C code: #define interface_id(x) struct { char a[(x)&65535]; char b[(x)>>16]; } _interface[0]
23:46:05 -!- Koen_ has joined.