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00:22:16 <Lyka> So, now that Octopus's language is sufficiently complete that the device has 28K of flash used (32 max) and ~300 bytes of RAM that is not a global variable remaining...(2K max RAM)
00:22:23 <Lyka> i guess i'll have to find a way to actually load a program
00:23:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43114&oldid=43040 * Esowiki201529A * (+68) /* Capuirequiem programs Quine */ new section
00:23:25 <Lyka> or keep doing what i have been doing, reading the program directly from sd card
00:24:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43115&oldid=43114 * Esowiki201529A * (+3) /* Capuirequiem programs Quine */
00:24:39 <Lyka> but no more room for new features
00:26:41 <Lyka> Octopus is pretty much the Fourfuck interpreter for the arduino setup i have
00:32:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CLEB]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43116 * 64.180.168.27 * (+1157) A brainfuck extension, essentially.
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00:53:10 <oren> "ere the dingo men get hungry" that's a new one
01:12:53 <MDude> {} being used as a substitute for [] for no reason?
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01:34:49 <zzo38> In this Pokemon Pinball I managed to earn 6 extra balls (approximately)
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02:07:10 <oren> MDude: in what?
02:07:51 <MDude> Since [] is what's usually used for loops in brainfuck, right?
02:09:02 <oren> {} is apparently if, not while
02:12:42 <MDude> Well then I think I have the commands I need to make the specs for "Brainfuck sans Brainfuck".
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03:05:44 * Lyka works on Manta, an alternate interpreter, before preparing a document. He wants to make sure that the language is not based too much around a single implementation.
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04:20:36 <Sgeo> I miss X-Setup
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06:12:03 <Lyka> removed a bunch of redundant shortcut commands from Octopus dealing with serial communication on a device that crrently uses 5 buttons connected to a single multiplexer and a 16x2 text lcd as its primary means of user interaction
06:12:09 <Lyka> in simpler terms, i saw a bunch of lines of code and went all "WTF?!" on sight of them.
06:15:16 <Lyka> contray to the label, nasacort does *not* last 24 hours...
06:15:41 * Lyka coughs up all over the channel
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06:36:59 <Lyka> A000A100A20AA330[02<+031MSOB1P20_+00]02<
06:38:21 <Lyka> crap...multipl typos in that code
06:40:33 <Lyka> A000A100A20AA330[02<+031SOB1P20_M+00]02<
06:40:57 <Lyka> can you decode that?
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08:27:29 <mroman_> Taneb: Does C guarantee that char**argv is writeable?
08:28:16 <myname> CLEB is pretty useless
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08:35:54 <b_jonas> hehe, when people mention crazy two and three letter acronyms on irc, sometimes I get confused and have to check which channel it is to guess the meaning
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08:59:48 <mroman_> That looks like a crazy acronym of some sort.
09:08:03 <nortti> `learn IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays
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09:19:33 <mroman_> Mechanical relays hopefully
09:24:13 <mroman_> International Roulette Chat
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09:36:00 <fizzie> (Finnish has a word for the counterpart of afternoon.)
09:37:04 <b_jonas> that's called "morning" in English because they get up late
09:37:48 <b_jonas> a separate word for morning and pre-noon is needed by hard-working farmers only who get up at dawn to feed the household animals before they harvest on the Sun all day
09:38:02 <b_jonas> lazy noblemen have no need for such a word for hunting and partying
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09:51:01 <mroman_> dawn -> morning -> noon -> afternoon -> dusk -> evening -> night -> midnight
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09:52:24 <int-e> -> night -> dawn, cycle
09:52:35 <rdococ> 6am 7am 8am 9am 10am 11am 12am 1pm 2pm 3pm 4pm 5pm 6pm 7pm 8pm 9pm 10pm 11pm 12am 1am 2am 3am 4am 5am
09:53:28 <mroman_> surely one of those should've been 12pm
09:54:27 <mroman_> 12pm doesn't make sense for 12:00
09:55:09 <mroman_> it's not 12 hours past noon
09:55:55 <rdococ> this is why I prefer to format time differently.
09:56:05 <mroman_> I'm only gonna use pn and pm from now on.
09:56:27 <mroman_> Makes the most sense to me
09:56:30 <rdococ> how do you explain am then? "after midnight"?
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09:57:19 <rdococ> this is why I would prefer an epoch of 6am (or 6pm in your derps), so 0 would be dawn
09:57:19 <mroman_> only archaic rednecks still use that
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09:58:06 <rdococ> shu, metashu, 'patashu
09:58:21 <mroman_> ORDER! ORDER! Or I'll have to fine you and evacuate this channel.
09:58:41 <rdococ> this is not a courtroom and you are not a judge
09:58:53 <rdococ> and I am not a lawyer either
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10:09:37 <rdococ> was that some kind of joke I missed or is that your real nickname?
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10:20:34 <int-e> apparently nobody knows what 12am is. http://www.npl.co.uk/reference/faqs/is-midnight-12-am-or-12-pm-faq-time
10:25:09 <rdococ> It is often said that 12 a.m. Monday is midnight on Monday morning and 12 p.m. is midday.
10:25:33 <rdococ> I would prefer it if we counted hours after dawn and after dusk...
10:26:13 <rdococ> like 0s (for Sun) would be 6am, 6s midday, 0m dusk (for Moon), 6m for midnight...
10:26:33 <rdococ> Or just count hours after dawn. "It's half past 5s."
10:27:32 <rdococ> and then 12 hours later... "*Yawn* half past 17s already?! gotta go to bed..."
10:28:45 <rdococ> also a 24 hour clock, 0s would be to the right, 6s down (or up if you're in the southern hemisphere), 12s to the left, and 18s opposite 6s.
10:29:24 <int-e> why would 0s be on the right...
10:29:34 <rdococ> because sun rises in the east, duh
10:29:51 <int-e> there's no reason why east should be to the right
10:30:43 <rdococ> usually when we see an illustration of the earth, the north pole is near or at the top of the image. unless we live in a mirror, then east would be to the right.
10:31:29 <int-e> there's also no reason why a device that mimics the movement of the sun should use the ground as its reference; it makes much more sense to look at the sky
10:31:43 <int-e> (which, I believe, the Chinese actually do)
10:32:35 <rdococ> how about, instead of up representing north, have up represent up, and 6s would be where 12 is now on the clock
10:33:14 <int-e> to illustrate the first point, have a look at the map on http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7116.html
10:33:17 <rdococ> 0s to the right, 6s upwards, 12s to the left, 18s downwards
10:34:35 <rdococ> do you care to explain?
10:37:56 <rdococ> *insert intentionally objectionable statement here to stop awkward silence*
10:40:07 <int-e> http://www.metafilter.com/136772/A-cartographic-history-of-why-North-not-East-or-South-is-up ... it appears that ultimately this is Ptolemy's fault.
10:42:56 <rdococ> thanks ptolemy, thanks to you my statements are no longer objectionable
10:43:21 <int-e> Anyway, I wanted a map like this https://i.imgur.com/Cc6gxWq.jpg or this, http://www.hi-ho.ne.jp/amago/b-streams/flytying/images-fly/TenkaraMap1.gif
10:45:13 <int-e> also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-up_map_orientation
10:45:36 <int-e> but you brought this up yourself.
10:45:59 <int-e> I was really looking for an east up orientation, but that seems to be quite rare.
10:47:08 <Phantom_Hoover> the fact that most of the inhabited land is in the northern hemisphere is probably one retroactive justification for it
10:50:29 <int-e> http://www.bash.org/?311375
10:52:49 <rdococ> my points are redder... and less objectionable...
10:55:18 <int-e> no, it's a client feature. http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/filtered.png
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11:37:32 <rdococ> (... Awkward silence...)
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12:21:28 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13h 47m 17s ago: We already established Laval was there hth
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12:22:35 <boily> @tell oerjan ah! yes. well, brutal concrete architecture helps one focus on the déchéance of post-modern higher education in a context of external opulence.
12:22:40 <boily> @tell oerjan (hth)
12:41:53 <myname> i should filter colors
12:42:36 <rdococ> surely colors arent that distracting?
12:50:13 <boily> colours are good for your health.
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13:37:06 <rdococ> (uh not when used THAT much...)
13:37:54 <rdococ> (come on, boily, seriously...)
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13:39:18 <boily> sixteen seventeen eighteen nineteen twenty
13:39:30 <boily> colours only go up to 15. meh.
13:39:46 <myname> black on black are the best
13:40:24 <rdococ> spoiler alert you dun goofed
13:42:32 <rdococ> What does mapole mean?
13:43:39 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards.
13:43:51 <HackEgo> thwackamacallit? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:46:00 <boily> it's a maple pole. a mapole.
13:46:29 <int-e> it's not pineful, but painful.
13:54:23 <rdococ> sorry for the colors but its a little too fun
13:55:08 <rdococ> umm I'm going to go create a testing channel... if you want to follow me then use /whois
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14:06:52 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 44m 17s ago: ah! yes. well, brutal concrete architecture helps one focus on the déchéance of post-modern higher education in a context of external opulence.
14:07:44 <rdococ> ("Ack"?! what's that supposed to mean?!)
14:07:57 <boily> rdococ: it's not NAK hth.
14:08:43 <oerjan> rdococ: "Acknowledged", hth
14:09:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CRalphabet]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43117&oldid=39620 * 2.218.203.250 * (-10) /* Implementation */
14:09:47 <boily> int-e: have you ever fed Graham's Number into Ackermann?
14:10:08 <oerjan> `` cat /dev/null >wisdom/nak
14:11:54 <rdococ> (What on earth are they on about...?)
14:11:57 <boily> Tanelle. that would be a reverse ackermann.
14:12:18 <boily> oerjan: *sigh* how am I going to format this on in the PDF...
14:12:23 <oerjan> boily: the funny thing is that feeding Graham's number into Ackermann is _far_ less of an increase than simply incrementing the index on it.
14:12:45 <oerjan> i.e. G_65 >>> A(G_64, G_64).
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14:12:59 <oerjan> boily: i suggest not acknowledging it hth
14:13:06 <boily> rdococ: don't worry. it'll all come to you in due time. fnord.
14:13:53 <boily> oerjan: oh. holy fungot in fizzie's host. I... G_65 is >>> than A(G_64, G_64)? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
14:13:53 <fungot> boily: does it work if you used an old mac
14:13:55 <Taneb> I keep thinking I've solved P=NP just as I fall asleep
14:14:04 <boily> fungot: probably not.
14:14:04 <fungot> boily: i'm using erc version 4.0 revision: fnord with gnu emacs, though.
14:14:08 <Taneb> Is this a normal problem?
14:14:17 <boily> rdococ: seriously.
14:14:41 <rdococ> Being serious here is objectionable.
14:14:44 * boily is very tempted to make an Airplane! reference...
14:14:53 <oerjan> boily: the G method of making humongous numbers more or less starts with ackermanns as the first, tiny step.
14:15:04 <oerjan> (not _exactly_ that, but close.)
14:15:06 * rdococ wonders what an "Airplane! reference" means...
14:15:21 <oerjan> rdococ: surely you must know Airplane!
14:15:33 <Taneb> rdococ, in some countries it is called Flying High!
14:15:46 <rdococ> I know Objection! but not this "Airplane!" stuff...?
14:15:52 <rdococ> and I forgot to unbold -.-
14:15:57 <boily> rdococ: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/?ref_=nv_sr_1
14:15:57 <oerjan> i think in norway it was "Hjelp, vi flyr!"
14:16:53 <boily> anybody know how to get the translated titles of a movie on imdb?
14:16:55 <rdococ> why the exclamation mark?
14:17:55 <boily> it's part of the title.
14:19:16 <boily> ah! «Y a-t-il un pilote dans l'avion?» is the French version.
14:19:27 <boily> rdococ: see, no exclamation marks in French!
14:21:27 <rdococ> bea-cua--se????????????????????
14:21:43 <oerjan> beacuase is quebecois for because hth
14:22:12 <boily> rdococ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2Z23SAFVA
14:22:28 <rdococ> I hate the department of redundancy department.
14:22:33 <boily> oerjan: that would be «à cause» hth.
14:24:18 <rdococ> (I'd prefer Esperanto...)
14:25:57 <boily> I learned some Esperanto when I was in high school. (along with a little bit of Quenya and Sindarin. 8th and 9th grades were interesting times...)
14:26:47 <rdococ> (That's it, I'm making my own conlang...)
14:27:16 <rdococ> ...umm that S symbol didnt work did it...?
14:27:28 <MDude> Will it also be an esolang?
14:27:39 <boily> rdococ: unless I'm unicodly mistaken, it's a latin capital S, no more.
14:28:10 <rdococ> it was meant to be a greek capital letter sigma
14:28:30 <rdococ> but looks like it turned into an S somehow
14:28:54 <oerjan> älisil i ruom 1 sivoc 10 itë miascutû i
14:28:56 <rdococ> (IRC only supports ASCII and a few extensions, I guess)
14:30:01 <boily> すみませんが、ちょっと違うと思います。
14:30:46 <rdococ> (...mIRC certainly is objectionable.)
14:30:47 <MDude> Newer ones support unicode.
14:31:15 <MDude> I do not have such a client myself.
14:31:27 <rdococ> what client do you use that supports unicode?
14:32:31 <rdococ> I shall finally object to mIRC's stupidity. I cannot put up with it anymore.
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14:33:42 <MDude> Quickly, everyone else play Pheonix Wright so we can make a follow-up joke when he gets back.
14:34:26 <oerjan> sorry, i can pretend to know Airplane! but not that.
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14:40:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wait: not found
14:40:51 <oerjan> `learn IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays.
14:40:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'irc': IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays.
14:48:16 <oerjan> <rdococ> this is why I would prefer an epoch of 6am (or 6pm in your derps), so 0 would be dawn <-- the time of dawn depends on season hth. in some parts of norway the sun doesn't always rise at all.
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14:50:40 <rdococ> I ended up downloading pidgin.
14:50:53 <oerjan> <rdococ> this is why I would prefer an epoch of 6am (or 6pm in your derps), so 0 would be dawn <-- the time of dawn depends on season hth. in some parts of norway the sun doesn't always rise at all.
14:51:18 <rdococ> but as an approximation...
14:51:49 <rdococ> so where were we... aha
14:51:59 <oerjan> #esoteric irc channel hth
14:52:01 <rdococ> does the Σ symbol work...?
14:52:31 <oerjan> wait, should there be an i in that
14:52:48 <boily> merveilleuse. with an e, and an i.
14:53:05 <boily> rdococ: non. c'est bin plus mieux en français, tsé :D
14:53:11 <oerjan> rdococ: ka så e gøye me de?
14:53:12 <rdococ> department of redundancy department
14:53:39 <rdococ> that doesn't display properly, except for the two sigmas at the end
14:54:12 <HackEgo> [U+1D72E MATHEMATICAL BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL SIGMA]
14:54:18 <int-e> the last one was a sum symbol; all the others were actually capital sigmas.
14:54:57 <int-e> (it doesn't work in my terminal, but my browser can handle them in http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2015-05-31 )
14:56:29 <rdococ> and how do the same character 6 times have different appearances?! Δ!!!
14:56:45 <rdococ> wait... theyre different...
14:57:04 <boily> rdococ: the wonders of Unicode, where everything is a codepoint an z-variants don't matter.
14:57:07 <oerjan> boily: nynorsk / southern dialect for "fun" hth
15:00:56 <int-e> rdococ: it's one of the greater silly features of Unicode, where the powers that be decided to encode into codepoints a particular choice of fonts in a typeface...
15:01:10 <int-e> ...but only for letters used as mathematical symbols.
15:03:21 <b_jonas> not among the more silly ideas of unicode
15:04:04 <boily> oerjan: Han Unification and all that kerfuffle.
15:04:07 <tswett> Well, mathematical writing is one of the few places where changing typographical details actually results in a change of meaning.
15:04:12 <int-e> they included a full set of (standard) chess pieces, but only ☖☗ for Shogi.
15:04:52 <int-e> that seems a bit biased.
15:05:04 <tswett> Not all of the Shogi symbols are recognizable Han characters, right?
15:05:50 <rdococ> is that there should be a new system
15:06:08 <boily> tswett: they have standard kanji representation. used in newspaper problems and records.
15:06:12 <int-e> rdococ: not really
15:06:40 <rdococ> a character's id would be 8x8 black-and-white image (64 bits) and would contain every character ever
15:06:51 <int-e> rdococ: as awful as Unicode is, at least it's a single standard that is being more or less universally adopted.
15:07:06 <tswett> But the kanji representation isn't necessarily the same as what actually appears on the piece.
15:08:05 <tswett> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shogi_narikyo.png doesn't look like "成香" to me. Or maybe 成香 isn't the same as the standard representation.
15:08:39 <rdococ> and scaling it up would use some kind of super scaling method that doesnt show the jagged shape
15:08:59 <int-e> tswett: I feel that there should be symbols having the proper Kanji inside the Shogi piece outline.
15:09:02 <rdococ> or my idea which was a combination of bicubic interpolation and nearest neighbour
15:09:23 <tswett> int-e: yeah, there probably should.
15:09:49 <rdococ> basically: bicubic interpolation average weight values, the color with the higher value would fill that pixel
15:10:17 <rdococ> sort of like if you drew a black line on white image, scaled it up with bicubic then saved it as 1-bit image
15:10:50 <boily> rdococ: have you seen https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x ? it's all the rage lately.
15:11:17 <boily> tswett: holy calligraphy batman! that indeed doesn't look like 成香 at all...
15:11:59 <tswett> It does look a fair bit like 仝.
15:12:09 <HackEgo> [U+4EDD CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4EDD]
15:13:16 <boily> tswett: right. stuff promoted to golds are variations on 全.
15:15:36 <oerjan> * int-e filters colors. <-- reading the color codes in the logs is just _so_ nice.
15:15:56 <tswett> I bet 全, 今, 仝, and 个 are the standard print representations of those pieces, and they're not actually the same characters that are on the pieces, but rather other characters chosen for their resemblance to them.
15:19:36 <oerjan> i was going to paste, except the control characters are actually _there_ and so copy fine, just not shown by the browser.
15:23:04 <oerjan> `learn A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole.
15:23:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'thwackamacallit': A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole.
15:31:37 <int-e> `? whatchamacallit
15:31:38 <HackEgo> whatchamacallit? ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:34:40 <tswett> Hey everyone! Remember that neural net?
15:34:41 <int-e> It's the dilemma of infinite /wisdom.
15:35:16 <tswett> I'm gonna do the same thing again, but with a stupidly huge net size. I'm thinking 1400.
15:35:46 <tswett> (Fifty years from now, 1400 will undoubtedly be considered tiny.)
15:36:38 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure by now the neural net must have taken over tswett's account. don't trust it!
15:37:08 <int-e> (I had the right association, but nevertheless, I don't remember that term... sigh.)
15:37:10 <tswett> I'm not sure that this virtual machine actually has enough virtual hard drive space. Lemme check on that.
15:37:58 <tswett> more (power I must) acquire, more Power,
15:38:49 <tswett> A hundred googlebugs. That's probably enough space.
15:39:09 <boily> oerjan: do you think tswett has become the next fungot generation?
15:39:10 <fungot> boily: there we go! go! gone! let's prepare our defenses!
15:39:49 <oerjan> boily: well with fungot clearly confirming it...
15:39:49 <fungot> oerjan: the f is different from mzlib's local. the short-hand is called a " retarded noob". which is to say you were
15:39:53 <tswett> Hey, where did all my hard drive space go?
15:39:57 <tswett> 300 GB are just missing.
15:40:39 <oerjan> fungot: so you're saying it's not smart enough to be a threat, yet?
15:40:39 <fungot> oerjan: if you don't have to have a new garbage collector to show him that cl isn't the only language with unused prefixes left right now. but i want to
15:41:27 <int-e> fungot: Please stop making sense.
15:41:32 <tswett> Huh, what's on this unmounted partition?
15:45:41 <tswett> It doesn't seem to contain anything important. I mean, it contains lots of stuff with the word "boot" in it. But there's probably only, like, a 20% chance that those are necessary for me to boot my computer.
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15:46:23 <boily> tswett: nuke the partition, and reboot! FOR SCIENCE!
15:46:28 <tswett> Ah, it's "the active system partition".
15:46:32 <Deewiant> If there's 300 GB of it there's a 100% chance that some of it is unnecessary
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15:48:33 <tswett> Then there's 97 GB of unallocated space.
15:49:45 <Deewiant> There's a 100% chance that your computer isn't reading 146 GB of data on boot
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15:57:04 <tswett> Man, in a few moments, I'm going to have a pretty weird hard drive setup.
15:58:22 <tswett> I now have: the backup partition (341 GB), unallocated space (97 GB), the system partition (9 GB), unallocated space (136 GB), the C: partition (345 GB).
15:58:45 <tswett> I cannot extend the C: partition backwards.
16:05:25 <tswett> Blink blink. diskpart just created a non-continuous partition spanning both chunks of unallocated space.
16:05:35 <tswett> I didn't expect it to do that, but that happens to be exactly what I wanted.
16:16:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: metar: not found
16:16:25 <Taneb> Aaah which bot was it
16:18:42 <boily> it was ~. it shall be ~. but for now it's @.
16:20:00 -!- password2 has joined.
16:20:03 <Taneb> Anyway, that is Area 51
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16:35:36 <tswett> So the logs contain every byte except for two.
16:37:49 <tswett> I'm guessing null and carriage return.
16:38:53 <tswett> It occurs to me that training this net may take a really, really, really long time.
16:39:52 -!- variable has changed nick to constant.
16:42:26 <boily> tswett: do you have any snazzy graphical progress indicator? blinkenlights or whirling mechanical parts?
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16:46:02 <tswett> But it's graphically rendered text.
16:48:10 * tswett yanks some sticks out of the VM.
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16:59:10 <tswett> Ooh, look at that swap... and that free space?
16:59:30 <tswett> It's using swap *and* there's completely unused memory?
16:59:37 <tswett> All right, whatever floats its boat.
17:04:49 -!- Welo has joined.
17:06:16 <int-e> tswett: that's normal, Linux tends to think it's worthwhile to swap out data to make room for the file system cache.
17:08:53 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swappiness
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17:33:10 <ais523> I was a little surprised that you did
17:33:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Maxsteele2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43118&oldid=23379 * 37.248.255.236 * (+131) Added a reply to subsection "Hey..."
17:34:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43119&oldid=35252 * Rdebath * (+140) Checking the interpreter.
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17:39:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43120&oldid=43119 * Rdebath * (-29) Is not Trivially Turing Complete as the looping construct cannot emulate a while-switch
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17:44:55 <oren> Prolog has the porperty that facts about a program's state can be reported in prolog
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17:45:54 <oren> Which other porgraming languages have that porperty?
17:47:07 <ais523> oren: in Underlambda, you can capture the program's entire state in Underlambda (by design)
17:47:19 <ais523> i.e. specify what the stack and remaining program are in Underlambda syntax
17:47:26 <ais523> you can do that in Underload too, by implication
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17:56:43 <tswett> int-e: in "top", under "Mem free", doesn't that number exclude disk cache?
17:57:57 <tswett> Whelp, so far, the net has successfully performed 0 training rounds.
17:58:08 <tswett> In about, like... an hour?
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18:00:11 <oren> the neural nyetworking task
18:00:12 -!- monotone has joined.
18:00:53 <quintopia> oren: thats more of a metatask for the researcher
18:02:37 <oren> i think it's training on the IRC logs for this channel
18:03:40 <tswett> To create random logs that look like them.
18:04:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:CLEB]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43121 * Rdebath * (+389) Huh? What's wrong with comment loops?
18:04:01 <tswett> The number of parameters is apparently 30,353,054.
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18:07:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43122&oldid=43120 * Rdebath * (+60) Grr wrong wiki.
18:08:00 <oren> (from scrollback) There are IRC clients that don't support unicode?
18:08:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:09:54 <oren> I mean, I thought irssi on terminal was about the most primitive irc client still used
18:10:18 <zzo38> My own IRC client cannot send non-ASCII characters, alhough any non-ASCII characters it receives are simply sent to the terminal emulator as is, so any encoding can be used and is not limited to UTF-8.
18:12:00 <zzo38> (Implementing it like this is necessary in order to do line-wrapping properly when other messages are received while you have an unfinished message being typed too.)
18:12:17 <tswett> 1200 is too big, let's try 1000.
18:12:45 * boily tries to resist his mattress' siren song, but fails his fortitude check.
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18:13:56 <tswett> That sounds like a Will save to resist the urge to go climb into your mattress, or a Fortitude save to avoid just passing out.
18:16:18 <oren> そうですか？ だって、日本語で長い長いメセージを書いて、正しにラッピングするか？
18:17:20 <ais523> tswett: I'd expect it to be a straight Con check
18:17:28 <ais523> assuming we're talking D&D third edition
18:17:33 <int-e> tswett: yes it does
18:17:42 <ais523> basically because you don't want high-level characters to be able to stay awake indefinitely
18:17:59 <ais523> (apart from arguably the neversleeping paladin trick, but there's some debate about whether that actually works)
18:20:19 <zzo38> I have play Dungeons&Dragons game 3.5 edition. You may be correct but even then only the kind of creatures that cannot sleep, are allowed to stay awake indefinitely, would be how I would do anyways
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18:20:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jabutosama * New user account
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18:23:23 <oren> あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてとなにぬねのまみむめもやゆよらりるれろわをん一二三四五六七八九十百千万億月火水木金土日朝晩夜春夏秋冬晴雲雨雪雷
18:23:43 <oren> did that wrap correctly on everyone's screens?
18:24:17 <zzo38> I think so, although the terminal font can't display these characters
18:24:19 <ais523> it fits on one line to me, not sure if that counts as wrapping correctly
18:24:31 <zzo38> I have to copy/paste to something else to display the text properly.
18:25:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Jabutosama]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43123 * Jabutosama * (+449) made.
18:25:20 <ais523> !bfjoust growth2 nethack4.org/pastebin/growth2.bfjoust
18:25:27 <ais523> we do have a BF Joust bot in here, right?
18:25:43 <oren> Apparently some kind of tree in hebrew?
18:25:52 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_growth: 0.0
18:25:52 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_growth2: 6.2
18:25:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Jabutosama]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43124 * Jabutosama * (+87) Created page with "Tell here your message to me (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ ✧ﾟ･: *ヽ(◕ヮ◕ヽ)"
18:26:21 <ais523> or, hmm, the scoring's on a different scale from what I'm used to
18:26:47 <ais523> !bfjoust growth2 nethack4.org/pastebin/growth2.bfjoust
18:26:49 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_growth2: 6.1
18:27:40 <ais523> hmm, growth2 does much better than that local, I have a feeling that EgoBot is failing to parse it correctly
18:28:59 <ais523> oh, I bet it's running the URL as a program
18:29:02 <ais523> rather than the file at that URL
18:29:06 <ais523> !bfjoust growth2 http://nethack4.org/pastebin/growth2.bfjoust
18:29:11 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_growth2: 54.7
18:29:30 <ais523> yay, now I get to describe it
18:30:13 <ais523> I wasn't expecting it to win, but I was testing against the zemhill hill; some of its worst matchups aren't on the egojoust hill
18:30:47 <oren> Anyway, it is supposed to show as a list of every hiragana, followed by numbers 123456789,10,100,1000,10000, followed by the abbrevation s of the days of the week, folled by morning evening and night, followed by the seasons, followed by some words for weather
18:31:50 <oren> oh and after 10000 is the word for 100000000 forgot that one
18:32:10 <ais523> it only marginally beats simple
18:32:23 <ais523> which is unsurprising, simple does quite well against modern "advanced" programs because it doesn't do things that get exploited
18:32:39 <ais523> in particular, growth2 is confused by old-fashioned forwards decoy setups
18:42:29 <fizzie> ais523: it's !zjoust for zemhill now.
18:42:42 <fizzie> ais523: Although I'm not entirely sure how well it's functioning.
18:42:46 <ais523> !zjoust growth2 http://nethack4.org/pastebin/growth2.bfjoust
18:43:11 <ais523> EgoBot was pretty slow
18:43:17 <fizzie> The console says "done" already.
18:43:30 <fizzie> I'll have to look into it, but I'm a bit busy now.
18:43:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graph]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43125&oldid=35499 * Zzo38 * (+985) Defined: "directed graph", "multigraph", "RDF graph"
18:46:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graph]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43126&oldid=43125 * Zzo38 * (+98) Define "planar graph"
18:53:58 <tswett> Aw, the neural net got OOM'd.
18:55:59 <tswett> Is there a Linux command which outputs the current kernel time (the same number that the kernel puts before timestamps in messages printed to the console)?
18:57:24 <ais523> tswett: I'd guess it'd be the same value on one of the POSIX timers
18:57:33 <ais523> and I think there's a command to print those but I can't remember what it is
18:57:43 <tswett> Wonder if I can find something in /proc or /sys.
18:59:24 <b_jonas> tswett: I'm not sure what that number is, but try perl -we 'use Time::HiRes; print Time::HiRes::clock_gettime(Time::HiRes::CLOCK_MONOTONIC()), $/;'
18:59:51 <b_jonas> that will print in seconds though
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19:00:44 <tswett> Looks like that did it. Thanks.
19:01:05 <tswett> Ooh, but I think also this:
19:01:27 <tswett> I'm not sure that that's the same number as the kernel message timestamps, but it seems close.
19:03:31 <ais523> actually, the amazing thing about growth2 is
19:03:41 <ais523> playing it against simple on tape length 25 (the default) actually gives a really clear view of how it works
19:03:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF Joust strategies]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43127&oldid=40554 * Ais523 * (+3004) /* 2015 */ because we couldn't go a year without a new hill-topper
19:04:10 <ais523> I've been working on other strategies too but I haven't managed to make them work as well
19:05:11 <myname> "2016 will be the year without a new bf joust hill-topper. also linux desktop"
19:05:41 <ais523> myname: seriously, I was looking at BF Joust on esolang
19:05:45 <ais523> saw the 2015 section wasn't there
19:05:59 <ais523> thought "wow, I must go win the hill before the year's out so that we don't have an empty section"
19:06:16 <ais523> then looked through my "good but not hill-topping yet" programs to see which I could try to improve into a hill-topper
19:06:47 <ais523> the other nice thing about growth is that it doesn't have a single special case aimed at a specific program rather than a general strategy (although it has lots of cases for handling the various possible strategies)
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19:23:39 <int-e> tswett: that seems to be a tricky question. For me, dmesg -T shows timestamps in the future...
19:24:58 <fizzie> Double quotes for emphasis: impossible to take seriously.
19:25:00 <int-e> tswett: I have a 'date' output in my prompt, that's what I was comparing to.
19:25:03 <fizzie> [[ A "decent starting place to furnish your home", this long-standing, "contemporary" housewares company offers "designer furniture at modest prices", plus "top-of-the-range" products from kitchenware to bedding; the "extremely busy" staff are generally "attentive", and fans report the "clean lines" of its goods "stand the test of time". ]]
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19:33:27 <ais523> btw, one fun "innovation" in growth/growth2: not using an offset on its clear (after the first 99 cycles)
19:33:51 <ais523> decoys and offsets have both got so big that just going back to 0 is now arguably the best strategy
19:33:57 <ais523> (actually I think that's how monolith ended up topping the hill too)
19:53:03 <tswett> Hmmmm. I want to come up with a language for creating BF Joust programs.
19:54:07 <tswett> fizzie: it's easier to take seriously if you suppose that the things in quotation marks are actual quotes.
19:55:32 <tswett> I think I'll write a Haskell EDSL for it.
19:55:46 <tswett> Back when I knew less, I'd have thought, "I should use a monad!"
19:56:26 <tswett> And maybe I should use a monad, but I should decide what the monad represents before I try to use a monad.
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20:15:11 <b_jonas> tswett: I think the uptime and the monotonous time differs if the computer was suspended/hybernated
20:15:28 <b_jonas> in any case, some two numbers differ when that happens, because one of them doesn't count the time while suspended
20:15:53 <b_jonas> tswett: also, there are multiple timers that are basically the time since boot, but can slowly drift apart
20:15:59 <b_jonas> so it's hard to tell if you're really using the right timer
20:16:12 <b_jonas> uptime and the monotonous clock and the raw clock are all such timers
20:16:27 <b_jonas> the raw clock isn't corrected for time drift to be steady
20:16:36 <b_jonas> but is still monotonous of course
20:16:46 <b_jonas> I don't remember how the suspend stuff works
20:23:04 <int-e> tswett: https://github.com/int-e/cpu-clocks
20:23:22 <int-e> (for fun, there must be a better way for doing this)
20:25:02 <int-e> in use: http://sprunge.us/hbXQ
20:25:37 <tswett> So that's what a kernel module looks like.
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20:29:01 <int-e> a trivial one at least; it's mostly pasted from tutorials :)
20:31:23 <Taneb> tswett, a kernel module is the elements in a module that map to 0 under a given module homomorphism
20:31:52 <int-e> wouldn't that be a module kernel...
20:34:09 <Taneb> Although I believe it is a module in its own right!
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20:45:13 <oren> b_jonas: I think you mean monotonic. monotonous means boring
20:46:22 <ais523> repetitive, really, more than boring
20:46:25 <ais523> although repetitive is often boring too
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21:37:48 -!- oren has changed nick to O}\3|\|.
21:38:27 <O}\3|\|> Apparently I can't start a nick with a number
21:39:17 -!- O}\3|\| has changed nick to []}\E|\|.
21:39:32 -!- []}\E|\| has changed nick to []}\3|\|.
21:40:36 -!- []}\3|\| has changed nick to oren.
21:44:49 <GeekDude> }\ is not a particularly good r
21:45:08 <GeekDude> thoug I don't have anything better, so good job!
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21:56:50 <int-e> tromp_: http://sprunge.us/PVLe ... it's too late for me to write a coherent email.
22:08:10 <oerjan> * tswett yanks some sticks out of the VM. <-- oh no, a critical VM
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22:38:21 <ais523> hmm, how do I find a bunch of people to get interested in BF Joust?
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22:48:35 <ais523> I found another way to beat death_to_defence with a defence program, which I'm happy about
22:48:42 <ais523> but it doesn't even get 50% against the field yet
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23:16:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Developers]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43128&oldid=29376 * 24.150.81.84 * (+68) /* External resources */
23:34:35 <oerjan> ^ul ((Developers! )S:^):^
23:34:35 <fungot> Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! ...too much output!
23:37:10 <ais523> best error message placement ever :-)
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