00:00:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43172 * Imaginer1 * (+126) Created page with "This page hasn't been categorized yet and supposedly moderators are supposed to be the ones in charge of this. Any help, guys?"
00:00:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43173&oldid=43172 * Imaginer1 * (+25)
00:00:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43174&oldid=43173 * Imaginer1 * (+11)
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00:01:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43175&oldid=43174 * Imaginer1 * (+0)
00:04:06 <boily> why are you codigesting so?
00:04:55 <oerjan> well what do you expect when you don't cook your food properly duh
00:05:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43176&oldid=43169 * Imaginer1 * (+0) Made a minor correction
00:05:29 <Lyka> i only eat veggie sushi
00:05:47 * oerjan afahk has never had proper sushi.
00:06:03 <zzo38> I prefer the sushi without the stuff inside, so, it is empty sushi
00:06:09 <Lyka> i mean, when i eat sushi, it is only veggie
00:06:29 <Lyka> sweet potato roll is my fave
00:06:44 * oerjan leaves this discussion to shachaf
00:06:58 <Nihilumbra> Oh lyka what was that octopus thing you were going to show
00:07:35 <boily> I like sashimi. surf clam and oil fish are some readily available favourites.
00:08:34 <Lyka> oh, i gave a certain arduino the name "octopus" when i had 8 wwires sticking out
00:09:23 <Lyka> 4FK Octopus referres to it running on that device
00:10:31 <boily> fried tempura? as in, you take some tempura, cover it in tempura batter, and fry it?
00:10:47 <Nihilumbra> Macho man randy savage killed Jesus and stopped the rapture
00:10:54 <boily> oerjan: do you remember how to type in a → in LaTeX?
00:11:31 <Lyka> the reference for 4FK-CORE is an arduino leonardo + an ethernet/sd shield (ethernet support isn't part of core)
00:12:01 <Lyka> Called that calamari cause i caled the other one octopus
00:12:07 <boily> Nihilumbra: no, it's typesetting software. some people here like to give me a headache with it.
00:12:35 <boily> . o O ( oh yeah baby, align that float... such a fine \caption you have there... )
00:12:38 <zzo38> Plain TeX is a better typesetting software
00:12:49 <ais523> I used that one a lot in my thesis
00:13:02 <ais523> (not sure if there's a textmode version but mathmode is what I needed anyway, and it's not like it's hard to toggle)
00:13:39 <boily> ais523: meanwhile, I just discovered the sudden benefits of YCM in vim.
00:13:53 <boily> holy glorious mother of fungot. it autocompletes everything.
00:13:53 <fungot> boily: i also believe that it leads to nothing but mistakes are only costly with the emacs equivalent of word macros. awk scripts are becoming gawk scripts. etc etc etc
00:14:16 <Nihilumbra> something that auto completes?? everything???
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00:15:11 <boily> Nihilumbra: it aucocompletes. smartly. and not only prefixes; as long as the substring exists, it autocompletes.
00:15:24 <Lyka> Cuddlefish is the arduino mega + tft touch lcd
00:17:49 <boily> mroman_: are you the one who added that chuchichäschtli, or was it int-e?
00:19:37 <oerjan> so mroman_ is the obvious suspect
00:19:46 <HackEgo> chuchichäschtli is spoken as ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli
00:21:32 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/as \(.*\)/as [\1]/' wisdom/chuchichäschtli
00:21:39 <HackEgo> chuchichäschtli is spoken as [ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli]
00:27:04 <boily> oerjan: imported TIPA, read the docs, it worked. on to the next missing entry!
00:32:33 <oerjan> <Taneb> I think I can make poutine in York relatively easily <-- isn't that cheese stuff sort of rare outside canada, or something?
00:32:56 <nys> cheese curds?
00:34:18 <oerjan> "Cheese curds in cuisine, or cooking, are the solid parts of soured milk either eaten alone or used in various regional dishes, mostly in eastern Canada and the northeastern and midwestern United States."
00:34:46 <boily> http://www.fromagesbergeron.com/fromages/7/brins-de-gouda/ ← best curds out there hth
00:39:28 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, he's in england, i'm sure you can buy any dairy product known to man with a moderate amount of effort
00:40:31 <oerjan> hm when you put it like that...
00:41:31 <boily> strange. I expected something about zzo38 in the gopher entry...
00:41:42 <zzo38> Then add another sentence if you want to
00:41:47 <HackEgo> Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2.
00:41:58 <zzo38> There look like only one sentence currently
00:43:36 <boily> now, who is the [explétif] that added haiku.
00:43:45 <boily> (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH)
00:43:47 <ais523> boily: when you censor yourself, you do so in French?
00:44:03 <boily> ais523: it flows more naturally hth
00:44:17 <HackEgo> [U+1F028 MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN] [U+3084 HIRAGANA LETTER YA] [U+26C4 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW]
00:44:50 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: it's a haiku made out of unicode character names
00:44:57 <ais523> huh, that's the first astral planes character that I've seen render correctly in this client
00:45:10 <boily> I only see the first two in this one client here.
00:45:27 <ais523> what's the significance of the hiragana letter ya?
00:45:49 <oerjan> ais523: it has 7 syllables hth
00:45:50 <ais523> I can see trying to make a snowman during autumn, but having to substitute something else for the snow because there isn't any snow
00:45:54 <ais523> something quite profound there
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00:46:05 <ais523> whereas, the hiragana letter seems to have been thrown in just for syllable count
00:46:13 <boily> it's a ya. やとヤと色々の文字がある。
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00:47:07 <oerjan> "There is a variety of characters and Yatoya."
00:47:15 <ais523> boily: I'm going to assume that the Japanese text there is Japanese for "hth"
00:47:55 <boily> oerjan: I should've quoted the ya and the other ya hth
00:48:39 * oerjan keeps being slightly annoyed that google's front page app menu pushes g. translate just off the first page so you have to click an extra time to get to it
00:49:23 <oerjan> boily: that does not help me translate it
00:50:04 <HackEgo> [U+3084 HIRAGANA LETTER YA] [U+3068 HIRAGANA LETTER TO] [U+30E4 KATAKANA LETTER YA]
00:51:11 <ais523> oerjan: wait, people use Google Translate without typing in the URL directly (or using a browser/feature extension)?
00:51:42 <ais523> also, you can probably get to Google Translate from the front page of Google the same way you can get anywhere else from the front page of Google
00:52:02 <oren> I usually use wiktionary
00:52:26 <oerjan> ais523: hm when you put it like that typing the url and autocompleting might be faster
00:52:37 <oerjan> oren: wiktionary for whole sentences?
00:52:46 <oren> r my actual paper dictionary (because it has radical-stroke lookup which wiktionary hasn't)
00:52:58 <ais523> does the "I'm feeling lucky" button still exist?
00:53:22 <boily> there. I contourné the problem by composing a haiku.
00:53:22 <oren> oerjan: I know japanese grammar, but often I don't know words hh
00:53:26 <oerjan> oren: wiktionary sort of requires you to have an idea of how the rest of the language works tdnh
00:53:39 <boily> (btw, what's "contourner" in English? I'm drawing a blank here.)
00:54:29 * oerjan remembered he had gt open
00:54:48 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away.
00:55:08 <zzo38> "Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. And also zzo38." Is that a better way? Probably not, the second sentence isn't very good.
00:55:26 <oren> 秋や雪だるま autumn and snowman, and possibly something else.
00:55:32 <oerjan> ais523: back when the GT link actually showed up directly on the google frontpage, that was clearly the easiest way (since i always have the frontpage open)
00:55:34 <ais523> that sentence got me trying to imagine what the successor of zzo38 would be like
00:55:52 <ais523> presumably that's not the way it was meant to be parsed
00:56:11 <oerjan> ais523: but you have to admit it's very zzo38
00:56:28 <zzo38> ais523: I know it isn't how it meant to be parsed that's why I said it isn't very good
00:56:54 <ais523> "Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first."
00:56:59 <oren> And also zzo38's?
00:57:19 <shachaf> oerjan: i've heard that norwegian sushi is among the best hth
00:57:40 <ais523> oren: that would disambiguate, yes
00:58:12 <oerjan> <ais523> does the "I'm feeling lucky" button still exist? <-- yes
01:01:04 <oerjan> shachaf: i wouldn't know hth
01:01:13 <oerjan> (although we have all that salmon)
01:01:27 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: what's with the norwegian
01:02:13 <boily> what's a tvilling?
01:02:32 <zzo38> `learn Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first.
01:02:33 <oren> is it a norwegian gerund?
01:02:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'gopher': Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first.
01:03:02 <zzo38> At least this is better than how it was before. (Whether or not it is even more better than that, I don't know.)
01:03:31 <HackEgo> A card game where you win if you collect *all* of the tropes.
01:05:40 <oerjan> boily: it's a twin hth
01:06:08 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: also gemini is tvillingene if you mean the astrological sign
01:06:15 <oerjan> (it's plural definite)
01:06:42 * boily disambiguately mapoles oren
01:06:56 <oren> trying out a font
01:07:45 <oren> Nanum Gothic Coding is a good font
01:07:49 <zzo38> Do you think either one must be silenced?
01:08:01 <zzo38> It doesn't look to me?
01:08:04 <oerjan> <oren> is it a norwegian gerund? <-- i'm not sure norwegian has gerunds, really, we tend to use the infinitive where english uses it. although we do have a cognate verbal noun used for word building, like in german.
01:08:35 <zzo38> `? how to stand on the ceiling
01:08:36 <HackEgo> how to stand on the ceiling? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:09:15 <ais523> `? isn't really a general question-answering tool
01:09:16 <HackEgo> isn't really a general question-answering tool? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:09:20 <oren> use suction cups on your feet
01:09:33 <ais523> nah, the trick is to be on top of the ceiling
01:09:37 <ais523> so you can stand on it the normal way
01:09:58 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: neither the t nor the v is silent
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01:10:37 <oerjan> in fact tvillingene doesn't really have any silent letters, although ll is a single lengthened sound and ng is a single velar nasal
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01:11:08 <oerjan> (basically the same sounds as usually in english)
01:11:30 <oerjan> s/basically/more or less/
01:11:41 <oerjan> i'm sure the ll is not entirely identical
01:11:51 <oren> interesting... I don't actually find i hard to pronounce a v after a t
01:13:21 <Nihilumbra> and im starting to think I have atrophy in my hands
01:13:24 <boily> Nihilumbra: beware. you're treading on dangerous paths here. next thing you know, you'll be eating lutefisk.
01:13:58 <oren> Eh, it's not hard at all. try with potato chips first
01:14:08 <boily> are you using three or four fingers?
01:14:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43177&oldid=43175 * Ais523 * (+580) explain the categories rule
01:14:48 <zzo38> But using your feet would be cheating.
01:15:23 <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLMZF8Ufhg
01:16:31 <ais523> oerjan: are you talking about the english ll or the welsh ll? they're entirely different sounds
01:16:41 <ais523> the welsh one can be sort-of approximated as "chl" but not really
01:16:48 <Nihilumbra> my grandfather is Japanese and he's coming over with his family because my sister is having a wedding so i don't want to look dumb
01:16:54 <zzo38> I don't know very good Welsh speaking
01:18:58 <boily> my grip looks more like http://www.tastyislandhawaii.com/images/chopsticks_hold_ind5.jpg
01:19:07 <boily> (left handed and all.)
01:20:43 <oren> hold on I'll take a picture
01:21:23 <FireFly> ais523: the norwegian ll would be the same as the english ll as far as I know
01:21:45 <ais523> so basically just an "l" that removes the remote control ability of vowels
01:21:46 <FireFly> i.e. just a lengthened l sound
01:22:51 <FireFly> I didn't realise until now, reading the scrollback, that "tv" could be uncommon/unusual
01:23:07 <oerjan> ais523: i am certainly not talking about actual welsh celtic language. however there _is_ a difference, but english varies a lot in this.
01:23:29 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ ｗｉｌｌ ｃａｕｓｅ ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ ｂｙ
01:23:33 <ais523> "tv" is fine in English if they're in two separate sulllables :P
01:23:38 <boily> oh fungot. there are quotes.
01:23:42 <ais523> both in the same syllable is very unusual
01:23:56 <ais523> fungot's not babbling? or has boily hit the babble limit?
01:24:11 <boily> oren: you'll be in the PDF soon! hurrah! hurray!
01:24:18 <oerjan> basically, the ll in tvillingene is not velarized (i was going to say norwegian l never is, but i'm not sure after back vowels)
01:24:51 <oerjan> while l tends to be velarized in american english, and _sometimes_ in RP, and otherwise varies all over the place.
01:25:30 <oerjan> if you're from wales, your _english_ ll might very well be close to the norwegian one.
01:25:46 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology#Sonorants
01:26:20 <fungot> ais523: does ror use some kind of supercoder
01:26:20 <fungot> FireFly: but the people who get annoyed) l) is different from what i've seen in my 30 years on it
01:26:20 <fungot> Nihilumbra: like in a play... hmm... fnord looks neato. what else is an awesome idea.
01:26:20 <fungot> boily: _i_ am not complaining) ' concurrency.'
01:26:30 <oerjan> if i'm reading the RP entry correctly, it would also be velarized in -illi-
01:26:31 <ais523> oh, it's just beings low
01:26:47 <ais523> what does "velarized" mean?
01:27:07 <oren> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxcXE11iO1QiT2xURDVxSjNIeGtDYlZLNzFYYVBoVEowTThN/view?usp=sharing
01:27:26 <oren> That is me holding an sd card up using two pencils
01:28:45 <oerjan> `learn Amiga is spanish for a female friend.
01:28:48 <HackEgo> Learned 'amiga': Amiga is spanish for a female friend.
01:28:56 <oerjan> `learn Amiga is Spanish for a female friend.
01:28:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'amiga': Amiga is Spanish for a female friend.
01:29:41 <FireFly> I couldn't find an example of no:tvillingene, but here's sv:tvillingarna: http://www.forvo.com/word/tvillingarna/#sv (apparently by a swiss person, but it sounds correct to me)
01:30:42 <boily> Nihilumbra: there are only two orens. oren and orin. hth.
01:31:06 <oren> er, no, 22 now
01:31:18 <oerjan> <FireFly> ais523: the norwegian ll would be the same as the english ll as far as I know <-- i can _clearly_ hear the difference between the ll in no:tvilling and the ll in en:sillier the way i pronounce them, of course i'm not an authority on the latter.
01:31:35 <Nihilumbra> I can tell from muscle structure most of the time but there was a lot of light
01:31:42 <ais523> huh, my brain's parser is a little broken
01:31:48 <ais523> I see a line that pings me and has a ← in
01:31:51 <ais523> and assume I'm being quoted
01:32:43 <boily> ↑ you are ais523. htp.
01:32:53 <HackEgo> \ Piet is a really colorful programming language.
01:33:21 <HackEgo> INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market.
01:34:37 <FireFly> oerjan: what about en:full?
01:35:52 <Nihilumbra> I'm just accidentally spinning food around with these sticks
01:36:08 <FireFly> The ll in en:full sounds similar to the one in sv:tvillingarna when I pronounce them, but I certainly don't trust my english pronounciation to follow either RP or US pronounciation
01:36:16 <oerjan> <Nihilumbra> how do you pronounce Ingene though <-- [iŋenə] i think
01:36:26 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable.
01:37:18 <Nihilumbra> Also that n doesn't exist in Irish linguistics so idk what you are trying for
01:38:15 <oerjan> <ais523> what does "velarized" mean? <-- it's somewhat mysterious to me too, apparently there's some lifting of the back of the tongue added to some consonants. but "l" is the only one i can distinguish sort of reliably.
01:38:40 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velarization
01:38:51 <ais523> oerjan: hmm, I can pronounce two different audibly consonants by moving my tongue like that, but one of them isn't really an l
01:40:47 <FireFly> Nihilumbra: do you mean ŋ? that's the "ng" in e.g. "thing"
01:41:31 <Nihilumbra> I was confused as to what oerjan was saying
01:41:38 <oerjan> FireFly: i _think_ swedish and norwegian l are both "clear" (i.e. nonvelarized) in general. it sounded clear on that link you gave, anyway.
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01:43:07 <FireFly> I don't know if we have velarized l at all
01:43:46 <FireFly> Oh, apparently the ll in sv:allt according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_lateral_approximant#Dental_or_denti-alveolar_2
01:44:15 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_lateral_approximant#Dental_or_denti-alveolar
01:45:06 <FireFly> I can't tell if I pronounce that differently or not
01:45:21 <oerjan> FireFly: i pronounce en:full velarized too. i think i basically always do that to english l.
01:45:33 <oerjan> FireFly: iow, like an american afaiu
01:46:56 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: ŋ is the same sound as english writes ng (but _not_ with the g pronounced like in "finger")
01:48:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43178&oldid=43176 * 75.167.89.115 * (+114) added some categories (Imaginer1)
01:50:11 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: like ng in english "sing"
01:50:36 <Nihilumbra> fing and sing are the same sound oerjan
01:51:00 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: it's common for "finger" to have the g pronounced as well in english
01:51:12 <oerjan> but not in "singer" i _think_
01:51:42 <oerjan> i'm not very sure about this.
01:52:08 <Nihilumbra> there's isn't an English word that I know of that has ing in it that doesn't have the g clearly pronounced
01:52:14 <oerjan> but there should be _no_ hard g sound in ng when pronounced in norwegian.
01:53:00 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: i am skeptical, but there are all kinds of english dialect. note that when i say hard g i _don't_ just mean that n is different from ng
01:53:30 <oerjan> i mean that there are essentially two part sounds to -ng- in finger
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01:54:27 <Nihilumbra> I pronounce finger as staya with me here, F- ee-N - gurr
01:54:30 <oerjan> maybe there's always a bit of it left in english
01:54:55 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: well yes, that's what i expect. it's _other_ words than finger i'm wondering about.
01:55:05 <oerjan> e.g. just "sing", with nothing after it.
01:55:48 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: um if you have an a there, i think you have a _weird_ dialect.
01:56:15 * oerjan wishes some other native english speaker would chime in here
01:57:01 <oerjan> FireFly: you're not native english speaker tdnh
01:57:19 <FireFly> That is correct, also my english isn't all that good (especially not the pronounciation)
01:57:20 <oerjan> i think i'm at the point where i won't believe the judgement of anyone who isn't.
01:57:51 <Nihilumbra> its for me S ee n g "a" and the a is a fast syllable so its only audible in words that end with ing
01:59:34 <Nihilumbra> After a person says a word and hear the correct pronounciation I can say it back with no error
02:00:43 <Nihilumbra> ??? I'm confused no one else pronounces it like that?
02:01:18 <FireFly> Where do you live, if you don't mind?
02:02:08 <Nihilumbra> Washington state but I was born and raised in pallasgreen, Limerick and leanred English there
02:04:31 <boily> ♪ DING ♪ new PDF version!
02:10:03 <boily> @ask elliott where are you? did you die?
02:10:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.6655
02:11:57 <boily> too much of a hassle now. will do quotes later.
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03:42:41 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
03:43:11 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/on .*/on EFnet or DALnet./' wisdom/esoteric
03:43:18 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
03:43:39 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:44:03 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: we found out there was an #esoteric on EFnet, which may be more alive than the DALnet one.
03:44:28 <oerjan> so i'm updating the advice.
03:45:23 <oerjan> my vague understanding is that EFnet doesn't have a global way of accessing it, you need to look up their server list e.g. on the web.
03:46:07 <oerjan> i might be confused about it, though.
03:46:16 * oerjan isn't on EFnet himself.
03:47:12 <pikhq> Um, irc.efnet.org works.
03:48:19 <oerjan> i'm probably confused then, or outdated.
03:49:06 <FireFly> I don't know if they do SSL, probably not
03:49:19 <FireFly> You're better off just looking it up instead
03:49:24 <oerjan> i _still_ think looking it up is... right
03:51:02 <FireFly> Presumably about 10 more than the DALnet channel
03:53:07 <pikhq> Only some of their servers do SSL.
03:53:57 <pikhq> Not that it hurts as much for them as it would for others -- no nickserv means no logins.
03:54:32 <pikhq> EFnet does not do services.
03:54:43 <pikhq> There is no nickserv. There is no chanserv.
03:55:50 <zzo38> Did you add the wisdom file for "Plain TeX" yet?
03:56:16 <oerjan> `le/rn plain tex/Plain TeX is plain annoying.
03:56:26 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka.
03:56:28 <oerjan> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU NAG
03:57:01 <zzo38> `le/rn plain tex/Plain TeX is plain annoying. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU NAG
03:57:54 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'plain tex'
04:00:51 <zzo38> Oops sorry I shouldn't repeat myself
04:01:02 <oerjan> `learn PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
04:01:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'pdf': PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
04:01:24 <oerjan> you may note a common thread here.
04:01:24 <zzo38> Sometimes I push "REPEAT" by mistake
04:01:51 <HackEgo> Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience.
04:01:57 <oerjan> you have a REPEAT key that your irc client understands?
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04:18:46 <FireFly> Hm, if one had a re-programmable keyboard, one could add a REPEAT key that repeats everything up until the last enter
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04:19:26 <Lyka> sir robin ran away, oh brae sir robin...
04:19:32 <Lyka> when danger reared its ugly head he tucked his tail and turned and ran, oh brave brave sir robin
04:20:01 <zzo38> I don't have a re-programmable keyboard
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04:34:16 <HackEgo> LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \}
04:35:23 <HackEgo> Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language
04:35:41 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
04:36:07 <oren> `unidecode ��V�>WIד�.��
04:36:08 <HackEgo> [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+0056 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+0057 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER W] [U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I] [U+05D3 HEBREW LETTER DALET] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+002E FULL STOP] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT C
04:36:51 <zzo38> Make it to including improper UTF-8 codes too
04:37:06 <zzo38> O, yes, you also forgot Python and Ruby
04:37:14 <Nihilumbra> you can't spell slaughter without laughter
04:37:59 <Lyka> what does this code do: for(;P("\n"),R--;P("|"))for(e=C;e--;P("_"+(*u++/8)%2))P("| "+(*u/4)%2);
04:38:59 <zzo38> I don't know what the P means here even.
04:39:02 <oren> Lyka: enhances someone's job security
04:39:10 <oren> that is'nt normal C
04:40:04 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.
04:40:18 <Lyka> it's from the unix hoax page
04:40:33 <Elronnd> java is a language for dumb teachers
04:40:39 <zzo38> I happen to like C instead of C++ but you can program C++ too if you like that one too.
04:40:48 <Lyka> Elronnd: incorrect. C# *is* Java
04:41:13 <zzo38> No, I think C# is a different program language from Java, and uses a different VM too
04:41:36 <Lyka> in college, we had to learn jaa before we could learn C#'
04:41:50 <oren> C# is way better than Java
04:42:06 <zzo38> Have you learned 6502 assembly language programming?
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04:43:00 <Lyka> you must be oungr than me
04:43:06 <oren> `le/rn C#/C Pound is Java's good twin.
04:43:23 <HackEgo> C Pound is Java's good twin.
04:44:07 <zzo38> You can learn 6502 assembly language programming to program Famicom and also some other computers
04:44:40 <Lyka> why whoul anyone in their right mid wanna program an NES?
04:45:08 <oren> Lyka: to make classic awesome video games like Super Mario Bros 3
04:45:21 <oren> Or to modify them for fun
04:45:34 <zzo38> Lyka: Well, I think it is a good system
04:45:56 <Nihilumbra> Wouldn't you think it to be cool if your mother could make you NES games, lyka?
04:46:16 <Lyka> i think it would be weird
04:46:26 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl id do bf @ ? .
04:48:08 <Lyka> we have different moms
04:48:59 <zzo38> I think 6502 is a good programming language compared to the mess they made of the newest x86 and ARM systems
04:50:13 <Nihilumbra> but I asked if would be cool if you had a mom like that as in your mom doesn't up and learn 6502 and start scrapping nes games together and making new ones lyka
04:51:07 <zzo38> Some people still do make game for NES/Famicom today.
04:51:21 <Lyka> are you saying you tried to insult my mother?
04:52:34 <Nihilumbra> don't even try to make assumptions of what I say
04:54:02 <Nihilumbra> Insulting ones mother is a bad thing to do but if I were to do It I would be to the point and not work my way around with an argument, Although I don't know your mother but she seems nice
04:54:49 <Lyka> and i am hungry and half-asleep which means my paranoia is more than normal
04:55:39 <Lyka> i gotta go get my midnight snack before the cloc hits 1am
04:57:21 <Nihilumbra> because staying up is extremely unhealthy
04:59:28 <Lyka> so is arguing with a crazy tired person at one am
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05:09:31 <zzo38> Is "ZZLEEP" a real word?
05:10:51 <zzo38> I haven't updated the level20.tex in a while, not any new chapters, not any corrections to what it already is. But it probably contains mistakes that I have not yet noticed
05:17:00 <zzo38> One day I was trying to play someone's Hammond organ but it wouldn't turn on; the owner said that probably the motor is broken. But I thought surely that must be wrong because it doesn't have a motor it works by electrics! But, I did not know it had rotating speakers.
05:22:31 <oren> sometimes the 'dependencies' on packages are clearly not
05:24:03 <oren> on the libSDL-dev package on Ubuntu, it says it is dependent on pulseaudio client development package. but sdl programs compile and run just fine without any pulseaudio
05:26:12 <zzo38> Can you edit the package?
05:27:50 <oren> I prefer to simply download packages manually and then run dpkg
05:29:51 <oren> dpkg doesn't automatically download dependent packages, so you can control it better when you notice the dependencies are stupid
05:33:21 <oren> `le/rn apt-get/apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted.
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05:37:32 <shachaf> regular old `learn would have worked there
05:37:40 <shachaf> bu `le/rn is obviously superior
05:41:01 <oren> mednafen includes every emulator known to mankind, but for tha reason it takes a million years to comile
05:43:51 <shachaf> `` mkdir wisdom/le; echo 'le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past' > wisdom/le/rn
05:43:51 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `wisdom/le': File exists \ bash: wisdom/le/rn: Not a directory
05:44:21 <HackEgo> rn seems to be working rn but it didn't earlier
05:44:30 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/le; mkdir wisdom/le; echo 'le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past' > wisdom/le/rn
05:44:32 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/le': Is a directory \ mkdir: cannot create directory `wisdom/le': File exists
05:44:44 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past
05:46:42 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/le/rn
05:56:07 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
06:02:35 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon.
06:07:27 <Lyka> oren: you called me?
06:08:23 <oren> `le/rn tar/The command you're looking for is probably either tar -xavkf or tar -cavf
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06:10:10 <oren> Never, ever, forget the -k in tar -xavkf
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06:18:24 <oren> ...yeah. a year ago I spent an hour modding some program that did almost what I needed, to do what I needed, and then pressed up, up, enter with the wrong number of ups, obliterating it.
06:22:56 <oren> the -a is jus convenience, so you don't have to remember that z is gzip, Z is compress, j is bzip2, J is xzip
06:23:32 <zzo38> I generally just use pipes though
06:23:56 <zzo38> tar doesn't need all of those options
06:24:51 <zzo38> The best way is to design the program to follow the principle to use pipes as much as possible. My own software such as AmigaMML is following such principle.
06:25:34 <oren> well it is GNU tar. GNU wouldn't be GNU without their habit of adding every possible letter as an option letter to every program
06:26:02 <zzo38> GNU adds too much stuff
06:26:04 <FireFly> oren: GNU tar does -a implicitly I suppose. I usually just tar xf and it handles tar, tar.gz, tar.bz2 and tar.xz
06:30:26 <zzo38> You can pipe zcat to tar, that's how you do it
06:32:48 <FireFly> I'm dealing with an archive format at the moment where each file might be stored plain or compressed.. what would you do in such a case?
06:33:10 <zzo38> What kind of archive format is that?
06:33:32 <FireFly> "GARC", I don't know what the G stands for
06:33:55 <shachaf> FireFly: A decompression program that detects whether the file is compressed?
06:33:57 <FireFly> It's used in Pokemon X/Y to store things
06:34:21 <zzo38> If the archive format itself is having compression, then it can be part of the same program.
06:34:44 <zzo38> If the compression is separate (like with .tar.gz) then you should use the separate program.
06:35:04 <FireFly> shachaf: right, that's pretty much what I'm doing currently
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08:13:33 <oren> the newest mednafen supports custom palettes
08:22:07 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/vbym49fob/
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08:26:55 <oren> the palette format is pretty much undocumented, but by reading the source and experimenting, I concluded that a complete palette is 24 bytes, consisting of 8 24-bit colors
08:27:42 <oren> (for the game boy. I don't know what the format for other systems it)
08:31:12 <oren> but it's refresing actually. there's no complex header or version number or other such nonsense. just 24 bytes.
08:33:01 <FireFly> What upscaling algorithm is that?
08:43:30 <Taneb> What's a polite way of saying "You seem to know me but I have no idea who you are"
08:47:24 <oren> I dunno. "Have we met before?" is maybe the best I can come up with
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09:04:38 <oren> I've noticed a bug in one of their scalers, I'm gonna try to fix it
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09:26:46 <mroman_> Taneb: I'm sorry but right now I'm struggling to remember our last encounter.
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09:53:45 <oren> ha! fixed the bug
09:54:50 <oren> hold on, I'll make a sample
09:59:22 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/5hv845msv/b791af2c/
09:59:55 <oren> illustrates the difference. see the weird pinwheel effect in the nose of the spacefighter
10:00:47 <oren> I fixed that, but it looks different in other situations. I think I'll try to fix that too
10:02:39 <oren> Hmm I guess it's less of a bug fix and more a custom algorithm
10:03:16 <oren> but hey that's the entire point of using open-source software anyay
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11:26:32 <mroman_> damnit I forgot to push some things to my Gulf repos from work :(
11:32:55 <mroman_> Even though there's some overhead with , and . much of the stuff can be done shorter than Burlesque
11:33:05 <mroman_> 1bc4ro?/ for example, is now a mere ,Z1/:4
11:39:44 <mroman_> I might need another prefix for 3 argument functions
11:44:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43179&oldid=40993 * Sacchan * (+432)
11:45:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43180&oldid=43179 * Sacchan * (+1)
11:49:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43181&oldid=43180 * Sacchan * (+0)
11:50:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43182&oldid=43181 * Sacchan * (+0)
11:51:38 <fizzie> Taneb: You can say you've lost your memory because of a tragic accident, I understand that's pretty common.
11:51:49 <fizzie> (Based on fiction, anyway.)
12:19:23 <Jafet> More fun complexity analyses: O(n^34 k^34 d^8 log(n)^4 / σ^6)
12:20:02 <int-e> for some reason I'm imagining a posh voice saying "I'm sorry, but have we met?!" (bonus: raised eybrows)
12:20:51 <Jafet> (Upper bound on smoothed running time for the k-means algorithm)
12:21:16 <int-e> Jafet: that looks horrible.
12:21:52 <Jafet> I just find it amusing that they bothered to include the log(n)^4
12:22:41 <int-e> because otherwise it's not a valid upper bound?
12:22:56 <int-e> I guess they could've used n^(34+o(1))...
12:23:17 * int-e wonders what the o is
12:23:40 <Jafet> (or how they got 34 over n and only 4 over log(n))
12:24:55 <Jafet> o(1) means that it tends to zero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation#Little-o_notation
12:25:56 <int-e> ah you had a sigma there... sorry, the difference is very subtle in the font I'm using.
12:26:43 <int-e> so the question I meant to ask is, what's that σ
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12:28:36 <Jafet> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-means_clustering#Complexity, d is the dimension and σ is the stddev for randomly smoothing the input data
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12:33:55 <Lyka> i didn't know that 'K' meant clstering...
12:34:28 <Lyka> just making a joe on the URL
12:36:14 * Lyka is clearly the stupidest person in th room
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13:07:15 <fizzie> "The running time of Lloyds algorithm is often given as O(nkdi), where n is the number of d-dimensional vectors, k the number of clusters and i the number of iterations needed until convergence."
13:07:23 <fizzie> I like the 'i' part, since you can nicely generalize that to "the running time of algorithm X is O(t), where t is the number of operations performed by the algorithm".
13:12:01 <FireFly> Amazing. It's linear in the time taken by the algorithm
13:15:30 <Melvar> fizzie: Is there an obvious bound on i?
13:33:32 <J_Arcane> nerding it up old school https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/607539688317022208
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13:39:38 <HackEgo> BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
13:40:17 <Melvar> fizzie: So more like, the running time is unbounded?
13:40:52 <Phantom_Hoover> did you know there's a character in xcom called van doorn
13:41:02 <Taneb> Yes, someone has told me in the pst
13:41:17 <Taneb> It's not an unheard of name in the Netherlands
13:42:19 <Taneb> There is a DJ and a former anti-Islam politician who converted to Islam
13:44:42 <int-e> `rot0 this seems useful
13:47:13 <Taneb> `rot26 this seems MORE useful
13:48:26 <Taneb> Can anyone think of a cunning way to put all my inventions on my CV
13:49:06 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence.
13:49:18 <HackEgo> TIL that TIL means Today I Learned
13:49:32 <HackEgo> Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since.
13:49:41 <int-e> Ah, that kind of persistence.
13:51:53 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
13:52:56 <int-e> "We call a property of many-sorted TRS's persistent if a many-sorted TRS has the property if and only if its adjoined one-sorted TRS has the property."
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14:06:41 <oren> I figured out how to add a custom scaler to mednafen
14:07:16 <oren> I;m gonna make one that is hideously inefficient but makes eveything look exactly right
14:09:39 <oren> actually maybe it can still be efficiant if I get the order of the tests correct
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14:39:36 <oren> coming along ok http://s17.postimg.org/48v0giw0v/notperfect.png
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14:55:26 <izabera> i just downloaded advent children again
14:55:52 <izabera> when it came out, i was like "ok this is it. there will never be 3d graphic more perfect than this."
14:56:09 <izabera> the fire is ugly, the detail is low overall
14:56:29 <izabera> i mean it's still cool but :(
14:56:49 <oerjan> 's ok. in a century we'll think real life has shitty graphics hth
14:58:04 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah, especially the effects
14:58:57 <b_jonas> oerjan: we need more people like Tarquin, who install dimmers in their palace just so they can give foreshadowings in a monologue better
14:59:07 <int-e> izabera: I remember admiring the graphics of Myst...
14:59:53 <oerjan> that does sound like tarquin although i don't remember the scene.
14:59:59 <int-e> Nowadays even the remastered edition (16bit images, no longer restricted to an 8 bit palette!!) looks quite plain.
15:01:44 <int-e> note, they only had prerendered gaphics. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Myst-library_and_ship.jpg
15:01:52 <int-e> that picture is fairly typical.
15:02:39 <int-e> it was one of the first games to ship exclusively on on CDROM.
15:03:12 <b_jonas> maybe people should play sound effects on their mobile phones during dialogs or meetings
15:09:06 <b_jonas> oerjan: dimmers are in strip #751
15:13:57 <oren> So what i'm gonna do is, I'm gonna look at 21 pixels instead of nine around each pixel
15:18:21 <oren> and then just write ad-hoc code for every situation
15:20:38 * Lyka thinks he is stupidest person in the room
15:20:41 <Melvar> Blah. Is there a standard haskell function splitting a number into digits?
15:22:15 <Lyka> or else this topic is not my are of knowledge
15:23:15 <oerjan> Lyka: i wouldn't bet on that. at least not all the time.
15:23:23 <int-e> @type showIntAtBase
15:23:25 <lambdabot> (Integral a, Show a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> ShowS
15:24:13 <oerjan> int-e: itym "show" hth
15:24:17 <Melvar> int-e: Yeah, but that involves roundtripping through Char.
15:24:23 <int-e> oerjan: that was my first reply
15:24:39 <Melvar> Also for different bases, yes. Sorry, forgot to specify that.
15:25:40 <Melvar> I mean “map digitToInt (showIntAtBase base intToDigit num "")” works, but I wanted to know if there isn’t something a bit more elegant.
15:26:09 <oerjan> i don't think there's anything else that handles other bases.
15:26:40 <oerjan> it's rather stupid that showIntAtBase is restricted to Char :(
15:26:57 <oerjan> there's no intrinsic reason why it should be.
15:27:19 <int-e> > let d b n | b > n = [n] | otherwise = let (x:xs) = d (b^2) n in (if x < b then (x :) else (div x b :) . (mod x b :)) (xs >>= \x -> [div x b, mod x b]) in [d b 1000 | b <- [2,8,10,16]]
15:27:24 <lambdabot> [[1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,0],[1,7,5,0],[1,0,0,0],[3,14,8]]
15:27:32 <oerjan> i think there's been at least one proposal to generalize it.
15:27:39 <Jafet> map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b)
15:28:26 <oerjan> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.libraries/24560
15:28:51 <int-e> @let d b n | b > n = [n] | otherwise = let (x:xs) = d (b^2) n in (if x < b then (x :) else (div x b :) . (mod x b :)) (xs >>= \x -> [div x b, mod x b])
15:28:53 <lambdabot> It could refer to either ‘L.d’, defined at .L.hs:147:1
15:29:28 <int-e> @let digits b n | b > n = [n] | otherwise = let (x:xs) = digits (b^2) n in (if x < b then (x :) else (div x b :) . (mod x b :)) (xs >>= \x -> [div x b, mod x b])
15:29:38 <int-e> > digits 9 (10^10000)
15:29:40 <lambdabot> [3,0,8,8,0,8,2,5,0,4,5,2,7,4,6,0,5,2,4,8,5,8,5,3,2,5,4,3,8,0,6,6,3,2,3,8,0,0...
15:30:00 <int-e> > let digits b = map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) in digits 9 (10^10000)
15:30:03 <lambdabot> [1,1,4,2,0,4,3,3,0,0,6,4,2,7,2,5,4,8,4,6,4,0,8,6,2,8,6,2,5,4,0,0,7,5,7,5,3,3...
15:30:31 <int-e> > let digits b = map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) in reverse $ digits 9 (10^10000)
15:30:34 <lambdabot> [3,0,8,8,0,8,2,5,0,4,5,2,7,4,6,0,5,2,4,8,5,8,5,3,2,5,4,3,8,0,6,6,3,2,3,8,0,0...
15:30:51 <int-e> > let digits b = map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) in reverse $ digits 9 (10^100000)
15:31:02 <int-e> > digits 9 (10^10000)
15:31:05 <lambdabot> [3,0,8,8,0,8,2,5,0,4,5,2,7,4,6,0,5,2,4,8,5,8,5,3,2,5,4,3,8,0,6,6,3,2,3,8,0,0...
15:31:20 <int-e> > digits 9 (10^100000)
15:31:23 <lambdabot> [1,3,8,0,5,3,6,7,3,7,4,7,0,7,2,3,0,0,0,2,5,7,0,7,6,1,5,2,0,7,7,1,7,3,0,0,6,3...
15:31:37 <int-e> sorry, I spammed a bit more than I intended.
15:35:09 <int-e> Melvar: anyway I'd use something like Jafet's code if the numbers are small, and something like mine if the numbers can become big. If I really cared about performance for big numbers I'd start by computing the largest power of b that fits into a machine word...
15:36:29 <Melvar> int-e, Jafet: Thank you.
15:38:42 <Melvar> For my purpose the numbers shall always be 1114111 in bases 8, 10, and 16, but magic numbers and stuff.
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15:45:54 <oerjan> this opposition on the list to generalizing showIntAtBase is weird - afaict from the code, the *only* change necessary is the type signature.
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15:49:21 <oerjan> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.libraries/24560
15:51:42 * Melvar is just going to roundtrip through showIntAtBase because that way it’s most obvious what it’s doing. <ω<
15:56:05 <int-e> Oh nice, ghc's "show" for Integer is still using my code, virtually unmodified since 2006 :)
15:57:49 <int-e> (but I never followed up on the idea of also improving the generic showIntAtBase)
15:58:43 <oerjan> shachaf: depends on whether you believe in last tuesdayism hth
15:59:28 <oerjan> but i do have you down as probably older than 9. most of the time.
16:00:55 <shachaf> what else do you have me down as
16:01:59 <oerjan> lessee, jewish, vegetarian, bit on the nosy side...
16:02:16 <oerjan> oh and haskeller of course.
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16:06:10 <shachaf> i somewhat have to wonder how the first one came about
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16:08:00 <oerjan> shachaf: lessee was an interjection hth
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16:08:30 <shachaf> i understood, but that would be a good pun
16:09:35 <oerjan> i didn't actually know it had a different meaning until now
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16:19:54 <oren> having only some patterns implemented causes a weird appearance
16:26:19 <oren> like some parts of the screen are silky smooth, while others are pixelated
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16:31:02 <Vorpal> Why does gyroscopic precession work the way it does?
16:31:29 * oerjan suddenly wonders if some of the more inane wisdoms are symbolic links that got broken
16:31:36 <HackEgo> ocean/The pacific ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The atlantic ocean is less cool than its giant underwater moutain range. The arctic ocean is cold. The indian ocean is full of typhoons and non-eurocentric shipping.
16:31:56 <b_jonas> Vorpal: because http://www.xkcd.com/332/
16:32:04 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/moutain/mountain/' wisdom/ocean
16:32:43 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type l | while read f; do echo -n "$(basename "$f")/"; readlink "$f"; done
16:32:44 <HackEgo> the reals/real \ perpetuum mobile/perpetual motion machine \ the torus/torus \ koen_/koen \ issue/.doorstop \ canary/../canary
16:34:24 <oerjan> `le/rn ocean/The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping.
16:34:41 <Vorpal> b_jonas, came across it again when reading about helicopters. I guess the issue is that unlike the other basic laws of newtonian motion, it makes no intuitive sense
16:34:48 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
16:37:23 <oerjan> shachaf: that's exactly the opposite of what i wondered. i was wondering if there were wisdoms that *used* to be symbolic links, but due to repository/whatever interaction got changed into ordinary files with the destination as plain text.
16:37:54 <shachaf> why would the destination be plain text?
16:38:26 <oerjan> because iirc that's what it looks like if you manage to directly cat a symbolic link
16:38:58 <oerjan> that's what symbolic links look like in the repository browser
16:39:54 <oerjan> so i assume that's what the repository thinks they are, and it's only plain luck if it doesn't get munged to that in accidental `reverts and the like.
16:40:53 <oerjan> i guess my summary is: i don't trust symbolic links to survive `revert wars.
16:41:13 <Vorpal> oerjan, if it is hg, hg fully supports symlinks afaik
16:41:22 <oerjan> Vorpal: ok let's hope so.
16:43:40 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; echo test >wisdom/torus
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16:44:14 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them.
16:44:23 <oerjan> ok you seem to be right
16:44:54 <oerjan> ...now wondering about `undo
16:45:03 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; echo test >wisdom/torus
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16:46:10 <oerjan> HackEgo seems to be rather slow at this
16:46:22 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/torus
16:46:38 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them.
16:47:14 <oerjan> shachaf: i shall stop worrying about HackEgo symbolic links until further notice tdh
16:48:08 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 61 Jun 7 16:47 wisdom/torus
16:49:15 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; ln -s 'the torus' wisdom/torus
16:49:22 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Jun 7 16:50 wisdom/torus -> the torus
16:50:30 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type f | while read f; do [ -f "$f" ] || continue; a="$(cat "$f")"; [ -f "wisdom/$a" ] && echo "${f#wisdom/}/$a"; done
16:50:33 <oerjan> shachaf: ok `revert and `undo *do* break symbolic links - but the contents seem to become the target contents, not the file name.
16:50:56 <HackEgo> quit//quit \ solain/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
16:51:53 <oerjan> @tell Gregor `revert (and `undo) don't reinstate symbolic links properly ;_;
16:52:20 <HackEgo> ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
16:52:52 <shachaf> those seem p. inane but it looks like they're meant to be that way
16:54:43 <oerjan> i suspect the breakage i saw will show up as two wisdoms being identical.
16:56:21 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access *wolfram*: No such file or directory
16:56:26 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/*wolfram*
16:56:27 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/stephen wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/wolfram
16:56:50 <oerjan> `` diff wisdom/*wolfram*
16:57:01 <oerjan> those seem like pretty good candidates
16:57:15 <shachaf> oerjan: yes, but i already wrote that loop hth
16:57:48 <oerjan> shachaf: wait what loop
16:58:07 <shachaf> the one that loops for symlinks in your previous failure mode
16:58:42 <oerjan> shachaf: um the previous that i don't believe in any longer?
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17:00:58 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm saying, i know that's how the breakage shows up, but i already wrote that loop
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18:15:21 <HackEgo> å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
18:16:24 <boily> confirmation I missed at least one entry.
18:17:10 <coppro> since I'm going to meet you apparently, why did you actually compile wisdom.pdf? "Why not?" is acceptable
18:17:30 <HackEgo> Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
18:19:05 <boily> coppro: I felt like it. nothing like a beautifully typeset document.
18:20:03 <boily> also, I'm our DnD group note taker and journal maker. It's a tradition to read the day's highlights standing on a chair.
18:20:06 <ais523> it feels like a #esoteric kind of thing to do
18:20:26 <boily> there's even a makefile!
18:21:32 <coppro> we should try to have a meeting sometime, with parliamentary procedure
18:21:54 <coppro> but no one is allowed advance notice of the meeting and everyone is required to use a different set of rules
18:22:15 <boily> can I chose the parliament? will a simple town hall do?
18:22:26 <boily> also, do you have a github account?
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18:22:39 <coppro> yes, but there isn't much of interest on it. why?
18:23:18 <boily> Deewiant: Dheellowiant. I'm updating the Wisdom PDF, and there aren't any descriptions under your section. care to provide some info about yourself twh?
18:23:32 <coppro> in fact I'm going to clean up my github by deleting stuff nobody cared about anyway
18:23:34 <boily> coppro: to add you as a collaborator to the repo.
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18:27:11 <coppro> no I don't know why I made that logo
18:27:33 <coppro> I need to get a decent picture of my face to use as a fact in all the places they expect a face
18:30:02 <HackEgo> Deewiant is the world's number one expert on Befunge and Funge-98.
18:30:13 <zzo38> I also play Dungeons&Dragons game but not since March 27, I type all the notes on computer
18:30:53 <boily> Deewiant: oh. I was simply missing it. will be added soon. tdh.
18:30:56 <Deewiant> Actually that may be inaccurate, I think the original quote is 2009-04-02 00:20:06 (ais523) Deewiant here is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing
18:31:25 <boily> hmm... tough call. I think I'll be going with the latter. more #esöteric.
18:31:34 <boily> and it's ais523approved too!
18:31:58 <boily> coppro: I use my universal kaki for everything that expects an avatar.
18:32:39 <shachaf> i hope you don't have any description of me
18:33:06 <boily> yes. oh que oui j'ai une description. mouah ah ah.
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18:34:01 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
18:34:14 <HackEgo> funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf.
18:35:04 <HackEgo> boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department.
18:35:29 <HackEgo> metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
18:35:55 <HackEgo> lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src.
18:36:00 <Deewiant> `learn Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing.
18:36:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'deewiant': Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing.
18:36:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coppro: not found
18:36:27 <HackEgo> coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy.
18:37:01 <fizzie> I think ø should rot13 to b̷. Or at least something.
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18:37:31 <coppro> http://rot8000.com/index
18:37:46 <HackEgo> Only fools such as zzo38 and so on try to use AmigaMML on a PC. Real Men try to use AmigaMML on a Amiga computer. \ https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Frequently_and_unfrequently_asked_questions
18:38:16 <boily> I think I prefer fizzie's suggestion. let's see how I can massage the latex to get a stroked b.
18:38:18 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg
18:38:25 <HackEgo> log/I think you might mean !logs
18:39:14 <zzo38> Well, relative to wise people I am a bit foolish
18:39:21 <ais523> hmm, my browser thinks that .jpg is a "26300 file" rather than a jpeg
18:39:59 <int-e> Content-Type: application/binary <-- not helpful
18:40:18 <ais523> is that even a real content type?
18:40:22 <zzo38> Can you override MIME types in your browser?
18:40:34 <zzo38> (In the one I use, it has that capability)
18:40:56 <Melvar> < fizzie> I think ø should rot13 to b̷. Or at least something. – Does that happen if you NFKD it first?
18:40:58 <shachaf> So I could view things that are sent as application/octet-stream as text/plain or application/pdf or something.
18:41:24 <zzo38> Clearly is a lot of missing
18:41:34 <Deewiant> shachaf: https://github.com/spasche/openinbrowser if firefox
18:41:56 <boily> @ask Dulnes hi there! we're missing an official description of you for... uh... purposes. care to provide one twh? have a nice diurnal episode.
18:43:04 <boily> re Dulnes: I put in a placeholder.
18:43:38 <zzo38> `? Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe
18:43:38 <HackEgo> Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe? ¯\(°_o)/¯
18:43:42 <boily> int-e: I'm adding this new description, but keeping the old one two.
18:44:21 <zzo38> `learn 2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle.
18:44:24 <HackEgo> Learned '2600': 2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle.
18:44:42 <int-e> oh is it the one that allowed free phone calls?
18:45:35 <zzo38> On some systems it allowed you to set the routing of calls yourself, so you could get free phone calls and other stuff
18:46:04 <zzo38> It is also the name of a magazine published quarterly
18:46:18 <zzo38> They often have strange stuff in the letters section
18:46:26 <HackEgo> nortti boy. very nortti boy.
18:46:58 <boily> b_jhellonas. this is the Department of Wisdom. you are undescripted. please provide some witty quip or prepare to be granted a Government Approved tagline. your cooperation is appreciated.
18:47:19 <int-e> `learn Me is a proud member of the tEaM.
18:47:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'me': Me is a proud member of the tEaM.
18:48:23 <HackEgo> 731) <oklopol> nortti: fizzie has done some impressive stuff in befunge, which is essentially the two-dimensional version of finnish politics. \ 732) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised. <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised \ 1202) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint wit
18:48:34 <HackEgo> 1202) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later.
18:48:54 <int-e> nortti: thinking about that complaint ;)
18:49:05 <boily> b_jonas: apparently, there's a placeholder under your section for the time being.
18:49:14 <coppro> am I an honourary citizen of Procrasti?
18:49:39 <b_jonas> witty quip? hmm, that's difficult
18:49:45 <coppro> I never got around to filling out my citizenship application
18:49:56 <int-e> coppro: I suppose the Procrastination isn't very picky with its citizens.
18:50:44 <HackEgo> 1119) <ion> olsner: For all x, the probability of a monad tutorial existing that explains monads as x approaches one as time goes to infinity. <boily> good monadic morning! <ion> Monads are a bit like mornings. <myname> what
18:51:14 <HackEgo> 368) <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. \ 515) <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Sort of a monadic human centipede. \ 516) <elliott> When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a monad. \ 527) <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearrang
18:52:08 <int-e> Let it be stated clearly once and for all that this is not a Haskell channel. ... *runs*
18:52:42 <nortti> oh, right, you're here too
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18:52:55 <HackEgo> 85) <Warrigal> Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. \ 135) <fizzie> It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". <fizzie> "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." \ 143) <fungot> Vorpal: you can't plant spiders
18:52:57 <olsner> int-e: let's just pretend that haskell is an esolang then
18:53:10 <boily> @ask vanila good moment of the day! would you care being shamelessly wisdomified? twh and all that sort of thing.
18:53:26 <HackEgo> 1202) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later.
18:53:32 <int-e> olsner: right, let's quote https://xkcd.com/1312/ as a proof
18:53:52 <int-e> `? procrastination
18:53:53 <HackEgo> procrastination? ¯\(°_o)/¯
18:54:04 <nortti> shikhin: no one's gotten around to adding those
18:54:32 <HackEgo> 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ ｗｉｌｌ ｃａｕｓｅ ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ ｂｙ ｂｅｉｎｇ ｈｉｌａｒｉｏｕｓ
18:54:45 <HackEgo> 33) <mycroftiv> [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective
18:54:52 <boily> fungot dammit. this one's going to be interesting to include.
18:54:52 <fungot> boily: joku linuxista fnord cd mp3 fnord?
18:55:23 <boily> fungot: そうですね… しょうがないなぁ…
18:55:23 <fungot> boily: eg? with code in the backtrace
18:55:38 <fungot> boily: most of these comments are ones i'd never consider fnord them by calling their product ice cream. fnord.
18:56:01 <boily> fungot: you should see the Source of the Wisdom. quite a few comments in therre.
18:58:27 <int-e> `learn The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube.
18:58:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'procrastination': The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube.
19:01:55 <HackEgo> szoup/A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit.
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19:12:52 <boily> @ask rdococ rdhellococ! I will spontaneously describe you in the next minutes. would you like to have an autodescription instead?
19:13:30 <HackEgo> automatic squirrel feeder/Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them.
19:13:36 <HackEgo> lie/Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
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19:13:53 <zzo38> That's good I like that too
19:14:10 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
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19:14:45 <int-e> boily: you can play with \scalebox: \scalebox{2}[1]{zzo38:it will cause problems by being hilarious}
19:15:22 <boily> int-e: I found an interesting solution already :P
19:15:30 <boily> (will try yours in a few.)
19:17:21 <int-e> \emph{Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion.} <-- is "eliot" spelled that way intentionally?
19:17:58 <ais523> there are a bunch of misspelled elliotts around, they're mostly other people
19:18:31 <boily> int-e: yes. this is entirely volitional.
19:19:45 <int-e> `? the identity function
19:19:45 <HackEgo> the identity function? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:20:00 <int-e> `? identity function
19:20:00 <HackEgo> The identity function is a mockingbird.
19:20:47 <int-e> I thought M x = x x... Smullyan called I the Idiot bird.
19:23:40 <boily> ♪ DONG ♪ new PDF version!
19:25:41 <ais523> the identity function isn't a mockingbird
19:25:51 <ais523> wisdom's just lying, as normal
19:26:36 <doesthiswork> has anyone heard of the language Toadskin? I just found a reference to it in speculative grammarian and it appears to consist of the characters :;.><+-vxVX http://specgram.com/CLI.2/04.davis.acquisition.html
19:26:44 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
19:26:46 <boily> meanwhile, there's an interesting typo on wikipédia's article on haiku: “...even to the point of occasionally end-stopping a phrase with a shōjoshi (少女詩 sentence ending particle)...”
19:27:23 <boily> doesthiswork: VX? http://www.reddit.com/r/vxjunkies ?
19:28:24 <ais523> doesthiswork: I've heard of it, but I can't remember details
19:28:41 <ais523> doesthiswork: looks like the wiki knows: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Toadskin
19:28:44 <boily> instead of a 終助詞 (shūjoshi: end particle), they wrote 少女詩 (shōjoshi: small girl poem).
19:29:09 <ais523> it seems to be brainfuck, but with Forth's : and ; instructions
19:29:14 <ais523> which is at least more interesting than most BF derivatives
19:30:40 <doesthiswork> I wonder why they chose that particular esoteric language to use.
19:31:03 <ais523> (the vxVX aren't part of the language but because you have : and ; you can define them)
19:32:07 <ais523> how do nested : and ; work in Forth?
19:32:27 <ais523> is it possible to do flow control entirely with them by continuously redefining commands later in the program, or is there some sort of entropy issue?
19:32:37 <ais523> like, can you construct an infinite loop with them
19:36:54 <nys> well in ordinary forth you can't nest : ;
19:36:56 <zzo38> You can't nest : and ; in Forth
19:37:14 <Koen__> isn't it weird that > is pop and < is push?
19:37:21 <nys> because the action of : is to allot space for a new word and switch to compilation mode
19:37:31 <ais523> oh, that's disappointing :-(
19:37:37 <nys> just like how " can't be nested in bash
19:37:51 <zzo38> When executing, the : reads another word and begins a new definition and then enter compile mode, and then the ; compiles EXIT and then goes back to execute mode
19:38:25 <ais523> " can be nested in INTERCAL :-P
19:38:43 <boily> INTERCAL can do everything.
19:38:46 <ais523> so what does Forth do if it sees an ; while in execute mode?
19:38:56 <zzo38> I think it depend on the implementation
19:38:59 <boily> Koen__: Khelloen__! long time no see!
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19:39:18 <zzo38> Some implementations might treat it as an error like because it is not defined
19:39:37 <Koen__> to be honest my irc client sucks so most of the times I'm too lazy to go on irc
19:40:50 <zzo38> I didn't like the other IRC client either that is why I wrote my own one (which still isn't quite best though)
19:44:05 <int-e> . o O ( There are IRC clients other than irssi? Blasphemy! )
19:44:36 <zzo38> Yes I think there is many different kinds
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20:02:46 <ais523> int-e: I use Konversation; and IIRC, zzo38 uses a client that's basically the raw IRC protocol but with syntax highlighting
20:02:46 <HackEgo> Å/Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
20:02:55 <ais523> and maybe some way to type "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" quickly?
20:03:01 <HackEgo> eurovision/Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing.
20:04:05 <int-e> ais523: fwiw, I have used xchat, but it didn't scale to more than 6 or 7 channels for me...
20:04:29 <zzo38> shachaf: Is what true?
20:04:38 <shachaf> zzo38: You use the IRC client ais523 describes?
20:04:56 <ais523> I dont know the details
20:05:44 <zzo38> At the beginning of a line if a space-bar is pushed it automatically type "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" or whatever the current channel happens to be set to (if there is no current channel, it just beeps and won't actually type a space.)
20:06:13 <zzo38> There are a few other features too though, such as macros, and masking passwords
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20:16:52 <int-e> @type (join . join, join . fmap join)
20:16:54 <lambdabot> (Monad m, Monad m1) => (m (m (m a)) -> m a, m1 (m1 (m1 a1)) -> m1 a1)
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20:25:05 <Nihilumbra> if you say "whale oil beef hooked" really fast it sounds like "well ill be fucked" in an irish accent
20:31:08 <mroman_> I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world...
20:31:38 <int-e> mroman_: oops I did it again!
20:32:13 <int-e> Nihilumbra: No, what I meant is that the very same idea underlies many occurrences of "xxx"
20:32:37 <b_jonas> ais523: by the way, I read the C++ union rules (most of it, anyway), and it's better than I thought
20:32:58 <mroman_> What's Firefox's new "Leseansicht"?
20:33:01 <b_jonas> it's not as easy as I thought to accidentally write code that silently compiles but doesn't work than I thought
20:33:39 <mroman_> esolangs.org is blank in reader view
20:33:40 <ais523> "lese" = reading, "sicht" = sight, "an" is a connective
20:34:45 <Nihilumbra> everything needs javascript mroman_ hth
20:35:34 <mroman_> Just because life gave someone Lemons isn't a good enough justification to make JavaScript out of it
20:36:33 <int-e> mroman_: did you know that Firfox' UI is written in Javascript and XML files (XUL)?
20:39:42 <mroman_> I'm the worlds greatest blasphemist.
20:40:23 <mroman_> Did you know that just by listening on the radio to the past doing the Urbi et Orbi you will be forgiven all your sins?
20:40:28 <int-e> Ok, the feature is called "reader view".
20:41:03 <int-e> fungot: Is Nihilumbra your evil twin?
20:41:03 <fungot> int-e: and you don't even have to aware that it was
20:41:14 <zzo38> I am a heretic too
20:41:21 <coppro> ais523: did you hear about the new MP2 low%?
20:41:40 <int-e> fungot: please clarify
20:41:44 <coppro> it's not technically an improvement in terms of %, but a much, much easier way to get MBI was found
20:41:46 <int-e> fungot: please clarify *to us*
20:41:46 <fungot> int-e: i suspend to disk most of the commercial apps i work on a brainfuck interpreter fails to be a pointer to that url. i'll bookmark it. traffic caps are on at this hour, and they have so much mass that you throw off earth's orbit and we go flying into the sun.
20:41:48 <zzo38> Because, I do not agree much of the stuff of beliefs of Roman Catholics.
20:42:23 <mroman_> It's hard being an Atheist without being a Blasphemist as well
20:42:24 <ais523> I heard about someome doing it speedrun-style
20:42:27 <mroman_> although it would technically be possible.
20:42:43 <coppro> yes, because of hte improvement in the route, it became runnable as a speedrun
20:42:45 <ais523> i.e. single segment and aiming to go quickly
20:42:51 <coppro> miles did a hard mode run of it
20:42:56 <zzo38> mroman_: To me it doesn't seem that someone who is atheist is necessarily blasphemy too
20:43:06 <coppro> and someone did it yesterday on normal as part of a marathon
20:43:36 <coppro> so you know how you need to transition rooms when traveling OoB in the Prime games?
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20:43:58 <mroman_> zzo38: You're only a blasphemist if you ridicule religious things.
20:44:04 <coppro> if you hit a cannon in the inactive room, it will get very confused and leave you with MBI
20:44:27 <ais523> is that the old or new method?
20:44:34 <coppro> old method relied on infinite speed
20:44:47 <coppro> there's a cannon in sanctuary that Miles figured out how to hit, and this skips a lot of the backtracking, plus the light show
20:45:34 <mroman_> and I treat homeopathy as some sort of religious believe.
20:46:31 <coppro> the other improvement miles did compared to the previous 6% I saw is that he got ballsy with Quadraxis skip and unmorphed to cut across, rather than going the long way around
20:46:32 <mroman_> Because if you take some homeopathic remedy and it didn't work it's your fault
20:46:43 <mroman_> because logically if you don't believe in it HOW could it work.
20:46:51 <zzo38> I do not consider myself as an atheist though
20:47:03 <mroman_> I consider myself as a Blasphemist.
20:47:32 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:47:50 <zzo38> Actually, placebo effects can work even if you do not believe in it.
20:47:53 <int-e> phew, for a moment there I thought I was un the wrong channel...
20:47:55 <HackEgo> (.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .>/gro.sgnalose//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW
20:48:02 <zzo38> O, it works backward too!
20:48:17 <zzo38> Now you have to work it sideways.
20:48:36 <int-e> zzo38: it's funny how it swaps ( and ) but not < and >.
20:48:44 <ais523> zzo38: there are a huge variety of welcome messages in HackEgo
20:48:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hellcome: not found
20:49:13 <ais523> OK, idea: instead of `relcome being `relcome, you should have to write `welcome in rainbow colours
20:49:48 <mroman_> Does science count as a religion?
20:49:51 <coppro> ais523: also this isn't speedrunning related, but you'll find it amusing. While in Japan I picked up Japanese copies of MegaMan Battle Network 6. I can't read Japanese, but I want to enjoy the postgame.
20:50:00 <int-e> `` sed -i 's/tr.*/tr \(\)\<\> \)\(\>\</' bin/emoclew
20:50:07 <ais523> coppro: 6 is one of the better games in that series
20:50:20 <zzo38> Although, there are some problems with how science is done so might be consider like religion, but actually it isn't a religion, especially when done properly.
20:50:26 <coppro> ais523: yes. I would say 3 > 2 > 6
20:50:31 <ais523> (also, the issue with the MMBN series is that it has excellent battle mechanics and doesn't really know what to do with the best of the ame)
20:50:33 <zzo38> I also don't like daylight saving time, but that doesn't seem to really have much to do with religion.
20:50:44 <coppro> not sure how I feel about 1 vs. 5, 4 is clearly at the bottom
20:50:45 <int-e> `` sed -i 's/tr.*/tr \\\(\\\)\\\<\\\> \\\)\\\(\\\>\\\</' bin/emoclew
20:50:45 <ais523> coppro: you know, I think I'll agree with that
20:50:52 <shachaf> ais523: Did you update your thesis?
20:50:55 <ais523> I was about to say "not sure about 1 vs 5 but 4 is the worst"
20:51:00 <HackEgo> (.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW
20:51:02 <zzo38> Nevertheless I would want to know statistics about percentages of people of different kind of religion that like and don't like daylight saving time too
20:51:03 <ais523> shachaf: the deadline for the updates is early july
20:51:06 <mroman_> My religion is pretty much: "Accepting that not ever question can be answered or has yet a known answer but you need to search for answers, extend your answers, refine and correct your answers and never stop doing that"
20:51:10 <coppro> 5 is actually the only one I haven't beaten
20:51:32 <ais523> I'm currently reading the lists of corrections I have to make
20:51:40 <coppro> I've 100%ed only 2 and 3. Haven't done 4 because ugh, 5 because I haven't beaten it, and 6 because it's English
20:51:42 <zzo38> mroman_: I agree with that, but do not consider it as religion.
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20:51:59 <coppro> so now that I have Japanese copies I can actually postgame 6
20:52:30 <boily> I'm Tanebventionist.
20:52:34 <zzo38> (Nevertheless, it is a thing that can involve religion, science, and philosophy.)
20:52:36 <coppro> ais523: you know about the English postgame in 6, right?
20:52:49 <zzo38> (Science isn't perfect, but it it s the best we have. Mathematics is perfect, though.)
20:53:20 <coppro> ais523: The post-game for 6 got cut significantly in the English version, down to a single area from I think 4 or 5. The reason is hilarious: with the English text, the game wouldn't fit on the cartridge
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20:53:42 <Nihilumbra> but not because nihil means nothing and umbra is a shadow an absence of something
20:53:43 <zzo38> I consider myself as panendeist
20:54:10 <oren> I prefer to call myself a pragmatist
20:54:57 <coppro> ais523: I should check in on the BN1 speedrunners
20:54:57 <mroman_> I just read that as Panendienst.
20:55:11 <coppro> they had made some nontrivial progress in manipulating the GMD RNG
20:55:12 <zzo38> mroman_: Which means what?
20:55:33 <coppro> though I think they'll never get it to the level of art that is Golden Sun
20:55:39 <oren> I'll worship a god if there's a immediately visible benefit (financial, social, etc...)
20:55:50 <mroman_> It's a service for when you have car troubles.
20:55:55 <int-e> Pannendienst, if that's supposed to be german?
20:56:27 <Nihilumbra> if god exists he's/it/she is probably to busy to give a hoot about earth
20:56:49 <Nihilumbra> seeing as its a very small percentage of the observable universw
20:57:11 <coppro> I can't find a link at the moment, but GS plans out every single "random" encounter for the entire run.
20:57:19 <oren> Nihilumbra: but intervention froma god isn't the only effect of worship.
20:57:43 <int-e> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=1857 seems relevant
20:58:03 <zzo38> I am not a traditional theist or deist though, therefore I don't take those arguments. Yes, the Earth is a very small and very minor part of the universe, but it is still something.
20:58:10 <oren> there are immediately obvious effects as to who likes you, who doesn't
20:58:15 <mroman_> it's all part of a much bigger picture
20:58:49 * int-e sidles off to find his Dogma DVD...
20:58:49 <zzo38> The biggest Greed is wanting an afterlife. (Well, not quite: the actual biggest greed is wanting an afterlife and taking everything with you)
20:59:35 <Nihilumbra> the biggest greed is an afterlife with even more stuff than you would perpetually need
20:59:53 <mroman_> why would you even want an afterlife
21:00:04 <mroman_> living forever has got to be boring
21:00:30 <Nihilumbra> mroman_: I would like to meet my ancestors
21:01:02 <mroman_> I get that people want to see their dead relatives again.
21:01:11 <boily> I would like to have a nice afterlife without alcohol, so my skin remains smooth.
21:01:57 <zzo38> People, because they do not understand, call GOD as a "Person" or something like that, or various other things which aren't so sensible.
21:02:39 <zzo38> The proper words to describe GOD don't exist (and we can't easily make it to exist since nobody would know what it is), therefore we have to use wrong words.
21:02:44 <zzo38> There is no other choice.
21:02:54 <boily> mroman_: what was your here again?
21:03:23 <mroman_> Winterthur, Switzerland, Europe, Earth, Solar System, MilkyWay, Universe No. 9
21:03:31 <Nihilumbra> god if in correct in it not being a douche canoe would appear to you in the shape you are most comfortable with
21:03:47 <zzo38> Of course, I don't know either. I only approximate; all of religious/theology/etc are only being approximate.
21:04:19 <mroman_> God just needed 9 tries to get it right.
21:04:34 <mroman_> the other ones are probably weird.
21:05:04 <mroman_> assuming God created the universe, and not just earth
21:05:14 <mroman_> I'm not sure what the bible *exactly* says about that.
21:05:46 <fizzie> Well, also the "heavens".
21:05:58 <zzo38> I don't believe that kind of old mythology anyways
21:06:07 <Nihilumbra> lets just assume his mother did the universe thing
21:06:13 <zzo38> "Created" isn't even the right word, but there aren't any better words!
21:06:19 <Nihilumbra> and god created three dimensions of existence
21:06:34 <fizzie> "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", starts the NIV translation.
21:06:56 <mroman_> God must have forseen that some people eventually stop believing in him
21:07:04 <mroman_> why would he create humans capable of not believing in him?
21:07:06 <zzo38> Universe is made out of mathematics. There may be an infinte number of possible universes.
21:07:17 <mroman_> Why didn't he just create humans in a way so that they ultimatively always will obey him?
21:07:25 <zzo38> People misunderstand the nature of God
21:07:28 <fizzie> mroman_: I guess that might've been boring?
21:07:35 <mroman_> Also why did he even bother to create humans?
21:07:56 <zzo38> (I don't understand either, but I believe in approximations which I believe to be better approximations than others do)
21:07:56 <mroman_> That's actually a much better question :)
21:08:12 <Nihilumbra> I was told that god created humans with free will but told them what to do until that whole apple crisis
21:08:15 <mroman_> Why *did* he create earth and life?
21:08:22 <zzo38> Therefore your questions are wrong, in my opinion.
21:08:36 <fizzie> Some people write brainfuck, others create worlds and life.
21:08:43 <zzo38> (That doesn't mean it isn't worth asking; how do you know it is wrong unless you ask?)
21:09:06 <mroman_> Maybe we are just an esoteric world among many other more reasonable worlds
21:09:25 <mroman_> Maybe we are the brainfuck world of all worlds
21:09:33 <b_jonas> No look. God created nothing, but that was a brilliant move of his, because then from that the empty set sprang onto existence on the zeroth day, then the set containing the empty set sprang into existance on the first day, etc, and eventually all sets and all of mathematics and physics come into existance some day. "day" isn't to be taken literally.
21:09:48 <boily> mroman_: I am of the impression that it's currently the other way around. Almost all other universes are brainfuckiest than ours.
21:09:57 <boily> Nihilumbra: that'd be interesting!
21:10:46 <zzo38> b_jonas: In my opinion that seem closer than how the Bible and other stuff says, but still very wrong.
21:11:09 <zzo38> Time is a function of the universe, but actually spacetime is, not time and space.
21:11:13 <Nihilumbra> the bible is a very old book that has been mistranslated multiple tines
21:11:42 <zzo38> That's true, it is an old book.
21:11:49 <int-e> right now, she's unconscious in a skee ball player's body in some hospital...
21:14:25 <zzo38> I don't believe in the personal kind of God.
21:14:51 <zzo38> My own kind of believe it is very confusing and unusual compared to others
21:15:07 <zzo38> Someone told me to make up the Church of Four Concentric Circles
21:16:35 <b_jonas> Church of Four Concentric Circles? what's that? and how's that ever going to be projective invariant?
21:17:06 <zzo38> The circles are just a diagram.
21:20:43 <zzo38> The proper diagram would be impossible to draw, therefore I have to use the one that I made like this instead.
21:25:32 <olsner> I do like the idea of a religion based on a diagram that's impossible to draw
21:25:36 <zzo38> (I was also once told that I should earn the Ig Nobel prize for proving it impossible to use complex numbers in accounting.)
21:25:56 <zzo38> (However, I forget the proof.)
21:26:10 <zzo38> olsner: O, you do? OK, that's good then
21:30:02 <zzo38> Such diagram, also, is just the metaphor.
21:30:34 <mroman_> which is going to be obsoleted by Gulf
21:31:00 <mroman_> but I'm most strongly against religion because of it's risk for violence.
21:31:39 <mroman_> It's so hot here that the slightest physical activity makes you sweat like a pig :(
21:31:51 <mroman_> 29 degrees room temperature
21:32:16 <mroman_> at least the hail storm will bring some cold
21:32:32 <mroman_> (where cold probably means it's going to cool down to 25 degrees room temperature)
21:35:32 <zzo38> It does have risk of violence, but so do other things. It is possible to do good things and bad things with various stuff, too.
21:37:41 <olsner> I like to think that faith and religion are separate, faith (= you believe whatever you want) is fine and dandy, but when you organize it into a religion it starts to get dangerous
21:38:32 <olsner> I also like to take a bath
21:38:53 <lambdabot> CYUL 072100Z 14012KT 30SM FEW150 OVC250 22/06 A2998 RMK AC2CS6 SLP151 DENSITY ALT 800FT
21:41:22 <zzo38> olsner: Ah, OK, yes some people like to make this distinction.
21:42:30 <b_jonas> isn't there actually a three-way distinction rather than two-way?
21:43:09 <b_jonas> three-way between, I think, beliefs, religion, and church.
21:43:23 <zzo38> Yes, there is that distinction too
21:44:09 <b_jonas> I could be getting this wrong though
21:44:13 <b_jonas> I don't think too much about it
21:48:00 <coppro> b_jonas: I think you could eliminate the church/religion distinction if you wanted
21:48:10 <coppro> a church is really just a sect
21:48:19 <coppro> and you can view sects as different but similar religions
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21:57:52 <lambdabot> LOWI 072150Z AUTO 26014KT 220V290 9999 -TSRA //////CB FEW038 BKN046 19/14 Q1023
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22:35:15 <oerjan> boily: i believe Dulnes is part of the collective nick-unstable entity currently mostly known as Nihilumbra (and whatever you do, don't assume they're the same person hth)
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22:36:24 <oerjan> (not in public, anyway)
22:36:58 <HackEgo> 1223) <Dulnes> Anyways i actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based
22:37:58 <oerjan> boily: i'm also implying e may not get that lambdabot message
22:39:24 <oerjan> shachaf: was that necessary
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22:42:48 <oerjan> <int-e> Content-Type: application/binary <-- not helpful <-- the hg browser at some point stopped serving files properly for security reasons.
22:43:05 <oerjan> i.e. that link used to work when it was added.
22:43:52 <oerjan> shachaf: not if you don't care about social consequences
22:44:39 <shachaf> should i make fun of them obliquely while they're not in the channel, like the rest of you, rather than directly?
22:44:50 <shachaf> or should i harass them in /msg, like they do?
22:46:52 <shachaf> not lately, unless they happen to be doing it from one of the nicks i /ignored
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22:50:03 <b_jonas> stupid webpage uses css rules to crop some of the page unreadable
22:50:16 <b_jonas> I can fix it on client side, but why do I have to?
22:54:28 <b_jonas> whoa, webpage has en_UK and en_US localization (they might be identical though)
22:55:44 <oerjan> one thing i hate is pages with wide margins designed such that i see _less_ of the text when zooming in, because the margins grow instead of the text...
22:56:35 <oerjan> (well the text font grows, but not the textbox)
22:56:39 <zzo38> I think they should just use the default margins, and then the width adjusts with the width of the window.
22:57:17 <b_jonas> yes, they should just use default for most things
22:57:29 <oerjan> zzo38: well of course there are plenty of sites that do it the reasonable way, i'm talking about broken sites
22:58:20 <zzo38> For everything, as far as I am concerned, you should use the client's default unless you have a good reason not to (such as: if you need different colors of text, set both the foreground and background colors; otherwise don't set any colors)
22:58:55 <oerjan> also there's this stupid newspaper comic page that uses my zoom level to decide that i need to be redirected to their mobile site - so to visit it, i to first turn off my zoom and then rezoom after the page has loaded.
23:01:05 <b_jonas> "The weight limit does not apply to electric wheelchairs, musical instruments or animals in the cargo hold." -- oh! do they allow elephants? dragons?
23:01:05 <oerjan> i wish they'd somehow managed to made the web standards such that sites _couldn't_ make assumptions about the client devices
23:01:19 <b_jonas> oh right, they have a size limit too
23:01:57 <b_jonas> so a child elephant might fit, but a dragon definitely not
23:02:40 <oerjan> if you've got a dragon, why are you taking a plane tmns
23:03:11 <b_jonas> oerjan: flying might take too much time or energy otherwise. a plane is faster.
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23:03:18 <b_jonas> at least for long distances.
23:03:27 <b_jonas> but yeah, you probably don't need it if you have a dragon
23:03:35 <b_jonas> if it's not a tame dragon, but a subdued one
23:03:45 <b_jonas> then maybe you can't direct the dragon to fly
23:03:59 <boily> how many elephants in a dragon?
23:03:59 <zzo38> Gopher menus work better it doesn't need to make any assumptions about the client other than it can display the menu and text files; the client decides what way need to display work best for the device.
23:04:14 <boily> how many gophers in an elephant?
23:05:53 <boily> I think a gopher's density is approximatively the same enough to that of an elephant to be irrelevant.
23:06:08 <b_jonas> boily: in size, a dragon (gigantic) is two size categories over an elephant (large), so dragon is 4 times as large in linear size, 64 times as large in volume, but that's a very inaccurate approximation
23:06:34 <b_jonas> in weight, the difference is only like a factor of 2
23:08:22 <boily> I'd've guessed the elephant-to-dragon ratio to be higher, but what do I know, I've never seen neither of them.
23:08:37 <b_jonas> nethack weights are unrealistic
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23:08:58 <b_jonas> they're more about how difficult the item is to carry than about how much it weighs
23:09:22 <b_jonas> and dragons are absolutely impossible to carry, so it doesn't matter much how much they weigh
23:09:34 <b_jonas> it does have a little significance, but rarely comes up
23:09:56 <oerjan> boily: is it a pretzing issue?
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23:19:35 <boily> it was a sudden urge. also bought a milk carton for my cereals.
23:19:42 <shachaf> boily: are you sure you don't need some delicious rice
23:19:57 <boily> oerjan: it was only a light mapole.
23:20:17 <oerjan> is that similar to a lightsabre?
23:20:22 <boily> shachaf: ha ha ^^ sorry, no. I already packed tonight's leftovers for tomorrow.
23:21:16 <boily> oerjan: think of a mapole as a prototypesaber hth
23:21:33 <boily> shachaf: just how much did you make?
23:22:11 <shachaf> boily: maybe three or four times as much as necessary
23:24:16 <boily> oerjan: what'd'you have for supper/breakfast/whatever?
23:25:33 <oerjan> ham salad (not made by me)
23:26:02 <boily> quinthellopia. souvlakis, gyros, tzatziki, fternooners and other Greek classics?
23:26:13 <quintopia> is ham salad like chicken salad s/chicken/ham/ or is it like regular salad with ham on?
23:26:39 <quintopia> i love souvlaki, but no. commodity chain greek. salad and chicken and pasta salad.
23:26:51 <oerjan> quintopia: the former, i think? what's the difference anyway...
23:26:58 <shachaf> oerjan: what sorts of things do you make
23:27:06 <quintopia> oerjan: mainly that the latter has lettuce
23:27:24 <oerjan> shachaf: sliced bread and pizza
23:27:29 <shachaf> what's with salad and lettuce?
23:27:39 <shachaf> apparently some people think that a salad needs to have lettuce
23:27:53 <oerjan> quintopia: oh. the latter, then. it's a bit confusing because no:salat means _both_ salad and lettuce.
23:27:55 <shachaf> in many cases and many salads, lettuce is not a big improvement
23:28:10 <boily> lettuce is depressing. especially iceberg. bleh.
23:28:13 <b_jonas> nah, they specifically says “live animals (dogs and cats only)” in the rules
23:28:13 <quintopia> shachaf: regular salad has leafy greens. if it has no leafy greens, it is not regular
23:28:39 <boily> `quote topologically
23:28:39 <HackEgo> 396) <oklofok> god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself \ 1135) <boily> topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals.
23:28:52 <shachaf> I had regular salad without lettuce today.
23:28:57 <boily> b_jonas: re quote 1135: elephants can be included hth
23:29:10 <boily> quintopia: what's your stance about spinach?
23:29:11 <quintopia> non-regular salads include: potato salad, cole slaw, chicken salad, tuna salad, and (the anglo-american version of) ham salad
23:29:27 <b_jonas> quintopia: non-regular in what sense?
23:29:43 <boily> quintopia: you should try making palak paneer. it's easy and delicious.
23:29:44 <quintopia> (unless it is shredded and boiled. then yecch. fresh only plox.)
23:29:56 <tswett> Around here, the word "salad" by itself pretty much always means a salad with lettuce or spinach, but there are also phrases such as "egg salad", "pasta salad", "tuna salad", "Jello salad", and so forth referring to things without either.
23:29:58 <oerjan> quintopia: the same place also has chicken salad, which also has lettuce hth
23:30:05 <boily> quintopia: boiled is bad. blanched good.
23:30:13 <shachaf> What about a salad with, say, tomatoes and cucumbers and onions and mint and that sort of thing?
23:30:17 <shachaf> Is that regular? No lettuce.
23:30:26 <quintopia> egg salad and pasta salad are alsxo good examples of non-regular salad
23:30:45 <quintopia> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_salad
23:30:50 * oerjan suddenly starts thinking the word "salad" looks fake
23:30:54 <tswett> I think I'm going to refer to everything as a type of "salad" from now on.
23:31:04 <tswett> Now I'm suddenly thinking the word "salad" looks Arabic.
23:31:17 <boily> al-salād or something?
23:31:25 <pikhq> Though it's pretty Latin.
23:31:38 <shachaf> you might be thinking of "salat" hth
23:31:42 <b_jonas> for cabin (not cargo hold) transfer, “Up to three small puppies or very small kittens may be booked as one animal and must be transported in the same container in the cabin.”
23:31:52 <b_jonas> those aren't even topologically equivalent
23:32:10 <tswett> Chili is "bean salad". Cookies are "chocolate salad". Pizza is "pepperoni salad".
23:32:13 <quintopia> the container is topologically equivalent to the container that would carry one animal
23:32:44 <tswett> I'm not sure the topology of a physical object is really well-defined.
23:32:44 <quintopia> tswett: no. just no. salad must contain a variety of ingredients (at least one a vegetable) tossed together in a bowl
23:32:59 <tswett> quintopia: Jello salad doesn't contain any vegetables.
23:33:04 <boily> I like vegetarian chili. beans, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers, tofu, olives...
23:33:14 <boily> tswett: itym aspic hth.
23:33:19 <shachaf> Bell peppers are the scow of vegetables.
23:33:24 <quintopia> tswett: true. s/vegetable/fresh plant matter/
23:33:42 <tswett> Apparently it's "a wide-beamed sailing dinghy".
23:33:46 <shachaf> "the scow of X" usually means something like the worst specimen of X.
23:33:51 <boily> shachaf: peppers of all varieties and cultivars are the tits. you can do everything with them!
23:34:04 <pikhq> I advise against using them on tits.
23:34:08 <oerjan> <quintopia> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_salad <-- wtf is that
23:34:18 <tswett> I like red peppers. I don't understand the purpose of green peppers.
23:34:23 <quintopia> oerjan: what comes to mind first when you say ham salad
23:34:42 <boily> quintopia: you don't like tofu and olives?
23:35:22 <quintopia> oerjan: "mayonnaise-bound meat salads"
23:35:25 <pikhq> tswett: A green bell pepper, though not at all spicy, still has quite a distinct flavor.
23:36:29 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_cream ?
23:36:33 <boily> tswett: green peppers are cheaper than other colours in groceries here. that's one of their purposes.
23:36:48 <boily> (also, to make proper all dressed pizza, you need the green ones.)
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23:37:08 <pikhq> It is quite reasonable to use in and of itself, though obviously no substitute for other varieties.
23:37:09 <quintopia> boily: you need the full stoplight for a proper all-dressed pizza
23:37:12 <shachaf> Speaking of emulsions, I made mayonnaise the other day.
23:37:49 <oerjan> <shachaf> Bell peppers are the scow of vegetables. <-- blasphemy!
23:38:17 <shachaf> Really, there are many foods that I dislike to lesser or greater extents.
23:38:25 <shachaf> But bell peppers are not negotiable. They ruin everything.
23:38:49 <shachaf> They have a terrible taste, their texture uncooked makes me want to vomit, their texture cooked is just disgusting.
23:38:53 <shachaf> There's nothing good about them.
23:39:10 <shachaf> They can ruin any dish. Even if you take them out, their flavor sticks around to ruin it.
23:39:11 <boily> GO TEAM BELL PEPPERS! *pom poms*
23:39:24 <quintopia> one good thing about them is that if we have a pizza party and shachaf attends, they can make it so there is more pizza for the rest of us
23:39:43 <pikhq> I wonder if this is something like cilantro or something.
23:40:00 <shachaf> quintopia: Usually people do that by putting animals on the pizza.
23:40:05 <boily> pikhq: sounds like it. people I know who dislike bell peppers really dislike them.
23:40:06 <quintopia> i found out tonight my sister thinks basil ruins pasta salad
23:40:19 <quintopia> shachaf: oh okay. that'd work too.
23:40:23 <tswett> Hmmmm, I want a place to paste a table.
23:40:27 <tswett> (inb4 "in the dining room")
23:40:45 <quintopia> but you might get paste all over the china cabinet
23:40:52 <quintopia> i recommend pasting in the garage or shop
23:40:59 <quintopia> then carrying the table back to the dining room
23:41:45 <oerjan> <quintopia> oerjan: what comes to mind first when you say ham salad <-- i suppose my brain has different slots for "salad as whole meal" and "salad as condiment". in any case, not that thing on wikipedia's picture. if it were a condiment salad, i'd expect still visible strips of ham in it.
23:41:46 <quintopia> b_jonas: i know. basil is wonderful.
23:42:11 <quintopia> oerjan: it can be made that way. there is some variety.
23:42:41 <quintopia> as long as they are small enough to be chewy instead of ...stringy?
23:43:28 <quintopia> so who wants to play some don't starve together?
23:43:55 <shachaf> I played it and then I died.
23:44:05 <shachaf> I think I was eaten by a grue.
23:44:34 <shachaf> I don't know, because I stopped playing the game a few seconds before being eaten.
23:44:55 <shachaf> In fact I still have a save file where it's dark and the screen has jagged lined around the edges and I'm about to die.
23:44:59 <shachaf> But at least I didn't starve.
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23:45:12 <quintopia> http://dont-starve-game.wikia.com/wiki/Charlie
23:45:54 <tswett> Ooh, I remember Don't Starve.
23:46:00 <tswett> I wonder if I still have a way to access it.
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