00:01:20 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
00:01:37 <tswett> Ah yes, hairy toe help.
00:02:19 <shachaf> i suppose h stands for hewlett and not higgledy
00:02:32 <tswett> I wonder what HackEgo knows about me.
00:02:37 <HackEgo> tswett is livin' it up with the penguins
00:03:12 <tswett> Hey hppavilion1, want me to ask my neural net to come up with a random quote from you?
00:03:20 <hppavilion1> `learn hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed
00:03:25 <HackEgo> Learned 'hppavilion1': hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed
00:03:43 <HackEgo> hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed
00:04:31 <FireFly> reading scrollback on a phone is a bit annoying
00:04:33 <tswett> All right, here's your randomly generated quote.
00:04:34 <tswett> 20:05:57: <hppavilion1> lambdabot hackenv/[Nines use length a channel definition transport for the bit really sufficient include branching mode, 10 particular thing though....
00:04:35 <shachaf> `` sed -i -e 's/\w\+ \w\+ //' -e 's/leave them/be left/' wisdom/hppavilion1
00:05:05 <FireFly> Although on that note I should get my phone keyboard after midsummer
00:05:20 <HackEgo> higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
00:05:43 <shachaf> FireFly: Are you coming visit for some poutine and Magic: The Gathering cards?
00:06:12 <FireFly> You're in SF or something, aren't you?
00:06:28 <lambdabot> KOAK 172353Z 29014KT 10SM FEW180 18/10 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP128 T01780100 10206 20172 58004
00:06:39 <shachaf> Maybe pikhq is coming here too?
00:07:02 <FireFly> I don't think I'll visit anytime soon, but if I do I wouldn't mind poutine and Magic
00:07:31 <FireFly> Although I haven't played a lot of MtG and would be really terrible
00:08:16 <FireFly> I've never had poutine. How is it?
00:09:00 <pikhq> It seems very likely I'll be in SF.
00:09:23 <pikhq> I technically don't have the job offer yet, but I should tomorrow.
00:09:35 <shachaf> i,i because in all of the whole human race, mrs. lovett, there are two kinds of men and only two: there's the one staying poutine his proper place, and the one with his foot in the other one's face
00:09:52 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed).
00:09:58 <pikhq> shachaf: Okay, I'll actually be in MTV or thereabouts.
00:10:05 <shachaf> A lot of people I know are going to work in the SF office these days.
00:10:12 <shachaf> Surprising given that it's such a small office.
00:10:14 <pikhq> Apparently some Google employees commute from SF to MTV, but... fuck that.
00:10:32 <shachaf> pikhq: Well, you do get a fancy gentrification bus.
00:10:46 <FireFly> I do wonder what it's like to live in SF
00:10:58 <FireFly> with this... tech company culture
00:10:59 <shachaf> Something about flour in your hair, I think.
00:11:12 <pikhq> I'd prefer not to spend an hour on a bus that's powered by the tears of victims of a failure to build houses.
00:11:29 <ais523> pikhq: that seems like a very inefficient power source
00:11:45 <pikhq> Yes, but in copious supply in SF.
00:12:15 <shachaf> Commuting from SF to MTV isn't uncommon, and not just for Google employees.
00:12:23 <shachaf> It's a pretty backwards situation.
00:12:39 <FireFly> Is one hour a long commute for you?
00:13:18 <FireFly> I commuted one hour to university for a few years, but now I almost live on-campus
00:14:09 <FireFly> I don't think an hour was too bad, although I wouln't want to commute for longer than that.
00:14:10 <pikhq> It's decently long and I hate commute times.
00:14:49 <shachaf> I commute ~6 minutes in the morning, or less if I walk quickly.
00:18:03 <zzo38> What I would want though is the Magic: the Puzzling printed out many ones.
00:20:08 <zzo38> Make up some if you know what to make up
00:24:21 <shachaf> `` echo -n 'FireFly: '; '?' sleep
00:24:22 <HackEgo> FireFly: Sleep is for the weak.
00:26:44 <FireFly> You should bin/'ify that as maybe `@
00:27:06 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; }
00:27:25 <HackEgo> FireFly: Sleep is for the weak.
00:27:37 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan elliott Gregor shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia
00:28:12 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed bin/@ | grep summary:
00:28:13 <HackEgo> summary: <oerjan> revert \ summary: <oerjan> sed -i \'2s!s/!s/no\\+dl/nooodl/;s/!\' bin/? \ summary: <elliott> mv ibin/"@" bin \ summary: <Gregor> mkdir ibin; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep \'\\. lib/interp\' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf \'#!/bin/sh\\nCMD=`cut -d\' \' -f1 "$1"`\\nARG=`cut -d\' \' -f2- "$2"`\\nexec ibin
00:50:01 <HackEgo> thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano.
00:50:06 <HackEgo> narutoverse/narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus.
00:50:12 <HackEgo> wisdom:/wisdom: taking the ovenware out of the oven before turning it on
00:50:56 <HackEgo> ci/The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
00:51:06 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle.
00:51:13 <ais523> if Taneb did not exist, we would have to invent him?
00:51:57 <shachaf> `` rgrep -il invented wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##' | xargs
00:51:59 <HackEgo> cpressey twoducks wolfram stephen wolfram chu space go automatic squirrel feeder persistence real mroman weetoflake unicode ci torus d-module rtf sgeo this sentence
00:52:03 <shachaf> `` rgrep -il invented wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##'
00:52:07 <HackEgo> cpressey \ twoducks \ wolfram \ stephen wolfram \ chu space \ go \ automatic squirrel feeder \ persistence \ real \ mroman \ weetoflake \ unicode \ ci \ torus \ d-module \ rtf \ sgeo \ this sentence
00:52:24 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994.
00:52:48 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/a /an overt /' wisdom/real
00:54:13 <tswett> Gah, this neural net keeps producing output consisting chiefly of dozens and dozens of lines of mroman interacting with bots.
00:54:19 <HackEgo> phantom_______hoover/It doesn't get any better than this.
00:54:25 <HackEgo> poland/Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes.
00:54:35 <HackEgo> context/context is a word with many meanings, depending on where it is used.
00:54:45 <HackEgo> metaplace/Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER
00:56:20 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence.
00:56:33 <ais523> `? automatic squirrel feeder
00:56:34 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them.
00:58:48 <HackEgo> Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments.
00:59:54 <shachaf> `le/rn el camino real/There is no royal road to analytic geometry.
01:01:52 <HackEgo> metaplace/Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER
01:01:56 <HackEgo> ingesorgeco/Ingesorgeco is when a German is worrying that their money might get cut short.
01:02:07 <HackEgo> smileyiese/smileyieses is the plural of smiley.
01:02:35 <HackEgo> phantom__hoover/Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
01:02:38 <HackEgo> nortti/nortti boy. very nortti boy.
01:02:43 <HackEgo> radiohead/radiohead is "rock music"
01:02:50 <shachaf> I feel like I might be spamming the channel a bit too much.
01:03:27 <zzo38> You can also look on the webpage for the list of the file too, or you can run `wisdom in private messages
01:03:51 <HackEgo> Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives.
01:03:59 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/brick
01:04:56 <tswett> `learn sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published by Taneb in 1932, based on Taneb's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
01:04:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'sex': sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published by Taneb in 1932, based on Taneb's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
01:05:19 <oren\n> I have basically a choice between a job I can walk to at a startup, and I job I have to take the bus to, at a big successful company.
01:05:55 <ais523> oren\n: I take it you're currently looking for jobs?
01:06:04 <ais523> tswett: I used to use them pretty much every day
01:06:10 <HackEgo> ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
01:06:32 <ais523> then I got a job, meaning that my discount on the buses no longer applied, and trains became more economical instea
01:06:46 <ais523> also sometimes I walk to work, it only takes about 80 minutes
01:07:02 <shachaf> did you fight your snake yet?
01:07:13 <shachaf> did you publish your thesis?
01:07:39 <coppro> who's fighting snakes?
01:07:42 <ais523> shachaf: thesis is still doing corrections
01:07:51 <tswett> Here's my resume: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GWN9AyxAkcRzZWU040T0lLZUU/view?usp=sharing
01:07:54 <ais523> coppro: every Basilisk programmer (I think I remembered the name of the language right?)
01:08:00 <ais523> tswett: I would except I can't afford to
01:08:22 <shachaf> tswett: have you considered moving to silly valley hth
01:08:40 <tswett> Is the minimum wage in Britain higher than £8.15 an hour?
01:08:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?basilisk: not found
01:09:11 <HackEgo> You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!
01:09:23 <ais523> was expecting an invalid command
01:09:28 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import os \ import sys \ import json \ import urllib2 \ \ proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({'http': os.environ['http_proxy']}) \ opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_handler) \ urllib2.install_opener(opener) \ \ def lose(): \ print 'You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!' \ sys.exit() \ \ def eels(): \
01:10:01 <HackEgo> def eels(): \ print 'My hovercraft is full of eels.' \ sys.exit() \ \ if len(sys.argv) > 2: \ args = sys.argv[1:] \ elif len(sys.argv) == 2: \ args = sys.argv[1].split() \ else: \ lose() \ \ if len(args) == 2: \ from_lang = args[0] \ to_lang = 'en' \ word = args[1] \ elif len(args) == 3: \ from_lang = args[0] \
01:11:01 <ais523> tswett: also Wikipedia says it was £9.72 in 2013
01:11:04 <ais523> not sure if it's raised since
01:11:38 <ais523> £6.50 on a different page which is presumably more accurate
01:12:11 <shachaf> But it'll be raised to £6.70 this year.
01:12:22 <oren\n> dude your resume looks way better than mine. you should move to toronto, plenty of jobs here
01:13:07 <oren\n> Maybe I oughtn't have made my resume using Latex
01:16:48 <oren\n> http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03603668214762132544
01:17:09 <oren\n> see? generic as hell, one font, black and white
01:20:47 <oren\n> yeah I've been to a couple of interviews so far, and essentially companies in Toronto fall into the two groups I described
01:22:32 <oren\n> I could theoretically walk instead of take the bus, but only during seasons where I can stand the heat
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01:23:42 <oren\n> tswett: what program did you use to make that resume?
01:32:54 <shachaf> oren\n: Microsoft® Word 2013 hth
01:36:07 <oren\n> I don't have that option right now
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01:44:33 <tswett> Microsoft Word indeed.
01:44:55 <tswett> HTML also seems pretty decent for making nice-looking documents.
01:45:12 <tswett> LaTeX is all right too, but LaTeX makes it really difficult to do certain things.
01:45:19 <tswett> (And really easy to do certain other things.)
01:45:59 <tswett> oren\n: how would you feel about some feedback?
01:46:04 <ais523> HTML doesn't contain that many rendering hints
01:46:26 <tswett> ais523: rendering hints?
01:47:03 <ais523> tswett: like, HTML intentionally doesn't give full control over layout; nor does LaTeX really except that that always renders the same way
01:47:11 <ais523> whereas HTML changes to the form factor of the device that's viewing it
01:47:21 <ais523> things like font metrics aren't specified
01:47:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43216&oldid=43200 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* R */
01:47:32 <ais523> so you can't tell whether an HTML document is nice-looking or not without knowing what will render it
01:47:54 <tswett> But you can use a program to render HTML to PDF.
01:48:03 <ais523> that Esowiki201529A person is trouble, btw (although that edit is harmless)
01:49:52 <oren\n> tswett: that would be great?
01:50:40 <tswett> oren\n: would you say that this resume is organized in order from most important stuff to least important stuff?
01:51:08 <oren\n> yeah pretty much how I did it
01:51:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43217&oldid=43216 * Esowiki201529A * (-1) /* R */
01:54:21 <tswett> Saying "I am an excellent software developer" at the beginning sounds a little strange to me. What's so excellent about you?
01:55:00 <fowl> Did someone put their resume on esolangs wiku
01:56:45 <ais523> fowl: just in the channel
01:56:50 <tswett> If you said something like "I can learn new languages extremely quickly" or "I am extremely good at getting up to speed with existing code" or "I am extremely skilled with database query optimization" or something, that tells me something meaningful about you.
01:57:14 <ais523> `le/rn resume/a resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment
01:57:29 <oren\n> I think the 'excellent' was originally supposed to appy to the software
01:57:49 <tswett> "I am a developer of excellent software"?
01:57:49 <ais523> the pun only works because nobody bothers to type the accent, but…
01:58:00 <ais523> still incredibly generic, though
01:58:08 <oren\n> Yeah maybe that would work better
02:00:58 <oren\n> ais523: How did you type …
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02:02:00 <ais523> specifically, compose . .
02:02:05 <ais523> (I have caps lock bound to compose)
02:02:16 <ais523> I think you're the first person to ask even though I've been doing it for years?
02:03:09 <tswett> I've heard that the best length for a resume (for a non-academic position at the junior level) is one page.
02:03:23 <ais523> tswett: I believe it depends on country
02:03:30 <ais523> but it's normally considered to be 1 in the US and 2 in Europe
02:03:30 <tswett> Yeah, it probably does.
02:03:34 <ais523> not 100% sure on that though
02:04:13 <shachaf> "Resume the Résumé" is a famous song by Cole Porter.
02:04:33 <shachaf> ais523: Do you think le/rn should use two slashes like mk for consistency?
02:04:43 <shachaf> (Or for any other reason.)
02:05:04 <tswett> oren\n: I notice that the experience section is in forward chronological order; I usually see those in reverse chronological order.
02:05:24 <tswett> Do you want people to read about your earliest experience first, or your latest experience?
02:05:31 <ais523> shachaf: one is enough I think
02:05:42 <shachaf> The trouble is that it won't let you make entries with / in them.
02:05:50 <shachaf> Which can exist using subdirectories.
02:07:06 <tswett> Is that the cat hanji?
02:07:45 <oren\n> CSV. cat separated values
02:08:10 <tswett> First I was going to say "neko", then I realized that the character is probably used in Chinese too.
02:08:41 <tswett> The cat hanzi is notable chiefly for its presence in this language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Combienti%C3%A8m
02:08:57 <tswett> oren\n: I'd suggest trying to make the experience section more concise.
02:11:54 <oren\n> hmm... yeah. I could merge the things into years. having a separate section for each season of each year might be excessive
02:12:04 <tswett> Though I couldn't really suggest any specific thing to cut.
02:12:45 <tswett> Now, is the "2-day Game Jam" actually part of your education?
02:13:20 <oren\n> it was sort of an extracurricular.
02:13:34 <tswett> In any case, reading that makes me wonder what it means that your team won. Does that mean you were judged the best team out of all entrants? How many entrants were there?
02:14:47 <tswett> What was your GPA in university?
02:16:46 <oren\n> tswett: There were somthing like 12 teams. My GPA was not yeat fully decided when I amde this resume.
02:16:56 * oren\n is going to check what it is
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02:18:53 <tswett> That sounds pretty good; assuming it is, you should probably put it on there.
02:21:40 <oren\n> I think if I got all A's it would be 4, and if I got all B's it would be 3.
02:22:12 <oren\n> yeah. and all C's get you 2 and all D's get you 1
02:22:57 <oren\n> So effectivley I got an everage of B+?
02:23:41 <tswett> Now I'm about to say something hypocritical.
02:23:57 <tswett> Seeing your big list of languages and technologies makes me wonder what, exactly, you've done with all those.
02:24:11 <tswett> And that's hypocritical because my resume doesn't explain that either. ^_^
02:24:17 <tswett> "Knowledge and experience with languages including Haskell, Python, C, and SQL"
02:26:41 <tswett> Yeah, I guess what I want to say is that at first glance, the "Experience" section seems a little daunting. But I'm not actually sure what to do about that.
02:26:49 <tswett> Do you know what sorts of positions you'll be applying for?
02:28:36 <oren\n> I've been applying for a variety of different companies in different industries. the only ones I've gotton positive results from (they actually called me on the phone) were a web advertising company, and an AI startup which may or may not suceed
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02:30:01 <oren\n> soo... not really, other than wanting to apply for a job as a "computer programmer" or the synonym de jour
02:31:00 <tswett> Guess I don't really have much more advice I can give.
02:31:51 <tswett> I guess the goal of my resume is to give some idea of what my skill level is and what my skills actually are.
02:32:16 <fowl> My resume has a bunch of lies about me
02:33:00 <tswett> Skills: mathematics, statistics, Haskell, Python, C, SQL, Unix, Linux, C#, ASP.NET MVCq, git, pizza. Skill level: very little professional experience but LOOK AT THIS AMAZING YELLOW BOX
02:33:05 <oren\n> fowl: mine is mostly truth, tempered with my massive overconfidence
02:33:39 <tswett> The cover letter is where I actually explain why I think I'm a good fit for the position.
02:34:13 <oren\n> tbf, it is an amazing yellow box
02:37:20 <oren\n> At least I have a good answer if anyone ever asks me "what's you biggest weakness"... Overconfidence and hubris!
02:37:52 <ais523> I thought I was in #nethack for a moment, that line would fit just fine in there
02:38:04 <tswett> Yeah, I kinda figure. Suppose someone pulls up my resume and glances at it for five seconds. What's the first thing they'll see?
02:38:33 <tswett> I'm hoping they'll take a single glance and see the words "Highest score ever" and think "wait, that sounds pretty cool".
02:38:47 <ais523> tswett: highest score ever at what?
02:39:04 <tswett> The Putnam Mathematical Competition, among students at Grand Valley State University.
02:39:22 <ais523> (again, I remember when the highest ever score at NetHack was scored, I didn't score it but I did give advice; it was almost certainly higher than the total of all NetHack scores before or since)
02:39:27 <oren\n> ais523: it doesn't actually particularly matter! that's the genius of it
02:40:02 <ais523> now I'm hoping nobody ever tries it again
02:40:09 <ais523> because that'll screw up the statistic
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02:42:15 <oren\n> is genial the adjectival form of genius
02:45:07 <oren\n> wait apparently I wrote:
02:45:25 <oren\n> I have written programs in a variety of Languages
02:45:41 <oren\n> why did I capitalize the Languages?!!??
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02:48:21 <tswett> Oh right, I forgot to mention that.
02:48:35 <tswett> "neural networks AI" doesn't sound right to me.
02:49:10 <tswett> "neural network AI" would be a little better, but it still doesn't sound quite right. "Machine learning using neural networks" or something sounds better, imo.
02:49:57 <tswett> "Coordinates" is a bit of humor, I take it?
02:51:07 <tswett> I'll let you decide whether or not that's appropriate here.
02:51:09 <tswett> "Unit testing" under Techniques and Methodologies shouldn't be capitalized unless you're capitalizing all the other words too.
02:51:49 <tswett> Likewise, "Object-Oriented Design" if you're capitalizing everything, "Object-oriented design" if you're not.
02:56:16 <tswett> Might be nice to group the "Languages and Technologies" by what they are. "Programming languages: PHP, Python, Perl, Ruby, C, C++, Java, C#, Visual Basic, Scheme. Special-purpose languages: LaTeX, HTML5, CSS. Software: MySQL, Unity3D, Apache."
02:58:21 <tswett> All right, I'm gonna go to bed.
02:58:57 <HackEgo> apl/APL stands for Algorithmic Programming Language.
02:59:29 <HackEgo> monoids/Monoids are the easy version of categories.
03:01:49 <HackEgo> welcome.bork/welcome.bork Velcume-a tu zee interneshunel hoob fur isutereec prugremmeeng lungooege-a deseegn und depluyment! Fur mure-a inffurmeshun, check oooot oooor veeki: http://isulungs.oorg/veeki/Meeen_Pege-a. (Fur zee oozeer keend ooff isutereeca, try #isutereec oon irc.del.net.)
03:02:27 <oren\n> `le/rn CSV/CSV stands for Cat Separated Values
03:03:31 <oren\n> `le/rn CSV/CSV猫stands猫for猫Cat猫Separated猫Values
03:04:19 <HackEgo> U+1F408 CAT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 88 UTF-16BE: d83ddc08 Decimal: 🐈 \ 🐈 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
03:04:47 <shachaf> Unicode has a CAT codepoint. You should use that one instead.
03:05:08 <oren\n> Well good for you... nicode.
03:05:29 <HackEgo> [U+732B CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B]
03:05:42 <pikhq> Yes, but 猫, CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B means "cat".
03:07:14 <HackEgo> [U+732B CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B]
03:09:16 <shachaf> Is that the unified ideograph for "scow"?
03:09:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rotary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43218&oldid=42747 * 98.225.44.92 * (+17) /* About this specification */
03:11:43 <oren\n> Why could they not have put a rough approximation of the meaning in each ideogram's name?A?A?
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03:13:23 <pikhq> *One* reason is that a Unicode character's name is invariant, and they don't want to commit *that* solidly to a given approximation.
03:13:48 <pikhq> Another is that the specific semantics of a character vary based on both language and context.
03:14:02 <pikhq> Yet another is that not all individual ideograms have meaning by themselves.
03:14:13 <pikhq> Finally, not all individual ideograms have *currently known* meaning.
03:14:26 <pikhq> (and some of them, hilariously, are *known to be meaningless*)
03:14:26 <Deewiant> ais523: There are also a lot of other newer fingerprints Mycology doesn't test, but at the time that statement was probably correct.
03:14:59 <oren\n> for the ones that do, then? I mean they put in the currently thought pronounciation for all those ancient writing characters
03:15:52 <oren\n> CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH CAT 732B
03:16:48 <pikhq> Anyways, they at least have the known information documented in the Unihan db.
03:23:02 <zzo38> What should be a HTTP response code used if authentication has been provided and is valid, but the user that has authenticated does not have permission to perform the current operation?
03:24:29 <pikhq> 401 is for "it would be permissible if you authenticate", 403 is for "you do not have this permission".
03:26:06 <zzo38> Well, it *might* be allowed if you reauthenticate with a different username/password, although the program doesn't know that, nor does the program know how the authentication system works; it only knows which user has authenticated.
03:28:35 <zzo38> Wikipedia says "Unlike a 401 Unauthorized response, authenticating will make no difference." However, it is unknown in my case whether or not authenticating will make a difference; it is only known that valid authentication has already been provided but that the specified user hasn't the correct permissions.
03:29:44 <zzo38> O, the actual "HTTP 403" page says that 403 also means "Authentication was provided, but the authenticated user is not permitted to perform the requested operation."
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04:00:22 <oren\n> Walpurgisnacht is apparently something other than just the strongest witch from Madoka
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04:05:55 <FireFly> Yes, it's a holiday celebrated last april
04:06:11 <FireFly> With bonfires, at least here
04:08:07 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night I guess it's a north-european thing
04:08:22 <FireFly> Or perhaps more germanic, ish
04:09:01 <FireFly> "In the United States, Walpurgisnacht is one of the major holidays celebrated within LaVeyan Satanism and is the anniversary of the founding of the Church of Satan." ...
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04:12:44 <oren\n> The original political organization that became the Death Eaters in Harry Potter was called the Knights of Walpurgis
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04:51:17 <lambdabot> mroman said 17h 7m 22s ago: http://codepad.org/LA8kRBCM
04:51:34 <shachaf> oerjan: what was going on when i asked fizzie what's going on twh
04:53:26 <oerjan> ask me in a few hours when i've got through the logs hth
04:53:51 <shachaf> @ask oerjan what was going on
04:54:28 <shachaf> I assumed you wouldn't talk until you finished reading the logs.
04:54:35 <shachaf> I guess that might not be true.
04:56:03 <oerjan> how would i ever get around to talking then
04:56:30 <oerjan> searching for my own nick is the first thing i do.
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04:59:29 <oerjan> shachaf: often i procrastinate reading the logs by browsing something else hth
05:00:04 <oerjan> also, sometimes i skip them altogether after the nick search step. very tempting today.
05:00:07 <shachaf> i hope you realize that logreading is your duty hth
05:00:32 <shachaf> anyway just explain what's going on with wisdom/yo
05:00:52 <HackEgo> yo mama so fat, insert joke here
05:01:47 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
05:01:52 <HackEgo> yo mama so fat, insert joke here
05:02:04 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
05:02:11 <oerjan> shachaf: wtf are you doing
05:02:11 <HackEgo> cat: blah: No such file or directory
05:03:26 <FireFly> shachaf: I slept on and off, didn't really fall asleep properly I think
05:03:39 <shachaf> oerjan: i might ask HackEgo the same question
05:03:45 <FireFly> Now to figure out what your email is
05:03:52 <oerjan> shachaf: i have told Gregor about the `revert problems in /msg but both he and fizzie have been idle for days.
05:04:09 <shachaf> anyway the point of all this is that we thought revert was working and it wasn't hth
05:04:31 <FireFly> I find it impressive and a bit creepy that Google suggests "shachaf ben-tiki" if I enter "shachaf"
05:04:33 <pikhq> Gregor committed a few minutes ago.
05:05:25 <oren\n> I just scroll up to read what was said earlier
05:06:01 <oerjan> shachaf: _some_ reverts show up in the repository browser, others don't.
05:06:10 <oerjan> it's been that way for a while.
05:06:32 <shachaf> when you say they don't show up you mean they don't get committed at all, right?
05:06:41 <oren\n> it appears irssi saves about 1 day worth of stuff
05:06:50 <oerjan> shachaf: i've had a suspicion that it happens when the revert is of a file creation.
05:07:03 <oerjan> does this fit your examples?
05:07:52 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/overt //' wisdom/real
05:08:19 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
05:08:57 <oerjan> actually what i told Gregor about wasn't this, but that stupid error message, which is probably unrelated because `revert has been fishy for ages.
05:09:08 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
05:09:09 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c |
05:09:09 <myndzi> >\ c.c |\ /| | | |\ c.c /< | >\|/| c.c /<
05:09:46 <shachaf> FireFly: that's because of people like you hth
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05:10:39 <shachaf> FireFly: When I type "FireFly" into Google, it finds the television series, the restaurant, and the music festival.
05:10:58 <shachaf> Nothing about you or the insect.
05:11:12 <oren> what about the javascript debugger?
05:11:19 <oren> wait that's firebug
05:11:31 <FireFly> I've come to understand the TV series is p. popular
05:11:39 <FireFly> It's the most common source of mis-highlights
05:12:36 <oerjan> shachaf: i assume shachaf is a pretty rare name. is it in the bible anywhere?
05:12:50 <shachaf> there's a part that says you're not supposed to eat them
05:13:05 <oerjan> i mean as a human name hth
05:13:14 <FireFly> Good thing it doesn't forbid swatting them
05:13:14 <oerjan> or angel, i think those count too
05:15:54 <oren> really, you can't eat seagulls?
05:16:15 <oren> can you shoot them for eating your lunch?
05:16:33 <oerjan> is it because they're scavengers?
05:17:02 <shachaf> http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0311.htm
05:17:14 <shachaf> leviticus 11:16 it looks like hth
05:17:58 <oerjan> wait you cannot eat camels?
05:18:33 * oerjan thinks the muslims didn't keep that part.
05:18:37 <oren> that is a lot of detestable kinds of birds?
05:19:28 <oren> and the gecko, and the land-crocodile, and the lizard, and the sand-lizard, and the chameleon.
05:20:10 <oren> I don't understand how that could be so prevalent as to need to make a rule about it...
05:20:36 <oren> but I agree that reptiles are probably not good eating
05:20:47 <oerjan> also they were not very good at counting insect legs
05:22:44 <oren> locusts are permissable, probably because they are still a famine food in many areas of africa
05:22:58 <oren> and were back then too
05:23:02 <shachaf> which part is about counting insect legs?
05:23:19 <oren> 21 Yet these may ye eat of all winged swarming things that go upon all fours, which have jointed legs above their feet, wherewith to leap upon the earth;
05:24:08 <oren> I dunno if the hebrew has the number four in it thoug
05:26:21 <oren> does that counts as a loophole allowing to eat all insects which have six legs?
05:26:48 <oren> not that anyone in their right minds would want to
05:27:26 <oerjan> your definition of "right mind" shows a certain cultural bias tdnh
05:27:46 <shachaf> i'm sure that's the topic of someone's thesis or something hth
05:28:19 <shachaf> https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/moses/two-missing-legs/
05:30:18 <HackEgo> croissont supplier/See misspellings of croissant
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05:42:37 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> there's not much point of doing a JAMH in Malbolge because it doesn't look visually different from any other Malbolge program <-- obviously a JAMH should somehow be surprisingly _readable_ hth
05:47:36 <FireFly> I don't think that's possible in Malbolge
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05:56:54 <oerjan> it would certainly take some effort.
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06:28:10 <izabera> just another malbolge hacker?
06:30:56 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle.
06:32:45 <shachaf> oerjan: am i `wisdom-spamming too much twh
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06:37:34 <oerjan> since you said twh, yes
06:38:31 <shachaf> i meant that truth would help hth
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07:48:16 <mroman> oerjan: just like you said: You can use flags to do if conditions.
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07:49:00 <mroman> that is, for additions/subtractions at least
07:49:04 <mroman> but you don't need more for TCness
07:53:59 <mroman> although that doesn't prove that BF with do-while loops is TC
08:20:07 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'off by two'
08:20:22 <HackEgo> An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction.
08:25:19 <mroman> how can I do many $ optional ... in parsec?
08:25:29 <mroman> many can't accept a Parser that accepts an empty String
08:25:35 <mroman> many $ optional comment
08:25:41 <mroman> That's just many $ comment
08:27:47 <mroman> but that still doesn't fix it
08:30:03 <oerjan> does comment itself accept an empty string
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08:32:10 <oerjan> skipSpaces >> many (comment <* skipSpaces)
08:32:14 <mroman> http://codepad.org/EQaIActa
08:32:19 <mroman> It still doesn't accept leading spaces :(
08:32:42 <mroman> now leading spaces causes it to want a comment
08:33:45 <oerjan> ok basic rule on how to do space skipping in a free-form language in parsec: have _one_ skipSpaces at the start of the whole file parse, and one after every token.
08:34:31 <oerjan> (where a token is something like an identifier)
08:35:17 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: parsec is in haskell
08:36:08 <oerjan> parsing some new language, i guess
08:36:17 <oerjan> that's what parsec is usually used for
08:38:01 <Walpurgisnacht> I know that parsec is in haskell I was wondering what he was trying to parse
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08:39:14 <oerjan> i recall mroman is making a new golfing language, don't know if it's that
08:40:18 <oerjan> it has some weird parsing rules, with both infix and postfix operators
08:40:32 <mroman> oerjan: That was just an experiment :)
08:40:39 <mroman> But, yes it had weird parse rules
08:41:41 <mroman> It's supposed to be that way
08:41:57 <mroman> Instead of having parentheses in ((5+1)+3) you use a prefix comma
08:42:16 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: we did some golfing over at http://golf.shinh.org/ last autumn but i think most of us got bored of it again
08:43:59 <oerjan> i tried haskell but henkma is too good for me to beat (except that one time)
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08:45:29 <oerjan> make the shortest program in a language that gives the given outputs for the given inputs
08:45:47 <mroman> http://codepad.org/2fJnZo4I
08:45:51 <mroman> ^- that's what I'm trying to parse
08:46:10 <oerjan> that site is very liberal on the definition of the task: it is allowed to completely ignore the task description and cheat, as long as you match input to output.
08:46:33 <oerjan> (mainly, that's all that is tested.)
08:46:38 <mroman> there's missing a decrement for $len but that doesn't matter for parsing purposes :)
08:46:54 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: was just looking at it
08:48:18 <oerjan> mroman: is this the all-loops-are-run-at-least-once language? it's a bit confusing to use while { } if so...
08:49:35 <oerjan> (in fact int-e also got too good for me to beat after a bit of warmup)
08:52:32 <oerjan> yes, see table at end of page
08:52:48 <oerjan> there's also a table for each language
08:53:05 <oerjan> (that someone has tried)
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08:55:23 <oerjan> i sense some trickiness in the details of that problem: why are the ___ lines unbroken on the top but not the bottom?
08:56:29 <oerjan> because you have to break when there's a | in there
08:56:55 <Walpurgisnacht> Are those the only languages supported for this problem
08:57:29 <oerjan> no, just the only ones anyone has tried to submit
08:57:38 <oerjan> there's a lot of supported languages
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08:59:16 <mroman> there are over 90 languages supported
08:59:38 <mroman> Making it probably the biggest golfing site out there
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09:01:32 <Walpurgisnacht> Does it just make an "endless" string or is it unsolvable
09:02:08 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: just that there's no deadline, also you never get to see the other solutions
09:02:15 <oerjan> (they're not even saved)
09:02:55 <oerjan> other than that, it's the same kind of challenge
09:03:13 <b_jonas> mroman: no, probably not the biggest, because golf SE is pretty large these days, and there are a few other big ones with fewer languages
09:03:25 <b_jonas> but it's certainly one of the biggest
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09:04:41 <mroman> there are "big" sites with just a few languages, yes.
09:05:02 <mroman> Shinh could do some visual and statistics update.
09:05:16 <mroman> and add disqus or something and it would be a very nice looking webpage :)
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09:08:03 <oerjan> mroman: i think anyone who makes a site like shinh has already decided to disagree with you hth
09:08:29 <oerjan> (i.e. no styling at all that i can see)
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09:10:36 <mroman> http://golf.shinh.org/site.css
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09:11:19 <FireFly> the stack exchange allows any language, but it doesn't actually verify anything automatically
09:12:04 <mroman> yeah and the SE site-mechanics aren't really any good for golfing.
09:12:06 <FireFly> It's just implicitly understood that either you use a well-known language with free implementations available, or you explain how your code works in-depth
09:12:14 <mroman> no verification, no size-measurement
09:12:31 <mroman> it's just a regular "forum board" where people post code
09:12:37 <mroman> it completely sucks for golfing imo.
09:13:00 <mroman> there's not even a well defined scoring system
09:13:08 <mroman> other than up/down votes afaik
09:13:23 <mroman> golfing is about short programs, not up/down votes
09:13:37 <FireFly> questions tagged as code-golf is about shortest program
09:13:52 <FireFly> there is a userscript to sort by shortest size
09:14:03 <FireFly> but yes, I agree that the platform isn't a good fit for the job
09:14:11 <mroman> Still. It's not a good platform for the job :)
09:14:46 <mroman> which is why I don't really like it.
09:15:50 <FireFly> It's about "programming puzzles and code golf", and the one hard rule is essentially that all questions need an objective winning criterion
09:16:16 <FireFly> When the criterion is votes, they call that a popularity contest
09:16:30 <FireFly> But yeah, some people dislike those questions a lot, and there aren't too many of them
09:16:32 <mroman> I don't even like SE comment system
09:17:12 <b_jonas> mroman: sure, and that's not even the biggest problem
09:17:26 <b_jonas> mroman: the comments are not searchable, and they're deliberately hard to use
09:17:37 <b_jonas> they're deliberately trying to limit comments to put content elsewhere
09:17:46 <FireFly> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/35569/tweetable-mathematical-art is one of the popularity-contest puzzles I like (just to give an example of something that isn't code-golf but still enjoyable)
09:18:00 <FireFly> This one is more demoscene-esque, I guess
09:18:13 <mroman> https://www.mwforum.org/ <- so far one of the best forum software I've ever seen.
09:20:48 <mroman> https://www.mwforum.org/doc/Readme.html#features
09:22:56 <izabera> did you know that the british secret services have a website?
09:23:36 <izabera> with a stilish blurry jpg picture as their background
09:24:12 <mroman> I'd put a hypnotoad animated gif as a background
09:24:32 <izabera> that's not very british, is it?
09:32:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Damarok]] to [[Darmok]]: You have got to be fucking kidding me.
09:33:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43220&oldid=43219 * Oerjan * (+4) Sheesh
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09:40:39 <oerjan> <pikhq> What's next, no ehird? <-- erm if you've been noticing lately...
09:41:47 <oerjan> `le/rn øl/Øl, øl og mere øl.
09:42:36 <oerjan> as for øob, i've got nothing.
09:43:11 <FireFly> It was a nonsensical pun on ÖoB, or "överskottsbolaget"
09:43:28 <FireFly> but since we were doing ø's, well
09:44:55 <b_jonas> argh, stupid dns of the internal network doesn't work again
09:45:41 <FireFly> Shouldn't ideä be the proper spelling of "idea", going by the diaeresis-avoids-diphtong rule in english?
09:48:47 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
09:49:31 <oerjan> the thing is, it's not actually _english_ diphthongs you avoid, but latin ones hth
09:49:56 <oerjan> `hg cat wisdom/haskell
09:50:02 <HackEgo> hg: unknown command 'cat wisdom/haskell' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff
09:50:16 <oerjan> ``hg cat 'wisdom/haskell'
09:50:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `hg: not found
09:50:22 <oerjan> `` hg cat 'wisdom/haskell'
09:50:23 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
09:51:04 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*ö*: No such file or directory
09:51:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/døsthiswork \ wisdom/døsthiswørk \ wisdom/ø \ wisdom/øl \ wisdom/ørjan
09:51:52 <FireFly> Unless the sea level rises
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09:59:23 <mroman> `learn ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again.
09:59:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'ĥäŝkéll': ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again.
10:00:13 <mroman> (ĥ is pronounced like esperanto ĥ)
10:03:58 <mroman> (χæʃkell would be the correct pronunciation)
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10:13:40 <fizzie> `` unicode χ # as seen here
10:13:41 <HackEgo> U+03C7 GREEK SMALL LETTER CHI \ UTF-8: cf 87 UTF-16BE: 03c7 Decimal: χ \ χ (Χ) \ Uppercase: U+03A7 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
10:14:46 <fizzie> ("shächkell" sounds like some sort of a shachaf-promulgated Haskell fork.)
10:14:54 <FireFly> Annoyingly, "chi" is /ʃi/, isn't it?
10:15:35 <FireFly> At least in swedish I think..
10:15:57 <FireFly> Apparently it's /kaɪ/ in english, huh
10:16:12 <fizzie> I wouldn't have expected *that*.
10:17:04 <Taneb> FireFly, I try to begin it with the same consonant as loch
10:17:27 <mroman> the X-like is the ch, yes
10:17:49 <mroman> (the rough ch in german, or the regular ch in swiss german, we don't have the soft one)
10:17:51 <FireFly> Taneb: the name "chi" (for the letter)? Interesting
10:18:29 <mroman> swiss german speakers have some advantage when learning other languages :)
10:18:38 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't know about this email thing, but I'm not surprised it might have broken.
10:18:45 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't even remember how it worked.
10:18:45 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
10:18:48 <Taneb> mroman, in that they live in a country with three other languages?
10:18:49 <mroman> we have three different r-sounds, two different ch-sounds
10:18:55 <mroman> a lot of nasal, non-nasal sounds
10:19:00 <mroman> like nasal o, non-nasal o
10:19:18 <mroman> voiceless, non-voiceless sounds
10:19:21 <oerjan> fizzie: do you know anything about HackEgo's `revert breakage?
10:19:29 <mroman> Taneb: and a lot of dialects, yes.
10:20:24 <mroman> so we know the difference between ʒ and ʃ etc.
10:20:37 <Taneb> Whereas I can speak: English. A little French and Italian.
10:20:40 <mroman> although english also has distinctions between voiceless and non-voiceless
10:20:48 <Taneb> (not much of either)
10:21:13 <mroman> Does english have d͡ʒ?
10:21:24 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't know anything about that either. I will try to have a look at both things this evening, if I manage.
10:22:32 <Taneb> mroman, I do not know IPA very well but is that the consonant in edge?
10:22:47 <FireFly> mroman: isn't that the j in jungle?
10:23:01 <oerjan> fizzie: i suspect one of the bugs might be as easy as doing a 'rm -r canary.orig' in the right place.
10:23:38 <oerjan> the older thing where it sometimes doesn't pick up changes, well...
10:25:19 <FireFly> I think that one is pretty common in english
10:27:06 <oerjan> <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/a /an overt /' wisdom/real <-- what was that for?
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10:27:26 <mroman> workplace.stackexchange is weird
10:30:51 <HackEgo> sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published by Taneb in 1932, based on Taneb's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
10:31:03 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/s/S/' wisdom/sex
10:31:45 <Taneb> If it is all the same, I would rather sex not be a tanebvention
10:32:04 <oerjan> it does seem a little out of character.
10:33:10 <HackEgo> tanea/Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj.
10:33:45 <lambdabot> No instance for (Enum [Char]) arising from a use of ‘succ’
10:33:45 <lambdabot> In the expression: succ "fortresr"
10:34:03 <FireFly> oh, no instance for Enum a => Enum [a]
10:34:14 <Taneb> > "fortresr" & _last %~ succ
10:35:57 <oerjan> `learn Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
10:35:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'sex': Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
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10:52:31 <boily> hellørjan! Tanelle?
10:53:20 <olsner> were you thanking oerjan for quitting?
10:54:24 <boily> it's early in the morning. I'm not exactly cohérent yet.
10:54:48 <boily> @tell oerjan AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I couldn't even hellørjan you properly.
10:55:08 <Taneb> olsner, for changing the wisdom
10:55:47 <olsner> I'm sort of relieved sex was not actually a tanebvention
10:57:20 <boily> still trying to Italian porthello Taneb. it's not easy.
10:58:12 <Taneb> Were it night-time, buonanottaneb?
10:58:38 <boily> yes, if this were the case.
10:59:12 <boily> Tanebuongiorno, perhaps?
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11:35:21 <boily> but for now, good tanebye!
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12:02:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kingofthenerdz3 * New user account
12:11:10 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, did you make sense of my nats yesterday?
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12:55:03 <mroman> Otherwise I'm not interested.
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13:38:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crave * New user account
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13:51:17 * oren searches for an address. google tells him it's in another city.
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13:52:38 <oren> yahoo has the right one
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13:59:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43221&oldid=41157 * Crave * (+92) Added := alternative to = to remove ambiguity
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14:02:07 <Taneb> Aaaaaah my connection is not doing well
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14:08:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43222&oldid=33277 * Crave * (+400)
14:08:58 <mroman> coppro: Did you mean Nat?
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14:12:12 <Taneb> coppro, https://gist.github.com/Taneb/f2021eab65ba59aa3693
14:13:24 <mroman> Without looking I'm guessing it's some weird Haskell code with coerce and pure
14:14:30 <Taneb> It is weird Haskell code
14:14:42 <Taneb> But it's sensible weird Haskell code
14:14:55 <HackEgo> 768) <mroman> You can't quote me. \ 1139) <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom <Bike> ass is an urban legend \ 1218) <mroman_> Rule of thumb is that if I can understand it you're not using enough fancy stuff \ 1221) <mroman_> piece of cake doing this stuff in Burlesque :P [19 lines later] <mroman_> I hate Burlesque :(
14:15:06 <mroman> You're not using enough fancy stuff.
14:15:29 <Taneb> Wow, I can't really understand what I am doing
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14:20:30 <Taneb> mroman, I think it's possible to make quotRem even more efficient with a fair amount of number theory
14:20:36 <Taneb> But I am not very good at number theory
14:22:33 <Taneb> I think this implementation of natural numbers could work quite well in some flavours of graph programming
14:29:52 <mroman> I don't know enough about number theory
14:37:56 <shachaf> oerjan: the reals are overt hth
14:41:37 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence.
14:44:46 <Jafet> Long division shouldn't be too difficult there
14:45:49 <Jafet> (It requires only (+), (-), and (<=).)
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14:51:13 <Jafet> (Well, the code didn't look like long division at first)
14:56:38 <Jafet> A problem with division is that the result can be exponentially larger than the inputs, eg. (2^(2n+1) + 1)/3
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16:47:49 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 53m 1s ago: AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I couldn't even hellørjan you properly.
16:48:22 <HackEgo> a resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment
16:48:38 <oerjan> `learn A resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment.
16:48:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'resume': A resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment.
16:49:32 <shachaf> oerjan: overtness is a concept dual to compactness and you have been using it all your life hth
16:49:48 * oerjan currently resisting urge to proofread all of wisdom for punctuation and capitalization
16:50:23 <shachaf> `` egrep -rl '^[a-z]' wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##'
16:50:24 <HackEgo> nooga \ drone \ cpressey \ lambdabot \ ant \ indentity function \ mroman_ \ guestbot \ burma \ bird \ oren \ fomething \ mojibake \ otp \ gaspasjo \ qdbformat \ impomatic \ ø \ mauke \ hovercraft \ bookwatching \ forty \ epsilon \ å \ ehird \ categorical product \ metasepia \ lystrosaurus \ cyberdrone \ php \ hipchat \ copumpkin \ ĥäŝkéll \ f
16:50:42 <oerjan> "As I already stated, all spaces are overt in classical topology."
16:50:45 <olsner> is gaspasjo the actual norwegian spelling?
16:50:51 <oerjan> shachaf: I SAID RESISTING
16:51:13 <shachaf> `` egrep -rl '^[a-z]' wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##' | wc -l
16:51:42 <oerjan> olsner: probably gaspatsjo if we bothered to respell it
16:51:46 <shachaf> http://math.andrej.com/2012/10/03/am-i-a-constructive-mathematician/
16:51:54 <HackEgo> gaspasjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days
16:52:26 <shachaf> "gaspasjo" is the norwegian spelling of gaspasjo hth
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16:52:40 <HackEgo> gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days
16:52:55 <oerjan> apparently both are in wisdom...
16:53:07 <b_jonas> oerjan: well norwegian can be complicated
16:53:29 <oerjan> also the wisdom/ repository shows up on the first google hit page for "gaspatsjo" (with quotes), which is not reassuring
16:54:07 <oerjan> "gaspasjo" has slightly more hits (67 est.)
16:54:50 <oerjan> some of the hits are actual norwegian, but i take it it's not a word that's used enough for spelling to be localized
16:55:19 <b_jonas> can't it have two spellings?
16:57:19 <shachaf> oerjan: i heard that your country tried to invent poutine, but you had neither curds nor whey
16:57:50 <oerjan> shachaf: actually the latter is false i think, whey is what brunost is made of
16:58:19 <shachaf> ok but that ruins the pun tdnh
16:58:37 <oerjan> 's ok i didn't notice the pun anyway
16:59:54 <shachaf> it was just the last two words hth
17:00:01 <oerjan> b_jonas: well sure, but gaspatsjo would be the way to spell it maximally close to the spanish pronunciation
17:00:34 <oerjan> shachaf: hm "oh whey" puns are synchronistic for me today
17:02:01 <oerjan> as in, i saw one earlier, and then thought of it again when i passed by the protein pulver section of the grocery shop (seems to be all the whey)
17:03:57 <oerjan> around 1900, norwegian developed some rather consistent rules for how to nationalize spelling of french and latin words. too bad english won.
17:10:07 <b_jonas> oerjan: English won temporarily at least. It was latin for a while, then german, then russian, (with french going somewhat in parallel with the German and Russian) now English. Chinese might be the next, or not, it's hard to read the future.
17:14:12 <oerjan> from the norwegian point of view, it was never that much russian hth :)
17:15:23 <b_jonas> oerjan: russian won on this side of the Berlin wall, german and french and english on the other side, and the iron wall has led to a LOT of duplicated scientific research when people didn't know about existing results on the other side of the wall
17:15:44 <b_jonas> at least a little of that problem still remains, at least in some areas
17:16:53 <b_jonas> of course it's hard to be sure that's what's happened in any one case, because there are always duplicate results and difficult to find results even without the iron curtain
17:17:08 <b_jonas> (and triplicate results, which you clearly can't blame on JUST the iron curtain)
17:17:23 <b_jonas> but this is the general impression I have
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17:29:14 <oerjan> @tell boily shellocking
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18:04:29 <nys> immutable brainfuck
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18:11:58 <shachaf> zzo38: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/612057-generating-magic-cards-using-deep-recurrent-neural
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18:27:59 <Jafet> There have been quadruple results on the same side of the iron curtain
18:31:17 <Jafet> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner–Fischer_algorithm)
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19:22:08 <HackEgo> vorpal/Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea.
19:22:20 <HackEgo> oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia
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19:51:07 <HackEgo> quintopia/quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator.
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19:51:33 <HackEgo> thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano.
19:51:38 <HackEgo> funciton/A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one.
19:52:14 <FireFly> Not to be confused with a fukcton
19:52:24 <shachaf> FireFly: did you get stuck in snakebird twh
19:52:57 <FireFly> yes until I got stuck in a car travelling 700km south tdnh
19:53:39 <shachaf> i thought you said 700km/h
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19:54:14 <FireFly> No, although Koenigsegg did something crazy recently
19:54:47 <shachaf> what do you think of the fact that distances and speeds are measured in miles and miles/h here
19:55:12 <shachaf> the extra confusing part is that i only learned about distances and speeds after i moved here
19:55:17 <shachaf> so i think in celsius but also in miles tdnh
19:55:31 <FireFly> we tend to measure distance in mil here (1 mil = 10 km)
19:55:43 <FireFly> sorry to add to the confusion
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19:56:28 <FireFly> (due to hysterical raisins)
19:57:29 <shachaf> there's no good name for miles per hour anyway
19:57:37 <shachaf> in hebrew km/h is called "kamash" which is a good name
19:57:44 <shachaf> hebrew acronyms are too good
19:57:53 <shachaf> yes, you can convert with fibonacci numbers
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19:58:41 <HackEgo> le/rn/le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
19:58:43 <pikhq> Kinda a shame there aren't more roads in the US signed metric.
19:59:09 <shachaf> you know what else is scow?
19:59:18 <shachaf> measuring gasoline consumption in miles per gallon
19:59:29 <pikhq> FireFly: http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP932.TXT
19:59:30 <shachaf> FireFly: presumably "has signs that use metric measurements"
19:59:34 <pikhq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metric_Interstate_19_cropped.jpg
20:00:04 <FireFly> shachaf: that makes more sense than two's complement signs
20:01:19 <pikhq> The really confusing thing is probably the parts of the country with weird mixes.
20:01:24 <FireFly> pikhq: so, using metric units?
20:01:41 <pikhq> For instance, apparently Puerto Rico uses metric units for mile markers and distances, but imperial for speed limits.
20:02:08 <pikhq> And liters for gasoline.
20:02:32 <pikhq> They might be the only place that would like to know miles per liter.
20:03:39 <pikhq> For extra fun (though nobody to my knowledge does this), apparently a car may have its spedometer and odometer in metric only.
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20:09:09 <coppro> pretty sure that's legal in the USA
20:11:17 <olsner> pikhq: or do they use liter per 100 miles?
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20:17:07 <pikhq> coppro: That's what I was saying. It is explicitly legal.
20:17:39 <coppro> pikhq: meant to say Canada
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20:20:45 <HackEgo> Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
20:21:44 <tswett> `run sed -i -e "s/extensive/the author's extensive/" wisdom/sex
20:21:48 <HackEgo> Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on the author's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
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20:30:28 <b_jonas> nice! spam in Serbian again
20:30:35 <b_jonas> I really get spam in so many different languages
20:31:03 <J_Arcane> http://yarchive.net/comp/polyglot.html
20:31:33 <b_jonas> I mean sure, the spammers won't know what language to write me, and I won't tell them, so it's not surprising, but it's changed in these last five years
20:31:43 <b_jonas> in the old days all the spam was English or Chinese only
20:33:07 <b_jonas> no, each spam in one specific language, not one spam that works in many languages. or maybe there are spams in many language but I don't execute their fancy javascript that makes that work.
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20:59:24 <HackEgo> myndzi/myndzi keeps us all on our feet
20:59:33 <HackEgo> monqy/The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details.
20:59:38 <HackEgo> thausiblee/A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.
20:59:44 <HackEgo> fternoon/Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners.
21:00:29 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
21:01:07 <HackEgo> procrastination/The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube.
21:01:13 <HackEgo> norway/Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
21:01:21 <HackEgo> rdococ rdococlikestomakelanguageslikethis/rdococ RDOCOCLIKESTOMAKELANGUAGESLIKETHIS
21:01:28 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/norway
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21:10:23 <oren> i'm back from a very long interview
21:11:08 <b_jonas> oren: good, what was it like, and which side were you?
21:12:41 <oren> I was being interviewed, and I talked to three engineers, two Directors, and the CTO. They asked me to solve all kinds of programming problems
21:13:28 <oren> Including "reverse the words in a string, in place, without reversing the letters"
21:14:17 <pikhq> Hmm. That's actually a slightly tricky version of that.
21:14:38 <oren> The directors and the CTO wer talking to me by google hangouts
21:15:28 <oren> I'll tell you my solution: reverse the whole string, then find each word and reverse it
21:16:00 <zzo38> That is what I thought too
21:16:52 <zzo38> Another alternative is to just do both at the same time
21:17:08 <pikhq> I was initially thinking of trying to swap words in place, but that's probably a non-starter.
21:17:14 <b_jonas> and then you have to reverse each delimiter between the words as well
21:17:37 <oren> I initially tried doing that, but it ended up being O(N^3)
21:17:40 <b_jonas> so yes, two pass is probably the easiest
21:18:10 <oren> or maybe O(N^2), at least two loop levels anyway
21:18:21 <pikhq> it might be possible to get it faster (by a constant factor) with some temporary storage.
21:18:54 <pikhq> But I think that's your best approach overall.
21:19:52 <zzo38> How much money do you want to create a proxy server that accesses Wikipedia and then returns it in plaintext (with http:// and not https://)?
21:20:08 <zzo38> (And it has to be public)
21:20:30 <pikhq> I'd prefer writing a high-quality and simple SSL lib.
21:20:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: I'm not going to host public proxies like that, no.
21:21:19 <oren> Is it possible to implement SSL faster if you're only doing it because the other side is?
21:21:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: why is the api not accessible in http still?
21:21:29 <b_jonas> even if https is the default
21:21:35 <zzo38> I don't know, they refuse to fix it
21:21:38 <pikhq> oren: Not if you are trying to be reasonable.
21:21:54 <pikhq> oren: You can implement SSL without ciphers, but no server *should* be doing it.
21:21:54 <zzo38> Even writing plain HTTP requests on port 443 fails with a 400 error.
21:21:57 <oren> IOW simplify the SSL at the cost of your own security
21:21:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: I mean, for just reading, you don't even have to send login cookies
21:22:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: well sure, they're on port 80 probably
21:22:25 <zzo38> If I send a request on port 80 it tries to redirect to HTTPS
21:22:32 <pikhq> oren: The funny thing is, you can simplify SSL better at the cost of not working with insecurity. :)
21:22:49 <pikhq> The secure cipher suites are frankly not that complicated.
21:23:01 <b_jonas> I mean, if you wanted to edit or do other things that require a login, maybe
21:23:09 <pikhq> OpenSSL is punishing itself by being very poorly designed.
21:23:15 <HackEgo> scotland/<Phantom_Hoover> it's that place where they all wear kilts and chase haggises around whilst warding off the loch ness monster with bagpipes
21:23:29 <HackEgo> ant/ants are animals too hth
21:23:33 <zzo38> I want insecure connection even for writing though.
21:23:43 <pikhq> And dealing with some crazy, crazy OSes.
21:23:59 <zzo38> But I would prefer digest authentication and PUT rather than using forms and cookies.
21:24:04 <pikhq> (who gives a shit about OpenVMS's bizarre problems with argv? Fix your damned compiler!)
21:24:10 <b_jonas> hmm, indeed it seems to redirect to https by default
21:24:25 <b_jonas> let me see if there's some easy way to override that
21:24:37 <zzo38> No matter what header I add I cannot turn that off; I tried.
21:24:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: ok, I'd just like to see it for myself still
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21:30:17 <zzo38> If you really want security, you should be using keys agreed in person, where the client requires the key too as well as the server, and the key consist of a number displayed on a security card with constantly changing numbers, and the user's password, combined together. And you have to avoid HTML and CSS, and require a command-line interface with ANSI-stripping.
21:31:11 <oren> if you really want security, just phyiscially isolate the data
21:32:20 <zzo38> You have to avoid root certificates too, since that can be tampered with.
21:32:26 <oren> have an armed courier carry the data on an sd card.
21:33:38 <zzo38> Or a DVD encrypted with a one-time-pad
21:35:36 <zzo38> It isn't only data security though; there is also software security issue. That's why you have to avoid HTML. If you have a color display, make the interactive terminal session with the server in a different color than the operating system's command-line, and use ANSI-stripping to force it.
21:38:04 <b_jonas> zzo38: apparently they deliberately made HTTPS mandatory for accessing, with no way to force HTTP
21:38:12 <b_jonas> or at least https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/HTTPS claism so
21:38:26 <zzo38> Yes, and they won't fix it
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21:40:21 <b_jonas> this means it's not just a matter of choosing the right hostname or some other trivial option to revert to http explicitly
21:40:41 <b_jonas> I guess you'll probably have to use it with https
21:41:17 <b_jonas> sure, a proxy is possible, and you could run one, but I definitely won't run a _public_ one
21:42:02 <zzo38> Even if you get paid one million dollars?
21:42:16 <zzo38> (Or the equivalent for the currency wherever you are)
21:42:38 <b_jonas> dunno, I'd investigate further if there was a serious offer for that. one million dollars for running the proxy for how long? I can't guarantee such a thing indefinitely
21:43:13 <zzo38> For as long as Wikipedia forces HTTPS
21:43:34 <b_jonas> I definitely can't do that _alone_. I might die before that ends.
21:44:00 <b_jonas> and I'm not good at setting up companies, that's not really my task
21:45:45 <b_jonas> this is silly, the reasons they give for no opt-out are silly, they cover only some mechanisms for opt-out, but not all reasonable mechanisms
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21:51:12 <zzo38> I don't see how plain HTTP connections on port 443 would be much problem for them, even if plain HTTP connections on port 80 can be a problem. A different set of cookies can be used too (since you can specify which cookies are for secure connections only)
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21:57:45 <lambdabot> CYUL 182100Z 17007KT 160V240 30SM SCT050TCU BKN150 BKN240 27/18 A2978 RMK TCU4AC1CI1 SLP085 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
21:58:26 <lambdabot> ESSL 182150Z 01002KT 9999 -SHRA FEW007CB SCT021 BKN035 11/11 Q1002
22:00:23 <boily> hellolsner. quite humid?
22:00:30 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 31m 17s ago: shellocking
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22:15:47 <olsner> boily: I think it's raining
22:16:16 <olsner> I might have gotten the metar of somewhere else entirely though
22:23:58 <boily> all metars are somewhere else. it's just that some are more elsewhere than others.
22:34:00 * pikhq now just has to wait for an offer letter.
22:35:25 <shachaf> Is there nothing more beyond that?
22:35:48 <pikhq> Well, there *is*. I need to talk with relocation team to discuss relocation options, I need to move, so on.
22:36:18 <shachaf> you should ask them for more money hth
22:36:22 <shachaf> or at least i should have done that
22:36:56 <shachaf> or maybe you're past all that nonsense
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23:36:52 <boily> qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqquinthellopia.
23:37:08 <boily> (how does one go about pronouncing 'qqqqqqqqqqq'?)
23:44:08 <pikhq> Imma movin' to California.
23:44:48 <boily> pikhq: you're unbalancing the chännel hth
23:46:01 <fowl> Google told me to write more java. I said I'm not that desperate yet :<
23:46:16 <pikhq> Who said anything about Java?
23:46:41 <boily> fellowl. Java is fine.
23:47:02 <zzo38> Is there the MIME type for "ASCII record format"?
23:47:19 <fowl> I'm sure #esoteric loves java, wouldn't surprise me
23:47:26 <quintopia> give me a plug at google. maybe theyd hire me this time
23:47:27 <boily> hezzo38. record, as with GS/RS/US/FS?
23:47:50 <quintopia> at the very least they may give me another free trip to cali
23:47:52 <boily> hmm... I wouldn't think so, but it'd be quite useful.
23:48:00 <boily> zzo38: perhaps x-vendor/x-record?
23:48:02 <pikhq> zzo38: text/plain?
23:48:31 <boily> pikhq: pikhelloq, before I forget I hadn't porhelloed you.
23:48:33 <zzo38> pikhq: It isn't really plain text though, it is split into records and stuff like that
23:48:43 <pikhq> Or maybe text/vnd.ascii
23:49:11 <pikhq> text/vnd.ascii-record?
23:49:20 <boily> it's ASCII, but it's... more than ASCII, kwim?
23:49:36 <zzo38> It is ASCII, but it isn't plain text.
23:49:42 <pikhq> Nah, it's 100% ASCII it's just using ASCII control characters that aren't used much.
23:49:54 <pikhq> It's using ASCII for the purpose of storing records.
23:50:00 <boily> text/swamp? text/forest?
23:50:20 <pikhq> CSV would be the more "standard" way of doing this, mind you.
23:50:38 <zzo38> I don't really like CSV though
23:51:10 <zzo38> Also it fails if the data contains line breaks and so on; ASCII records format is probably going to be simpler
23:51:25 <pikhq> CSV can represent that if you implement it correctly.
23:51:36 <pikhq> But, yeah, CSV does kinda suck.
23:52:47 <zzo38> Still, I thought, "vnd." means vendor specific and it isn't really vendor-specific but maybe "text/x-ascii" should be used I don't know
23:52:54 <pikhq> The more obvious means of representing records in ASCII is, of course, using unit seperator (U+001F) and record seperator (U+001E), with escape (U+001B) to escape instances of those bytes in the record.
23:53:12 <pikhq> (as well as itself, of course)
23:56:15 <zzo38> I would use DLE to escape instances of those in the data rather than ESC, I think