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00:26:31 <oerjan> <tswett> Why haven't I created that Haskell EDSL for brainfuck yet? <-- because BF syntax and haskell syntax aren't very compatible hth
00:27:58 <oerjan> i don't think e.g. [>,] will ever parse as haskell
00:28:10 <tswett> loop (right `then` input)
00:29:15 <oerjan> also that should clearly be loop $ do right; input
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00:35:05 <shachaf> oerjan: why make it a monad if every action returns () twhib
00:36:10 <HackEgo> the world holds its breath
00:36:59 <oerjan> hm i think ` just became a dead key in putty. let me see if that means they've started working in google...
00:40:44 <oerjan> hm it's possible gvim also treats ` more sanely now
00:41:40 <oerjan> shachaf: does *ib mean what i suspect it means twhib
00:42:03 <shachaf> what do you suspect it means twhib
00:42:14 <oerjan> that would be telling tdnhib
00:42:52 <shachaf> when you say it it means just what you want it to mean hth
00:43:39 * oerjan actually has two guesses but this one is funnier
00:43:52 <shachaf> I had a meaning for it earlier but I forgot.
00:44:10 <oerjan> my boring guess was "i bet"
00:48:42 <oren> I have 1151 characters
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01:04:20 <oerjan> hm i wonder if gamma got reset to the wrong value
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01:08:10 <oerjan> for my screen, when updating to windows 10
01:08:29 <oerjan> it was set back to 1.0, which is ridiculously dark
01:08:53 <oerjan> if i could remember what value i put it at last time...
01:09:03 <oren> no, why did you upgrade, didn't you read in the Register about how shit it is?
01:10:00 <oerjan> nope, i'm pretty sure uk newspapers are no authority on shit
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01:11:21 <oerjan> why is it shit btw, it is quite possible i disabled a lot of those things
01:11:59 <oren> It collects all your private data and sends it to the cloud
01:12:13 <shachaf> Everything does that these days.
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01:13:19 <oerjan> oren: sounds like most of the toggles i changed (i changed _all_ the toggles in the install setup)
01:13:42 <oren> Oh. then you just have to worry about the next update changing them back
01:14:56 <oren> I recently bought a XP disk
01:15:55 <oren> I'm gonna use it on my new laptop when I buy one
01:15:59 <oerjan> i found the log discussion from last time i looked at the gamma, let's see if i was wise enough to mention the final settings
01:16:24 <oren> so I can dual boot Debian and Windows XP
01:16:47 <oerjan> nope, i guess i should try the calibration site linked
01:17:40 <oren> I have some 32-bit games that don't work in Win7
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01:18:40 <oren> Is it possible to tri-boot Win7, XP and Debian?
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01:39:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skrundz * New user account
01:45:24 <oren> I was going to post a long message on facebook, until I realized I should put it on my website instead
01:50:35 * oerjan concludes with R:1.3, G:1.3, B:1.2
01:51:07 <zzo38> You don't need to make it a monad if every action returns () just make a monoid instead. If you do need a monad you can then use it with a writer monad, to make the monad.
01:52:39 <oerjan> (that test requires turning off the lights)
01:53:50 <oerjan> the problem with a laptop monitor is that it doesn't have half the settings that test suggests adjusting, and some of those it does have are software fakes. but at least it has gamma settings.
01:54:41 <oerjan> istr i concluded the same last time, and adjusted only the gamma. that sharpness thing looked horribly off though, but i see no setting for it.
01:55:01 <oren> I have never adjusted the gamma on anything
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01:55:40 <oerjan> oren: then you may or may not be getting a lousy view
01:56:02 <oerjan> i adjusted it (both times) because dark pictures look too dark otherwise
01:56:32 <oren> How far away should I be from the screen to adjutst it with these patterns
01:58:09 <oerjan> oh. it probably says somewhere, i didn't pay that much attention this time
01:58:33 <oerjan> it's not like the settings menu is tremendously accurate
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01:58:48 <oren> fuck now everything is almost white
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01:59:28 <oerjan> i guess something went wrong then
02:00:08 <oerjan> oh btw i used the patterns on http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php
02:00:25 <oerjan> i noticed that windows has some patterns itself
02:00:37 <oren> something went worng alright. I'm putting it bakc the way it was. I can see dark images by tliting the screen anyway.
02:01:13 <oerjan> you're supposed to do the previous tests first, i sort of ended up ignoring them
02:01:43 <oerjan> (i have no real contrast setting)
02:02:37 <oren> Looks like the defaults settings were basically perfect
02:03:43 <oerjan> i guess if you have a monitor which actually _supports_ the standards, it would do that...
02:05:27 <coppro> for me it really depends on the vertical angle
02:05:30 <oren> this is a laptop monitor from 2006. I dunno
02:05:31 <oerjan> btw my gamma adjustment was just with 2-3 points from the default.
02:05:31 <coppro> I can make it have any value I want
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02:06:19 <oerjan> oren: that's about as old as that site is...
02:06:40 <oerjan> presumably physics hasn't changed much in that time.
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02:07:29 <oerjan> `` yes | nl | head -10 | shuf
02:07:30 <HackEgo> 9y \ 4y \ 7y \ 6y \ 1y \ 10y \ 2y \ 8y \ 5y \ 3y
02:07:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: aka shuffle hth
02:09:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes. Shuffle, but we care about time complexity
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02:10:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: fisher-yates is O(n) hth
02:13:47 <oren> right. but can we reduce time complexity in line with reducing possible permutions?
02:15:26 <oerjan> not by more than a small constant
02:15:58 <oerjan> you mean by making it _not_ a perfect shuffle?
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02:20:53 <hppavilion[1]> That'd just be a sorting algorithm with a non-traditional issorted()
02:23:43 <oren> what about making n^0.75 swaps?
02:26:52 <Sgeo> Perl 6 keeps putting me in mind of lenses, though it's missing things
02:27:06 <Sgeo> At least I think it's missing things, I feel not well-versed in lenses to say for sure
02:27:18 <Sgeo> More that... it allows for similar expressivity
02:29:02 <oren> or n^(some constant near 1) anyway
02:31:39 <oren> suppose you have some ζ near 1. perform fisher-yates shuffle but skip some steps so that you only perform N^ζ swaps. For example, skip at 1/(N-N^ζ) intervals.
02:32:19 <oren> that gives you a continuous range of worse and worse shuffles
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02:54:34 <oren> An amusing consequence of O notation
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02:56:13 <oren> the algorithm, 'skip n random swaps from fisher-yates shuffle' seems to have worse time complexity than fisher yates itself.
02:56:43 <oren> an amusing consequence of the way time complexity is defined rather
02:58:20 <zzo38> The DM has told me that I am the only person he knows who will win the Dungeons&Dragons game by administrative chaos.
02:59:29 <oren> administrative chaos ｯﾃ ﾅﾆ?
03:16:53 <zzo38> I am not exactly sure really how he means, but it may be explained by examples, perhaps. It does seem to me, that is how you win the war, you win the war by administrative chaos; fighting might not help so much.
03:21:27 <zzo38> As they say, the pen is mightier than the sword.
03:22:38 <oren> 1197 characters. All Latin-B, Number Forms.
03:23:41 <oren> zzo38: I see. that's roleplaying!
03:32:44 <oren> what maniacs go around putting cedillas on E's?!
03:33:00 <zzo38> I don't know? Maybe it depend what language you are writing
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03:50:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stream]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43680&oldid=43597 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Nonstandard Streams */ Corrected "roll" to "role"
03:52:11 <hppavilion1> I still think "stdyay" should be a standard stream
03:54:43 <oren> oerjan: that figures.
03:55:44 <oren> based on the names of poles I know, they stick random shit on all their letters
03:56:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stream]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43681&oldid=43680 * Hppavilion1 * (+102) /* #Esoteric Extended Standard Streams */ Clarified STDYAYIN usages
03:59:12 <zzo38> Brazil? I don't live at Brazil.
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04:00:06 <shachaf> oerjan: what's the secret meaning twhib
04:00:51 <shachaf> it might help in norway too
04:01:04 <oren> I wonder if it's possible to change my legal name to a Zalgo version of itself
04:01:36 <shachaf> I'm not sure that "zalgo" thing has a fixed point.
04:04:56 <oerjan> the fixed point is when all the universe has been absorbed into it hth
04:10:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43682&oldid=40286 * Quintopia * (+314)
04:11:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43683&oldid=43682 * Quintopia * (+38) /* Cleanup */
04:11:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43684&oldid=43683 * Quintopia * (+2) /* BF Constants Cleanup */
04:13:00 -!- Aearnus|IRCCloud has changed nick to Aearnus_.
04:13:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43685&oldid=43678 * Quintopia * (-59) Rdebath finished this task
04:16:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unlambda]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43686&oldid=41015 * Esowiki201529A * (+70) /* Palindromes */
04:23:41 <oren> I now cover a continuous range from U+A0 to U+2AF
04:27:25 <oerjan> shachaf: hint: fortune cookies
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04:29:36 <oren> ȠȡȢȣȤȥȦȧȨȩȪȫȬȭȮȯ
04:29:37 <oren> ȰȱȲȳȴȵȶȷȸȹȺȻȼȽȾȿ
04:29:37 <oren> ɀɁɂɃɄɅɆɇɈɉɊɋɌɍɎɏ
04:38:33 <Sgeo> Superosity's breaking the fourth wall
04:44:37 <zzo38> But did they manage to break the fifth and sixth wall yet?
04:53:39 <HackEgo> U+1F409 DRAGON \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 89 UTF-16BE: d83ddc09 Decimal: 🐉 \ 🐉 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F432 DRAGON FACE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 b2 UTF-16BE: d83ddc32 Decimal: 🐲 \ 🐲 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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05:00:09 <zzo38> What are your suggestions/complaints/questions about my "playmod" program (and my other programs)?
05:03:46 <oren> how to defeat caching?
05:04:00 <zzo38> What are you trying to defeat the caching of?
05:05:53 <oren> clearing my cache didn't work
05:06:11 <oren> so it is caching somewhere between me and the werver
05:06:32 <oren> Hmm what if I rename the file
05:07:13 <shachaf> zzo38: What is your "playmod" program?
05:07:28 <oren> Heh that worked
05:07:59 <zzo38> It is a program to play MOD/S3M/IT/XM and many other formats, taking the music file from stdin and write raw audio data to stdout.
05:08:22 -!- shachaf has set topic: The channel where "is not a legitimate question" is not a legitimate sentence fragment | Sir Fungellot does not fnord. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/.
05:10:03 <oren> zzo38: raw audio data in what format?
05:10:37 <zzo38> You can specify mono or stereo, and you can specify 11025 Hz or 22050 Hz or 44100 Hz, and you can specify unsigned 8-bits or signed 16-bits or signed 32-bits.
05:11:17 <zzo38> (The output may be infinite, so you might have to interrupt it)
05:14:28 <zzo38> You can push ^C to interrupt it like you can interrupt other program, although depending what you are sending the output to you might also use SIGPIPE
05:14:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*).
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05:14:55 <zzo38> (And you can also push ^Z to pause; these are same like any other programs.)
05:14:55 <shachaf> Will that always end it at a proper point?
05:15:47 <zzo38> No, it is not guaranteed. You can turn off looping though, so that it will not be infinite; still the point it ends might not necessarily be the proper point (it depends what music file you are trying to play).
05:16:05 <shachaf> But will it always stop correctly?
05:16:21 <shachaf> Maybe with raw audio it's OK.
05:16:35 <zzo38> Yes, it will always stop correctly.
05:17:13 <zzo38> It won't stop in the middle of a 16-bit or 32-bit number being output.
05:23:42 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel where "The channel where is surrounding its own quotation" is surrounding its own quotation | Sir Fungellot does not fnord. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/.
05:37:21 <zzo38> When TeX displays "1507 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+50000", why is it "15000+50000"; what is the significance of like this with the plus sign?
05:38:44 <zzo38> It is not a standard feature of TeX.
05:49:26 <zzo38> I like the Athena scroll bars, do you like that?
05:57:46 <HackEgo> danddreclist 65: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
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06:17:19 <hppavilion[1]> There wouldn't happen to be a channel about language design that isn't necessarily esoteric, is there?
06:26:13 <oerjan> what a silly idea. i remember someone mentioning #osdev which is about os'es...
06:27:34 * oerjan recalls lambda the ultimate but that's not irc/chat
06:31:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43687&oldid=43685 * Rdebath * (+1839) Now it's finished, probably. Brute forced to 16 instructions, most of the way through 17 and 100000 steps. 1000000 steps is running, nothing for this page yet.
06:31:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43688&oldid=43684 * Rdebath * (+780) /* BF Constants Cleanup */
06:44:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43689&oldid=43343 * Rdebath * (+609350) Please don't break ...
06:56:32 <oerjan> did it break, i'm scared to check
06:57:50 <b_jonas> Do I understand it right that the Apache Portable Runtime at http://apr.apache.org/ is a sort of portable basic operations library similar to libglib, and that it's broken to two packages in such a way that apr contains the algorithm stuff and apr-util contains the system-dependent stuff?
06:58:30 <b_jonas> Except it seems to be a bit newer in the design than glib.
06:59:39 <b_jonas> also, it uses longer prefixes for its symbols, apr_* and APR_* instead of g* and G*
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07:13:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Underload/Numbers]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43690&oldid=43028 * Esowiki201529A * (+46)
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07:18:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43691&oldid=43689 * Rdebath * (+2689) And the edit ? That works too ?!?!?
07:22:43 <b_jonas> wow, I think I just got spam in Vietnamese language, for possibly the first time
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08:05:25 <shachaf> oerjan: are you in the mood for a spot of type trickery
08:05:58 <oerjan> the timing is somewhat atrocious
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08:09:47 <shachaf> well, i'll just give you the idea
08:10:01 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]_: There's a #proglangdesign with 37 people on it.
08:10:11 <oerjan> half the point is that if i start thinking about it, i might not get to sleep
08:10:14 <fizzie> "Programming Language Design - discussing programming languages designs, especially new/radical ideas and new/lesser known languages. Old topics: type systems, memory management, parallel programming, concurrency, and implementation issues. Discussed: Python, Scala, Clojure, F#, Haskell/Clean/CAL, Go, Rust, or <insert your favorite language>"
08:10:26 <fizzie> I won't, because I'm not.
08:10:29 <fizzie> I just see the number.
08:10:46 <oerjan> (the other half is that this is one of those days where i'm having trouble deciding whether i _should_ try to sleep soon)
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08:11:09 <shachaf> > run $ plus minus minus plus
08:12:00 <shachaf> > run $ L.loop (plus minus plus) minus
08:12:23 <shachaf> trying to figure out how to make loops work (they don't really work yet)
08:12:31 <shachaf> ideally you could use [] syntax, maybe with OverloadedLists or something
08:12:58 <shachaf> oerjan: by the way, i'm currently trying to decide whether to get to sleep, so something is way off in your time zone
08:13:05 <shachaf> maybe it's your sleeping schedule hth
08:13:52 <shachaf> International Baccalaureate®
08:13:58 <oerjan> shachaf: um my sleeping schedule is off 90% of the time
08:14:15 <shachaf> good, so you can figure out this haskell thing
08:14:52 <oerjan> also, i've lately been annoyed by people trying to make decisions for me.
08:16:45 <shachaf> anyway this is pertaining to a discussion earlier today
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08:29:06 <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 36m 10s ago: <mroman> damn I hate this. <-- clearly the only insurance worth having is one that insures you against not having the right insurances.
08:29:50 <myname> that'd be nice, because if it wouldn't pay you out, it has to pay you out
08:30:07 <shachaf> oerjan: oh, are you in a coöperative mood
08:30:15 <shachaf> in the mood for a hug, perhaps
08:30:53 <myname> were there ever #esoteric channel meetings?
08:31:17 <oerjan> i think shachaf has met a few people from here
08:31:38 <shachaf> Let's have a meeting right now.
08:31:49 <shachaf> point of order: too many meetings
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08:32:17 <shachaf> spot of the too many meetings, governor?
08:32:37 <shachaf> the meeting has been adjourned
08:33:21 <Taneb> shachaf, you forgot Any Other Business!
08:33:33 <shachaf> Taneb: Oops. You'd better call another meeting.
08:33:44 <Taneb> I'm not on the committee
08:33:55 <shachaf> which means you're on the mmittee
08:34:02 <shachaf> which is just what you need for a mmitteeng
08:34:37 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't even remember who's from here, but there have been a few.
08:34:56 <shachaf> Sometimes people end up around here.
08:35:00 <shachaf> Probably because the bay area is the best area.
08:35:20 <Taneb> I have not anyone who was in this channel before I met them
08:35:20 <oerjan> i think it might have the greatest concentration?
08:38:35 <shachaf> Taneb: what did you think of my haskell puzzle
08:38:44 <Taneb> Which Haskell puzzle
08:38:55 <shachaf> making loops work in the haskell bf dsl
08:39:04 <shachaf> maybe with overloaded lists or just with a function called loop
08:39:22 <shachaf> > run $ plus minus minus plus plus -- magic
08:43:52 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
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08:44:18 <shachaf> oerjan: also pikhq and i were independently invited to the same event hth
08:44:24 <mroman> haven't done Haskell in a while
08:44:35 <oerjan> shachaf: synchronicity!
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08:45:20 <oerjan> did any of you know what the other looked like
08:45:59 <shachaf> well, there's a picture of me on my stackoverflow page hth
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08:48:26 <oerjan> wait is this bf thing your type question
08:49:54 <oerjan> this weather forecast is too rainy
08:51:01 <oerjan> what was wrong with your L.loop
08:51:09 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘b0 -> BF’ with actual type ‘[t0]’
08:51:09 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘L.loop’, namely ‘[]’
08:51:09 <lambdabot> In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘L.loop []’
08:51:29 <oerjan> > run $ plus L.loop plus
08:51:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘(BF -> BF) -> BF -> c0’ with ‘BF’
08:51:31 <lambdabot> In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘plus L.loop plus’
08:51:31 <lambdabot> In the expression: run $ plus L.loop plus
08:53:13 <lambdabot> (B c, B b) => (b -> BF) -> BF -> c
08:54:11 <shachaf> apparently the forecast is not only rainy but icy
08:54:53 <oerjan> i cannot understand that without its methods
08:55:15 <shachaf> class B a where { tob :: BF -> a; frb :: a -> BF }
08:55:39 <shachaf> look this solution is suboptimal, that's why i was hoping you'd invent something better
08:56:22 <shachaf> by the way an earlier version sort of worked without run, but you had to annotate it :: String, and it didn't work as well in other ways
08:56:56 <shachaf> also this BF is unnecessary, you can just use String
08:57:19 <shachaf> i was trying to make something work with lists so i didn't want something that overlapped with [a] but that didn't work anyway
08:58:19 <shachaf> you might go with TeX-style "run $ plus (loop plus minus plus) minus" if you can make it work
08:58:30 <shachaf> anyway i was planning to wake up in ~6 hours
08:58:37 <oerjan> oh, i was thinking that might be easier
08:58:59 <oerjan> in fact, why isn't that already working?
08:59:18 <shachaf> > run $ plus (L.loop plus minus plus) minus
08:59:29 <oerjan> :t tob :: BF -> (BF -> BF)
09:00:34 <shachaf> you can probably make something work
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09:01:32 <lambdabot> ‘tob’ (line 164), ‘to’ (imported from Control.Lens)
09:01:38 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘a -> b’ with ‘BF’
09:03:27 <oerjan> :t toB `asTypeOf` \_ _ -> _
09:03:28 <lambdabot> ‘tob’ (line 164), ‘to’ (imported from Control.Lens)
09:03:35 <oerjan> :t tob `asTypeOf` \_ _ -> _
09:03:36 <lambdabot> Where: ‘t1’ is a rigid type variable bound by
09:03:36 <lambdabot> the inferred type of it :: BF -> t -> t1 at Top level
09:03:48 <oerjan> :t tob `asTypeOf` \_ _ -> undefined
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09:07:44 <lambdabot> (B c, B b) => (b -> BF) -> BF -> c
09:08:47 <izabera> ssh whoami.filippo.io <- OHSHIT
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09:20:55 <Taneb> shachaf, I think I have it
09:21:05 <Taneb> I'm not testing it right
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10:20:37 <oerjan> @tell shachaf I sense that all the suggested syntaxes have some trouble with programs like [[]+]
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10:42:49 <mroman> Wasn't there a google search prefix that shows you sites that link to another one?
10:44:12 <mroman> link:wikipedia.org yields NO search results
10:44:55 <mroman> must be broken this feature
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11:01:03 <fizzie> https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2466433?hl=en claims it still exists, but it looks a bit dubious. "link:youtube.com" finds, like, 7k results.
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11:02:24 <mroman> It does still show some results for some sites
11:02:42 <mroman> however it shows none for some sites that clearly should have links to them
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11:05:07 <mroman> well I said "This article was not helpful." :)
11:07:28 <mroman> J_A_Work: Apartment hunting sucks.
11:10:26 <J_A_Work> mroman: Yes it does, but how did you know I’m looking for an apartment? XD
11:10:35 <mroman> also vertical center div should totally be possible
11:10:41 <mroman> it was possible back in the ugly css days
11:10:48 <mroman> and now you can even do calculations
11:10:57 <mroman> J_A_Work: I'm a stalker.
11:11:21 <mroman> No, I was doing some site analyzes
11:11:30 <mroman> and I stumbled upon your tweet about output.html
11:11:37 <mroman> and then I went on reading your twitter feed
11:12:17 <J_A_Work> I don’t even think I remember that tweet. I grumble a lot about web dev when I’m doing it (which somehow seems to be always)
11:14:48 <mroman> I SHOULD NOT have followed that patent link
11:17:43 <mroman> Why would you want to do that?
11:17:49 <fizzie> mroman: You can do a search for "info:wikipedia.org", and then there's a "find web pages that link to wikipedia.org" link, which uses a search term with some hash -- link:FtttyIEMjRYJ:https://www.wikipedia.org/ for me -- but it also doesn't work any better (no matches).
11:26:29 <mroman> border-radius with dashed border looks weird
11:26:34 <mroman> because around the border it's not dashed
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11:57:07 <b_jonas> fungot: You can do a search for "info:wikipedia.org", and then there's a "find web pages that link to wikipedia.org" link, which uses a search term with some hash -- link:FtttyIEMjRYJ:https://www.wikipedia.org/ for me -- but it also doesn't work any better (no matches).
12:01:05 <mroman> goddamnit fungot stop leaving this channel
12:18:40 <mroman> http://jacquesmattheij.com/the-fastest-blog-in-the-world
12:21:02 <Taneb> mroman, is your blog accessible by gopher
12:22:10 <mroman> it's not even accesible by https I think
12:22:32 <mroman> hoster doesn't support it
12:22:41 <mroman> It's a 1CHF a month hoster
12:23:27 <mroman> presumingly mathjax and googlefonts are the largest part of it
12:24:25 <mroman> if you need css for different screens
12:24:28 <mroman> you're doing something wrong.
12:25:04 <mroman> If you need a mobile version of your site you're doing something wrong
12:26:00 <Taneb> Where is your blog?
12:40:37 <mroman> I like simple, clean designs ;)
12:40:42 <mroman> I don't really like The Burlesque Page
12:40:50 <mroman> but I made it like that so it looks like other fancy crappy sites ;)
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12:41:09 <Taneb> I should start a blog
12:41:25 <Taneb> Should I follow mroman's URL scheme and buy taneb.uk?
12:41:48 <fizzie> Buy taneb.co.uk, for your corporate personality.
12:42:51 <mroman> I've also put disqus behind this click-protection
12:42:54 <fizzie> Can you even get a taneb.uk, or does it have to be taneb.me.uk or some-such?
12:43:01 <Taneb> fizzie, you can get taneb.uk
12:43:03 <mroman> so that no data is transfered to/from disqus for users just visiting the page
12:43:22 <Taneb> I have the almost entirely unused haskellhero.uk, on the suggestion of a friend
12:43:33 <mroman> you own haskellhero.uk?
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12:43:53 <mroman> so you're real name is Nathan
12:44:24 <Taneb> mroman, it's in my whois information on IRC
12:44:31 <Taneb> Real name: Nathan van Doorn
12:44:41 <Taneb> It's on my article on the wiki!
12:44:48 <fizzie> Taneb: You should somehow get the kerning trick in the IRC whois too.
12:45:02 <oren> my username IS my real name
12:45:11 <Taneb> Now, should I buy Taneb.me
12:45:48 <Taneb> I am not... belorussian?
12:46:14 <oren> I have orenwatson.be and I'm canadian
12:46:24 <olsner> Taneb: that reminds me, some movie I saw recently had a villain called van Doom, made me think of you
12:46:32 <Taneb> olsner, Fantastic Four?
12:46:45 <mroman> my real name is partially my username
12:47:00 <olsner> Taneb: hmm, I think so, yes
12:47:15 <mroman> and my user is partially a real person
12:51:41 <fizzie> Huh. Starting from September 5th, 2016, anyone can apply for a .fi domain, even non-Finnish people.
12:52:54 <oren> quick. grab sci.fi!
12:53:29 <fizzie> I used to have a sci.fi address, though; they were my ISP.
12:53:36 <fizzie> I thought about zzie.fi when getting my .fi.
12:54:09 <fizzie> Anyway, it used to be so that you dealt directly with the Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority, and they had age and locality rules, but they're moving to the "we only handle the registry, and you deal with a random shady registrar" model.
12:54:20 <mroman> the ie stands for internet explorer
12:54:25 <mroman> because you explore the internet
12:55:57 <fizzie> I wonder if they're opening up .ax too.
12:56:15 <fizzie> Currently it's been even more strict than .fi, which isn't a surprise.
12:56:42 <fizzie> (It's a TLD for the Åland Islands.)
12:58:21 <Deewiant> fizzie: What happens to old registrations?
12:58:33 <b_jonas> fizzie: is it more strict than .hu used to be before it got opened?
12:58:38 <fizzie> Deewiant: You can't renew after that date except via a registrar ("välittäjä").
12:59:16 <b_jonas> oren: what's the status of your font?
12:59:24 <Deewiant> fizzie: And currently one can only register for a year at a time, I guess?
12:59:55 <mroman> "Saunalahti claims that according to the "law," I have to live here for 3 years to get a 4G subscription, or else pay a 300€ deposit"
13:00:14 <fizzie> Deewiant: Maybe? I don't know if they've changed that; you used to be able to register for up to five, I think.
13:00:27 <Phantom_Hoover> mroman, you might leave the country with all the data if they didn't, after all
13:01:34 <Deewiant> fizzie: Right, it does say 5 years. So one could postpone the registrar-obtaining for that long if one registers on September 4th.
13:02:29 <fizzie> I wonder if you can renew whenever, or only when you're close to expiring. My current expiration date seems to be March 10, 2017.
13:03:19 <fizzie> "Fi-verkkotunnuksen voi uusia aikaisintaan kuusi kuukautta ennen voimassaoloajan päättymistä."
13:04:17 <fizzie> So I can't do it until... September 10th, 2016? That's some good timing right there.
13:13:07 <mroman> Taneb: you could blog about Haskell stuff .
13:13:22 <Taneb> mroman, that was the intention with haskellhero
13:13:28 <Taneb> Just never actually bothered
13:14:07 <oren> maybe I'll eventually put some actual writing on my website (prose, rather than data). right now I can't be bothered
13:14:17 <mroman> That's not very hero-like :(
13:15:48 <oren> b_jonas: I have all the Latin-1 -A -B, and all IPA now
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13:16:07 <oren> the one on my website has 1200 chars roughtly
13:16:16 <oren> I am adding more in the editor
13:16:39 <mroman> so. removed google fonts.
13:16:45 <mroman> Don't want google tracking my visitors
13:16:52 <mroman> now the thing left is mathjax
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13:17:57 <mroman> but I can't host mathjax myself
13:18:05 <mroman> I don't have a lot of webspace
13:19:33 <oren> generate the images once then host them
13:20:19 <mroman> how many browsers support mathml?
13:21:42 <mroman> I might just use MathML
13:22:03 <oren> Firefox apparently has the most complete support
13:23:09 <oren> Ok, time for me to go to work.
13:23:53 <Taneb> mroman, Chrome does not, apparently
13:24:29 <fizzie> I like mathjax, but I just pulled it from their CDN. It's not like my website has users to worry about.
13:25:47 <Taneb> mroman, I've gone off the colour scheme for my esolangs page
13:26:47 <mroman> it's just that if you embed someone's javascript you leak the whole webpage content to them
13:27:43 <Jafet> Google already knows what your webpage looks like, anyway
13:28:08 <mroman> it's no problem unless you're a site that has a protected area
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13:28:25 <mroman> *your site has a protected area
13:28:44 <Jafet> I know a place, a place named fungot
13:28:45 <fungot> Jafet: i was thinking more the shirt depicted in the image file. it cheats.): resemblance of an application of something i wrote for making python-style generators. i needed the case fan was even the wrong size, they color
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13:29:46 <fizzie> Well, you do also leak knowledge of who's visiting your site.
13:29:46 <Jafet> I don't remember mathjax being 30MB, but if it's that large then using the CDN is a good idea (since people will only need to download it once).
13:30:22 <fizzie> Jafet: It's mostly the images.
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13:30:51 <mroman> the latest distribution zip is +30MB
13:31:15 <mroman> fizzie: True @leak who visits
13:31:24 <mroman> that is, if you have not disabled referrers
13:31:35 <fizzie> There's a hash-based URI scheme proposal, but it's not really implemented by anyone, I think.
13:31:38 <fizzie> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6920
13:31:47 <mroman> although the js could send information back as well
13:31:57 <mroman> basically it's risky to embed third-party javascript
13:33:19 <mroman> Don't some webpages do that to protect against csrf
13:33:26 <mroman> they generate links on the fly with one-time identifiers
13:33:30 <mroman> and then map it internally
13:33:33 <fizzie> Yes, but that's not what that is.
13:36:02 <fizzie> The RFC is pretty vague, but one thing it's been suggested to be used for is references to content that never changes.
13:38:03 <mroman> "never" is such a strong word
13:38:11 <mroman> what content on the internet literally never changes?
13:38:21 <fizzie> Well, I mean, if it's identified by a hash, it can't change.
13:38:45 <fizzie> You can of course change the place linking to it to point at something else.
13:38:54 <fizzie> If everyone referred to, say, JQuery version X as /.well-known/ni/sha-256/[hash], then browsers could in theory avoid retrieving it without having to pull it from some third-party place.
13:39:20 <mroman> browsers could cache it then locally
13:39:42 <fizzie> There was some talk of this on the Chrome mailing lists, but the general response was kind of negative.
13:40:42 <mroman> could you embed cache infos into the url?
13:40:54 <mroman> cache://example.com/documentThatNeverChanges
13:42:00 <mroman> instead of using the cache http means
13:42:48 <mroman> no that'd be stupid :(
13:43:27 <fizzie> There's an alternative proposal for addressing just the "you never know what the CDN will return" case, which would allow for something like <script src="https://some.cdn/whatever.js" integrity="sha256-[hash]"></script> and then the browser would only run it if the hash matches.
13:43:34 <fizzie> https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/subresourceintegrity/
13:43:55 <mroman> that's definitely a nice thing to have
13:44:15 <mroman> same thing for images or the like
13:44:22 <mroman> actually every external resource should have that
13:44:56 <mroman> but this is probably tricky
13:45:04 <mroman> since js usually injects dependencies
13:45:58 <Jafet> Presumably, you would audit that version of the script completely before using it
13:46:41 <mroman> Jafet: still, javascript can load further resources as it pleases
13:46:54 <fizzie> Well, you'd verify that the script has integrity="..." checks on all dependencies it pulls in, of course.
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13:47:49 <mroman> but you wouldn't do that
13:48:19 <fizzie> Or possibly you'd just be pragmatic and say "this is probably all good this time, I just don't want it to change", the way people do with SSH keys.
13:48:31 <fizzie> s/keys/host fingerprints/ whatever.
13:49:38 <Jafet> mroman: yes, you'd audit those too.
13:50:51 <Jafet> I guess you'd need the hashed-URI thing to load those reliably
13:50:58 <mroman> but it'd be a nice feature still.
13:52:22 <mroman> 5.3 Cross-origin data leakage
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13:54:35 <fizzie> Everything always has corner cases like that. :/
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13:55:54 <fizzie> There was the BREACH thing about just compressing with gzip, I think that was pretty nasty.
13:56:02 <fizzie> http://breachattack.com/resources/BREACH%20-%20SSL,%20gone%20in%2030%20seconds.pdf
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14:28:59 <b_jonas> oh great. code has a reformatting change that affects every function, so I can't just diff to see the real changes.
14:29:58 <b_jonas> I have to do a trickier diffing procedure
14:30:12 <b_jonas> oh great, it doesn't actually affect _every_ function
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15:33:04 <zzo38> You can make the kind of URI scheme that you can make integrity:<hashtype>-<hashcode>:<document-url>
15:34:02 <zzo38> Also the user should be allowed to add their own integrity checks as well as override ones specified by the page, but the page should also be allow to specify integrity checks too
15:34:54 <zzo38> (The user can override such as if they don't want additional scripts they add later on to run until the user has approved them, but continue to let the approved scripts to run.)
15:36:11 <zzo38> (If the user specifies integrity checks they can be applied to inline scripts too though)
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17:43:18 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/j < if anyone is interested
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17:52:18 <coppro> izabera: I think you forgot "uses bash as a scripting language" in "bugs"
17:53:05 <izabera> bash is fine if you know what you're doing
17:53:28 <izabera> i mean it has all kind of problems but which language doesnt
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18:08:30 <Phantom_Hoover> izabera, other, better scripting languages generally have fewer problems
18:09:26 <izabera> which problems are you thinking of?
18:09:41 <Taneb> izabera, an extra space can delete your entire file system
18:10:06 <izabera> there are two kind of problems: the "i don't know how to use bash so bash must be the worst language ever"
18:11:04 <coppro> Taneb: what extra space is that? prior to a / in rm -rf foo/*?
18:11:29 <Phantom_Hoover> other, better scripting languages don't make you hate them if you try to write a program in them without being familiar
18:12:24 <coppro> I always feel smarter when something works
18:12:31 <coppro> where I just feel dumber
18:12:36 <Taneb> coppro, yeah, that one, it came up in the steam linux client among others
18:12:45 <shachaf> Taneb: how did your solution to the haskell loop puzzle go
18:12:45 <izabera> from my understanding there's something called ghci
18:12:57 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.vgmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/son-this-is-bait.png
18:13:07 <Taneb> shachaf, I had a crazy idea involving existential constraints
18:14:19 <coppro> yeah that was ... a fun bug
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19:22:42 <HackEgo> [U+0259 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCHWA]
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21:08:36 <b_jonas> `? weighted companion cube
21:08:37 <HackEgo> weighted companion cube? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:08:42 <HackEgo> companion cube? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:11:10 <HackEgo> weighted companion? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:24:26 <nortti> `run \? wisdom | rainbow
21:24:27 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ?
21:26:05 <fizzie> Yay for cut-in-the-middle UTF-8.
21:26:48 * puckipedia notes that HackEgo also uses ZWSP protocol
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21:39:47 <b_jonas> you're just not wise enough, HackEgo
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21:55:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mathboy601 * New user account
21:59:19 <int-e> promising nickname...
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22:05:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfact]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43692&oldid=36748 * Mathboy601 * (+448) /* Just ><++ for brainf*** equivalence? */ new section
22:07:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfact]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43693&oldid=36759 * Mathboy601 * (+0) +++ makes 6, @ jumps to the 6!th character; 6! = 720
22:17:01 <HackEgo> hax0r/hax0r (see ¯\(°_o)/¯)
22:17:51 <shachaf> spot of the boily, governor?
22:18:57 * boily tries to porthello shachaf with that idiom, but to no avail
22:19:35 <boily> shachafellot of the myself? governachaf? spot shachof the still me?
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22:41:20 <oren> www.youtu.be/UgD5ZAKcIIE
22:42:59 <oren> (I copied that out of the filename. are youtu.be links permalinks?)
22:43:44 <boily> I believe you want the wwwless version. this link doesn't resolve.
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23:54:45 <HackEgo> 1/The 1 is just for disambiguation.
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23:58:18 <boily> it's doubly oerjany.
23:58:44 <shachaf> spot of the spot of the oerjan, governor?, governor?