00:00:29 <zzo38> (Actually for the clock hours it is IIII not IV for four o'clock)
00:00:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Got any Romans to back you up on that?
00:01:13 <zzo38> Unfortunately I do not have.
00:01:45 <quintopia> zzo38: actually the romans used both spellings interchangeably throughout much of their reign
00:02:27 <zzo38> For the clock it is IIII though
00:03:18 <oerjan> quintopia: my hunch is that it might be 1, _assuming_ there is no simple reason why a TM might always get stuck in a subgraph.
00:03:54 <oerjan> whose probabilty doesn't shrink to 0 as symbols and/or states grow.
00:04:50 <quintopia> oerjan: i thought 1 as well, because i was thinking that there should be a subgraph in which you COULD get stuck, given a particular encoding, which was universal
00:05:23 <oerjan> is there an official answer (or at least 0, 1, or neither)
00:05:54 <quintopia> it seems like a difficult question
00:06:04 <quintopia> i wouldn't expect an answer yet anyway
00:08:16 <oerjan> quintopia: actually my hunch is a combination of both. if it's low, it might be _either_ from getting stuck in something small non-TC, or from getting lost in a large graph with no TC sub-component
00:08:55 <quintopia> so...you think it's zero? or you think those two things are both unlikely?
00:09:14 <oerjan> i think that those two things are more than my brain can tackle at this time
00:09:32 <oerjan> they depend on graph stuff
00:10:24 <oerjan> and birthday-paradox things to ensure small subgraphs exist
00:10:50 <oerjan> hm maybe even ramsey numbers.
00:11:19 <shachaf> given a pair o' docs, what's the likelihood that they share the same birthday?
00:11:33 <shachaf> what's the likelihood that they share different birthdays?
00:12:41 <quintopia> then maybe they'll decide to share birthdays
00:12:53 <quintopia> i would if I were that good of a friend
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00:13:24 <quintopia> actually, i might even swap birthdays with a random stranger just for kicks
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00:14:06 <shachaf> if they weren't friends, why would we call them a pair o' docs?
00:14:12 <shachaf> i guess they could be business partners or something
00:14:17 <shachaf> but no, they're good friends
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00:25:21 <oren> Ok now I have most of IPA and all the Hebrew letters
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00:31:52 <tswett> Wisdom from the neural net:
00:31:55 <tswett> 15:18:53: <kmc> high on a subset of English instance policy?
00:32:14 <tswett> Man, I don't understand why subsets of English instance policy haven't been banned. They're a gateway drug.
00:32:36 <Gregor> oerjan, tswett: Idling is zen.
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00:37:46 <oerjan> Gregor: did you see my point about the logs? i think one more character width for the nickname might be nice
00:39:11 <oerjan> or whatever it takes to make http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2015-08-03#085542hooplavilion1 not wrap
00:39:29 <Gregor> It doesn't wrap for me...
00:39:48 <shachaf> Gregor: There's a small problem with `revert that could be fixed with a small patch.
00:40:26 <Gregor> Gregor: Just give me the patch then ;)
00:40:38 <shachaf> shachaf: I think fizzie has it.
00:40:41 <oerjan> Gregor: just the last > for me, although for the <hppavilion[1][0]> above it wraps before the [0]>
00:42:00 <Gregor> Well there's yer problem
00:42:16 <Gregor> How does it look in equally-useful Netscape Navigator 3?
00:42:28 <oerjan> i have no idea, since i do not have that installed.
00:42:47 <shachaf> is the joke "microsoft products are scow"?
00:43:01 <oerjan> i could try with Microsoft Edge ith
00:43:07 <Gregor> If "scow" is meant to be "shit", then yes?
00:43:23 <Gregor> scow (n): a wide-beamed sailing dinghy.
00:43:42 <shachaf> that is another meaning of the word
00:43:55 <shachaf> for example a garbage scow is a scow in that sense
00:44:53 <Gregor> It would be unusual to haul garbage on a dinghy.
00:44:59 <oerjan> shachaf: do you also think Gregor is being uncooperative today tdnh
00:45:16 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_scow
00:45:30 <shachaf> http://www.trekcc.org/1e/cardimages/errata/Radioactive-Garbage-Scow.jpg
00:59:25 <oerjan> Gregor: ok after seeing width: 10em in your style sheet i'm now wondering how it ever displays as much as it _does_. clearly i don't understand css...
01:01:38 <shachaf> no one understands css hth
01:05:51 <oren> Now I have all the IPA letters
01:06:37 <oren> what unicode block should I do next
01:06:51 <oren> (must be fixed-width)
01:13:23 <shachaf> what are your hebrew letters like
01:16:27 * oerjan thinks IE feels zippier now after upgrading to windows 10. also dehibernation seems faster.
01:16:51 <oerjan> which is good because yesterday other things seemed slow
01:17:40 <oren> shachaf: hold on I'll get a screenshot
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01:24:13 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/pic.png
01:25:20 <oren> that took some time because I had to write a program to output arbitrary unicode ranges in utf-8 first
01:26:58 <Aearnus> Is that what you were working on
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01:29:43 <oren> I have ASCII, Latin-1, Latin-A, IPA, Hebrew, Greek, Cyrillic, Box Drawing, some Arrows and Math Symbols, all the Block Elements, and all the Geometric Shapes
01:30:01 <notfowl> oren thats a movie hacker font right thete
01:30:33 <oren> I iz teh HAXXXORZ doesn't even look like a joke in this font
01:30:42 <HackEgo> U+1F473 MAN WITH TURBAN \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 b3 UTF-16BE: d83ddc73 Decimal: 👳 \ 👳 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F472 MAN WITH GUA PI MAO \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 b2 UTF-16BE: d83ddc72 Decimal: 👲 \ 👲 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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01:31:23 <oren> ah, the Offensive Japanese Stereotype of Indian and Chinese
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01:33:54 <oren> I'm getting another screenshot showing more of the coverage
01:35:18 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/latin.png
01:35:42 <oren> is that enough accents!!!?!?!?!!?!/
01:36:59 <oren> or does some crazy european language need Latin-B too
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01:43:15 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/greekipacyrnotdone.png
01:43:36 <oren> the coverage of ipa is basically done, but greek and cyrillic need work
01:46:58 <oren> but the next on my list is hankaku katakana
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02:06:49 <Aearnus> So, have you guys used m4 before
02:07:36 <oren> I seem to recall using it for... something... a long time ago
02:09:00 * oren reloads youtube
02:09:06 <oren> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
02:09:37 <oren> YOU BLEW IT UP, YOU MANIACS!
02:10:46 <shachaf> oren: that's going in the wrong direction hth
02:10:59 <shachaf> please draw RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE next
02:12:00 <oren> FUCK, STOP RUINING EVERYTHING WITH TRANSPARENT BULLSHIT
02:12:44 <oren> I WANT THE INTERNAT BACK THE WAY IT WAS IN 2002
02:20:05 <oren> IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK THAT PEOPLE KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEYARE
02:20:42 <Aearnus> I like my left aligned, white background courier new damnit!
02:25:48 <oren> Aearnus: that's the internet from 1994 about avtually
02:26:44 <oren> 2002 had CSS, it just didn't have all these pointless effects that hinder usablity
02:26:50 <Aearnus> oren: although honestly, with nice spacing and alignment, that courier new website can look perfectly fine
02:27:49 <oren> One site that has kept its usablity, with no bullshit, all these years is newgrounds.com
02:27:50 <Aearnus> The only time I've ever used illiterate CSS (as I've taken to calling it) is when I made an icon wobble when you mouse over it on for fun
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02:37:20 <oren> anyone on this channel who works for google: tell the youtube team to give me a "switch to the old player" button
02:42:11 <oren> I have html5 disabled. flash is great, it is mature
02:42:37 <oren> Flash has wroked fine for me since 1998
02:44:57 <oren> I remember when it was always called Shockwave Flash
02:46:24 <oren> .swf files were a mainstay of animation and gaming throughout my adolescence. I won't hear anybody badmouth it!
02:46:50 <shachaf> I wish this channel had a bit less yelling.
02:47:14 <pikhq> WOULD YOU PREFER IT IF I YELL
02:47:38 <oren> Windows XP! Shockwave Flash! Table Layouts! IFrames!
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02:48:58 <oren> There was nothing wrong with any of those from a USER's point of view. But they must be replaces becuase some shitwizards decided for us.
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02:49:57 <pikhq> The main reason that SWF in particular is dying is because it's a pile of insecure crap that Adobe can't be assed to fix.
02:51:23 <pikhq> Table layouts and iframes are just out of vogue. They're still perfectly valid HTML.
02:51:26 <oren> They could solve it easily by having a user-whitelist of urls that embedded SWFs can come from.
02:51:43 <pikhq> Yes, and Firefox has it.
02:51:55 <pikhq> I whitelist Flash on: Youtube
02:52:20 <pikhq> But, yeah, Adobe is basically trying to kill SWF.
02:52:46 <pikhq> Officially it isn't, but they're only begrudgingly doing any sort of improvements on it.
02:52:59 <oren> I should contribute to an effort to write a open-source swf player
02:53:36 <oren> assuming there is one
02:54:19 <pikhq> I believe the furthest along one is Shumway, which is a Mozilla project.
02:54:52 <oren> I'm too busy to actually write code, but do they have a patreon on something?
02:54:55 <pikhq> Shumway's kinda neat in that it's actually implementing SWF on top of HTML5 and Javascript.
02:55:31 <oren> So long as SWF's I downloaded in 2007 still play
02:55:59 <pikhq> The goal is to get it to do just that. Basically passing SWFs to it instead of a plugin.
02:56:22 <pikhq> (ATM it does that, but it's not at all the default and such)
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03:02:23 <coppro> the other, better, goal is to kill swfs
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03:22:20 <Sgeo> So Homestuck will keep working?
03:23:16 <oren> you know what, fuck this. I'm gonna watch my videos through vlc from now on, until youtube's player isn't shit
03:26:57 <oren> show the fucking progress bar while the video is playing, assholes
03:31:58 <oren> they don't, you have to keep moving your mouse
03:32:11 <oren> otherwise it disappears
03:32:41 <oren> also the progress bar no longer shows the runtime.
03:33:08 <oren> well in HTML5 anyway
03:33:34 <oren> luckily I know how to disable that
03:34:42 <oren> about:config, you turn off webm
03:35:17 <oren> presto, the better, but still ruined, youtube flah player
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03:41:11 <Aearnus> DID SOMEONE SAY TABLE LAYOUTS
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04:11:47 <oren> Hmm... where can I get a big zipfile full of all the ceritficate authorities' pems
04:16:59 <pikhq> I'd be happy to give you one containing all of them including mine if you give me a minute.
04:17:59 <pikhq> "Honest pikhq's Certificate Authority! Certificates right away, no questions asked or your money back!"
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04:20:58 <oren> shachaf: sure. See, this program doesn't let me specify not to verify the stupid https.
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04:22:01 <oren> but it does let me specify one or more pems to use as authorities
04:22:44 <oren> so if I have all the authorities, then that should let me connect to the damn thing
04:23:58 <oren> security may allow freedom of speech, but all I want right now is the freedom to NOt be secure
04:24:24 <pikhq> What distro are you on?
04:24:48 <oren> puppy linux. I am trying to use vlc to watch an internet stream
04:24:59 <pikhq> They typically have trusted roots somewhere in /etc...
04:25:18 <pikhq> Oh, that's made out of Ubuntu these days, isn't it?
04:25:57 <oren> I have an empty folder called /etc/ssl/certs. so now where do I download all the certs!?!?!
04:26:07 <pikhq> For fucks sake, it's empty?!?
04:26:54 <oren> can I torrent the cets from somewhere maybe
04:28:36 <oren> ok I found some pem files but I probably need a few hundred since I don't know which one I need
04:31:03 <oren> googled torrent ssl certs .pem files doesn't give me anything. shit. back when I needed .dlls that would have given me everything I needed!
04:32:11 <oren> ssl certs pem files collection rar did not give me a damn thing
04:33:50 <oren> Ooh I found a command to download the certificate for any url
04:35:27 <Sgeo> If that works the way I imagine that works, better not be MITMed when you do it
04:35:40 <Sgeo> Although first-connect MITM is always a risk anyway
04:35:53 <Sgeo> Oh, for a different reason
04:36:13 <Sgeo> (forcing http. But doing what you're doing can get you fake https)
04:39:11 <oren> fake https, real https, I want my damn videos
04:41:59 <oren> yeah this works. I first use the command to get the pem for the video link, then trust it directly with the vlc --http-ca
04:42:38 <oren> If I see the right video, then I haven't been MITMed
04:44:10 <shachaf> what if a few pixels are off
04:44:26 <shachaf> what if someone has subtly altered your reality
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04:46:07 <zzo38> If you want proper security you should agree the codes in person
04:47:12 <zzo38> Some webpages refuse to display without scripts on (sometimes to try to stop you from copying stuff to the clipboard or saving pictures or whatever), but Stylish can be used to fix this (the "Inspector" command can also be used to help with such thing)
05:01:04 <oren> ok I found a better mothod
05:01:44 <oren> you take http://curl.haxx.se/ca/cacert.pem and put it in .local/share/vlc/ssl/certs/
05:03:57 <oren> I need to remember where to find this megacert file in case I need it again
05:06:05 <Aearnus> http://prntscr.com/80lpzg cinnamon is good(tm)
05:09:21 <Aearnus> i illegally acquired my linux
05:16:15 <Hoolootwo> whatever it is, it's not cinnamon's fault unless it's doing something extraordinarily dumb
05:17:46 <Aearnus> it's probably the vm it's running in for some reason or another
05:21:49 <zzo38> What window managers any of you people who use Linux are using, and is it with a desktop environment too?
05:29:27 <Aearnus> zzo38: using xfce but I rather dislike it because gtk2 is meh
05:30:31 <zzo38> Aearnus: Maybe you should change it?
05:30:47 <zzo38> I removed the one that came with my computer and replaced it
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05:46:45 <Aearnus> zzo38: well, I installed xfce
05:47:04 <Aearnus> it's not bad, just not my favorite
05:48:23 <oren> I now have all the halfwidth katakana
05:53:45 <zzo38> You said because of gtk2, what way would you prefer?
05:54:01 <Aearnus> zzo38: well I'd like gtk3 support but w/e honestly
05:54:17 <Aearnus> I need a WM that works well on a laptop
05:54:28 <Aearnus> (maybe even one that works well with a touchscreen)
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05:57:17 <zzo38> What is the difference of gtk2 with gtk3?
05:57:46 <Aearnus> zzo38: gtk2 is just deprecated, that's all
05:58:52 <zzo38> I would prefer Athena widgets
06:11:12 <Aearnus> alright, I'm trying MATE, LXDE, and IceWM
06:14:32 <Aearnus> iceWM crashed my laptop, promising
06:15:48 <zzo38> I am using i3-wm, so that is another thing to try (although I am not using all of the other programs that commonly come with it, just the window manager and a custom status bar)
06:16:58 <zzo38> But do you have the other information of it?
06:18:01 <Aearnus> I'm not a fan of tiling WMs
06:18:09 <Aearnus> but maybe I should be, on my small screen space
06:18:19 <Aearnus> are there any that have emacs-esq keybinds?
06:20:57 <Aearnus> maybe I'll try catwm https://github.com/pyknite/catwm
06:24:26 <Aearnus> alright, i'll also try pekwm, fluxbox, openbox, i3, and awesome
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06:26:02 <myname> herbstluft can make empty frames. that works a lot better for me than what i3 does
06:27:40 <myname> i used pek before switching to tiling
06:30:30 <Aearnus> i guess i'll try herbsluft too
06:31:52 <Aearnus> ugh, i really don't like icewm
06:37:38 <Aearnus> pekwm is okay, it doesn't use the system menu which is frustrating though
06:39:23 <zzo38> I just load programs with the xterm (except for the xterm itself I can push Win+Enter to load it), so no menu is needed
06:40:25 <Aearnus> fluxbox is okay - better than pekwm, but it acts weird with my mouse
06:43:17 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
06:44:40 <Aearnus> oren: it looks a little blurry on windows
06:45:15 <Aearnus> http://prntscr.com/80mbc2 like, look at the @ sign
06:45:43 <oren> Ok wtf. That is some weird shit
06:46:04 <oren> I'm on linux, it doesn't look like that...
06:47:11 <oren> I should fuse the page to an image for people who don't have CSS3 fonts turned on
06:49:50 <Aearnus> i3 freezes on start, promising
06:54:34 <Aearnus> alright, right now, the listing is, from worst to best: icewm, fluxbox, pekwm, i3, openbox, lxde
07:01:01 <mroman> Lol. people doing "self-experiments" and try to live without a smartphone
07:01:33 <mroman> Obviously you can live without a smartphone. That's how we used to live 10 years ago.
07:01:55 <mroman> and only few people died 10 years ago because they had no smartphone
07:02:17 <zzo38> I do not have a smartphone
07:02:30 <myname> mroman: i guess you underestimate that
07:02:37 <mroman> myname: underestimate what?
07:03:12 <myname> it changes things a lot
07:03:24 <mroman> I bought my first smartphone not even a year ago
07:04:18 <mroman> and I usually leave it at home when I leave the house.
07:04:41 <mroman> I mean.. Smartphones are cool
07:04:43 <mroman> they have nice features.
07:04:54 <mroman> You can use the internet from the smartphone on your laptop
07:04:57 <mroman> which is mainly why I bought it
07:04:58 <myname> without it, it'd be bored to hell
07:05:11 <mroman> because in my new flat room there was no internet.
07:05:15 <zzo38> I don't like touchscreen either
07:05:26 <mroman> so I bought it with an internet subscription mainly for that purpose :)
07:05:29 <myname> well, my laptop practically doesn't work without a power plug
07:06:08 <mroman> a Smartphone has two good features
07:06:15 <myname> reading manga on android is just so comfortable <3
07:06:18 <mroman> Mobile Hot Spot/Tethering and google maps
07:06:41 <mroman> Google maps for navigation, yeah
07:06:54 <mroman> I have a stereo for playing music :)
07:07:15 <myname> won't help you if you're not at home
07:07:27 <mroman> why would I listen to music if I'm not at home?
07:07:39 <mroman> Why would you want to do that? :p
07:08:06 <mroman> If I'm at work I can listen music on my workplace laptop + headphones
07:08:27 <mroman> If I'm at home I can listen on my stereo
07:08:37 <mroman> the only thing left is "when travelling from home to work"
07:08:47 <zzo38> For music I have radio, CD, and computer. If I go to somewhere else, if they have radio then I can listen to the CBC radio. As it turns out I can also get music from my VCR, even when the TV is not turned on
07:09:24 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png
07:09:34 <oren> it is supposed to look like that
07:09:39 <myname> i'd like to hear music or podcasts while riding my bike, for example
07:10:36 <zzo38> Also, the CBC radio isn't only music, anyways
07:11:40 <mroman> but yeah... smartphones are pretty practical.
07:12:01 <Aearnus> the two best DE's in my opinion are lxde < xfce < mate
07:12:16 <mroman> I usually take it with when doing parkour
07:12:24 <mroman> mostly so I can call someone if I happen to have an accident :)
07:14:10 <myname> i'd use a dumbphone for that purpose
07:16:01 <mroman> In case it gets stolen?
07:17:21 <oren> parkour sounds like asking for a broken screen
07:17:51 <myname> it is cheaper in case it breaks during actions, it is less likely to break, the battery lasts way longer
07:20:09 <oren> I should use those characters to make an animation module for ncurses vlc
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07:21:57 <myname> i thought of making a ncurses chess using the chess figures in unicode
07:22:00 <oren> you know, like bars that go up and down to the music
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07:22:52 <oren> I need to improve symbol support in my font
07:23:14 <oren> I don't have chess only the four suits
07:24:48 <mroman> oren: you keep it in a backpack.
07:24:56 <myname> i guess you could make nice simulation games with unicode symbols
07:25:07 <myname> or something like sim city
07:25:12 <mroman> which you just put down somewhere near.
07:25:20 <mroman> It'd be pretty easy to steal.
07:25:54 <myname> mroman: so, in case of emergency yo crawl over rooftops to your backpack and call an ambulance?
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07:33:23 <Aearnus> after extensive testing, i've concluded
07:33:26 <Aearnus> that i want to go back to xfce
07:44:02 <mroman> It'd be pretty much illegal to jump over someone else's rooftop
07:44:22 <mroman> also most practitioners don't do rooftop things btw.
07:44:42 <mroman> also flat rooftops are rare in switzerland for example
07:45:43 <mroman> (Parkour itself is somewhat in a gray area)
07:46:13 <mroman> Technically you're only allowed to train on your own or public property.
07:46:23 <mroman> (or on someone else's with his permission)
07:47:01 <mroman> However, you will be frequently shooed away from public property by police or some government employee
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07:48:01 <mroman> if you fall on someones property, the owner is accountable
07:48:10 <mroman> which is the government for public properties
07:50:09 <mroman> and it looks like some US cities have a general ban on doing parkour o_O
07:50:29 <mroman> "Though no injuries have been reported, the city’s attorney is worried that someone will get hurt and the city will get sued."
07:50:40 <mroman> yeah, that's number one reason they don't want you to train on public property.
07:55:08 <mroman> and you obviously destroy public property
07:56:25 <mroman> handrails aren't usually designed to withstand too much horizontal force although thank god most are stable enough but in the long run you destroy them
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08:00:31 <oren> I have reached 1000 glyphs
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08:38:07 <mroman> if you travel into a country
08:38:13 <mroman> and step on a landmine
08:38:28 <mroman> health insurance won't pay :)
08:38:35 <Taneb> What if you glue the landmine to your foo
08:38:49 <mroman> also if you get hurt during an earthquake
08:39:02 <Taneb> Is this health insurance or travel insurance
08:39:34 <mroman> they also won't pay if a nuclear plant explodes
08:39:54 <mroman> they don't pay for damage caused by ionizing radiation
08:40:05 <Taneb> What about travel insurance
08:40:25 <mroman> Isn't that so you can get your money back if war breaks out in some country
08:40:49 <mroman> like if you book a year in advance, you can insure yourself in case you actually can't go on that vacation for some important reason
08:41:46 <fizzie> All travel insurances I've had have had a medical expenses component.
08:44:20 <mroman> Yeah I think the obligotary health insurance doesn't pay for stuff that happens in a foreign country
08:44:25 <oren> don't go to countries with landmines
08:44:27 <mroman> if you have to visit a hospital there you're fucked
08:46:11 <fizzie> The travel insurance provided by my employer also covers personal travel (and my wife, although only if she's travelling with me), but it's kind of limited to only cover medical/health stuff, not so much cancellation costs or lost luggage or that kind of stuff.
08:47:13 <mroman> ideally you have a better insurance than just the obligatory one
08:47:33 <mroman> if you go missing on a hike and they have to search you you're fucked with the regular one :D
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08:50:17 <mroman> I don't know this looks suspicious
08:50:48 <mroman> they list things under complementary insurances that should already be covered by the obligatory one.
08:53:32 <mroman> This is a legal jungle and information is spread across miles!
08:56:12 <mroman> law is good to fuck people over
08:56:19 <mroman> because it's totally asynchronous information
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08:56:52 <mroman> you can rely on people not knowing everything because they really don't know everything they should.
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09:06:18 <mroman> https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/anti-social-behaviour-crime-and-police-bill
09:07:41 <Taneb> mroman, that seems like it ought to be at least two different acts
09:11:02 <mroman> I can't find the actual law text anyway
09:11:17 <mroman> just 70 pages long documents with "impact assessments" "fact sheets" and stuff like that
09:11:30 <Taneb> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/12/contents/enacted/data.htm
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09:14:46 <mroman> "surrender of property"
09:15:03 <mroman> they can take away your smartphone for 48 hours :D
09:18:13 <mroman> "conduct that has caused, or is likely to cause, harassment, alarm or distress to any person,"
09:18:19 <mroman> that's a very broad definition.
09:19:11 <mroman> although I wouldn't know how to define it otherwise
09:20:55 <mroman> Taneb is causing me alarm.
09:21:09 <mroman> He invents weird things.
09:21:18 <Taneb> mroman, your accusation distresses and alarms me
09:22:23 <mroman> Isn't littering against the law anyway?
09:22:33 <mroman> I mean most of the stuff is probably already covered by some other law
09:22:46 <mroman> at least here. Littering is illegal.
09:23:14 <mroman> there are legally defined rest periods and things like that
09:23:57 <Taneb> I am not sure whether littering is illegal here
09:24:15 <mroman> Rather than making such a broad law you could just make a few specific laws
09:24:23 <mroman> such as prohibiting littering, prohibit noise after 10pm
09:25:46 <fizzie> "Anti-social behaviour" is a common sight in the UK per-neighbourhood crime maps https://www.police.uk/ has.
09:25:50 <mroman> if teens go on a vandalism streak that surely is already covered by some "you may not damage an other one's property"-law
09:26:18 <mroman> "Find your neighbourhood"
09:26:34 <mroman> "Gosforth and great park"
09:27:03 <fizzie> It lags by a few months.
09:27:12 <fizzie> "Bicycle theft (1): Includes the taking without consent or theft of a pedal cycle"
09:27:34 <mroman> 101 were anti-social behaviour
09:27:59 <Taneb> mroman, I think I used to live in Gosforth
09:28:01 <mroman> that's a lot of sex offences for a month though
09:28:17 <fizzie> "Sex offences", IIRC, include things like domestic violence.
09:28:34 <Taneb> mroman, the Gosforth in Newcastle that is
09:29:03 <mroman> I lived there for two weeks :p
09:30:06 <Taneb> mroman, you realise that it is dangerously (25 miles) close to Hexham?
09:30:55 <mroman> Why is that dangerous?
09:31:31 <Taneb> Because one day you might go out for a drive and wind up in Hexham
09:31:48 <mroman> I don't think I'll ever be back in gosforth
09:31:55 <mroman> It was a two week language stay
09:32:22 <Taneb> Currently I am in "York City and East"
09:32:35 <fizzie> Two weeks, and you're already sure you'll never be back? Must be a horrible place.
09:33:06 <Taneb> mroman, when I was very small my gran used to push me around Gosforth Park
09:33:38 <mroman> fizzie: I mean I'm pretty certain I'll never leave switzerland ever again.
09:33:59 <mroman> but it's very unlikely that I wind up in Gosforth again
09:34:01 <Taneb> I won't leave Switzerland for a very long time
09:34:12 <Taneb> Largely because I am not in Switzerland and have little reason to visit
09:34:27 <fizzie> I think I've left Switzerland twice already.
09:34:36 <mroman> We have Cities in Switzerland.
09:34:44 <mroman> like any other country :D
09:35:00 <Taneb> I don't think, eg, the Vatican has cities plural
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09:35:24 <mroman> Vatican isn't a real country *blasphemy*
09:35:39 <mroman> and it has a huge crime rate
09:36:19 <mroman> it has the highest crime rate in the world
09:37:22 <myname> http://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-idea-theyre-using-the-internet/
09:37:22 <mroman> and the monarch is some guy that speaks to some other imaginative guy
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10:24:30 <Taneb> Union-Find data structure is really interesting
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11:02:29 <mroman> final int i = Interpreter.builtins.get(s);
11:02:36 <mroman> how can this throw nullpointerexception?
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11:07:02 <myname> in java, everything can throw a nullpointer exception
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11:09:21 <mroman> only if you dereference a NullPointer
11:09:52 <mroman> get() usually doesn't throw NullPointerException
11:10:07 <mroman> however, unboxing a NullPointer will
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12:46:15 <oren> I'm getting quite adept at copypasting video links into VLC
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13:01:53 <oren> seems like Latin B is mostly more IPA
13:04:44 <b_jonas> I just got an internal error that's supposed to be really impossible
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13:25:26 <Taneb> My spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "underdocumented"
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13:30:31 <b_jonas> Taneb: it's probably set to some language other than English
13:30:47 <Taneb> It seems to recognize every word in this sentence
13:31:23 <Taneb> So I suspect it is set to English, just is missing a few words, and counts ' as a wordbreak
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14:09:40 <tswett> Wisdom from the neural net: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_crap
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14:32:20 <Melvar> ( filter [| fst == snd |] [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
14:32:21 <idris-bot> [(42, 42)] : List (Integer, Integer)
14:34:00 <Melvar> ( filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
14:34:00 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type:
14:34:00 <idris-bot> Prelude.List.filter, Data.VectType.Vect.filter
14:34:15 <Melvar> ( List.filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
14:34:15 <idris-bot> When checking an application of function Prelude.List.filter:
14:34:15 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type:
14:34:15 <idris-bot> Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>=
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15:07:35 <Melvar> ( filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
15:07:35 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type:
15:07:35 <idris-bot> Prelude.List.filter, Data.VectType.Vect.filter
15:07:42 <Melvar> ( List.filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
15:07:42 <idris-bot> When checking an application of function Prelude.List.filter:
15:07:42 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type:
15:07:42 <idris-bot> Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>=
15:08:15 <Melvar> ( filter (do pure $ !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
15:08:15 <idris-bot> [(42, 42)] : List (Integer, Integer)
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15:12:35 <myname> i don't get why you are doing do in the first place
15:23:20 <Melvar> ( filter (pure $ !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
15:23:20 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type:
15:23:20 <idris-bot> Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>=
15:23:39 <Melvar> myname: I need it to anchor the !.
15:24:08 <Melvar> Because I’m having fun.
15:24:18 <myname> it just looks too much like haskell
15:24:33 <Melvar> ( filter ((==42) . fst) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)]
15:24:33 <idris-bot> [(42, 42)] : List (Integer, Integer)
15:25:05 <myname> but it doesn't use monads
15:25:17 <myname> that may be a downside, depending on what you like
15:25:26 <Melvar> myname: So anyway, with bang bindings the “do x” ≡ “x” rule no longer holds.
15:27:12 <Melvar> A nice example is that “forever (putStrLn !getLine)” is a yes program, and “forever (do putStrLn !getLine)” is a cat program.
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15:32:53 <Melvar> ( [| sum / (cast . length) |] [1,4,6]
15:34:37 <Melvar> myname: I recently added the unwrapped reader monad to my BotPrelude, and am now having fun with ways to abuse it.
15:35:08 <myname> i don't really know idris :/
15:35:41 <Melvar> [| |] are idiom brackets, which do an applicative application (they add pure and (<*>)).
15:36:28 <Melvar> So “[| sum / (cast . length) |]” desugars to “pure (/) <*> sum <*> (cast . length)”.
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18:48:51 <Filystyn> helo i need help with brainfuk
18:49:37 <Filystyn> brainfuck on this site http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/impl/interp/i.html?b=&i=123&o= blocks in inf loop when i ,[>,-]<.
18:51:24 <Slereah__> You always switch to the next cell
18:51:33 <ais523> the loop should end if you get ASCII 1 as input
18:51:38 <ais523> because you do ,- just before the end of the loop
18:51:48 <ais523> probably you haven't been giving any code 1 as input
18:51:59 <ais523> Slereah__: on most browsers, you can't
18:52:21 <Filystyn> stop ok i see you are going to help
18:52:21 <fizzie> For the record, the implementation is an EOF == 0 one.
18:52:52 <ais523> well, what are you trying to do at a larger level
18:53:13 <Filystyn> i want to read chars untill i find char with value 10
18:53:16 <ais523> I'm finding it hard to help because you seem to have a mental model of what's going wrong, but I don't know what that model is
18:53:46 <ais523> so you'd want something like ,----------[>,----------] for the read loop
18:53:53 <ais523> to test for 10, you have to subtract 10 then test against 0
18:54:12 <ais523> what do you want to do after you get your newline? (I'm assuming this is an implementation where newline = 10, it normally is)
18:54:28 <Filystyn> basicly go back and read last char i think i see the problem now
18:55:01 <Filystyn> ok i seem to get what i was doing wrong
18:57:15 <Filystyn> i accualy had working code but i thought that if i decrement zero it stays zero so i did not make new line but simply assumed that at end of output it will stop
18:58:41 <ais523> decrementing zero gives you -1, which on many implementations is equivalent to 255 (implementations which work like that are called "8-bit wrapping")
18:59:04 <ais523> but hardly any implementations adjust -1 to 0
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19:29:55 <Melvar> The usual brainfucks don’t have any runtime errors to speak of, do they?
19:30:15 <ais523> Melvar: < off the LHS of the tape is sometimes considered a runtime error
19:30:25 <ais523> although in some implementations, it extends the tape to the left
19:30:54 <Melvar> Oh right, there’s ones with non-bidirectionally-infinite tapes.
19:31:24 <ais523> !bf8 <+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
19:52:34 <tswett> Why haven't I created that Haskell EDSL for brainfuck yet?
19:53:40 <tswett> Maybe it's because I have lots of better things to do.
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20:23:05 <b_jonas> hehe. a free software source readme describes what you need to build from source. it says “a reasonable C compiler (gcc, Visual Studio, etc.)”
20:23:22 <b_jonas> they apparently count Visual Studio as a reasonable C compiler.
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20:23:45 <b_jonas> I'd say “a reasonable C compiler (gcc, etc.) or Visual Studio
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20:32:14 <tswett> Wisdom from the neural net:
20:32:16 <tswett> 09:59:42: <lambdabot> CYUL 231320Z 07006KT ESCABON SCT069 BKN022 B00/27 M19/M09 Q1000 RMK SC1SC0AC2 SCT038 BKN042 14/04 Q1005 RMK SCT000 M02/M00 Q1096 RMK BIN019 SCT000 03/03 Q1020 RMK R00 NOSIG
20:32:46 <tswett> b_jonas: what do you find unreasonable about VS?
20:34:56 <MDude> I tried using VS once and got it to go into some weird state where it was automatcially routing stdout to a file for no reason.
20:35:35 <ais523> VS has so much persistent configuration, it makes configuring it very hard
20:35:53 <ais523> I prefer the mechanism whereby you use command-line options every time (normally automated via shellscripts or makefiles)
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21:05:24 <zzo38> I would have prefer to write something like "a C compiler (known to work with: GCC, Visual Studio)"
21:06:48 <MDude> "requires: an unreasonable C compiler (must put empty cartons back in the freezer)"
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21:07:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: yeah, that may be nicer
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21:52:12 <oerjan> <mroman> damn I hate this. <-- clearly the only insurance worth having is one that insures you against not having the right insurances.
21:52:56 <oerjan> @tell mroman <mroman> damn I hate this. <-- clearly the only insurance worth having is one that insures you against not having the right insurances.
21:53:18 <oerjan> like in this case, an insurance against swatting due to obnoxious idleness
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21:56:13 <Melvar> ( [| sum / (cast . length) |]
21:56:14 <idris-bot> prim__divFloat (Prelude.List.List instance of Prelude.Foldable.Foldable, method foldr (\meth => \meth => prim__addFloat meth meth) 0.0 r)
21:56:14 <idris-bot> (prim__toFloatBigInt (toIntegerNat (length r))) : List Double -> Double
21:56:41 <Melvar> ( [| sum / (cast . length) |] [1,3,6,8]
21:58:07 <Melvar> The prims sometimes have ridiculous names.
21:58:45 <fizzie> Oh, it's like (toFloat)(BigInt).
21:58:49 <shachaf> oerjan: can i buy swatting insurance twhib
21:58:59 <fizzie> Not (something else)to(FloatBigInt).
21:59:39 <Melvar> Furthermore, only the float and string conversions are named like that. The ones among integertypes are {sext,zext,trunc}$typeA_$typeB .
22:00:30 <Melvar> But for float and string you have {to,from}{Float,Str}$othertype .
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22:02:29 <Melvar> This is related to the way they’re automatically generated; on the compiler-internal type there’s an algebraic data type representing these, and some constructors take IntTy or ArithTy arguments, and the float and string conversions are other constructors than the conversions among integers.
22:02:36 <shachaf> `le/rn twhib/the world holds its breath
22:03:26 <Melvar> On the other hand, toIntegerNat is not a prim, and I can’t fathom the thought process that went into its name.
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22:19:20 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't know, i'm not in the insurance business
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22:28:14 <b_jonas> ICFP contest starts in 2.5 days
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23:03:20 <HackEgo> pineapple/Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable.
23:03:32 <HackEgo> Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation.
23:03:50 <boily> I can't decide which one is my favourite.
23:05:38 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/therefore//' wisdom/pineapple
23:06:28 <boily> I think chess is better, don't you think so?
23:08:19 <shachaf> WHEREAS, pineapple is a hybrid species descended from multiple ancestors; WHEREAS, these ancestors include spinach and wild ivy; NOW, THEREFORE, pineapple is declared to be a class 6 vegetable.
23:08:37 <shachaf> boily: what do you think about diplomacy twhib
23:08:46 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable.
23:09:07 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/pineapple # thoerjan
23:10:04 <oerjan> shachaf: you were saved from a swat only by my network disconnecting hth
23:10:40 <shachaf> oerjan: A swat for forgetting to remove a space?
23:11:01 <shachaf> spot of the tyranny, governor?
23:18:33 <boily> what kind of diplomacy? and wherefore so much hate for the there therefore?
23:19:30 <shachaf> and i don't know why oerjan is such a h8r hth
23:19:32 <boily> never played, definitely in an advantageous position on my gaming checklist.
23:19:43 * boily tries to ungrump oerjan
23:20:03 * boily applies ancient Chinese techniques on oerjan
23:20:12 <boily> *gasp*! he has updated?
23:20:36 <shachaf> i'm playing diplomacy online with some folks
23:20:56 <boily> gghghghghbhg flblblblblblbl...
23:32:11 <oerjan> shachaf: betray everyone hth
23:34:45 <oerjan> boily: actually, i don't see anything that's significantly more broken, once i got rid of that Edge thing. and it starts up much faster after hibernation.
23:35:31 <oerjan> oh and i had to redownload a touchpad driver
23:35:43 <oerjan> that was annoying, but it was annoying before anyway
23:35:52 <shachaf> spot of the hibernation, governor?
23:36:00 <oerjan> with some luck it will now work properly.
23:36:02 <shachaf> I have no idea if it works.
23:36:19 <oerjan> shachaf: i do it all the time. also _ordinary_ reboot definitely got a bit slower now.
23:36:43 <oerjan> (er my 2nd last comment was about the touchpad driver)
23:37:25 <oerjan> i've had no problems with hibernation itself in a long time. maybe not since my previous laptop.
23:37:32 <shachaf> You redownload your touchpad driver all the time?
23:37:54 <oerjan> no, but it had a tendency of dying on unsuspending
23:38:17 <oerjan> hm i guess that technically was a hibernation problem
23:38:49 <oerjan> it got less annoying when i found out how to reset it without rebooting.
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