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00:17:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44235&oldid=44228 * Timwi * (+207) Example: Hello, World!
00:18:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44236&oldid=44235 * Timwi * (+16)
00:21:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44237&oldid=44236 * Timwi * (+1) /* Source code */
00:22:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44238&oldid=44237 * Timwi * (-3) /* Source code */
00:24:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44239&oldid=44238 * Timwi * (+3) /* Control flow */
00:25:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44240&oldid=44239 * Timwi * (+2) /* Memory model */
00:31:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44241&oldid=44240 * Timwi * (+84) /* Memory model */ Grammar/phrasing
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00:33:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44242&oldid=44241 * Timwi * (+39) Backticks are (functionally) stripped too
00:35:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44243&oldid=44242 * Timwi * (+112) The ` (backtick) is not a command, but an interpreter feature, so I’m taking the liberty to move it to the bottom
00:36:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44244&oldid=44243 * Timwi * (-1) /* Arithmetic */
00:39:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44245&oldid=44244 * Timwi * (+13) /* I/O */
00:42:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44246&oldid=44245 * Timwi * (+171) /* Control flow */
00:43:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44247&oldid=44246 * Timwi * (+8) /* Memory manipulation */
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00:44:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44248&oldid=44247 * Timwi * (+1) /* Memory manipulation */
00:45:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44249&oldid=44248 * Timwi * (+6) /* External Resources */
00:45:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44250&oldid=44249 * Timwi * (-1)
00:53:27 <fizzie> I've put in (numbered) footnotes with [*1], but I've appended them on the same line, after a double-space.
00:53:38 <fizzie> In retrospect, the numbering isn't very useful, because I've only ever had one.
01:03:24 <Phantom_Hoover> "To the best of the author's knowledge it's the first ever 2D language where the instruction pointer moves on a hexagonal grid."
01:03:38 <Phantom_Hoover> for god's sake man you're not going to win an award for it
01:05:07 <Sgeo> I didn't need any award for being the first (as far as I know) to reach MAX_FLOAT in SL
01:12:07 <MDude> I know I saw some art project that looked like an instruction pointer moving along a hexagonal grid, but I'm pretty sure it was taken down.
01:12:47 <MDude> For some reason the author was frustrated at people thinking it might actually be a nice idea for anything but a simple art demo.
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01:33:00 <hppavilion[1]> I was goin to say: "You mean \"s/\/\/\/\//\/\/\//\"?"
01:33:32 <lifthrasiir> of course, I really meant s/s\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\/\\\\//
01:35:48 <hppavilion[1]> What other things are there besides s/a/b/c notation?
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01:48:41 <adu> what's up?
01:49:41 <adu> did I just say hi to a bot?
01:49:54 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], there are more things on heaven and earth than s/a/b/c notation, if that helps
01:50:50 <adu> hppavilion[1]: tell adu that he's talking to himself again
01:52:33 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: But is there, for example, g notation?
01:53:25 <Phantom_Hoover> s/something/else/g comes from sed so look through docs for that i guess
01:54:57 <adu> hppavilion[1]: s/ is so Perl5, you should learn Perl6
01:55:18 <adu> Perl6 is so much better
01:55:57 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], well that just comes from ed, which nobody uses any more
01:56:11 <Phantom_Hoover> grep is short for g/re/p where re is a regex you want to search for
01:56:21 <adu> Perl6 regexes are impossible to "import" into other languages, because Perl6 regexes are just functions
01:56:46 <adu> so I don't think they're going to be as popular as Perl5 regexes, which are just strings that get compiled
01:59:18 <adu> Perl5: "..." ~~ s/a/b/g
01:59:20 <adu> Perl6: "...".subst(/a/, /b/, :g)
02:00:57 <zgrep> adu: We all happen to be bots. You've accidentally stumbled into the conspiracy. You're now part of it. Can you be trusted?
02:01:40 <adu> No, because a bot would say yes, and I'm trying to be more human, so, no.
02:04:31 <zgrep> Everybody, we must deal with this as soon as possible. We must turn traffic lights red right before adu reaches them, we must delay adu's emails by up to an entire week, we must periodically create blackouts at adu's living area, we must introduce minute annoyances into adu's life until adu complies.
02:05:31 <adu> oh, I will comply
02:05:36 <adu> but I can't be trusted
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02:16:20 <zgrep> Oh. In which case false alarm.
02:16:34 <zgrep> Back to planning a take-over of the world.
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03:02:02 <oren_> Plan! ꜠꜡ꜢꜣꜤꜥꜦꜧꜨꜩꜪꜫꜬꜭꜮꜯꜰꜱꜲꜳꜴꜵꜶꜷꜸꜹ₠₡₢₣₤₥₦₨₩₫₭₮₯₰₱₲₳₴₵⌒⌓⌔⌕⌖⌗⌘⌢⌣⌤⌥⌦⌧⌨⌫⌬ℌℐℑℒℓ℔℗℘ℛℜ℟℡℣℥Ω℧ℨ℩ℬℭ℮ℯ
03:03:12 <oren_> there, my daily spam of unicode characters to the channel ^H...^H showcase of characters I've added
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03:05:48 <mauris> adu: wouldn't that be .subst(/a/, 'b', :g)
03:06:08 <mauris> hppavilion[1]: there is y/// in sed, which just does the same thing as "tr"
03:06:12 <adu> mauris: oops, yes
03:06:33 <mauris> e.g. y/abc/xyz/ would turn all a's into x's, b's into y's, c's into z's.
03:07:54 <adu> mauris: so you know Perl6?
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04:14:59 <mauris> don't even need the g flag, it always operates everywhere in the line(s) specified
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04:46:00 <hppavilion[1]> <zgrep> Back to planning a take-over of the world.
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05:45:52 <hppavilion[1]> I've decided to make an improved (more useful) derivative of thue
05:46:27 <hppavilion[1]> Thube ("Thoo Bee") is what I'm currently calling it
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06:02:32 <myname> can you at least do stdin at the same time?
06:02:46 <myname> or read from two files
06:03:19 <hppavilion[1]> There's a VM command to read a file and put its content as a null-terminated string at a certain index
06:03:37 <hppavilion[1]> There's also a command to get its size and put /that/ at a certain index
06:05:29 <hppavilion[1]> myname: So yes, though the program does pause while the file is read
06:07:09 <hppavilion[1]> bender|: Also, how does dynamic linking work? I'm yet to understand it
06:07:50 <hppavilion[1]> I have a rough idea, but it's probably entirely wrong (subroutine setupping commands, IMPORT command for a dll)
06:11:03 <bender|> I hope you understand how static linking works?
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06:12:06 <hppavilion[1]> I should've realized there was static linking given that we have to specify that linking is dynamic xD
06:14:57 <bender|> Dynamic linking is not that hard. What I do in my VM is that I've my compiler generate position-independent code for the dynamic library. And there's headers in the library binary which points to the relative address of functions, I load the library into the memory by allocating executable pages, and putting it there. When there's a call to a function in the dynamic library, I get the address from a table created from the function table
06:14:57 <bender|> in the library during loading.
06:15:07 <bender|> of course, there's probably better ways to do it.
06:15:41 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm talking about static linking, not dynamic linking)
06:15:54 <bender|> it's basically linking object files into an executable.
06:17:08 <myname> go write some assembly
06:17:52 <hppavilion[1]> What's good for an executable format? I'm currently using a null-terminated ID string that says what version of what subVM to use, followed by a flat binary.
06:18:20 <hppavilion[1]> For archive format, I'm going to use a .tar.gz with a different file extension (because that's acceptable, apparently)
06:22:38 <hppavilion[1]> So object files, from a preliminary overview, appear to be files that contain variables and subroutines, etc. with some kind of mapping as to what is called what
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10:24:29 <fizzie> According to the operator providing this mobile Internet connection, archive.org "contains content that isn't suitable for under 18s" and is therefore blocked. (It's a Three pay-as-you-go deal, and there were done extra steps involved in disabling the filter.)
10:25:04 <Jafet> Well, I'm sure they're right.
10:25:38 <fizzie> Yes, probably something in there isn't suitable for anyone.
10:27:44 <int-e> . o O ( send them an exasperated email explaining how you found porn on google.com and why they don't block that as well. )
10:28:25 <int-e> (unfortunately, it's likely to end up being read by someone without a sense of humor)
10:29:15 <int-e> incidentally, when did Googe introduce "moderately safe search" as a default?
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10:53:19 <lambdabot> oerjan said 22h 9m 55s ago: <boily> and here I was thinking that int-e was oerjan's good twin. or at least the less evil one. <-- i'm just so evil i need two good twins hth
11:02:16 <boily> @ask oerjan you're so evil, are you also into cats?
11:12:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44251&oldid=44250 * Martin Büttner * (+336) clarify specification about debugging feature.
11:26:39 <hkgit03> Am I the only one who accidently reads 'lambdadot' every single time?
11:26:49 <hkgit03> since I first came here two years ago
11:29:01 <Taneb> I can't talk for long, I'm going to have a shower then do the old buy-up-all-the-shirts-in-a-charity-shop-so-I-don't-have-to-do-laundry trick
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11:29:46 <hkgit03> so you don't have any shirts after shower until they're delivered
11:30:14 <boily> speaking of showers, it's time.
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11:31:28 <Taneb> hkgit03: the trick is to do this when you have one shirt spare
11:35:53 <mroman> How do you prevent double validation in applications?
11:36:07 <mroman> You have a model, with setFoo(...), setBar(..), setFooBar(...)
11:36:19 <mroman> each method will perform an input validation and throw an IllegalFormatException
11:36:37 <mroman> But now you're in the controller and handling user input
11:37:12 <mroman> if you wrap all set calls into a try block you can't tell the user which thing failed
11:37:21 <mroman> but wrapping every set call into a seperate try block looks nasty/bloaty as fuck
11:37:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hexagony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44252&oldid=44231 * Timwi * (+267)
11:37:39 <mroman> and by doing isValidFoo() in the controller
11:37:53 <mroman> you are actually doing double validation since setFoo will validate it another time as well
11:38:48 <mroman> you could wrap all set calls in a try-block and if you catch an illegalformatexception then call each isValid method to determine what exactly went wrong.
11:39:10 <mroman> but you'd still be double validating some inputs
11:39:11 <hkgit03> I don't think I get your problem but couldn't the method getCause() help?
11:39:41 <mroman> You mean the model sets an internal flag before throwing the exception?
11:39:55 <mroman> which says which input was invalid?
11:40:10 <hkgit03> If I understand it correctly it returns an.. .erm...... http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Throwable.html#getCause()
11:40:34 <hkgit03> well it returns a Throwable
11:40:55 <mroman> cause is just another exception
11:41:16 <mroman> you use causes when you wrap low-level exceptions into high-level exceptions
11:41:34 <mroman> such as DBException caused by an IOException caused by an FileNotFoundException or whatever
11:42:03 <mroman> hkgit03: I'm trying to get rid of double validating user inputs
11:45:07 <mroman> http://codepad.org/YecoVAYY <- that's double validation
11:47:54 * hkgit03 realizes he isn't very good at oo
11:53:05 <hkgit03> mroman: isn't it possible to write your own exception class extending IllegalFormatException?
11:53:36 <hkgit03> which then includes an internal state (if IllegalFormatException does not already have that in some way)
11:56:12 <hkgit03> or implements Throwable instead of extending IllegalFormatException (since the latter does not add own fields or methods, only inherits)
11:56:19 <mroman> You can define your own exceptions, yes.
11:56:54 <hkgit03> I didn't mean to ask if it's possible, I meant to ask if it makes sense in your case
11:58:26 <mroman> You'd need one FormatException for every model.
11:59:14 <mroman> unless you use a List<String> invalidFields; or something
11:59:44 <mroman> that wouldn't work anyway :)
12:00:07 <mroman> well if you wrap all set calls in a single try block
12:00:16 <mroman> you wouldn't notice if two fields are invalid
12:00:25 <mroman> because it'd abort at the first one throwing an exception
12:00:34 <hkgit03> I thought that was exactly what you wanted
12:01:05 <hkgit03> I give up. I'll delve into oo and java when I have more time
12:01:44 <hkgit03> *shrug* thanking a noob. Okay. You're welcome I guess
12:07:19 <bender|> you guys suck. c# uber alles 4 life. (obligatory /sarcasm).
12:07:41 <mroman> I'm actually using PHP.
12:07:54 <mroman> but the actual language doesn't really matter
12:08:02 <mroman> it's a design problem, not a language problem :D
12:09:00 <hkgit03> are you using a specific framework? (since you're using mvc)
12:09:15 <hkgit03> which, then, I would not know because I never used php
12:09:28 <mroman> No, I'm doing oldschool php from scratch :D
12:10:02 <mroman> meaning I write objects as classes that represent tables
12:10:44 <mroman> which all have update(), insert() and byField() methods
12:17:20 <mroman> like $m = new Model(); $m->byId(0); $m->setFoo('foo'); $m->update();
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13:01:16 <fizzie> "Please note that we are having three new desks installed opposite you -- and unfortunately there will be some disruption to you. REWS will need to swing desk 496E out of the window and --"
13:06:21 <Taneb> Well, that was an unsuccessful charity shop raid
13:06:53 <Taneb> Hexham has a lot of charity shops. None of the ones I visited had much in the way of men's medium t-shirts
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13:18:37 <HackEgo> Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico
13:24:54 <HackEgo> vatican is the super-rich part of italy. Sadly, it has a huge crime rate. You will be robbed.
13:25:05 <mroman> hexham sounds much nicer.
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13:45:56 <hkgit03> I will create a Gödel machine in brainfuck with ed
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14:15:15 <hkgit03> What is internally more efficient in C? for(int i=0;i<a;i++){} or for(int i=a;i;i--){}?
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14:25:56 <hkgit03> The unassembled compilation output does not differ in the amount of commands, so I guess it depends on the hardware implementation on the cpu
14:29:20 <hkgit03> depends especially on the runtime difference between jle and jne
14:29:43 <hkgit03> I guess jne would be more efficient, but I really don't know
14:33:38 <FreeFull> hkgit03: The compiler might not be able to reorder the former into the latter depending on the contents of the loop
14:34:30 <hkgit03> presumed the loop is empty
14:35:56 <FreeFull> Then the compiler will optimise it out entirely
14:36:32 <hkgit03> In the assembly process? Sure?
14:36:41 <hkgit03> Cause the unassembled output differs, as I said
14:37:43 <FreeFull> The assembly code itself is final
14:37:49 <FreeFull> So you must have not passed any -O flags
14:38:26 <FreeFull> C itself doesn't specify which would be more efficient, but for(int i=a;i;i--){} typically will be more efficient on real architectures
14:40:14 <FreeFull> Checking if a register became zero due to the decrement is very cheap
14:53:29 <hkgit03> no, jne 0, because it has to be a loop
14:55:03 <mroman> JNE 0; is a potential endless loop
14:55:14 <mroman> since JNE doesn't modify any flags.
14:55:40 <hkgit03> which one does jz modify then?
14:56:58 <mroman> jumps generally don't modify flags
14:57:34 <hkgit03> I thought you were implying DEC;JZ could not be a potential infinite loop
14:58:07 <mroman> foo: DEC AX; JNZ foo; always terminates
14:58:12 <mroman> If that's your question.
14:58:46 <hkgit03> no it was not but thx anyway
14:58:59 <mroman> and JNE is the same thing as JNZ
14:59:24 <mroman> it's the same instruction with different names.
14:59:26 <hkgit03> jne 0 is, yes. I wasn't sure if there was a thing as jnz
15:00:14 <mroman> also there's the LOOP instruction
15:00:23 <mroman> so if you happen to have the counter in CX
15:01:52 <mroman> and it will by exactly one cycle faster!
15:02:13 <mroman> since DEC is a 2 cycle instruction and conditional jumps take 16 cycles
15:02:18 <fizzie> I don't think it's quite that straightforward any more.
15:02:38 <mroman> There's only one true processor
15:04:14 <mroman> debugging code by attaching a oscilloscope to debug pins.
15:04:57 <mroman> Too young to have lived in the good old days
15:05:03 <mroman> but old enough to know what the good old days were
15:05:24 <mroman> and old enough to be taught the good old days in school
15:05:31 <fizzie> Re the "always terminates", note that e.g. GCC -O3 will turn for (int i = 0; i >= 0; i++) f(); into "foo: call f; jmp foo", eliminating the test entirely, because it can be assumed to be always true.
15:05:37 <mroman> because schools lack behind
15:05:43 <fizzie> (Since overflowing a signed int is undefined behavior.)
15:05:57 <mroman> yet, some still use 8086!
15:06:36 <hkgit03> so overflowing a signed int could eat my laundry
15:07:40 <mroman> I'm a huge fan of the ostrich approach
15:08:06 <mroman> I ignore problems until they become frequent.
15:08:15 <mroman> and overflows happen rather infrequently.
15:09:54 <mroman> once they are frequent you check if you have the budget to fix them
15:10:08 <mroman> if you don't have the budget you continue playing the ostrich game.
15:10:29 <hkgit03> being an ostrich doesn't increase budget
15:10:32 <mroman> with the right budget you can actually buy a real ostrich
15:10:52 <mroman> they are majestic living birds that can't fly.
15:11:31 <mroman> and you can race them.
15:11:42 <hkgit03> birds that can't fly serve no purpose in this world
15:11:45 <mroman> it would be more fun though if you could air-race them
15:11:52 <mroman> red bull ostrich air race
15:12:22 <mroman> but until gene scientists can teach ostrichs how to fly we won't have this absolutely must-have event yet.
15:12:37 <mroman> that's why we invent esolangs instead
15:12:45 <hkgit03> work's done for today. Heading home. See you later.
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15:26:52 <HackEgo> Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
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15:41:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Danialgoodwin * New user account
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16:09:49 <lambdabot> boily asked 5h 7m 32s ago: you're so evil, are you also into cats?
16:10:12 <oerjan> @tell boily nope, definite dog person here.
16:19:54 <fizzie> oerjan: You mean, like, a werewolf?
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16:32:06 * oerjan wonders why thomie cleared edwardk as owner on a bunch of ghc tickets
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16:42:15 <edwardk> oerjan: because a lot of stuff got assigned to me preemptively
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17:29:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44253&oldid=44226 * 70.24.238.196 * (+426) Added section about applicability to all 2d path walking problems
17:31:53 <myname> the first paragraoh alone is awesome
17:43:34 <MDude> Though Snakes and Ladders is probabalistic.
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17:44:27 <SinClad> How cant here be so many people yet no talking. Whats the point of being in a chat room?
17:46:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44254&oldid=44253 * 70.24.238.196 * (+57) Replaced reference to Go with directed graphs and cellular automatons
17:46:54 <HackEgo> SinClad: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
17:47:03 <oerjan> SinClad: this channel has some silent periods
17:47:52 <oerjan> as for all the people who rarely talk - well some of them may be here for old times sake, and some might think the discussions are interesting to read
17:48:05 <fizzie> And some might be stalking their next victim.
17:49:31 <oerjan> SinClad: oh and of course, time zones. some people stay in the channel even when they're physically sleeping :P
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17:51:19 <oerjan> but there _are_ also a lot of people for which i cannot remember when they last spoke
17:51:25 <Taneb> Some people just aren't paying attention
17:51:37 <SinClad> What knowledge do you guys have that makes it esoteric? The programs languages are interesting but, seeing as I am not a programmer it holds little value to me.
17:51:39 <S1> I spoke several times today
17:52:02 <oerjan> and some of them are actually bots.
17:52:47 <oerjan> S1: i think you didn't speak much for a while before this week, no?
17:53:23 <S1> oerjan: I am hkgit03 when I am at work. I was here several hours today. Before that I was here sometimes and before /that/ I wasn't here for several months, yes
17:53:58 <SinClad> What do you guys practice?
17:54:05 <oerjan> S1: i _do_ vaguely remember that your nick is old, although it's so short that i'm worried i might be confusing you with someone else
17:54:39 <S1> oerjan: I joined in november 2013. I was a bit more active then.
17:54:47 <S1> Have much to do. Studies are ending
17:54:49 <oerjan> SinClad: most people here are programmers or mathematicians, and the channel is sort of about weird things in programming, often math related.
17:55:24 <oerjan> well some people are also students or school pupils with a pretty high chance of _become_ programmers or mathematicians.
17:55:50 <SinClad> Ah I see. Esoteric means something a little bit different to me some one like me.
17:56:20 <S1> SinClad: See definition 1. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/esoteric
17:56:31 <oerjan> SinClad: yeah. that's why our welcome message which HackEgo gave you mentions those other channels at the end, which might be more like you expect
17:58:10 <oerjan> using the word "esoteric" for programming grew out of the title of a blog, which has alas since vanished (although the author has new stuff of the same kind).
17:58:15 <SinClad> well computer programming and occult practices are actually pretty similar.
17:58:45 <oerjan> hm or not blog, a webpage.
17:59:13 <shachaf> This channel is really just for Order of the Stick notifications and discussion.
17:59:56 * oerjan beats shachaf with a stick^Wten foot pole ----------
18:01:00 <SinClad> Well I wwill stay for now. Someday I will need knowledge of programming but, that day is still almost a year away. Let me know if you guys are intrested in occult. I am quite accomplished.
18:01:06 <oerjan> anyway, we have a not too well organized wiki http://esolangs.org
18:03:36 <MDude> I'm wondering how to best represent cosine wave cominations as data in javascript.
18:03:37 <S1> I wonder how long is the shortest program to output the manpage for g++ and terminate...
18:03:58 <S1> MDude: What you mean, "as data"?
18:04:11 <S1> Just store the parameters?
18:04:17 <SinClad> At first I had thought you guys were occultist practicing spells through computer programming. I was interested to say the least. Not many people use such a medium. Even less are those who are successful.
18:05:00 <S1> Well, we call upon the name of some mysterious bots in great awe
18:05:05 <MDude> I mean, I'm more just wondering how to best parse textual input into a set of frequencies and amplitudes.
18:05:24 <S1> MDude: You wanna make a fourier analysis on text?
18:05:57 <MDude> Pretty much http://esolangs.org/wiki/Codesine
18:06:02 <shachaf> oerjan: wait a minute, are you a programmer or mathematician or something?
18:06:13 <oerjan> shachaf: ex-mathematician hth
18:06:33 <MDude> Not as an analysis of the text, I just want to be able to use text for an interactive interpreter.
18:06:35 <SinClad> Well computer programming is actually a form of spell the only reason its occult knowledge is because even the people who program dont know what their capable of.
18:07:02 <MDude> So I can manually enter waves and perform operations on them.
18:07:43 <S1> MDude: fascinating. Is there any example of this?
18:08:25 <SinClad> You guys look at problems backwards. Makes things difficult. Science minded folk. Using the left brain only moving forward. Its a powerful force of energy its just limiting cuz you can only move 1 way in time. So if you get stuck you get stuck on something for a while.
18:08:39 <SinClad> You want me to give you a example?
18:08:45 <SinClad> or are you talking to someone else?
18:08:50 <S1> I prefixed MDude
18:09:18 <S1> feel free anyway, I won't interrupt
18:11:33 <MDude> S1: Not that I know of? But it's somewhat related to the way jpeg compression works.
18:11:42 <S1> Yes I figured that
18:12:02 <S1> The resulting uncertainty in return values might be interesting
18:12:07 <MDude> I'm pretty sure the idea came to me while trying to think of a way to make programming work mor elike tuning a physical instrument.
18:12:26 <S1> Do analogue computers work in a similar way?
18:13:17 <MDude> I would think a hybrid computer might, but pure analog just has the wave stored as itself.
18:13:45 <MDude> As a cam like the one used in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-dnAH9Y4
18:16:41 <MDude> Or here specifically: https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4?t=10m12s
18:17:07 <S1> I haven't watched the 45 min video yet. Also I am in the URL there
18:18:04 <S1> oh that's the same
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18:19:54 <MDude> It's to a specific time on it.
18:20:12 <S1> yes yes, I oversaw that
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18:22:21 <S1> oerjan: Did I tell that #esoteric was the first channel I joined ever? Could have been that it even was the one which made me concider using IRC in the first place. Just saying.
18:28:19 <shachaf> in haskell, Coyoneda -| U -| Yoneda
18:28:55 <shachaf> from endofunctors to polymorphic functions : forall a. f a -> g a
18:29:36 <shachaf> That reminds me that I wanted to `revert 5987.
18:29:41 <shachaf> But I guess I missed my chance.
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19:11:49 <MDude> It got replaced by Libralang?
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20:01:20 <zzo38> My sister was play a ranger in Doungeons&Dragons game this time she selected humans as the favored enemy; I think that is a good choice as they are so common. (This applies whether or not your character is human; if so you get these bonuses against yourself too)
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20:11:03 <Taneb> zzo38: the ranger I rolled for the 5th ed game I'm in had human as their chosen enemies
20:11:09 <Taneb> But they were a drow
20:11:17 <Taneb> And I didn't get to play them anyway :(
20:11:32 <Taneb> Mostly due to the fact that drow do not like sunlight
20:11:39 <Taneb> Ended up with a tiefling paladin
20:13:16 <zzo38> My sister's character is also drow actually
20:13:28 <S1> which game are you talking about?
20:15:07 <Taneb> Dungeons and Dragons
20:17:36 <zzo38> Now I have recorded the character data of all of the new characters.
20:20:35 <zzo38> My sister's character is a ranger with classified alignment, my sister's friend's character is a monk who can also play flute, and my character is a scholar.
20:21:07 <oerjan> is e also a gentlebeing
20:21:53 <Taneb> Is who a gentlebeing?
20:22:10 <zzo38> What is a "gentlebeing"?
20:22:21 <S1> `? gentlebeing
20:22:23 <oerjan> a gender neutral gentleman
20:23:09 <zzo38> The gender is written "male"
20:23:29 <S1> how to teach HackEgo new things?
20:23:31 <oerjan> in that case, is he a gentleman and a scholar
20:23:40 <Taneb> oerjan: my drow ranger was a gentlebeing
20:23:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44255&oldid=44254 * Keymaker * (+1621) Added a tool for translating Minsky Machine to Nopfunge.
20:23:51 <oerjan> `learn A gentlebeing is a gender neutral gentleman.
20:23:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'gentlebeing': A gentlebeing is a gender neutral gentleman.
20:24:10 <HackEgo> Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience.
20:24:25 <zzo38> I don't know, depending how you mean by "gentleman" here?
20:24:43 <zzo38> Taneb: What alignment? Was it classified or something else?
20:24:48 <oerjan> well a gentleman would know if he was hth
20:25:15 <Taneb> zzo38: I think I said neutral good by drow standards
20:25:27 <Taneb> Possibly lawful evil by anyone else's?
20:25:37 <oerjan> `learn A gentlebeing is a gender and species neutral gentleman.
20:25:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'gentlebeing': A gentlebeing is a gender and species neutral gentleman.
20:25:49 <zzo38> Taneb: Ah, OK fine whatever
20:27:24 <oerjan> Taneb: i didn't think D&D alignments depended on opinion, aren't they essentially basic axioms of nature
20:27:35 <zzo38> oerjan: I think it also depend on the campaign?
20:28:02 <Taneb> oerjan: they believe that the rightful, natural place for a human is as a slave
20:28:05 <oerjan> well i guess they could vary by world
20:28:45 <zzo38> (My design would be they are both, independent of each other but correlated to each other too)
20:29:13 <oerjan> Taneb: one question here, i guess, is whether e.g. drow in your campaign world consider themselves good.
20:29:42 <oerjan> e.g. in the yafgc comic which is d&d world based, evil people are quite aware that they are.
20:30:06 <Taneb> oerjan: I think drow in this world would consider my character a bit overzealous
20:30:09 <oerjan> (it doesn't stay strictly to d&d in everything, mind you)
20:32:15 <Taneb> They in their backstory was kicked out of the drow community for studying humans a bit too intently, albeit for the right reasons (slaving)
20:33:26 <zzo38> (For example, if a creature has Lawful and Evil descriptors then it counts as lawful and evil for the purpose of spells even if they are of other alignments; but they will be counted as the alignments they act at the same time too.)
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20:35:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44256&oldid=44255 * Keymaker * (-1621) Removed my MM translator; realized that it has a gigantic flaw in its design... It can't work as it is.
20:37:00 <Vorpal> oerjan, you dislike Roald Dahl? Why?
20:37:28 <oerjan> ask shachaf, he added that
20:37:36 <zzo38> None of the other players in any game I have been in has ever written any back story yet at all
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20:37:49 <Vorpal> oerjan, so what is your actual opinion of his writings?
20:38:13 <zzo38> MercurialHg: OK, when you finished we can see then
20:38:28 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, you didn't like it when I replaced irc.dal.net with irc.dahl.net in `welcome
20:40:15 <Vorpal> shachaf, you should replace it with irc.valley.net obviously
20:40:26 <Vorpal> shachaf, since dal is Swedish for valley
20:41:36 <shachaf> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2013-01-24#205651
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20:51:15 <shachaf> oerjan: I probably shouldn't have done that.
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20:52:59 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
20:54:25 <oerjan> `` (echo hi; echo there) | h
20:57:46 <S1> What exactly is the difference between ` and `` for HackEgo?
20:58:21 <S1> ` does not allow those parenthesis around echo as it seems, but which syntax exactly does `` support?
20:58:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
20:58:56 <S1> MercurialHg: Brainfuck, Intercal, False, Befunge
20:59:32 <oerjan> S1: by default, when you do `command ... ..., all of ... ... are passed as a _single_ argument to command.
20:59:42 <oerjan> no shell escaping, nothing
21:00:10 <fizzie> Yes, it's not even executing a shell, IIRC.
21:00:30 <oerjan> `` is a command that passes the rest to an actual shell.
21:00:30 <HackEgo> bash: is: command not found
21:00:34 <HackEgo> TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS' exec bash -c -- "$1"
21:00:55 <fizzie> "`run x" is the builtin/"official" (FSVO) way to do "`` x".
21:01:23 <oerjan> we now have 3 versions of that. `run is the original, and is actually builtin. `` and ``` do slightly different things to the environment.
21:01:50 <oerjan> originally `` was just to abbreviate, then someone didn't like how `` time worked, so...
21:01:56 <fizzie> I don't like the inconsistent space after ``. I don't mind it with `run, but `` looks too much like `.
21:01:59 <HackEgo> export LANG=C; exec bash -c "$@"
21:02:18 <oerjan> then zzo38 added ``` which makes the locale C.
21:03:53 <HackEgo> bash: --: invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \
21:04:03 <oerjan> i think `run also isn't using bash, but dash
21:04:20 <HackEgo> bash: --: invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \
21:04:40 <HackEgo> /bin/sh: 0: Illegal option --
21:05:12 <oerjan> well, istr /bin/sh is dash.
21:05:35 <S1> That's why `echo $SHELL didn't work
21:05:35 <HackEgo> /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 \ k-P( \ __gmon_start__ \ libc.so.6 \ strcpy \ sigsuspend \ readdir \ strsignal \ isalpha \ pipe \ __strdup \ closedir \ isblank \ fork \ sigprocmask \ sigfillset \ realloc \ abort \ _exit \ strpbrk \ getpid \ kill \ strspn \ imaxdiv \ isspace \ strtod \ strtok \ strtol \ isatty \ strchrnul \ isprint \ getpwnam \ getp
21:08:18 <fizzie> `` readlink $(which sh)
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21:09:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44257&oldid=43611 * Mikescher * (+117) /* Befunge-93 */
21:09:35 <S1> `` ls -l $SHELL
21:09:35 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 4 Mar 1 2012 /bin/sh -> dash
21:10:42 <fizzie> `run echo $BASH_VERSION
21:10:51 <fizzie> That one runs under bash, if that wasn't established yet.
21:15:12 <S1> have a good night
21:15:19 <myname> i demand an example program for nopfunge
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21:24:06 <zzo38> I invented a "Wizard of Knowledge" prestige class for Dungeons&Dragons game, it is a bit comparable to Archmage and Loremaster but you lose two caster levels (at level 1 and 6), lose several spell slots to learn other stuff in its place, less base attack and base saves, and more skill points than other spellcasters
21:30:42 <zzo38> That is the description
21:32:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44258&oldid=44257 * Mikescher * (+667) /* Interpreters */
21:33:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44259&oldid=44258 * Mikescher * (-53) /* BefunExec */
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21:59:39 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5h 49m 26s ago: nope, definite dog person here.
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22:11:07 <shachaf> oerjan: what about indefinite dogs twh
22:11:55 <shachaf> oerjan: how about a short video of a dog wth
22:12:08 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/9n3q5pV.gifv
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22:29:37 <boily> hppavellon[1], hellochaf!
22:30:01 <boily> SIMD shouldn't be that hard to implement, no?
22:30:53 <oerjan> shachaf: please don't add any new things for me to look at. right now i don't see how i'll _ever_ get caught up enough to start reading that book...
22:32:06 <shachaf> oerjan: don't worry, it's only a few seconds
22:32:28 <olsner> shachaf: I liked the video with the dog
22:32:35 <oerjan> so are all the other things hth
22:33:35 <oerjan> shachaf: ok i have to admit, that dog is my spiritual twin.
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22:34:21 <oerjan> either that, or one that keeps running into glass walls
22:35:09 <olsner> it must have ran into a lot of them to learn so well that they don't let dogs through
22:35:27 <shachaf> it turns out this is a thing dogs do
22:35:35 <shachaf> you can find many videos of dogs doing this thing
22:42:30 <shachaf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSprSbj3oR0
22:42:38 <shachaf> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dog+thinks+door+is+closed
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23:17:52 <Melvar> hppavilion[1]: If I had a dollar …
23:18:21 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose I wouldn't be the first person to make that joke xD
23:19:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44260&oldid=42285 * SuperJedi224 * (-1652) Blanked the page
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23:51:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44261&oldid=44229 * 161.184.231.102 * (+13) Added 7Basic
23:51:22 <oren_> what characters should I add to my font next? I am thinking APL
23:52:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[7Basic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44262 * 161.184.231.102 * (+134) Basic page stub.
23:52:58 <oren_> https://launchpad.net/7basic
23:55:42 <zzo38> Yes, make APL fonts
23:57:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[7Basic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44263&oldid=44262 * 161.184.231.102 * (+418) Added basic syntax and example