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00:55:44 <HackEgo> [U+03B2 GREEK SMALL LETTER BETA]
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00:57:49 <doesthiswork> Are there many esoteric languages that use biological metaphors like p-systems and membrane computing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system
01:02:16 <zzo38> There may be a few biologicals ones
01:03:28 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: You can change the CSS for your account on MediaWiki-based sites, it tell you how on the preferences menu
01:03:42 <zzo38> So you can do that to change that if you do not like the style
01:06:35 <zzo38> I use Cologne Blue with additional CSS rules to remove the sidebar and several other things, and making section numbers green
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01:16:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44325&oldid=44317 * DinoD123 * (+8) /* Pseudorandom Values */ Made less ambiguous and ugly
01:23:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44326&oldid=44325 * SuperJedi224 * (+52) /* Pseudorandom Values */
01:35:16 <\oren\> should I add Bopomofo?
01:35:51 <zzo38> If you are going to add other Chinese stuff, then yes you should unless you have something else to add first
01:37:55 <pikhq> It's mostly used in Taiwan, but it is certainly in use.
01:43:00 <\oren\> Ok I just finished katakana and I'm adding bopomofo. When I finish bopomofo I'll upload a new font file and demo
01:43:29 <zzo38> Did you add hiragana yet?
01:44:05 <\oren\> yes, yesterday. http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png
01:44:22 <zzo38> Do you know if the use of delve ability in Magic: the Gathering permits the use of mana abilities even if you pay entirely by delve?
01:44:37 <zzo38> Also do you know if any cards have both delve and split-second?
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02:02:56 <tswett> Y'know, I thought costs were paid *before* spells went on the stack.
02:04:45 <tswett> Ah, nope. Putting a spell on the stack is the *first* step in casting it.
02:05:55 <tswett> Then you specify various things, including the spell's total cost and how you intend to pay it—but Delve isn't taken into account in this part.
02:06:48 <tswett> Then you specify specify targets.
02:07:03 <zzo38> Phyrexian mana is taken into account before you figure out total cost, so I would think that if you pay entirely by life then you cannot use mana abilities at this time but delve is different than that.
02:07:09 <tswett> Then... you determine the total cost again? That doesn't make sense.
02:08:31 <tswett> In any case, it goes on the stack in step 601.2a, then you calculate cost stuff in step 601.2b, then you determine the total cost in step 601.2f, then you may or may not be able to activate mana abilities in 601.2g, then you pay the cost in 601.2h.
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02:08:48 <tswett> The wording of Delve is: "For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana."
02:09:32 <tswett> The same clause also states: "The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined. "
02:10:17 <tswett> All of this implies that Delve does *not* alter the "total cost"; the "total cost" is just mana, even if you intend to pay it by exiling.
02:10:46 <tswett> 601.2g says that you can activate mana abilities "if the total cost includes a mana payment".
02:11:02 <tswett> So, to actually answer zzo38's question...
02:12:07 <tswett> zzo38: when you use Delve, you can always activate mana abilities as if you weren't using Delve, because Delve has no effect until after you've had the opportunity to activate mana abilities.
02:12:35 <zzo38> Ah, OK, I thought it might
02:13:49 <\oren\> Wait, does that mean I can cast an instant between a spell going on the stack and its cost being determined?
02:14:15 <zzo38> You don't get priority during that time
02:14:56 <tswett> `learn Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. “Delve” means “For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana.” The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined.
02:14:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'delve': Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. “Delve” means “For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana.” The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the
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02:28:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44327&oldid=42464 * Timwi * (+66) /* Features */
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02:31:41 <zzo38> I don't know if someone is
02:34:26 <izabera> i need someone to teach me swedish
02:34:46 <oerjan> olsner, Vorpal, FireFly, maybe i've forgot some
02:34:56 <oerjan> i can also do a little swedish in a pinch
02:35:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44328&oldid=44327 * Timwi * (+5) /* Less-than and shift-left */
02:36:07 <oerjan> (it's rather similar to norwegian)
02:37:12 <oerjan> izabera: 99% of swedes know english, i'm sure
02:37:30 <oerjan> in case it's for meeting or visiting
02:38:25 <izabera> i need to learn swedish for secret reasons
02:38:45 <izabera> it must be a fully fledged course, not just something that teaches me how to sing the caramelldansen
02:39:02 <izabera> ok well i only want to sing the caramelldansen
02:39:19 <izabera> it wasn't that big of a secret after all
02:39:25 <olsner> bah, you don't need to learn swedish for that, just do it phonetically
02:39:40 <izabera> https://translate.google.com/?client=tw-ob#sv/en/caramelldansen
02:39:59 <oerjan> getting the pronunciation right might require some training
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02:41:48 <oerjan> it means "the caramel dance" hth
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02:42:58 <olsner> iirc, caramell is the name of the band/artist/etc
02:43:21 <oerjan> izabera: http://lyricstranslate.com/en/caramelldansen-caramel-dance.html
02:43:26 <olsner> I wonder if they've produced anything else
02:44:42 <izabera> if you think about it, learning swedish would simplify so many things
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02:45:03 <izabera> i would be able to go to ikea and know wtf is a poang chair
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02:45:31 <oerjan> izabera: the names are pretty idiosyncratic even in swedish
02:45:32 <izabera> no other reasons to learn swedish
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02:45:38 <olsner> you'd mostly learn that the names have nothing to do with the thing
02:45:47 <\oren\> izabera: the most useful languages on the internet are japanese, chinese, swedish, and russian
02:45:49 <oerjan> some of them are actually norwegian placenames
02:46:12 <olsner> izabera: pong means point
02:46:45 <izabera> why would you name a chair like that
02:47:08 <oerjan> <olsner> I wonder if they've produced anything else <-- wikipedia has a discography hth
02:47:22 <izabera> https://translate.google.com/?client=tw-ob#sv/en/caramelldansen
02:47:29 <izabera> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S79825193/
02:47:52 <\oren\> sweden appears to produce a lot of pop culture
02:48:22 <oerjan> izabera: what i've heard is that it's because the founder of ikea was dyslectic or something so hated serial numbers, so he choose random memorable words instead
02:48:50 <\oren\> Also the Swedish House Mafia
02:49:15 <izabera> i guess they used up all the meaningful names
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02:49:47 <olsner> the color names look like place names
02:50:39 <oerjan> well i recall previously mentioned there was an ikea shark plush toy named BLÅHAJ, that was actually perfectly descriptive
02:51:10 <oerjan> so they're not _all_ meaningless, but most are
02:51:37 <izabera> is there some kind of rule about uppercase in swedish?
02:52:14 <oerjan> i think swedish case is pretty much like norwegian, which is pretty much like english but with very slight tweaks
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02:52:47 <izabera> how does this sound in norwegian? buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo
02:53:01 <\oren\> Dansa med os, clappa era hander, yor som vi yor te nagra steg at vanster
02:53:10 <oerjan> well you'd have to say bøffel instead, naturally.
02:53:40 <oerjan> no alternative verb meaning, alas.
02:54:07 <olsner> swedish has bufflar as both the plural and a verb
02:54:10 <oerjan> \oren\: i ... think you have some spelling errors, and not just the accents.
02:54:18 <olsner> buffalobufflar bufflar something something
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02:55:46 <\oren\> ok apparently I spelled most of the above wrong. owell
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02:56:29 <\oren\> hey sweden, why is your g pronounced like a y!?!
02:57:05 <oerjan> it's a sound change in front of front vowels.
02:58:10 <oerjan> english has inherited pretty much a similar one with many french words, it just doesn't have the ø
02:58:52 <oerjan> italian also has such a change
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02:58:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44329&oldid=44328 * Timwi * (-2) /* List encoding grammar */
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02:59:26 <oerjan> g being something else than a hard g in front of front vowels like i and e
02:59:49 <izabera> but we use ghi and ghe to make it hard
03:00:10 <izabera> and gia gio giu to make it soft in front of a o u
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03:01:10 <oerjan> in fact my own name had such a change at some point in it's path from greek georgios
03:01:54 <izabera> oh does oerjan mean george?
03:02:33 <olsner> well, same name, just different spelling and pronounciation
03:02:53 <oerjan> well it's _descended_ from george. and i know there's at least a swedish tradition of referring to St. George as Göran or Örjan
03:04:18 <oerjan> https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankt_G%C3%B6ran
03:04:19 <olsner> St George/Gran is the patron saint of Stockholm or something
03:04:36 <oerjan> "Sankt Göran (Sankt Georg, Sankt Jörgen, Riddar Örjan, Georg den Helige, lat. Sanctus Georgius), "
03:05:17 <olsner> oho, Jrgen is also the same name
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03:06:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Fundamentals]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44330&oldid=34819 * Timwi * (+450) /* XOR and Shift-left */
03:07:31 <olsner> hm, time to sleep a bit, it's almost morning
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03:07:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Functions]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44331&oldid=34821 * Timwi * (+13)
03:08:01 <izabera> why sleep now, you can sleep tomorrow
03:08:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44332&oldid=24766 * Timwi * (+573) /* Successor function */ Predecessor function
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03:09:03 <oerjan> "Sankt Göran är flitigt använd som symbol i Ryssland, egentligen Moskvas skyddshelgon, och återfinns bland annat i det ryska riksvapnet. Han är även skyddshelgon för England, Portugal, Katalonien, Litauen, Serbien, Montenegro, Georgien, Etiopien, London, Freiburg im Breisgau, Genua, Lod, Barcelona (Sant Jordi), Strumpebandsorden och scoutrörelsen."
03:09:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44333&oldid=44332 * Timwi * (-579) /* Subtraction, unary minus, absolute value, shift right */ Shift right is now in "Fundamentals"
03:09:15 <oerjan> that's a list of places he's patron saint of
03:09:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Template:Back]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44334 * Hppavilion1 * (+37) Created Template
03:10:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: what now
03:10:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44335&oldid=44333 * Hppavilion1 * (-20) Set up template
03:10:52 <hppavilion[1]> It says "<- [[{{{1}}}|Back to {{{1}}}]]" (where <- is an actual arrow)
03:11:09 <oerjan> we have subpages enabled on the user namespace, but not the main oe
03:11:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44336&oldid=44335 * Timwi * (+1) /* Subtraction, unary minus, absolute value */
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03:12:22 <oerjan> i mean mediawiki has an automatic system for those backlinks, but we haven't enabled it for the main namespace
03:12:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44337&oldid=44336 * Hppavilion1 * (-2) Fixed template
03:13:11 <oerjan> i'm afraid it would break pages we already have (/// anyone) if we did?
03:13:39 <hppavilion[1]> It's useful for if you want to add it manually, I guess
03:14:18 <izabera> you're a c++ programmer now
03:15:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44338&oldid=44337 * Timwi * (+26) /* Division and modulo */
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03:16:03 <oerjan> here's a sample of how it works in the user space https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/FurryScript
03:17:04 <hppavilion[1]> Someone should figure out what MediaWiki's computational class is
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03:17:57 <oerjan> the only reason why it wouldn't be turing complete is because they have to have resource limits
03:19:07 <oerjan> i don't know all these technical details about it
03:19:14 <oerjan> i can barely write a template
03:19:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44339&oldid=44338 * Timwi * (-243) /* Division and modulo */ update to newest version (with Starkov construct)
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03:22:47 <zzo38> There are many other user subpages too, not only myself
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03:37:00 <hppavilion[1]> My λ-calculus lexer works on at least one test case! ("(λx.x)y")
03:38:25 <hppavilion[1]> "Alone in Valhalla" would be a good name for a philisophical short story...
03:39:06 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, words are just arbitrary patterns of letters (representing sounds) that we apply meaning to
03:39:49 <hppavilion[1]> And AFAICT from Relativity, movement is pretty much meaningless...
03:40:49 <izabera> the outer ( ) isn't needed
03:41:43 <hppavilion[1]> The point was that it is "philisophical" OR "philosophical" OR any other of the infintite possible words we could assign to it
03:42:47 <hppavilion[1]> And isn't that we can understand it all that matters?
03:43:03 * hppavilion[1] goes into another /(phil(i|o)sophical|.*)/ monologue
03:43:55 <izabera> i think the point is that the target should understand
03:44:21 <hppavilion[1]> The speaker needs to understand what they're saying, too
03:44:42 <hppavilion[1]> Which is why babies saying "i luv my mama" is entirely meaningless
03:45:01 <izabera> assume you have a perfect translation software
03:45:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/List handling]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44340&oldid=38011 * Timwi * (+11126) Updates
03:45:22 <izabera> you can't speak french, your software can
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03:46:04 <izabera> the software translates your sentence, you say it and you don't understand it anymore, but the target does
03:46:47 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But you understand what you're saying, assuming you can trust the soft- oooooh
03:47:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Timwi * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Funciton list functions dependency graph.png]]"
03:47:38 <hppavilion[1]> Where we may be experiencing two entirely different planes of reality?
03:47:42 <izabera> well i didn't mean this but it makes sense i think
03:49:12 <hppavilion[1]> "well i didn't mean this but it makes sense i think"
03:49:26 <hppavilion[1]> In a conversation about whether the speaker has to understand what they're saying
03:51:16 <hppavilion[1]> (Not proved ourselves wrong. Disproved ourselves.)
03:52:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Functions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44342&oldid=44331 * Timwi * (+151) Lazy-evaluated sequences coming up
03:53:50 <ski> izabera : hm .. <https://web.archive.org/web/20130121075258/http://www.slayradio.org/home.php?news_item=15>,<http://www.slayradio.org/home.php#mastering_swedish_lesson_1>
03:57:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Lazy-evaluated sequences]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44343 * Timwi * (+79171) Explanations coming up...
04:11:25 <\oren\> I've uploaded the new version of my font with katakana. I'm having... issues with bopomofo so they're not in the demo yet
04:12:06 <izabera> do you use something like git for your font?
04:12:27 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Fun’
04:12:28 <lambdabot> variable ‘un’ (imported from Control.Lens),
04:12:32 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Fun’
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04:13:36 <\oren\> izabera: No, I jsut upload it to my website
04:13:50 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
04:14:15 <coppro> \oren\: why are things green?
04:14:52 <coppro> \oren\: also some of the hiragana are bursting their bounding boxen
04:15:05 <\oren\> they are the newset characters
04:15:34 <coppro> actually it's not just the hiragana
04:16:32 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png they don't seem to do that for me?
04:17:09 <ski> oh, petscii
04:17:47 <\oren\> oh shit I forgot I added more petscii chars
04:17:57 <coppro> for me the top line of every character is replaced with a single-pixel black line
04:18:13 <coppro> also your hiragana are really cozy even so Oo
04:21:21 <\oren\> coppro: web font support appears to vary widly between browsers in terms of pixel-perfection
04:22:11 <\oren\> and even between versions of the same browser
04:22:27 <\oren\> firefox behaves different on windows versus linux for instance
04:23:00 <\oren\> At least terminal emulators appear to have much more consistency
04:26:38 <\oren\> now i'm gonna try to fix the bopomofo so i can add them
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04:29:20 <\oren\> after that, i'll maybe draw the rest of the wide latin and make them not screwed up
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04:35:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Lazy-evaluated sequences]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44344&oldid=44343 * Timwi * (+3687)
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04:50:23 <\oren\> hey, coppro, I changed the otf file, does this one have less glitches?
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04:54:39 <\oren\> at least now I know how to make otfs that actually work on other peoples computers
04:57:35 <\oren\> why are my computers always the special ❄'s?
05:00:10 <\oren\> @tell b_jonas I've added katakana and bopomofo now
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05:20:47 <^v> hkgit03, D: hope you have another job in mind
05:21:10 <hkgit03> Uhm well I am applying of course but got nothing so far
05:23:31 <^v> thats good, im guessing you are applying for tech jobs
05:25:38 <^v> im looking for one but i live in 'murica but nobody around here will interview high schoolers
05:26:11 <^v> mostly because of their requirements
05:26:48 <^v> the high-paying ones really only accept people that have degrees
05:27:46 <^v> or internships through the colleges
05:27:54 <^v> and im not in college yet
05:28:58 <hkgit03> I won't get the murrican school system very soon
05:29:54 <^v> which is kind of stupid, i practically have the same or better experience than most CS majors
05:31:43 <^v> yes, close to getting a certificate
05:32:43 <\oren\> C++ isn't really used much in school but a lot of companies use it
05:33:05 <^v> all im doing to get it is going through the week's material and answering all the questions on the test in one day
05:33:14 <^v> then waiting for them to let me take the next test, etc
05:33:38 <^v> a lot of startups are using Ruby now
05:34:18 <^v> and they accept a lot of college skiddies
05:34:45 <\oren\> millions of lines of terrible code, coming right up
05:34:46 <^v> ruby and node.js
05:34:58 <^v> are the main two right now for startups
05:35:03 <^v> PHP is slowly slowly dying
05:36:03 <\oren\> At work I use C++ and a proprietary language
05:36:25 <\oren\> well, more like two proprietary languages
05:36:53 <\oren\> the C++ is a proprietary dialect
05:37:04 <^v> 90% of going from mastering C to mastering C++ is memorizing all the different uses for things in std and boost
05:38:25 <^v> \oren\, robomatter?
05:39:09 <^v> probably not
05:40:13 <\oren\> we don't do robots. yet.
05:40:42 <^v> robomatter is the creator of RobotC which is the fucking worst C like language in existence
05:41:02 <\oren\> but if someone builds a robot, they could use Houndify to make it voice-activated
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05:41:30 <^v> ill explain, robomatter made their own VM and their own C compiler
05:41:45 <^v> let me look up the CPU our robots use
05:41:50 <myname> i always thought c++ is the worst c like language in existemce
05:42:30 <\oren\> clearly you've never had to figure out what the hell Objective-C++ is supposed to be
05:43:46 <^v> cba look up the model, its some ARM Cortex M3 with only 64k ram and 256k flash
05:44:02 <^v> but the VM is insane slow
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05:44:59 <^v> their C compiler is barely ISO compliant
05:45:40 <^v> arrays are physical pointers, rather than being their own type and decaying like they usually do in C
05:46:20 <^v> hkgit03, say in C you declare a array
05:46:27 <\oren\> you can use an array's name as if it were a pointer to the first element of the array
05:46:27 <^v> char potato[16];
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05:47:04 <^v> you can implicitly cast potato as a char*
05:47:25 <hkgit03> Is that a cast? I thought it implicitly was nothing but a char*
05:47:47 <\oren\> no because sizeof(potato) is still 16
05:47:47 <hkgit03> so that char potato[16] would be the same as char* potato = (char*)malloc(16);
05:48:08 <\oren\> and arrays are allocaed on the stack not the heap
05:48:21 <^v> hkgit03, pretty much but obviously it gets freed as the stack unwinds
05:48:37 <hkgit03> you mean the array pointer is on the stack?
05:48:49 <\oren\> no the array data is ont he stack
05:48:53 <^v> no the physical bytes are on the stack
05:49:11 <^v> well when you want to pass potato to a function
05:49:12 <hkgit03> cannot get random array access into this context..
05:50:02 <\oren\> the stack isn't accessed like a stack in C
05:50:16 <hkgit03> Aren't we talking about the C stack? I thought we were
05:50:36 <^v> the main issue of their compiler though, if you mess up brackets
05:50:43 <^v> you get an error on an unrelated line
05:51:08 <^v> and in some cases, a missed semicolon messes up the brackets
05:51:19 <^v> and you get an unrelated error at the bottom of the file
05:51:25 <myname> hkgit03: of course it's on the stack. that's why it is such a mess to return an array
05:51:28 <oerjan> @tell edwardk I notice you haven't uploaded a new constraints to hackage
05:52:48 <^v> also there is no linker
05:53:04 <^v> the linker has been a request for over 5 years now
05:53:12 <\oren\> so you have to compile the whole program at once?
05:53:39 <^v> yes, you have to do #include "poop.c"
05:54:04 <^v> myname, xD c++ is the opposite, i feel like i split things into files way too often
05:54:27 <myname> well, yes, you can split into files
05:54:34 <\oren\> myname: well yeah, but at least c++ can use namespaces
05:55:03 <^v> c++ namespaces are my savior on my latest robot project
05:55:03 <\oren\> whereas here he has to make sure every name is unique throughout the progrem
05:55:18 <^v> well i dont use RobotC
05:55:44 <^v> there is a open-source Free-RTOS based OS for the robots called PROS
05:55:51 <^v> its gcc/g++ based
05:55:57 <^v> which is great
05:57:26 <\oren\> the typical C equivalent to a namespaced function is a static function
05:57:27 <^v> im decent with arm/thumb so inline asm is extremely useful in some cases
05:58:33 <^v> until about 2 years ago in RobotC ints were 16 bit and longs were 32 bit
06:07:58 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzek-QEc0o
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06:16:39 <^v> \oren\, i only listen to chiptune
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07:05:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh great, the web font version works now! I swear I tried it yesterday evening and it didn't yet work.
07:05:18 <b_jonas> I'm glad you didn't break it forever
07:10:36 <\oren\> Yeah I was doing something wrong before when making the otfs
07:12:41 <\oren\> so yeah now there is all the kana and also bopomofo
07:13:20 <\oren\> tomorrow I'll add the full wide ascii set and maybe a few kanji
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07:17:25 <\oren\> I should also add at leat that one hangul sylable that looks like a stick figure
07:18:00 <b_jonas> \oren\: are you going to auto-generate the ten thousand korean syllables from constituents? you'd just need to draw the letters in a couple of different sizes, the composition tables to drive it, some simple rules to choose the sizes from the letters (from whether there's a final, and from what shape the medial is), and a perl script to drive and compose the bitmaps and write a bdf.
07:18:18 <b_jonas> \oren\: be sure to add the common Japanese punctuation
07:19:22 <edwardk> @tell oerjan mostly because i'm not very happy with the new forall
07:20:55 <\oren\> I've got the fullwidth Japanese comma and period already done, but I'll wait until I finish the whole group they're in before I add to the demo
07:24:23 <b_jonas> s/tables/rules/ because it's so long the decompositions aren't even listed in the long tables in ICU, but instead decomposed on the fly by the code, implemented in icu/icu/source/common/normalizer2impl.{h,cpp}
07:32:20 <b_jonas> \oren\: sure, I don't mean only the period, but also some of the more tricky ones, like quotation marks, parenthesis, and the rare tilde thingy
07:32:33 <b_jonas> and whatever else there is
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07:46:54 <b_jonas> wtf. configure help says '--enable-stage1-languages[=all] choose additional languages to build during stage1. Mostly useful for compiler development'
07:47:02 <b_jonas> I'm configuring gdb, not gcc, what the heck is with you?
07:49:43 <\oren\> Ok, I'mma upload the font again, because I've finished wide ascii
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07:52:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: the font only, or also the demo?
07:55:41 <\oren\> at the bottom, wide ascii
07:58:23 <\oren\> ＡＢＣＤＥＦＧＨＩＪＫＬＭＮＯＰＱＲＳＴＵＶＷＸＹＺ
07:59:00 <b_jonas> ok, I got answer to my question on #gdb
08:00:22 <b_jonas> \oren\: looks good, they match the normal ascii well
08:00:38 <\oren\> should i also put into the demo page the 12 or so chinese characters included?>
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08:01:50 <b_jonas> argh, I forgot this. you never know which of "make test" and "make check" do tests. sometimes one of them is a plain error, sometimes one is a nop and the other does tests, and sometimes they run a different set of tests.
08:06:42 <\oren\> there's the chinese in the demo.
08:07:31 <\oren\> 一丁丂七丄丅丆丈三上下不且世个中串主九了事二人
08:08:16 <b_jonas> \oren\: aren't they supposed to be green though?
08:08:58 <\oren\> and I should remove green from the older green ones
08:12:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: I'm missing 日 , 月 , 門 , 口 , which seem quite common, and some more numbers
08:12:49 <b_jonas> \oren\: and the punctuations of course
08:13:04 <\oren\> Oh, right. punctuation
08:17:09 <\oren\> 々 isn't really punctuation but it's in that range
08:18:13 <\oren\> yeah many common kanji I haven't drawn yet. I'll draw more tomorrow
08:21:31 <b_jonas> \oren\: will you later do two glyphs for the punctuation that changes between left-to-right and right-to-left arabic context, and two glyphs of the Japanese and Chinese punctuation that sometimes changes between horizontal and vertical writing (and sometimes depend on language too)?
08:22:48 <\oren\> I'll put it in my todofile
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08:23:51 <b_jonas> \oren\: in particular, there's a vertial variant of the katakana long vowel sign, and vertical variants of the Japanese full stop and comma that I think might have language-dependent rules, and vertical variants of the Japanese quotation marks
08:24:25 <b_jonas> \oren\: arabic stuff might not be worth because you won't be supporting it with this font, but you are planning to support Japanese text
08:24:38 <b_jonas> I don't know the detailed rules about these and how common they are, you'll have to look it up
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08:24:56 <b_jonas> they might also depend between ltr and rtl vertical columns
08:25:11 <b_jonas> the kanji you added look good to me though
08:25:33 <\oren\> in practice I think japanese and chinese simply use fonts with rotated gyphs
08:25:39 <b_jonas> I got some fails from the gdb make check, but I think at least some of them are because I have too old version of libc here
08:25:41 <\oren\> usually called @fontname
08:25:57 <\oren\> 04:21 < b_jonas> \oren\: will you later do two glyphs for the punctuation that
08:25:57 <\oren\> changes between left-to-right and right-to-left arabic
08:25:57 <\oren\> context, and two glyphs of the Japanese and Chinese
08:25:57 <\oren\> punctuation that sometimes changes between horizontal and
08:25:57 <\oren\> vertical writing (and sometimes depend on language too)?
08:26:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: sure, when you're using software that doesn't have enough support for this kind of stuff
08:26:11 <b_jonas> glyph variants and all that
08:26:15 <\oren\> shit stupid middle click paste
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08:27:02 <b_jonas> and then you get hard to read Japanese text in Chinese font, or Serbian/Macedonian text in Russian font (I still say those should have been two different SCRIPTS in unicode, not one cyrillic script, but politics overrode that and it's way too late to change now with all the existing corpus)
08:27:18 <\oren\> I have for exaple @MS Gothic which shows all japanese charatcers sideways
08:27:55 <\oren\> so you print it normally and then turn the page physically
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09:23:50 <hkgit03> Why does the esolang wiki have lemons as logo anyway?
09:24:26 <Taneb> hkgit03: they're limes
09:27:52 <izabera> you summon the devil when you squeeze them? idk
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09:28:16 <hkgit03> I think the devil is mainstream
09:28:39 <hkgit03> maybe the ghost of Winston Churchill
09:29:25 <Taneb> Did you put the limes there
09:29:49 <fizzie> That's what it's called, I believe.
09:30:25 <fizzie> As I understand it, the matrix of solidity.
09:32:25 <fizzie> It's origins have kind of been lost in time.
09:32:48 <hkgit03> Like origins of most esoteric things, I presume
09:33:10 <fizzie> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#015027Maharba some discussion
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09:34:05 <hkgit03> blocked by workplace firewall, but I'll read it eventually
09:34:30 <fizzie> Just as a note of caution, you won't find any answers there, just questions.
09:34:48 <fizzie> But the "trilime" term is fairly well established, at least.
09:36:02 <fizzie> I once suggested http://zem.fi/~fis/trilime.svg as a replacement, but it wasn't really appreciated.
09:37:04 <hkgit03> yeah uhm it doesn't raise questions as much as the original trilime
09:37:30 <Taneb> I guess you could say that the reasons for the trillime are esoteric
09:38:41 <fizzie> When life gives you limes, make esolangs.
09:38:58 <hkgit03> Is there no backup of the BF Operating System Bootloader?
09:39:09 <Taneb> `addquote <fizzie> When life gives you limes, make esolangs.
09:39:11 <HackEgo> 1255) <fizzie> When life gives you limes, make esolangs.
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10:54:16 <HackEgo> ostrich/Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
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11:06:04 <HackEgo> wise/Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise.
11:06:21 <HackEgo> monoid/Monoids are just categories with a single object.
11:06:33 <FireFly> well at least they are isomorphic
11:12:37 <HackEgo> Categories are just a special case of bicategories.
11:13:29 <boily> `culprits wisdom/wise
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11:14:34 <boily> bellonder|, FirelloFly, fizziello.
11:20:46 <HackEgo> boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department.
11:21:45 <boily> fizzie: I use http://www.soloestetica.it/Ingrandimenti5/FA_1813.jpg
11:22:35 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg
11:23:30 <int-e> Content-Type: application/binary
11:23:37 <int-e> that's not going to be helpful
11:23:45 <fizzie> Yes, it'll probably just download the file.
11:25:05 <fizzie> hkgit03: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg is a regular image, if that helps. It's not all that exciting to look at, however.
11:25:32 <hkgit03> I guessed that it's an image, thank you.
11:25:44 <hkgit03> I just rant about the workplace proxy in general
11:26:27 <fizzie> Oh, I assumed it was objecting to the application/binary type, as possibly implied by int-e.
11:26:45 <fizzie> That's one strict proxy you've got there.
11:26:56 <hkgit03> The dropbox url works fine
11:27:16 <hkgit03> And normally, if you use it to browse sites for work purpose, even if they seem to be private, they are not blocked
11:27:51 <hkgit03> This proxy knows what I'm up to, it has a built-in mind reader which determins my intention and blocks stuff that keeps me from working.
11:28:07 <fizzie> Possibly it just has something against codu.org.
11:28:19 <hkgit03> NO it MUST be the mind reader
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11:29:07 <hkgit03> Yes, it has something against codu.org, nothing from that site worked so far iirc -_-
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11:30:11 <boily> hkgit03: you should try the PDF in the /topic.
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11:30:59 <hkgit03> I remember reading that for the first time two years ago. I like it.
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12:45:48 <ais523> hmm, I am of the opinion that hppavilion[1] is interpreting the esowiki as performance art
12:45:53 <ais523> which may well be the bast attitude to it
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13:10:26 <myname> at lest he doesn't post lame languages and write yet another bot, i'm fine
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13:56:49 <HackEgo> boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
13:56:53 <Taneb> Where the hell did that come from
13:57:08 <ais523> hmm, I've forgotten the command
13:57:11 <ais523> that checks wisdom history
13:57:18 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
13:57:35 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1"
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14:16:28 <HackEgo> Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism.
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14:28:02 <fizzie> ais523: I think your command was all right. I'm not sure why it didn't work.
14:28:12 <fizzie> Taneb: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/24f05857a418/wisdom/boxmodel
14:28:29 <ais523> so it's not the bug where HackEgo does a "No output." on the first command after a whlie
14:28:38 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
14:28:47 <fizzie> Oh, it probably needs manual wisdom/.
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14:28:57 <fizzie> Since it's a generic culpritter.
14:29:06 <fizzie> `culprits wisdom/boxmodel
14:29:24 <ais523> I don't remember changing it though
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14:29:27 <fizzie> That's bett... except, I don't see those other people in the file log.
14:29:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Timwi * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Funciton list functions dependency graph.png]]": Why am I wasting so much time on this?
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14:29:44 <ais523> oh, perhaps it got affected by my script to delete random entries from wisdom/
14:29:49 <ais523> which was buggy and I'm not sure what it did instead
14:30:10 <fizzie> Yes, apparently, and then int-e did a revert.
14:31:03 <fizzie> Seems that it doesn't show up in the web browser's "file log" because it lacks the equivalent of --removed.
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14:32:10 <b_jonas> just list the version history of the ATTIC virtual directory
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14:46:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: the webfont version of your fontdemo page now works from the work machine too. so yes, probably just an error in the previous version.
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15:11:25 <b_jonas> the Erdős discrepancy problem solved, it seems. see https://gowers.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/edp28-problem-solved-by-terence-tao/
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15:22:43 <Taneb> b_jonas: what is the Erdos discrepancy problem?
15:23:26 <b_jonas> Taneb: see that blog post by Gowers, it should tell
15:26:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Lazy-evaluated sequences]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44346&oldid=44344 * Timwi * (+94) whoa, managed to leave out zip
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16:05:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44347&oldid=44163 * 68.197.153.86 * (+23) /* Implementations */
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16:07:00 <tswett> Bake 20–25 at 350 until golden brown, remove at once.
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16:11:19 <int-e> tswett: ah, but bake what?
16:12:23 <tswett> My instructions tdnh tbqh.
16:13:07 <int-e> oh it's a variation on tbh.
16:13:44 <ais523> tswett: did you start off with a nonsequitur just so that you could make that response when someone queried it? :-D
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16:14:21 <tswett> ais523: you're not allowed to know the answer to that question.
16:15:33 <HackEgo> The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
16:15:40 <b_jonas> int-e: a "chocolate cherry custard cake with buttercream frosting rosettes"
16:15:53 <int-e> `culprits wisdom/cake
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16:16:11 <fungot> b_jonas: wp is currently depriving us of the marriage was one of the templates at wikipedia:fair use rationale guideline fair use rationale.
16:16:25 <fungot> b_jonas: i just archived dana's proposal ( and my revision) as per fnord motion above. user:archolaarch o. lasupsmallfont color="green"user_talk:archolatalk/font/small/supfont color="404040"user:archola/ the_centrist_factiontcf/font 08:01, 27 march 2008 ( utc)
16:16:33 <ais523> what fungot style is that? seems Wikipedia-related
16:16:33 <fungot> ais523: i left a message on my talk page and calling me a troll. user:yami takashiyami ( user talk:yami takashitalk)
16:16:38 <fungot> b_jonas: this section is also being discussed above, but that of the wolf, if it's the creatures appearing on the coat of arms, then australia ought to have the equivalent image showing asian people, the most common breast shapes and sizes. the fnord were known as " fnord"
16:17:12 <HackEgo> [11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...
16:17:15 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, does seem like
16:17:22 <tswett> Nobody has yet been able to figure out the code.
16:17:32 <tswett> Let me give you some recipe ingredients generated by a neural net that's not mine.
16:17:39 <tswett> "1 beer, cut into cubes"
16:18:09 <tswett> "2 tablespoons of balsamic cocoa"
16:18:12 <ais523> the second half of the code seems to be composed of numbers, but some seem to have leading zeroes and some of them aren't integers
16:18:33 <tswett> "6 sprigs of freshly ground black pepper"
16:18:54 <int-e> ugh, what was the context...
16:19:26 <ais523> tswett: is the recipe neural net just combining random units of measurements with random ingredients?
16:19:57 <tswett> It seems to have an idea of what quantities ingredients tend to be used in.
16:20:16 <tswett> It's much more likely to say "a teaspoon of salt and two cups of water" than "a teaspoon of water and two cups of salt".
16:20:47 <b_jonas> tswett: is that part of a Chef program?
16:20:55 <tswett> https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
16:21:11 <tswett> "1 can enough red cayenne"
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16:21:41 <b_jonas> must be a program aimed at writing Chef programs
16:22:35 <int-e> 2015-06-24-14:45:36: <tswett> This code is better.
16:22:41 <ais523> tswett: any of the recipes theoretically possible yet? if so, any of them look even remotely edible?
16:23:33 <tswett> The ingredients list almost never matches the instructions.
16:24:15 <b_jonas> ais523: I would guess someone who understands cooking could find a recipe that looks somewhat reasonable, and then misinterpret it in a way that it deliberately becomes better.
16:24:33 <tswett> This is definitely a theoretically possible ingredients list.
16:24:35 <b_jonas> You'd need some prior understanding of what recipes result in acceptible cakes.
16:24:42 <tswett> 2 cups of chicken broth. 1/2 cup of oil.
16:24:54 <tswett> Those are the only ingredients.
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16:25:21 <ais523> that would not make for a good recipe
16:25:35 <ais523> I had some lessons on cookery at school
16:25:52 <ais523> and that has such a food group imbalance it's absurd
16:26:06 <tswett> This recipe calls for "salt and bell pepper".
16:26:22 <tswett> See, it's smarter than a Markov chain.
16:26:39 <tswett> A Markov chain doesn't really know that "bell pepper" is likely to appear after the same sort of stuff that "pepper" is.
16:27:27 <b_jonas> tswett: the problem is that many of the recipes with many ingredient mix both sweet and salty ingredients.
16:27:43 <tswett> "1 tablespoon creme de carrots"
16:28:01 <ais523> mixing sweet and salty ingredients is normally a bad idea, but it's less absolutely a bad idea than making oil 20% of your recipe
16:28:15 <ais523> you could maybe get away with making salad cream like that
16:28:18 <ais523> but I hate salad cream as it is
16:28:30 <ais523> (oil as 20%, that is, not mixing sweet and salty)
16:28:39 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, it's not always a bad idea, but you have to be careful with it
16:28:47 <b_jonas> ais523: this tries to put _chocolate_ in a salad-like thing
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16:29:06 <b_jonas> (which it calls "CHINESE MEAT" despite that it has no meat by the way)
16:29:24 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't eat chocolate any more, but a chocolate salad sandwich would probably taste reasonable
16:29:26 <tswett> "1/4 teaspoon pepper, or dough"
16:30:02 <tswett> "1/2 cup of water, whatever; grated"
16:30:19 <b_jonas> but yes, the quantities seem to be very off too
16:31:02 <b_jonas> it doesn't seem to understand that you need not only condiments, but some sort of constitutent like flour or corn or meat or vegetable or something of which you take more than just a few spoonfuls
16:31:10 <tswett> This recipe calls for a quarter teaspoon of salt, and a quarter teaspoon of salt, and salt and pepper, and salt, and three teaspoons of salt, and two tablespoons of salt, and a half cup of shredded salt.
16:31:52 <ais523> tswett: that'd make a decent condiment for crisps, I think
16:31:54 <b_jonas> "Internets appears is variety and rep." it says
16:32:18 <tswett> Looks like this recipe has 58 ingredients.
16:32:19 <b_jonas> what does "cn" mean in "2 cn Walnuts"?
16:32:19 <int-e> tswett: are any recipes calling for spam, spam, spam and spam?
16:32:32 <b_jonas> I don't understand these american ingredient listings. there's no grams anywher
16:32:45 <b_jonas> and "2 sm Chicken brisket", whatever is a "sm"?
16:32:45 <tswett> b_jonas: I assume "cans".
16:33:09 <tswett> And I think "sm" means "small".
16:33:12 <b_jonas> _cans_ of walnuts? if you say so
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16:33:38 <fizzie> I think those are right, but I also think abbreviating 'can' with 'cn' is stupid.
16:33:55 <tswett> fizzie: what two-letter abbreviation would you use?
16:34:22 <ais523> walnuts normally come in packets
16:34:30 <fizzie> But perhaps the recipe database has a VARCHAR(2) field.
16:34:31 <tswett> Basil balls of bean bread. Serves 4. Ingredients: 2 large cornmeal; bread. (End of recipe)
16:34:31 <b_jonas> in that case the ingredient list of "HUNGARIAN SOUR CHERRY POT PHIG PART" doesn't look that unreasonable
16:35:01 <int-e> hmm, many nuts come in cans though; why not walnuts...
16:35:12 <b_jonas> but it's indeed very disconcerting that after that ingredient list, the recipe starts with "Put fish"
16:35:17 <b_jonas> there's no fish mentioned before
16:35:35 <b_jonas> "Put fish into flour mixture over hot oil in a medium-size." is ok, but not after those ingredients
16:35:44 <int-e> b_jonas: it's an unexpected twist to make the story more exciting
16:35:56 <ais523> b_jonas: that instruction sounds /vaguely/ like you're intended to batter the fish
16:36:13 <ais523> although it's not worded properly for that
16:37:00 <tswett> "8 ounce piece of trout of milk (1 cup)"
16:37:17 <tswett> "2 quarts of vegetables with chocolate"
16:37:19 <ais523> any americans here, is 8 oz = 1 cup?
16:37:23 <b_jonas> int-e: I assume you'd roll the fish in the flour mixture, then fry in hot oil, which is good, it's just a bit abbreviated for experienced cooks.
16:37:50 <tswett> "1 cup of dark tomato sheets"
16:38:01 <tswett> "1 large cinnamon crumb"
16:38:07 <tswett> Like... just a big chunk of cinnamon?
16:38:08 <fizzie> "Bake in a food processor until the sauce is ready to use."
16:38:41 <b_jonas> then it says "Mix together the peaches" so I assume he ran out of cans of pineaple and decided to substitute peaches, which is a strange bait and switch of the main ingredient so I'd demand a refund, but whatever.
16:39:07 <fizzie> I like these instructions.
16:39:11 <fizzie> "Mix together the flour, sugar, the baking dish, garlic, shortening, and butter."
16:39:16 <b_jonas> then "Plave another until very smooth, about 45 minutes or until the meat is tender." which means he's forgotten about the fish already and went back to the chicken briskets
16:39:36 <ais523> neural net output tends to have a short attention span
16:39:41 <b_jonas> but "When cookies melts, fold the top in the muffin thick" is out of the blue
16:39:46 <fizzie> fungot: Would you like to learn how to cook?
16:39:46 <fungot> fizzie: it would take much fnord to get closer than you already are. what you call aol when it's gone awol and wont connect! user:68.39.174.15068.39.174.150 05:24, 9 may 2007 ( utc)
16:39:49 <int-e> fizzie: the garlic is a nice touch.
16:39:54 <b_jonas> "Cut the strips on the oven and chill" is fine
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16:40:15 <tswett> "Serve with a hamburger." Yeah, sure.
16:40:17 <b_jonas> but what cookies? he didn't get to that point yet
16:40:30 <fizzie> "Turn off any flour; stir in beans, cooking oil and orange juice."
16:40:49 <b_jonas> "Pour about 1/4 lemons, cocoa, and sugar in the prepared pan." -- er what? oh, that's how you make the cookies?
16:41:11 <b_jonas> "Bake in a food processor until the sauce is ready to use." -- ah, so that's the frosting for the cookies!
16:41:19 <tswett> This is a recipe for "herbs".
16:41:24 <b_jonas> but where'd he get the cookies?
16:41:42 <tswett> "Makes about 3/4 flvidore by Electronicies for $7.96"
16:41:46 <fizzie> Full instructions, after a long, long list of ingredients: "Preheat oven to 350. Remove from pan; fold into pieces and season. Add remaining butter and sugar. Cover with baking sheets. Spread crumbled barley on a parmesan cheese it."
16:41:56 <b_jonas> oh, I see, the ingredients has walnuts, sugar, and egg yolks. probably he made cookies or muffins from those.
16:41:58 <tswett> Damn it, I hate in-recipe purchases.
16:43:24 <fizzie> "-- cook over low heat until the eggplant forms of a colander."
16:43:45 <fizzie> If only it didn't have the ungrammatical "of".
16:44:17 <b_jonas> "183 calories" -- you must mean per 100 gram or something.
16:44:44 <b_jonas> wait, "3 grams carbohydrate"? no way. where'd all the sugar and other ingredients go?
16:45:11 <fizzie> Here are the full instructions on how to make "HONEY PEPPER (LA])": "combine flour, baking powder, and cinnamon. Serve over top of instead."
16:45:33 <int-e> now that sounds like a great prank :)
16:45:51 <tswett> "... let stand at room temperature for 3 to 4 hours, or until setting forms an easter."
16:46:09 <ais523> flour + baking powder + cinnamon is actually a plausible set of things to mix together, at least
16:46:11 <b_jonas> this program really likes broth
16:46:36 <tswett> "2 tablespoons of lemon rind or taco"
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16:46:53 <tswett> "1 teaspoon potatoes (optional)"
16:47:17 <tswett> "Bake at 400 degrees for about 40 minutes, stirring constantly" – now that would be a miserable experience!
16:47:42 <tswett> "1 pound water, softened" – I can do that; I have a water softener at home.
16:47:46 <ais523> tswett: you can take it out of the oven to bake it
16:48:04 <hppavilion[1]> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaais52333333333333333333333333333333
16:48:05 <tswett> Take it out of the oven constantly?
16:48:19 <b_jonas> hehe, "BUFTHA DINGS (PASTA TOGERICK)" has only one ingredient. you wouldn't guess what that one ingredient is.
16:48:24 <ais523> we can interpret "constantly" as a malapropism for "continually"
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16:49:05 <b_jonas> "1 c Chopped redpen; cut into Pinch with plain white and -butter"
16:49:14 <b_jonas> no, I don't know what redpen means
16:49:20 <tswett> Indeed, I wouldn't have guessed that.
16:49:38 <tswett> One of the ingredients for this one is "Leaves"
16:50:08 <tswett> "2 tablespoons of chopped fresh curry or cooking spray"
16:50:27 <tswett> "2 medium sugar or food coloring"
16:50:41 <ais523> I'm going to interpret "cooking spray" as the sort of sprayable oil that's sometimes used to cut down on lipid content
16:51:21 <tswett> "1 cup of cooking oil or mint pieces (abouth)"
16:51:34 <tswett> "1 cup of miniature sour cream, solid halves"
16:53:02 <b_jonas> "Saute the dough into the freezer if colangol salmons, add the steamed with a large skillet, stir together the milk and oil. Add fruit and cook for about 1 hour. Add the mixture into bowl and add the chops and the buttermilk."
16:53:08 <b_jonas> all from just one cup of redpen
16:53:20 <ais523> I think we should probably let the neural net have some more training
16:53:30 <tswett> Redpen is a very versatile ingredient.
16:53:37 <b_jonas> oh! a redpen must be a magical crayon that lets you wish any object into existance!
16:54:22 <b_jonas> or what the scribblenaughts game uses
16:54:36 <tswett> It's actually a very viscous gel whose properties vary with temperature and acidity.
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16:54:53 <b_jonas> but "if colangol salmons" is funny enough
16:54:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/List handling]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44348&oldid=44340 * Hppavilion1 * (-23) "Made" a "meaningful" "contribution" to the article
16:55:07 <b_jonas> and "with a large skillset" must be a euphemism
16:55:31 <tswett> "Very viscous" as in it's about as thick as... uh, lemme think here.
16:56:01 <b_jonas> "The mixture with a well combined and additional in the bottom of the prepared pan. Microwave one hour." ok
16:56:14 <tswett> Peanut butter. It's about as viscous as peanut butter.
16:56:16 <b_jonas> isn't very specific about what to do, but ok
16:56:27 <b_jonas> well combined what and additional what?
16:56:39 <b_jonas> and what do I microwave? the pan?
16:57:03 <tswett> Yeah. Microwave the mixture in the pan.
16:57:05 <b_jonas> "Top with fresh beef, tuna, drain, cook the remaining mayonnaise, and top with salt. Sprinkle with sauce." -- ah, tuna with the colangol salmons!
16:57:39 <b_jonas> I guess it's obvious to someone who cooks.
16:58:36 <fizzie> "Meanwhile, depending on the oil in large bowl, combine the flour, baking dilespallas, lemon juice, and all the chicken."
16:58:40 <fizzie> Just, all the chicken.
16:58:41 <b_jonas> "Date: New York, Mark Summer" -- um, you have to be a bit more specific with the location if you invite me to a date. oh, maybe he lives in the 2000s and thinks I'll find her on facebook.
16:59:06 <fizzie> I assume that's something fancy.
16:59:38 <fizzie> Also I read "depending on oil in large bowl" as being some sort of improvised hourglass for measuring time.
16:59:52 <b_jonas> "3 tb Oil flour" -- um, what's that?
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17:00:20 <b_jonas> "1/2 c Water; or margarine" -- ah yes, a flexible recipe
17:00:52 <fizzie> "Sometimes these are a little incomprehensible.
17:00:55 <fizzie> "Peel beefer a laliar and all of each piece of salad."
17:01:05 -!- mihow has joined.
17:01:19 <fizzie> (That's the entire instructions for a CHEESE SALAD IN SAUCE SAUCE.)
17:01:28 <fizzie> What's your favourite sauce? Well, I like sauce sauce a lot.
17:01:57 <b_jonas> hehe, "AGOUNA TOPPING PASTRYY SALAD" (with "YY" in it, must be a wookie recipe) lists a long list of ingredients with like everything in it, and then says "Dissolve all the ingredients in a 1 cup pot of the foil."
17:02:03 <b_jonas> yeah no, I don't think those will just dissolve
17:02:28 <fizzie> The ingredients of the CHEESE SALAD IN SAUCE SAUCE include "1/2 c Water, whatever; grated".
17:02:34 <b_jonas> "1 c Medal 1/4-inch-wide" of what meat?
17:02:53 <b_jonas> 1/2 c Water, whatever; grated
17:03:34 <fizzie> In the same list, there's also "1 1/2 tb Water; cooked and".
17:03:59 <b_jonas> "1 ts Club cabbage" -- er what?
17:04:12 <b_jonas> and "1 ts Rolled of cornmeal" -- what rolls what?
17:04:57 <b_jonas> then of course even after this long list of ingredients that doesn't make much sense, it manages to mention mostly such items in the recpie that aren't in the list
17:05:04 <fizzie> b_jonas: Apparently the "club cabbage" is the colloquial term for the Norwich City coach service.
17:05:06 <b_jonas> eggs, banana, vinegar, basil,
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17:05:39 <b_jonas> "Combine the egg, eggs, and sift mixture."
17:06:00 <Taneb> Is there any way to combine neural networks and markov chains?
17:06:51 <b_jonas> oh, it's "skillet", not skillset
17:06:58 <b_jonas> and apparently "skillet" means some sort of pan
17:07:42 <b_jonas> "Refrigerate the sugar cubes on plate." -- if you say so
17:07:59 <fizzie> Taneb: I would guess the former are sufficiently powerful to represent the latter, if you want.
17:08:13 <b_jonas> "Remove from the heat and rosemary sheeps, almost the peaches if the potatoes and filling, add the sugar mixture, pourielant, and stir the flour mixture, stirring, turning with the top."
17:08:40 <Taneb> fizzie: they seem to do similar things in different ways
17:09:15 <b_jonas> "in a rollict pan" -- what
17:09:44 <b_jonas> I mean, I'm not good at cooking, but if these weren't all English, maybe I'd have a chance to just understand most of the funny _words_.
17:10:32 <FireFly> I see a lot of recipe-like lines in the scrollback. Is fungot testing their culinary skills?
17:10:32 <fungot> FireFly: let me quote: ' ' too complicated. likely to confuse the public, that marthinus accepted funds from mi, and there may be funny, but not me.
17:10:36 <b_jonas> Ah, this one may require dark magic, unless it has some special meaning in cooking: "1 c Packed days; almonds"
17:10:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
17:11:31 <fizzie> b_jonas: Maybe it's someone confusing dates and days.
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17:11:57 <b_jonas> "If you don't wark the brown, add the sugar and sugar." -- the ingredient list only has one mention of sugar, though it mentions salt three times and pepper twice.
17:12:13 <fizzie> I mean, it's based on user-contributed data.
17:12:22 <b_jonas> "Yield: 20 Oct 199 Mayonnaise and fresh chicken freeze with fork use muffins in lengthwise."
17:12:44 <b_jonas> that's what the Packed days are for!
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17:13:51 <b_jonas> I mean, yes but War doesn't preserve its enemies.
17:14:04 <fizzie> TIL: candy is made out of flour, finely chopped onion and olive oil.
17:14:22 <fizzie> By combining all three, then simmering over medium heat.
17:14:57 <fizzie> Followed by a lot of other stuff involving cheese, fish, potatoes, cream shortening, sugar, baking powder, cinnamon, peas, egg whites, etc.
17:15:04 <fizzie> Finished by microwaving on high for 2 minutes.
17:15:05 <b_jonas> lol, this long list has "1 ts Salt; 1 ts Salt; 1 ts Salt; 1/8 ts Salt; 1 ts Salt" spread in it
17:15:14 <b_jonas> also "1 x ------------------------------" is an ingredient
17:15:28 <int-e> ah, the mystery ingredient
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17:15:41 <fizzie> Oh, you must be looking at the BASIC SAUCE WITH CHICKEN WITH CHICKEN.
17:15:45 <b_jonas> no, I think that's code for "repeat everything until the next line 1 times"
17:15:49 <fizzie> Written uppercase, the titles look like Unicode character names.
17:16:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, for the titles have ampersands, which clearly can't occur in a character name
17:16:37 <ais523> I like the idea that the chickens are used to garnish the sauce, rather than vice versa
17:17:11 <b_jonas> so has anyone found a plausible one yet?
17:17:13 <int-e> the sauce is the best part!
17:17:23 <FireFly> "1 Beer -- cut into cubes"
17:17:24 <ais523> also I can confirm that you can reasonably have two differently-prepared pieces of chicken in the same meal
17:17:36 <int-e> FireFly: ice cubes, easy
17:17:43 <b_jonas> FireFly: yep, minecraft beer
17:17:55 <fizzie> b_jonas: The disconnect between instructions and ingredients make it hard to get plausible ones.
17:17:56 <b_jonas> ais523: of course! four-chicken pizza is the BEST
17:18:12 <b_jonas> yummy chicken breast meat, prepared four different ways
17:18:17 <FireFly> Cubed beer is an interesting ingredient for barbecue ribs
17:18:30 <fizzie> I think adding enough structure to the output to share nouns there would make them a lot more plausible.
17:18:42 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, you have to find short descriptions or short ingredient lists
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17:19:01 <fizzie> And those that use the "first three ingredients" or "all the ingredients" references.
17:20:12 <b_jonas> look at this APPLE SALAD SUPRETTI for example. both the ingredient list and the description is short enough, and the instructions include "Bake in preheated oven for 1 hour" after an ingredient list with 2 c milk, 4 c flour, and sugar, which totally makes sense
17:20:23 -!- ais523 has quit.
17:20:34 <b_jonas> how it would yield 8 servings from just 4 cup of flour I have no idea, but whatever
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17:20:59 <fizzie> b_jonas: It starts by mixing chopped onion, water, tabasco and celery, none of which exist.
17:21:05 <fizzie> Everything seems to have almonds.
17:21:19 <int-e> b_jonas: serves 8 wasps
17:21:21 <fizzie> If you drop the first paragraph completely, the CHOCOLATE RANCH BARBEQUE doesn't seem *that* far out.
17:21:22 <mauris> wowow i'm looking at this
17:21:26 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, the onion seems like a bad idea for this, but still
17:21:49 <fizzie> "2 tb Parmesan cheese -- chopped; 1 c coconut milk; 3 eggs, beaten": "Combine the cheese and salt together the dough in a large skillet; add the ingredients and stir in the chocolate and pepper."
17:22:00 <fizzie> I guess they just didn't want to mention the salt and pepper.
17:22:14 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, that on eis short enough too
17:22:16 <fizzie> (The first paragraph is completely contradictory, though.)
17:23:19 <b_jonas> "1 ts Freshly ground black pepper -- and cut into 1/2" pieces" -- what? cut into half inch pieces after grounding the pepper?
17:23:24 <fizzie> Or the CHICKEN WINGS PANOUT, if you ignore the epilogue.
17:23:37 <b_jonas> even whole black pepper has pieces smaller than half an inch
17:23:44 <fizzie> The full instructions are: "Combine all ingredients; beat until smooth. Reserve salt and grated cheese. Cool completely."
17:24:38 <b_jonas> fizzie: hehe, that one has funny things after. "NUMBERNANT COOKING IN THE SWITTER DOG MONE 6."
17:24:38 <fizzie> Not sure the cookie ice cream goes that well with garlic and soy sauce, though.
17:25:17 <b_jonas> fizzie: I think you can then jump to "add the chocolate and then cook until almost about 10 minutes or until slightly thickened." from later in the recipe
17:26:02 <ais523> "almost about 10 minutes" is a great unit of time
17:26:02 <b_jonas> but this thing really doesn't understand quantities
17:27:08 <fizzie> Making Hungarian skime corn potatoes involves, among a lot of other things and in this order, blending all ingredients, adding all ingredients, combining all ingredients, placing "remaining" ingredients in a plastic wrap in a skillet, and adding the still remaining ingredients.
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17:29:23 <b_jonas> "1 lb Lean bag in microwave"
17:29:26 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, in a http://www.xkcd.com/870/ panel 1 way
17:30:12 <b_jonas> hehe, "2 lb Potatoes; almost" -- I haven't seen that in a recipe yet
17:30:41 <b_jonas> hmm, that's not bad actually
17:30:47 <b_jonas> look at COUNTRY DIP COOKIES
17:31:42 <b_jonas> "2 lb Potatoes; almost; 1 lg Orange slices; 1/4 c Coarse carrot; leaves. This is too things to make pasta, spread with sauce. Beef the food processor and a skin to blend.
17:32:02 <b_jonas> Refrigerate for 30 to 30 minutes or until the mushrooms are not boil. Serve with fruits. Serves 3."
17:32:14 <b_jonas> (it says "Yield: 6 Servings" in the header, but ok
17:32:30 <fizzie> It's also in the "poultry" category.
17:32:54 <fizzie> I think the mushrooms would not be boil almost immediately.
17:32:58 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, it's a sauce spread you use to serve chicken pasta with
17:33:15 <b_jonas> the next one has a funny title: "BROAK PLANT BROCK STUFFED BLANT FOR 1"
17:33:26 <b_jonas> and no instructions at all
17:33:46 <ais523> if it has a consistent ingredient list
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17:33:49 <ais523> we might actually be able to cook it
17:33:55 <fizzie> Is there more than one way you can proceed if you're given granulated sugar, salad oil, lemon juice, salt, and hot soy sauce?
17:34:00 <ais523> given that we can make the instructions up
17:34:17 <b_jonas> fizzie: don't forget the Steamed, Biscuits
17:34:20 <b_jonas> they're the main ingredient
17:34:29 <ais523> fizzie: hmm, I think there's more of a chance of there being less than one way you can proceed
17:34:36 <fizzie> That's 16 boull of hot soy sauce, too.
17:34:51 <b_jonas> fizzie: that's optional if you don't like hot food
17:34:58 <fizzie> It yields 16 servings, so I guess it's one "boull" per serving.
17:35:09 <fizzie> If that's the same as a bowl, it sounds a bit spicy.
17:36:06 <b_jonas> hmm, the next ingreient list, the one with "CURRIED CREAM CORN COOKIES" has somewhat reasonable ingredients, provided you igonre the quantities of the Kikkoman salt and the pepper, which must be typos
17:36:33 <b_jonas> hmm, and the insrtuctions aren't too bad too,
17:37:11 <b_jonas> this CURRIED CREAM CORN COOKIES seems nice, but miscategorized as "Cumin"
17:37:14 <fizzie> On the other hand, it's the one where the eggplant forms a colander.
17:37:27 <fizzie> You may need to cook over low heat for a long time before that happens.
17:37:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, I'd like to think the "Top with" part is an optional addition
17:38:10 <b_jonas> hehe, it has chopped salt!
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17:39:30 <b_jonas> what does "consistenches" mean?
17:40:55 <b_jonas> "CARAMELLED CORN PIPS & A LAN SAUCE" has a simple ingredient list of ground beef and condiments only, then a long set of instructions that go very overboard for that
17:41:40 <b_jonas> It seems really complicated to make.
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18:35:56 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making a program to help people with the λ-calculus
18:36:41 <hppavilion[1]> Should I make it so there's a "λ" button that types "λ" at the current cursor, or so that "\L" is replaced with "λ", or both?
18:37:29 <zzo38> Assign a single key perhaps, such as F1 key or tab key
18:39:42 <hppavilion[1]> Because if you have a laptop, you can't hit f1 very easily
18:40:09 <shachaf> Just make people type Ctrl-Shift-U 3 B B <space>
18:40:22 <shachaf> DrRacket uses Ctrl-\ for lambda
18:42:34 <hppavilion[1]> I'll add a .cfg where you can bind lambda to a keycombo
18:43:42 <hppavilion[1]> Thank you, shachaf. You are truly the patron saint of typing non-ascii characters.
18:48:19 <mauris> well, will \ have any other meaning?
18:48:45 <mauris> if your program is really really lambda-calculus-specific \ might as well just type a λ
18:49:51 <mauris> and have \\ type a real backspace, because λλ makes no sense
18:49:53 <J_Arcane> I have Ctrl+L set to actually insert a whole lambda template. https://github.com/jarcane/Racketstuff/blob/master/my-keybinds.rkt
18:53:34 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: It's almost the same as standard λ-calculus. It /does/, however, support naming functions
18:55:46 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps I should make "<enter>" require that I hit "<enter>" one or two more times before sending
18:55:54 <mauris> if you mean re: my lines: yeah, i do mean the literal "\"! nobody's gonna want to write backslashes in your environment, it sounds like. so you might as well catch simple "\" keypresses and turn them into fancy lambda's
18:56:15 <mauris> i mean, lambdas. dutch has ruined me
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19:16:27 <mauris> ais523: thank god for "Open URL..." in jettyplay ;v;
19:16:52 <ais523> mauris: I'm a little surprised jettyplay still works, really
19:17:06 <ais523> it's showing signs of age already (such as keyboard controls not working in the latest Ubuntu, you have to use the mouse)
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19:17:12 <ais523> also, mindbogglingly high RAM consumption
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19:19:02 <S1> Did someone of you ever try to implement Sha1 in Brainfuck?
19:22:45 <shachaf> ais523: I meant more "what's with that function" than "what is that function".
19:23:11 <ais523> shachaf: we actually asked the devteam about it
19:23:22 <ais523> their response can be summed up as "at least it's not patented"
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19:41:56 <fizzie> mauris: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Rnz
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20:24:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44349&oldid=44347 * SuperJedi224 * (+45)
20:25:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44350&oldid=44326 * SuperJedi224 * (-7) /* Truth Machine */
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21:26:33 <zzo38> Is there program existing for use with Linux you can generate UUIDs that you can also set a different MAC address (it still has to be a device you have control over at the time mentioned in the UUID though, and is guaranteed not to generate its own UUIDs during that time)?
21:29:17 <ais523> zzo38: Linux's default UUID generator doesn't embed a MAC into it; however, a program like you want is probably easy to write
21:29:30 <zzo38> Actually I figured out there is a file /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid but I want a version 1 UUID
21:31:04 <ais523> the spec for a version 1 UUID is pretty simple
21:31:20 <zzo38> Yes, I know how it works
21:31:59 <zzo38> There is the issue of what to do during a leap second, but my idea would be just to sleep for 1 second if the current time is behind the recorded time by less than one second
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21:40:01 <S1> zzo38: I don't really get that leap second problem, could you please explain again for dummies?
21:40:31 <S1> First of all, what do you mean by "recorded time"?
21:41:44 <zzo38> I mean the timestamp of the last generated UUID
21:42:20 <S1> Ah now I get it
21:42:28 <S1> I mistranslated leap second
21:43:23 <S1> Hi, hppavilion[1] o7
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21:52:50 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making an evoltuion by natural selection simulator for a school project
21:54:09 <S1> If you are the one making the selection then it is not natural by definition
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21:54:39 <S1> I mean I'd not call it natural if you were even only to set the parameters
21:54:39 <fizzie> That's why it has the word "simulator" in it, I guess.
21:55:26 <hppavilion[1]> S1: Fair enough xD. It is Evolution by Digital Selection
21:55:39 <hppavilion[1]> It progresses as the result of some fairly primitive AI though
21:56:08 <S1> I was not talking about.... nevermind
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21:57:20 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, it isn't, strictly speaking, "nature", but it /is/ a self-contained little universe
21:59:05 <S1> No it's alright
22:00:35 <S1> Is it open source?
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22:02:54 <S1> hppavilion[1]:
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22:06:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44351&oldid=44329 * Timwi * (+6822) /* Lambda expressions */ Lazy-evaluated sequences.
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22:35:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44352&oldid=44351 * Timwi * (+4) /* Lambda expressions */ don’t look, embarrassing mistake
22:48:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44353&oldid=44352 * Timwi * (+0) /* Lambda expressions */
22:55:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/Lazy-evaluated sequences]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44354&oldid=44346 * Timwi * (+756) add ⌑
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23:09:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44355&oldid=44353 * Timwi * (+30) /* Lazy-evaluated sequences */
23:10:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44356&oldid=44355 * Timwi * (+4)
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