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00:51:50 <HackEgo> Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs.
00:52:27 <boily> because doesthiswork, tswett and int-e are being silly.
00:52:55 <boily> oh, and ais523 too.
00:53:24 <oerjan> but what did poor doesthiswork do
00:53:25 <ais523> I was just correcting typos IIRC
00:53:50 <tswett> How does Hack know what?
00:53:58 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/mothology
00:54:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'did:': did: didn't
00:55:14 <oerjan> bood what _is_ the proper greeting term in the middle of the night anywaily
00:56:40 <HackEgo> Learned 'did': did : didn't
00:57:07 <FireFly> `` for f in wisdom/*; do culprits $f | grep -q doesthiswork && echo $f; done
00:57:48 <tswett> `learn Bood was a form of currency used among bootleggers during Prohibition in the United States.
00:57:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'bood': Bood was a form of currency used among bootleggers during Prohibition in the United States.
00:59:05 <oerjan> FireFly: possibly culprits is too expensive to run over an entire directory without timeout
00:59:30 <oerjan> (or you may have messed up the command, what do i know)
01:00:16 <oerjan> `` for f in wisdom/mothology; do culprits $f | grep -q doesthiswork && echo $f; done
01:01:52 <oerjan> `` for f in wisdom/mothology; do culprits $f | grep doesthiswork && echo $f; done
01:02:25 <oerjan> `` for f in wisdom/mothology; do echo $f; done
01:03:24 <oerjan> `` for f in wisdom/mothology; do culprits $f; done
01:03:55 <oerjan> `` culprits wisdom/mothology 2>/dev/null
01:04:32 <oerjan> `` for f in wisdom/mothology; do culprits $f | grep doesthiswork ; done
01:04:51 <oerjan> it's the anti-pinging feature
01:05:03 <boily> there's an anti-pinging feature?
01:05:18 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
01:05:34 <FireFly> I should've remembered that
01:05:41 <HackEgo> Jafet Jafet tswett tswett shachaf shachaf shachaf FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly shachaf
01:07:04 <FireFly> `` for f in wisdom/*; do culprits $f | tr -d $'\x0F' | grep -q doesthiswork && echo $f; done # another attempt, then
01:07:27 <oerjan> we have, alas, two different candidates for that feature, that one is ignored by some clients, the other one messes up shachaf's terminal
01:07:56 <shachaf> It doesn't mess up this terminal.
01:08:02 <FireFly> it does highlight me, though
01:08:07 <shachaf> So while I'm not at work you can use it.
01:08:27 <FireFly> How come your terminal at work doesn't support Unicode anyway?
01:08:34 <FireFly> you'd think terminal emulators in this day and age would
01:08:46 <oerjan> shachaf: there's the slight problem that it's supposed be written once and for all hth
01:09:05 <HackEgo> Mon Oct 26 01:08:56 UTC 2015
01:09:25 <HackEgo> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 7th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3181
01:09:44 <shachaf> FireFly: I don't know, it's the default Mac OS X terminal.
01:12:45 <oerjan> does oren currently ping the person of that name?
01:13:41 <oerjan> ...he's asleep isn't he.
01:14:59 <oerjan> of course shachaf's terminal also messes up on every line HackEgo writes that starts with a non-alphanum.
01:15:26 <shachaf> That also messes that terminal up.
01:15:43 <FireFly> I think something might be wrong with its configuration, then
01:16:15 <oerjan> naturally, because that uses a ZWNS to avoid triggering myndzi
01:16:28 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
01:16:45 <oerjan> not that myndzi is all that triggerable these days.
01:17:16 <fungot> (\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/)S
01:23:01 <HackEgo> `culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY
01:23:29 <HackEgo> list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun!
01:23:51 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
01:24:13 <FireFly> Unfortunately `list is broken I think
01:24:51 <HackEgo> arrow/Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors.
01:25:08 <HackEgo> A monoid is the easy version of a category.
01:25:26 <FireFly> with only one object. lame.
01:25:35 <HackEgo> zombiecheney/ZombieCheney lives under a bridge.
01:25:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culprit: not found
01:26:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culprit: not found
01:26:36 <HackEgo> ngevd/ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also tswett‼
01:27:18 <boily> (that I will amend some time tomorrow and/or amodné.)
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01:31:47 <HackEgo> U,ØûÎjÊ ?À¾bãJH{nïØ©\Apk)b[4PBáÖºYòwö£`40ª+¸¥Iþàô.óó¡u|ÿÀèèMñüí¤2õàfÆ¢B8fùÜɶoÇxÉÓÐ%>Agy*âW£éæ9×;*N§´7tø=÷"vlèLKâ§ÿUÎæ \ ¸Ì'¦ÖƱo¥7Îi×(hE?I#7Äb¶VÏHÈÞ¯óç?ýóqü1#ÑlcNU»ãͧç&BÛ,rt:Ü\6lÌ5ÍlÉB³Ô2ëîºgO_¨è=6ÝgKòÎPâ|úY/m(æîûê=3ÚõÏÎ@=ÎØø
01:33:26 <oerjan> doesthiswork: tip: a file that has never existed has no culprits hth
01:34:13 <oerjan> i think that HackEgo line managed to put a right-to-left marker in
01:34:45 <oerjan> always amusing when irssi shows a time like 13:20
01:34:58 <oerjan> well, i supposed that one can happen naturally.
01:39:31 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan ais523 shachaf ais523 oerjan oerjan ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 ais523 shachaf int-e oerjan elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull c00kiemon5ter Phantom_Hoover elliott oerjan shachaf elliott ais523 elliott
01:40:34 <zzo38> SQLite now has support for eponymous virtual tables which seem like a useful shortcut (my JSON and RDF extensions should automatically work with this feature without needing to modify the codes of those extensions). There is also indexes for expressions, and list of column names following the view name, and expression subtypes.
01:41:27 <zzo38> And it now uses semantic version numbers. However, it seem they did not add support for a virtual table to read and override the LIMIT and OFFSET clauses.
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01:46:47 <zzo38> (The ability to for a virtual table implementation to consume a LIMIT and/or OFFSET clause would be mostly useful when it reads data accessed over the internet.)
01:48:40 <FireFly> oerjan: ah, yes, has to be a consequence of the DST switch
01:48:58 <FireFly> although 13:20 seems like a bit too big of a gap
01:49:31 <oerjan> (the actual time was 02:31 hth hth)
01:54:09 <ais523> oh wow, today's xkcd actually amused me, for the first time in a while
01:54:11 <ais523> that doesn't happen often
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02:00:29 <oerjan> what, xkcd has already updated?
02:00:37 * oerjan doesn't normally check this early.
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02:03:44 <GoToTell> "A tib is half of a bit. A stib is a negative half of a bit. " is that official?
02:04:12 <ais523> GoToTell: it's a reference to http://esolangs.org/wiki/TURKEY_BOMB I think
02:04:17 <ais523> either that, or inspired by it
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02:05:40 <ais523> and if you haven't seen TURKEY BOMB you should
02:05:54 <ais523> esolangs doesn't really have an article about it because it's kind-of impossible to replicate the catseye treatment of it
02:06:32 <GoToTell> I see "drinking game" so TURKEY BOMB is a movie?
02:08:16 <GoToTell> I guess not, that would be too simple.
02:08:32 <GoToTell> The catseye page reads insane.
02:09:50 <ais523> scroll down to "Data Types" for the relevant bit
02:10:07 <ais523> doesn't seem to have tib/stib but it has a bunch of other types in the same vein
02:15:40 <zzo38> It also seem like difficult/impossible to implement such thing
02:16:51 <GoToTell> I'm leaning towards impossible.
02:17:21 <ais523> there are physically possible realisations of much of the language
02:17:28 <ais523> I tried to implement the TURKEY BOMB itself (the type) in C++ once
02:18:12 <ais523> it's surprisingly hard to make a type that admits only one value that is a reference to itself, at least if you want to be able to dereference it by reading its bit pattern as a memory address /and/ you want to avoid overloading
02:33:25 <izabera> https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/108/ trying to solve this
02:33:55 <izabera> this is my code http://arin.ga/X1XiOB/raw and this is a test with their input http://arin.ga/oRgCrM/raw
02:34:28 <izabera> it produces the expected output on that, but the score is only 90%
02:36:32 <izabera> ..somehow i messed up the test case while pasting it http://arin.ga/ivbW3Y/raw
02:50:35 <izabera> fixed it <.< my insert mode was broken
02:50:57 <izabera> http://arin.ga/eupmlA/raw here it is <.<
02:55:31 <izabera> guys you have to try that site
02:55:38 <izabera> it's full of nice problems
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02:57:51 <FireFly> https://open.kattis.com/ is also fun if one likes competitive programming
02:59:00 <izabera> what is competitive programming?
02:59:36 <izabera> do you have an opponent and whoever finishes first wins?
03:00:16 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_programming
03:01:05 <FireFly> Usually there is a set of problems to solve, and the goal is to solve as many problems as possible within the event.. although time is used as a tie breaker
03:02:12 <HackEgo> rntz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:02:23 <FireFly> izabera: here's a good example: https://open.kattis.com/problems/islandhopping
03:02:35 <FireFly> of the type of task that competitive programming usually involves
03:02:36 <shachaf> I guess you've been here before.
03:03:15 <FireFly> izabera: usually the main focus is in coming up with an algorithm to solve the problem, and then implementing the algorithm.. so there's a lot of focus on algorithms and data structure knowledge
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03:19:29 <oerjan> > groupBy ((==)`on`(' '==))"usually the main focus is in coming up with an"
03:19:30 <lambdabot> ["usually"," ","the"," ","main"," ","focus"," ","is"," ","in"," ","coming","...
03:23:16 <FireFly> Hmm, it wasn't very clear to me that newlines should be ignored, in that terminal task
03:23:23 <FireFly> from the description, I mean
03:24:58 <FireFly> Well I also got 90 :P darn
03:25:10 <oerjan> > map head $ group "HeHe"
03:25:14 <izabera> FireFly: i had the same problem with newlines
03:25:54 <FireFly> It's tempting to look at your code to see what tripped you up for the 90→100p, but I'll try to figure it out first
03:26:01 <zzo38> You can look at card I make up, tell me if you think Wizards of the Coast will print them or not, and idea of favor text if you have, too
03:26:07 <FireFly> I think it might be an issue with my clear-til-end-of-line
03:26:28 <izabera> FireFly: "for the 90→100p" ??
03:26:49 <FireFly> Well, you only got 90% initially, right?
03:27:02 <FireFly> Anyway, I did something stupid
03:27:14 <izabera> i don't remember what the score
03:28:01 <FireFly> <izabera> it produces the expected output on that, but the score is only 90% ← this, I mean
03:29:12 <izabera> so people don't have to remember
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03:35:43 <FireFly> Somehow I got 90% even though I completely forgot to implement insert-mode...
03:36:51 <FireFly> Hm, your bash implementation is nicer and much shorter than my C one :P
03:37:24 <FireFly> well it's certainly shorter
03:37:35 <FireFly> although I didn't hardcode the size of the buffer in mine
03:37:48 <izabera> mine has to use eval for the 2d array
03:37:53 <FireFly> http://xen.firefly.nu/up/terminal.c.html if you're curious
03:42:20 <izabera> yours is much more professional...
03:44:31 <FireFly> It's sad that FizzBuzz has a 37% success rate on that site
03:44:39 <oerjan> i was sort of hoping it wasn't living, if nothing else then for its own sake
03:44:58 <izabera> FireFly: it's harder than the standard fizzbuzz
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03:54:15 <izabera> you can't just add eso in front of everything
03:58:14 <hppavilion[1]> - An animal that is different from anything you've ever seen
03:58:28 <hppavilion[1]> - A room that is different from anything you've ever seen
03:58:54 <izabera> does that mean that the second time you see an eso* thing, it's not eso anymore?
03:59:08 <hppavilion[1]> - A computer that is different from anything you've ever seen
03:59:22 <FireFly> I've seen #esoteric many times...
03:59:31 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: "Anything you've ever seen" excludes that thing itself because of well-founded set theory.
03:59:39 <izabera> a cat that look like an elephant wouldn't be an esocat
03:59:57 <pikhq> So, you're saying it should just be #teric then?
04:00:54 <izabera> well, assuming you've seen elephants
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04:25:38 <FireFly> Some of these easy tasks are a bit silly.. like https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/4/
04:26:12 <FireFly> I suppose it would be against the spirit of the question, but there doesn't seem to be anything stopping one from just hardcoding the answer
04:28:59 <izabera> https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/155/ about this one
04:30:20 <izabera> the first repeated 5-char string in their sample input is "he ne"
04:30:56 <izabera> i guess i'll have to check that it contains no space when decoded
04:32:50 <FireFly> Yes, and also that it is surrounded by non-letters probably
04:35:46 <FireFly> The lack of bounds on these tasks is a bit annoying
04:36:12 <FireFly> it doesn't state whether N might be negative, or whether a character + N might be >255, or ...
04:46:26 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/chaos{\?,}
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04:56:10 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1"
04:57:55 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/[?] /?[,.!?]\? /' bin/learn
04:58:00 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[,.!?]? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1"
04:58:14 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:58:22 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/[?] /?[,.!?]\\? /' bin/learn
04:58:28 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[,.!?]\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1"
04:58:52 <oerjan> `learn chaos? ¯\(° _o)/¯
04:58:54 <HackEgo> Learned 'chao': chaos? ¯\(° _o)/¯
04:59:26 <oerjan> i think it worked, anyhow
05:00:18 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/[[]/[:;/' bin/learn
05:00:29 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1"
05:01:43 <oerjan> `learn A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!
05:01:46 <HackEgo> Learned 'horse': A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!
05:02:18 <oerjan> `learn A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!
05:02:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'horse': A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!
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05:16:03 <shachaf> oerjan: do you have a kingdom?
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05:23:16 <FireFly> izabera: I took the liberty to add you on codeeval
05:24:37 <zzo38> Can you make the Fizzbuzz with TeX shorter than 142 (and with no error messages)?
05:31:21 <izabera> FireFly: uh ok thanks, i didn't really focus on the social side of that side
05:31:58 <izabera> did i just admit of having no life even on programming sites?
05:32:16 <zzo38> \newcount\-\let~\advance\day0\loop~\-1~\day1~\mit\ifnum\-=3\-0Fizz\fi\ifnum\fam=5Buzz\rm\fi\ifvmode\the\day\fi\endgraf\ifnum\day<`d\repeat\bye
05:32:56 <izabera> does tex count as esoteric?
05:33:41 <zzo38> Maybe it kind of does but not quite by completely?
05:33:43 <FireFly> I'd say it counts as esoteric if one uses it for something other than markup
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05:34:25 <izabera> does it count if you print fizzbuzz as the background of your thesis?
05:35:11 <zzo38> Even if you are typesetting a document you can use it for other stuff within the document too
05:38:45 <zzo38> Such as calculating when is Easter, parsing a set of chess moves, parsing a picture file, and auto-generating an index (I think it is more common to use an external program to generate the index, and then recompile the document again afterward)
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06:42:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Print "deadfish"]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44888&oldid=43947 * Oerjan * (+4) wikify, grm
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07:04:22 <izabera> FireFly: in your page, it says 93/6207 memory usage
07:05:03 <oerjan> it means he has 6114 memories left hth
07:09:08 <izabera> also in the right side of my leaderboard page, it says "Your profile is currently: NOT VISIBLE to employers."
07:09:52 * izabera is totally abusing the fact that someone is on that site
07:14:20 <FireFly> There was a thing in the settings for whether one is interested in job opportunities, I think
07:19:08 <izabera> FireFly: i tried that but it still says not visible :|
07:19:16 <nitrix> I'm looking for a esoteric language that's somewhat functional, lambda-calculus inspired maybe.
07:19:42 <nitrix> Concatenative (stack-based) would be great but not needed.
07:23:43 <FireFly> There's unlambda if you want combinatory logic
07:24:01 <FireFly> I think underload is concatenative
07:25:06 <FireFly> There's also joy, but that is less esoteric and more practical (although there's http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html which has a bit of an esoteric flavour to it, maybe)
07:25:14 <izabera> oddly specific requirements
07:27:18 <oerjan> nitrix: definitely underload
07:28:13 <nitrix> Oh that looks interest.
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07:31:11 <oerjan> there's also Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
07:31:31 <nitrix> I worked on XY, if you guys know it.
07:31:56 <oerjan> hm we don't seem to have a page on it...
07:31:57 <nitrix> http://www.nsl.com/k/xy/xy.htm
07:32:44 <nitrix> It's similar to cat-lang but it borrows a low from Lazy K. I joined the effort when it was almost complete.
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07:32:58 <izabera> what does the name "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" mean?
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07:33:04 <oerjan> hm concatenative with first class continuations - i think Burlesque has that
07:33:34 <oerjan> izabera: once upon a time a spammer made a page on our wiki by that name
07:33:52 <nitrix> It's great, it exhibit nice properties. I'm collecting ideas at the moment and see if I can invent my own this time.
07:33:59 <nitrix> I've been meaning to do this for a few years now.
07:34:13 <izabera> this is the best antispam strategy i've ever seen
07:38:18 <oerjan> nitrix: oh also Fueue which is a mad language Taneb made by replacing underload's stack with a queue. i'm the only one who has managed to program it.
07:38:31 <oerjan> (since i noticed XY has a queue)
07:39:40 <oerjan> (well, not just replacing, also added some arithmetic.)
07:39:57 <oerjan> let's say "inspired by"
07:42:12 <oerjan> eep, my brain isn't what it was.
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08:15:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[J-why]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44889&oldid=44603 * 82.116.252.148 * (+273)
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08:29:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[J-why]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44890&oldid=44889 * 82.116.252.148 * (+273) /* Secondary Rules */
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08:37:45 <lambdabot> int-e said 23h 5m 22s ago: I've installed some 32 bit libraries so your blsq executable should now work
08:38:38 <mroman> @tell int-e Yeah, the executable runs :)
08:48:55 <mroman> http://104.167.104.168/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi?q=3ro%29ro
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09:15:47 <fizzie> I still keep parsing it as "((Real Fast Nora's) Hair Salon ...) Download" and not "Real Fast (Nora's Hair Salon ...) Download".
09:16:32 <myname> i like the first one more tbh
09:16:43 <olsner> fizzie: the first one is the correct parsing :P
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09:18:31 <olsner> actually I think I parse it as "(Real Fast Nora's) Hair Salon 3: (Shear Disaster Download)"
09:19:59 <fizzie> IMDB suggests the originally intended parsing was the "Real Fast (...) Download", but I guess it's possible Taneb has changed it.
09:27:01 <fizzie> "Delicious (T. Ashanti Mozelle) is in charge of maintaining Nora s legacy and tradition by running & managing the shop. The dysfunctional group of hairstylists consisting of Janelle, Nina, Xenobia, Tashina, and manicurists Ming and Ling are still up to their old antics!"
09:27:23 <fizzie> "Ratings: 3.7/10 from 38 users"
09:27:27 <fizzie> It might not be a very good one.
09:27:40 <myname> but you can download it real fast
09:27:50 <Jafet> The summary doesn't sound all that disastrous.
09:28:00 <fizzie> Jafet: Well, that was just the setup.
09:28:09 <fizzie> "One day, reality show producer Charles (Miguel Nuñez) enters the shop. Captivated by the goings-on inside, he proposes that Nora s Hair Salon have its own show. Immediately, the salon crew signs on with hopes of money and fame, but they get more than they bargained for when they learn that Charles has ulterior motives. Now, the crew must come together to see that this reality tape never sees ...
09:28:15 <fizzie> ... the light of day."
09:28:34 <fizzie> I don't think it even has Nora in it.
09:29:37 <fizzie> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714080/
09:29:58 <b_jonas> oh, it's called just Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster
09:30:04 <b_jonas> I was trying to search for "Real Fast Nora's"
09:30:12 <b_jonas> so the "Real Fast" is about the download?
09:30:21 <fizzie> Yes, that's what the above discussion was about.
09:30:23 <Jafet> I wonder how many people have downloaded it (regardless of speed)
09:31:12 <b_jonas> I had thought the Real Fast was about the Saloon, as in, the hairdresser does your hair real quick.
09:31:22 <b_jonas> Even for complicated wedding hairdo.
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09:38:49 <oerjan> fizzie: iirc from previous discussions / imdb lookups, nora dies in the first movie
09:46:35 <oerjan> ah i must have found that on wikipedia
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09:51:20 <oerjan> wikipedia and imdb don't even agree what the 3rd movie is called :P
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10:05:05 <int-e> mroman: I'd have installed the libraries sooner, but I missed the discussion on friday (hilights don't work when the channel is currently active in irssi when one goes idle...)
10:06:39 <oerjan> int-e: oh and GG updated early
10:06:48 <mroman> Thank you very much for doing this.
10:07:19 <mroman> http://104.167.104.168/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi?q=|[12+23.%2By13%3F*Y]|
10:10:29 <int-e> mroman: does burlesque do any (intentional) file IO? It's currently running as the burlesque user...
10:13:55 <int-e> (otoh, I've imposed some mild resource limts: 256MB and 15 seconds CPU time... so at least there should not be any runaway processes)
10:17:10 <int-e> oerjan: bah... no news on the impending doom... V-gas, slaver engines... what's going to happen? I NEED TO KNOW!
10:17:19 <mroman> Burlesque has absolutely no I/O.
10:17:41 <mroman> The Burlesque Interpreter runs in State monad without I/O
10:18:21 <int-e> Ok, then I probably won't bother with sandboxing it any further :)
10:18:56 <mroman> unless someone finds a vulnerability in the haskell runtime
10:19:32 <int-e> yeah I won't rule that out; hence "intentional".
10:19:32 <mroman> runProgramNoStdin :: String -> String
10:21:25 <int-e> > 3 -- this is much, much, worse than that
10:23:06 <oerjan> int-e: well those things in the previous comic certainly _looked_ like slaver engines. miniature ones.
10:24:57 <int-e> so that's what happened to schlockmercenary.com ... not a conspiracy after all, whew. http://howardtayler.com/2015/10/that-dns-thingy-yesterday/
10:27:37 <oerjan> int-e: that's what they _want_ you to think.
10:27:44 <int-e> Hmm, I wonder... how could the master of Paris not know about this? Or does he?
10:27:55 <oerjan> that's a good question.
10:28:47 <oerjan> at the rate he must be getting overthrow attempts, he and his minions must be pretty good at it
10:28:47 <int-e> (also that's one of the worst parking sites I've ever seen... it demands that you enable Javascript!)
10:30:50 <fizzie> int-e: A bit conspirationally, the x.schlockapp.com site is missing this Monday's strip.
10:30:59 <int-e> Oh well, I really love the intense, grim look of Madame Velix in Friday's comic.
10:31:12 <fizzie> (It appeared in my Feedly feed, but the image never loads in Feedly, and I still get the parking page.)
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10:37:01 <int-e> fizzie: well, the comic is there; I've added this to /etc/hosts: http://sprunge.us/dGEB
10:38:02 <int-e> but apparently the bogus name servers are cached for 2, perhaps even 3 days.
10:47:50 <int-e> alternative way of getting the comic: curl -O -H "Host: static.schlockmercenary.com" http://174.142.197.113/comics/schlock20151026.jpg
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11:03:08 <Lyka> INSERT @00000000 : START : WHILE A A : GO 0x00000600 : GO 0x00000700
11:03:11 <Lyka> INSERT @00000600 : STRSET $LIDIOT "Lyka is an idiot."
11:03:13 <Lyka> INSERT @00000700 : CONOUT $LIDIOT
11:03:21 <Lyka> My program language in non-asm mode:
11:03:34 <boily> Hellyka! you're an idiot?
11:03:45 <Lyka> (okay, the first line came out last...)
11:04:41 <Lyka> does one not self-depricate code?
11:04:53 <int-e> wow, wisdom has gone two months without updates
11:05:36 <int-e> (and is, therefore, completely uninfested by moths)
11:05:40 * Lyka does not understand.
11:05:47 <int-e> hmm, s/moths/moth myths/
11:05:58 <int-e> Lyka: the pdf in the topic
11:06:03 <int-e> boily maintains it
11:06:17 <boily> fsvo maintains. I'm a few weeks late.
11:06:47 <HackEgo> dc/dc is short for "dump core". (try it out yourself: dc -e '[')
11:07:28 <Lyka> accidentally changed my screen res to 640x480
11:08:34 <int-e> nostalgia is 720x348 amber...
11:08:40 <Lyka> oh, just 1024x768
11:08:47 <Lyka> but it felt like...
11:09:05 <boily> 320x200. I had colours! COLOURS! 16 of 'em!
11:09:53 <int-e> CGA? EGA hat 640x350...
11:10:15 <Lyka> i never used a pre-vga machine
11:10:42 <Lyka> (except for an apple IIe)
11:11:13 <int-e> boily: it really didn't; you needed VGA or vendor extensions for that.
11:11:54 <int-e> (these details are such a waste of brain capacity)
11:12:02 <Lyka> VGA was 640x480x4 (16-bit color)
11:12:34 <Lyka> My first computer was SVGA
11:13:06 <Lyka> s/16-bit color/16 colors/
11:15:11 <Lyka> can you understand the hydra hcode language as i typed it?
11:15:36 <Hoolootwo> the first computer I owned and learned to program with had 96x64
11:17:11 * Lyka inserts tasteless comment that makes her realize she is not fit to be online at the moment
11:20:03 * Lyka must decide between exiting his bed and lying back down on it
11:26:14 <gamemanj> "WHILE A A"? Though the "GO"s make sense, there's nothing returning from them... and INSERT @00000600 when 0x00000600 is around is confusing
11:26:29 <boily> Lyka: understand the mattress. cherish the pillow. stare at the detailed ceiling.
11:27:02 <gamemanj> boily: embrace the ceiling's many aspects. understand the world. close the world...
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11:36:15 <Lyka> WHILE A A ; While A == A
11:37:18 <Lyka> INSERT @00000600 ; Insert the asm code that this is shorthand for starting at position 0x00000600
11:39:56 <Lyka> or, i could stick to "SET 04 00 01 GADR 00 00 01 00 02 00 03 00 JINZ 04 00 00 00 01 00 02 00 03 00" like stuff
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13:16:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QO]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44891&oldid=44877 * Zdimension * (+184) Added = operator
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14:39:43 <b_jonas> \oren\: I don't see the rotated long vowel sign, or the rotated Chinese dot and comma.
14:40:01 <b_jonas> \oren\: and is that really "Deseret and Shavian alphabets"? It looks as if it was only Deseret, or something
14:40:22 <b_jonas> there are some shavian letters
14:40:30 <b_jonas> I dunno, I don't understand this stuff
14:41:27 <Taneb> b_jonas: I can sympathize, I'm in a lecture about representing a chomsky grammar as a graph grammar
14:41:59 <Taneb> I don't understand this stuff
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15:14:13 <mroman> What's the highest-level brainfuck outthere?
15:16:35 <Taneb> Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I'm understanding the question
15:17:34 <mroman> Like brainfuck derivatives that make it little less brainfucky
15:18:04 <mroman> brainfuck "derivatives"
15:18:08 <mroman> or brainfuck extensions
15:18:19 * int-e is tempted to say "Mathematica" (or some other CAS)... and wait for objections
15:19:09 <Taneb> `? stephen wolfram
15:19:10 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
15:19:23 <int-e> Okay I'll admit that I was hoping for justifications as well.
15:19:43 <Taneb> int-e: Wolfram language is higher-level
15:19:46 <int-e> What? How can I be wrong about my hopes...
15:20:00 <Taneb> Oh, they're the same thing
15:20:05 <mroman> I don't know, but it's certainly possible to be wrong about hopes.
15:20:10 <Taneb> Wikipedia's CSS seems to have failed
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15:20:41 <mroman> Is there a brainfuck derivative that uses the tape like a mix between a stack and a tape?
15:21:00 <mroman> i.e. it's a stack but with < > you can manipulate the stack pointer
15:22:09 <mroman> (so technically all brainfuck programs would run perfectly fine, at least the ones in normal form)
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15:23:43 <mroman> but there would be additional commands like adding two numbers on the stack
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15:24:55 <Taneb> mroman: the Ook! derivative I wrote a long time ago had some stuff like that
15:25:08 <Taneb> Although it had two tapes that moved independently rather than a stack
15:25:28 <int-e> I guess you could also traverse a tree... this may have been done
15:25:34 <int-e> ...or a grid, for that matter
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16:08:43 <mroman> *Main> run "+++>++++>++aa@n"
16:08:57 <mroman> (a is an addition, @ show number, n show newline)
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16:38:15 <Taneb> Maths vocabulary is fun sometimes
16:38:27 <Taneb> Just had a lecturer ask "How many of you have come across bags?"
16:38:49 <int-e> does he mean multisets?
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16:43:29 <int-e> I remember a talk where the presenter was visibly happy that he finally found "the right" notation for bags: ⟅ ... ⟆
16:44:46 <shachaf> So the natural numbers are a free semilattice generated by powers of 2.
16:44:48 <HackEgo> [U+27C5 LEFT S-SHAPED BAG DELIMITER] [U+27C6 RIGHT S-SHAPED BAG DELIMITER]
16:45:01 <shachaf> And the positive naturals are a free commutative monoid generated by the primes.
16:45:36 <shachaf> What other exciting free structures do they have?
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16:46:31 <int-e> what about the basic one (free monoid)?
16:46:45 <shachaf> You mean, free monoid generated by a singleton set?
16:46:46 <int-e> with one generator.
16:47:20 <int-e> also, any free countable thing... by definition of countability ;)
16:47:37 <shachaf> this is why parametricity is great
16:47:48 <shachaf> it doesn't let you play those tricks
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16:52:35 <shachaf> Maybe the conaturals have something? You have structure with min/infty and and so on.
16:52:57 <shachaf> liftA2 mappend/pure mempty for ZipList ()
16:55:46 <shachaf> maybe that would be a cofree thing, because it's codata?
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16:57:44 <Taneb> The skeleton of the category of morphisms between finite vector spaces over the reals is I think equivalent to the naturals
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17:00:00 <shachaf> that is true but objects aren't important
17:00:26 <shachaf> all you're saying is that there are countably infinitely many objects?
17:00:32 <shachaf> the skeleton of the category of finite sets and functions between them also has naturals as objects
17:00:46 <shachaf> an arrow : N -> M is an N-tuple of numbers <M
17:00:55 <shachaf> composition is pointwise indexing
17:01:00 <quintopia> this is when i wish i understood category theory
17:01:10 <quintopia> where did oyu guys learn all this stuff
17:01:19 <shachaf> i learned it all from Taneb
17:01:53 <Taneb> quintopia: I learnt it all from shachaf
17:01:57 <Taneb> who inspired me to invent it
17:03:06 <int-e> Who invented Taneb?
17:03:10 <shachaf> quintopia: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1501.02503v2.pdf hth
17:03:12 <Taneb> int-e: my parents, I think
17:03:13 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of five genders, and voluminous but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
17:03:34 <shachaf> `` rgrep 'invented Taneb' wisdom
17:03:35 <HackEgo> wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
17:03:48 <HackEgo> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her.
17:03:54 -!- Taneb has changed nick to nitia.
17:04:11 <HackEgo> The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets and tiny elfs.
17:04:40 <int-e> I'd say nitia was discovered, not invented.
17:04:47 <quintopia> well, nitia only indirectly, by inventing BBC
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17:05:06 <nitia> The set of all things is not a set. nitia invented it
17:05:40 <quintopia> long before Russell and Whitehead broke it
17:08:19 -!- nitia has changed nick to nvd.
17:09:05 <HackEgo> nvd is what Taneb calls himself when he wants to feel professional.
17:09:20 <shachaf> nvd: what is your profession
17:09:24 <nvd> shachaf: student
17:09:27 <quintopia> you all learned category theory from david madore. it all makes sense now.
17:10:17 <nvd> shachaf: also person who helps people be students
17:11:36 <nvd> quintopia: do you regularly go to a place of education?
17:11:41 <nvd> If so, in what capacity?
17:13:31 <nvd> I would suggest that that is the wrong capacity
17:13:42 <nvd> Try attending in the capacity of being a student
17:14:29 <quintopia> i have tried. i've told my students to be the tutors instead and teach me, but they don't seem to know category theory either
17:15:30 <int-e> Right, don't take action; be a bystander. Showing interest is optional.
17:16:09 <int-e> it's the teacher's job to make you learn
17:17:26 <quintopia> yeah that's the worst part of teaching
17:17:32 <int-e> (disclaimer: the statements above are my own but do not necessarily reflect my opinion)
17:17:46 <quintopia> if i ran the place, i'd just kick out everyone who wasn't willing to take an active role in their education
17:18:12 <shachaf> nvd: Should I be a student?
17:18:30 <nvd> shachaf: do you want to learn?
17:18:37 <izabera> you can be anything you want
17:19:16 <nvd> shachaf: then why not be a student
17:19:16 * izabera sends quintopia in a corner
17:19:23 <shachaf> nvd: takes up a lot of time
17:19:33 <nvd> Be a night student!
17:19:41 <shachaf> takes up time at night too
17:20:09 <nvd> There is more time at night than during the day
17:20:09 <izabera> it's a punishment corner for educational purposes
17:20:25 <nvd> Because it's after the autumn equinox in the northern hemispher
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17:29:21 <shachaf> quintopia: you could read Leinster's _Basic Category Theory_
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17:29:36 <nvd> I've been reading Schubert's Category Theory
17:29:44 <nvd> It's... not a good introductory text
17:29:51 <shachaf> quintopia: come Jan 01 it'll be available on the Internet for free
17:29:55 <nvd> I prefer his music
17:29:57 <shachaf> but you can already get it as a book
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17:42:28 <zzo38> Make SQLite extension for accessing various kind of external data, such as weather and finance and perhaps various different search engines for specific kind of stuff.
17:43:36 <shachaf> Why does that belong in SQLite?
17:44:06 <zzo38> It does not belong in the SQLite core, but it can be use in extensions.
17:44:56 <lambdabot> LOWI 261720Z VRB02KT CAVOK 09/07 Q1018 NOSIG
17:45:15 <zzo38> Therefore you don't need to use web-browser and so on to access, just using SQL to access it instead and you can even use multiple sources (including local data) together, making backups of data, etc. In some cases you may even want to be able to send data to the server; a virtual table can be read/write so this is possible.
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17:48:15 <zzo38> It would be useful if SQLite had the way for a virtual table to consume LIMIT/OFFSET clauses (especially when used with remote data accessed over internet), although a few considerations must be made in order to do so: [1] The SQLite core may add implicit LIMIT/OFFSET, for example in a scalar subquery. [2] If the virtual table cannot consume the ORDER BY clause, then it will not be able to consume the LIMIT/OFFSET clause either.
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18:45:41 <b_jonas> Battle for Zendikar has an Ur-Golem's Eye with a 4/4 body for {5}
18:47:44 <b_jonas> Also an instant for {7} with “Exile target permanent.”
18:48:55 <b_jonas> Also a couple of cards that can put an opponent's exiled cards (including suspended etc) to graveyard.
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19:18:49 <izabera> stop talking about your yugioh cards
19:20:36 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, but "yugioh" is the correct derogatory term in this context when you want to annoy M:tG players
19:20:59 <gamemanj> hmm... "MtG is an esoteric card-based co-programming language, meant to be executed by hand between a set of human beings."
19:21:49 <b_jonas> or more like tease them, rather than annoy
19:21:52 <gamemanj> "The flow of the program is determined by randomness and the strategic choices those humans make, along with the sets of cards."
19:22:21 <gamemanj> "Thus, MtG is not entirely deterministic. It is likely to be possible to predict all potential flows through a program, but not to determine the flow that will occur."
19:22:41 <zzo38> How many non-scheming players should normally play in a Archenemy game?
19:22:52 <gamemanj> "The output of the program is the information on which human 'won' the game."
19:23:06 <shachaf> The game might nonterminate.
19:23:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: all players available, I say
19:26:01 <b_jonas> I'd like an Unscar card (hybrid Battlegrowth), that is, an instant for {W/G} with “Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature”
19:26:31 <gamemanj> shachaf: The game terminates when the humans are.
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19:27:13 <gamemanj> (read: even if you an MtG program ran forever, when the humans died, it wouldn't be running, would it?)
19:27:46 <b_jonas> gamemanj: humans manipulating physical cards or MTGO are just the usual ways to execute the program
19:28:04 <b_jonas> just like how compiling, linking, and then running the linked program is just the usual way to run a C program
19:28:25 <b_jonas> the game rules model is abstract and well-defined regardless the humans,
19:28:33 <b_jonas> so you can talk about a game without humans playing
19:31:15 <b_jonas> there's two separate documents, the game rules and the tournament rules. the game rules (which is like the C standard) describes the abstract flow of the game. the tournament rules describe a way humans can play with physical cards, how they have to represent the state of the game, and what the judges shall do when they make mistakes or cheat deliberately.
19:31:43 <b_jonas> but the tournament rules isn't the only way you can play the game defined by the game rules.
19:32:10 <b_jonas> (in addition, the tournament rules also describes tournament structure, drafts, deck checks, and stuff like that.)
19:32:28 <b_jonas> (those are things that happen between or outside games)
19:33:47 <gamemanj> So MtG may as well come with a programming language for the rules, then. Noted...
19:33:59 <b_jonas> In particular, the tournament rules say that during the game, the players must not use note made before the game, but only notes they made during the game. This is for practical reasons, to speed up matches, but if you start programming M:tG, you don't want to play that way.
19:34:44 <b_jonas> This isn't really unique to M:tG. Chess or contact bridge also have abstract game rules and tournament rules, though in those cases they might be in the same document.
19:36:04 <b_jonas> (Chess has like a hundred different rules documents, because the chess association of each country has a separate one.)
19:44:22 <b_jonas> The tournament rules also imply that some tournament games don't map to games valid in the game rules, because for some accidental mistakes, the judges can continue the game from an invalid game derivation.
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19:44:59 <b_jonas> However, you can't deliberately play an invalid game, because if you do, that counts as cheating, so the judge has to award you at least a game loss, likely worse.
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20:02:11 <b_jonas> A white Assassinate? What the heck? Why are they printing all creature removal in white now?
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20:41:28 <Taneb> Trivia: porting a C doubly linked list to Haskell is not easy
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21:35:12 <Taneb> Our website now supports https
21:35:45 <Taneb> I'm doing joint honours Maths and CS
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21:40:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i need someone to supervise my project and it's between him and someone else
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21:53:31 <Taneb> Oooh, that's a thing I need to do
21:53:38 <Taneb> (choose who to supervise my project)
21:53:43 <Taneb> I'd suggest choosing a better project
21:59:58 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
22:00:33 <Taneb> https://hacksoc.org/ check out that delicious SSL
22:01:32 <boily> yes? what about it?
22:01:54 <boily> oh! it's let'sencrypted!
22:02:19 <Taneb> Our infrastructure guy got on the beta
22:03:10 <boily> Nom alternatif du sujet du certificat, nom DNS: runciman.hacksoc.org.
22:03:34 <Taneb> runciman is the name of our shell server
22:03:40 <Taneb> With user webspace
22:03:48 <Taneb> It's where my esolangs page lives
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22:05:35 <Taneb> In that case, I suggest choosing a better university
22:05:38 <Taneb> Might I recommend York?
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22:06:12 <Taneb> (University of, that is, otherwise you might bump into oren)
22:06:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, fuck off your underwater hockey team is mediocre
22:07:11 <Taneb> That is a fair point
22:08:17 <Phantom_Hoover> though they're hosting student nationals this year so do not tell them i said that
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22:08:49 <Taneb> I'm afraid I don't follow underwater hockey too closely
22:09:16 <boily> \oren\: \helloren\. you york?
22:09:42 <Taneb> boily, I believe \oren\ is or was associated with York University
22:09:52 <Taneb> Which is a completely different establishment
22:10:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, well yes, you can't really see anything unless you are also underwater
22:14:25 <Taneb> That sounds like a lot of effort
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22:52:21 <tswett> Porting a C linked list to Haskell?
22:52:21 <tswett> I dunno, wouldn't that be a matter of, like...
22:52:45 <tswett> data DLL a = DLL a (Ptr a) (Ptr a)
22:53:01 <tswett> data DLL a = DLL a (Ptr (DLL a)) (Ptr (DLL a))
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22:58:56 <Taneb> `wisdom tanebventions
22:58:57 <HackEgo> find: `wisdom/*tanebventions*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory
22:59:03 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, robots, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
22:59:16 <Taneb> `fundamental theorem of tanebventions
22:59:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fundamental: not found
22:59:21 <Taneb> `?fundamental theorem of tanebventions
22:59:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?fundamental: not found
22:59:23 <Taneb> `? fundamental theorem of tanebventions
22:59:24 <HackEgo> fundamental theorem of tanebventions? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:00:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RENEWED CHICKEN).
23:03:21 <HackEgo> Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb.
23:13:31 -!- Wright has joined.
23:23:05 <HackEgo> This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it.
23:23:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/wisdom
23:25:25 <HackEgo> native/The natives are restless, also armed with sed.
23:25:44 <HackEgo> lord/The way of the Lord is not just.
23:25:51 <HackEgo> bfjoust/bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric.
23:26:31 <FireFly> `` echo wisdom/* | tr -dc \ | wc -c
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23:27:46 <FireFly> There are probably better ways to figure out how many elements a glob expands to
23:28:25 <FireFly> `` tmp=(wisdom/*); echo ${#tmp}
23:34:17 <\oren\> boily: no, I'm an alumnus of UofT, but my dad works at York U
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23:45:46 <\oren\> Can one use proliferate to charage up planeswalkers faster?
23:46:00 <tswett> Hey, what happens when damage is dealt to a planeswalker creature?
23:51:09 <\oren\> it loses loyalty counters
23:56:59 <tswett> Does a planeswalker creature necessarily have toughness?