00:04:02 <zzo38> That should be easily enough to do: In your font define one character to have a negative width and an empty glyph, and then define ligatures which can be use to have its own glyph for a(combine)^ if it has one.
00:05:52 <zzo38> No need to tamper with Unicode at all. My own idea about an advanced font metric format, you would be able to do these things, as well as implement the rules of Unicode too, and more.
00:09:02 <zzo38> I would have the metric file also be used to convert metrics into glyphs; the glyphs would be a separate format and can be independent of the metric format. Hyphenation is also separate, but may interact with metrics.
00:11:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45371&oldid=45295 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+13) /* Instructions */
00:23:13 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
00:28:07 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'll develop a pseudo programming language made to help people learn programmatical thinking in an esoteric way
00:28:54 <hppavilion[1]> Either that or an RPG game engine. Or maybe they'll be merged.
00:33:50 <izabera> he'll develop an RPG game engine with a pseudo programming language made to help people learn programmatical thinking in an esoteric way, hth
00:42:52 <FireFly> zzo38: yes, but such a character would be a good substitute for many existing unicode characters. My suggestion was that it should've been designed that way from the start IMO
00:43:00 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:43:59 <FireFly> And using negative width and an empty glyph would restrict it to only one font, and I don't think that would work at all with variable-width fonts?
00:46:42 <zzo38> You can add kerns to make it work with variable-width fonts. While it is restricted to having the accent in the same font as the letter, you can still use it with multiple fonts otherwise.
00:47:13 <zzo38> (And the "(combine)" character also has to exist in that font too)
00:48:50 -!- jaboja has joined.
00:51:00 <Melvar> FireFly: I don’t think a character with such a squishy semantic would fly.
00:51:30 <Melvar> Also, you’d need to combine with ˆ, not ^, to get ̂.
00:52:21 <FireFly> We have combining characters already; I don't see how a dedicated "combine" character is worse than separate dedicated "combining foo" characters that we currently have
00:53:04 <FireFly> The one I proposed seems more flexible to me since in essence you get a combining version of every character for free
00:53:26 <FireFly> zzo38: good point about kerning. That would work
00:53:49 <Melvar> “for free”, hahahahaha!
00:54:20 <FireFly> Well. Of course, if you want it to look good the font has to manually support it as a ligature and design a glyph for it
00:55:08 <FireFly> But I mean in the sense that you don't have to request Unicode to allocate a combining character and then wait for a new Unicode standard
00:55:15 <zzo38> In kind of format I was describing you could do with dedicated combining characters too, but in a fixpitch font you may certainly include a backspace character as well
00:55:45 <Melvar> Of course you do! You still have to wait for the new standard which says that this combination is now defined as thus …
00:56:12 <zzo38> In my scheme you won't have to tamper with Unicode at all; you are not even required to use Unicode, although you can if you wish to, or even define an extension of Unicode in order to make it compatible with Unicode texts.
00:56:20 <Melvar> Else your stuff just says “you can’t combine these two”.
00:57:03 <zzo38> However, if you are using Unicode then you still need to define all of the relevant Unicode rules in the font metric file, that are applicable to your font (or use an include file, possibly)
00:57:16 <FireFly> That's why I suggested a fallback would be to just literally overstrike one glyph over the other (which would probably often not look good), and use something like ligatures for the ones supported
00:57:33 <Melvar> Or, alternatively, you get fonts deciding differently what some combination should mean, which counters the whole point of standardization.
00:58:05 <FireFly> I don't see how "a (combine) circumflex" could be interpreted as anything other than what's currently known as "a circumflex"
00:58:40 <FireFly> Melvar: don't we have the same issue today with things like "(random CJK glyph) (combining circumflex above)" ?
00:58:57 <FireFly> or, worse, (emoji) (combining circumflex above)
00:59:10 <zzo38> Melvar: If you wish the fonts to be comatible then you will define the font according to some standard that is matching other font using, but some font there is no point to do such thing so you would just define your own instead.
00:59:38 <FireFly> As far as I know, combining characters aren't restricted specially? and I can't imagine (all printables) × (all combining codepoints) are specified separately (× being cartesian product)
00:59:49 <Melvar> But we don’t have “right arrow (combine) up arrow” which could mean two things off the top of my head, and probably more.
01:00:55 <zzo38> It depends much on what interoperability is required.
01:01:03 <Melvar> Compare these two: ↲ ↵
01:01:25 <FireFly> is that "arrow down left" and "symbol for carriage return" or something?
01:01:57 <Melvar> DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH TIP LEFTWARDS and DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH CORNER LEFTWARDS, in fact.
01:02:37 <zzo38> If needed, just to write the document, and the font can say it follows that document. Unicode is one such kind of document; it may not define all such thing but may define many things, and some fonts may be defined according to multiple document, or according to none at all if they require unique symbols or whatever reason you might not need any.
01:02:47 <FireFly> They both look like triangles to me (the arrowhead I mean)
01:03:01 <Melvar> There’s additionally RETURN SYMBOL: ⏎
01:03:13 <Melvar> The difference is in the proportion of the two sections.
01:03:39 <FireFly> I guess one could have left arrow, short left arrow
01:04:13 <Melvar> Indeed, the latter of the two “may indicate a carriage return or new line”.
01:07:24 <Melvar> Oh, here’s ⤶ ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING LEFTWARDS which unlike those, curves instead of having a corner.
01:08:25 <hppavilion[1]> He stepped on the right of my keyboard, hitting "up" then "enter"
01:11:19 -!- idris-bot has joined.
01:14:49 -!- heroux has joined.
01:18:44 <FreeFull> RETURN SYMBOL seems to be hollow
01:27:13 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:32:40 <oerjan> @tell mroman <mroman> except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses <-- that sounds to me like almost the exact opposite of the natural language meaning
01:33:18 <oerjan> @tell mroman because there, syntax is how you place words, but _not_ how words are composed.
01:33:43 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
01:36:46 <oerjan> damn, why do i have to @tell before finishing reading the conversation...
01:43:08 <\oren\> Jesus christ, paris is in martial law
01:43:22 -!- heroux has joined.
01:43:33 <\oren\> My mom has been calling people she knows there
01:44:19 <\oren\> they've declared a curfew and soldiers are searching the streets
01:44:19 -!- ProofTechnique has joined.
01:47:06 <zzo38> I have heard about stuff in Paris on the radio just few minutes ago
01:47:48 <\oren\> My mom has just confirmed at least that everyone she knows in paris is safe
01:48:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:53:47 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
02:01:23 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:08:34 -!- boily has joined.
02:11:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
02:14:36 <lambdabot> CYQB 140200Z 24011KT 15SM FEW015 OVC063 04/02 A2940 RMK SC1SC7 SLP959
02:14:41 <lambdabot> ENVA 140150Z 11005KT CAVOK M00/M03 Q0993 RMK WIND 670FT 14008KT
02:18:39 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
02:19:28 <lambdabot> CYYZ 140200Z 30016G24KT 15SM SCT034 OVC059 04/M01 A2980 RMK SC4SC4 VIA CYOW SLP094
02:19:41 -!- heroux has joined.
02:24:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
02:25:10 <boily> fungot. can't find anything about "VIA".
02:25:11 <fungot> boily: from two different systems.
02:25:21 <boily> fungot: it is so. Canadian METARs are weird.
02:25:22 <fungot> boily: not just for angsty 14-year-olds anymore
02:25:47 <boily> fungot: I haven't been 14 since twelve years ago.
02:25:47 <fungot> boily: out of curiosity, why would that matter?) it didn'
02:26:03 <boily> fungot: becose twelve years is a non-homeopathic span of time hth
02:26:04 <fungot> boily: haven't had anybody tell me where your source is at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/ viewcvs.py/ fnord but 404 on http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/ this one?: check that first item of l1 is now size, and fills it with zeros?....
02:26:16 <boily> fungot: CVS? on SF? uuuuuurgh!
02:26:48 <boily> https://www.fltplan.com/abbreviations.htm seem to be a good source, with substantially more abbreviations than what's available on wikipédia, but nothing about VIA.
02:26:54 * boily grmbls and mumbles and rants
02:28:05 <boily> oh wait! it's there! "BY WAY OF". the bastards.
02:28:17 <boily> pikhelloq. hah to you too :P
02:28:54 <boily> so what is via Ottawa. there are federal clouds invading Toronto?
02:29:43 <boily> \oren\: do you think Justing owns a weather machine and is controlling Ontarian climate?
02:29:54 <boily> s/Junsting/Justin/
02:42:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45372&oldid=45353 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ The previous edit to this was a mistake.
02:43:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DISPLACER CHICKEN).
02:51:29 -!- andrew has joined.
03:09:32 <izabera> this is a 10 years step back in international negotiations
03:09:46 <izabera> now with the migrant crisis
03:11:32 <izabera> police reported all the attackers have been killed
03:13:57 <FireFly> I agree, re. step back in international negotiations
03:14:22 <FireFly> I wonder if the consequences of this will be akin to those for 9/11 in some sense
03:15:26 <\oren\> Marine le pen might become the leader of france in the next election
03:17:27 <\oren\> France has an aircraft carrier and their own fighter jets. it's certainly not unthinkable that they could cooperate with putin to wipe out Daesh/ISIS/ISIL/WTFBBQ
03:18:59 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
03:28:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
03:29:14 <coppro> \oren\: NATO article 5 could be invoked
03:29:20 <zzo38> Muslims should need to work to defeat them too
03:30:11 <zzo38> Of course everyone does but Muslims especially should go against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh
03:36:50 <izabera> is there any estimate of the number of people in those groups?
03:38:57 * izabera found the answer on google and it's 200k
03:42:44 <zzo38> Probably they are, yes. But what I am saying is everyone (whether Christian, atheist, etc) can go against them, but primarily it seem it would be job of Muslims. This way might result in being very defeated instead of just being defeated, or maybe I am unclear or confuse or something else
03:47:28 <izabera> what's the difference between defeated and very defeated?
03:51:40 <doesthiswork> if you can't spin your defeat into martyrdom then you are very defeated.
03:52:04 <FireFly> izabera: huh, I would guess a lot more considering how big a territory the control
03:53:55 <zzo38> izabera: I am not completely sure what it is nor do I know how to explain even if I do know, that is why I say I am a bit confused. But you other people on here are also making some points about it too; it isn't everything but they are some points too anyways.
03:57:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:57:46 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNvGNRlFaE
03:58:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aubergine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45373&oldid=45354 * Quintopia * (+29) /* Examples */
03:59:21 <izabera> why am i watching a video like that
04:01:25 <\oren\> It's nice isn't it? Celtic-style folk music
04:01:43 <izabera> yeah they're much better than i thought at first
04:02:48 <Sgeo> Why does this subreddit exist https://www.reddit.com/r/truetictactoe
04:02:54 <Sgeo> I guess it's a parody of game subreddits?
04:04:32 <izabera> doesn't even look like a parody
04:04:51 <Sgeo> izabera, X was nerfed?
04:05:31 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueTicTacToe/comments/3gdw6x/im_new_here_can_someone_explain_me_all_the_rules/
04:05:38 <Sgeo> "IMO you really should watch about 50-60 hours of pro streams on twitch and read every guide on every forum, then get to where you can beat 2 insane/cheater AI at once before you even consider a real game. You're just going to frustrate everyone else around you."
04:06:00 <FireFly> Their headwear reminds me of moonbowmusicmovie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG7yuQ9MQ2s
04:06:34 <Sgeo> Some genuinely interesting things though
04:07:01 <zzo38> Is there the SQL RPG engine?
04:07:10 <Sgeo> Pure CSS tic-tac-toe
04:07:21 <FireFly> (they do a lot of acoustic arranges of videogame music too)
04:07:30 <zzo38> To make RPG computer game with SQL, using the game engine program to support such thing
04:07:31 <Sgeo> (Well, actually different source that gets compiled into CSS I think)
04:08:17 <FireFly> \oren\: you might enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIV70shV8Sw
04:13:52 <zzo38> OK, now my DVI->PBM program is working!!!
04:15:49 <zzo38> Do you mean goal of such program?
04:16:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
04:17:47 <zzo38> It is to convert DVI into PBM.
04:18:07 <zzo38> One use of such a thing would be to print on printers that use host-based printing.
04:18:31 <hppavilion[1]> How do type systems correspond to logic systems? Anyone have a paper on that?
04:18:56 <FireFly> Wadler has a talk on.. er, not on that, but one slide has a table about that
04:18:56 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: I wanted to know that too.
04:20:00 <FireFly> Hmm, actually the part on temporal logic might've been something he mentioned was still an open problem
04:20:40 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: I expressed what I was saying properly, correct? Like, I've heard that most languages are based on classical logic
04:20:46 <zzo38> hppavilion[2]: Both
04:21:05 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Ah. Temporal type system? I've heard that that's reactive programming
04:21:25 <zzo38> But can it be explained how that works?
04:21:40 <FireFly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOiZatlZtGU#t=40m30s has a table mentioning some different (logic, type system) pairs
04:21:41 <zzo38> I have heard that too, but it does not explain how that is.
04:22:02 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any types of logic cooler than temporal logic?
04:22:32 <FireFly> At least a lot more weird than its name would suggest
04:22:57 <FireFly> Featuring concepts such as "of course" and "why not", I would say it might classify as an esologic
04:23:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: most languages are based on _intuitionistic_ logic. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that last this was discussed.
04:23:23 <oerjan> for a certain value of "based"
04:23:42 <zzo38> With classical logic, can make continuations too
04:24:08 <doesthiswork> \oren\ the floating cloud video is interesting, as it continued it sounded more and more strange because it didn't have the structure I expected
04:25:56 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Like, could Linear Temporal logic be a thing?
04:27:43 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_temporal_logic
04:30:40 <hppavilion[1]> Esolang idea: Type system based on Linear-Temporal-Quantum-Probabalistic Logic.
04:40:12 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any useful constructions that use Graph Theory as a "Foundations of Mathematics"?
04:40:22 <hppavilion[1]> For example, arithmetic defined in terms of graphs?
04:44:06 <FireFly> You could probably define integers based on the length of lists (c.f. cardinality of sets), and lists without duplicates are a special case of graphs (straight-line graphs)
04:44:38 <FireFly> so if nothing else you could probably do it like that, but that's kinda boring
04:48:28 <hppavilion[1]> I want to try to make a language vaguely inspired by formal logic. Probably won't turn out very well, but I'm at least going to try.
04:49:45 <hppavilion[1]> I'm going to mix various types of logic into a strange, homogenous, disgusting mesh.
04:49:55 <hppavilion[1]> Which I guess is kind of in the spirit of this channel
05:01:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: quantum logic is weird, i once looked at it from this perspective, but it has this strange orthomodular rule that simply doesn't fit in a sensible way.
05:02:19 <oerjan> and is otherwise _very_ limited.
05:02:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Quantum computing]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45374 * Hppavilion1 * (+133) Created page because why the fuck did this not exist already
05:02:47 <oerjan> because any two things tend to be incompatible.
05:03:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um i should have said this long ago, but you _do_ know we have a rule against creating categories without discussion, right?
05:03:50 <oerjan> unless it was repealed in some part of my wiki backlog
05:04:11 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I did not think this needed discussion. We have >2 languages that are quantum, and quantum computing is, like, Esolangs taken seriously. But sorry.
05:04:32 <zzo38> Why do the fonts look better in my program than in xdvi? Is xdvi using PostScript fonts instead of bitmap fonts, or something else like that, or what else?
05:04:57 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Do you think we needed a category for quantum languages?
05:06:57 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: I believe it would be a good idea yes. However, the discussion for that is supposed to go on the wiki, I think.
05:07:24 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization to be precise
05:08:49 -!- doesthiswork1 has joined.
05:09:25 -!- heroux_ has joined.
05:09:52 <oerjan> i'm not sure that works. the limits of quantum logic are to do with combining things...
05:10:06 -!- Warrigal has joined.
05:10:32 -!- augur_ has joined.
05:10:49 <oerjan> related to the heisenberg uncertainty in real physics ... you cannot measure all pairs of observables precisely
05:10:50 -!- int-e_ has joined.
05:12:08 <hppavilion[1]> Well... how does normal probabalistic combinatory logic work?
05:13:37 -!- SirCmpwn_ has joined.
05:13:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Shall I go invent that? Probabilistic turing machines are easier to understand than quantum turing machines, and once I get my head fully wrapped around CL being TC I'll know what I'm doing
05:14:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:22 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:23 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:24 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:26 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:26 -!- kline has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:27 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split).
05:14:27 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux.
05:15:20 <oerjan> btw the types corresponding to quantum logic almost certainly wouldn't be the same as what a quantum computer can compute
05:17:45 -!- SirCmpwn_ has changed nick to SirCmpwn.
05:18:36 -!- kline has joined.
05:21:39 <hppavilion[1]> That seems like it ought to be Probabilistic enough xD
05:22:01 <hppavilion[1]> Sorry, I'm just not great with proofs and stuff yet xD
05:25:27 <zzo38> I did make up a esolang based on formal sequent calculus logic
05:27:07 <zzo38> And want to learn how to make the similar one with the sequent calculus of linear logic too
05:29:02 -!- variable has joined.
05:31:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
05:33:41 -!- copumpkin has joined.
05:39:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
05:42:10 <zzo38> It look like my dvipbm program is not quite perfect yet; there are still a few more things to fix, such as I get spurious rules on a page somehow
05:44:05 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe a ? combinator would be better, where ?xy=Ix|Iy
05:44:58 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:44:59 -!- llue has joined.
05:44:59 -!- llue has quit (Changing host).
05:44:59 -!- llue has joined.
05:45:52 <hppavilion[1]> I originally thought of a C (or something) combinator where C=S|K|I, but then I realized that was utterly idiotic of me
05:48:04 <hppavilion[1]> I think ? is probably better than R. R is just stupid, AND can be defined as Rxy = S (S (K (S (K S) K)) S) (K K) I xy, or something along those lines.
05:49:15 -!- variable has changed nick to function.
05:49:20 -!- haavardp has joined.
05:49:31 -!- deltab_ has joined.
05:50:41 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has joined.
05:51:04 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:05 -!- Hoolootoo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:07 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:08 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:10 -!- ocharles__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:10 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:10 -!- haavard has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:12 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:12 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:27 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:51:37 -!- nortti has joined.
05:51:37 -!- Hoolootwo has joined.
05:51:46 -!- Taneb has joined.
05:51:57 -!- fizzie has joined.
05:52:22 -!- ski has joined.
05:52:54 -!- Lymia has joined.
05:53:23 -!- haavardp has changed nick to haavard.
05:56:18 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, it's not as easy now that I've remembered that
05:56:30 -!- ocharles__ has joined.
05:57:04 -!- lambdabot has joined.
05:58:34 -!- heroux has joined.
05:58:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45375 * Hppavilion1 * (+793) Created Page
06:03:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45376&oldid=45375 * Hppavilion1 * (+197) Fixed section because I'm bad at math
06:12:31 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:17:00 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
06:19:51 -!- haavard has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
06:20:58 -!- haavard has joined.
06:21:30 -!- deltab_ has changed nick to deltab.
06:22:04 <zzo38> What is a esogong?
06:24:03 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: That is perhaps in bad taste, depending on exactly what went down in paris
06:24:17 <hppavilion[1]> I'm not sure exactly what happened though, so that might be OK
06:25:00 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: oops, didn't intend that at all, but probably inappropriate.
06:25:21 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: Probably. Was the stuff in paris bombings or shootings or other?
06:25:40 <lifthrasiir> (was just thinking about an appropriate combination of <verb>s the eso<noun>)
06:25:52 <hppavilion[1]> Probably bombings, given that they're terrorists. Bombs are the most effective terrorist weapon oftentimes. They cause a lot of, y'know, terror.
06:26:31 <hppavilion[1]> I think that #esoteric is close to going to war with ISIS. I can imagine the Michael Bay movie about us now...
06:26:39 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: seems that there were shootings *and* explosions.
06:26:52 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: Ah. Bombs with guns attached to them?
06:28:29 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: three shootings (one involving hostage scenario) and one explosion (suicide bombing).
06:29:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45377&oldid=45376 * Hppavilion1 * (+147) Changed ? to τ because τυχαίος
06:30:10 <lifthrasiir> about 9 hours passed since then, so not really surprising
06:30:26 <FireFly> Wikipedia are usually pretty quick with getting information going for current events
06:30:54 <FireFly> Unfortunatey I usually forget it when thinking of good news sources
06:31:43 <FireFly> Already 54 citations for the article
06:34:12 -!- function has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero).
06:35:44 <hppavilion[1]> I can't believe I didn't think of this yet: "lifthrasiir is going to esohell." Purely comically, of course.
06:36:11 <hppavilion[1]> (Also, Esohell is really the same as Esonirvana, because why not? (that's a formal logic term))
06:38:24 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: That is perhaps in bad taste, depending on exactly what went down in paris <-- it doesn't help that my intuitive reaction to the comment was to make an inspector clouseau joke
06:41:11 * oerjan is getting a bit annoyed at github inserting history cruft commits that are essentially nops but still end up in pull requests
06:42:38 <oerjan> FireFly: when i update my repository to edwardk's latest changes it gives a commit in my repository, which is still listed when i send a pull request _back_ (and this prevented me from making it a single-commit one so i had to cut and paste the description between windows)
06:43:03 <FireFly> Ah.. yes, that's a bit annoying
06:43:05 <oerjan> also, it was ridiculously complicated to separate out that one commit because i already had a pull request ourstanding
06:43:35 <FireFly> I think you can do something to work around that by stashing, pulling and rebasing, but my git-fu isn't very strong
06:44:02 <oerjan> well, i'm seriously trying to avoid the cli as much as possible, but i had to use cherry-pick
06:44:06 <FireFly> to avoid pointless merge commits I mean
06:44:27 <FireFly> Ah, I've only used command-line git
06:44:50 <oerjan> the things i'm doing _shouldn't_ be hard enough to require the cli...
06:47:17 <oerjan> hm this was one of the things darcs was supposed to be good at, no? treating commits individually?
06:47:37 -!- doesthiswork1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:00:45 -!- mtve- has joined.
07:01:02 -!- izabera_ has joined.
07:03:52 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:03:52 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:03:54 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:03:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:05:31 -!- myndzi has joined.
07:06:20 -!- heroux has joined.
07:14:16 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:40:52 -!- heroux has joined.
07:47:23 <\oren\> shit. I was 7 when the war started and it's still not over.
07:50:19 <\oren\> the general "war on terror"
07:50:46 <hppavilion[1]> I don't think I'd been born when it started; if I had, I wasn't sentient at the time
07:52:28 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:55:38 <\oren\> hmm, you can get in the army in some countries at 16. Therefore someone might be fighting the terrorists who was 2 when the war began
07:56:48 <\oren\> Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods
07:59:39 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
08:06:49 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: There are people fighting /with/ the terrorists who were 2 when the war began. Or younger. Or not even born yet.
08:13:20 <Jafet> The major general war on terror
08:19:17 -!- heroux has joined.
08:28:25 <\oren\> Jafet: just call it "the war", i mean it's the only war my country is actively involved in
08:30:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:30:55 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: like this one, you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA
08:32:43 <\oren\> In the grim dark future, even the rabbits are blood-soaked engines of war.
08:50:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: fnørd).
09:00:58 -!- sebbu has joined.
10:14:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
10:19:09 -!- paul2520_ has joined.
10:19:52 -!- trnv2 has joined.
10:19:58 -!- digitalc1ld has joined.
10:20:29 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:33 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:34 -!- digitalcold has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:35 -!- glowcoil has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:36 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:37 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:37 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
10:20:39 -!- j-bot has joined.
10:20:40 -!- pikhq has joined.
10:20:56 -!- Hoolootwo has joined.
10:21:14 -!- clog has joined.
10:23:57 -!- trnv2 has changed nick to trn.
10:29:18 -!- glowcoil has joined.
10:47:45 -!- ais523 has joined.
10:52:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
11:09:34 -!- izabera_ has changed nick to izabera.
11:09:35 -!- izabera has quit (Changing host).
11:09:35 -!- izabera has joined.
11:15:54 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e.
11:19:49 -!- Welo has joined.
11:26:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
11:30:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45378&oldid=44908 * Luis Mendo * (+99)
11:31:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
11:33:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45379&oldid=45378 * Luis Mendo * (+71)
11:37:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45380&oldid=45379 * Luis Mendo * (+2)
11:37:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45381&oldid=45380 * Luis Mendo * (+7)
11:38:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45382&oldid=45381 * Luis Mendo * (+2)
12:07:59 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
12:11:53 -!- TieSoul has joined.
12:12:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:16:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
12:16:28 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined.
12:16:28 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Client Quit).
12:16:29 -!- lollo64it has joined.
12:16:34 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
12:16:56 -!- lollo64it has quit (Client Quit).
12:19:35 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:21:39 -!- mroman has joined.
12:22:18 <mroman> I'm no expert but am I the only one that thinks that those "number arguments" in date-onomics are a bit weird.
12:22:24 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
12:22:33 <mroman> Granted, there apparentely are more female grads than male grads
12:22:56 <mroman> Which means that if you restrict dating to the same education level than you have a problem as a female
12:23:09 <mroman> however, overall there are more men than women in general.
12:23:29 <mroman> and since some of those women are stuck searching in that 4:3 ratio restricted to the same education level
12:23:47 <mroman> that would imply that the dating game for men without a high education level just got harder
12:23:48 -!- TieSoul has joined.
12:23:53 <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 51m 12s ago: <mroman> except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses <-- that sounds to me like almost the exact opposite of the natural language meaning
12:23:53 <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 50m 34s ago: because there, syntax is how you place words, but _not_ how words are composed.
12:25:31 <ais523> I'd call what a lexer uses/does "tokenization" and say that syntax and grammar are both parser things
12:26:19 <Taneb> I agree with ais523 on this one
12:26:57 <ais523> if called on the difference between syntax and grammar, I'd say that a grammar is a specification of a syntax
12:27:18 <mroman> I'd say it depends on in which field you're working.
12:30:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
12:53:34 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz.
13:02:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
13:05:59 -!- sinetek has joined.
13:06:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:16:09 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:56:45 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
14:03:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:07:04 -!- lleu has joined.
14:29:06 -!- sinetek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
14:30:51 -!- sinetek has joined.
14:34:06 -!- zadock has joined.
14:40:22 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:34:19 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:46:23 -!- boily has joined.
16:18:55 <\oren\> which kanji should I draw today?
16:20:28 <b_jonas> \oren\: still the vertical version of the long vowel sign, and those strange repeat signs you don't have yet
16:22:16 <b_jonas> but definitely the vertical long vowel sign
16:23:35 <\oren\> Oh, apparently I have ゝゞ but didn't add them. I don't have 〱〲 though, and I couldn't find the vertical long vowel sign
16:24:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45383&oldid=45382 * Luis Mendo * (+700)
16:24:47 <b_jonas> \oren\: shouldn't that be a variant glyph for the normal long vowel sign, marked such that the font engine or layout engine automatically chooses that variant glyph for vertical text?
16:25:49 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, halfwidth korean syllables
16:30:31 <boily> \oren\: could you please add 肺、管、腹、膵、臓、脾 and 爪?
16:30:56 <boily> olsner: hellolsner. do you agree with https://youtu.be/GaGIFtJtuTY ?
16:31:35 <olsner> I've never tried surströmming
16:33:29 <boily> I can't find a can here :(
16:34:11 <olsner> but these people seem to know what they're doing
16:39:04 -!- mauris has joined.
16:40:42 <boily> sinetellok. I haven't seem to have had been asked you the The Question: what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh?
16:41:43 <ais523> wait, The Question still exists? it's not a very good question :-(
16:42:15 <boily> his523. it should be improved.
16:43:20 <b_jonas> Question. If I want to write an eye dialect representing a child who can't yet pronounce "k" and "g" and so pronounces something close to "t" and "d" instead, then I should represent those letters with a "t" or "d" with what accent? A caron, a comma below, a circumflex?
16:44:55 <ais523> it's sort-of the opposite of a cedilla
16:45:26 <boily> what is an eye dialect?
16:46:04 <b_jonas> boily: eye dialect is nonstandard spelling representing the accent of the speaker
16:46:41 <b_jonas> boily: eg. Hagrid talks with an eye dialect in Harry Potter, and so does the dwarf Dwalin in Irregular Webcomic!
16:47:03 <b_jonas> As well as Belkar in OoTS, except that he also writes that way in that joke.
16:51:18 <boily> I was leaning towards a haček, prime or comma below.
16:51:47 <b_jonas> hacek is the same as caron, right?
16:53:55 <boily> macron is the bar, caron is haček.
16:54:11 <boily> so much diacriticonfusion. I am ashamed.
16:54:43 <b_jonas> macron makes sense, it marks long vowels, whereas brevis (breve) marks short vowels. originally.
16:57:03 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:02:24 <b_jonas> there's also diaresis = trema = umlaut.
17:02:43 -!- sinetek has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.").
17:04:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45384&oldid=45383 * Luis Mendo * (+1284)
17:05:55 <fizzie> And "fly droppings" is a general term for all of them hth
17:10:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45385&oldid=45384 * Luis Mendo * (+33)
17:10:48 <int-e> stand still, stay silent sure takes its time to get started...
17:15:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45386&oldid=45385 * Luis Mendo * (+42)
17:19:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45387&oldid=45386 * Luis Mendo * (-217)
17:22:31 <fizzie> Are you reading the archives or something?
17:24:32 <fizzie> I like the bits that are in Finnish here and there.
17:24:58 <fizzie> (Insert TV Tropes 'Bilingual Bonus' link here.)
17:25:12 * ais523 is disappointed that there haven't been further edits on Three Star Programmer or its talk page
17:25:17 <ais523> I was quite proud of that language
17:25:29 <ais523> oh well, I guess I'll have to wait for Keymaker to notice it, it seems like eir sort of language
17:25:36 <b_jonas> what... is this a new language?
17:26:22 <ais523> as of a couple of days ago
17:26:26 <ais523> [[e:Three_Star_Programmer]
17:26:29 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer
17:26:34 <ais523> would help if I got my trigger right
17:30:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45388&oldid=45387 * Luis Mendo * (+30)
17:32:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45389&oldid=45388 * Luis Mendo * (-2) /* Specification */
17:32:54 <b_jonas> ais523: um, when you ask whether that language is Turing-complete, what are the observables or outputs of that langauge? programs never halt. do you mean with the output extension you describe?
17:33:59 <ais523> b_jonas: I'm using a loose #esoteric definition along the lines of "given any program in a Turing-equivalent language, you can write a program in «language» that runs in 'the same way' in some easily demonstrable sense"
17:35:27 <b_jonas> ais523: right, but that kind of stuff can lead to strange things when you start to make more and more complicated isomorphisms, and eventually the isomorphism itself will run your program
17:35:42 <b_jonas> so it might be better to have a clear halt criterion
17:35:43 <ais523> this is one of the main objections against my 2,3 machine proof
17:36:00 <b_jonas> sure, it's the problem with lots of such proofs
17:36:05 <ais523> although that one does have a clear halt criterion, at least; I found a construction with a semi-infinite tape, where in the halt state it falls off the end
17:36:49 <b_jonas> also, you need some limits on what's allowed when you translate the program.
17:45:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
17:46:19 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting).
17:50:02 -!- Melvar has joined.
17:53:50 -!- idris-bot has joined.
17:59:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TABULAR CHICKEN).
18:02:57 <quintopia> oerjan: how do you feel about CHIQRSX9+ being used in code golf competitions? (In particular, in the seven competitions it has a good chance of winning.)
18:05:41 <ais523> quintopia: I think it also has a decent chance at "make an interpreter for a Turing-complete language"
18:06:04 <ais523> it'd also do well in an accumulator-incrementing competition, but would at least draw with brainfuck
18:06:29 <ais523> wait, no, X doesn't work like that
18:06:33 <ais523> it just makes the language TC in a nonspecified way
18:08:14 <ais523> b_jonas: any opinions on how the infinite Four Horsemen ruling affects TC M:tG games?
18:08:40 <ais523> actually it probably doesn't, unless randomness is involevd
18:09:00 <b_jonas> ais523: what is that ruling?
18:09:44 <ais523> b_jonas: that with any infinite loop, you have to be able to specify the number of iterations it takes and the expected end state, or you can't continue going round it
18:10:22 <ais523> this Reddit thread contains good discussion, and the story it links to complains and quotes the rule itself: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11k00n/id_like_to_make_awareness_of_a_stupid_ruling_that/
18:10:55 <ais523> in this case you can't specify the number of iterations and the expected end state, assuming you're simulating an unsolved problem
18:11:02 <ais523> but you also can't do anything else
18:13:30 <b_jonas> ais523: um, isn't that ruling about tournament rules (avoiding slow play) rather than comprehensive rules? I might be misunderstanding it
18:13:38 <ais523> b_jonas: yes, tournament rules
18:15:11 <b_jonas> If it's about tournament rules, then it can't affect turing-completeness in the sense we were talking about, because clearly setting up a full computational device isn't possible in a tournament anyway, and I already knew that.
18:16:05 <quintopia> ais523: How do you feel about it? Should it be forbidden? (Though I really want to know how oerjan feels about it, since it's his.)
18:16:59 <ais523> quintopia: well PCCG stack exchange has a rule that the language has to have a certain amount of power, and the usual test is being able to implement one specific program (something to do with printing primes, I think?) withotu cheating
18:17:16 <ais523> I don't think CHIQRSX9+ can handle that deterministically, with the standard definition of X
18:17:32 <ais523> although I guess X makes it TC by definition, so it should count
18:17:46 <b_jonas> ais523: being turing complete might not be enough
18:17:56 <b_jonas> for the golf SE rulings that is]
18:18:16 <ais523> yes, their definition is intentionally designed to allow relatively powerful sub-TC languages
18:18:24 <ais523> but may accidentally disallow some TC languages as a result
18:19:26 <b_jonas> ais523: that might not be an accident
18:19:55 <b_jonas> if it's the kind of TC language where you need a stellar size program to print anything useful with high probability, then they could disallow it
18:20:11 <b_jonas> like, a TC esolang that is designed to be almost impossible to program,
18:20:19 <b_jonas> and not just to the level Malbolge does it, but more
18:20:21 <ais523> something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/DownRight is probably disallowed due to not having any form of IO and programs typically being very large
18:20:41 <ais523> b_jonas: Three Star Programmer? :-P, although that's more just impossible to think about
18:21:19 <b_jonas> I don't know, I don't think three-star programmer is like that
18:21:46 <ais523> have you tried to write a program in it?
18:21:49 <ais523> I have, I didn't get anywhere
18:21:55 <b_jonas> no, but I also don't know if it's turing complete
18:22:02 <ais523> it's like, normally when you're writing a program
18:22:12 <ais523> you start off by defining how or where you're going to store the various bits of data
18:22:18 <ais523> three star programmer just completely defies tha
18:22:21 <b_jonas> if you figure out that it's turing complete, you can probably also write programs in it that are only a few times as much verbose as brainfuck or something
18:22:36 <b_jonas> unless it has obstructions regarding to what IO you can do
18:22:40 <ais523> you /have/ to keep moving your data around during the life of the program, and yet you also /have/ to use hardcoded cells
18:23:20 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, it sounds difficult, but not in the sense of difficult _after_ you prove it turing complete
18:23:37 <b_jonas> but difficult in the sense of how Malbolbe was difficult before people figured out how to write programs for it easily
18:23:40 <ais523> well yes, but the proof would presumably be constructive
18:23:45 <ais523> I don't think it's as hard as Malbolge
18:23:56 <ais523> I do, however, find it hard to think about
18:23:57 <b_jonas> I'm not sure it's TC though
18:24:03 <ais523> (Malbolge is easy to think about, just makes it hard to do things)
18:24:05 <b_jonas> right, that makes it a good esolang
18:24:13 <ais523> I'm not sure it's TC either, though, but it hits all the normal notes to make a language TC
18:24:16 <b_jonas> makes Three Star Programmer a good esolang
18:24:30 <ais523> I'm much more confident that 3* is TC than, say, Xigxag
18:24:40 <ais523> (which is my go-to language for "almost certainly not TC but it's very hard to prove that")
18:24:46 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:24:52 <b_jonas> Xigxag... I have to read this one
18:25:06 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag
18:26:07 <b_jonas> Xigxag sounds like bitwise cyclic tag, only worse
18:26:10 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer
18:26:20 <ais523> b_jonas: nah, it's more like self BCT but ten times less powerful
18:26:49 <b_jonas> plus it needs a stop criterion
18:27:19 -!- boily has joined.
18:28:58 -!- copumpkin has joined.
18:30:34 <boily> weird. upgraded firefox (and ubuntu incidentally) on my laptop, and now it freezes after a few seconds...
18:31:03 <ais523> firefox, or the entire laptop?
18:31:10 <ais523> either way, it sounds like a bug related to the upgrade
18:31:53 <boily> and now my keyboard layout is US, for no apparent reason.
18:31:59 <boily> what the fungot is going on...
18:32:17 <fungot> ais523: or the law does. :-p heh, i drew this stuff, base-10 addition is harder than it needs to
18:32:25 <ais523> oh, you must have hit the rate limiter
18:33:16 <boily> let's reboot and hope for the best...
18:33:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DISTRAUGHT CHICKEN).
18:34:15 <b_jonas> ais523: Xigxag also sort of reminds me to http://esolangs.org/wiki/McCulloch's_second_machine because that one can also sort of copy stuff from the left of the string or the right of the string, although I don't think they're really similar.
18:36:14 -!- boily has joined.
18:38:39 <boily> still happening. much joy.
18:40:55 <boily> (firefox:6603): GStreamer-WARNING **: External plugin loader failed.
18:47:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:49:43 -!- pikhq has joined.
18:53:16 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:55:24 <boily> swapped the flash plugin from 'flashplugin-installer' to the pepper one. seems to have fixed the problem.
18:56:01 <boily> talked too fast. still freezes. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGHGHGHGHGH.
19:05:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:05:54 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:06:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit).
19:06:29 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:09:40 <\oren\> just get a second computer and run flash on thst
19:13:36 -!- heroux has joined.
19:26:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
19:29:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:38:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:40:43 -!- bb010g has joined.
20:42:15 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
20:42:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:43:23 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
20:44:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:09:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
21:19:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:27:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:28:33 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:40:05 -!- mauris has joined.
21:46:27 -!- copumpkin has joined.
21:46:52 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:49:08 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:50:37 <zzo38> Can you tell me why it still does not print?
21:52:55 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CRUISING CHICKEN).
21:54:20 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:55:03 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:55:51 -!- boily has joined.
22:07:42 <\oren\> zzo38: what doesn't print?
22:10:58 <zzo38> \oren\: I used the command: dvipbm -E fontfinder < texput.dvi | foo2zjs -z2 | lp but it will not print. It add into the print queue, it looks like a valid PJL and ZjStream, and the printer is HP Laserjet P1102w and is recognized by the computer.
22:11:11 <zzo38> But, it will not print; the lights don't blink or anything else like that.
22:11:37 <zzo38> (The output of dvipbm is also valid; I checked that too.)
22:11:53 <hppavilion[1]> I /think/ it is, but it isn't working with my parser.
22:12:09 <hppavilion[1]> Can anyone confirm that I'm the one who screwed up?
22:16:22 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: err, the first y doesn't refer to any of your lambdas; it's "valid" if you allow scope and if you allow that to be an open term (i.e. to have un-lambda's variables)
22:16:25 <ais523> but it's not a closed term
22:16:43 <ais523> > \x -> (\x -> x y) (\y -> x y)
22:16:45 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M539493718582421214228727’
22:16:52 <ais523> oh right, lambdabot has y pre-defined
22:16:55 <ais523> :t \x -> (\x -> x y) (\y -> x y)
22:16:56 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I just need to know if it's syntactically valid for my parser
22:17:04 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: that depends on what language you're parsing
22:17:08 <ais523> "lambda-calculus" is too general
22:17:35 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Traditional λ-calculus (with some assignment, though that's not yet relevant)
22:17:53 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: in that case it's a valid open term but not a valid closed term
22:17:56 <ais523> which are you parsing?
22:19:00 <hppavilion[1]> I'm just following the three rules for Lambda terms Wiki gives me
22:19:25 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#Lambda_terms
22:20:10 <hppavilion[1]> Open terms, I think? If you're referring to the fact that there's an unbound "y" in there then open terms
22:20:12 <ais523> OK, it's valid under those rules
22:20:22 <ais523> and yes, open terms are terms that contain free (=unbound) variables
22:23:09 <hppavilion[1]> It doesn't crash, but it doesn't parse the second part of the application (λy.xy)
22:23:26 <hppavilion[1]> I get the same thing I would get if parsing λx.(λx.xy)
22:35:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:35:32 <hppavilion[1]> OK, it's working better now. Still not perfect, I'm sure, but improved
22:36:20 <boily> after some voodoo incantations, beta Firefox 43 may work...
22:36:50 <hppavilion[1]> OK, temporary bug, but λx.G(λx.xy)(λy.xy) is different from λx.(G)(λx.xy)(λy.xy)
22:38:37 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:39:27 -!- ^v has joined.
22:43:57 <zzo38> Do you know how to do printing on Ubuntu?
22:45:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:47:59 <zzo38> I used to get all light blinking when trying to print a PCL file, but now it does nothing regardless of the format, and usb_printerid doesn't work anymore either.
22:51:57 <zzo38> usb_printerid used to work but now it doesn't work.
23:09:22 <zzo38> At least that works now, but now I just get the lights blinking again even with ZjStream format
23:25:49 <hppavilion[1]> It can parse S(BBS)(KK) properly, so it should be working
23:29:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:41:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:54:24 <izabera> is anyone here a (n)curses expert? i just need to read a utf8 character
23:58:49 <fizzie> Remember to setlocale(LC_ALL, ""); is all I can say.