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00:02:29 <Taneb> @ask boily How do you decline Taneb?
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00:07:15 <hppavilion[1]> MDude: Morphic [character] Encoding and Markup Language
00:07:32 <hppavilion[1]> It's a character encoding I'm making to... complement Unicode
00:08:00 <MDude> I should also make that character thing I mentioned at some time.
00:08:55 <MDude> Where each document comes with its own glyph index, and no inherent relation between characters of different fonts.
00:09:15 <MDude> Gimmie a link for this Morphic [character] Encoding and Markup Language.
00:09:30 <hppavilion[1]> The idea is that characters are morphic; for example, instead of unicode's omega-and-a-half unique arrow characters, you would do something like $(ARW:NW+DASH[1,2]) which gives you MORE possible arrows than unicode could ever give you and LESS plane space is used
00:09:42 <hppavilion[1]> MDude: It's currently a google doc that I've barely worked on, but OK
00:09:49 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: what do you mean by "morphic"?
00:10:23 <MDude> I get a snese of it being like procedurally genrated/parametric.
00:10:48 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Morphic kind of like combining diacritics. I believe it was either oerjan or \oren\ that told me "morphic" was the word I was looking for (I said semantic, which was apparently entirely wrong)
00:11:06 <hppavilion[1]> MDude: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_jGozB6Uhw-V2qgvvityjJstuAw4k7UNJuNoD3-tdds/edit?usp=sharing
00:11:09 <tswett> The word that comes to my mind is "compositional", which means "involving putting pieces together".
00:11:49 <hppavilion[1]> It's kind of procedurally generated, but not entirely. It's more like a bunch of combining diacritics, but not to the logical extreme like that one fake RFC did
00:12:13 <tswett> So the way I'm imagining this working is...
00:12:45 <tswett> You have a whole bunch of defined shapes. Shapes tend to have defined anchor points.
00:13:22 <tswett> You more or less just list the shapes you want in your character.
00:13:59 <tswett> Some shapes are parameterized with numbers and/or some kind of measurements.
00:16:40 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: That will certainly be a thing, but that's too logically extreme. Normal, alphabetical characters will be allowed as well encoded as single code points.
00:16:59 <hppavilion[1]> The composing feature comes into play more for operators and arrows and box drawing and other symbols
00:19:21 <tswett> I figure letters would have an anchor point indicating where most diacritics should go. Diacritics would, of course, have anchor points indicating where they would go on the letter.
00:19:41 <tswett> So yeah, letters would certainly be their own primitive shapes.
00:20:28 <hppavilion[1]> Letters have anchor points for all types of diacritic (above, below, sides, diagonals) and diacritics have a start anchor and an end anchor (the end anchor for repeated diacritics)
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00:20:54 <tswett> What's an example of a repeated diacritic?
00:21:28 <tswett> Yeah, that makes sense.
00:21:45 <hppavilion[1]> And letters (font-)optionally have an entry and exit points with some sort of equation for waypoints included of cursive fonts
00:22:03 <tswett> I was literally just typing a message about how you could do cursive with this.
00:22:28 <tswett> I wasn't thinking of equations, though; I was thinking of cursive stuff still just being constructed out of static pieces.
00:22:36 <tswett> Like, consider the word "look" in cursive...
00:23:54 <tswett> You'll use the plain cursive "l" variant, and the cursive "o" variant which ends on the midline, and the cursive "o" variant which begins on the midline, and the plain cursive "k" variant.
00:23:56 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I don't like constructing out of primitive shapes; that's too close to just a vector image format than to a text encoding
00:24:28 <tswett> I guess it depends on where you draw the line between images and text.
00:25:05 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Instead of that, the characters will have anchor points and equations that factor in the anchor points that generate a bezier curve from the end anchor on the first character, through the waypoints generated by the equation, ending on the start anchor point for the following character. When you do cursive, at least.
00:25:11 <tswett> Unicode, for the most part, tries to define text as a sequence of characters (preexisting ones) which express language.
00:26:00 <hppavilion[1]> And MEML tries to define text as sequences of characters and subcharacters (composed and preexisting), as well as some basic markup control
00:26:41 <tswett> What would the variables be for?
00:26:58 <hppavilion[1]> But there will also be anchor lines, which are lines between two points used primarily for transformations.
00:27:14 <hppavilion[1]> The only two I've thought of so far are ref-h and ref-v
00:27:37 <hppavilion[1]> Over which points used in the font are reflected when a character is reflected
00:27:44 <tswett> I guess my suggestion would be to think of a bunch of characters and subcharacters you want to include.
00:28:03 <hppavilion[1]> But first I have to define what makes up a character xD
00:28:20 <tswett> I dunno. I was thinking of just jumping straight in.
00:29:02 <hppavilion[1]> There's also a rot-c centrepoint around which characters can be rotated. Rotations are limited to either 45- or 90-degrees, haven't decided which yet.
00:29:22 <tswett> Say, all right, letters are subchars, arrow heads are subchars, arrow bodies are subchars, diacritics are subchars, maybe underlines are subchars...
00:29:34 <tswett> How about the fraction bar, is that a subchar?
00:30:00 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: That sounds about right. Underlines are formatting, not characters
00:30:15 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Oooh, fraction bar. Forgot about that one. I think that'll be a control code.
00:30:31 <hppavilion[1]> I mentioned earlier a $(code:value,value,value) syntax
00:30:58 <hppavilion[1]> That's actually for MEMLEdit, a planned editor in which one can make MEML text that can't usually be made
00:31:10 <tswett> I might suggest not thinking about the syntax too seriously until you have a good handle on everything else.
00:31:25 <tswett> Except something tells me you've already thought of that.
00:31:32 <tswett> Anyway, congratulations, you've successfully distracted me from what I meant to be doing. :D
00:31:41 <hppavilion[1]> But that gets converted to a series of codepoints with control brackets, control mapper (or something), and control separator
00:31:49 <tswett> I meant to be defining a language of my own.
00:32:14 <tswett> Nah, you can go ahead and I'll undistract myself.
00:32:53 <hppavilion[1]> So MEMLEdit converts that to a control code, and fractions are interpreted as control codes. MEML, if you haven't figured it out, is meant for mathematics writing.
00:33:40 <tswett> Hmmmm. You've heard of LaTeX, right?
00:34:27 <hppavilion[1]> I actually considered using LaTeX to write up the doc on MEML xD
00:34:31 <tswett> LaTeX is made for mathematical writing and is definitely flexible enough to do most of the stuff we've been talking about. But there are a lot of things not to like about LaTeX.
00:34:57 <hppavilion[1]> MEML is like LaTeX, but simpler. Not so deep and complicated, just for basic writing
00:37:15 <hppavilion[1]> Though it certainly may develop into something TeXy xD
00:42:05 <hppavilion[1]> I kind of want to make my own TeX designed for the modern day, and might like someone to help me
00:45:08 <tswett> Well, I'm more or less familiar with C#, Python, C, C++, Haskell, Javascript, Lua, SQL, HTML, LaTeX...
00:45:35 <hppavilion[1]> I would probably develop a prototype of it in python, the final version in C(++)
00:46:03 <Jafet> Wasn't TeX first implemented in Pascal with WEB?
00:47:15 <zzo38> Yes TeX is implemented in WEB, which is a preprocessor and literate programming system for Pascal programming
00:51:43 <zzo38> If I was making the typesetting system similar to TeX there are some things I would have done different, such as allowing definitions to jump out of blocks without necessarily being global, and some more generalized mathematical typesetting operations, and making a filter to take the manuscript on stdin and output the DVI on stdout instead of how TeX does it, and so on.
00:54:35 <hppavilion[1]> The prototype will likely be interpreted, though, so...
00:54:58 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: So what do you think about modernized TeX?
00:55:40 <tswett> Like, about the idea of modernizing TeX?
00:55:45 <tswett> I'm definitely in favor.
00:56:05 <tswett> One of my projects is modernizing SQL.
00:57:15 <hppavilion[1]> If you want to help at any point in the future, you can go ahead.
00:57:33 <zzo38> I do like many things about TeX though, including using DVI as the output format is also the good idea. But unlike troff I would rather to have it use coprocessors rather than preprocessors to do those kind of things in general (although preprocessors can be used too); this way would allow macros to be interpreted and the coprocessor will use the one with the macros already interpreted and can emit more macros
00:59:49 <zzo38> tswett: I also had some idea improvement of SQL, such as a CREATE FUNCTION command (although with a syntax that isn't matching any existing SQL implementation as far as I know), and allowing a trigger program to contain an exception handler section.
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01:01:59 <tswett> This wouldn't be an improvement of SQL, though; I'd be throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch.
01:02:19 <zzo38> O, it would be a completely new kind; well, you can try that too if you like to.
01:02:19 <tswett> It would be heavily inspired by category theory.
01:02:45 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: Can you explain more how you would do so?
01:03:16 <tswett> But an understanding of category theory wouldn't be necessary to use the language, of course!
01:04:00 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Perhaps make documents interactive, and allow said interactivity to connect to other users?
01:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> I think that it would pretty much have to be interpreted when using those functions; PDF and DVI simply don't support the level of control I would want my thing to gran
01:04:41 <\oren\_> I added ꙮ earyl because someone mentiones it
01:05:15 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: TeX already supports interactive programs, although for sockets and stuff I would probably expect that an external coprocessor could be used (and add support for such thing)
01:05:32 <zzo38> My CREATE FUNCTION would be: CREATE [TEMPORARY] FUNCTION [IF NOT EXISTS] [schema.]name ([args]) [ACCUMULATING (vars)] AS expr
01:06:24 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: The compiled document can't be interactive (unless the driver implements specials to do so, somehow), although you can have interactive stuff while compiling the document.
01:06:44 <coppro> so the usual programming idiom is to factor common code into functions and pass around the data
01:06:52 <coppro> what if you factored common data out and passed around the functions?
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01:08:56 <zzo38> Also it may be good to support more versatile font metric format (possibly implementing TFM as well though), which does thing of TFM but also a few more things
01:11:32 <zzo38> (Actually maybe the ACCUMULATING clause should be allowed to have an optional WHERE clause too, and perhaps also an optional ORDER BY clause and LIMIT/OFFSET clause)
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01:20:48 <HackEgo> [U+6559 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-6559] [U+6570 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-6570]
01:24:35 <Jafet> I'd rather function around passing out common factor data.
01:24:55 <lifthrasiir> \oren\_: did you draw all letters with combining chars yourself?
01:27:42 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Should I use my own MEML typesetter for STS or should I just allow normal fonts? Or both, more likely?
01:28:29 <lifthrasiir> I've semi-automated the glyph composition at the end
01:29:03 <\oren\_> I drew every character individually because... well I have literally no life
01:29:12 <hppavilion[1]> (MEML will henceforth be canonically rendered by WalText2i
01:30:25 <lifthrasiir> also, fuck the box-drawing character order
01:30:52 <lifthrasiir> could you just use the binary order please? :(
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01:33:51 <\oren\_> thank fuck, the germans have the presence of mind
01:34:44 <lifthrasiir> \oren\_: I've also tried to draw a kanji, and well... it was hard to make it good-looking.
01:35:21 <\oren\_> I usually try to make it recognizable rather than necessarily good looking
01:36:06 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\_: Speaking of which, the comma looks a bit too close to the period
01:36:08 <lifthrasiir> my secondary goal is to make it good, so I've adjusted some existing glyphs if it looks too bad
01:36:34 <\oren\_> hppavilion[1]: really? it's almost twice the size
01:37:02 <hppavilion[1]> Well the period is still VERY small, so twice the size is hard to tell.
01:37:03 <lifthrasiir> to make it distinguished from Ø and 0 (my font has a slash inside 0)
01:37:21 <\oren\_> hppavilion[1]: are you at the right point size (12)?
01:38:17 <\oren\_> the perios has 4 pixels, the comma has 7
01:40:17 <hppavilion[1]> Well the comma still doesn't look quite comma-y enough. It isn't too confusing, though.
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01:42:56 <hppavilion[1]> It isn't really strongly typed though xD. "Type" isn't really applicable
01:43:47 <hppavilion[1]> I'm thinking something like $com[optionalarg|anotheroptionalarg|somanyoptionalargs=value]{content|morecontent|evenmorecontent}
01:45:31 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: Not the same as LaTeX; just similar to TeX. My /own/ TeX.
01:45:50 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm using "LaTeX" and "TeX" interchangably here xD. Sorry.)
01:46:03 <lifthrasiir> so are you making another Turing-complete esolang? :)
01:49:43 <hppavilion[1]> Why don't we invent something weird called a "Trifraction"?
01:50:13 <hppavilion[1]> Written like a fraction, except the dividing line is an equilateral triangle and there are three numbers, one on each side of the triangle
02:07:40 <hppavilion[1]> What's the equivalent of Big Sigma Notation and Big Pi Notation for exponentiation?
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02:15:05 <Hoolootwo> I'm not sure how that would work, because exponentiation is not commutative like addition and multiplication
02:16:13 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: there's conway's up arrow?
02:22:18 <hppavilion[1]> Here's an idea for a logarithm syntax that isn't an operator
02:26:44 <zzo38> That is one of the kind of things I have wanted to make TeX mathematical typesetting to be "more generalized" by
02:27:20 <zzo38> Although with some hacks it may be possible to do with ordinary TeX anyways
02:32:18 <hppavilion[1]> Should I just include a "White" escape code/modifying diacritic for MEML instead of having white variants of characters?
02:32:47 <hppavilion[1]> The Whitenning character would basically be both for blackboard bold set characters and for white punctuation
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02:56:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[UberGenes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45627&oldid=45621 * Quintopia * (-12) /* Python 2 */ fix bugs introduced by previous golfing
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03:19:06 <hppavilion[1]> Or n/0=<anything that behaves even remotely like a number>
03:19:42 <zzo38> Division by zero is not allowed.
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03:29:20 <hppavilion[1]> In North Korea, the rules of writing Korean mandate that the names of Kim-Jong Il and Kim-Jong Un and Kim-Jon Stewart always be set in bodl
03:29:35 <zzo38> I know that already.
03:30:44 <Sgeo> http://xkcd.com/1608/
03:32:04 <zzo38> If it apply only if it is name of the specific people with those name, then at least you can now tell the difference, but they are still stupid to be the law. Possibly sometimes it can't even write bold
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04:01:11 <\oren\_> I added 支改攻放政故敏救敗教敢散敬数巣差希席帯帳
04:06:53 <hppavilion[1]> I still want to work on Esonums, but I still have no clue where to start
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04:09:39 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps I could do the same thing I did with the Arithmetic of the Functia, but deal with classes
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04:26:53 <hppavilion[1]> OK, I've found a constant for esonums. Took me about 30 minutes.
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04:34:48 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: Did we ever figure out the definition of absolute value in the domain of the @oids?
04:35:14 <hppavilion[1]> Because I'm being forced to define it for η, and I think that might be helpful xD
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04:46:08 <Sgeo> hppavilion[1], didn't your η turn out to be an actual mathematical construct?
04:47:02 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: I never did this before, as far as I can remember
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04:49:44 <Sgeo> Someone mentioned that having an absolute value = an imaginary corresponds to Minsky space
04:50:10 <Sgeo> err, don't know the correct name
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04:52:31 <Sgeo> sqrt(x^2 - t^2), distance along t corresponds with smaller absolute distance
04:58:41 <Sgeo> So |a+bη| = sqrt(a^2 - b^2), which still only gives either positive or imaginary results.
05:00:09 <Sgeo> The secret of course is that sqrt is defined to make things positive
05:00:15 <Sgeo> (or imaginary)
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05:34:01 <GoToTell> When one says 'the wind is southerly' does that mean it's going from south to north, or that it's going north?
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05:38:42 <Sgeo> Huh, what if I take that definition and apply a function like (if imaginary then multiply by -i)?
05:40:41 <Sgeo> Actually I want to multiply by i I guess
05:43:18 <Sgeo> Blah, I forget what properties I was checking the other definitions against
05:48:32 <Sgeo> I _think_ an equivalent formulation is |a+b@| = if a>=b then |a+bi|, else -|a+bi|
05:50:09 <Sgeo> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=z+%3D+sign%28x-y%29+*+%7Cx+%2B+y*i%7C
05:50:51 <Sgeo> I, uh. Need to fix that. That's broken.
05:51:51 <Sgeo> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=z+%3D+sign%28%7Cx%7C-%7Cy%7C%29+*+%7Cx+%2B+y*i%7C
05:52:29 <Sgeo> There's some kind of irony here
05:52:40 <Sgeo> Also that looks so horribly discontinuous
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06:12:47 <zzo38> I don't know how to make it to quite work
06:14:28 <Sgeo> Huh I think my function is totally wrong
06:14:36 <Sgeo> I was wrong to use absolute value there
06:15:31 <Sgeo> I'm having the @ value increase the abs, when it should decrease. The sqrt version behaves properly
06:18:07 <Sgeo> |a+b@| = sqrt(a^2-b^2) * (i if that sqrt is imaginary)
06:19:08 <Sgeo> How do I do if in Wolfram Alpha?
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06:21:27 <Sgeo> This ought to do the trick
06:21:28 <Sgeo> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=z+%3D+%280.5+%2B+0.5*sign%28%7Cx%7C-%7Cy%7C%29+%2B+0.5*i+-+0.5*i*sign%28%7Cx%7C-%7Cy%7C%29%29+*+sqrt%28x%5E2+-+y%5E2%29
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06:29:10 <hppavilion[1]> Programming language based on geometry or algebra?
06:32:34 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Do you have any content on that Category Theory SQL yet, or is it just abstract? If you have some content, I'd /love/ to read it.
06:40:59 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: I feel Geometer's Sketchpad and other similar things may qualify as a DSL.
06:49:30 <hppavilion[1]> Would a category-theoretical database software be practical, or is it just a research demonstration?
06:51:24 <shachaf> Isn't all SQL category-theoretical?
06:56:44 <shachaf> Does SQL support pushouts?
07:26:07 <Sgeo> Huh, Wolfram actually figured out what I was doing with the 0.5 stuff (in alternate forms)
07:27:38 <hppavilion[1]> Someone who understands category theory should update https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Introduction_to_Category_Theory someday
07:29:08 <shachaf> In January, a free online version of Tom Leinster's _Basic Category Theory_ will be released.
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07:29:41 <shachaf> Then people can just read that book instead of that thing.
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08:24:28 <lifthrasiir> http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample#u2167 hmm, not sure if I should shrink or adjust glyphs for those Roman numerals.
08:31:57 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Morphic kind of like combining diacritics. I believe it was either oerjan or \oren\ that told me "morphic" was the word I was looking for (I said semantic, which was apparently entirely wrong) <-- pretty sure it wasn't me.
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08:42:47 <oerjan> `learn ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
08:42:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'ꙮ': ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
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08:53:32 <HackEgo> ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
08:59:16 <oerjan> <lifthrasiir> \oren\_: ꙮ reminds me of 𪚥. <-- that's a very punny character. proof that there were ancient chinese geeks...
09:06:56 <HackEgo> [U+00D8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE]
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09:08:40 <mroman> Someone added codegolf.stackexchange.com as a tournament site on wikipedia :(
09:09:26 <oerjan> if that's wrong, you can edit it hth
09:10:35 <mroman> It's wrong in my opinion :)
09:10:41 <mroman> but probably not in other people's opinion.
09:11:13 <mroman> anything that doesn't have reasonable validation, and scoreboards isn't a "tournament site" in my opinion.
09:11:41 <mroman> also if the shortest solution doesn't "win" then it's hardly a true golfing site
09:11:55 <mroman> also you need to be able to "win" a tournament somehow
09:12:03 <mroman> otherwise I wouldn't classify it as a tournament
09:23:44 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> **bold -_- <-- ***blood hth
09:24:45 <oerjan> also defining dividing by 0 isn't interesting if there are no useful rules for the result.
09:30:14 <b_jonas> oh, look, another big xkcd strip, of the style of 1110
09:30:20 <b_jonas> http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1608
09:42:20 <hppavilion[1]> OK, so the Notta unit is ζ:ζ=1/0, a pure Notta number is of the form nζ where n is real, a notta duality (or something) is a+ζ, and a Notta Complex Number is a+bi+cζ+diζ
09:42:35 <hppavilion[1]> And the same holds for any other esounit with ζ replaced with that
09:43:39 <myname> what do you do with it?
09:46:33 <myname> how do you get to that number?
09:47:27 <myname> basically, @ has to be a number with x < 0 and -x < 0
09:47:38 <myname> i don't think that's possible
09:49:03 <myname> i on the other hand makes things easier. e.g. every polynom of rank n has n solutions for p = 0
09:49:49 <hppavilion[1]> myname: How do you get i? it has to be a number with x>0 and x/>0
09:50:48 <myname> how do you come to that conclusion?
09:51:21 <myname> sqrt(x) = y such that y^2 = x
09:51:28 <myname> no need for positive x
09:51:54 <myname> on the other hand, |x| = if x x 0 then -x else x
09:53:02 <myname> well, i isn't negative
09:54:50 <myname> my point is: i follows every rule the reals follow, your @ does not
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09:56:04 <mroman> How to counter sea-level rise: Kill some whales.
09:57:38 <mroman> xkcd's hooverboard is really buggy on my browser
09:57:55 <mroman> some old version of iceweasel of course
09:58:03 <mroman> esoteric in what sense?
09:58:14 <mroman> Rather than using feet you could use penis
09:58:28 <mroman> where one penis is the average size of a human penis
09:59:19 <mroman> then you can state the size of a strapon in penises .
09:59:27 <mroman> both in width and length.
10:00:11 <myname> "strapon-size: 2 penisses"
10:00:46 <hppavilion[1]> myname: But in the mathematical sense, can you think of any esoteric units? Or perhaps operations?
10:01:17 <mroman> meaning it's twice as thick as a usual penis and twice as long
10:01:51 <mroman> I thought strapons where just for miley cyrus to wear on parties
10:02:18 <mroman> can you fold a penis into a sphere?
10:02:43 <mroman> everything that doesn't have a hole in it is homomorph to a sphere or something?
10:02:43 <myname> is there a klein-penis?
10:03:12 <mroman> if you can make everything into a sphere
10:03:14 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: Oh, no holes? then no, unless there is something horribly wrong
10:03:19 <mroman> than you can use banachi-tarski to clone it
10:03:24 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: I did try to formulate the modal "Porn Logic"
10:03:57 <myname> in porn logic, the only predicate you have is "bangs"
10:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> There's the ternary operator F1=move>F2 (where "F" stands for "Fucker", not "Female", and that means that one makes a move towards another. Success is guaranteed.)
10:07:21 <izabera> wth are you guys talking about
10:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I believe it is spelled "penises" because english is weird.
10:09:36 <myname> we need a symbol for the penis unit
10:11:12 <hppavilion[1]> I would like to see an eso/joke lang/lib called "ψ" that provides a high-level interface for telepathy, mind-reading, subliminal massaging, and mind control
10:12:57 <izabera> is there any kernel hacker here?
10:13:32 <izabera> i want to do a thing but i don't know where to start
10:14:00 <mroman> You should see "Demolition man"
10:14:08 <mroman> with silvester stallone
10:14:53 <mroman> "Do you know Demolition man" is a good age indicator .
10:15:30 <mroman> That or beverly hills cop
10:15:50 <mroman> basically anyone who doesn't know beverly hills cop, demolition man and police academy is too young.
10:16:23 <mroman> actually 25 pretty soon
10:17:52 <mroman> The movies are from the 80s
10:17:58 <mroman> but they were still popular in the 90s
10:18:10 <mroman> so lots of 90s kids watched them as children
10:19:14 <mroman> also if "I'm too old for this shit" doesn't ring any bell
10:19:53 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: It rings a bell for me, but only through How I Met Your Mother
10:21:17 <mroman> http://www.blogcdn.com/de.engadget.com/media/2011/06/kodakusbfilm.jpg <- I need one of those
10:23:14 <izabera> i want to change linux so that unlink("/dev/fd/42") is the same as close(42)
10:23:24 <izabera> and symlink("123", "/dev/fd/42") is the same as dup(42, 123)
10:23:39 <izabera> how are these things implemented?
10:23:48 <izabera> i know 0 kernel programming <.<
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10:26:33 <mroman> probably through VFS of some sort
10:26:38 <mroman> but I'm no linux expert either :(
10:57:54 <oerjan> this xkcd lava wasn't particularly lethal
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11:20:38 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, this new thing explainer book is pretty good proof that randall can make shit even out of things he's still good at
11:24:58 <Phantom_Hoover> it wasn't a very interesting gimmick the first time around and it's even less interesting stretched out to a full book
11:34:37 <mroman> So they book isn't really worth buying then?
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11:47:29 <izabera> i've got an interview tomorrow and i'm scared
11:49:48 <Taneb> izabera, believe in yourself!
11:53:25 <izabera> time to nervously eat the whole fridge
11:53:53 <lambdabot> Taneb asked 11h 51m 23s ago: How do you decline Taneb?
11:54:07 <boily> Taneb: I think oerjan can help you for that.
11:54:26 <Taneb> I was more wondering how you got the vocative
11:54:48 <Taneb> Latin goes-like-servus?
11:55:03 <boily> izabellora. an interview for what? how many cubic feet for your fridge? do you like your fridges toasted, boiled, sashimi?
11:55:25 <boily> Taneb: I wikipédiaed some latin declensions, and went with -e because it looked like it would fit the case.
11:55:38 <Taneb> Then it is goes-like-servus
11:55:42 <izabera> i had to google how many meters is a foot
11:56:13 <boily> you and your weird measurements...
11:57:15 <Taneb> Well, I just wish I lived in a place that used one system consistently
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13:08:27 <mroman> given f(x) where f(x) returns the number of digits in x! how fast does f(x) grow?
13:08:49 <mroman> (i.e. length of factorial)
13:09:01 <Jafet> That question logs hard.
13:10:31 <mroman> also can every prime be written as a sum of two fibonacci numbers?
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13:11:34 <Jafet> There is a remarkable result, though, that some sorting algorithms have running time O(f(x)).
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13:16:20 <mroman> one with O(log(n)) would be nice though .
13:17:01 * oerjan thinks he's now explored all of randall's star destroyer that he can reach
13:31:32 <b_jonas> "also can every prime be written as a sum of two fibonacci numbers" of course not, duh
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13:33:05 <Taneb> 17 is the first counterexample, i think
13:34:48 <Jafet> There just aren't quite enough fibonacci numbers for that to work, anyway
13:38:04 <mroman> well this implicit harvard association test concludes I prefer black people over white people
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13:50:02 <mroman> maybe it's just faster to decide whether a person is black rather than white
13:50:11 <mroman> because of the distinct facial features and structure.
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13:54:12 <Taneb> What ever happened to metasepia
13:54:15 <Taneb> Whose bot was that
13:57:39 <Taneb> It was lambdabotish
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13:59:41 <\oren\_> I should have taken a course in geology
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14:08:29 <oerjan> metasepia was boily's bot.
14:09:05 <HackEgo> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
14:09:18 <b_jonas> fungot, what or who is metasepia?
14:09:18 <fungot> b_jonas: what is wrong with guile?' token is also used as a, b
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14:39:30 <Taneb> I'm at an event about doing a doctorate here in York
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14:47:53 <int-e> metasepia invented @metar but with a different prefix that I forgot
14:54:29 <Taneb> No, that'd clash with fungot
14:54:29 <fungot> Taneb: i just need to link it in with the fnord goal of printf("hello, world! or hello, world
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16:07:11 <mroman> fungot: How's the fnord?
16:07:12 <fungot> mroman: st is there, so now all we need for turing-completeness would be increment and decrement by setting flags on its data about variables... just anywhere outside a method?
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16:13:59 <HackEgo> [U+27E8 MATHEMATICAL LEFT ANGLE BRACKET]
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16:33:10 <HackEgo> [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0067 LATIN SMALL LETTER G] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L]
16:33:17 <HackEgo> [U+0022 QUOTATION MARK] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0067 LATIN SMALL LETTER G] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+0022 QUOTATION MARK]
16:33:24 <HackEgo> U+1F47C BABY ANGEL \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 bc UTF-16BE: d83ddc7c Decimal: 👼 \ 👼 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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17:20:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45628&oldid=45410 * Luis Mendo * (+525)
17:25:35 <FireFly> int-e: I believe metasepia used ~
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18:04:57 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
18:04:58 <fungot> HackEgo: it looks like someone could write an implementation. you'll have 3. write down solution
18:05:38 <int-e> FireFly: I believe you are correct
18:06:05 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
18:07:00 <int-e> `` ls -la /dev/kmem
18:07:01 <HackEgo> crw-r----- 1 0 15 1, 2 Jan 29 2014 /dev/kmem
18:09:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[UberGenes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45629&oldid=45627 * Quintopia * (-45) /* Implementations */ moregolfed
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19:38:22 <hppavilion[1]> That way, we can have a hyperoperation that returns i or Sgeo's @
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20:27:23 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn Alg. II/Algae II, the successor class to Algae. I. Discusses hydroponics and such
20:29:43 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
20:30:12 <shachaf> The joke of that entry is that you can't create that entry using le/rn.
20:30:39 <int-e> (or rather I was going to check for any signs of mkdir in the script)
20:30:46 <shachaf> OK, well, it took me a moment.
20:30:56 <int-e> though that's only half the problem :)
20:31:13 <shachaf> The problem is syntactical.
20:31:19 <shachaf> But that's why we have mk.
20:31:51 <int-e> `` echo bin/*slash*
20:31:52 <HackEgo> bin/slashes bin/slashlearn
20:32:11 <shachaf> But it still doesn't mkdir
20:32:44 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key" && echo "$key"
20:32:46 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
20:33:50 * int-e was absent, checking those things for himself in the mercurial browser
20:38:58 <HackEgo> int-e tswett tswett shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf
20:39:18 <shachaf> `` hg log bin/slashlearn | grep summary:
20:39:20 <HackEgo> summary: <int-e> ` sed -i 1a\'[[ "$1" = */* ]] || exit\' bin/slashlearn \ summary: <shachaf> revert 5151 \ summary: <shachaf> ` sed -i -e \'3a [ -e wisdom/"$topic" ] && op=\'\\\'\'Overwrote\'\\\'\' || op=\'\\\'\'Wrote\'\\\'\'\' -e \'s/Learned/$op/\' bin/slashlearn \ summary: <shachaf> ` echo $\'#!/bin/bash\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | lowe
20:43:01 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current \ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed \
20:43:46 <HackEgo> bin/mkx \ bin/mov \ bin/tclkit
20:43:54 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
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20:44:07 <HackEgo> ELF............>.....`6@.....@.......(..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@................................8......8@.....8@............................................@.......@................... ..................a.....a...........
20:46:57 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 7 Jun 21 02:47 bin/mov -> /bin/mv
20:52:41 <HackEgo> tswett tswett oerjan elliott kmc
20:54:23 <HackEgo> tswett tswett oerjan elliott kmc
20:54:59 <HackEgo> s3546601434927141s8p77o8410rpn1s399043rs ova/zbi
20:55:56 <int-e> I don't know... context is http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2013-04-14.txt (search for bin/mov)
20:56:11 <HackEgo> shachaf1sum is /hackenv/bin/shachaf1sum
20:56:17 <izabera> `cat /hackenv/bin/shachaf1sum
20:56:19 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ sha1sum "$@" | tr a-z n-za-m
20:56:29 <int-e> or maybe that's how you found shachaf1sum
20:56:46 <int-e> izabera: because rot13 is a great encryption scheme
20:59:00 <int-e> . o O ( sha1sum "$@" | tr 0-9a-f '[0*]' )
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21:39:29 <FireFly> what does that do? specifically, '[0*]'?
21:39:54 <FireFly> oh huh, repeat syntax. I didn't know about that
21:40:34 <HackEgo> tswett tswett oerjan elliott kmc
21:41:25 <FireFly> int-e: I think it's been established that rot13 is the welsh translator
21:41:28 <HackEgo> 796) <Gregor> !rot13 Fluttershy Rainbow Dash Rarity Applejack Twilight Sparkle Pinkie Pie <EgoBot> Syhggreful Envaobj Qnfu Enevgl Nccyrwnpx Gjvyvtug Fcnexyr Cvaxvr Cvr <olsner> oh, they're all named after rot13'd welsh words \ 916) <olsner> as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just lik
21:41:47 <izabera> completely equivalent to tr 0-9a-f 0
21:42:33 <izabera> but that's more leet i guess
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22:30:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45630&oldid=44277 * Hppavilion1 * (+337) Testing rowspan table
22:42:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45631&oldid=45628 * Luis Mendo * (+242) /* Compiler */
22:46:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Unicode/Potential Meanings/Basic Latin]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45632 * Hppavilion1 * (+1716) Created Page
22:47:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45633&oldid=45631 * Luis Mendo * (+116)
22:48:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Unicode/Potential Meanings/Basic Latin]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45634&oldid=45632 * Hppavilion1 * (-53) Fixed formatting
22:49:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45635&oldid=45633 * Luis Mendo * (-45) /* Compiler */
22:49:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45636&oldid=45635 * Luis Mendo * (+1) /* Compiler */
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23:01:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45637&oldid=45636 * Luis Mendo * (+116) /* Compiler */
23:04:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45638&oldid=45637 * Luis Mendo * (+334) /* Compiler */
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23:05:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45639&oldid=45638 * Luis Mendo * (-22) /* Compiler */
23:08:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45640&oldid=45639 * Luis Mendo * (-91) /* Specification */
23:08:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45641&oldid=45640 * Luis Mendo * (+6) /* Compiler */
23:09:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45642&oldid=45641 * Luis Mendo * (+2) /* Specification */
23:09:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45643&oldid=45642 * Luis Mendo * (-1) /* Compiler */
23:21:29 <boily_> izabellora. you should take a look at https://github.com/bo0ts/ddate
23:22:36 <boily_> the source is interesting. fnord.
23:23:33 <izabera> https://github.com/bo0ts/ddate/blob/master/ddate.c#L67 uhm...
23:26:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45644&oldid=45643 * Luis Mendo * (+224) /* Hello, world! */
23:26:56 <izabera> weirdest piece of c code i've ever seen
23:32:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45645&oldid=45644 * Luis Mendo * (+21) /* Hello, world! */
23:34:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45646&oldid=45645 * Luis Mendo * (+154) /* Fibonacci sequence */
23:34:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45647&oldid=45646 * Luis Mendo * (-6) /* Fibonacci sequence */
23:34:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45648&oldid=45647 * Luis Mendo * (+2) /* Fibonacci sequence */
23:39:38 <zzo38> Much of the program seems strange.
23:41:11 <zzo38> (Although, it is supposed to be Discordian, so I suppose that is OK since at least it is not too much problem and so on)
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23:42:58 <zzo38> Although I would have prefer to remove the '.' and 'X' formats, and to add a command-line switch to change between Gregorian-based or Julian-based dates (the former is more common although sometimes the latter is used)
23:45:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45649&oldid=45648 * Luis Mendo * (+107) /* Example programs */
23:50:09 <zzo38> Everything else is OK though