00:12:08 <quintopia> question: are there any sequences that give themselves after n>2 applications of run-length encoding (but after no fewer applications)
00:13:21 <hppavilion[1]> Or is short 32 on systems where long is 64, and 16 where long is 32?
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00:58:45 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: A short is 16 or more bits.
00:58:55 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: In common implementations it's 16 unconditionally.
00:59:24 <pikhq> An int is also 16 or more bits, and in common implementations it's 32 unconditionally.
00:59:41 <pikhq> long is 32 or more bits, and generally 32 or 64.
00:59:47 <pikhq> And long long is always 64 or more.
01:00:01 <pikhq> (but in common implementations always 64)
01:04:49 <hppavilion[1]> I decided that, in the typemaker stdlib, bool is actually just a 1-bit unsigned integer
01:05:33 <hppavilion[1]> So you can (pretending this is valid syntax) do 5+True, and it equals 6
01:12:25 <fizzie> Put another way, typical (short, int, long, long long) tuplets are (16, 32, 32, 64) and (16, 32, 64, 64) -- the former for "32-bit systems" and 64-bit Windows, the latter for 64-bit non-Windows. "Small" systems (and old MS-DOS compilers) can be (16, 16, 32, 64) or possibly just (16, 16, 32) if they don't do long long.
01:16:06 <fizzie> Not that those are the only possibilities, just the common ones. I think I recall a Motorola DSP56k C implementation where it's (24, 24, 48, not supported).
01:21:00 <pikhq> I was pretty specifically just describing the standard + common implementation choices. But, yeah.
01:22:02 <pikhq> Though I know there's no point in doing so now, I'd *like* to see a DOS-targetting C compiler that outputs code in real mode that does (16, 32, 32, 64) and flat memory addressing.
01:22:24 <pikhq> It'd be pointless but humorous.
01:23:32 <fizzie> Yeah, I just liked to see them summarized like that.
01:24:22 <fizzie> The TI compiler for the TMS320C54x has (char, short, int, long, long long) set of (16, 16, 16, 32, kinda-sorta 40).
01:24:53 <pikhq> I suppose if you wanted to be *really* silly you could write a C compiler that runs in real mode while supporting EMS and similar for data.
01:24:58 <fizzie> I don't think it can do arithmetic for long long, but it uses that for some intrinsics that make use of the 40-bit accumulators.
01:26:29 <pikhq> Y'know, so you can do things on a IBM PC with an expansion board installed.
01:27:31 <hppavilion[1]> Are there Pope Numbers? By analogy to Cardinal Numbers?
01:32:05 <hppavilion[1]> And, of course, Priest Numbers? And Acolyte Numbers? And any-other-catholicy-word Numbers?
01:33:33 <hppavilion[1]> Such that this generalization's equivalent of the Cardinals
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01:45:47 <zzo38> Writing real mode DOS program isn't completely useless, I think. Some people might use it, possibly with FreeDOS or DOSBOX instead of MS-DOS, though.
01:46:47 <pikhq> zzo38: The main thing that makes it useless is the set of people who would use it have at least a 386, so are quite satisfied by DJGPP.
01:46:51 <zzo38> (But there are problems with DOSBOX; some things are not implemented properly, both hardware and software emulation have a few things wrong. I think one is CGA high-colour mode, which has never been used until recently anyways)
01:47:15 <pikhq> Yeah, DOSBOX has a few issues, largely because DOSBOX primarily targets games.
01:47:28 <pikhq> And so if it's not used by an old school DOS game they mostly don't care.
01:48:51 <zzo38> Then they need to make the version that they do care ("DOSBOX Professional Edition"?), such as by the forked version, that does it more.
01:49:02 <zzo38> But even some stuff having to do with game is not quite working properly
01:49:15 <zzo38> Or, could be useful to have with some games, such as quicksave/quickload features
01:49:31 <zzo38> I would want to have a debugger included too though
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01:59:24 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: really, phrases like "cardinal numbers", "ordinal numbers", "surreal numbers", and so forth are just mnemonics.
02:00:09 <tswett> There's this thing called the "number galaxy" which describes all of the different types of numbers there are.
02:00:18 <tswett> "Galaxy" is an overstatement; there are only 20 of them.
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02:01:01 <tswett> Oh no, he's gone. I can no longer lie to him.
02:02:16 <tswett> @tell hppavilion[1] I bet your sin() and cos() take their arguments in radians.
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02:15:49 <zzo38> What is your opinion of my idea of TVMIDI?
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03:26:30 <zzo38> A way to control such device as TV cable box or satellite box with MIDI
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03:39:15 <zzo38> Is it possible to tell 7-Zip to compress a file from stdin but give it a different name in the archive?
03:44:46 <zzo38> I get a E_NOINTERFACE error when I try.
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03:58:51 * Elronnd wonders when #esoteric turned into ##unixTechSupport
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06:46:28 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> I tried `x, y += sin(direc), cos(direc)` which didn't work <-- imo sin and cos are switched hth
06:51:25 <zzo38> I figured out how to do what I asked; I found a PHP program to do that so I used that.
06:54:50 <oerjan> @tell quintopia <quintopia> question: are there any sequences that give themselves after n>2 applications of run-length encoding (but after no fewer applications) <-- almost certainly...
06:55:50 <oerjan> @tell quintopia unless you mean _finite_ sequences - a well-known theorem of the look-and-say sequences is that 22 is the only non-exploding one.
06:59:02 <oerjan> > let ls = map (show . length <> take 1) . group in iterate ls "1"
06:59:05 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘[Char]’ with ‘Char’
06:59:05 <lambdabot> Expected type: [String] -> [String]
06:59:30 <oerjan> > let ls = concatMap (show . length <> take 1) . group in iterate ls "1"
06:59:33 <lambdabot> ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","31131211131...
06:59:55 <oerjan> gah that's not long enough to see the repetition
07:00:47 * oerjan swats lambdabot for its short answers -----###
07:01:23 <zzo38> Look and say sequence is, each one is the run-length-encoding of the previous one. I have figured out how to prove that numbers greater than 3 does not occur and that "333" does not occur.
07:02:59 <oerjan> zzo38: then i suggest the next step is to show that every sequence will eventually have only numbers starting with 1 or 3, or only numbers starting with 2.
07:03:19 <oerjan> that's enough to tell you atoms ought to exist.
07:03:51 <oerjan> the rest is just checking every possible case, i think
07:06:27 <oerjan> ^ul ((::**)~^)((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(0)(!^))~*^^S!)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
07:06:29 <fungot> 3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 132113213221133112132123123112111311222112 ...out of time!
07:07:13 <oerjan> ^ul (()~^)((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(0)(!^))~*^^S!)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
07:07:15 <fungot> 1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211, 13112221, 1113213211, 31131211131221, 13211311123113112211, 11131221133112132113212221, 3113112221232112111312211312113211, 1321132132111213122112311311222113111221131221, 11131221131211131231121113112221121321132132211331222113112211, 3113112221131112311311121321123113213 ...out of time!
07:07:19 <zzo38> OK, although I am not sure what the "atoms" are, that ought to exist?
07:08:29 <oerjan> zzo38: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-and-say_sequence#Cosmological_Decay
07:16:37 <oerjan> @tell quintopia looking at the l&s sequence starting with 1, i'm pretty sure that the 1113122 prefix recurs every 3 steps and will grow to an infinite sequence that does the same.
07:19:21 <oerjan> > let ls = concatMap (show . length <> take 1) . group in let p = ls . ls . ls $ "1113122" ++ drop 7 p in p
07:19:23 <lambdabot> "111312211312111322212321121113121112131112132112311321322112111312212321121...
07:19:38 <oerjan> @tell quintopia > let ls = concatMap (show . length <> take 1) . group in let p = ls . ls . ls $ "1113122" ++ drop 7 p in p
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08:29:31 <oerjan> > let ls = show . length <> take 1 <=< group in iterate ls "1"
08:29:33 <lambdabot> ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","31131211131...
08:30:31 <lambdabot> Monad m => (b -> m c) -> (a -> m b) -> a -> m c
08:30:43 <oerjan> f <=< g = \x -> g x >>= f
08:30:43 <mauris_> it's kleisli arrow composition, or something!
08:31:01 <oerjan> <> is mappend, which is pointwise on functions
08:31:28 <mauris_> @pl (<=<) `asAppliedTo` unsafeCoerce
08:31:30 <myname> ah, <=< is like a monadic version of .
08:31:47 <mauris_> i thought that was a thing. ;_;
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08:33:28 <oerjan> > asAppliedTo succ 1 2
08:33:38 <oerjan> > asAppliedTo succ undefined 2
08:33:49 <oerjan> it's similar to asTypeOf
08:34:12 <myname> it just drops an argument?
08:34:30 <oerjan> yes, but forces the two arguments to be the same type.
08:34:49 <oerjan> > asAppliedTo succ 0.0 2
08:35:29 <oerjan> > asAppliedTo succ 'a' minBound
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08:39:51 <oerjan> basically it's a trick for resolving ambiguous types. these days most use the ScopedTypeVariables extension instead.
08:56:09 <oerjan> oh that's what the fixion is
09:05:13 * oerjan learns about the neutron electric dipole moment
09:09:05 <oerjan> interesting, it's unobserved but the upper bound is five orders of magnitude larger than the boring theoretical prediction. sounds within range in the future...
09:10:27 <oerjan> (boring because a larger one could help explain matter vs. antimatter)
09:23:47 <oerjan> "Valery Nesvizhevsky of the Institute Laue-Langevin and colleagues found that cold neutrons moving in a gravitational field do not move smoothly but jump from one height to another, as predicted by quantum theory."
09:25:44 <Taneb> A vague half-memory is telling me I was the person who first added asAppliedTo to lambdabot
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10:47:27 <oerjan> yeah, it pretty much says that gravitation _is_ quantum, we just don't know how yet
10:48:11 <coppro> how did they figure that?
10:48:47 <oerjan> i don't know, it's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracold_neutrons#Observation_of_the_gravitational_interactions_of_the_neutron
10:50:11 <oerjan> there's a reference but it's not linked properly.
10:52:20 <oerjan> i found it while wikiwalking from today's xkcd.
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12:37:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RFOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45994&oldid=34003 * LegionMammal978 * (+1) /* Explanation (if ever were one needed) */
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13:59:36 <trn> Merry Christmas guys
14:58:27 <Taneb> I wrote this for my uni's CS society: https://twitter.com/HackSoc/status/680315314941366272
15:05:16 <Taneb> ^bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>[>+>+<<-]>+>++++++++.<.++.-->+++.[->+>+<<]>++++++++++++++.++++++.-------.----->++.<<<.>>.
15:11:27 <fizzie> I just watched the Queen's Christmas Message for the first time.
15:11:37 <fizzie> Would it be impolite to say it was just a tiny bit boring?
15:14:00 <Taneb> It's one of those capital-T Traditions
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16:10:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pig]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45995&oldid=45861 * LegionMammal978 * (-90) /* Interpreter */
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16:24:28 <Sgeo|Hell> Apartment being renovated. Stuck at dad and step-mom house. I may have frowned at her when I saw her at the airport, she's pissed off. I wasn't expecting to see her, dad had previously said he didn't think she'd wake up early to meet me after I indicated I'd rather avoid seeing her
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16:25:13 <boily> MERRY ESOTERICHRISTMAS!
16:25:42 <Sgeo|Hell> Merry coming back to the USA to a nightmare mas
16:26:22 <oerjan> bohily. merreux juvidad!
16:29:03 <Taneb> Sgeo|Hell, next year if you can pretend to be a university student you can come to my parents' instead
16:30:39 <Sgeo|Hell> I just want to hear from someone objective I think. And also independence. That would be nice.
16:31:24 <boily> Sgeo|Hello. how many brimstone pits out of ten would you rate your Hell?
16:31:37 <oerjan> i don't know how to be objective about such things
16:36:02 * oerjan has never quite noticed whether Sgeo|Hell's family celebrates christmas or not
16:36:31 <oerjan> s/noticed/got quite clear on/
16:36:53 <oerjan> also, i'm not sure whether that would make it better or worse.
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16:40:33 * oerjan is suddenly reminded of one of his mother's memorable statements, which translates to approximately "You ought to be able to have fun with people you don't like."
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16:42:18 <boily> Sgeo pinged out. are they still alive?
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16:42:58 <boily> oerjan: we're going to be celebrating christmas here at my parent's house. I don't know how many people will come, and I'll most certainly not know them all.
16:48:22 <oerjan> any crazy aunts or uncles
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16:52:22 <Sgeo|Phone> Family is Jewish, no Christmas celebrations. Also, webchat on phone is annoying, I think phone swaps out web pages frequently, hence my ping out
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16:54:05 <boily> oerjan: more like cousins with creative backstories.
16:57:21 <oerjan> now i want to find that old "jiddishkeit" test i once read...
16:59:06 <oerjan> i think it was back on usenet and i cannot find any trace on it. except i recall there was one question that had question options ranging to "hannukah bush" and "christmas tree"
17:00:22 * oerjan also noticed hannukah was early this year
17:00:33 <boily> is it some kind of geek code test?
17:01:40 <zzo38> Christmas is not just for Christians, although it is where the name comes from. It is a national holiday too.
17:02:20 <oerjan> boily: ooh adding geek code i found it http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Apr/yiddishkeit.html
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17:06:42 * oerjan recalls having a .sig file
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17:37:47 <boily> TIL there are Yemenite Reconstructionists.
17:40:19 <oerjan> i was wondering about that one
17:42:30 <boily> do you have multiples wives and/or husbands and/or fungots?
17:42:30 <fungot> boily: that is good to remove).
17:42:44 <fungot> boily: to a max of 3 digits, i think that's actually a meme on a forum about 15 minutes to encounter an error?
17:43:08 <fungot> boily: some demos at fnord were just some interesting ideas, but it would work much better then
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19:17:01 <zzo38> Do you still have the .sig file?
19:24:28 <zzo38> I wanted to run my own NNTP server in order to invent Unusenet; all of the group names must start with "un" and then optionally a number and then a dot, and then the rest is in RDN format. If the number is included, it is used to specify how to find the primary server; if no number is specified then it means the primary server is unspecified.
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19:40:31 <zzo38> This is a Un-card suggested by my brother: In A Band With Others {1W} Enchantment - Aura ;; Enchant creature ;; Whenever enchanted creature attacks as part of a band containing additional creatures, its controller must sing a song during the entire duration of the attack. Combat damage is not dealt until song is complete.
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19:46:32 <oerjan> zzo38: i have some old .sig files concatenated in .sig.old
19:48:08 <boily> hezzo38. you have a brother?
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19:59:17 <lambdabot> KGRR 251953Z 32006KT 10SM FEW028 SCT250 08/M01 A3027 RMK AO2 SLP255 T00781011
20:00:00 <tswett> Remind me what SLP255 means?
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20:08:46 <zzo38> Yes I have brother
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23:25:57 <deltab> tswett: current barometric pressure extrapolated to sea level is 1025.5 hPa
23:26:16 <tswett> Ah, right. Sea-level pressure.
23:38:21 <hppavilion[1]> deltab: Are you a bot? That message looked bery botty
23:39:28 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Here's an idea for a language. A full, TC-with-IO-and-shit language. Based entirely on matched brackets (not necessarily all parentheses)
23:39:57 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: ey was answering my question.
23:40:00 <hppavilion[1]> Even better, a full-blown mathematical logic/calculus/whatever
23:40:16 <tswett> "What does SLP255 mean?" "It means current barometric pressure extrapolated to sea level is 1025.5 hPa."
23:41:01 <hppavilion[1]> I wasn't logged in until the response, which looked like it was autofetched and formatted into a pre-made message
23:41:27 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: What do you think of the Bracket Logic idea?
23:44:59 <hppavilion[1]> There's probably be a preprocessor that lets you generate strings
23:46:31 <tswett> Well... sounds a lot like Lisp or something.
23:46:46 <tswett> But, y'know, without the things other than parentheses.
23:47:57 <tswett> Anyway, here's an idea.
23:48:16 <Taneb> I am not sure how, but I've ended up in an argument in another channel about whether Unicode adding emoji is a bad thing or not
23:48:21 <Taneb> (I'm on the "not" side)
23:48:28 <tswett> Take the Iota "i" operator.
23:48:56 <tswett> (abc...) means (i a b c ...).
23:48:57 * hppavilion[1] robs the Museum of Eso and takes the Iota "i" operator
23:49:23 <tswett> So, for example, ((()())(()())(()())) means (i (i i i) (i i i) (i i i)).
23:50:44 <hppavilion[1]> That works, but I was thinking of a more parenthesis-rich language
23:51:12 <tswett> Like... more than 100% parentheses?
23:51:17 <hppavilion[1]> (...), [...], {...}, <...>, (*...*), [|...|], etc. etc. etc.
23:51:34 <hppavilion[1]> It could probably be reduced to pure parentheses, but I would avoid that
23:51:46 <hppavilion[1]> And I'd want to try to make it something new, instead of just OISP
23:52:31 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, I guess that's looking for a little much, as I'm not a real mathematician yet xD
23:52:32 <tswett> Well, make it so that () uses the S operator, [] uses the K operator, and {} uses the I operator.
23:52:45 <tswett> Not to be confused with the Iota "i" operator.
23:53:05 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: But that's not "new", that's just combinatory logic with a slightly new (and, admittedly, probably better) syntax
23:53:54 <hppavilion[1]> (You should write a short paper on []=S, {}=K combinatory logic. See if we can get it adopted into common use.)
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23:54:18 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: My initial thought was to make {}=0, {{}}=1, etc.
23:54:30 <hppavilion[1]> But then I realized that that's not as much fun as what I /could/ do
23:54:54 <hppavilion[1]> I want to make a highly-extensible logic of some sort based entirely around matched brackets. THAT is my goal.