00:00:50 <oerjan> <myname> i still don't get why you read all the backlogs <-- ALSO TRADITION (sometimes i give up though)
00:01:21 <myname> back in these days with more bots than active users?
00:01:23 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/u8tbl: line 1: 293 Segmentation fault u8tbl.exe $@
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00:02:00 <myname> oerjan: how much time do you spend with that?
00:02:33 <oerjan> shachaf: it might get canceled out by the `olist hth
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00:05:07 <oerjan> if it's long i generally multitask while doing it, so it's hard to measure.
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00:07:51 <oerjan> <\oren\> speaking of which, how do i make orenwatson.be redirect to www.orenwatson.be? <-- i'm pretty sure there are people championing the opposite convention hth
00:08:33 <\oren\> well right now neither one reditrects, they jsut both go to the same ip
00:08:54 <oerjan> right, which is a bit awkward because you get parallel urls
00:09:11 <oerjan> (same if you have both http and https)
00:13:55 <\oren\> I don't see why browsers don't cache based on ip instead of domain name
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00:16:14 <shachaf> What do IPs have to do with anything?
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00:18:30 <\oren\> shachaf: well my server has an ip
00:18:50 <oerjan> \oren\: there are a lot of webhosts providing several entirely different websites from one ip
00:19:26 <oerjan> presumably as domain names are much less scarce than ipv4
00:19:32 <ais523> oerjan: actually doing that is apparently now mandatory
00:19:43 <ais523> i.e. if you run two websites from one physical server, they both have to be from the same IP
00:19:58 <ais523> in an attempt to reduce IPv4s being exhausted for stupid reasons
00:20:02 <ais523> (this doesn't apply to IPv6)
00:20:09 <ais523> oerjan: you don't get the IP being allocated otherwise
00:24:31 * oerjan notes that www.google.no and www.google.se are the same ip, although www.google.com is different.
00:25:00 <\oren\> 52.2.213.98 is the ip of my server
00:25:49 <oerjan> \oren\: the point is, anyway, that the ip is not enough to tell whether two urls with only hostname different give the same result
00:25:52 <\oren\> so theoretically, the browser could note that both www.orenwatson.be and orenwatson.be are 52.2.213.98:80
00:26:00 <ais523> err, I should say same virtual serer
00:26:24 <ais523> \oren\: yes but they might have different content
00:26:47 <ais523> the recommendation from http://no-www.org is to have the www. version redirect to the non-www. version
00:26:48 <\oren\> hmm, then should I redirect www to plain or vice versa?
00:26:50 <ais523> although they are obviously biased
00:29:10 <oerjan> i recall there's an opposing site but i think that one is mainly a joke
00:29:32 <ais523> the competing site is http://www.yes-www.org/
00:29:37 <ais523> …I should have guessed that
00:31:45 <oerjan> "I’ve even seen a few pathological cases where, given a URL, they will type www.google.com or another search engine into the address bar, and then type the URL they actually want to go to into Google’s search field!"
00:32:13 <myname> which is axtually quite common
00:32:21 <oerjan> i guess it's not a joke after all
00:33:02 <myname> well, most people put it into the google startpage
00:34:05 <ais523> I've heard reports of people entering "google" into Google's search field, then searching their actual query from the resulting page
00:40:09 <oerjan> <\oren\> the first lady of the united states is not allowed to be hot! <-- oh so _that_ is the real reason why they killed jfk!
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00:42:42 <ais523> hmm, when I see <\oren\> posted like that, it looks a bit like an HTML tag
00:43:01 <ais523> let's not get into another of those comment tag closing threads though </ais523>
00:43:09 <oerjan> from an alternative universe, perhaps
00:43:56 * oerjan doesn't have < before nicks in irssi, anyway.
00:45:45 <oerjan> suddenly my logreading slips away to a tatham puzzle
00:46:27 <oerjan> (currently being "Range")
00:47:16 <myname> i am puzzling that new one a lot
00:47:32 <myname> it's fairly easy, though
00:48:23 <myname> i actually enjoy that zombie/vampire/ghost one
00:48:26 <oerjan> i tend to cycle alphabetically, so that was a short while ago.
00:49:25 <\oren\> since www.orenwatson.be is long, I'm going to use the no-www convention
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00:56:58 <myname> does anybody know the game "quattropoli"? (at least that's the name i know it under)
00:57:48 <tswett> myname: I haven't heard of it. What's it like?
00:58:30 <myname> ypu have a 4x4 game board and 16 different cards
00:58:51 <myname> each card has 4 properties: outer form, inner form, outer color, inner color
00:59:13 <myname> with form being circle or square and color.being black and white
00:59:46 <myname> what you have to achieve is make a row of 4 cards which share at least one property
01:00:03 <myname> you always choose the card your opponent has to play
01:01:53 <ais523> does each player play to their own board?
01:02:13 <myname> there is one shared board and one shared set of 16 cards
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01:02:17 <ais523> so shared board, and you're aiming to be the first to complete a line
01:02:23 <tswett> Do diagonal lines count?
01:02:27 <ais523> but one person chooses which card is played, the other chooses where
01:02:56 <ais523> this game seems brute-forceable to me when pruned properly
01:03:09 <tswett> Quick, someone teach it to a neural net.
01:03:34 <myname> i just liked the twist of not being able to choose what to play
01:03:48 <myname> the youthful me liked it a lot
01:04:42 <int-e> (it may be useful to know that without the twist there's an easy non-losing strategy for the second player)
01:05:45 <myname> destroy any row that can be dangerous?
01:06:36 <ais523> none of the standard second-player exploits obviously work
01:06:43 <ais523> so this must be a new or unusual one
01:07:06 <int-e> Win if you can; otherwise mirror your opponent's move.
01:07:28 <ais523> that's a clever variant on the normal mirroring situation
01:07:52 <\oren\> there should be a list of characters that look lik there was an error
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01:13:18 <\oren\> 〾 in particular looks like something has gone horribly wrong
01:14:10 <\oren\> it looks like a character lookup error that isn't the normal one
01:17:46 <\oren\> Oh no the reactor 〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾〾
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01:26:22 <HackEgo> [U+303E IDEOGRAPHIC VARIATION INDICATOR]
01:26:53 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Do you know anything about low-level GUI programming?
01:27:58 <zzo38> I know some things of GUI programming with Xlib and with VB6
01:28:12 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: using what sort of library or whatever?
01:29:00 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: My own GUI library that is; got phrased wrong
01:29:35 <tswett> That library for doing graphics and audio and so forth.
01:33:01 <ais523> tswett: yes but it's inefficient :-(
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01:52:01 * oerjan concludes that the 2nd player non-losing depends on there being an even number of cells in the shortest direction
01:54:36 <shachaf> oerjan: are you talking about the game of life hth
01:54:39 <oerjan> you need a mirroring that fixes no odd-length line
01:54:53 <oerjan> shachaf: no, myname's game
01:56:23 <oerjan> hm things get a bit fishy when not quadratic.
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01:58:22 <oerjan> or rather, int-e's simplification
01:59:28 <oerjan> hm with odd size, does the first player have an easy win by starting in the center
01:59:50 <oerjan> and from then doing a mirroring of the second player
02:02:49 <oerjan> mirroring around the center, that is, not a line
02:06:34 <myname> how do you mirror selecting if each card is unique?
02:12:22 <myname> liie, i start by selecting black outer square black inner square
02:12:35 <myname> you put it somewhere and want to mirror that
02:13:11 <myname> black outer square white inner square? black outer squeare black inner circle?
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02:16:02 <Guest96610> I found your channel in an old log of IRC
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02:16:30 <myname> also, there are 16! possible boards, being around 2.1 * 10^14
02:16:58 <\oren\> we also discuss esoteric board games, and fonts, etc...
02:17:10 <Guest96610> I'm looking for an specific esoteric language
02:18:05 <Guest96610> is there any way you point me on some direction with theses informations? ^^
02:19:21 <Guest96610> I may have a code (I guess it's code), I would need to know what does this code do
02:19:22 <myname> define pointing triangle. like, the symbol?
02:19:27 <Guest96610> 🐇 🐼 🍇 🐇🐖 🏁 ➡️ 🚂 🍇 🍮 s 0 🍮 i 0 🔁 ◀️ i 3427 🍇 🍊 ▶️ i 3418 🍇 🍳 s 🍉 🍓 🍇 🍫 s 🍉 🍫 i 🍉 😀 🔷🔡🚂 s 10 🍮 a 0 🍮 i 0 🔁 ◀️ i 1239 🍇🍊 ▶️ i 1229 🍇🍳 a🍉🍓 🍇🍫 a🍉🍫 i🍉😀 🔷🔡🚂 a 10🍎 0🍉🍉
02:20:04 <myname> doesn't look like any code i know
02:20:05 <\oren\> hmm there are various emoji language
02:20:32 <myname> but they either are fare more lisp like or less wordy
02:21:50 <Guest96610> hmm.. do you know where I can find what I'm looking for? I tried an esolang list, didn't recognize anything
02:25:31 <oerjan> <myname> how do you mirror selecting if each card is unique? <-- curses, foiled again
02:27:08 <\oren\> https://github.com/nasser/Emojinal
02:27:37 <\oren\> which does appear to use those emoji
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02:29:31 <oerjan> myname: actually, choosing the card with all properties opposite might work for the even case
02:30:07 <oerjan> for the odd there'll be trouble choosing the initial center
02:30:58 <oerjan> so, white outer circle white inner circle
02:31:33 <oerjan> myname: oh and this was all assuming without choosing your opponent's cards.
02:32:18 <myname> having odd numbers would imply a property having more than 2 ways
02:32:43 <myname> in which case there is no direct opposite
02:33:43 <oerjan> well i was assuming nothing about what cards would be with other board sizes
02:34:46 <oerjan> maybe you can manage something with a more complicated permutation of cards
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02:38:29 <myname> i need to talk somebody into writing an app for that
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03:24:39 <ais523> is there a word that means "not on fire"?
03:28:06 <MDude> Extinguished can mean "previously but not currently on fire".
03:28:56 <MDude> Though it can also mean twarted, or dead. Snuffed carries the same meaning.
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04:40:24 <hppavilion[1]> bender|: I'm writing a C-like language compiler targeting "TargetFuck"
04:43:15 <bender|> I remember seeing a C->BF compiler
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05:15:12 <\oren\> the king of jordan says turkey is behind isis
05:17:12 <oerjan> has the old guy turned senile now
05:17:20 <oerjan> wait, he's not that old is he
05:17:55 <\oren\> well yeah that was my first reaction it sounds like something my crazy greatuncle would say
05:39:34 <izabera> \oren\: are you oren in the online-go.com chat?
05:44:36 <\oren\> right now I'm playing ksp
06:26:21 <zzo38> I have written a document with some ideas about a new version of X protocol. If there is something you believe is currently wrong with X then I might add those too, in case you also have some ideas related to such thing.
06:31:24 <shachaf> zzo38: What if I think X should be more like NeWS?
06:32:12 <zzo38> shachaf: What are the differences of NeWS?
06:33:08 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS
06:33:40 <zzo38> izabera: Wayland also has several problems though.
06:33:53 <shachaf> newsham: Do you like NeWS?
06:35:49 <zzo38> I think there are problems with NeWS as well. X seems the best designed system so far (although many of its extensions are badly designed), although it has some problems too.
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06:36:56 <shachaf> X is too slow over slow networks.
06:38:18 <shachaf> can't do anything about the speed of light tdnh
06:39:34 <zzo38> Changes to the protocol could be made to improve speed; the server might also implement compressed connections if needed (which is really a network feature and would not be a part of the protocol)
06:45:05 <shachaf> That doesn't help with latency.
06:47:07 <zzo38> Some changes could possibly to improve latency too but not if it makes it complicated
06:51:55 <zzo38> It may be suitable as a standalone programming language for printing but it should not be the protocol (some printers use it as a protocol and I consider that a bad idea)
06:53:54 <shachaf> What language would you use for NeWS?
06:55:02 <zzo38> I do not believe the protocol should use anything like that
06:55:59 <shachaf> Do you like web applications?
06:56:26 <shachaf> Oh, did you relay my message to vaporware?
06:57:20 <zzo38> No (to both questions)
06:58:10 <shachaf> What do you think people should use instead of web applications?
06:58:58 <zzo38> Command-line program should be provided and also protocol for use with SQLite virtual tables.
07:03:42 <zzo38> Actually my ideas for new version of X does include support for stored procedures, although how they are implemented and what programming languages and so on (they might not even be implemented at all) is depend on the server implementation, although there is a standardized calling convention for stored procedures.
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13:05:37 <int-e> . o O ( @tell boily you still don't have any messages )
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16:13:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46650&oldid=46572 * MDude * (+832) two ideas, plus a generalization of the second one
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17:18:18 <APic> There is still no LLVM-_Back_end for Brainfuck, just a Frontend, right?
17:27:08 <APic> http://esolangs.org/wiki/C2BF looks like a good starting Point.
17:27:20 <myname> it's pretty hard to do such a thing
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17:31:53 <APic> All the easy Things are done in our infinite Multiverses ;)
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18:02:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46651&oldid=46496 * Captainpicard98 * (+118) Added the TIBrain implementation
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21:47:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46652&oldid=45553 * Rdebath * (+118) Moved from "Brainfuck" page
21:47:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46653&oldid=46651 * Rdebath * (-118) Interpreter not "Notabled", moved to "implementations" Undo revision 46651 by [[Special:Contributions/Captainpicard98|Captainpicard98]] ([[User talk:Captainpicard98|talk]])
21:53:25 <Sgeo__> I assume I don't count as a hirable type theorist
21:53:37 <Sgeo__> Just because I like experimenting with types in Rust
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22:04:51 <b_jonas> fungot, are you a hirable type theorist?
22:04:51 <fungot> b_jonas: s/ pee/ pea ofc the nature of the art is ' let john handle it, no
22:05:31 <b_jonas> @djinn a -> Either a b {- lambdabot, are you a hirable type theorist? -}
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22:58:55 <b_jonas> How much do you suppose people will be using CD-sized disks (including DVD and Bluray) say 12 years from now? I'm trying to tell if a DVD disk is a reasonable object for size comparison on a photo.
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23:01:32 <b_jonas> Maybe pencils or rubik's cubes or other similar objects whose size is designed to be convenient to hold in human hands are better.
23:02:19 <zzo38> I think a DVD is better because pencil and cube may be different sizes. But, ensure the DVD is labeled as "DVD" to don't confuse with other discs of different sizes
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23:03:02 <zzo38> However a ruler with inches and/or centimetres is another alternative
23:03:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: are there disks with different sizes that look similar? A ruler is a good idea, yes. How familiar are Americans with centimiters these days?
23:04:45 <b_jonas> Or with centimeter rulers, rather.
23:06:42 <zzo38> As long as it is labeled it should be OK. Many rulers have both though, so use one with both
23:08:44 <b_jonas> Hmm… I think many rulers aren't labelled as centimeters, but you can tell because centimeter rulers are divided to 10 ticks between numbered large ticks, whereas inch rulers are divided to 16 usually.
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23:12:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: other possible choices for comparison objects are: pen, coin or banknote (I don't like that one because it works only if the expected audience is from the same country and time), credit card, floppy disk, matches, door key, keyboard (that's another of those designed to match human hands), thimble, drinking glass, human hand.
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23:20:12 <b_jonas> AA battery, light bulb, ear plug, computer power socket or plug, VGA socket, toothbrush, …
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23:58:28 <Sgeo__> I assume it's a strict subset of CSS
23:59:00 <int-e> one hour before they steal 60 minutes from us
23:59:09 <int-e> how does that make you feel?