00:00:17 <oerjan> because assigning to argv isn't that common
00:00:53 <moon_> im assigning a var t- discworld? really :P
00:02:57 * oerjan gets a http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html vibe
00:03:53 <oerjan> (translation: you're not giving any information that could actually tell me why you are failing)
00:04:47 <shachaf> But you're a mind-reader, aren't you?
00:05:21 <oerjan> more like mind-flayer. BRAINS.
00:06:41 <moon_> is there a good way to use sed to replace | with (space)? it doesnt wana
00:07:28 * oerjan mourns the probable death of Mr. Izquxxisquid
00:07:40 <moon_> infact, is ther a good way to replace | with (space) in th first plac?
00:09:12 <ais523> probably with a g at the end? unless you only want to replace one | per line
00:09:36 <oerjan> well he didn't specify so i left it out.
00:10:00 <oerjan> (exercise for the reader etc. etc.)
00:10:14 <moon_> now i jst need to seperate each number into the approprite variables
00:10:50 <moon_> and im lost again xD
00:10:56 <moon_> i am terrible with bash
00:12:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:12:36 -!- ais523 has joined.
00:13:20 <moon_> newer versions of bash support arrays, i wonder if hackego does
00:13:57 <HackEgo> GNU bash, version 4.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> \ \ This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
00:14:33 <moon_> `` num[10]={ zero one two}
00:14:47 <moon_> `` num[10]={ zero one two }
00:15:05 <moon_> hackegolagged up again >_>
00:15:31 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: zero: command not found
00:16:10 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: zero: command not found
00:16:35 <HackEgo> 1/3:117) <Gregor> <badgood> GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! \ 362) <oerjan> as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw <zzo38> quintopia: I am at Canada. \ 984) <kmc> hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too <kmc> he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on
00:16:39 <HackEgo> 2/3:tubas <Fiora> oh! he killed hitler <kmc> oh yeah, there we go <kmc> thanks Fiora <Bike> he also killed the guy who killed hitler \ 558) <CakeProphet> l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt \ 333) <monqy> Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser <Sgeo> monqy, how hard could it be
00:17:16 <oerjan> `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n .123456789; done
00:17:18 <HackEgo> .123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456
00:17:34 <shachaf> is there some hidden charm to 558
00:18:12 <oerjan> hm as i suspected, the 350 includes the zwsp
00:18:23 <oerjan> `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n 0123456789; done
00:18:24 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
00:18:42 <Elronnd> you can do that in fewer keystrokes
00:18:43 <shachaf> Good thing I went with 330.
00:18:45 <oerjan> `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n '<'123456789; done
00:18:48 <HackEgo> <123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456
00:18:56 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d-3456789" i; done
00:18:57 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i:
00:18:58 <Elronnd> `` for i in {1..40}; do echo -n 0123456789; done
00:19:00 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
00:19:03 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d-3456789" $i; done
00:19:04 <HackEgo> 01-345678902-345678903-345678904-345678905-345678906-345678907-345678908-345678909-345678910-345678911-345678912-345678913-345678914-345678915-345678916-345678917-345678918-345678919-345678920-345678921-345678922-345678923-345678924-345678925-345678926-345678927-345678928-345678929-345678930-345678931-345678932-345678933-345678934-345678935-3456789
00:19:18 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d>345678<" $i; done
00:19:19 <oerjan> it's like you think i'm golfing or something.
00:19:31 <Elronnd> what are you trying to golf?
00:19:39 <shachaf> No one is golfing anything except for you.
00:19:57 <HackEgo> 01>345678<02>345678<03>345678<04>345678<05>345678<06>345678<07>345678<08>345678<09>345678<10>345678<11>345678<12>345678<13>345678<14>345678<15>345678<16>345678<17>345678<18>345678<19>345678<20>345678<21>345678<22>345678<23>345678<24>345678<25>345678<26>345678<27>345678<28>345678<29>345678<30>345678<31>345678<32>345678<33>345678<34>345678<35>345678<
00:19:58 <HackEgo> tr: missing operand \ Try `tr --help' for more information.
00:19:59 <oerjan> Elronnd: i'm trying to determine HackEgo's output cutoff rules
00:20:08 <Elronnd> using shell ranges is probably more optimized, too
00:20:42 <moon_> is there a good way to get a random number that is 1 through 10?
00:21:15 <moon_> oh, kk. im a bash idiot
00:21:25 <Elronnd> `` for i in {1..1500}; do printf $i; done
00:21:26 <HackEgo> 12345678910111111111213141516171819202122222222232425262728293031323333333435363738394041424344444444454647484950515253545555556575859606162636465666666667686970717273747576777778798081828384858687888990919293949596979899100101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139140141142
00:21:29 <ais523> Elronnd: that produces a random number in the range 1 to 10?
00:21:43 <Elronnd> ais523: random, the unix command
00:23:22 <HackEgo> *poof* <CakeProphet> l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt
00:23:27 -!- iTitou has left.
00:23:37 <shachaf> elliott would probably revert that but I don't understand the significance.
00:23:45 <oerjan> Elronnd: i already solved the problem, it's more subtle than that, and your output is not very good at giving the information anyway hth
00:23:59 <shachaf> `` hog quotes | grep lerrelrre
00:24:20 <shachaf> I guess it's a nitia quote.
00:24:40 <HackEgo> 1/3:1255) <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It's sort of like the principal, as far as I know. <hppavilion[1]> Except It only prints "<N> BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL!" Counting down from 99 to 0. With no line breaks. \ 872) <Taneb> That's the problem with Tumblr <Taneb> All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people \ 726) <calamari> the
00:24:43 <HackEgo> 2/3:re was a time when I liked wearing a tie too.. I was a mormon. not claiming one has to be a religious nutcase to wear a tie, of course \ 505) <fungot> elliott: mr president, commissioner, i fully accept that description when it comes to human rights. yes, with an average fat content of chocolate, and we are using double standard
00:24:46 <HackEgo> 3/3:s! we all know that under present legislation and also in relation to standardization bodies. if i do not want. \ 940) <doesthiswork> a comathmatician is a device for turning cotheorems into ffee \
00:25:06 <moon_> i just need to split up a string by |'s now
00:25:12 <moon_> then i can write the main mechanics
00:25:22 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't feel `spam output counts as the 5 quote process but then i don't understand 558 either (something involving race conditions?)
00:25:36 <HackEgo> for i in {1..5}; do quote; done | sport
00:26:07 <oerjan> shachaf: because the output is so noisy that i don't bother to read it.
00:26:28 <shachaf> Well, it's less noisy than `quote`quote`quote`quote`quote.
00:26:33 <shachaf> At least in terms of vertical space.
00:26:55 <shachaf> I guess `5 could use spore instead of sport, but then you don't save any lines.
00:27:59 <HackEgo> *poof* <doesthiswork> a comathmatician is a device for turning cotheorems into ffee
00:28:14 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe 1255 would've been better.
00:28:19 -!- shachaf has left.
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00:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: I think you're the first person to show up on #esoteric since I joined who has really stuck around
00:38:55 <oerjan> how can i commend shachaf on his `? predictate definition when he's not here :(
00:39:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ccommend: not found
00:39:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: commend: not found
00:39:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Can HackEgo commands detect who invoked them?
00:40:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we haven't found a way, alas
00:40:02 <hppavilion[1]> (I have developed a habit of hitting <tab> in the middle of words to expand them, forgetting that they aren't names and thus could not possibly be tab-completed)
00:40:20 <oerjan> it seems the information just isn't in the sandbox.
00:40:37 <moon_> also, installed openbsd on a subsystem
00:40:44 <oerjan> `` ps aux | grep oerjan
00:40:46 <HackEgo> 50000 288 11.0 0.2 4180 620 ? S 23:40 0:00 sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' '`' 'ps aux | grep oerjan' | cat \ 5000 291 32.0 0.6 19140 1600 ?
00:41:00 <moon_> but it keeps running out of space just to unpack ports.tar.gz on a 8 gb disk
00:41:01 <oerjan> `` printenv | grep oerjan
00:41:07 <moon_> ports is only 40-50mb
00:42:33 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access proc: No such file or directory
00:42:36 <HackEgo> 1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 293 \ 294 \ 295 \ 296 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms
00:43:00 <oerjan> `` grep oerjan | /proc/mem
00:43:31 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /proc/mem: No such file or directory
00:43:39 <oerjan> `` grep oerjan /proc/mem
00:43:40 <HackEgo> grep: /proc/mem: No such file or directory
00:44:01 <moon_> accessing dev/mem is prohibited i beleive
00:44:08 <HackEgo> /proc/iomem \ /proc/meminfo
00:44:43 <HackEgo> cat: /dev/mem: Permission denied
00:47:32 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
00:47:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: credits: not found
00:48:26 <oerjan> btw he's dropped the R.
00:48:57 <oerjan> not that he's coming here any longer.
00:49:23 <oerjan> being all snotty professory and stuff
00:49:41 <hppavilion[1]> SMBC's setup for comic searching is really quite shit
00:50:05 <oerjan> it cannot possibly be worse than Drive's hth
00:50:37 <oerjan> Drive, the scifi comic.
00:51:13 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The "random" button's target is determined serverside when the page is loaded; so if you open "random" in a new tab twice from the same page without reloading, you will get the same comic both times
00:51:53 <hppavilion[1]> And I just discovered that the "go to most recent" button is actually calculated; so if you have a page open and a new SMBC is added and you click the "most recent" button after, it will actually go to the one that was most recent when the page was loaded
00:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> The proper way to go to a random comic is to have an intermediate page that forms a redirect to a random comic; the "random" button simply links to its URL
00:54:08 <hppavilion[1]> And the proper way to go to the most recent comic is to link to the main comic page, which generally includes the most recent comic by default
00:56:51 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe we should hack `cat so when it's called on /dev/null it prints "And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
00:58:14 <moon_> like is there a way?
00:58:22 <ais523> but `cat should produce an empty output on /dev/null
00:59:34 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: because /dev/null reads as an empty file
00:59:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/output
00:59:46 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, but we'd hack `cat to special-case /dev/null
00:59:47 <ais523> cat's job is to, among other things, recreate the contents of files
01:00:11 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: then "cat | command" can act differently from "command"
01:00:12 <oerjan> it certainly _could_ break things. whether it actually will...
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01:00:25 <ais523> I can certainly imagine programs that break as a result of the identity function not being an identity
01:00:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Eh, this is #esoteric. Do we really have anything that isn't broken?
01:00:46 <oerjan> fungot: are you broken
01:00:46 <fungot> oerjan: and " current" just corresponds to the equations a k*b, b k*(a b) implies b fnord b) and 1 is slightly faster ( less slow). ( 3)
01:00:56 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, but do any programs use cat /dev/null as the identity function?
01:01:32 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: well, say we want to recreate combinatory logic in bash
01:01:42 <ais523> (there doesn't have to be a reason for this, this is #esoteric)
01:02:00 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: We'd just use the actual `cat, which would be hidden somewhere else
01:02:33 <HackEgo> bin/quote: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/echo-p:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/google:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ bin/roll: if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/null \ bin/delquote:e
01:03:12 <oerjan> `` rgrep null bin | sport
01:03:16 <HackEgo> 1/5:bin/quote: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/echo-p:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/google:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ bin/roll: if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/n
01:03:21 <HackEgo> 2/5:ull \ bin/delquote:expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1 || exit 1 \ bin/delquote:diff quotes quotes.new >/dev/null && exit 1 \ Binary file bin/luac matches \ bin/etymology:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ bin/rm-p:rm "$1"; rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ Binary file bin/jq matches \ bin/
01:03:46 <ais523> I take it that `sport outputs the first line of a multiline command, and `spam returns subsequent lines?
01:03:50 <HackEgo> 3/5:forth:exec gforth -e "$* bye" </dev/null \ bin/define:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/searchlog matches \ bin/paste:if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ bin/runc:echo -e "$@" | gcc -trigraphs -o $t -x c - 2>/dev/null && $t \ bin/pastelog: if expr "$1" + 0
01:04:09 <oerjan> ais523: actually it's not quite line-based (yet, anyway)
01:04:24 <HackEgo> 4/5:>/dev/null 2>&1; then \ Binary file bin/lua matches \ Binary file bin/tclkit matches \ bin/quotes: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/translatefromto: --data-urlencode langpair="$FROM"'|'"$TO" 2> /dev/null | \ bin/ls:if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)"
01:04:34 <HackEgo> 5/5:; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi \ Binary file bin/units matches \
01:04:36 <ais523> oerjan: first output line
01:04:58 <oerjan> well i see no obvious uses of cat /dev/null, although who knows what lynx does internally...
01:05:29 <oerjan> (mind you the web proxy is probably not working anyway
01:05:45 <ais523> if we changed that to cat | gforth itd break
01:09:04 <oerjan> ais523: i don't think HackEgo's stdin is /dev/null btw, which i however consider a bug
01:09:18 <oerjan> (it's the reason for some occasional long timeouts)
01:09:21 <ais523> `` ls -l /proc/self/fd
01:09:23 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lr-x------ 1 50000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 0 -> /tty1 \ l-wx------ 1 5000000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 1 -> pipe:[257] \ l-wx------ 1 500000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 2 -> /tty1 \ lr-x------ 1 5000000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 3 -> /console \ l-wx------ 1 5000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 4 -> /console \ lr-x------ 1 5000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:
01:09:50 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:09:53 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnoooooodl
01:10:39 <ais523> there are some strange options there, and that pipe made me suspicious
01:10:50 <ais523> also what's up with FDs 3 and 4?
01:10:52 <oerjan> ais523: anyway that wouldn't break if the modified cat only looked at the argument line
01:11:01 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: echo: write error: Bad file descriptor
01:11:33 <ais523> oerjan: surely you'd want cat /dev/null to work the same way as cat </dev/null ?
01:12:19 <oerjan> i'm not saying this is a good idea, i'm just saying it could be done not to break things much worse than they already are.
01:12:54 <oerjan> also, you're right to be suspicious hth
01:17:52 <moon_> my god openbsd's ports is big.
01:18:01 <moon_> it ate up all the space in the usr dir
01:18:22 <moon_> and it has taken several minutes to move to main storage
01:19:37 <moon_> im going to make a larger disk next time >_>
01:19:45 <moon_> 32 gb instead of 8
01:22:08 <moon_> ill soon be talking to you all over openbsd, bbl
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01:28:26 <moon_> i lied, everything is stalling in openbsd >_>
01:28:32 <moon_> the download is taking too long
01:30:05 <moon_> 3-4 mb downloads are not ment to take 4 minutes internet ._
01:33:57 <moon_> lol the freebsd make 'checks wether the enviornment is sane'
01:34:05 <moon_> it would fail here.
01:34:45 <ais523> moon_: that check has succeeded even in cases where it /really/ shouldn't (e.g. C-INTERCAL running on gcc-bf)
01:35:23 <moon_> the hexchat irc client will be done in no time :P
01:36:24 <moon_> its spamming my terminal
01:50:54 <moon_> http://www.haneke.net/
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01:59:26 <oerjan> i think you catted it instead tdnh
02:00:23 <shachaf> `mk canary//cat: canary: No such file or directory
02:00:49 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
02:00:59 <HackEgo> cat: yranac: No such file or directory
02:00:59 <moon_> that was similar to the joke in output
02:01:11 <ais523> I approve of this canary
02:01:21 <moon_> output contained: 'No output.'
02:01:56 <shachaf> But making files in /hackenv is frowned upon.
02:02:23 <moon_> anways, did you all look at this: http://www.haneke.net/
02:05:55 <oerjan> moon_: yes, and i have the earworm to prove it hth
02:06:27 <moon_> the site has no sound
02:06:38 <oerjan> moon_: huh? it does for me.
02:07:25 <oerjan> i'm not sure if it's meant to be something more than a background animation...
02:07:42 <oerjan> a few test clicks did nothing, anyway
02:08:19 <moon_> but it inspired another random esolang :P
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02:09:00 <moon_> nvm someone beat me to something similart
02:09:08 <moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Marbelous
02:09:13 <oerjan> moon_: in that case, have you seen Rube?
02:10:22 <moon_> but im gonna go for a single char lang instead, so i might just do it.
02:10:57 <moon_> first, interpreter for a usable language
02:11:33 <oerjan> Rube is a single char lang, although Rubicon uses graphics.
02:13:06 <moon_> wait why did i say that if i have seen it? xD
02:17:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Destructible watermelon * New user account
02:18:53 <shachaf> "destructible" is usually implied.
02:18:54 <ais523> oerjan: rubicon's a single char lang internally
02:18:58 <ais523> you could just say it's using a particularly pretty font
02:20:44 <moon_> is there a good way to map a string to a grid?
02:20:55 <moon_> aka 1d array to 2d array?
02:21:04 <moon_> wait dont answer that.
02:21:36 <moon_> nvm do answer it :P
02:24:10 <Elronnd> do you want [1,2,3,4,5,6] to look like [ [1,2], [3,4], [5,6] ]?
02:24:14 <moon_> i want to map a 1 dimensional array to a 2 dimensional array in C++
02:24:18 <ais523> moon_: replace newlines with "go to the next line"
02:24:47 <Elronnd> moon_: what do you mean "map" a 1 dimensional array?
02:25:05 <moon_> apply it to a 2 dimensional array, make it 2d
02:25:15 <Elronnd> can you give me an example?
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02:25:34 * oerjan senses a certain lack of precision
02:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> Why is theft a crime, but cotheft isn't a cocrime?
02:25:58 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: cocrime is a cotheft, duh
02:26:22 <moon_> http://pastebin.com/MH4QRFGK
02:26:22 <hppavilion[1]> Theft, of course, being the decrease of another person's economic value or the exchange of goods without their consent, and cotheft being increasing the value
02:26:27 <moon_> there is your example
02:26:41 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, I have nfc what cocrime is, so maybe it is
02:27:18 <oerjan> moon_: what do you do if the length of the string is prime twh
02:27:20 <Elronnd> moon_: what if you have 1345
02:27:36 <moon_> then it would wrap around
02:27:47 <moon_> wrapped with nulls
02:28:25 <moon_> no you would have 12 34 5NULL
02:28:41 <moon_> it depends on how it is written
02:29:28 <Elronnd> moon_: so you want to split an array into an array of arrays of 2 chars each
02:29:40 <moon_> an array into a square array
02:30:08 <moon_> it is rectangulare
02:30:29 <Elronnd> also, although I don't have any experience with C/C++, wouldn't you get a type error if you tried to put a NULL in an array of int?
02:30:34 <moon_> but 12NULL 34 5, 12 34NULL 5 are examples
02:30:59 <moon_> this is an array of chars, the char there would be the 2d language's nop
02:31:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: why do you expect me to know
02:31:41 <moon_> C supports 2d arrays
02:31:58 <Elronnd> how is the rectangle size decided?
02:32:03 <moon_> i.e char 2darray[100][100]
02:32:14 <Elronnd> say you had a string 12 chars long
02:32:15 <moon_> thats what i need a way to DO
02:32:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well, you asked what happens if the length of the string is prime, so I made a guess that you understood enough to know that would be a problem
02:32:34 <hppavilion[1]> I just realized something interesting about english
02:32:48 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: I imagine that if n were prime, the 2D array would be 1xn
02:33:01 <hppavilion[1]> But which when applied to the same noun mean different things
02:33:27 <moon_> ok to avoid this problem im gonna use a fixed array
02:33:38 <Elronnd> i'm very bored and extremely tired
02:33:42 <hppavilion[1]> And they both describe that another adjective is exaggerated
02:33:44 <Elronnd> i'm very bored and extremely excited
02:33:53 <moon_> how would i apply a strin up to 10000 chars long to a 100x100 array? :P
02:34:14 <hppavilion[1]> And if you say something is "very big or something is "extremely big", they mean the same thing
02:34:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47127&oldid=46650 * Destructible watermelon * (+453) /* Looks Like */
02:34:58 <hppavilion[1]> But if you say one thing is "very big" and another thing is "extremely big", then it stands to reason that the second thing is bigger than the first
02:35:12 <hppavilion[1]> Even though "very" and "extremely" mean the same thing
02:35:13 <Elronnd> for (i=0;i==length_of_str;i++) {well
02:35:26 <Elronnd> they express different magnitudes
02:35:29 <Elronnd> but they can still be considered synonyms
02:35:59 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: When only one is used, they express roughly the same range of magnitudes
02:36:19 <hppavilion[1]> (This was inspired, of all things, by the Goldbach Conjectures)
02:36:22 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, i just understood enough to think of an example where moon_'s statement of the problem was underspecified.
02:36:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But what was the problem in the first place?
02:36:53 <Elronnd> moon_: I'm guessing that you want the sides of the rectangle to be as close as possible to each other?
02:37:18 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: they're adverbs, not adjectives hth
02:37:44 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: I calculated the odds of everybody on earth sneezing at the same time
02:38:18 <hppavilion[1]> (or something; I don't remember what the math means precisely)
02:38:29 <hppavilion[1]> It's 5.2345140545750255095729057789677877107902000024178184273063118452216398192830384321642665672586107071499738573951676069816850719055839882135729586168861337085743787119721991366279460690571913008155670283808735608620… × 10^-37943769263
02:39:07 <oerjan> does C guarantee that arrays of arrays are unpadded? in that case it should be easy to cheat.
02:39:09 <moon_> im takeing that to bay12 quotes thread :P
02:39:40 <moon_> i have a programming chalange for you all, by the way
02:39:46 <Elronnd> oerjan: it's trivial to pad them, if not
02:39:51 <moon_> make a language that uses objects out of http://www.haneke.net/ for its operands
02:40:03 <moon_> and then makea interpreter
02:40:16 <moon_> you dont need all of the objects
02:41:00 <moon_> giant gif marble machine
02:42:03 <oerjan> Elronnd: i mean that you might just cast the array to a string, then copy into it
02:42:46 <oerjan> (add "pointer to" as needed)
02:43:50 <moon_> actually, memory operations would work, C/C++ store 2d arrays in a 1d format still
02:44:09 <oerjan> moon_: well i was asking whether that is guaranteed.
02:44:40 <oerjan> if not, you can always use for loops.
02:45:07 <oerjan> it seems to me that deciding the number of rows is the hardest part :)
02:45:27 <oerjan> (ideally needs a square root)
02:46:39 <moon_> so elronnd, you take it?
02:47:20 <Elronnd> moon_: here's my (very bad) pseudocode http://lpaste.net/165400
02:47:59 <moon_> im saying its very 'long' which is synonomus with big in most ways
02:48:29 <moon_> i ment in characters of text
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02:54:18 <moon_> whats the best language for code golfing?
02:55:49 <Elronnd> bash+coreutils is not that bad
02:55:52 <moon_> in some cases, yes
02:56:08 <moon_> but very rarely is brainfuck a good golfer
02:56:34 <zzo38> Best language for code golfing can depend what program, is one thing. But there is also other kind of details.
02:56:48 <moon_> but best in general is what i want lol
02:57:04 <Elronnd> is that there is no one best tool
02:57:12 <Elronnd> and you choose the one that fits the task
02:58:52 <Elronnd> someone give me something to golf
02:59:03 <lambdabot> [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
02:59:04 <lambdabot> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
02:59:24 <shachaf> > [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
02:59:27 <lambdabot> "271828182845904523536028747135266249775724709369995957496696762772407663035...
02:59:35 <shachaf> > (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
02:59:38 <lambdabot> "314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628...
02:59:59 <Elronnd> I don't know enough to write a PRNG regularly
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03:00:15 <moon_> golf a program that prints my username lol
03:01:38 <Elronnd> #include <stdio.h> void main(){printf("moon_");}
03:01:57 <shachaf> The first one is suboptimal and the second one is invalid.
03:02:06 <Elronnd> replace stdio.h with iostream for C++
03:02:22 <shachaf> @where+ anagol http://golf.shinh.org/
03:02:34 <shachaf> There you go. All the golfing you could ever want.
03:02:37 <moon_> nope, ?,moon_ is the one
03:02:46 <moon_> thats in Bantas by the way
03:03:11 <Elronnd> shachaf: shachaf would you rather __import__("sys").stdout.write("moon_") ?
03:12:29 <moon_> Elronnd, here, try golfing this: turn a 1d array into a 5d array http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Turn+a+1d+array+into+a+5d+array
03:13:01 <moon_> oerjan, bantas has the shortest so far: ?,moon_
03:13:07 <moon_> (bantas being a esolang)
03:13:32 <oerjan> very well, i'll do it in ///:
03:13:53 <moon_> no instaquine languages
03:14:11 <moon_> anything that is not a slash is printed in ///
03:14:24 <Elronnd> //moon_/ will also print moon_, IIRC
03:18:28 <shachaf> oerjan: that doesn't look like it's in FlooP at all hth
03:18:53 <shachaf> oerjan: what's your review of ghc 8 twh
03:20:13 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Im.
03:20:21 -!- Im has changed nick to Elronnd.
03:21:37 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Youre.
03:21:47 -!- Youre has changed nick to Elronnd.
03:22:49 <moon_> (internet relay programming)
03:23:17 <oerjan> unless it's ##irp. i've forgotten.
03:23:26 <moon_> its #irp, but its almost dead
03:23:35 <oerjan> shachaf: could use a little more salt hth
03:23:49 -!- moon_ has changed nick to worst.
03:23:52 -!- worst has changed nick to moon_.
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03:24:15 <moon_> Hello, and welcome!
03:24:30 <moon_> I hope you enjoy the unix bot, hackego (=
03:24:31 <oerjan> tip: we created it because we were sick of people doing irp in #esoteric hth
03:24:42 <moon_> `rwelcome destructible
03:24:56 <oerjan> admittedly that may have been after it got reddited.
03:25:07 <HackEgo> destructible: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:25:17 <moon_> no, rainbow welcome )=
03:25:20 <oerjan> wait, `rwelcome exists?
03:25:39 <oerjan> `` diff bin/r{,w}elcome
03:25:56 <HackEgo> cat: rwelcome: No such file or directory
03:26:04 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords
03:26:13 <moon_> it just feeds welcome to rainwords
03:26:19 <HackEgo> 1/1:lrwxrwxrwx 1 500000 0 8 Dec 9 04:12 bin/relcome -> rwelcome \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000000 0 35 Dec 9 04:12 bin/rwelcome \
03:26:37 <Elronnd> `` echo "nobody knows everything" | rainwords
03:27:36 <moon_> Destructable, hackego is real linux, and it is normal to play around with him. or just chat lol
03:27:42 <moon_> we dont need more afkers
03:27:57 <moon_> there are at least 100
03:28:01 <shachaf> The fact that you do it doesn't mean that it's normal.
03:28:19 * oerjan ties shachaf to the lawn chair
03:28:40 <shachaf> Please don't encourage other people to act as annoyingly as you do.
03:28:50 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: why would you be browsing twitter anyway?
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03:29:10 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Because I figured he might have funny tweets?
03:29:28 <moon_> its no-where near as fun as surfing pastebin for 'roblox cheats' just to laugh at the scams
03:29:56 <moon_> or surfing it for anything else in that matter
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03:32:16 <moon_> bad internet iguess
03:33:18 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, I suppose it's likely the one who visits us was just a copyleopard
03:37:10 <HackEgo> <coppro> mkx bin/5quote//quote;quote;quote;quote;quote;
03:38:28 <HackEgo> <oerjan> mkx bin/mkcmd//chmod +x "$1" && echo "$1" \ <Moon__-> ` mv mkcmd bin/mkcmd
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03:39:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47128&oldid=47123 * Oerjan * (+300) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Jacek Michalak|Jacek Michalak]] ([[User talk:Jacek Michalak|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Oerjan|Oerjan]]
03:40:34 <shachaf> `le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1
03:40:46 <Sgeo> At least Erlang/Elixir has a mutability model. I'm not sure if I actually like it though.
03:40:54 <shachaf> `sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./
03:41:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
03:41:10 -!- moon_ has joined.
03:41:17 <shachaf> Were there other useful shaventions?
03:43:06 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i have no idea why you think i would like that kind of twitter accounts.
03:44:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Specifically, I had no opinion on whether or not you'd approve of the account's content; I only checked what the account was about after posting it
03:45:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ziim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47129&oldid=47124 * Oerjan * (-42) /* Interpreter */ fix link
03:46:20 <HackEgo> Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something.
03:46:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" |
03:47:48 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: bat: command not found
03:47:53 <HackEgo> cat: bin/rnooooooodl: No such file or directory
03:48:25 <shachaf> oerjan: we've got another one hth
03:49:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[YABALL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47130&oldid=47125 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template
03:49:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" |
03:49:40 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoooodl
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03:52:05 <oerjan> *sigh* wayback _really_ should get better at ignoring robots.txt from domain squatters
03:52:36 <Elronnd> what are you trying to access?
03:52:47 <Elronnd> wayback is also a little bit buggy
03:53:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47131&oldid=47128 * Oerjan * (+26) /* External resources */ Stupid domain squatters, and also stupid wayback
03:54:31 <Elronnd> oerjan: the fact that it allows googlebot
03:54:32 <hppavilion[1]> Is it... former domain squatters put a robots.txt that bans everything, then even after the domain is obtained by proper domain users, Wayback doesn't update the robots.txt data so never saves the page?
03:54:41 <Elronnd> means that it might be in google cach
03:55:48 <hppavilion[1]> Well, I'm going to go sacrifice a human to the great god F'ngaw-t
03:57:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: apparently Hagbard Celine is a fictional character hth
03:57:37 <Elronnd> oerjan: I got a working archive for you
03:57:52 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: we've got another one hth <-- yay!
03:59:54 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content
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04:00:28 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1]: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content
04:01:19 <oerjan> Elronnd: it's not in google cache because i'm looking for an _old_ version of the page.
04:01:37 <Elronnd> oerjan: what about the archive.is one
04:01:47 <Elronnd> also, it looks like it's not in google cache
04:03:18 -!- Destructible has joined.
04:03:21 <Elronnd> the other page wasn't archived, though
04:03:53 <oerjan> Elronnd: well the _real_ page went offline a decade ago, so of course google hasn't kept it.
04:04:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47132&oldid=47131 * Elronnd * (-58) fix link
04:04:41 <Elronnd> I think may be dead forever
04:05:14 <oerjan> depends. it will probably come back if the site robots.txt ever gets turned into something friendly.
04:05:24 <oerjan> because wayback _has_ it.
04:05:55 <oerjan> and also if wayback actually _implemented_ the tracking of domain changes i recall they once mentioned they wanted to do.
04:07:13 <Destructible> I came up with an idea for an esoteric language, but I'm not sure whether I should make a page for it.
04:09:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47133&oldid=47132 * Oerjan * (+43) /* External resources */ add archive link
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04:10:00 <oerjan> Destructible: we're pretty inclusive.
04:10:19 <oerjan> mind you, if it's a brainfuck derivative, you might think twice.
04:10:32 <shachaf> oerjan: in my experience authors of bf derivatives tend not to think twice hth
04:10:56 <Destructible> to some degree, it is a bit like brainfuck, but it's not a language that directly emulates brainfuck
04:11:10 <Destructible> it has a tape for memory, and moves up and down the tape
04:12:23 <oerjan> if it has more than half of the actual bf commands, even renamed, then you're pretty deep in hth
04:12:55 <Destructible> the move commands alter the numbers beneath it
04:13:29 <Destructible> and it can not change any if it tries to move back to the original position
04:13:59 <Destructible> how it changes any at all, is it pushes the tile it is on to a stack (not it's value, the position)
04:15:10 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
04:15:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47134&oldid=47133 * Oerjan * (+4) /* External resources */ italics
04:15:33 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
04:17:07 <Destructible> I'm still confused about what hth actually means. Do you just append it to the end of your sentences for fun hth
04:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[COBOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47135&oldid=47122 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template and newer capture
04:18:56 <oerjan> hth can only be learned by osmosis, or possibly by someone blabbering.
04:20:24 <oerjan> `le/rn hambiguitous/We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
04:21:09 <HackEgo> We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
04:22:08 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:22:40 <oerjan> but first, you have to get into the right spirit.
04:23:05 <shachaf> `? ? °°°°°° is a very bad misspelling of
04:23:07 <HackEgo> ? °°°°°° is a very bad misspelling of? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:23:47 <oerjan> `? misspellings of croissant
04:23:49 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:24:13 <Destructible> `le/rn love/Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more
04:24:54 <oerjan> shachaf: i was getting to that part
04:25:24 <shachaf> the more he bleeds, the more he lives / he never forgets and he never forgives
04:25:32 <HackEgo> floccinaucinihilipilification? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:25:39 <oerjan> shachaf: is that one of those awkward riddles
04:26:14 <shachaf> https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/stephen-sondheim/the-ballad-of-sweeney-todd-26 hth
04:26:29 <oerjan> `? supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
04:26:30 <HackEgo> supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:26:43 <oerjan> i thought we had that one.
04:27:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/supercalifragilisticexponential growth
04:27:08 <shachaf> `? supercalifragilisticexponential growth
04:27:09 <HackEgo> Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust.
04:27:25 <oerjan> shachaf: `wisdom takes ... hm is it a glob or a regex
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04:27:29 <Destructible> le/rn floccinaucinihilipilification/n. The act or habit of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of having no value or being worthless.
04:27:36 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
04:27:53 <oerjan> Destructible: um we prefer having the key in the result.
04:28:09 <shachaf> Well, I'd prefer not having that wisdom entry at all.
04:28:16 <shachaf> It's the same as what you'd find in any dictionary.
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04:28:29 <oerjan> `learn floccinaucinihilipilification n. The act or habit
04:28:29 <oerjan> of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of
04:28:29 <oerjan> having no value or being worthless.
04:28:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'floccinaucinihilipilification': floccinaucinihilipilification n. The act or habit
04:28:49 <oerjan> why can't irssi line joining be reliable.
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04:28:57 <shachaf> `forget floccinaucinihilipilification
04:29:25 <shachaf> The Ballad of Sweeney Todd is great.
04:29:53 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
04:29:54 <shachaf> freely flows the blood of those who moralize
04:30:11 <shachaf> oerjan: you implemented it hth
04:30:20 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
04:32:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't see what that has to do with remembering its format
04:33:03 <shachaf> Well, think to yourself: Would you have bothered implementing regex matching?
04:33:15 <oerjan> if it had been easier, yes.
04:33:35 <oerjan> and i'd thought of how to do it first.
04:34:11 <shachaf> Wait, now I can't remember whether you or I implemented this.
04:34:17 <HackEgo> noooodl//noooooooooooooooooooooooodl is the correct spelling
04:34:21 <shachaf> `` hogue bin/wisdom | sport
04:34:28 <HackEgo> 1/4:<shachaf> ` sed -i \'s#/"#//"#\' bin/wisdom \ <oerjan> mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooooodl; cat "$F" | rnooooodl \ <oerjan> mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*""$(echo "$1" | lowercase)""*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" |
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04:42:56 <oerjan> i don't think it applies rnooodl on input, shachaf
04:43:04 <oerjan> . o O ( at least i hope so )
04:43:18 <shachaf> It tries to apply the inverse on input.
04:43:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
04:43:32 <shachaf> But I was hoping it applies it on output before printing that ridiculous Unicode face.
04:44:08 <shachaf> lynn: have you considered moving to new england
04:44:15 <shachaf> lynn: and changing your name to yankee noodl
04:44:20 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\?: No such file or directory
04:44:54 <Elronnd> oerjan: I was the first to
04:45:05 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnoooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" |
04:45:07 <shachaf> lynn: In fact, move to Connecticut.
04:45:26 <Elronnd> you hang around this channel too?
04:45:33 <oerjan> Elronnd: i didn't use `` so it doesn't apply
04:46:16 <Elronnd> that's like saying "I went to https://youtu.be/something instead of https://youtube.com/watch?v=something, so I watched a different video"
04:46:36 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
04:46:52 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoo
04:47:12 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \
04:47:26 <HackEgo> cat: bin//: Is a directory
04:47:36 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\: No such file or directory
04:48:19 <shachaf> `` echo ooodles of nooodls
04:48:20 <HackEgo> ooooooooodles of nooooooooodls
04:48:36 <oerjan> `echo ooodles of nooodls
04:49:15 <oerjan> `run echo ooodles of nooodls
04:49:16 -!- navigaid has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
04:49:36 <oerjan> `` echo -e '\e[33mfoo'
04:49:55 <Elronnd> ``echo 'this has\x034colour'
04:49:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found
04:50:02 <Elronnd> `` echo 'this has\x034colour'
04:50:08 <Elronnd> `` echo -e 'this has\x034colour'
04:50:33 <oerjan> i don't think alias is going to work
04:50:45 <oerjan> there is no persistent shell session
04:50:58 <Elronnd> `` echo 'alias echo="echo -e"' > ~/.bashrc
04:51:07 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: alias: echo: not found
04:51:10 <oerjan> oh, and /tmp isn't persistent either
04:51:27 <Elronnd> `` echo 'alias echo="echo -e"' >> /etc/bashrc
04:51:28 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /etc/bashrc: Permission denied
04:51:39 <HackEgo> cat: /etc/bashrc: No such file or directory
04:52:00 <oerjan> i don't think you should change echo, anyway.
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04:52:25 <oerjan> there are already scripts depending on it
04:53:21 <oerjan> actually, echo is a bash builtin isn't it, so you cannot really make it behave differently that way.
04:54:08 <shachaf> Every time you run a command, HackEgo boots up a virtual machine and runs your code in it.
04:54:52 <oerjan> i guess not having $HOME be in the repository part is a security feature.
04:58:35 <shachaf> I guess the VM doesn't literally pull itself up by its own bootstraps.
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05:49:09 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I
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07:42:13 <Vorpal> <Elronnd> shachaf: *boots* up a VM? <-- iirc, yes, pretty much. But more of a container kind of. It used User Mode Linux last I checked, which was a couple of years ago
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07:42:26 <Vorpal> So it is not like starting vmware
07:43:29 <HackEgo> Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea.
07:43:58 <shachaf> Well, I agree that I have no idea.
07:44:35 <HackEgo> <oerjan> revert \ <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ <shachaf> revert 0 \ <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ Initial import.
07:45:19 <shachaf> Vorpal: Why does it say you're boring?
07:45:47 <myname> because he's not vorpal kick'asso maybe
07:45:55 <lambdabot> oerjan said 3h 45m 27s ago: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content
07:46:13 <oerjan> `learn Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
07:46:22 <HackEgo> Relearned 'vorpal': Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
07:46:30 <shachaf> You should talk about it in #trains.
07:47:15 <shachaf> i can neither confirm nor deny the existence of #trains
07:47:42 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: well the original intention was probably to allow someone to hide files that were exposed by accident.
07:47:53 <Vorpal> <shachaf> Vorpal: Why does it say you're boring? <-- Ask ehird?
07:48:00 <oerjan> but then there was the original complication that owners of sites change.
07:48:19 <shachaf> ehird hasn't been here for a long time.
07:48:24 <shachaf> At least by a nick that I recognize.
07:48:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's kind of a stupid rule though. Squatters fucking things up is MUCH more likely than accidentally exposing a file that is THAT dangerous but completely unprotected otherwise
07:48:42 <Vorpal> oerjan: well yes, my day to day job is boring unless you find hard real time cool (which I do)
07:49:19 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, don't /all/ programmers mostly work on boring machines?
07:49:27 <Vorpal> shachaf: I write control software for really big mining machines. Autonomous ones. Drills holes that you put explosives in (for open pit mines)
07:49:51 <shachaf> Oh, not tunnel boring machines?
07:50:14 <oerjan> drilling is boring hth
07:50:16 <Vorpal> The largest model weighs 200 metric tons.
07:50:34 <Vorpal> Top speed of 5 km/h. 22 meters long, 30 meter high tower
07:50:42 <myname> bagger 288 bagger bagger 288
07:50:48 <shachaf> See, those are the kinds of facts that I bet #trains would enjoy.
07:51:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ehird's relation to hagb4rd is that he was probably the first to ban him hth
07:51:43 <myname> https://youtu.be/azEvfD4C6ow
07:51:55 <Vorpal> shachaf: these appear to be the electric version (see the massive cable?): http://www.coaleducation.org/technology/Surface/images/PV351-2.jpg
07:52:27 <Vorpal> That is 1.5 kV 3-phase, and I forget how many amps. But quite a few
07:53:32 <Vorpal> shachaf: also what is #trains about?
07:53:42 <Vorpal> but why did you mention it now?
07:54:16 <shachaf> It's about trains but I think they've talked about boring machines before.
07:55:13 <Vorpal> I find trains pretty boring
07:56:20 <Vorpal> oh yeah, I played OpenTTD, those were fun to mess with
07:56:48 <Vorpal> btw, wasn't it fizzie that proved OpenTTD to be turing complete?
07:56:55 <Vorpal> or at least universal logic
07:57:26 <shachaf> http://zem.fi/2005-10-21-ttd-logic ?
07:58:12 <shachaf> Actually I have no idea, I never played OpenTTD.
07:58:16 <shachaf> I did play Factorio, though.
07:59:30 <Vorpal> ooh, I haven't. It looks interesting though
07:59:50 <myname> i'd love factorio for android
08:00:08 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'd love an android that could play factorio
08:00:22 <Vorpal> myname: would the interface work though? it seems you need to click a lot of small things. Also the performance once the factory gets massive?
08:01:01 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: eh I think it might work on a recent high end tablet. On a phone the interface would suck though
08:01:05 <shachaf> Oh, well, you wouldn't want to run the same read-only command twice. That would be botspam.
08:02:14 <hppavilion[1]> `learn h4gb4rd is a Scandinavian criminal currently serving tau consecutive life sentences at a yottamax prison buried beneath 4chan.
08:02:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'h4gb4rd': h4gb4rd is a Scandinavian criminal currently serving tau consecutive life sentences at a yottamax prison buried beneath 4chan.
08:03:03 <shachaf> You should take a wisdom entry course from oerjan.
08:03:36 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
08:03:47 <shachaf> Factorio even supports multiplayer. It's great.
08:04:08 <shachaf> Because your wisdom entries would be improveed.
08:04:23 <Vorpal> my back tick key is stuck... it doesn't go down
08:05:20 <Vorpal> I'll better remove the cap and check the mechanism below. the mechanism is complicated on this laptop though iirc
08:05:54 <hppavilion[1]> Do you ever find an xkcd and think "how could explainxkcd possibly say anything about this?"
08:07:06 <Vorpal> aha, a bit of hard material under the scissor mechanism ´´´```
08:08:25 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ǹicé´: not found
08:08:26 <Vorpal> shachaf: pried the debris out with a needle, since I couldn't remove the mechanism itself due to the way it was stuck by the debris
08:08:47 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: now you made me check explainxkcd for that one
08:08:51 <shachaf> How many debris were there?
08:10:06 <Vorpal> Hm what is the singular of debris?
08:10:18 <Vorpal> I guess it is uncountable
08:10:35 <shachaf> debris floating in de breeze
08:10:45 <Vorpal> My spell checker doesn't like debri at least
08:12:37 <shachaf> oerjan: is your good twin's full name professørjan
08:12:51 <Vorpal> Hm anyone used hg-git? I don't want to learn git but I want to fork a project on github. I could fork it over to bitbucket, but then it would be harder to discover for other people looking if someone fixed this thing or not
08:13:21 <Vorpal> And the original project appears to be somewhere between maintenance mode and straight up dead
08:14:07 <shachaf> I suspect learning git is easier than figuring out hg-git
08:15:03 <\oren\> git is a mystery inside an enigma, wrapped in a horrible user interface
08:15:05 <Vorpal> shachaf: is there any good GUI for git?
08:15:22 <\oren\> there isn't even a good CLI for git
08:15:26 <Vorpal> I would say that for learning a new version control system, something like TortoiseHg is great
08:15:35 <shachaf> There's some Tcl/Tk GUI but I don't know if it's good.
08:15:38 <Vorpal> so something similar for git would be useful
08:15:53 <shachaf> Hmm, GitHub wrote a GUI for Windows, if you use Windows and GitHub.
08:16:08 <shachaf> Ah, https://git-scm.com/download/gui/linux
08:16:57 <shachaf> I just use the command line.
08:17:08 <\oren\> basically the only way to solve most problems is to copy the files you changed, redownload the repository, and then copy them back
08:17:30 <Vorpal> shachaf: linux user here
08:17:41 <shachaf> \oren\: Are you talking about GitHub's GUI?
08:18:50 <\oren\> shachaf: the one from github. I used it a lot for my video game course's final project
08:20:25 <shachaf> Just use the command line tool.
08:20:43 <shachaf> I don't know why people say that git is so complicated.
08:20:47 <\oren\> it makes it easy to create various states that are "broken" and can't be fixed without either complex command line screwery, or by doing what I just said
08:21:10 <shachaf> I mean, the commands are unintuitive sometimes, but as long as you know what state you're in and what state you want to be in, you can usually figure out what to do.
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08:21:39 <\oren\> shachaf: the issue is that there are far more states than in other VCS's
08:21:48 <shachaf> And it's almost impossible to accidentally lose data (once you've committed it) or get into a state that you can't recover from.
08:21:51 <shachaf> There's always the reflog.
08:23:00 <shachaf> \oren\: I made some pretty embarrassing git mistakes in the past.
08:23:38 <shachaf> But you just need to get a reasonable mental model of what the commit graph looks like.
08:24:00 <shachaf> I think it's pretty similar to hg but I haven't used hg very much.
08:27:01 <\oren\> in particular git could do without the entire concept of stashing
08:27:01 <shachaf> `learn The English, the English, the English are best; / I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.
08:27:42 <shachaf> I think stashing is pretty useful.
08:27:55 <shachaf> But if you don't like it you don't have to use it.
08:28:12 <\oren\> shachaf: that's not what I've experienced
08:28:27 <shachaf> Stashing? That's an entirely local thing.
08:28:35 <shachaf> Don't run "git stash" and you don't have to deal with stashes.
08:28:57 <Vorpal> <shachaf> I mean, the commands are unintuitive sometimes, but as long as you know what state you're in and what state you want to be in, you can usually figure out what to do. <-- I'm used to using hg. Used it for ages.
08:29:12 <Vorpal> From my understanding branches in git are quite different than branches in mercurial though?
08:29:38 <shachaf> Maybe. What are branches in Mercurial?
08:30:22 <\oren\> staging could be entirely done away with. it has no purpose it seems, other than to increase the number of states my working copy can be in
08:31:42 <Vorpal> each commit belongs to a branch. You can at any point create a new branch from a given commit, by specifying a new branch name in the commit. You can only push (ignoring --force) if each named branch only has one head. Otherwise you have to merge in that branch so that you only have one head.
08:32:04 <Vorpal> If you want more than one head, use a named branch
08:32:30 <shachaf> It looks like a git branch is roughly equivalent to an hg bookmark?
08:32:50 <Vorpal> Hm, I haven't used hg bookmarks. Not directly at least
08:33:07 <Vorpal> I think mq uses them internally. It is like an easily movable tag?
08:33:32 <shachaf> Does an hg commit (if there is such a thing) "belong" to a branch in some sense?
08:33:54 <shachaf> In git you just have a graph of commits, where each commit beyond the first has one or more parents.
08:34:07 <shachaf> A branch is just a file that has a commit hash in it.
08:34:20 <Vorpal> shachaf: and having multiple heads is okay and won't cause complaints when you push?
08:34:39 <Vorpal> "Bookmarks can be used as an alternative to NamedBranches for tracking multiple lines of development. Systems like Mercurial, CVS, and Subversion store their branch information as a permanent part of each commit. This is useful for future auditing of long-lived branches, as it's always possible to identify which branch a commit was introduced on. Git, by contrast, has "branches" that are not stored in h
08:34:39 <Vorpal> istory, which is useful for working with numerous short-lived feature branches, but makes future auditing impossible. Mercurial's bookmark feature is analogous to Git's branching scheme, but can also be used in conjunction with Mercurial's traditional named branches."
08:35:01 <Vorpal> shachaf: a head is a commit with no children. The tip of the history.
08:35:37 <shachaf> When you `git gc`, all the commits that aren't reachable via branches (or tags, which are effectively immutable branches) are deleted.
08:35:37 <Vorpal> You can end up with multiple heads, which you then either merge or rebase.
08:36:02 <Vorpal> so it just strips part of the history
08:36:12 <Vorpal> shachaf: you can't move a tag in git?
08:36:13 <shachaf> Well, it's not the history of anything that you care about.
08:36:39 <Vorpal> You can in hg, since the tags are just a bunch of revision IDs and names in a file .hgtags in the root of the repo
08:36:49 <Vorpal> Just append a new line overriding the old tag
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08:37:11 <shachaf> I understand what a head is, but what do you mean by multiple heads?
08:38:14 <Vorpal> shachaf: well if you have more than one commit that has no children, in the same named branch, you don't have a clear "most recent" tip in that branch. Okay?
08:38:29 <shachaf> In git a branch is just a head, I guess.
08:38:50 <Vorpal> I guess in git the gc command would get rid of it?
08:38:54 <shachaf> (Well, it might have children, but they're not visible from the branch.)
08:38:58 <Vorpal> which sounds dangerous
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08:39:31 <shachaf> A GC should never delete anything that you care about, because you can just keep a GC root referring to it.
08:39:52 <Vorpal> right. but that sounds complicated
08:40:07 <shachaf> I don't know how you'd end up in that situation, really.
08:40:07 <Vorpal> When would you end up with stuff you don't care about anyway
08:40:21 <shachaf> Well, maybe you rewrote history to squash some commits together.
08:40:36 <shachaf> Or maybe you deleted a branch. The contents of the branch are still available until you GC.
08:40:43 <Vorpal> shachaf: I assume you can't rewrite history you already pushed?
08:40:55 <Vorpal> Or delete a branch that is pushed
08:41:26 <shachaf> Well, you can do whatever you want, but you generally shouldn't push changes to a remote branch that aren't descendants of it.
08:41:42 <shachaf> You can delete a branch that you pushed. You can always recreate it by getting the remote branch.
08:41:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude.
08:41:49 <Vorpal> In hg each commit has a phase: secret, draft, public. As soon as you push (or someone pulls from you) the commit is set to public. You can force change it back to draft, but that is a faux pas that could lead to all sorts of headaches down the line.
08:42:11 <Vorpal> You can only perform history editing on draft commits. Oh and secret commits are excluded from being pushed or pulled
08:42:20 <Vorpal> otherwise secret and draft are the same
08:42:24 <Vorpal> commits default to draft
08:42:48 <shachaf> A git branch is literally implemented as a file: A branch foo is a file .git/refs/heads/foo containing a sha1 hash.
08:43:10 <shachaf> I guess there's no equivalent state to keep track of for whether a branch has been pushed or not.
08:43:12 <Vorpal> Can't say I know how hg implements all that stuff. Don't need to deal with it normally
08:43:36 <shachaf> Well, if you prefer, "branches" are just a key-value map : String -> SHA1
08:44:18 <shachaf> If you try to push something to a remote branch that isn't a descendant, you'll get an error if you don't force-push.
08:45:22 <Vorpal> still it seems that git and hg have quite different models. Resulting in very different idiomatic ways to use them
08:45:37 <shachaf> That sounds a bit more plausible now.
08:47:43 <Vorpal> shachaf: is there anything like MQ in git? It is basically a version controlled way to have local commits that you work on, and update. Possibly merging several of them, reordering and so on
08:47:59 <Vorpal> But the great thing is that you version control the "patch queue" as it is called
08:48:14 <Vorpal> Meaning you can go back to an earlier state of your local unpushed commits
08:48:14 <shachaf> "MQ is rarely needed for new Mercurial users. If you're used to it and you like it, by all means, keep using it. But if you are learning Mercurial, instead use modern tools, such as hg rebase, hg histedit, hg graft, hg strip, hg strip --keep, and hg commit --amend. Check the documentation for each of these commands."
08:48:25 <shachaf> Those "modern tools" sound very similar to git tools.
08:48:33 <shachaf> For example git rebase and git commit --amend
08:48:46 <Vorpal> shachaf: yeah I know, but I like that MQ allows me to version control my history editing. I don't think the more modern tools do
08:49:17 <shachaf> Well, you can always keep a branch referring to your pre-history-rewriting commit.
08:49:24 <shachaf> But I guess that's more manual than you like.
08:50:07 <Vorpal> well mq is semi-manual. You have to remember to commit the current state of the queue. But other than that, it takes care of itself until you need to revert it, at which point it is a bit of work (but hopefully that is rare)
08:50:07 <shachaf> So there's the git reflog, which just keeps track of the states that a branch has been in.
08:50:41 <shachaf> That's not an explicit commit, but you can ask "what commit was this branch pointing to X operations ago or at time Y".
08:50:46 <Vorpal> shachaf: but I guess gc messes that up?
08:51:01 <shachaf> Those aren't GC roots so they might get collected, yes.
08:51:15 <shachaf> You can turn off GC if you like.
08:51:21 <shachaf> Normally it only deletes things over 30 days old, I think.
08:51:43 <Vorpal> Hm, when you strip something in mercurial, it saves a bundle with all the commits you stripped in .hg/strip-backup or something like that
08:51:56 <Vorpal> You could manually clean it, but it would never be auto-collected
08:52:33 <HackEgo> hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
08:52:36 <Vorpal> But that is a non-issue, since stripping commits is a rare operation
08:53:00 <shachaf> Oh, you can disable GC for a particular branch's reflog.
08:53:30 <shachaf> I don't think this is intended for quite the same thing that you're thinking of using it for, but it could work, I guess.
08:53:31 <Vorpal> well having it automatically "commit" on each operation is neat, I'll agree
08:53:33 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/hagb4rd
08:54:18 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull Taneb
08:54:26 <Vorpal> shachaf: basically I use mq at work when working on a large feature, it allows me to work all over the place and split the stuff into logical commits for each sub-feature or part touched.
08:54:33 <shachaf> `` ln -sf hagb4rd wisdom/h4gb4rd
08:55:21 <HackEgo> hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
08:55:24 <shachaf> You can revert if you like.
08:55:32 <shachaf> I didn't like the other entry very much.
08:55:40 <oerjan> no, i thought you'd done it the wrong way.
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08:56:53 <Vorpal> shachaf: what about hg record? Allows you to select which part of a file to include in a commit. Basically asks for each "section" of the diff
08:57:10 <Vorpal> useful if you realise you want to do something in two commits
08:58:31 <Vorpal> shachaf: how do I list outgoing/incoming changes before I push/pull so that I can check that I don't have stuff I'm pushing/pulling that I didn't intend to
08:59:21 <Vorpal> hg out basically lists what would be pushed, if you were to push. Same for hg in and pulling
08:59:26 <shachaf> git pull does two things: git fetch, which fetches a remote repository's branches, and then git merge of the remote branch into the local branch.
08:59:50 <shachaf> You can do it manually. git fetch, and then (say you're on the branch master) you have the remote branch at origin/master and the local branch at master.
08:59:55 <shachaf> Then you can do whatever you want.
09:00:12 <Vorpal> shachaf: so no way to see what git fetch would fetch without actually adding it to your local repo?
09:00:20 <Vorpal> This is especially useful when pushing
09:00:23 <shachaf> Well, it doesn't modify your local branches.
09:00:31 <shachaf> It just modifies your snapshot of the remote repository.
09:00:37 <Vorpal> But the pushing case is more interesting anyway
09:00:55 <Vorpal> I want to make sure I don't push, a commit "LOCAL: ADD DEBUG PRINTS" or something by mistake
09:01:04 <shachaf> Well, you can git fetch and then do whatever you want.
09:01:17 <shachaf> Examine your local master and origin/master, see the differences, etc.
09:01:22 <shachaf> And then push when you're happy.
09:01:33 <Vorpal> Oh so fetching results in you getting an extra branch that represents the remote repo?
09:01:37 <Vorpal> I guess that would work
09:01:52 <shachaf> Right. Well, you get a bunch of branches corresponding to the remote branches.
09:02:19 <Vorpal> also that is a weird way to do it. So branches are local to the repository?
09:02:26 <shachaf> And the local branch you're pushing is presumably a descendant of a remote branch.
09:02:49 <shachaf> Yes, a branch is just a name for a commit.
09:03:10 <shachaf> Often you have a local branch that tracks a remote branch, but you can have private branches etc., no problem.
09:03:39 <Vorpal> hm and I guess you can push a branch to the remote side, otherwise you couldn't create new branches on, say, github
09:05:47 <shachaf> It's a very simple model. If anything it's maybe too simple, so maybe sometimes you need to do strange things to get to the state that you want.
09:07:48 <Vorpal> To me it seems hg's branch model is more sensible. And git's branch model, like hg bookmarks seems mostly pointless
09:08:06 <shachaf> I guess I should use hg sometime to figure out whether that's true.
09:08:55 <shachaf> @google hg branches vs git branches
09:08:55 <lambdabot> https://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/mercurial-vs-git-its-all-in-the-branches/
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09:09:51 <shachaf> hm, https://felipec.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/no-mercurial-branches-are-still-not-better-than-git-ones-response-to-jhws-more-on-mercurial-vs-git-with-graphs/
09:10:01 <Vorpal> shachaf: also mercurial has a really kick ass GUI. TortoiseHg is *really* good
09:10:21 <Vorpal> and of course opinions will differ
09:12:19 <Vorpal> "Repository structure: Mercurial doesn’t allow octopus merges (with more than two parents), nor tagging non-commit objects.
09:12:29 <Vorpal> Whaaat? How do you merge with more than 2 parents?
09:12:37 <Vorpal> That seems... terribly complicated?
09:12:45 <shachaf> I don't know that I've ever done it.
09:12:50 <Vorpal> Most merge tools are 3-way
09:13:26 <Vorpal> shachaf: I assume git supports external GUI merge tools?
09:13:39 <Vorpal> I personally use BeyondCompare (not open, nor free, but really really good)
09:13:47 <shachaf> http://www.gitguys.com/topics/merging-with-a-gui/
09:14:46 <shachaf> Anyway a merge with more than two parents seems like it might be complicated to actually do, but what it is doesn't seem very complicated.
09:15:39 <Vorpal> "Mercurial uses rename tracking, while Git uses rename detection to deal with file renames
09:15:56 <Vorpal> anyway what does it mean with rename detection?
09:16:07 <shachaf> I don't think there's an explicit notion of a file being renamed.
09:16:11 <Vorpal> It doesn't track in the commit that a rename was from a specific file to another?
09:16:17 <shachaf> It's just a deletion and a creation.
09:16:35 <shachaf> A git commit is roughly just a snapshot of a directory tree.
09:16:38 <Vorpal> That seems like it is a loss of useful information when doing merges with conflicts?
09:16:43 <shachaf> I guess that's different from hg.
09:16:48 <shachaf> Maybe it is, I don't know.
09:17:03 <Vorpal> if someone moved the file I did changes in, how does it figure out to apply my changes to that other file instead
09:17:13 <shachaf> With rename detection, I guess?
09:17:45 <Vorpal> seems more brittle if a lot of things changed in the file as well
09:17:55 <Vorpal> or many files were renamed in the same commit
09:18:00 <shachaf> I've had issues with that occasionally.
09:18:42 <shachaf> But a git commit isn't a diff from the previous commit. It's just a snapshot of a tree.
09:18:53 <shachaf> There are one or more parent pointers, which you can use to compute a diff.
09:19:15 <Vorpal> I guess a hg commit *is* a diff
09:19:27 <Vorpal> internally I don't know if it is or not though
09:19:44 <shachaf> Well, it keeps track of rename information one way or another.
09:21:46 <shachaf> Anyway, now that you learned all these details, you'll have to try git out.
09:25:15 <shachaf> I don't understand why you would want to have more than one head in a branch.
09:25:44 <shachaf> I guess you just have different notion of what a branch is in hg.
09:26:09 <shachaf> All the work that goes into a feature, or something like that. You can put all your commits and things in it, and eventually clean it up when you want to merge/push.
09:28:51 <Vorpal> <shachaf> I don't understand why you would want to have more than one head in a branch. <-- you don't. It is a temporary state after you pulled remote changes but before you rebased or merged
09:29:27 <shachaf> So it sounds like an equivalent of git's origin/foo in that case.
09:29:34 <shachaf> Where origin is the repository you fetched from.
09:30:47 <Vorpal> shachaf: a branch in hg might be the work a different team is working on. It is for big changes. And it is for a release with only bug fixes (as opposed to "default" in hg / "master" in git)
09:31:14 <Vorpal> it is usually not for something short lived
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09:31:34 <HackEgo> Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more
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09:33:16 <shachaf> Vorpal: What do you do for something short-lived?
09:34:01 <Vorpal> shachaf: Usually just having multiple heads, then merging it and pushing it.
09:34:22 <shachaf> Often I have a bunch of branches in my repository for various work I've done.
09:34:34 <shachaf> As I finish it I merge/rebase them onto master and push.
09:34:42 <shachaf> Is there an equivalent to that sort of thing?
09:34:56 <Vorpal> I usually don't work that way. I normally work on one or two things at a time. I guess for you there could be bookmarks then?
09:35:14 <Vorpal> Also you can have multiple MQ queues, but again I rarely use that
09:35:31 <Vorpal> I don't think I ever used more than one MQ queue
09:35:54 <shachaf> Also at work I use Phabricator which has a completely different workflow.
09:36:07 <shachaf> It was developed at Facebook, which uses hg, so presumably there's a way to make it work there.
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09:37:07 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
09:37:23 <shachaf> Please keep your read-only bot queries to /msg unless they're relevant to other people.
09:37:40 <Vorpal> shachaf: huh never heard of that one
09:37:58 <shachaf> How do you do code review?
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09:38:54 <Destructible> *some gimmick about knowing things and a positive thing being related*
09:39:21 <Destructible> so, anyway I reckon I'll add a page for my language idea, however
09:39:54 <Destructible> I'm not sure whether it would count as a derivative of brainfuck
09:41:13 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Good rule of thumb: If it could conceivably be a brainfuck derivative, don't even talk about it
09:41:34 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Pretend that you never thought of it and step twice in the river of lice to atone for your sins
09:42:18 <Destructible> ok, I guess I'll just not post it as a derivative
09:42:39 <Vorpal> <shachaf> How do you do code review? <-- at work? Part of the web software we use on our servers with hg and bug management and all that.
09:42:41 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Non-attribution is a heinous crime in this case
09:43:02 <Vorpal> shachaf: not phabricator though, different one
09:43:35 <Destructible> manipulating data happens with moving, instead of a seperate command
09:43:45 <Vorpal> shachaf: Called FogBugz. I have never used any other proprietary one. It is okay I guess.
09:44:19 <Vorpal> I think the review part is some add on though, not the standard kiln one
09:45:52 <Destructible> the main feature of the program is the fact that the only way to change any values not in a straight line (because if you move back to a previous point, all the bits return to previous value) is )
09:46:41 <Destructible> to use the teleport function, which pops the top value of the stack and transports the pointer to that spot
09:46:55 <shachaf> I don't like GitHub's implementation of it via pull requests very much.
09:47:09 <Vorpal> shachaf: oh? I should probably learn how those works btw
09:47:20 <shachaf> Which is a shame because so many projects use GitHub now.
09:47:47 <shachaf> I've historically refused to use pull requests.
09:47:50 <Vorpal> shachaf: anyway, how did you come into contact with Kiln?
09:47:51 <shachaf> I just send people patches.
09:48:12 <shachaf> I think I read about it at hginit.com.
09:48:38 <shachaf> Which is half Kiln advertisement half hg tutorial.
09:48:55 <Vorpal> the problem with a patch it might not be obvious where in the history it applies. And even if you figure it out you have to rebase/merge. Mostly an issue in a highly active project
09:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> zeugmas must be a massive pain in the ass for translators
09:56:01 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: Because how do you translate such a thing?
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09:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> It loses impactfulness when you use different words
09:59:24 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: why does it do that? You assumed I know what that language is?
09:59:48 <Vorpal> I assume "zeugmas" is a language? Or is it a specific word?
10:00:08 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: okay, what does it mean then?
10:00:16 <hppavilion[1]> It's where a word is used only once, but has different meanings when applied to different parts of the sentence
10:00:27 <hppavilion[1]> "You are free to execute your laws, and your citizens, as you see fit"
10:01:00 <hppavilion[1]> In this case, "execute your laws" means to enact the laws and "execute your citizens" means to state-sanctionedly kill them
10:01:06 <shachaf> I think people call that zeugma but maybe it would more accurately be called syllepsis.
10:01:46 <shachaf> There's a famous song by Flanders and Swann that uses these things a lot.
10:02:19 <shachaf> It's clever but the subject matter is distasteful.
10:05:15 <hppavilion[1]> If only there was some way for me to express the ease with which I found that... Some sort of... Button...
10:05:52 <shachaf> If it was in nice mode it might be excusable.
10:08:06 <shachaf> I wonder why the Wikipedia page for that song says that it's about "seduction" rather than "rape".
10:08:57 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Have_Some_Madeira_M%27Dear&diff=514192267&oldid=491132795
10:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Probably because it was intended to be about seduction at the time (1967, for cthulhhu's sake), and that was how it would have been interpreted contemporarily; culture has changed by now, I would say for the better if I wasn't too biased to judge, but if 1967 was different, it's more accurate to refer to it in the way 1967-ians would have seen it than how we now see it
10:11:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I got about 20 seconds into the YouTube video before I decided it probably wasn't my taste
10:13:19 <shachaf> Well, I'd suggest that you read the lyrics before jumping to defend that edit.
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10:16:25 <hppavilion[1]> From tvtropes: "Plots, Characters, and Conflict are tropes, and literally no proper story can be told without them (whatever form they take)."
10:17:35 <shachaf> Well, "plot" is just "what happens", so a story without a plot would be one where nothing happened.
10:18:12 <shachaf> Characters are probably not necessary, if that means sentient characters, at least.
10:18:16 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I think characters is the only one you can really get away with
10:18:16 <Vorpal> you can tell a story without conflict though I think. Though making it engaging might be harder
10:18:18 <shachaf> Conflict is probably not necessary.
10:19:00 <shachaf> Keith Johnstone talks about storytelling in his excellent book _Impro: Improvisation and the Theatre_ (and also his other book _Impro for Storytellers_).
10:19:03 <Vorpal> But consider things like some gag-a-day comic strips. They might not have conflict all the time.
10:19:11 <Vorpal> Sometimes they definitely though
10:19:37 <Vorpal> though I guess you could argue that is not a story as such
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11:34:53 <boily> fungot: fungellot.
11:34:54 <fungot> boily: so be it. :( syntax-rules is too weak for them. i'm straight because that's what sicp is, eopl isn't.
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12:55:04 <fizzie> My phone doesn't like being back in Finland. :/
12:55:12 <fizzie> The one with a Finnish SIM in it, that is.
12:55:38 <fizzie> It's been fine in UK in roaming mode, but now it's all "network not available" when it's back in the operator's own network.
12:56:55 <int-e> can a comment on github link to an issue in a way that its status is visible? it seems a bit silly to comment on another issue just to get a mention, with status, in one's own.
13:02:51 <int-e> well, why don't I try #github
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13:31:16 <Vorpal> Trying to find a library to calculate sunset/sunrise times in erlang. Not hard to implement, but why reinvent the wheel. However googling for this turned out to be surprisingly difficult, due to mostly finding web site telling me when the sun sets in Erlang, China. Which is apparently a place
13:32:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF+BF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47136 * IAM * (+2213) Created page with "'''BF+BF''' is a esoteric programming language that is a combination of Befunge and Brainfuck Extended Type I. I don't have the time to write this fancily, so I'll just includ..."
13:33:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47137&oldid=47096 * IAM * (+12)
13:37:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47138&oldid=46850 * IAM * (+13)
13:37:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47139&oldid=47138 * IAM * (+2)
13:38:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF+BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47140&oldid=47136 * IAM * (+13)
13:38:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF+BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47141&oldid=47140 * IAM * (+2)
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13:50:38 <b_jonas> \oren\: um, it seems some of the newer characters you've added to the font don't show up in http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , as if the font was older than the demo page
13:51:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: ah, sorry, they're better now
13:52:15 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh nice, you've added some of the rarer CJK repetition markers
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15:42:24 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes, and yes. The weird thing is, I swapped the SIM cards (one UK, one Finnish) between the two phones (Nexus 6, Nexus 5X) and now they're both happy.
15:44:25 <fizzie> And I don't think it's just the usual delay for registering to the network; I had been here for almost a day, and rebooted the phone a couple of times.
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15:56:37 <FreeFull> Maybe it'll work if you swap again now
15:57:25 <b_jonas> FreeFull: maybe the phones are locked to a provider? or one of the phones is old or something?
15:57:33 <fizzie> Possibly. I had similar trouble last time as well, again fixed by swapping, and then *un*fixed by swapping back. Then I just kept fiddling at it (including flashing a newer Android build on the phone) and eventually it started working.
15:57:38 <fizzie> They're both retail Nexus devices.
15:57:42 <b_jonas> it might be just random stupidity of the phons
15:58:28 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok, now explain what that means to someone who doesn't follow android phone stuff. how old are they?
15:59:00 <fizzie> I don't really remember. 5X came out in 2015.
15:59:20 <b_jonas> ah, they're not even in order
15:59:29 <fizzie> It's a size-related name.
16:00:38 <b_jonas> although about cards, have they invented a sixth SIM card size yet?
16:00:44 <fizzie> The 5" Nexus 5 is older, the 6" Nexus 6 was I think 2014, and last year they released the pair of Nexus 5X (5.2") and Nexus 6P (...5.9"?) about the same size.
16:01:16 <int-e> http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-6 http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-5x ... useful url scheme
16:01:42 <fizzie> I didn't even know they had a fifth.
16:01:51 <int-e> october 2014; end of september 2015
16:01:57 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_identity_module#Formats
16:02:41 <fizzie> Does that eSIM thing even count?
16:02:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: why wouldn't it count?
16:03:54 <fizzie> Well, you did say "SIM card size".
16:04:52 <b_jonas> it still has the same functionality as a SIM card
16:04:54 <int-e> hmm, at least it's a standardized format
16:04:56 <b_jonas> I don't care what shape it has
16:05:23 <int-e> the non-full-size SIMs aren't much of cards either
16:05:38 <fizzie> No, but at least they're the sort of thing you stick in a device.
16:05:44 <fizzie> Not something soldered in.
16:06:07 <b_jonas> fizzie: I think they're only optionally soldered in
16:06:17 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Embedded_SIM_from_M2M_supplier_Eseye_with_an_adapter_board_for_evaluation_in_a_Mini-SIM_socket_blurred.jpg looks like you could have a socket
16:06:53 <int-e> but it's hard to tell
16:07:10 <b_jonas> but even if it has to be soldered in, it's functionally the same
16:07:12 <fizzie> "Photograph showing an Embedded SIM also known as a chip SIM as used in Machine to Machine (M2M) Applications on business card for scale. Also shows an adapter board to allow the embedded SIM card to be evaluated in a 2FF SIM socket."
16:07:13 <b_jonas> just a bit harder to replace
16:08:28 <fizzie> Have it your way; I'll still consider there's 4 "SIM card sizes" the way I interpret it.
16:09:43 <int-e> this is a bit like the Hitchhiker's trilogy.
16:10:03 <int-e> the term "card" becomes increasingly inapplicable
16:10:34 <int-e> (oh I spelled that correctly)
16:10:47 <fizzie> HackEgovariant: adj., very slow.
16:11:48 <int-e> ah, CaC still provides me with the usual level of fun... "[142454.411715] EXT4-fs (dm-0): Remounting filesystem read-only"
16:12:50 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/PITQ
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16:25:24 <tswett> So I think this is a Church numeral for Graham's number:
16:25:25 <tswett> 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3
16:26:57 <tswett> (\b -> b 3) is the "3^" function.
16:28:11 <tswett> That (\n ->) function there starts with the "3^" function and, (n-1) times, it replaces f with \b -> b f 3.
16:28:36 <b_jonas> fungot, That (\n ->) function there starts with the "3^" function and, (n-1) times, it
16:28:36 <fungot> b_jonas: usually i just mumble without directing the stuff to so many pieces left over :)
16:29:21 <tswett> So, the first replacement turns it into \b -> b (3^) 3, which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it b times...
16:29:23 <Vorpal> fizzie: weird, with the phone
16:29:28 <tswett> So that's wrong, let me change it.
16:29:41 <tswett> 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3
16:30:04 <b_jonas> fungot, do you know what happened to fizzie's fone?
16:30:05 <fungot> b_jonas: what are you using? it works on my data. i have really done is read part of church papers when he designed the entirety of the stack as if it were
16:30:36 <tswett> Okay, so the first replacement turns it into \b -> pred b (3^) 3, which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it (b-1) times. So that gives you (3^^).
16:32:09 <b_jonas> @pl \b -> pred b (3^) 3 -- which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it (b-1) times. So that gives you (3^^).
16:34:25 <tswett> The second replacement turns it into \b -> pred b (3^^) 3, which starts with 3 and applies (3^^) to it (b-1) times, so you have (3^^^).
16:34:51 <b_jonas> @pl \b -> pred b (3^^) 3 -- , which starts with 3 and applies (3^^) to it (b-1) times, so you have (3^^^).
16:35:11 <tswett> @pl 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3
16:35:11 <lambdabot> 64 (flip (flip pred (flip flip 3 . flip pred)) ($ 3)) 3
16:36:02 <tswett> One last correction, then it'll actually be correct.
16:36:06 <tswett> 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 4
16:36:20 <b_jonas> @type 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 4
16:36:21 <lambdabot> (Enum (t2 -> a -> t1), Enum ((t2 -> (t2 -> a -> t1) -> t1) -> ((a1 -> t3) -> t3) -> t), Num a, Num a1, Num a2, Num ((((t2 -> (t2 -> a -> t1) -> t1) -> ((a1 -> t3) -> t3) -> t) -> t) -> a2 -> t4)) => t4
16:38:33 <tswett> @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in ch 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f (ch 3)) (\b -> b (ch 3))) (ch 4)
16:39:03 <tswett> @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in 'x'
16:39:25 <tswett> @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = undefined :: ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in ch 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f (ch 3)) (\b -> b (ch 3))) (ch 4)
16:39:26 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
16:39:26 <lambdabot> Expected type: ((((((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a)
16:42:12 <tswett> @pl \n f x -> f (n f x)
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16:43:11 <tswett> @pl \n p f x = n f (p f x)
16:43:20 <tswett> @pl \n p f x -> n f (p f x)
16:43:27 <tswett> @pl \n p f x -> p f (n f x)
16:43:38 <lambdabot> Monad m => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r
16:43:48 <lambdabot> (\ c d e -> d >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (c b a))
16:46:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ksh: not found
16:46:47 <int-e> `` cd /bin; echo *sh
16:46:48 <tswett> What does -f do on type?
16:46:58 <Sgeo> Is it just me or is Erlang in love with global mutable variables (what Erlangers would call registering "processes" with "names")
16:47:05 <int-e> tswett: type -f is which, more or less
16:47:29 <int-e> oh. I failed to parse the question
16:47:37 <b_jonas> fungot, is Erlang in love with global mutable variables?
16:47:37 <fungot> b_jonas: can't assign to function call ( increasing the refcount) and fnord) system calls that increment and decrement by setting flags on its data about variables...
16:47:43 <b_jonas> `8-ball is Erlang in love with global mutable variables?
16:47:45 <HackEgo> Concentrate and ask again.
16:47:58 <HackEgo> echo is a shell builtin \ echo is /bin/echo
16:48:28 <tswett> `` type bash; type -f bash
16:48:29 <HackEgo> bash is /bin/bash \ bash is /bin/bash
16:48:40 <tswett> I'm just gonna look it up.
16:48:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
16:49:33 <HackEgo> bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \
16:49:38 <moon_> i wonder if it is re- oh yay'
16:49:41 <tswett> "If the -f option is used, type does not attempt to find shell functions, as with the command builtin. "
16:50:11 <tswett> Which is to say, the "command" builtin, not the command "builtin".
16:50:18 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `/bin/test': Read-only file system
16:51:02 <b_jonas> `8-ball what's with #esoteric today?
16:51:39 <moon_> `8-ball Will you ever learn to use proper grammar?
16:52:50 <moon_> thats the right bot i hope
16:54:35 <lambdabot> run <expr>. You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts!
16:55:21 <lambdabot> [1,632422352,1264844703,1897267054,2529689405,3162111756,3794534107,44269564...
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17:12:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Quiqucode * New user account
17:14:08 <moon_> lets hope we get someone to stick around
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18:03:16 <tswett> So, uh, is that what happens?
18:07:21 <moon_> you new? never seen you before
18:16:19 <b_jonas> On a fat32 filesystem, the file mtimes are recorded as local time. Whe mounting such a fs on linux, as type=vfat, how do I tell linux what timezone to use? That's probably impossible, because the kernel doesn't know about it, right?
18:16:34 <b_jonas> Is there some other solution, like a user-space file system that knows about this?
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18:33:11 <int-e> run windows on GMT? (not really kidding, it's what I do to avoid a mess on DST switches)
18:34:22 <b_jonas> int-e: windows isn't involved
18:34:30 <b_jonas> int-e: the fat is written by a non-windows mobile phone
18:34:37 <b_jonas> int-e: windows uses ntfs these days
18:35:32 <b_jonas> int-e: it's phones and cameras and cash registers and those kinds of stuff that use FAT, and they still will be using them in 2097 when the fat date rolls around and people will find themselves with broken machines, way worse than in 2000 or in 2037
18:36:44 <b_jonas> int-e: because software running on the cpu is easy to update, so people will get 64 bit dates in memory easily, but file system formats are hard to update, because you have to get many machines coordinated, and FAT in particular is very impossible to update, BECAUSE WINDOWS 95 ORS FILLED ALL THE 32 BYTES OF THE DIRECTORY ENTRY SO THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO SPACE LEFT FOR A COMPATIBLE EXTENSION
18:36:47 <int-e> looking at /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/vfat.txt , there's a timezone=UTC to tell the kernel to assume UTC; there's a time_offset=minutes to get a custom offset.
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18:37:35 <int-e> wow, I should really use cut&paste
18:37:41 <int-e> tz=UTC is what the first flag is
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18:37:59 <b_jonas> ah, and http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/mount.8.html tells about tz=UTC , I should just look under type=fat (which type=vfat inherits from) rather than type=vfat
19:10:32 <b_jonas> \oren\: I see you added three extra runes to your font from the Verne cryptogram: the G rune, the D rune, a variant C/K rune.
19:10:51 <b_jonas> \oren\: but I have some questions. (1) in the demo page, what does red and yellow characters mean? I know the green means recently added
19:11:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: and the other, do you have a brief description somewhere on what you're using each private use character for in your font?
19:11:41 <\oren\> red is characters that aren't real ones. yellow is new red ones.
19:12:03 <\oren\> That is a good idea, I'll add a description
19:12:11 <b_jonas> um, what are they if not real ones?
19:12:59 <b_jonas> and aren't the green ones the new ones?
19:17:09 <\oren\> the green and yellow are both new
19:17:21 <\oren\> the yellow and red are both non-unicode
19:18:03 <\oren\> I've added a description of what I put in the PUA
19:18:12 <b_jonas> \oren\: but then why aren't the "Extra non-standard characters for Commodore 64 charset
19:18:24 <b_jonas> did you get those encoded in unicode or somethign/
19:18:54 <\oren\> No that's just a mistakre
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20:54:31 <b_jonas> int-e: what's the reason this time
20:57:41 <int-e> I'm trying to update lambdabot... which relies on safehaskell for... safety
20:57:55 <int-e> and every time I do that there's a million modules in lens that can't be imported safely
21:12:24 <HackEgo> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t
21:39:01 <int-e> (the real problem here is that tracking safe modules has virtually no tool support... I'm manually pasting import lines into ghci in order to figure out which modules are safe and which are not)
21:46:44 <Taneb> `run echo "¯\(o_°)/¯ ?sdrawkcab" > wisdom/backward
21:47:09 <shachaf> Taneb: What, you don't believe in `mk?
21:47:23 <Taneb> shachaf, I don't believe in a lot of things
21:48:00 <Taneb> I do not even believe in Set
21:48:03 <shachaf> The thing I quoted in in #haskell-offtopic is p. neat.
21:48:38 <Taneb> I don't believe in #haskell-offtopic
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21:57:54 <int-e> in the end two modules needed to be patched... but I looked at 30 to figure out which of them are the root causes...
21:58:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47142&oldid=46987 * Jacek Michalak * (+15) /* External resources */
22:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Palindrome]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47143&oldid=25341 * Jacek Michalak * (+115) /* External resources */
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22:09:48 <b_jonas> shachaf: oh, that's the channel that got split off because there was a schism in #haskell-blah ? seriously, who's heard of such a thing, an off-topic channel getting so out of hand that half of them go found a new channel
22:10:16 <shachaf> Why are you doing that when it's pretty certain they'll mostly not be found?
22:10:27 <HackEgo> #haskell-offtopic? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:10:29 <HackEgo> #haskell-blah? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:10:32 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
22:10:55 <shachaf> The schism was that someone turned on the TLS-only flag.
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23:28:27 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
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23:29:50 <zzo38> What does "hatheist" mean, is that anything like "atheist"? (And does Scotish even have any true?)
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23:31:48 <zzo38> Do you like Dungeons&Dragons game?
23:40:47 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
23:42:54 <myname> so there is this person on another channel, joining for the first time ever, asking for an isp that does not have ipv6 because it makes the output of netstat ugly ...
23:43:02 <myname> this is why we can't have nice things
23:44:15 <pikhq_> The answer I recommend is "go fuck yourself".
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23:45:05 <myname> that was basically my answer
23:45:38 <myname> he got what he asked for
23:46:01 <izabera> i thought he asked for an isp that [...]
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23:46:52 <myname> he clearly.asked for a kick to the guts
23:48:04 <myname> "the output of netstat is ugly" is like the worst possible reason to cling to some shitload old technology that will be replaced sooner or later
23:48:37 <izabera> maybe it was a made up reason to cover the actual reason that he's not allowed to share
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23:49:14 <myname> he also emphasizes on how he doesn't take advantages out of ipv6
23:50:55 <zzo38> Can you fix netstat? That is a separate problem.
23:52:13 <b_jonas> myname: NO! netstat actually has options to filter by protocol
23:52:55 <myname> his reason is rstupid no matter how easy or hard it is to change the output of netstat
23:53:21 <b_jonas> myname: but I mean, using grep for that is as much of a crime as using grep on ps output
23:53:51 <b_jonas> or possibly more because netstat is more expensive and invasive to processes' private file descriptors
23:53:59 <myname> b_jonas: i use grep on the output of find . because i always forget the correct arguments