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00:02:44 <int-e> oerjan: have you come to dispel the myths of this channel's premature demise?
00:05:30 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Every time someone says that it reminds me of that StackOverflow answer. <-- a quick google didn't find what you're talking about tdnh
00:06:03 <shachaf> @google magic haskell reflection
00:06:04 <lambdabot> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17793466/black-magic-in-haskell-reflection
00:06:04 <lambdabot> Title: Black Magic in Haskell Reflection - Stack Overflow
00:08:53 <moon__> im writeing up another example for fumble: pretending that it understands what the heck a decimal point is
00:09:06 <oerjan> ah i kept the you instead of the magic.
00:16:33 <prooftechnique> Whenever I see Proxy, the code makes perfect sense as long as I replace it with "whatever you need it to be"
00:16:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47158&oldid=47156 * Moon * (+305) Added Decimal Numbers example -Moon_
00:16:52 <shachaf> If you replace Proxy with @, everything'll work out.
00:17:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47159&oldid=47158 * Moon * (-40) minor error
00:18:20 <\oren\> I'm leaving for Tokyo tomorrow.
00:19:14 <moon__> oerjan, what do you think of fumble?
00:21:58 <oerjan> this might have something to do with not having looked at it.
00:23:57 <oerjan> moon__: for an esolang, its main unusual feature seems to be _not_ using single character commands hth
00:24:28 <moon__> instead it has a full syntax
00:24:47 <moon__> makes it more intresting, really
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00:29:54 <oerjan> . o O ( someone should get hold of peer and give him a good beating )
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00:33:23 <moon_> my laptop's batter fell out >_>
00:37:05 <oerjan> i guess it hasn't been properly baked.
00:38:35 <moon_> Oerjan, i can give you the factorial of the sum of your username
00:39:12 <moon_> {main[args:num]: print-num print-"'s factorial is" [tmp,tmp2,tmp3,sum] until-{cmp-tmp2-1}( set[tmp,num] dec-tmp2 mult-tmp2-num po-tmp3 set-sum-tmp3 set-tmp-tmp2 ) print-sum }
00:39:31 <shachaf> didn't oerjan just say he didn't want it
00:39:59 <moon_> 'not particularly' is not synonym to 'didnt want', its like 'maybe'
00:40:27 <oerjan> no, it's diplomatic for "didn't want" hth
00:40:39 <moon_> eh, didnt take that into account
00:41:24 * oerjan is reminded of an anecdote about norwegian-korean culture collision
00:41:54 <oerjan> basically koreans (and i think many other asians) will never outright say "no" to an invitation.
00:42:17 <prooftechnique> :::==== ::: :::==== ::: :::==== :::======= :::==== :::===== ::: ===
00:42:20 <prooftechnique> ::: === ::: ::: === ::: ::: === ::: === === ::: === ::: ::: ===
00:42:22 <prooftechnique> === === === ======= === === === === === === ======== === =====
00:42:27 <prooftechnique> ======= === === ======== ====== === === === === ======= ===
00:42:44 <prooftechnique> It's when someone gives you something without expecting something in return, hth
00:42:48 <moon_> lol i broke the words
00:43:01 <oerjan> her actual response was "maybe i'll try", which the norwegian interpreted as that she might come.
00:43:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm not focused enough hth
00:43:55 <shachaf> oerjan: proof that you're norwegian hth
00:46:55 <oerjan> prooftechnique: apparently the question of whether to say no to food, when, and whether to accept such a no, is somewhat of a cultural collision even inside norway. although not anywhere i recall being.
00:47:42 <oerjan> in some communities you're supposed to say no several times before accepting.
00:48:20 <oerjan> (and of course this is an international mess)
00:48:59 <oerjan> which leads to the case where you might want more food, be polite in your way, and the host might interpret it as a final no.
00:49:53 <prooftechnique> oerjan: I have that problem in Sweden, as well. I don't want to imply that I didn't like the food, but I don't want to be a glutton
00:50:35 * oerjan has been known to take the last piece of cake hth hth
00:50:46 <prooftechnique> Though I have that problem everywhere. Except at home, I guess. Only God can judge the amount of pork I eat at home
00:51:09 <moon_> i want to make a interpreter for N--, how should i handle the variable system? http://esolangs.org/wiki/N--
00:51:10 <prooftechnique> The last piece of cake? You're a real monster, and no mistake
00:51:37 <oerjan> dammit, double hth again
00:52:15 <prooftechnique> moon_: Start by making them immutable, then tweak accordingly. :D
00:53:18 <\oren\> I've now booked my hotel. I'm staying in a capsule hotel
00:53:53 <prooftechnique> moon_: Do as I said in C. Then `sed 's/const//g' yourfile.c`
00:54:40 <prooftechnique> I usually pay upwards of a thousand USD, and that's at a hotel that likes me o.o
00:55:08 <\oren\> Well, a capsule hotel is a hotel that is very... minimal
00:55:12 <moon_> ill just use a 2d array: vartable[26][26]
00:55:53 <shachaf> oerjan: Why do you keep a de-hthing script if you just work around it all the time?
00:56:07 <\oren\> There are separate floors for men-only and women-only
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00:57:28 <\oren\> anyway if they want to do that there atre love hotels that give you a nice soft bed
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01:01:31 <moon_> how do i convert a letter to its respective place in the alphabet?
01:03:47 <oerjan> in ascii, that is. if you're using ebcdic you're on your own.
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01:05:24 * oerjan imagines prooftechnique's line being self-referential.
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01:13:28 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> (Wikipedia doesn't hate fun, right?) <-- you were being sarcastic, right?
01:14:00 <oerjan> it definitely hates fun in the main article namespace, and only somewhat tolerates it elsewhere.
01:14:59 <oerjan> although the "Did you know" section on the front page seems to have misleading descriptions on occasion, and not just on April 1.
01:15:51 <oerjan> wait are you 1 hour idle and still not pinged out
01:16:11 * oerjan needs to tweak his idle detection algorithm
01:17:37 <moon_> N-- will soon have a interpreter
01:18:06 <quintopia> that porthello makes me nauseated for some reason
01:18:18 <quintopia> it sounds even grosser than "queef"
01:19:57 * oerjan now regrets looking that up
01:20:01 <quintopia> i can't come to work, boss. I'm quevening all over the bathroom floor!
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01:49:06 <moon_> did you look at my new esolang? its not singlechar and has a syntax
01:49:23 <moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fumble
01:50:16 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: They should be third-person with a touch of second-person when necessary
01:50:42 <prooftechnique> Occasional 4th person for the purpose of reducing ambiguity
01:50:55 <moon_> Sorry, Im not the best writer
01:51:16 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_person#Additional_persons
01:52:35 <moon_> well what do you think of it, tho?
01:52:36 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Ah, yes, "one" works too, though I prefer to call that zeroth person
01:53:00 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: Non-English languages have other persons beyond the indefinite one
01:53:31 <prooftechnique> They have thing like "him" but also "him, but closer to me than that other one"
01:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Also, there are code excerpts that aren't in monospace, and that drives me crazy
01:53:49 <prooftechnique> Where closer is either due to proximity or some intangible quality
01:53:56 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: I think that this is a first draft for the moment.
01:54:18 <prooftechnique> I wonder how much of a language could be implemented in MS Word formatting codes
01:54:46 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: No, really. It isn't properly formated, so it's very difficult to read
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01:58:33 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: Set your default font to monospace, hth
01:59:41 <prooftechnique> Though all these unintended ligatures are a bit odd :D
02:00:25 <moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fumble
02:04:23 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I assume that there's an out-of-control trolleycar which you can direct onto one of three tracks by changing points
02:04:38 <ais523> and you know that two of the tracks are blocked by people
02:04:55 <ais523> after you move the points, someone who can see the tracks tells you that one of the tracks you didn't pick has a person on it
02:05:03 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Or, more accurately, there are more people on one track than on the other two
02:05:03 <ais523> do you change the points to the other unknown track?
02:05:16 <ais523> no, has to be more on two than the other one
02:05:35 <ais523> monty hall problem requires one desirable outcome and two undesirable outcomes to work
02:05:42 <ais523> if you have two desirable and one undesirable
02:06:00 <ais523> then either the host tells you about the undesirable outcome and it doesn't matter whether you switch, it's desirable either way
02:06:03 <zzo38> Do any of the tracks have something that can stop the train?
02:06:06 <ais523> or the host tells you about a desirable outcome, in which case you just take it
02:06:19 <ais523> zzo38: in this problem, people normally assume no
02:06:24 <ais523> although that's unrealistic
02:06:37 <hppavilion[1]> "OK, you chose door C. Now we're going to open door A, which has a goat. Would you like to switch doors?"
02:06:44 <ais523> as the problem involves a set of points, and you have a decent chance of being able to stop a train by changing the points setting while the train is over the points
02:07:30 <ais523> I guess the points could have a safety feature that prevents them being changed when a train is nearby
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02:08:04 <moon_> that problem gae me anothe esolang idea, one powered by trains and points
02:08:12 <ais523> this actually happened in the london underground runaway that's possibly the closest real life has come to the trolley problem (as a bonus, nobody was hurt, although nobody had enough information to know that that would be the outcome)
02:08:22 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Actually, I have the patent rights to that esolang idea.
02:08:30 <prooftechnique> You're all ignoring the obvious. Take a plane instead and you won't have to deal with this conundrum
02:09:12 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: But how do we kill people and make it look like an accident or the-best-of-a-bad-situation when it's a plane?
02:09:52 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... The trolley problem becomes a lot more complicated when you know the person you can switch to AND you have reason to hate them- say, your spouse had an affair with them
02:10:06 <hppavilion[1]> Because then it seems like you could conceivably charge it as murder
02:10:23 <prooftechnique> Even more complicated if you care more about their happiness than about their fidelity
02:12:19 <hppavilion[1]> An IRC client that makes you trade nicks with other people using that client at random
02:12:28 <ais523> here: https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/547c8feae5274a428d00015b/R092011_110615_Highgate.pdf
02:12:42 <hppavilion[1]> (even messages mentioning that person get substituted for your nick)
02:12:50 <ais523> the basic summary is that a an engineering train ran away on the london underground
02:13:06 <ais523> and the signallers went to a lot of effort to move all the other trains out of its path
02:13:12 <moon_> Hmm, neuron based esolang...
02:13:22 <prooftechnique> prooftechnique: That sounds like a very annoying IRC client
02:13:30 <zzo38> If your name is a common word, then it is something else.
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02:16:01 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, "it is administered by the Internet Office of the Holy See."
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02:17:10 <hppavilion[1]> Damn, I was hoping to get my hands on porn.va and use it to offend every catholic everywhere
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02:17:54 <prooftechnique> I would host a language to serve as a direct counterpoint to Go
02:18:16 <prooftechnique> Though it would also be great for hosting pirated PBS specials
02:18:33 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Is it even possible to pirate a PBS special?
02:20:12 <zzo38> Of course it is possible to steal from a non-profit. But I don't expect pirating PBS specials for them to lose anything.
02:21:53 <oerjan> morocco is marokko in norwegian, anyway.
02:28:32 <prooftechnique> I'm extremely disappointed that abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvw.xyz is taken
02:28:55 <ais523> is it taken by Alphabet, by any chance?
02:29:30 <prooftechnique> It is not. It is actually taken by xyz.com, a registrar for .xyz domains
02:29:33 <moon_> No, taken by xyz :P
02:30:12 <moon_> if only i had a personal website named moon.esoteric lol
02:31:08 <moon_> I'd be honoring the esoteric channel by that lol
02:33:04 <zzo38> select(typeof('\'')x){}/*'))where 0;/*/main(){puts("Hello, World!");}//*/select'Hello, World!';
02:34:53 <moon_> try doing that in N--
02:35:24 <shachaf> But abc.xyz is taken by Alphabet.
02:35:27 <zzo38> prooftechnique: What does it look to you?
02:36:34 <zzo38> No it isn't. (I tried, and it doesn't work.)
02:37:31 <moon_> try searching that in the esolang iki
02:38:23 <zzo38> I doubt you could search for such a mess on Google effectively anyways.
02:38:28 <zzo38> prooftechnique: I wrote it.
02:39:50 <zzo38> prooftechnique: What do you think it is? Maybe you can try to understand by yourself too?
02:42:31 <zzo38> Do you know any C programming?
02:43:44 <prooftechnique> It just prints "Hello, World!". That was what I expected from the Cish bits
02:44:32 <zzo38> It also defines (and then doesn't use) a function called "select"
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02:48:52 <oerjan> i think the other language is SQL
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02:49:55 <oerjan> and it works because they treat '\'' differently, so C thinks that's one char but SQL continues with a string to the next '
02:51:12 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... A programming language where the code is the color and the markup is the text?
02:51:51 <prooftechnique> oerjan: I think most SQL dialects will choke on typeof
02:52:28 <oerjan> prooftechnique: oh hm...
02:52:46 <oerjan> maybe it doesn't care what's inside because of the "where 0"?
02:53:18 <zzo38> There is a "typeof" function in SQLite at least.
02:55:19 <zzo38> It can be shortened by moving the zero
02:55:33 <zzo38> (by just one byte)
02:56:24 <zzo38> Here is the shortened version: select(typeof('\'')x){}/*'))where/*/main(){puts("Hello, World!");}//*/0;select'Hello, World!';
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03:42:36 <FreeFull> prooftechnique: Added restriction, no spaces in the one-liner
03:43:42 <FreeFull> I mean, that would make it even more fun
03:43:58 <FreeFull> That particular one-liner already is almost spaceless, there are only spaces in the strings
03:44:16 <FreeFull> So if you're fine with Hello,World! it'd be good
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04:08:14 <HackEgo> 1279) <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
04:08:34 <oerjan> `sled quotes//1279s/ / /
04:08:42 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
04:08:59 <HackEgo> 1279) <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
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04:49:14 <HackEgo> 582) <monqy> where is this going. why is this going.
04:49:26 <\oren\> That Moon_ has a short orbit
05:10:07 <Sgeo_> Hmm. Apparently I voted differently from at least one member of #esoteric
05:11:30 <zzo38> Voted differently on what?
05:11:47 <Sgeo_> Who to vote for in the US primaries
05:14:54 <pikhq> How do you know that?
05:15:12 <Sgeo_> pikhq, because I saw your status + comments on that status
05:15:17 <pikhq> Oh, right. That. :P
05:15:56 * pikhq definitely voted for Sanders, though honestly at this point it's more about messaging-in-polls than anything else.
05:16:12 <pikhq> Odds of Clinton being nominated are like 99.9% or something.
05:16:27 * Sgeo_ voted for Clinton, largely concerned about competence and electability.
05:16:44 <Sgeo_> I think I've pushed myself in too much of an anti-Bernie bubble
05:17:39 <pikhq> I'm also voting pretty much right at the end of the primary season which means that I know, and vote based on that.
05:18:38 <pikhq> And, honestly, as far as I can tell Bernie is fairly competent and would do reasonably as President.
05:18:46 <pikhq> Now, *electable*, that's a different question entirely.
05:19:13 <pikhq> But not one I need to think about when my vote is effectively just saying "I support more liberal policies from Democratic party".
05:21:53 <Sgeo_> I will say that I think everyone in both campaigns is disappointed at the thought of lowered turnout
05:24:55 <pikhq> Yeah... I do not like the idea of Trump winning because of lower turnout from Dems.
05:25:09 <pikhq> Especially with potentially 3 different SCOTUS justices up for nomination.
05:26:00 * Sgeo_ meant more acutely lower primary turnout tomorrow because of the nomination being called for Clinton
05:35:24 <pikhq> In CA it's kinda important even ignoring the President though; a Senate office is up for election, and the incumbent isn't running.
05:40:04 <oerjan> oerjan> although the "Did you know" section on the front page seems to have misleading descriptions on occasion, and not just on April 1. <-- also puns. like, the last one right now...
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06:20:28 <zzo38> I have made up the classifications of possible external ante rules for Magic: the Gathering, which are: scoreless-per-duel, scored-per-duel, scoreless-per-match, scored-per-match, scoreless-per-tournament, scored-per-tournament, prize-altering, permanent. (These are just broad classifications, and many formats are possible in each one.)
06:23:47 <shachaf> Do you score less per duel than ever before?
06:25:56 <zzo38> "Scoreless-per-duel ante" means that all ownership changes end at the end of a duel, and do not further affect the tournament in any way (the only thing that affects it is who won that duel).
06:27:41 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, in all official tournaments, it is not played for ante, and all ante cards are banned.
06:27:58 <shachaf> You're suggesting an illegal tournament?
06:28:00 <zzo38> Permanent ante is not suitable if using borrowed cards or custom cards; the others are suitable even in these cases though.
06:28:24 <zzo38> shachaf: Actually, it does not even necessarily have to be a tournament.
06:28:24 <shachaf> It should be called "permanante".
06:28:35 <zzo38> O, that is what it is called. OK
06:51:25 <izabera> what's your take on these java api?
06:51:53 <izabera> ignoring the fact that a good half of the users here are google employees
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07:13:04 <oerjan> izabera: i think that's _possibly_ an exaggeration hth
07:13:18 <oerjan> (i only know two for sure.)
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07:13:44 <izabera> i can invite a few more to compensate
07:14:04 <oerjan> izabera: ok, but then they have to know haskell. mustn't upset the balance.
07:14:24 <Destructible_> I came up with an resoling, but now I do not know what to call it
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07:15:09 <izabera> i bet there's no language called myesolang on the wiki
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07:15:25 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Because, IIRC, TSP requires you to be able to quickly verify a correct solution
07:15:29 <izabera> https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?search=myesolang&title=Special:Search&fulltext=Search see?
07:16:04 <Cale> What about Visual MyEsoLang++
07:17:13 <Cale> #Visual #MyEsoLang
07:17:37 <izabera> that's either twittertalk or irc but it's not good for a language's name
07:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> An esolang based on #hashtags would be vaguely interesting
07:18:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Izabera * New user account
07:19:19 <Destructible_> I'd be making that after I actually finished this esolang I already made
07:19:56 <Cale> The execution of the program depends inextricably on what's trending
07:20:34 <izabera> wtf my name has a lowercase i
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07:22:21 <Destructible_> so, anyway, I still have no idea what to call my esolang
07:22:57 <hppavilion[1]> OH MY GOD http://i.imgur.com/R9JoJ9t.gifv IS AMAZING
07:23:30 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: Are CPP macros Turing complete? Tht could be your hashtag language
07:24:07 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: what did i just witness?
07:24:34 <pikhq> prooftechnique: Long story short, "no".
07:25:16 <pikhq> Though they're close enough that the difference is probably pointless; you can easily get computations that run 'til the heat death, but are technically finite, with CPP macros.
07:25:31 <izabera> Destructible_: a rose by any other name...
07:26:23 <izabera> why does it need to be appropriate?
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07:28:35 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible_wat: Just randomly generate a string and call it that
07:29:34 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible_wat: ''.join([string.ascii_lowercase[random.randrange(0, len(string.ascii_lowercase))] for _ in (random.randrange(3, 15))]) (python, string and random must be imported)
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07:33:19 <izabera> i suggest a new language called heck, which is like hack but closer to its php roots
07:33:33 <izabera> in fact, every php interpreter is also able to interpret heck
07:34:31 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: but you could probably use chr()
07:35:37 <oerjan> <izabera> wtf my name has a lowercase i <-- sorry, capitalization is automatic. there are some workarounds for page titles and signatures.
07:35:49 <Elronnd> ''.join([chr(random.randrange(30,500) for _ in random.randrange(3,15)])
07:36:34 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Wait, is the TSP NP? <-- nope, it's not a decision problem.
07:38:25 <b_jonas> http://magiccards.info/m10/de/202.html http://magiccards.info/10e/de/290.html http://magiccards.info/10e/en/290.html
07:39:01 <b_jonas> there are German printings of two M:tG cards whose German names are identical, despite that their English names differ, and also this German name is identical to the English name of one of those cards?
07:39:11 <b_jonas> I thought this wasn't supposed to happen
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07:44:27 <oerjan> b_jonas: things that aren't supposed to happen sometimes do hth
07:45:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: one class TSP is in is FP^NP, i.e. polynomial functions with an NP oracle.
07:45:23 <oerjan> although there's probably a slightly weaker one
07:45:56 <oerjan> "polynomial function" being a function computable in polynomial time.
07:46:59 <oerjan> the true NP version of TSP is "is there a path shorter than k"
07:47:09 <shachaf> oerjan: are you sure it's not a function with many names hth
07:47:13 <hppavilion[1]> Is there any substance less dense than pure Hydrogen 1?
07:48:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: hm i recall there was some foam lighter than air. not sure about hydrogen.
07:48:42 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I know there's aerofoam (or something), but I don't think it's lighter than air; it's just really really light
07:48:45 <oerjan> i think that should be polyonymic. but i'm not sure, it looks ugly.
07:48:51 <shachaf> An anonomyial function is like a polynomial function, but you don't know its degree.
07:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> It can't really be lighter than air because it's 99.97% air
07:49:31 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i thought they vacuumed it or something?
07:50:12 <shachaf> I was pretty excited about aerogel a little over a decade ago.
07:50:24 <shachaf> And then I was surprised to find out that a company in the small (~10,000 people) town I lived in made it.
07:50:39 <shachaf> I called them and asked if I could get a sample but they said no.
07:51:24 <pikhq> If aerogel were lighter than air it'd *float*.
07:51:38 <shachaf> Maybe if I'd told them I was [redacted] years old they would've taken pity on me.
07:51:39 <b_jonas> I seem to remember they actually made versions lighter than air
07:51:55 <shachaf> Now I can't say the number because it would reveal my age.
07:52:06 <shachaf> Presumably because I wasn't offering any money.
07:52:09 <pikhq> b_jonas: Not impossible, but that'd imply they did something like manufacture it in a helium atmosphere.
07:52:48 <shachaf> I think the smallest sample you could buy was $100 or something.
07:53:00 <myname> i like the PAD-SAT problem
07:53:10 <b_jonas> pikhq: why would they have to manufacture it in a helium atmosphere? that'd be expensive. they'd just manufacture it in rarified air (near vacuum, it doesn't have to be really rare) or rarified nitrogen
07:53:37 <pikhq> I said "something like".
07:53:40 <pikhq> Those would work too.
07:54:44 <pikhq> "List of lists of sexually active popes" anyone?
07:55:02 <b_jonas> hmm, apparently they do manufacture it in a helium atmosphere, so it gets filled with helium for pressure
07:55:29 <shachaf> pikhq: Are you still pooching it up?
07:55:52 <pikhq> More or less, yup.
07:56:37 <hppavilion[1]> "People handling aerogel for extended periods should wear gloves to prevent the appearance of dry brittle spots on their skin."
07:56:45 <shachaf> Pooching away again in margaritaville.
07:58:49 <hppavilion[1]> So I probably can't buy some in my conceivable lifetime
08:00:48 <shachaf> I didn't realize that one of aerogel's applications involved menstruation.
08:01:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Why would you want that? Seems like a pretty bad application
08:01:30 <shachaf> Also how long is an extended period?
08:03:14 <shachaf> In Xanth, an ellipsis is used to summon the stork.
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08:08:33 <oerjan> shachaf: surely you need 10 periods for a stork, not just 3
08:09:05 <shachaf> am i missing one this time
08:11:02 <hppavilion[1]> "When a mommy and a daddy love each other very much and want to have a baby, they have sex. They keep having sex, right in front of the stork, until he gives in and puts in a request for a baby delivery to make them stop. Then, 9 months later due to bureaucratic procedures, a baby is delivered"
08:12:31 <shachaf> The best I can think of is that a pregnancy lasts about 9 months, but it must be something else.
08:13:37 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: And a period is slightly less than monthly, so about 10 periods are "lost" when a baby is gestating
08:20:07 <hppavilion[1]> (Fun fact: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY is a palindrome)
08:21:26 <HackEgo> fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)
08:21:28 <oerjan> fun fact: HackEgo is damn slow
08:22:05 <myname> is that supposed to be haskell?
08:22:57 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan kmc
08:23:28 <HackEgo> 1/1:<oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <oerjan> sed -i \'s/|/ |/\' wisdom/fun\\ fact \ <oerjan> sed -i \'1N; s/\\n *//\' wisdom/fun\\ fact \ <oerjan> revert \ <oerjan> sed -i \'1N; s/ *//\' wisdom/fun\\ fact \ <kmc> printf \'fun fact 0 = 1\\n | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)\\n\' > wisdom/fun\\ fact \
08:26:22 <myname> fun fact: i discussed a german translation for "fun fact" with a few people and we decided it to be "ulkiger umstand"
08:26:30 <deltab> USING ALIEN TECHNOLOGY
08:26:49 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU
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08:27:31 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/md/htuqqx12.html
08:27:37 <mroman> 10% pixels is way too much :D
08:29:31 <zzo38> When I use xdpyinfo it says there is 96 visuals, and then lists them, all details seem same for each one except some are TrueColor and some are DirectColor, and one of them has 32 planes while the rest have 24. Do you know what is the purpose of the many visuals?
08:30:15 <shachaf> 96 isn't a very big number compared to, say, 65536.
08:31:45 <int-e> glxinfo may give a clue
08:32:33 <int-e> (though not a complete answer)
08:32:40 * int-e doesn't know the complete answer
08:34:07 <deltab> zzo38: but there are all different somehow?
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08:35:49 <zzo38> deltab: I don't know!
08:37:32 <deltab> my guess is it's just the cartesian product of settings that can now vary independently but couldn't when the api was designed
08:37:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you know about antifunctions?
08:41:13 <shachaf> An antifunction maps an antiset to an antiset.
08:41:24 <shachaf> An antiset might be a set of memory locations, for instance.
08:42:08 <shachaf> So an antifunction : A -> B gives meaning to a set of memory locations B in terms of a set of memory locations A.
08:42:13 <shachaf> It can delete and duplicate elements of A.
08:52:22 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if I say "it is pronounced the same way as phnord", can you still see "phnord"
08:52:32 <hppavilion[1]> Hell, if I put it in a sentence, will the word just be missing?
08:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> And what if I make a list of every word up to a certain length? Will there just be a blank space where "fnord" should be? Will I be able to see it so I can't tell which one I can't see otherwise? Will it get deleted and all the others moved up?
08:53:59 <hppavilion[1]> If the others moved up, couldn't I just infer from which was missing what the word is?
08:58:59 <shachaf> Maybe you should read The Illuminatus! Trilogy.
09:01:34 <hppavilion[1]> ...I just realized that you can put a bucket of lava into a wooden chest in minecraft
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09:37:34 <HackEgo> 2016-06-07 08:37:02.395249000+00:00
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09:51:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: in M:tG, there are German printings of two cards whose German names are identical, despite that their English names differ, and also this German name is identical to the English name of one of those cards. this was news to me. do you know this already? and were you horrified when you found out?
09:51:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: http://magiccards.info/m10/de/202.html http://magiccards.info/10e/de/290.html //magiccards.info/10e/en/290.html
10:04:51 <shachaf> oerjan: do you know anything about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)
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11:46:33 <HackEgo> grimmargorp//Þór, Grimmargorpurinn hefur sloppið! Ragnarök eru nálæg!
11:48:13 <HackEgo> impomatic//impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database.
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11:48:26 <hppavilion[1]> One of the weird things on the internet is warnings that don't make sense
11:48:29 <hppavilion[1]> "Also, be advised that we work closely with law enforcement and we report child exploitation."
11:48:56 <hppavilion[1]> That is, "PROTIP: Don't put your child porn here because we'll have to report you to the cops.
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11:53:02 <izabera> i read it as "don't put your child porn here because we got into troubles last time"
11:54:48 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But to me it seems like "Don't put it here because we aren't suited to hide it properly; google will give you some better places"
11:58:57 <izabera> i didn't actually google that
12:02:05 <izabera> does nsa even care about that?
12:02:50 <izabera> i don't actually know much of what nsa does other than supposedly spying on people
12:03:25 <izabera> that wouldn't threaten national security so i guess that's not their business
12:05:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47160&oldid=46815 * Sesshomariu * (+76) /* Examples */
12:05:48 <Phantom_Hoover> people did an impressive job of misinterpreting the snowden leaks as "the nsa is personally reading everything you do"
12:06:23 <boily> izabellora. everything can be grounds to threatening national security hth
12:07:09 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Shush, don't give the terrorists ammo you national-security-damaging heathen
12:09:40 <boily> Да здравствует партия!
12:15:53 <hppavilion[1]> "This is one of those things where if someone walks in you switch to porn cause it's easier to explain"
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12:20:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47161&oldid=47160 * Sesshomariu * (+0) /* Hello, world!(without string reversing) */
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14:13:31 * \oren\ googles how send probe Sarnus
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14:25:07 <Phantom_Hoover> it's been a while since i played ksp but it was never hard to get a few km/s of delta v into low orbit that way
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15:12:35 <HackEgo> olist 1039: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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15:44:13 <coppro> can someone please send some utf-8?
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16:03:42 <coppro> HQ plus/minus 2QB B = plus/minus B?
16:03:57 <coppro> Pe u with grave q P o y O?
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16:48:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Qwertyu63 * New user account
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16:54:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47162 * Qwertyu63 * (+1076) Created page with "This is a WIP project. Simple Lang: Simple Lang is a simple programming language designed to be easy to learn and read but hard to use. Values: There are two types of value i..."
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16:55:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47163&oldid=47162 * Qwertyu63 * (+54)
16:56:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47164&oldid=47163 * Qwertyu63 * (+178)
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16:58:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47165&oldid=47164 * Qwertyu63 * (+64)
17:18:28 <\oren\> I am undefeated by your puny UTF-8
17:19:42 <\oren\> But soon I will be without internet, because I am not taking a first-class ticket...
17:21:42 <\oren\> can I survive 12 hours without internet accesss???!?!
17:21:56 <\oren\> find out next time, on DRAGON BALL ZEEEEEE!
17:23:26 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: I built a new upper stage with three nuclear engines, and then docked it with a few large fuel tanks
17:25:04 <Phantom_Hoover> getting to jool is <2km/s, getting to sarnus shouldn't be much more
17:26:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jinhub * New user account
17:27:36 <\oren\> I plan on having it visit all the moons of Sarnus and perhaps then swing out to Urlum or something, and then maybe even return to Kerbin, or I'll send out a cruiser to rendezvous with it in interplanetary space and collec the science...
17:28:58 <\oren\> Nasa are amateurs. They should start bringing things home from Pluto.
17:30:17 <\oren\> I build all my craft with a lot of extra deltav. My Duna probe ended up visiting Eve as well.
17:31:53 <\oren\> It helps for example that my "LKO shuttle" can land on Minmus and return
17:32:43 <\oren\> don't build to spec, overbuild and then see what it can do!
17:35:52 <\oren\> real space programs can't afford to do that I suppose
17:49:40 <\oren\> Yes of cource you can visit variousplants
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17:53:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DigitoriiX * New user account
17:57:25 <\oren\> and i installed some mods that add a bunch of new planets
18:00:05 <coppro> my unicode is still borked
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18:01:39 <coppro> oh wait, different terminal emulator
18:01:44 <coppro> maybe that's it. maybe.
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19:52:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47166&oldid=47161 * Sesshomariu * (+176) /* Examples */
19:53:45 <shachaf> b_jonas: how 'bout that olist, huh
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20:00:29 <int-e> 1039 has been olisted if that's the question
20:00:54 <b_jonas> shachaf: Redcloak casts some sort of funny life saving spell on himself that I didn't know
20:01:16 <int-e> oh you're not really talking about the olist
20:01:35 <b_jonas> which is especially funny if you consider that the M:tG spells with the strange translated names are also lifesaving spells
20:01:43 <shachaf> Do they go into one door per day?
20:01:57 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, they just hide, wait, and follow the heros
20:02:17 <shachaf> int-e: You're not even in the olist list.
20:02:53 <int-e> shachaf: hence the misunderstanding... I don't care about the comic
20:03:02 <int-e> so I though "olist" means "olist"
20:03:30 <int-e> and not "latest update to oots"
20:04:15 <shachaf> Well, you're apparently interested in olist updates, even if you're not interested in the underlying comic strip.
20:04:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: hey! are you trying to overwrite bin/olistlist ?
20:05:18 <HackEgo> cat: bin/olistlist: No such file or directory
20:09:41 <izabera> https://citra-emu.org/ cool
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20:19:48 <b_jonas> ais523: I found out something about M:tG today and it sort of shocked me. you might already be aware of it
20:20:04 <b_jonas> ais523: there are German printings of two cards whose German names are identical, despite that their English names differ, and also this German name is identical to the English name of one of those cards.
20:20:28 <b_jonas> ais523: http://magiccards.info/10e/de/290.html http://magiccards.info/m10/de/202.html
20:21:24 <b_jonas> ais523: how common is it? and why are they doing it? is it just a stupid mistake?
20:21:46 <shachaf> How do you tell which card a translated card is?
20:21:47 <ais523> b_jonas: very rare but not unheard of (there are a few similar examples), and mostly it's just by mistake
20:22:01 <shachaf> Does the English name appear somewhere on it?
20:22:15 <int-e> regenerate... regeneration... poor translators!
20:22:16 <ais523> shachaf: that's actually a really interesting point
20:22:29 <ais523> expansion symbol + collector number would be the obvious way to me
20:22:35 <ais523> but I'm not sure it's applicable in 100% of cases
20:22:50 <ais523> art would be another way, and the way that most players use in practice, but that wouldn't work for promo cards
20:23:14 <shachaf> When would it not be applicable?
20:23:48 <shachaf> If I remember correctly, officially the name is the only part of a card that really matters?
20:24:02 <shachaf> People can paint over the rest of it if they want. Or something like that.
20:24:24 <ais523> shachaf: the English name is the only part that officially matters
20:24:52 <ais523> and when altering a card, I believe the rule is that you have to leave the name and mana cost visible, and the art has to depict what the card is about
20:25:18 <ais523> (this is why basic lands are the most commonly altered cards; if you alter a Forest, you just have to draw a forest, and there are a huge number of ways to do that)
20:25:19 <shachaf> But the official art rarely depicts what a card is about.
20:25:45 <ais523> yes, this is why altering is difficult
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20:25:53 <ais523> for cards that depict a story character it isn't too hard
20:26:27 <shachaf> Anyway, if you have cards with identical non-English names, it seems like it would be problematic to alter them.
20:28:15 <b_jonas> ais523: old cards don't have collector numbers, but old cards also don't have translated versions, and I'm not sure how these compare in time
20:28:41 <ais523> very old cards don't have expansion symbols
20:29:02 <shachaf> Hmm, there's a promotional card printed in Hebrew.
20:29:41 <b_jonas> ais523: why it looks strange to me is that Regenerate is from M10, so I'd have thought at that point they were paying attention to these sorts of things
20:29:57 <shachaf> http://www.trollandtoad.com/p123476.html
20:30:05 <ais523> b_jonas: I get the impression that Wizards is severely understaffed
20:30:57 <shachaf> http://magiccards.info/query?q=staff
20:31:19 <shachaf> And "Staff of the X Magus" were all terrible.
20:32:18 <shachaf> I don't even understand those cards.
20:32:21 <shachaf> "Wizards.com is down for routine server maintenance."
20:32:23 <ais523> shachaf: those are apparently intentionally bad cards made to appeal to new players
20:32:33 <ais523> they write articles about them on occasion
20:32:46 <shachaf> I think I put one in my early decks.
20:32:51 <b_jonas> shachaf: a promo card in hebrew? wow
20:32:59 <ais523> there was a previous cycle with that purpose, "whenever a player casts a red spell you gain 1 life" etc.
20:33:16 <ais523> but it turned out to be fringe playable in very centralized metagames
20:33:24 <ais523> if you were playing red and your opponent was playing a red-based burn deck
20:33:25 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, Kraken's Eye cycle. I have thos
20:33:37 <shachaf> b_jonas: http://www.snazzorama.com/magic/lang/
20:34:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think I'm the only player in my group who sometimes plays with foreign language cards, and even I have very few of them
20:34:44 <b_jonas> only about a dozen, and some of them I have already replaced by English ones
20:34:51 <zzo38> Use it if you have a lot of red cards, especially if you are not playing any white cards too
20:34:58 <ais523> in other news, I visited a site with JavaScript turned off
20:35:14 <ais523> and the only thing visible was a link to http://www.whatbrowser.org/ , which I found hilariously passive-agressive
20:35:45 <ais523> (turns out there was other text in the page, saying something like "you need a browser that supports JavaScript to view this page", but it was accidentally black on black, presumably they don't test the page with JS off very often)
20:36:05 <ais523> the irony here is that whatbrowser doesn't really work with JavaScript turned off either
20:36:11 <ais523> and thus is a very bad link to use for that purpose
20:36:39 <b_jonas> what the heck is whatbrowser?
20:37:43 <b_jonas> shachaf: wait what? that page seems to tell only how to identify the _language_ of the card from the card. how is that even useful?
20:37:52 <b_jonas> I assumed it was trying to tell how to identify what card it is
20:37:58 <b_jonas> like, the English name of the card
20:38:36 <shachaf> b_jonas: I was confused by the same thing.
20:38:52 <shachaf> b_jonas: But I just linked to it for the list of five one-off cards.
20:39:16 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't know, I'd never seen it before
20:39:18 <ais523> but I linked it earlier
20:39:47 <b_jonas> "The following five promotional cards are each printed in a language that no other cards are. From left to right, the languages are Hebrew, Arabic, Sanskrit, Classical Greek, and Latin."
20:40:00 <b_jonas> and they're not even Un-promos
20:40:19 <shachaf> Anyway we never used non-English cards.
20:40:29 <shachaf> We only used cards from booster boxes, in fact.
20:40:50 <shachaf> Because we felt like WotC wasn't making nearly enough money, I guess.
20:41:15 <b_jonas> shachaf: aren't there foreign language booster boxes? I mean, I think that's where most foreign language cards come from
20:42:04 <shachaf> But I suspect that English-speaking players who use non-English cards usually get them individually, not in boxes.
20:42:26 <b_jonas> it's very lucky there are no hungarian language cards. if there were, I'd be flooded with stupid translated cards probably.
20:43:37 <b_jonas> Munchkin has hungarian translation, but luckily it's not a collectible cg
20:43:43 <shachaf> I kind of want to get the Hebrew card.
20:43:59 <shachaf> I guess it's not even Modern-legal.
20:44:08 <shachaf> I could make a Commander deck.
20:44:36 <b_jonas> and munchkin has a card that gets a bonus against creatures whose names start with a letter "J"
20:45:25 <b_jonas> http://magiccards.info/ptc/en/17.html => yep
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21:59:17 <HackEgo> smlist kickstarter: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
21:59:49 <HackEgo> smlist 438: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
21:59:51 <HackEgo> smlist 439: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
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22:33:29 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, you're the only person on this list still in the channel
22:33:38 -!- qrf has joined.
22:34:06 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: people might be reading under another name or from the logs
22:34:06 <shachaf> But if I keep up the notifications other people might get interested.
22:34:25 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: I mean, I have some alternate nicknames highlighting me
22:34:35 <HackEgo> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
22:34:41 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: HEY! don't do that
22:34:47 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: `? smlist tells
22:34:48 <shachaf> Don't `anylist if there's no actual update.
22:34:54 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
22:34:55 <HackEgo> pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas
22:35:20 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: That one's already been listed.
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22:36:26 <HackEgo> pbflist is update notification for the Perry Bible Fellowship webcomic. http://pbfcomics.com/
22:36:50 <quintopia> does putting the number after it prevent it being sent more than once?
22:36:50 <shachaf> Why doesn't it say "smlist is ...", `learn-style?
22:37:06 <shachaf> Well, unless people read the logs.
22:37:19 <hppavilion[1]> Where can I find the amazing, god-like software used in http://xkcd.com/1690/?
22:38:07 <shachaf> If you fix it we should talk about how lists work.
22:38:16 <shachaf> Because really they ought to share code.
22:38:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: well, there's an mklist
22:38:39 <shachaf> Right, but mklist just copies.
22:38:56 <shachaf> So you can't retroactively change list code.
22:38:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: oh, you mean they should share code where you give a number and if that number was already listed for that list then it doesn't ping anyone?
22:39:10 <quintopia> or if you want something custom and manual: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/
22:39:18 <shachaf> The point is that the list code should only exist in one place in HackEgo.
22:39:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: ah, you mean good practices like code reuse
22:39:45 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: And how does it detect that I'm e.g. going through all the star wars movies and digitally replacing all of the lightsabres with regular metal swords?
22:39:47 <quintopia> b_jonas: that is what i'd like to have yes
22:39:58 <shachaf> So with the current scheme, a list might be something like 'name="$1"; shift; exec runlist "$name" "$@"'
22:40:17 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: TagTime does that, if you manually enter a tag to track that activity
22:40:27 <b_jonas> shachaf, quintopia: feel free to fix them, but I think it should be "$*" instead of "$1"
22:40:34 <b_jonas> although it probably doesn't matter
22:40:41 <b_jonas> since it's invoked with backtick usually
22:41:44 <shachaf> And then runlist would be something like 'grep -q "$2" share/listarchive/"$1" && exit; echo "$1" > share/listarchive/"$1"; tail -n+2 bin/"$1"'
22:41:56 <shachaf> Of course at that point there's no need to use this ridiculous self-modifying code scheme.
22:42:15 <b_jonas> shachaf: grep -qx probably
22:42:19 <shachaf> You can just have share/list/smlist containing usernames or something.
22:42:25 <shachaf> b_jonas: Look, that's why I said "something like".
22:42:39 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: I wrote that self-modifying thing in the first place.
22:42:56 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: as you have so astutely noted, anything less manual is AI-hard, and frankly, its existence would be terrifying
22:43:19 <b_jonas> shachaf: and you'd probably have to do something with empty or no argument
22:43:19 <shachaf> b_jonas: Also I mean 'echo "$2" >>', not 'echo "$1" >'
22:43:30 <shachaf> Look, that's why I said "something like".
22:43:54 <b_jonas> I just wonder what the semantics for that should be
22:43:57 <quintopia> is it wrong for b_jonas to suggest what space "something like" could span?
22:44:05 <shachaf> If you want to revamp lists, you should gopher it.
22:44:45 <quintopia> i don't have talent or a gopher client
22:59:19 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'for $l (glob("bin/*list")) { open$i,"<",$l or die; q[echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit]."\n" eq <$i> and print $l,"\n"; }'
22:59:21 <HackEgo> bin/aglist \ bin/bardsworthlist \ bin/ehlist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/flist \ bin/ioccccccccclist \ bin/keenlist \ bin/llist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/wrlist
22:59:36 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'for $l (glob("bin/*list")) { open$i,"<",$l or die; q[echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit]."\n" eq <$i> or print $l,"\n"; }'
22:59:37 <HackEgo> bin/danddreclist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttellllllllist \ bin/dontaskdonttelllllllist \ bin/FireFlist \ bin/list \ bin/listlist \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/testlist
22:59:44 <b_jonas> just to see what we should replace
22:59:49 <shachaf> Also I hope it's not written in Perl.
23:00:02 <b_jonas> shachaf: what's not written in perl?
23:00:28 <b_jonas> shachaf: there isn't one yet
23:00:38 <shachaf> Do you prefer future tense?
23:00:43 <shachaf> I hope it won't be written in Perl.
23:02:04 <int-e> I hope it will not have been written in Perl. (have some future perfect!)
23:03:16 <b_jonas> where do we put execuables that shouldn't be executed directly? we don't have a libexec directory
23:03:25 <b_jonas> the list replacement backend (that each list invokes) should be there
23:03:36 <shachaf> I think it's fine to put in in bin/
23:03:42 <b_jonas> shachaf: nah, bin's in the path
23:03:50 <b_jonas> this shouldn't be in the path
23:04:03 <b_jonas> I could create a directory under lib or under share
23:04:25 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
23:04:41 <int-e> oh I knew that... didn't remember though
23:04:52 <b_jonas> I think I'm the culprit of that one
23:05:07 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott kmc kmc ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull Gregor nitia
23:05:29 <shachaf> b_jonas: Is keenlist a one-time list?
23:05:39 <shachaf> We've had others, like slist.
23:05:47 <shachaf> Self-deleting is a useful feature.
23:05:48 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck.
23:05:51 <int-e> `` rm canary; keenlist
23:06:08 <int-e> . o O ( there are no one-time lists )
23:06:49 <int-e> but this one isn't self-deleting anyway
23:07:14 <shachaf> A true self-deleting list ought to touch canary as well.
23:07:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: what does canary even do?
23:07:36 <b_jonas> and what does touching canary do?
23:07:43 <int-e> oh, I should turn the order around... thanks
23:08:18 <shachaf> HackEgo won't commit your changes if canary doesn't exist.
23:08:28 <int-e> the canary detects that the coal mine is running low on oxygen
23:08:49 <b_jonas> int-e: should be called davy-lamp then
23:09:13 <int-e> mostly it's a basic protection against rm -rf / kind of stuff
23:09:49 <b_jonas> int-e: but how does touching help? ah... right
23:10:06 <int-e> shachaf brought up touching
23:10:34 <int-e> which means I should rm it afterwards... or perhaps mv it away so that making it a directory doesn't help either... hmmmmmmm
23:10:49 <b_jonas> int-e: rm;mkdir it, that's probably safer
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23:11:15 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000000000 0 39 Jun 7 22:10 canary
23:12:32 <int-e> b_jonas: I want it to be gone.
23:12:38 <shachaf> I've been trying to think of ways to delete canary.
23:12:40 <int-e> b_jonas: shachaf is the one who wanted to create it
23:12:59 <b_jonas> ``` rm canary && mkdir canary
23:13:03 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `canary': Is a directory
23:13:14 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000000000 0 4096 Jun 7 22:12 canary
23:13:22 <shachaf> Thanks for breaking revert.
23:13:34 <b_jonas> ``` rmdir canary && touch canary
23:13:36 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `canary': No such file or directory
23:13:41 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
23:14:21 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
23:14:30 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000000000 0 0 Jun 7 22:13 canary
23:14:48 <HackEgo> File: `canary' \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 672260 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 500000000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-06-07 22:13:53.000000000000000 +000000000 \ Modify: 2016-06-07 22:13:52.00000000000000000000 +00000000 \ Change:
23:15:23 <int-e> `` ls -la /dev/urandom
23:15:24 <HackEgo> crw-rw-rw- 1 0 0 1, 9 Jan 29 2014 /dev/urandom
23:16:35 <int-e> `` ls -lart | tail -n1
23:16:38 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 7 22:16 ..
23:16:51 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
23:17:42 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sorry: not found
23:18:01 <fungot> b_jonas: i told haskell to print the type in any binding form. k is bound to some initialization at loadtime
23:18:05 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
23:18:15 <b_jonas> fungot: with monotype restriction?
23:18:34 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/shavention//s/\*list, //
23:18:38 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
23:18:44 <shachaf> b_jonas: now you have to reinvent lists hth
23:19:09 <shachaf> Taneb: Did you invent shaving?
23:19:22 <HackEgo> 1278) <Taneb> Morning <shachaf> G'daneb <shachaf> invent anything good overnight? <Taneb> I don't know yet, I haven't read the logs
23:19:44 <Taneb> shachaf, I did not invent shaving, otherwise I'd be better at it
23:20:12 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Tue Jun 07 23:20:11
23:20:37 <shachaf> Taneb: Sometimes the first person to do something is the worst at it.
23:20:49 <shachaf> Since everyone else is standing on the shoulders of giant Tanebs.
23:21:13 <lambdabot> *** "lawyer" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
23:21:13 <lambdabot> LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.
23:21:22 <int-e> why the extra newline...
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23:23:45 <b_jonas> `? automatic squirrel feeder
23:23:49 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them.
23:25:01 <int-e> who are the squirrels fed to?
23:27:06 <b_jonas> `perl -e chdir "wisdom" or die; for $w (map {glob} qw"* */* */*/*") { if (open my$i,"<",$w) { local $/; my$t=<$i>; $t=~/invent/ai && $t=~/\btaneb/ai and print "|$w "; } }
23:27:10 <HackEgo> |automatic squirrel feeder |bbc |bdsm |bogosort |chu space |ci |costume |d-module |deniability |fundamental theorem of taneb |go |histogram |nih |nooodle |persistence |progres |real |shavention |stephen wolfram |tanebvention |tetris |the reals |the torus |the universe |this sentence |torus |universe |weetoflake |wolfram
23:27:13 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
23:27:19 <HackEgo> Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia.
23:27:26 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
23:27:27 <int-e> `learn English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
23:27:34 <HackEgo> Costumes are used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them.
23:27:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'english': English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
23:27:48 <HackEgo> NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb.
23:27:53 <b_jonas> `? fundamental theorem of taneb
23:27:55 <HackEgo> The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent.
23:28:01 <HackEgo> Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
23:28:03 <boily> int-e: the squirrels are fed to the automats hth.
23:28:28 <HackEgo> A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention.
23:28:32 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented it.
23:28:40 <int-e> boily: darn. I was picturing things of nightmares... like the teletubbies.
23:28:40 <HackEgo> The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994.
23:29:38 <HackEgo> A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size.
23:30:06 <int-e> ... it's the opposite of a Truth algebra.
23:30:12 <b_jonas> did taneb invent lie algebras?
23:30:26 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
23:30:36 <Taneb> b_jonas, this time next year I'll have invented Lie algebras
23:30:40 <int-e> hmm. Taneb vented.
23:32:11 <boily> int-e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qvCQv-CDr4
23:33:26 <int-e> Now I want to connect venture capital, venting (which has to do with hot air), bubbles, and stock market bubble in partiuclar.
23:37:03 <b_jonas> ``` >>wisdom/it echo -n "Taneb invented it. "
23:38:37 <HackEgo> submarine jousting? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:38:45 <b_jonas> ^ should this have a wisomd entry? or is it a better joke unexplained?
23:39:04 <b_jonas> um, I mean, as an in-joke whose explanation we don't reveal
23:39:32 <b_jonas> (though the diligent can find it if they search the channel logs carefully)
23:39:59 <HackEgo> Lambek's lemma? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:40:06 <boily> `le/rn submarine jousting/This is unexplainable.
23:40:11 <HackEgo> Learned «submarine jousting»
23:40:14 <b_jonas> I've no idea what Lambek's lemma is though
23:40:54 <boily> Taneb: did you tanebvent lambek?
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23:41:07 <b_jonas> boily: um, could you put that in a format where it has "submarine jousting", like "submarine jousting is unexplainable"?
23:41:40 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
23:41:41 <boily> `le/rn submarine jousting/submarine jousting is unexplainable.
23:41:44 <HackEgo> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
23:41:46 <HackEgo> Relearned «submarine jousting»
23:42:29 <HackEgo> Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
23:46:20 <zzo38> "Evil" is how you write "live" backward.
23:47:57 <boily> oerjan lives far away in the Land of the Frost Giants. he's probably a unique monster himself, reachable through a long, arduous sidequesr.
23:49:28 <zzo38> I think I figured out the problem with my NTSC decoder and fixed it now.
23:53:11 <quintopia> boily: oerjan is not actually reachable by any means, even visiting Niflheim in person
23:53:49 <quintopia> you can only cast magical IRC spells in his direction and hope some of them are overheard from such a distance
23:55:02 <quintopia> so here comes that weekend where you're free and i'm not
23:55:11 <quintopia> i'm p much never free weekends anymore!
23:55:14 * boily swings his mapole in the Summoning Dance. «y'où'c'que t'es rendu?»
23:55:37 <quintopia> if you teleport to philadelphia you might find me
23:56:26 <boily> you're in philly now? what is the nearest airport?
23:59:03 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, a googolplex is equivalent to ten trillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrest
23:59:03 <hppavilion[1]> rigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentilliduotrigintatrecentillion