00:00:33 <shachaf> Oh, I should've known "coily".
00:01:35 <oerjan> oh apparently it means "hello" as well, it's just not on that list.
00:02:13 <boily> yeah, it covers everything helloy.
00:02:28 <shachaf> boily: you can do better than that
00:03:05 <shachaf> boily: for example look up the word for "dawn" hth
00:03:06 -!- Kaynato has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:03:37 <boily> . o O ( hmm... IRC doesn't seem to support RTL... )
00:03:41 <shachaf> boily: that certainly introduced an extra letter
00:04:26 <shachaf> `learn Rho is the Greek letter that represents the mind, and thus psychology is called rho science. Today's reductionists consider the mind obsolete, and prefer to study new rho science.
00:04:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'rho': Rho is the Greek letter that represents the mind, and thus psychology is called rho science. Today's reductionists consider the mind obsolete, and prefer to study new rho science.
00:04:43 <oerjan> boily: i think that's entirely dependent of your client setup.
00:04:51 <shachaf> I'm sure oerjan can make that work better.
00:05:07 -!- Kaynato has joined.
00:06:28 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
00:06:44 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
00:07:04 <shachaf> boily is a meta rho logist?
00:07:15 <boily> `slwd shachaf//s#^shachaf#Shachaf of the Dawn#
00:07:18 <HackEgo> wisdom/shachaf//Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
00:07:40 * boily ceremoniously mapoles shachaf. 1.0 shachaf.
00:07:43 <quintopia> i think the greek word for psychchology was...ψυχολογία
00:15:44 -!- tromp_ has joined.
00:16:21 * oerjan spots a shachaf luxon above.
00:18:06 <shachaf> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=luxon
00:18:38 <shachaf> Taneb: Might I add that Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is an excellent name?
00:18:50 <Akaibu> anyone want to give this a try? matching are the top 10k passwords, non matching is 1k randomly gen'ed "passwords" between 5-10 alphanumeric http://regex.alf.nu/2fdfc932f94406a31682ca4f25b3588cb4ec2f66
00:19:08 <oerjan> `learn Smell is a sense, which is particularly strong in old factory sites.
00:19:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'smell': Smell is a sense, which is particularly strong in old factory sites.
00:19:33 <oerjan> that's where the rho led me, and i had to follow it.
00:20:09 <quintopia> `learn Women smell better than men. (See also: 'smell')
00:20:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'women': Women smell better than men. (See also: 'smell')
00:21:10 <shachaf> it doesn't lead you to trhondheim?
00:21:24 <shachaf> Akaibu: How many points do I aim for?
00:21:27 <oerjan> how can it, i'm already there
00:21:49 <oerjan> although trondheim _is_ good at new rho science, we got a nobel prize after all
00:21:56 <Akaibu> i'll be blunt i just plugged in the word list of http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/73435/random-passwords-vs-common-passwords into the site
00:22:11 <Akaibu> and with the shortest soultion there i got 97401 points
00:22:47 -!- zgrep_the_Slow has changed nick to zgrep.
00:22:48 <shachaf> If you press esc in the input field, your solution disappears.
00:22:53 <shachaf> And you can't undo to get it back,
00:23:05 <shachaf> So I definitely won't be trying again.
00:24:36 <Akaibu> shachaf: i can recover it
00:25:10 <shachaf> Taneb: http://www.vandoorn.talktalk.net/esoteric/ says "Read Fast" instead of "Real Fast" in one place.
00:26:19 <shachaf> @tell Taneb see tunes.org logs at 2016-07-14 at 16:25 hth
00:27:16 <shachaf> I'm not sure why I did that.
00:27:55 <shachaf> `? real fast nora's hair salon 3: shear disaster download
00:27:57 <HackEgo> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there.
00:30:37 <boily> @ask Taneb * poke poke poke * you still alive?
00:39:37 <adu> where is hppavilion?
00:40:06 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless.
00:40:10 <adu> yes, hppavilion[1]
00:40:23 <adu> where is hppavilion[1]?
00:40:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/hppavilion1:higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
00:41:07 <shachaf> that's a scow double dactyl
00:41:23 <adu> has anyone seen hppavilion[1]?
00:41:39 <adu> did hppavilion[1] die?
00:44:01 <oerjan> he's alaskan, a grizzly or polar bear probably got him.
00:46:12 <shachaf> polar bears are typically found in eastern europe hth
00:46:31 <oerjan> i don't think so, shachaf
00:46:56 <oerjan> i think you're confusing polar and polish.
00:47:22 <oerjan> the pun only works with the noun.
00:47:26 <shachaf> thanks for clearing that up
00:48:35 <shachaf> polar bears are found in the arctic circle
00:48:40 <shachaf> that's why they're called polar
00:48:53 <adu> oerjan: oh, does Alaska have that thing that like "night" but it lasts 6 months?
00:49:15 <shachaf> copolar bears live in antarctica
00:49:18 <oerjan> adu: technically only the poles strictly have that.
00:49:46 <shachaf> oerjan: i think that weather would be considered unusual in eastern europe hth
00:50:08 <oerjan> no, i'm pretty sure they have weather there too
00:50:46 <oerjan> also i don't think midnight sun counts as weather per se.
00:50:59 <prooftechnique> adu: Sweden has that, kind of. Mainly it's that day is only a few hours long. But then in the summer the sun never goes down
00:51:34 <shachaf> Well, if they *just* had long nights, no one would live there.
00:51:38 <shachaf> they had to sweden the deal
00:52:20 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rimshot: not found
00:54:42 <oerjan> technically norway and alaska are about the same latitude.
00:54:51 <oerjan> which means some parts have it, some don't.
00:56:53 <oerjan> and the parts which do are not very heavily populated.
00:57:24 <oerjan> probably even more so in alaska.
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01:25:20 * oerjan wonders if adu and hppavilion[1] have entered the quintopia/boily zone
01:30:52 <boily> quintopia: the courging is on standby...
01:31:24 * boily will call it a night. can't focus...
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01:47:49 <izabera> `` cut -b -3,5,7-9,11- <<< qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm # this prints bytes 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 and 11 to end of line
01:48:09 <izabera> how do i do that efficiently?
01:50:41 <izabera> yes but i'm writing cut for that inutility thing
01:51:15 <Sgeo> Elixir keeps impressing me
01:51:39 <Sgeo> In surprising ways. It has lenses.
01:52:10 <shachaf> Keep a bunch of non-overlapping intervals for the parts of the file you care about, and either read or skip to the next boundary?
01:52:23 <Sgeo> (Albeit it doesn't call them lenses, and defining them is a bit odd, and they also may have an additional capability that is like half of a prism which makes me go wtf)
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01:55:14 <oerjan> . o O ( PinealGlandOptic may be missing from lens )
01:55:40 <oerjan> Sgeo: does elixir have PinealGlandOptics twh
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02:00:00 <izabera> making them non overlap is annoying :(
02:00:16 <shachaf> oerjan: what does the winchester hermit have to do with it
02:02:33 <shachaf> @google union of intervals algorithm
02:02:34 <lambdabot> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1034802/union-of-intervals
02:02:34 <lambdabot> Title: Union of intervals - Stack Overflow
02:02:40 <shachaf> izabera: try something like that maybe
02:03:08 <izabera> ok i was doing something like that
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02:33:44 <tswett> You've got a partially ordered set. Initially, every element of the set is labeled with 0.
02:34:16 <tswett> There's an algorithm you can perform on this set.
02:34:50 <tswett> Actually, scratch the "initially all 0" bit. They're all labeled with integers, but not necessary 0.
02:35:52 <tswett> Step 1: identify all pairs of two comparable elements which are labeled with the same number. Step 2: if no pairs were identified in step 1, stop. Step 3: for each pair identified in step 1, increase the label of the greater element by 1, and decrease the label of the lesser element by 1. Step 4: return to step 1.
02:36:31 <tswett> It's an odd kind of sorting algorithm, I suppose.
02:37:13 <tswett> Is there a shortcut for finding the result of this algorithm, which will give you the result faster than just naively evaluating the algorithm would?
02:39:20 <oerjan> hm does that necessarily sort
02:40:03 <tswett> If all elements initially have different labels, the algorithm does nothing.
02:40:15 <oerjan> i mean, even if you start with all 0.
02:40:53 <oerjan> also, an element in step 3 can be part of more than one pair, possibly on different sides.
02:41:10 <tswett> I think no. Suppose the set is a > b, a > c, a > d, e > a.
02:41:26 <tswett> Then after one iteration, a goes to 2, e goes to 1, b-d go to -1, and the algorithm stops.
02:41:42 <tswett> a ends up with a higher label than e even though it's lesser.
02:42:00 <tswett> No; its label is increased 3 times and decreased once.
02:42:54 <oerjan> no idea on your main question.
02:43:57 <tswett> There's probably no easy way, since it's a somewhat complex and arbitrary algorithm.
02:44:06 <tswett> Perhaps one could even make a programming language out of it.
02:44:15 <oerjan> your task shall be to prove this PSPACE-complete hth
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02:45:07 <oerjan> actually, -hard, it's obviously not a decision problem.
02:46:47 <oerjan> actually, there's probably some number that's increasing at each step, so not that hard.
02:47:26 <izabera> the number of steps so far is increasing at each step!
02:48:16 <tswett> Is the algorithm guaranteed to terminate?
02:48:40 <tswett> The label of a maximal element never decreases and the label of a minimal element never increases. So the spread never decreases.
02:48:41 <alercah> I think it would need a cycle in the order to go indefinitely
02:49:14 <tswett> If the spread increases indefinitely, then the size of the smallest gap tends to infinity.
02:49:21 <oerjan> i think the "spread" is the kind of number i was thinking of.
02:49:44 <alercah> if spread is the difference between highest and lowest numbers, it's not strictly increasing
02:49:51 <tswett> If the spread does not increase indefinitely, the whole thing must cycle.
02:49:54 <oerjan> obviously there's a maximal possible gap.
02:51:05 <tswett> Hm, something just occurred to me.
02:51:35 <tswett> Wait, something else just occurred to me.
02:51:46 <tswett> Let me go back to the first thing.
02:52:00 <tswett> You could think of this as "moving tokens" between elements. Tokens only ever move from lesser elements to greater elements.
02:52:08 <oerjan> in order to increase an element, another element must be decreased, and there is a maximal amount for each.
02:52:23 <oerjan> and they had to be equal to start with.
02:52:29 <alercah> yeah so that guarantees termination
02:52:44 <alercah> oh wait, not on its own it doesn't
02:53:25 <tswett> And they never move "with the gradient".
02:53:38 <alercah> since there's an infinite supply
02:53:47 <alercah> but for one element to decrease indefinitely
02:54:04 <alercah> it must give charge to another element of the same charge
02:54:27 <alercah> so that element must decrease indefinitely, and have two other infinitely decreasing elements to give it charge
02:54:46 <alercah> (or some combination of other elements which give it charge faster than the first one takes it, anyway)
02:54:53 <tswett> Technically, I never said that the set must be finite. But I was thinking it all along.
02:54:58 <alercah> this turns into an infinite regression
02:55:11 <alercah> you might be able to concoct something weird with an infinite poset
02:55:20 <alercah> certainly it wouldn't necessarily terminate
02:55:37 <alercah> just label each natural number with itself and set the charge of 0 to 1
02:55:51 <alercah> then each iteration just moves the excess charge to the next number
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03:01:08 <tswett> The algorithm isn't defined if an element has infinitely many elements which are greater or less than it.
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03:14:44 * oerjan got the hydra with just 555 cuts
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04:43:06 <izabera> https://arin.ga/CuwF1d/raw is there any obvious problem with this? <.<
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05:36:39 <zzo38> Because I don't know
05:40:59 <oerjan> why do you think that makes no sense.
05:41:31 <Cale> We were discussing you, not me.
05:42:15 <zzo38> Cale: I believe you, but why did you answer then?
05:42:30 <Cale> Oh... but why did me answer then?
05:48:27 <Anarchokawaii> because the statement "i don't know?" sounds like an introspective question
05:49:54 <zzo38> What does "introspective question" mean?
05:50:40 <Sgeo> "I don't know?" seems like you don't know if you don't know.
05:51:24 <zzo38> O, is that what it means?
05:52:48 * Sgeo has probably done the unhelpful question mark at points
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05:54:28 <oerjan> all question marks are helpful, so there?
05:55:03 <oerjan> an object without attributes sounds like something for the other kind of #esoteric.
05:55:28 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that doesn't exist. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
05:55:33 <oerjan> hm maybe not the right one
05:55:37 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
05:55:48 <Cale> A featureless blob?
05:56:49 <Sgeo> It would make more sense if the first part was "If a struct with functions is an object"
05:57:25 <izabera> why does that statement end with a question mark
05:57:39 <Sgeo> Because I'm not sure how much I think that
05:57:52 <Sgeo> So I'm questioning whether it's what I think
05:58:15 <Sgeo> why do you think that makes no sense.
05:58:30 <zzo38> Why do you think no sense?
05:58:53 <Cale> We were discussing you, not me.
05:59:32 <Cale> This channel is nothing but chat bots talking to each other endlessly
06:00:25 <Anarchokawaii> imagine an object oriented language where their is objects with methods but no functions outside objects and no attributes but variables outside objects and no subroutines besides methods
06:01:20 <Sgeo> I would call such an object a stateless "module", because there's no point to an object with no data attached.
06:01:27 <Sgeo> Other than to organize functions
06:01:39 <Sgeo> If I'm understanding you properly, and excluding stuff like let-over-lambda trickery
06:02:18 <hppavilion[1]> If there was ever a year for a third party to win the election, this is that year
06:02:53 <Anarchokawaii> if their is ever a year for glorious revolution this is the year
06:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> Anarchokawaii: Want to help me overthrow the US government?
06:03:17 <hppavilion[1]> Alternatively, I might just have to leave the county
06:03:20 * Sgeo actually kind of likes Hillary as President
06:03:52 <hppavilion[1]> Like, I hate when people say "If X wins the election, I'm moving to [Canada|England|Russia|China|ISIS]"
06:04:38 <hppavilion[1]> Trump is an abomination before god, and Hillary seems a little disturbing AND plays the gender card too much
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06:06:15 <hppavilion[1]> Like, for me, it's not "If x wins the election I'm moving out" so much as "If any of the major candidates wins the election I'm moving out"
06:07:11 <hppavilion[1]> Hopefully, something bizarre will happen and Bernie will be nominated instead of Hillary (many of the states she won she only won because of already-bizarre and broken rules)
06:07:47 <pikhq> It would take something really weird for Bernie to get nominated, and there is *no way* he's running third party.
06:08:20 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Even if he did run third party, is would be unlikely for him to win third party
06:08:41 <hppavilion[1]> (Has third party EVER won, barring third parties that were actively becoming first or second party?)
06:08:50 <pikhq> He'd be splitting the Dem vote.
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06:11:31 <Anarchokawaii> hilary clinton was on the board of directors of walmart
06:12:32 <Anarchokawaii> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/31/clinton-remained-silent-a_n_84246.html
06:13:07 * pikhq isn't exactly pleased by Hillary, but of the likely candidates she's definitely preferable.
06:14:04 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Hillary is definitely the best option out of the major ones
06:14:19 <hppavilion[1]> (Translation: Hillary is better than Trump, but that's not really an accomplishment)
06:14:32 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, I really would love to see Trump as president
06:14:43 <hppavilion[1]> But only in the Seth Meyers Chicago President scenario
06:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> Anarchokawaii: Lewinski certainly took that advice to heart
06:19:11 <hppavilion[1]> Sure, the US should probably have had a female president by now (barring: Edith Wilson, possibly), but we shouldn't elect a woman solely to get that; we should elect a woman because her policies are something we want, and her reproductive organs are just a cool afterthought to the election
06:19:30 <hppavilion[1]> "Hey, does this make her the first woman president?" "Oh yeah, I think it does, cool!"
06:21:18 <pikhq> It's not as though that's the only reason people are voting for her though.
06:21:33 <pikhq> Remember, many people genuinely *like* the Clintons.
06:22:49 <hppavilion[1]> I'm also not a fan of Bill Clinton, because he made the policy that says if you have ever been convicted of a felony- no matter how minor, no matter if you served your time and changed- you can't get access to public housing (or numerous other government benefits, IIRC)
06:27:22 <hppavilion[1]> Has anyone actually attempted to realize the title text of https://xkcd.com/856/?
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08:28:42 <Taneb> A web page isn't loading
08:30:59 <Taneb> @tell shachaf I no longer update that one, https://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/esolangs.html is canonical
08:31:11 <Taneb> @tell boily I'm fairly sure I'm alive
08:32:08 <shachaf> @tell Taneb ok, but it's the third result in https://encrypted.google.com/search?q="real+fast+nora's+hair+salon+3:+shear+disaster+download"
08:32:20 <shachaf> @tell Taneb maybe you should add a redirect or something
08:32:40 <Taneb> @tell shachaf that might be a good idea
08:32:46 <lambdabot> Taneb said 5s ago: that might be a good idea
08:32:55 <shachaf> I'm right here, you don't need to tell lambdabot to tell me things.
08:33:20 <Taneb> My mouse seems to have stopped working
08:33:41 <shachaf> I mean, sure, technically you need to.
08:33:46 <shachaf> But you don't need to need to.
08:35:57 <shachaf> Taneb: when are you visiting north america again?
08:36:09 <Taneb> Sometime after August
08:36:42 <shachaf> Do you have an upper bound?
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08:39:21 <Taneb> No, but I do have a Rubik's cube
08:41:40 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
08:41:51 <Taneb> I don't think esolangs count as tanebventions
08:42:12 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/sub/the/Fueue, the/
08:42:13 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 11: unknown option to `s'
08:42:20 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/the/Fueue, the/
08:42:26 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
08:42:29 <shachaf> Why not? Because you actually invented them?
08:42:45 <Taneb> Because they're more like pieces of art
08:43:18 <shachaf> I can't believe D-modules are gone from Tanebventions.
08:43:24 <shachaf> They were the centerpiece.
08:43:32 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
08:43:55 <shachaf> And it ruined the whole meter (or is it metre?) of the wisdom entry.
08:44:04 <shachaf> I previously had it set to music, in my head.
08:44:35 <shachaf> How quickly can you solve your Rubik's cube?
08:45:30 <Taneb> My best is 1 minute 40
08:45:59 <shachaf> I think I used to solve in around 2 minutes.
08:46:09 <shachaf> That was over a decade ago, of course.
08:46:21 <shachaf> When oerjan roamed the Earth.
08:46:36 <shachaf> (I guess he trondheims the Earth now.)
08:46:43 <shachaf> I'm not sure I even remember how to solve it now.
08:46:53 <shachaf> I probably could figure it out.
08:51:41 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events includes, towards the very end, actual legit predictions
08:52:06 <shachaf> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future
08:52:12 <shachaf> I wouldn't call those "dates" exactly.
08:54:01 <Taneb> shachaf, just did it in 1:55
08:54:36 <shachaf> Taneb: do you still want magic: the gathering jams
08:54:37 <hppavilion[1]> I'm surprised it doesn't include the day we past the Point-Of-No-Return for expenditure of resources and destruction of planetary integrity
08:55:21 <shachaf> That link I posted is pretty depressing.
08:55:22 <Taneb> shachaf, can you make M:tG into jam?
08:55:46 <Taneb> Wouldn't you need to add pectin?
08:57:19 <hppavilion[1]> The years from 1 to 99 will henceforth be known as the "0th century"
08:57:37 <hppavilion[1]> And all subsequent centuries will be calculated using all but the last 2 digits
08:58:59 <Taneb> I think you might find it hard to gain adoption for your idea, hppavilion[1]
08:59:37 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia often mixes them in the same paragraph, which leads to confusion
09:00:23 <hppavilion[1]> Imagine: "In 1604, a manuscript quoting a late 16th-century physician..."
09:02:09 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, the world is definitely not going to end this year
09:02:47 <shachaf> And people are elitist about it, too.
09:03:03 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], not many words rhyme with "sixteen"
09:03:04 <shachaf> They learned that "xth century" means "the century whose first two digits are x-1"
09:03:28 <shachaf> And now they look down on anyone who forgets that or finds it difficult to do in the middle of a conversation about something else.
09:07:37 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, just because you're a circle means you're better than everybody else.
09:08:10 <hppavilion[1]> I just sent a message to Trump's campaign and gave him some new crazy shit to say. I hope someone reads it and passes it up xD
09:09:25 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/rights-exempt/nat-geo-staff-graphics-illustrations/2016/07/juno/01-juno.ngsversion.1467724642813.gif
09:09:34 <shachaf> you're really not a fan of your capital city, huh
09:10:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Not particularly, and it's going to get worse in November (or January, I guess)
09:10:36 <shachaf> you can't even spell it right
09:12:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Did I spell something wrong? You're freaking me out
09:26:03 <HackEgo> 2016-07-15 08:26:02.086582000+00:00
09:31:11 <myname> good morning to you, too
09:38:03 <fizzie> Finnish doesn't use "Nth century", we use something that's a bit akin to e.g. "1800s", "1900s" and so on.
09:39:46 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, that's much easier than the crazy measurement units people use here, where the amount of meat you ask can be eg. 20 decagrams, 40 decagrams, or half a kilo, all measured in whatever unit gives the shortest pronunciation
09:40:42 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: Well, we never use the "Nth century" form.
09:40:58 <fizzie> Except Google Translate apparently does, if you ask for English-to-Finnish. But it shouldn't.
09:41:10 <b_jonas> and the scales print slips saying eg. "200 g", "400 g", "500 g" because the crazy units are no longer shorter in writing
09:43:26 <myname> is 200 such a long word in relation to 20?
09:43:45 <myname> also, where is "here"?
09:44:59 <b_jonas> myname: well no, I guess "400 grams" would actually be shorter than "40 decagrams"
09:45:05 <b_jonas> so it's not strictly the shortest version
09:45:26 <int-e> would you say "40 decas"?
09:46:30 <int-e> (here we use "kilo" for "kilogram" when shopping... so why not do the same for decagrams (a unit, that fortunately, isn't fashionable here))
09:48:13 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, and to complicate the issue, depending on the sentence it may be in two different cases, which also affects which one is shorter, by one syllable
09:49:05 <myname> b_jonas: where is "here"?
09:51:01 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: another compared to what? there was one yesterday evening
09:52:04 <hppavilion[1]> I saw a logo with the French flag in it on... a site
09:52:52 <hppavilion[1]> (I initially thought Paris, but it felt like it couldn't be Paris because it was way too recent)
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12:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/4rwwqh/what_if_the_united_states_had_made_the_mistake_of/ seems to be doing well
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12:24:58 <adu> hppavilion[1]: hey
12:25:18 <adu> hppavilion[1]: what is a quinboily cycle?
12:25:35 <hppavilion[1]> Because earlier today I got online just before you logged off
12:27:02 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I haven't seen you in at least a month
12:29:15 <adu> what's new?
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13:12:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Flok * New user account
13:13:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48887&oldid=47344 * Flok * (+253) /* Optimizing implementations */
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14:10:37 <hppavilion[1]> To describe living in the first world, but in the shitty part (e.g. you're a black ex-con)
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14:27:00 <adu> hppavilion[1]: the way I was tought was that 1st world = Americas + Europe, 2nd world = Asia (e.g. Russia, China), and 3rd world = Africa
14:27:47 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Technically, the 1/2/3 comes from first world = U.S. and allies, 2nd world = USSR and allies, 3rd world = neutral
14:28:36 <adu> well, then my teacher was dumb
14:30:12 <hppavilion[1]> But now, 1st world is developed countries and 3rd world is shitty countries
14:31:58 <gamemanj> ...that's just plain confusing. My guesses were: Britain? Spain? Turkey? Alternate universes where Mirai Nikki is streamed to TVs to show what will happen to the world if the omnipotent government falls?
14:33:06 <adu> gamemanj: the 2nd dissappeared when the USSR did
14:35:18 <adu> Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик
14:36:04 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: Russian or Serbian? I'm still not convinced that "cyrillic" is a single script other than for political and historical reasons.
14:36:39 <adu> b_jonas: Latin is a script
14:37:04 <adu> b_jonas: almost every european language is written in Latin
14:38:06 <b_jonas> adu: Latin is a script, including even the extra-high version the Vietnamese language uses, because in a Hungarian text people use the original spelling of any proper nouns if its original spelling is in the Latin script, but transcribe it by pronunciation instead if it's not in the Latin script. That is my criterion for considering something a single script.
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14:38:47 <b_jonas> Russian text typically transcribes Serbian or Macedonian names, rather than using the original form, because it's not really the same script.
14:40:29 <b_jonas> The two are just treated the same script for some historical reasons (probably originally political), and it's very impractical to change that now, because there are shittons of text from both script encoded in the overlapping set of unicode characters, and every software expects those characters and uses different fonts for them depending on the language.
14:41:03 <adu> Vietnamese isn't written in Latin
14:41:37 <b_jonas> there used to be a kanji script for it, but it's barely used now
14:41:55 <adu> Vietnamese can be written in Latin, just as any syllables can, but Vietnamese should be written in Han/Kanji
14:42:14 <b_jonas> adu: yes, and Serbian can also be written in two different scripts... it's complicated
14:42:38 <b_jonas> I don't care what it *should* be written in, but it's very often written in Latin script
14:45:39 <b_jonas> Hmm, xkcd phone 4 is better than xkcd phone 3, because in xkcd phone 4, battery is included
14:48:14 <fizzie> 12 headphone jacks sounds like quite a lot.
14:48:36 <fizzie> (And why is it in groups of 5/2/5? Design reasons?)
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14:52:25 <b_jonas> gamemanj: no, I think it's behind plexiglass so it doesn't, unless the screen breaks
14:52:59 <gamemanj> uh, the battery is non-rechargable???
14:53:15 <b_jonas> That'd be a good feature actually, then people wouldn't buy the too expensive phones that they can't afford to replace when the display breaks and keep using with a broken display.
14:53:55 <gamemanj> or at least, it will be in about 5 seconds
14:55:04 <gamemanj> also, the headphone jacks are probably to run some sort of super laser system
14:55:55 <gamemanj> ...unless you have any better ideas?
15:14:05 <zzo38> Use for recording on a tape
15:19:47 <b_jonas> Well, 3 headphone jacks are useful so you don't have to disconnect the speaker while you're copying a game from one casette to another easily.
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15:23:07 <zzo38> If you have external tape recorder you will need only those to copy a tape, but if the tape stores digital data then maybe it will be useful to go through a computer first in order to reencode the data to avoid lossiness, maybe
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15:23:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: that, and also the computer can find the start and end of the file more easily than you can through hearing
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15:24:19 <zzo38> Yes, if you do not want to copy the entire tape.
15:24:38 <gamemanj> Also, the computer can verify the data is OK.
15:25:01 <gamemanj> (And of course, while you are doing this, you can have 5.1-channel music going on to pass the time.)
15:25:11 <b_jonas> gamemanj: barely. the parity bits maybe. I don't think there's any more advanced error-correcting code on the casettes. they're not CD-rom.
15:25:36 <b_jonas> gamemanj: ah yes, true! you wear 5.1 sided headphones for that and listen with your 5.1 ears
15:25:52 <b_jonas> and watch the 6D movie on the screen
15:25:53 <gamemanj> (actually it would probably involve a compass)
15:26:38 <gamemanj> (I'm not actually sure what the purpose of 5.1 is, really)
15:27:20 <b_jonas> what I don't understand is, does this have an internal modem, and if so, where do you plug in the TP telephone cable, otherwise where do you plug in the serial cable?
15:27:37 <gamemanj> There's a parallel port on the bottom, so...
15:27:46 <gamemanj> you could probably find some way of converting serial to parallel
15:27:58 <gamemanj> though, that port does imply the phone is REALLY big
15:28:35 <b_jonas> maybe you need an USB modem
15:28:45 <b_jonas> and plug it in the USB E port
15:28:53 <gamemanj> Actually I don't see a USB port on it
15:29:02 <b_jonas> yes, the USB port is on xkcd phone 3
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15:32:02 <int-e> pity that the onboard cloud doesn't look like a cloud
15:32:32 <gamemanj> maybe it's a reference to the magic smoke
15:33:54 <int-e> but meh, another xkcd phone
15:34:31 <gamemanj> I.E. the stuff that pops out when you ![-]++++[->++++<]>[-<+++++>]-----.--.+++.. a chip
15:36:38 <gamemanj> ...that was meant to be fake random terminal noise, but for some reason I got bored and decided to write brainfuck instead. And I got it wrong, too...
15:37:02 <b_jonas> gamemanj: why is it wrong? it looks right except it's all uppercase
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15:37:14 <gamemanj> b_jonas: I see you added the missing '<'?
15:45:26 <gamemanj> as an experiment in how simple a bytebytejump could be hardware-wise... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/minibp.circ
15:51:14 <zzo38> I don't have Logisim in my computer
15:51:27 <zzo38> Can you make the PNG of it?
15:53:10 <zzo38> Yes, I have 7-Zip. But shouldn't just the PNG be OK?
15:53:29 <gamemanj> One main one, and two sub-circuits
15:54:13 <gamemanj> because as messy as it is I did try to modularize it a bit...
15:54:15 <gamemanj> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/minibp/data.zip
15:56:09 <zzo38> In additon to 7-Zip of course I also have the standard UNIX utilities (such as tar), and also har (which I wrote by myself), and gzip (which also is included with this computer)
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15:56:53 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/prog/har.c
15:57:20 <zzo38> It is used to deal with Hamster archives
15:57:30 <zzo38> (Other programs exist but they aren't very good)
15:57:48 <gamemanj> I'm not even sure what byte order is being used in this...
15:58:00 <gamemanj> I'm guessing that's the format's fault?
15:58:08 <zzo38> Yes it is the format's fault.
15:58:18 <zzo38> But, the byte order is the PDP byte order.
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15:59:30 <zzo38> (It is not a very good byte order, but that is how Hamster archive works.)
15:59:38 <gamemanj> That byte order would probably break most C applications nowadays :)
15:59:52 <gamemanj> they support little-endian, they support big-endian, but I bet they don't support PDP-endian
16:00:52 <zzo38> You can easily implement any of those three ways in a C code though, independently of the native endian of the computer.
16:01:24 <zzo38> Such thing is needed anyways because it is different for different file formats and protocols. (Many file formats and network protocols use big-endian.)
16:02:34 <gamemanj> I'm pretty sure some people fread into a struct buffer and then switch the ints around, which is fine for the standard endians, but not good if the computer is anything "unsupported"... better to do what you do in har.c and get/put each char individually
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16:03:07 <zzo38> Yes, that is what I always do when dealing with external files/protocols though.
16:04:17 <gamemanj> I really did not know this was a thing in C. "['0'...'9']=1"
16:04:26 <zzo38> I think that is a GNU extension
16:04:52 <zzo38> (Note that not only gcc but also clang supports GNU extensions, so you will be able to use clang too if you want to)
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16:51:26 <izabera> #if __GNUC__ && ! __clang__
16:51:28 <izabera> #define UNUSED(x) do { __auto_type __unused __attribute__((unused)) = x; } while (0)
16:51:32 <izabera> #define UNUSED(x) (void) x
16:52:10 <izabera> maybe with (x) instead of x
16:53:25 <izabera> it's a workaround for gcc that still warns me that i'm not using stuff
17:00:43 <zzo38> I don't know, I just use the -W to select which warnings I want
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17:06:11 <zzo38> gamemanj: If you use fread/fwrite directly on some struct buffer should be OK if it contains no pointers and the file is used on the same computer; some of my programs do that but only when the file is not intended to be portable to other computers.
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17:30:37 <wob_jonas> `learn The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games.
17:30:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'overworld': The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games.
17:31:43 <zgrep> Ah, yes, hydraz is here. Makes sense.
17:33:34 <wob_jonas> By the way, watch the Super Amazing Wagon Adventure video from this SGDQ, the commentary makes it very hilarious.
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18:26:18 <int-e> b_jonas: what did you do?!
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18:43:14 <Hoolootwo> K-lining is a (semi-?) permanent server ban, so yeah pretty bad
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19:01:26 <gamemanj> luckily the "real" b_jonas is still alive...
19:04:28 <int-e> it's probably not his fault anyway... the wob version is using some web client.
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19:39:08 <hydraz> zgrep: problem with that?
19:39:22 <zgrep> hydraz: No, it's just that if you weren't here, I was going to point you in this direction. :P
19:47:17 <Phantom__Hoover> <Hoolootwo> K-lining is a (semi-?) permanent server ban, so yeah pretty bad
19:55:39 <alercah> on freenode they're the same
20:01:33 <\oren\> maybe the web client is a problem
20:06:59 <alercah> freenode doesn't like web clients other than its own
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21:44:37 <Taneb> I'm feeling like I'm a not very good programmer today
21:44:57 <Taneb> Well, I didn't think about it yesterday
21:48:56 <Taneb> alercah, "today" was attached to "feeling" rather than to the second "I'm", I guess
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21:54:49 <Taneb> shachaf, I looked at job adverts
21:55:00 <Taneb> And they all seem to require skills I don't have anything near
21:55:24 <Taneb> Being able to program in Java, for one
21:55:41 <shachaf> Oh, well, don't take those jobs, because Java is scow.
21:55:55 <shachaf> But also you could probably learn Java pretty easily.
21:56:15 <Taneb> Also I have difficulty comprehending large systems
21:56:39 <shachaf> That's an important skill for professional programmers, I guess.
21:56:46 <shachaf> But it usually takes a while as far as I know.
21:57:31 <Taneb> Also I have no idea what I'm going to be doing, like, from this time next year
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21:57:42 <MigdaliaDufrane6> KeyError: Identifier('#esoteric') (file "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/sopel/coretasks.py", line 355, in track_join)
21:58:23 <shachaf> Taneb: have you considered moving to california
21:58:43 <int-e> "Sopel is a simple, easy-to-use, open-source IRC utility bot" hmm.
21:59:01 <Taneb> shachaf, is there opportunity for a funded PhD placement in functional programming, category theory, or group theory in California?
22:00:32 <shachaf> for example at stanford people are doing some things
22:01:01 <Taneb> I seem to recall hearing that PhDs in the US take a lot longer than PhDs everywhere else
22:01:07 <Taneb> But I'm not sure if that's true or not
22:01:28 <shachaf> I think undergraduate degrees take longer.
22:01:43 <Taneb> (here they generally take about three years)
22:01:45 <shachaf> What PhDs require you to be able to program in Java?
22:02:13 <Taneb> Some of the ones this uni does, actually
22:02:21 -!- augur has joined.
22:02:22 <MigdaliaDufrane6> KeyError: Identifier('#esoteric') (file "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/sopel/coretasks.py", line 360, in track_join)
22:02:22 <Taneb> There's a research group into Enterprise programming
22:03:14 <int-e> Houston, we have a *broken* unidentified Python IRC bot.
22:03:27 <shachaf> Is that a Star Trek thing?
22:04:05 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Enterprise
22:04:11 <MigdaliaDufrane6> [WIKIPEDIA] HMS Enterprise | "Fifteen ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Enterprise (or HMS Enterprize) while another was planned:HMS Enterprise (1705) was a 24-gun sixth rate, previously the French frigate L'Entreprise, captured in May 1705. She was wrecked in October 1707.HMS Enterprise (1709) was a 44-gun fifth rate..."
22:04:20 <gamemanj> well at least it's trying to be useful
22:04:30 <shachaf> MigdaliaDufrane6: please don't do that twh
22:04:54 <gamemanj> ...that's the name of the site-package
22:05:20 <int-e> cf. https://sopel.chat/
22:05:48 <int-e> that would've been too easy.
22:06:01 <int-e> it's much more fun to google the python package name.
22:06:33 <int-e> hmm, but it doesn't do https? http://sopel.chat/
22:06:52 <shachaf> Taneb: do you recommend getting a phd
22:07:15 <Taneb> shachaf, I haven't tried it yet
22:07:26 <Taneb> It's not for everyone, I'm aware of that
22:07:33 <shachaf> any other kinds of degrees that you'd recommend?
22:07:53 <Taneb> Integrated Masters are pretty neat
22:08:19 <shachaf> maybe you should go work with fizzie in london
22:08:41 <Taneb> That could work, maybe
22:08:51 <Taneb> But it's personal policy to not live in London
22:09:18 <Taneb> The air pollution gets to me
22:10:02 <zzo38> Doesn't everything have air pollution these days?
22:10:05 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
22:10:09 <Taneb> It did when I went back in like 2005 or so
22:10:16 <Taneb> I got a bit ill from it
22:10:52 <shachaf> `slwd tanebventions: math//s/ p/the Hodge star operator, p/
22:10:52 -!- MigdaliaDufrane6 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:10:57 <Taneb> Pointless topology: Alexander Armstrong and Richard Osman are homeomorphic
22:10:58 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma,the Hodge star operator, pointless topology, and histograms.
22:11:21 <shachaf> `slwd tanebventions: math//s/,t/, t/
22:11:24 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, the Hodge star operator, pointless topology, and histograms.
22:11:39 <shachaf> You have a lot of personal policies not to live in places.
22:11:46 <shachaf> Where do your policies permit you to live?
22:12:05 <Taneb> Canada, certain parts of Australia, New Zealand
22:12:16 <Taneb> I believe that is in Canada, so yes
22:14:16 <shachaf> Oh, you should move to Toronto.
22:14:50 <Taneb> I could go to York University
22:15:58 <shachaf> Maybe start a new new York Haskell Compiler project.
22:16:45 <shachaf> Yes, the University of Washington is good.
22:16:47 <Taneb> There's a whole bunch
22:16:53 <shachaf> But Taneb has a personal policy not to live in Washington.
22:17:03 <alercah> Taneb: university of waterloo
22:17:10 <Taneb> The list I sent wasn't exhaustive
22:17:11 <shachaf> Taneb: Well, it's in the US.
22:17:27 <Taneb> No it isn't, Washington is near-ish Newcastle
22:17:58 <Taneb> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Washington/@54.9033022,-1.5531291,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x487e64c8cbe0fc97:0xa8135c37990656ba!8m2!3d54.897432!4d-1.517366
22:18:04 <shachaf> Well, Newcastle is inside Washington: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle,_Washington
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22:18:44 <Taneb> alercah, I mention York University because I am currently sat here in the University of York
22:19:27 <Taneb> Which are two very different places
22:19:28 <shachaf> Taneb: I think your Washington isn't named after George Washington.
22:19:41 <Taneb> shachaf, I think your George Washington is named after Washington
22:19:59 <shachaf> Named after due to being a descendant?
22:20:28 <shachaf> I thought the University of York would be much older.
22:20:39 <Taneb> shachaf, surprisingly, it's like 4 years younger!
22:20:46 <shachaf> I was going to say something about how it should be called the University of Yore.
22:20:53 <Taneb> University of Young
22:21:02 <shachaf> Apparently there are young universities in the UK.
22:21:10 <Taneb> Yeah, like Warwick
22:21:39 <Taneb> I think every person in this channel who is a student at a UK university, the university was founded in the 1960s
22:21:42 <shachaf> Taneb: I recommend moving to the Washington, the state.
22:21:55 <shachaf> I lived there myself for a number of years.
22:23:42 <shachaf> Washington has some advantages over California.
22:23:47 <shachaf> For example, it has a lot more water.
22:23:51 <shachaf> And there's no state income tax.
22:24:22 <shachaf> @google california income tax brackets
22:24:23 <lambdabot> https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator
22:24:40 <shachaf> @google california state income tax brackets
22:24:42 <lambdabot> http://www.tax-brackets.org/californiataxtable
22:24:42 <lambdabot> Title: California Income Tax Brackets 2016
22:24:48 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_War
22:25:01 <Taneb> Someone I lived with last year lived in California for a year
22:27:05 <Taneb> But come October I'm gonna start applying for PhDs in like a whole bunch of everywheres
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22:29:23 <Taneb> Ideally I'd get a funded place somewhere interesting in the UK, EEA, or AUNZ, or Australia or New Zealand
22:29:26 <Taneb> So I won't need to get a visa
22:29:51 <shachaf> What if it was in the US and you got a student visa?
22:30:09 <Taneb> shachaf, that would be almost as good
22:30:35 <Taneb> Does a student visa come with universal healthcare
22:31:09 <shachaf> No, I think students often get healthcare from the university they attend.
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22:31:45 <Taneb> That would be convenient if true
22:32:20 <\oren\> Coup in turkey: Erdogan addresses the nation via skype on a phone held up to the news camera
22:33:17 <Taneb> It seems a regime barely holding on
22:33:37 <\oren\> meanwhile the military says they have seized control and are fighting the turkish police in the streets
22:34:59 <\oren\> Sputnik news claims Erdogan is trying to get out of Turkey via ataturk airport
22:35:14 <izabera> are we happy or not for the coup in turkey?
22:35:28 <izabera> i just came home and know barely anything about it
22:35:52 <\oren\> Well... the military *claims* they are seizing control to protect human rights
22:36:23 <\oren\> And certainly a lot of people in Turkey and the rest of the world are tired of Erdogan's bullshit
22:37:53 <alercah> NBC's reporting that erdogan is requesting asylum from germany now
22:39:25 <Taneb> alercah, I'll definitely add UW to my list of places to think about
22:39:52 <alercah> Taneb: what area would you be looking to study?
22:40:36 <Taneb> alercah, Functional programming type things, ideally
22:40:42 <Taneb> Possibly category or group theory
22:40:52 <alercah> not sure UW's the best school for that honestly
22:40:58 <Taneb> It's a place I can apply to
22:41:07 <Taneb> I aim to cast a wide net
22:41:10 <alercah> if you want algebra, try the pure math department
22:41:56 <Taneb> That's a good point
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22:50:28 <MigdaliaDufrane6> KeyError: Identifier('#esoteric') (file "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/sopel/coretasks.py", line 355, in track_join)
22:51:15 <moon_> Anyone know a interpreter for underload that is in node.js? we (yes, there are 3 others working on it, with solace at the head of the project) are making a bundle of buildin interpreters for it
22:51:32 <moon_> i forgot to mention this is for hbot
22:51:45 <alercah> Taneb: anything type theory like is definitely more suited to PM at UW than to CS as well
23:04:52 <lambdabot> https://www.pce.uw.edu/certificates/project-management
23:05:05 <shachaf> Taneb ought to get a PhD certificate in project management
23:12:42 <int-e> that sounds like a project... how would you manage it...
23:13:19 <int-e> oh, "Pure" Mathematics.
23:14:29 <int-e> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python
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23:14:44 <MigdaliaDufrane6> KeyError: Identifier('#esoteric') (file "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/sopel/coretasks.py", line 360, in track_join)
23:16:28 <\oren\> Turkish army are withdrawing from Iraq
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23:20:44 <MigdaliaDufrane6> KeyError: Identifier('#esoteric') (file "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/sopel/coretasks.py", line 360, in track_join)
23:21:59 <izabera> who wrote this shitty bot?
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23:27:10 <\oren\> MigdaliaDufrane6: who are you?
23:27:53 <int-e> and is it related to JenElizabeth8 ?
23:29:35 <shachaf> Is MigdaliaDufrane6 a big red dog?
23:33:15 <moon_> does underload have a proper way of inserting comments?
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