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00:21:12 <Akaibu> a bit off topic, but does anyone here know how to actually read the javascript cpu dumps you can gen from google chrome's devtools?
00:22:52 <shachaf> I didn't even know you could get them.
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01:12:37 <izabera> why do people write stuff like this? auto main () -> int { ... }
01:13:04 <alercah> izabera: do you really want to know?
01:13:46 <izabera> my current guess is that it makes code look more c++ish
01:14:40 <alercah> you know how bad parsing C++ is, right?
01:15:01 <izabera> never actually tried to write a parser
01:15:12 <alercah> the problem comes back to C actually
01:15:18 <alercah> but C++'s various features just make it way worse
01:15:37 <alercah> is that a declaration or an expression?
01:15:52 <alercah> you can only correctly determine by knowing whether i is a type name or note
01:16:19 <alercah> the complexities of C++'s template system mean that in order to determine whether something is a type or not, you need to be able to resolve templates and overloading
01:17:07 <izabera> ok... so... why not write int main () { ... } ?
01:17:26 <alercah> now, in templates, you often want to write a type that depends on the templated types
01:17:31 <alercah> e.g. operator + (T a, T b)
01:17:42 <alercah> you might want this to return a + b
01:17:57 <alercah> but you can't just write decltype(a + b) as the return type
01:18:24 <alercah> you used to have to do a bunch of crazy template gymnastics
01:18:31 <alercah> that involved making fake values of types
01:19:18 <alercah> to solve this at the language level, they added late-specified return types
01:19:28 <alercah> and they have the weird syntax they do because they wanted consistency with lambdas
01:19:42 <alercah> but some people also want it to be a uniform one-size-fits all syntax
01:19:47 <alercah> so that's why they declare functions using that as well
01:22:23 <izabera> but you can't write auto f () -> void { ... }
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01:24:53 <Sgeo> Elixir's Access.all violates lens laws :(
01:25:02 <izabera> i assumed you can't because e.g. in this snippet http://stackoverflow.com/a/38398485/2815203 they declare two functions with auto f (...) -> type and a void function with the old syntax
01:25:22 <izabera> and your point was that they do it for consistency
01:25:29 <izabera> but that looks inconsistent to me
01:26:53 <Sgeo> iex(29)> [[{0, 1}]] |> get_in [Access.all, Access.all, Access.elem(0)]
01:27:05 <alercah> don't make me pull out the standard
01:27:30 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, referral link
01:28:14 <izabera> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38393694/how-to-generate-nested-loops-at-compile-time second answer here
01:28:55 <shachaf> I don't know what that's doing so I can't tell whether it violates any laws.
01:30:29 <Sgeo> [[{0, 1}]] is in Haskell terms [[(0, 1)]]
01:30:41 <Sgeo> get_in is a function for using Elixir's lens-like things
01:30:58 <Sgeo> Access.all targets all elements of a list. Access.elem(0) targets element 0 of a tuple
01:31:01 <alercah> izabera: that's just inconsistent usage
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03:56:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=48888 * Darkrifts * (+1816) Created page with "This language and its specification is still being developed by ~~~, suggestions are welcome and appreciated. The language is "compiled" into an obfuscated set of characters a..."
03:57:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48889&oldid=48888 * Darkrifts * (+16) /* Documentation */
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04:20:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48890&oldid=48889 * Darkrifts * (+582) /* Documentation */
04:21:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48891&oldid=48890 * Darkrifts * (+2) /* = Stack */
04:21:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48892&oldid=48891 * Darkrifts * (+2) /* Queue */
04:21:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48893&oldid=48892 * Darkrifts * (-2)
04:21:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48894&oldid=48893 * Darkrifts * (-2) /* Stack */
04:22:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48895&oldid=48894 * Darkrifts * (-2) /* Queue */
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04:24:49 <adu> thank you chan serv
04:24:58 <adu> you're so good to me
04:34:53 <Sgeo> https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news-and-blogs/free-pokemon.htm
04:35:04 <Sgeo> Isn't this exactly against what net neutrality is supposed to be for?
04:51:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48897&oldid=48895 * Darkrifts * (+879) /* Documentation */
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06:27:19 <Sgeo> If the essence of strength is sneaking stuff across composition, what is the essence of choice?
06:29:34 <shachaf> sneaking mposition across costuff
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06:45:57 <izabera> https://arin.ga/RbnWnM/raw this works at least on linux
06:46:14 <izabera> i can send 256mb in a single write, and get the data back in a single read
06:46:47 <izabera> is linux is being clever and it's super unportable?
06:50:12 <izabera> i was expecting to be bounded by the pipe buffer size
06:50:23 <shachaf> I don't expect that it's atomic.
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07:07:20 <pikhq> izabera: This is Linux being nice is all. PIPE_BUF is the amount that's guaranteed to be atomic, not the maximum read or write size.
07:07:42 <pikhq> Linux is permitted to, and apparently is in this case, letting you work on significantly more data.
07:12:16 <fizzie> // comments on the same line as a #define unnerve me.
07:12:26 <fizzie> Logically, I know that comments are removed in translation phase 3, but it doesn't help with the feeling.
07:14:39 <fizzie> Also, POSIX on pipes: "A write request for more than {PIPE_BUF} bytes shall cause one of the following: When at least one byte can be written, transfer what it can and return the number of bytes written. When all data previously written to the pipe is read, it shall transfer at least {PIPE_BUF} bytes."
07:15:10 <fizzie> So I think izabera's program really ought to check what the write/read calls return.
07:15:31 <fizzie> Oh, I guess it does the memcmp. Well, still.
07:15:33 <shachaf> That's true for most programs that issue write/read calls.
07:15:35 <pikhq> I didn't look at the program. Yes, it really should.
07:16:52 <pikhq> But yes, PIPE_BUF is a guaranteed minimum that will be transfered, not a maximum.
07:17:54 <izabera> great, then i'm using this to implement dd
07:17:55 <pikhq> A magical multi-exabyte pipe buffer would be a valid implementation even without PIPE_BUF matching.
07:18:02 <izabera> dealing with ibs != obs is annoying
07:18:29 <pikhq> I dunno if that'll work correctly.
07:18:41 <pikhq> dd... is kinda defined pretty precisely in POSIX.
07:18:56 <shachaf> have you considered that unix is scow
07:19:24 <pikhq> shachaf: Yeah, but all other popular OSes aren't even scows.
07:19:33 <izabera> what makes you think it wouldn't?
07:19:59 <pikhq> izabera: The kernel is perfectly permitted to restrict you to just PIPE_BUF buffers.
07:20:43 <izabera> kernel is being nice to me so it would be stupid not to use it
07:21:04 <pikhq> The kernel is being nice to you today. The kernel is within its rights to not be nice to you tomorrow.
07:21:32 <izabera> that'd be a pretty serious regression
07:21:44 <pikhq> No it wouldn't. PIPE_BUF is the interface contract.
07:22:19 <izabera> ugh fine i'll do the buffering
07:22:26 <pikhq> If you write broken code against what you pretend is the interface instead of the documented interface, you get to keep both pieces.
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07:49:42 <izabera> is there a way to discard data without reading it from a non seekable device?
08:28:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48898&oldid=48897 * Darkrifts * (-30) /* Documentation */
08:29:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48899&oldid=48898 * Darkrifts * (-24)
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09:47:24 <hppavilion[1]> New self-screening pickup line: Give a girl (or boy) your number- your Erdős number
09:48:06 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, "new" in that I just learned it; Zack Weiner invented it in 2013 or something)
09:52:10 <Taneb> I haven't written any papers yet :(
09:52:53 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Hurry up and do it with someone with a finite Erdos number
09:53:15 <hppavilion[1]> Does anyone in this channel have a finite Erdos number?
09:53:58 <Taneb> I know oerjan does, I'd be very surprised if none else does
09:55:01 <Taneb> I *live* with someone with a finite Erdõs number
09:56:42 <Taneb> It's 6, but that's something
09:59:28 <hppavilion[1]> I doubt anyone ever had an initial Erdos number of 1, except maybe 1 Ramanujan-level genius
10:00:27 <Taneb> The English equivalent is something like George Johnson
10:01:07 <hppavilion[1]> Because in a late-night would-be-but-am-not-actually-drunk session of trailing, I found someone- perhaps a minor celebrity, if only of a medical variety- named Ørjan Johansen
10:02:01 <hppavilion[1]> There's a quote from him talking about how he managed to quit smoking and drinking
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10:05:52 <Taneb> Been a while since I've had much in the way of alcohol
10:06:02 <Taneb> Wine with dinner when I've been on holiday
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10:28:24 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Well-known in here, of course.
10:28:55 <HackEgo> Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
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10:41:11 <shachaf> Taneb: i recommend sticking with ethanol hth
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10:44:41 <Napejts> wtf is esoteric programming
10:47:17 <HackEgo> Napejts: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
10:47:28 <Napejts> but how can i use this languages?
10:50:08 <int-e> I don't know, browse https://esolangs.org/ a bit until you find something that has a link to an implementation and appeals tou you, then try it out?
10:50:57 <Napejts> theny we are they languages without links?...
10:52:52 <int-e> They may still be interesting from a theoretical perspective... Also some languages are created by people who like writing examples and/or specifications and hope somebody else will implement them.
10:55:50 <Napejts> thanks god its non-capitalistic
11:00:18 <Napejts> guys and gals. i can not decide to use unity or unreal engine?
11:00:59 <Napejts> they are almost the same.. except UE gives better graphics.. but less tutorials.. unity has a lot tutorials... but not so good graphic... and unreal has visual scripting called blueprint.... unity has only c#
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15:35:30 <lambdabot> CYQB 161400Z 06011KT 040V110 30SM FEW020 SCT070 SCT240 19/12 A3001 RMK CF1AC2CI1 SLP164 DENSITY ALT 600FT
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17:57:19 <int-e> oh good, the python bot got k-lined.
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17:58:48 <int-e> about 18 hours ago... it was broken, spamming the channel with errors when people joined.
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18:02:01 <izabera> someone who's often here should become op
18:02:23 <int-e> /quote chanserv access #esoteric list
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18:02:39 <izabera> /quote chanserv access #esoteric list
18:03:17 <int-e> you should get notices (not privmsg) from chanserv
18:03:40 <int-e> they may not be very prominent. (I get them in the "server log" window in irssi)
18:04:13 <zzo38> It might not work because the correct command is "cs access #esoteric list"
18:04:21 <izabera> i was jk but you're not fun
18:05:09 <int-e> zzo38: "chanserv" as a raw command definitely works
18:07:02 <int-e> izabera: I think there was no way to tell that that was supposed to be a joke.
18:07:46 <zzo38> Yes that works too, although "cs" is also valid
18:07:48 <izabera> you're not in the right mindset
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18:29:18 <oerjan> did someone want an op
18:29:27 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 1d 6h 9m 52s ago: I'm free!
18:30:01 <oerjan> izabera: we have 3 active ops, the problem might be that we're all in the timezone.
18:30:34 <oerjan> alas all the american ops left us.
18:31:02 <oerjan> (of course my timezone is ridiculously messed up so _shouldn't_ count anyway.)
18:33:10 <oerjan> someone's stealing my words
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18:37:29 <oerjan> <Taneb> The English equivalent is something like George Johnson <-- i think "George" is a bit too common for comparison. my last name is considerably more common (as in 2nd place in norway) than the first (although neither is rare.)
18:37:45 <oerjan> of course you're right if you're thinking cognates.
18:38:04 <int-e> oerjan: are you suggesting that there's more than one time zone?
18:38:27 <int-e> next you'll tell us that Earth is not a disc but approximately spherical...
18:38:51 <oerjan> *sigh* it's that time of day when the sun shines straight onto my sofa... fortunately that ends in about seven minutes.
18:39:20 <oerjan> int-e: there are more timezones in heaven and in earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy
18:41:04 <oerjan> otoh the spammer was about this time of day, wasn't e.
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18:42:28 <int-e> ‷‶‵′″‴ <-- beautiful (but not quotes)
18:42:38 <oerjan> so perhaps it was just bad luck. although i'm not _usually_ here at that time. although that day i was away for a different reason than usual.
18:43:01 <oerjan> int-e: not that kind of quote.
18:44:18 <int-e> It's so sad, Unicode is devoid of any quintuple stuff.
18:45:16 <HackEgo> mroman_//mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure. (NSFW)
18:45:45 <oerjan> that's ridiculous, everyone knows quadruples are not primes
18:46:24 <gamemanj> it's not a *4 prime, it's a prime so awesome they had to mention it 4 times
18:47:29 <HackEgo> <mroman> learn_append mroman_ (NSFW) \ <mroman_> learn mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure.
18:47:40 <HackEgo> 235) <oklopol> actually the first joke i thought elliott was making was that he's so small masturbation is gay pedophilia
18:47:46 <oerjan> myname: ask mroman hth
18:53:13 <HackEgo> Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
18:53:28 <int-e> oerjan, http://www.bash.org/?311375
18:54:45 <int-e> myname: I'm afraid it's probably based on a graphic interpretation of the underscore.
19:06:48 <oerjan> <int-e> (here we use "kilo" for "kilogram" when shopping... so why not do the same for decagrams (a unit, that fortunately, isn't fashionable here)) <-- heh in norway we use(d) kilo, and also hekto, but not deka.
19:07:50 <oerjan> somehow deka isn't really used as a prefix either.
19:08:39 <oerjan> desi is, though, with liter.
19:23:09 <int-e> hmm I'm too stupid for this "Snakebird" game.
19:23:20 <shachaf> int-e: snakebird is too good
19:25:34 <int-e> I mean I'm not failing completely... but 45 or so solved levels the remaining one are really quite hard...
19:26:12 <shachaf> How many levels are there?
19:27:19 <int-e> 51 I can predict (45 numbered ones, and 6 in the clouds...)
19:28:30 <int-e> wait, they count from zero, so 52. and there might be another one in the center... or many other ones on the surrounding islands. I don't know :)
19:28:55 <shachaf> int-e: Did you play Stephen's Sausage Roll?
19:30:03 <shachaf> It is also a puzzle game with difficult puzzles.
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19:50:47 <Sgeo> tromp, there's work on a JS version
20:12:08 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
20:12:39 <int-e> `learn_append tg This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp.
20:12:46 <HackEgo> Learned 'tg': TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp.
20:13:05 <shachaf> int-e: are you going to roll any sausages
20:13:44 <int-e> shachaf: not any time soon, I believe
20:16:52 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
20:16:53 <int-e> `le/rn tgtgtgtg/This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp.
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20:23:27 <int-e> hmm. perhaps something with total control?
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20:37:37 <oerjan> hm oh maybe there was a new spammer
20:38:47 <oerjan> the other two ops tend to take a bit of weekends off, me thinks.
20:39:59 <shachaf> the only solution is for fizzie to move to mountain view
20:40:58 <int-e> you could lock down the channel during the night... hehe.
20:45:25 <quintopia> has anyone ever written any procedurally generated techno music?
20:45:58 <int-e> the demo scene all way through the 80s and 90s, would be my guess.
20:46:45 <int-e> (probably not quite the way you want; I'm using the term "procedurally generated" in a fairly loose sense)
20:52:11 <\oren\> Do people in scandinavia pronounce Java as "Yava"?
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20:54:30 <oerjan> \oren\: by default, yes.
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20:54:56 <oerjan> and i think this is not a case where insisting on english pronunciation is likely.
20:55:33 <oerjan> especially since the island is already pronounced that way.
20:56:39 * oerjan notes that how the _a_s are pronounced will vary between scandinavian countries.
20:58:13 <oerjan> like, anywhere between en:far and en:bad
20:59:14 <oerjan> (iiuc, norwegian uses approximately the former, danish approximately the latter, and swedish one of each.)
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21:03:52 <oerjan> "se pluss pluss" in norwegian, anyway. like each character in order.
21:04:03 <quintopia> int-e: i suppose i mean "dynamic, adaptable, 'infinitely' novel procedural generation"
21:04:17 <\oren\> Ah, I was wondering if the C would differ
21:04:51 <oerjan> nah. the vowels are different, though.
21:05:00 <quintopia> oerjan: can you record yourself reading the names of the top twenty most popular programming languages for science?
21:05:41 <oerjan> hm i may be slightly biased there: i have not actually _heard_ norwegians pronounce most of them, so i _could_ be wrong.
21:06:06 <oerjan> (also, what are they?)
21:08:12 <oerjan> i have no idea how norwegians pronounce the # in C#.
21:09:09 <oerjan> (likely just using the english word.)
21:11:45 <quintopia> here i read them and you can just tell me where you would differ: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-0NVE9E8UJieVUxeXJaNnVpYk0/view?usp=sharing
21:13:33 <oerjan> i don't think describing it would do.
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21:21:07 <int-e> quintopia: more seriously, googling "procedurally generated music" turns up enough results that I'm pretty sure this has been tried, at least, perhaps successfully. and on a far less serious note(no pun intended), I thought all one needs for techno is a simple while loop.
21:22:46 <oerjan> quintopia: https://clyp.it/zwo2wql3
21:23:36 <oerjan> many of those are somewhat guesswork.
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21:29:24 <oerjan> although i'm pretty sure i've heard many of them too. Perl, Matlab, Basic (maybe not with the visual), C, Javascript, Python and Java, at least.
21:30:55 * oerjan thinks that selection pinpoints his age a bit :P
21:32:30 <shachaf> What's the one at 0:22 after Visual Basic?
21:33:26 <shachaf> I didn't see quintopia's recording.
21:34:13 <oerjan> shachaf: VBA, which i'm pretty sure i've never heard a norwegian say, so it's just the letters in order.
21:34:45 <shachaf> quintopia's recording is very General American.
21:35:50 <oerjan> or have you reached the point where you have a noticeable accent in both languages
21:35:51 <shachaf> I have a noticeable accent in every language.
21:36:44 <shachaf> Also I don't think GH is a thing.
21:41:20 <shachaf> Also you can tell that I don't know how to pronoucne things because I'd pronounce "Delphi" like oerjan rather than like quintopia.
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21:42:45 <shachaf> oerjan's pronunciation is more Norwegian than I thought. I'll have to rethink my pun strategy.
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21:43:30 <oerjan> indeed it is. it's how we pronounce the greek place name.
21:43:51 <oerjan> so i assume the PL would be the same.
21:44:33 <oerjan> also, what does this have to do with your pun strategy
21:44:39 <shachaf> Presumably it's spelled ∇ɸ
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21:45:42 <\oren\> I thoght ∇ was pronounced "nabla"?
21:45:50 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del
21:46:12 <quintopia> oerjan: the one that surprised me the most was the "H" in "PHP"
21:46:24 <oerjan> \oren\: indeed. iirc there's a student organization in Oslo by that name.
21:46:29 <shachaf> The two that I couldn't figure out initially were Python and VBA.
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21:46:38 <oerjan> quintopia: well that's also just the letters in order.
21:46:55 <quintopia> oerjan: i just didn't know that was the norwegian way to say H
21:47:03 <shachaf> That reminds me that I should learn differential geometry.
21:47:55 <\oren\> I encountered nabla when I took Analysis II and larned some stuff about manifolds
21:49:27 <quintopia> shachaf: yeah the pronouncing "th" as /t/ rather than /þ/ threw me as well
21:49:51 <shachaf> Well, that's pretty common in transliterating English words to other languages.
21:49:51 <quintopia> also i started trying to learn diffgeom once.
21:50:23 <quintopia> shachaf: yes but "other languages" wouldn't normally include "nordic languages" in my mind hth
21:50:46 <\oren\> nabla f is the gradient of a scalar field f, nabla dot v is the divergence of a vector field v, and nabla cross v is the curl of the vecotr field
21:51:41 <\oren\> and there's some rule where a nabla of another nabla gives zero
21:51:42 <shachaf> quintopia: your preconceptions about nordic languages are a thorn in your side hth
21:52:31 <quintopia> shachaf: i'd call them "conceptions" since i've actually been to all those countries and had some luck in translating the signs hth
21:52:35 <shachaf> \oren\: Pft. http://mathoverflow.net/questions/10574/how-do-i-make-the-conceptual-transition-from-multivariable-calculus-to-different makes me want to skip over that whole thing.
21:52:51 <shachaf> quintopia: i just wanted to make a pun hth
21:53:20 <quintopia> shachaf: these days i just assume you work a pun into every message, even when you're being totally serious hth
21:53:25 <oerjan> quintopia: https://clyp.it/uwzhgvhr btw it's in my dialect, the "standard" pronunciation has more closed e's in many letters.
21:54:51 <quintopia> oerjan: sounds very...spanish-like. except, again, the H. still have no idea on that.
21:55:20 <oerjan> quintopia: norwegian has no /þ/ so that's a given, sometimes even when pronouncing things loosely "as english".
21:56:35 <oerjan> quintopia: the H is explained by that at some point in norwegian history, long a (á) turned into å.
21:57:09 <oerjan> several other vowels are also sort of "rotated" a bit.
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21:59:06 <oerjan> shachaf: en:thorn = no:torne so it checks out :P
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21:59:43 <oerjan> or wait, maybe without the e. hm that might vary.
22:03:08 <oerjan> the cognates to english th tend to have t or d, or sometimes nothing at the end of syllables (which may or may not be written as a d)
22:06:57 <oerjan> thou -> du, three -> tre, there -> der, bath -> bad, and i'm having trouble thinking of a silent one that actually has an english cognate...
22:08:46 <oerjan> old norse had /þ/ or /ð/ there, of course.
22:19:29 <oerjan> @tell moon_ <moon_> Anyone know a interpreter for underload that is in node.js? <-- i think there's a JS one linked from the esolang page, at least.
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