00:00:07 <zzo38> It also depend what kind of mahjong game there is many variants, such as Japanese game, or Chinese game. The Japanese game is popular in many parts of the world including in Japan.
00:00:59 <quintopia> it would be sad if the japanese didn't like the japanese one
00:01:20 <oerjan> improvements i'd like for freenode: to stop resetting the time on bans, and to _not_ reset idle time over pingout quit/joins...
00:01:22 <quintopia> oerjan: isn't "impact" the worst word ever
00:01:41 <oerjan> quintopia: all dinosaurs agree with you
00:01:52 <quintopia> oerjan: not that usage. that one is fine.
00:02:12 <oerjan> are you saying they weren't impacted by it
00:02:14 <quintopia> the other one, as a synonym for "affect" or "effect"
00:02:24 <myname> who would've guessed the japanese version is popular in japan
00:02:35 <quintopia> i'm saying they were mostly not impacted, yes
00:02:53 <quintopia> which had an effect on the animals living at the time
00:03:06 <oerjan> well it could be worse. they could have been effected by it.
00:03:28 <quintopia> the ones who are alive now--basically were
00:03:42 * oerjan once corrected someone on wikipedia who overcorrected affect/effect
00:03:43 <quintopia> educational outcomes should not be
00:04:16 <oerjan> quintopia: i think you missed the part where i misused "effected" hth
00:04:42 <oerjan> or maybe it works in a different sense, barely.
00:05:27 <quintopia> oerjan: i assume you meant in the sense of "to cause to come into being" hth
00:06:14 <quintopia> anyway, you can misuse afect/effect all you want, just don't replace them with "impact" hthem
00:08:14 <oerjan> a small gunk civilization between the f and g keys
00:09:07 <oerjan> soon they will spread all under the keyboard, but carefully learn to avoid the area right under the keys.
00:10:49 * oerjan realizes his brain incorrectly corrected spasming to spamming
00:11:08 <oerjan> which is a bit opposite in this case.
00:12:30 <Zarutian> hmm.. talking about spam, what do you people do with speculative invocies?
00:13:28 <oerjan> fortunately, i don't get any tdh
00:14:07 <quintopia> and insist that i receive the services i'm paying for
00:14:08 <oerjan> (i guess because i don't buy on the internet)
00:14:29 <Zarutian> I usually mail back an rubber cheque, in both senses of the word
00:14:29 <quintopia> then threaten lawsuits when the service is not provided
00:15:06 <Zarutian> the guy selling me the rubber says its rather elastic payment method
00:15:46 <quintopia> i don't even know what an elastic payment method is when taken seriously
00:15:57 * oerjan gives Zarutian a medium low swat -----###
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00:31:20 <oerjan> <FireFly> the Gävle goat got torched one year [...] <-- . o O ( have they considered using a different material )
00:32:02 <FireFly> They've been trying to fireproof it with some spray
00:32:11 <FireFly> I think with moderate success?
00:32:20 <FireFly> but I think it burned down in the end anyway
00:32:49 <FireFly> "2013 As in 2006 and 2007, the straw used to build the goat has been soaked in anti-flammable liquid to prevent it from burning in the event of an arson attack.[48] The inauguration ceremony took place on 1 December. On 21 December the goat was burned down.[49]"
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00:48:27 <oerjan> FireFly: wiktionary's audio play failed on me again. is "ström" pronounced with a short or a long ö?
00:48:53 <FireFly> long m I suppose, but I'm not good at telling consonantal length
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00:49:41 <oerjan> well afaik swedish is like norwegian there, either long vowel or long consonant in stressed syllables.
00:50:08 <Zarutian> oerjan: svo þú ert að læra sænsku?
00:51:39 <oerjan> Zarutian: nah i already understand swedish well enough, i just wondered how the name "Ström" in the article about the Gävle goat was pronounced.
00:52:07 <oerjan> FireFly: um, that's not different, is it :P
00:52:39 <FireFly> Like most (all?) names named after geographical features like that.. at least all I can think of
00:56:26 <oerjan> i think the wiktionary standard is sort of to not include consonant length for the (phonemic) ipa in such cases, though.
00:57:35 <oerjan> Zarutian: i have been trying to get a more accurate pronunciation because i've been learning some swedish songs, though.
00:58:19 <oerjan> but most sounds are not that different from norwegian.
00:58:36 <oerjan> (sj and a being the most obvious exceptions)
01:00:05 <oerjan> wiktionary's swedish pronunciation guide looks much better than the norwegian.
01:00:24 <FireFly> Hmm, what article is that?
01:00:34 <oerjan> (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Swedish_pronunciation)
01:00:56 <oerjan> although the audio play failed for me there, too.
01:01:09 <oerjan> (i think IE doesn't like very short audio clips, or something.)
01:02:17 <oerjan> as in, it plays, but cuts off nearly all of it. and then goes into some swirling animation mode.
01:03:43 <oerjan> (_wikipedia's_ norwegian pronunciation guide is good, though... but they're inconsistent, and i almost got into an edit war with someone who changed to the wiktionary style)
01:04:09 <oerjan> (only didn't because i didn't bother to revert back)
01:04:29 <FireFly> Hmm, does norwegian have retroflex consonants? for rs, rt, etc
01:05:03 <oerjan> ok all trivial except for /œ/ as the short ö
01:05:30 <oerjan> FireFly: yep, most dialects (the exception being south western ones with guttural rs)
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01:11:37 <oerjan> FireFly: another question. is it common to vary "är" between /æ:r/ and /e:/ dependent on whether a vowel or consonant is following? i noticed a song doing this, but wiktionary only describes those as "clear" vs. "everyday" pronunciation.
01:12:02 <oerjan> (Wennersten's Det Vakraste fwiw)
01:12:56 <FireFly> I don't think so, no. I'd use /e:/ in typical everyday speech even before a word starting with a vowel sound
01:13:14 <FireFly> "dé é inte [...]" "it isn't [...]"
01:13:26 <oerjan> well i meant not necessarily in everyday speech, but in some intermediate style
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01:18:12 <oerjan> now this audio _did_ play right, probably because it was slightly longer, but only on first try :P
01:18:32 <oerjan> (the pitch "anden vs. anden" example)
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01:53:46 <oerjan> our spam filter rules are holding pretty well :)
01:54:31 <oerjan> heaps of attempts a day ago
01:55:25 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Instead of limiting the wiki to defence, I think that it should be equipped for retaliation and the occasional preemptitive strike
01:56:19 <hppavilion[1]> (Perhaps we should r&d the ability for the wiki to invade the dreams of our adversaries and give them constant nightmares- and the occasional sleep paralysis- until they are afraid to sleep?)
01:56:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Prefrigerator™ | The interdisciplinary strange loop of Esoteric Programming Language Design and Deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
01:58:22 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't think this world can survive if people keep a general habit of escalating conflicts unnecessarily hth
01:58:45 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It can if we crush our adversaries completely, to the point that they can never retaliate
02:00:15 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the problem is that even after you win, your own side will re-split into a new conflict, precisely because you've become addicted to conflict.
02:00:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Perhaps we can use religion to keep everyone in line?
02:01:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that has a mixed success rate i think :P
02:05:58 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: We'll include a subset that is compatible with Atheism to keep them(/us) on board- drop the dogma, keep a lightweight set of traditions and rituals and require that a solid 80% of the moral laws be maintained
02:07:52 <zzo38> Don't force religion on everyone, either.
02:12:37 <Phantom_Hoover> religion for some, miniature american flags for others
02:13:33 <zzo38> Also not everyone live in United States anyways.
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02:13:46 <zzo38> And, not everyone does or should be same religious.
02:14:04 <zzo38> There are many different kinds, and we can learn from everything a bit.
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02:34:02 <B1ood6od> Long time no see, how's the chat?
02:36:18 <B1ood6od> Anything interesting in the last few months?
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02:45:25 <zzo38> Look in the logs and wiki and see.
02:45:38 <zzo38> I am not on during 100% of all the time and do not remember 100% of the things
02:50:58 <izabera> what should a library do in case of memory exhaustion?
02:51:17 <izabera> what's the sane behaviour?
02:52:00 <izabera> 1. do nothing, set errno to ENOMEM, return
02:52:29 <izabera> 3. free all the data structures it previously allocated
02:52:49 <zzo38> Probably can depend on what the function is, I suppose?
02:52:53 <izabera> and by previously i mean other function calls, unrelated to the one that failed due to memory exhaustion
02:54:48 <izabera> e.g. this generates a random bignum number https://github.com/maandree/libzahl/blob/a02ba0b0602fb1d6caa5ce332a0c3483c3e4c4aa/src/zrand.c
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02:55:12 <izabera> and if it fails it frees all the structures
02:55:25 <izabera> even the ones used by other bignums
02:55:56 <izabera> i just fail to see the point
02:56:22 <zzo38> I also fail to see the point
02:57:09 <izabera> so what would be the sane thing to do?
03:00:57 <zzo38> It should be changed so that the return type is not void, and therefore it can tell you if it is OK or not.
03:06:42 <hppavilion[1]> Has anybody ever written a constitution in the style of a man page?
03:07:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Of course, to REALLY keep everyone in line, we'll need to also have people know that they prefer it this way
03:08:04 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: of course, i don't think keeping everyone in line is a sane thing to aim for.
03:08:33 <hppavilion[1]> So we'll discretely fund a rebellion- with our own people in charge- that will have the job of rebelling, but having all rebels live in shitty conditions so that only the most dedicated-to-the-cause people join and being sure to rebel badly
03:10:11 <oerjan> that sounds a little bit like 1984 hth
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03:13:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If we want to go full-on bureaucratic hell, we can make the funding of the rebellion open and legit
03:14:08 <hppavilion[1]> Quick question: Does the US congress qualify as a parliament?
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03:22:13 <oerjan> of course that doesn't make the us have parliamentarism
03:28:11 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The Wikipedia page for Parliaments doesn't mention it at all, and the page for Congress mentions it twice- the first time is "parliamentary procedure" which is probably just saying that it's in the style done by parliaments, the second time is "parliamentary privilege" which is just the common term for a thing /usually/ applied to Parliament members but that extends to non-Parliament countries in general (in theory, it could
03:29:39 <hppavilion[1]> There does appear to be a distinction between "Parliamentary governments" and "Presidential governments", and I assume the US falls under the latter, but it's not inconceivable that a government with a parliament isn't a parliamentary government (or even that a country can be somewhere in between)
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03:32:12 <oerjan> norway used to be in between between 1814 and 188something
03:32:44 <oerjan> then the parliament got the bright idea to use our equivalent of an impeachment procedure to enforce parliamentarism.
03:33:31 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently, the Australian Government once shut down
03:33:41 <oerjan> "Although some restrict the use of the word parliament to parliamentary systems, it is also commonly used to describe the legislature in presidential systems (i.e. the French parliament), even where it is not in the official name."
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03:35:42 <oerjan> norway's king cannot actually dissolve parliament, i guess it's one of the many features we borrowed from the us constitution.
03:38:15 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( Surveillance state with an absolute oligarchy (like an absolute monarchy, but with more than one monarch that can contradict the others- with no proper mechanism for resolving contradictions beyond reversal wars and friendly agreement))
03:39:28 <hppavilion[1]> Participation is involuntary while in the channel, and can be involuntary elsewhere if the oligarchs decide as such (though the surveillance state doesn't extend beyond the borders)
03:40:02 <hppavilion[1]> Oligarchs can, of course, single-handedly introduce a new oligarch without the consent of others
03:40:32 <oerjan> of course it extends beyond the borders, we borrow intelligence from google hth
03:41:48 <oerjan> technically there is a possible hierarchy of oligarchs, but i don't think there's any difference between the 3 currently active ones hth
03:42:23 <oerjan> (it depends on chanserv flag settings)
03:42:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The surveillance state can extend beyond the borders upon request by pooling state surveillance, and one of the major surveillors will respond to most queries on the drop of a hat and is basically the world's most powerful surveillance state
03:43:43 <oerjan> secondmost, don't forget the NSA hth
03:44:36 <hppavilion[1]> CIA and FBI are still too powerful, but they aren't the ones collecting and storing EVERYONE's EVERYTHING
03:45:36 <hppavilion[1]> Oligarchs are specifically equipped with the powers to- quite easily- deport citizens, imprison or execute citizens, promote to an oligarch or specifically permit an individual to break a state-mandated Period of Silence, and at will modify the small set of standing laws
03:46:58 <hppavilion[1]> While not relevant in #esoteric, many similar governments permit Oligarchs- and only Oligarchs- to modify the Universal Psychic Message Broadcast
03:47:53 <oerjan> despite rumors, we cannot actually execute citizens, we need to ask freenode staff for that hth
03:48:48 <oerjan> that's what i thought.
03:49:10 <hppavilion[1]> #esoteric's oligarchs can even impose population control
03:50:50 <alercah> especially when someone hacks the government and steals all the democracy
03:50:56 <alercah> or whatever happend to the DAO
03:51:52 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_DAO_(organization)
03:54:14 <zzo38> Then, make Zenarchy.
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06:22:34 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It gave real sponsorships related to my search though
06:22:52 <hppavilion[1]> (PETITION: Change the USA's motto to "Lorem Ipsum Sit Dolor Amet"
06:23:48 <myname> the hell did you searched for
06:24:44 <hppavilion[1]> Also, the capital of the US should be moved to Blackacre in Franklin
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12:13:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * WolfgangTS * New user account
12:15:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49079 * WolfgangTS * (+2641) Pipefuck
12:20:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49080&oldid=49079 * WolfgangTS * (+581)
12:21:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:WolfgangTS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49081 * WolfgangTS * (+148) Created page with "== About me == I'm a developer, who really does nothing. I like JavaScript, and node. I like learning '''lots''' of languages, and making some too."
12:22:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:WolfgangTS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49082 * WolfgangTS * (+13) Created page with "Nothing here!"
12:23:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49083&oldid=49080 * WolfgangTS * (+0) /* Multiplication program */
12:27:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49084&oldid=49083 * WolfgangTS * (-14) /* Comments */
12:33:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49085&oldid=49084 * WolfgangTS * (+32) /* The tape */
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12:37:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49086&oldid=49085 * WolfgangTS * (-16) /* Multiplication program */
12:38:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49087&oldid=49086 * WolfgangTS * (-7) /* Computational Class */
12:39:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49088&oldid=49087 * WolfgangTS * (+11) /* Implementation */
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12:44:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pipefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49089&oldid=49088 * WolfgangTS * (+36)
12:46:07 <myname> he likes js and immediateöy creates a bf derivate
12:48:06 <myname> l and ö are right next to each other
12:48:47 <izabera> why would anyone use ~ in pipefuck?
12:50:33 <myname> ~ is like f in befunge
12:50:44 <myname> basically, it is a worse befunge
12:51:11 <izabera> i think their examples shouldn't use 4 at t0 and 3 at t1
12:51:40 <izabera> wait, they can't be reached
12:52:46 <izabera> probably because i don't befunge
12:53:21 <izabera> i still have to learn c++ properly
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12:54:27 <myname> c++ is like the worst language i could probably think of
12:54:29 <ybden> That's a bit of a silly reason
12:54:34 <ybden> And C++ is horrible
12:55:12 <izabera> are you guys implying that befunge > c++?
12:55:18 <ybden> I don't see how the first pipefuck example would work, if 'equal' means the same character
12:55:42 <myname> izabera: pretty close, but yeah
12:55:42 <ybden> since as soon as it finds the first space, it will randomly choose a space to teleport to
12:56:20 <izabera> it finds \ and goes downwards
12:56:38 <ybden> thought the first code block was in pipefuck
12:57:15 <ybden> no, it's in brainfuck
12:57:41 <ybden> unless I'm on an old version of the page
12:58:17 <izabera> when you say "the first code block" you should specify that you mean the one before the 2nd
12:58:38 <ybden> I should really be more precise
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16:38:12 <Jafet> `unicode ALMOST EQUAL TO
16:38:39 <Jafet> `unicode APPROXIMATELY EQUAL TO
16:42:31 <Jafet> `unicode small letter iota
16:42:39 <HackEgo> U+0269 LATIN SMALL LETTER IOTA \ UTF-8: c9 a9 UTF-16BE: 0269 Decimal: ɩ \ ɩ (Ɩ) \ Uppercase: U+0196 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0390 GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA WITH DIALYTIKA AND TONOS \ UTF-8: ce 90 UTF-16BE: 0390 Decimal: ΐ \ ΐ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Dec
16:42:52 <Jafet> I guess ≅ is a reasonable approximation of ≈.
16:43:51 <HackEgo> U+FE18 PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET \ UTF-8: ef b8 98 UTF-16BE: fe18 Decimal: ︘ \ ︘ \ Category: Pe (Punctuation, Close) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Decomposition: <vertical> 3017
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18:04:54 <orin> `unicode NEITHER EXACTLY NOR APPROXIMATELY EQUAL TO
18:06:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unicodde: not found
18:06:59 <orin> `unicode neither
18:07:02 <HackEgo> U+2247 NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO \ UTF-8: e2 89 87 UTF-16BE: 2247 Decimal: ≇ \ ≇ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ Decomposition: 2245 0338 \ \ U+2270 NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR EQUAL TO \ UTF-8: e2 89 b0 UTF-16BE: 2270 Decimal: ≰ \ ≰ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \
18:07:29 <orin> `unicode NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO
18:08:09 <orin> `unicode NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO
18:15:25 <ybden> `unicode ALMOST BUT NOT QUITE ENTIRELY UNLIKE
18:59:06 <quintopia> orin: pretty sure all the "neither" symbols are just some other symbol with a / through it
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20:29:48 <Jafet> combining neither overlay
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20:59:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF instruction minimalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49090&oldid=49078 * AshuraTheHedgehog * (-1) /* AshuraTheHedgehog's attempt */ removed a colon
21:07:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49091&oldid=41646 * 12.161.214.178 * (+127) add filesizes
21:23:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:AshuraTheHedgehog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49092&oldid=49077 * AshuraTheHedgehog * (+224) Finished table.
21:25:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:AshuraTheHedgehog]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49093&oldid=49092 * AshuraTheHedgehog * (-7) Changed headers.
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21:42:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Calcutape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49094&oldid=49058 * AshuraTheHedgehog * (-1) /* Input */ correction
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