00:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> I'm thinking about extending http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3920 with (a) a more consensus-based system (rather than a single anomalous objection preventing the marriage, the entire assemblage must agree- so even if one person is 5 sigma against this marriage, if the other people lean towards it more than average then it is canceled out because people anti-object) and (b) an additional "trust factor" that allows the couple to
00:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> acknowledge that the groom's alcoholic brother Jeff's opinions really don't matter to them as much as the Bride's [kindly old Mother who's bravely fighting a terminal liver cancer so she can see her daughter married]'s opinion
00:03:08 <hppavilion[1]> Each guest to the wedding is entered into a database and associated with one party (either the bride or the groom)
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00:05:43 <hppavilion[1]> (+1s, by the way, are not permitted to object; people likely to go together are issued a "joint invitation" that serves essentially as 2 invitations without +1 capabilities OR as a single ticket with one permitted +1, rather than issuing one of them a standard invitation under the expectation that the other one will be their +1)
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00:08:21 <hppavilion[1]> Prior to the wedding, the bride and groom are taken into separate rooms and given a list of guests. For each guest, they assign that guest a trust rating (any nonnegative real number will do). Each party also has the option to mark guests associated with the other party as "null" or "mirror", which is basically saying "assign me at the same trust rating as my prospective spouse"
00:09:23 <myname> or, you know, they can just give a fuck about objections
00:09:38 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm humorously doing advanced statistics for weddings
00:11:12 <hppavilion[1]> (Let G be the set of all guests, G_B be the set of all guests associated with the bride, G_F be the set of all guests associated with the groom, T_B(g) be the bride's trust ratings (T_B : G -> R), and T_F(g) be the groom's trust ratings (id))
00:12:24 <hppavilion[1]> (note here that we're assuming a heterosexual marriage; homosexual marriages follow the same process, but should likely use a separate database of past objections for the time being, given the stigma)
00:12:42 <hppavilion[1]> (group marriages, I have no idea what to do, but it'd likely be similar)
00:15:34 <hppavilion[1]> Next, T_B(g) and T_F(g) are normalized to 100 with a standard deviation of 15
00:17:09 <hppavilion[1]> Let T(g) = (T'_B(g)+T'_F(g))/2, which represents overall trust
00:19:09 <hppavilion[1]> Then, at the part of the wedding ceremony where objections are given, each eligible guest submits an objection in the interval [0,1]
00:22:16 <hppavilion[1]> The standard wedding objection is calculated (take the output of this algorithm at all previous weddings, average them, subtract each individual wedding's result from the average, square these, divide by the total number of weddings, take the square root)
00:24:20 <hppavilion[1]> For each guest g, find T(g)*O(g)^2, sum these values, divide by T_mean*|G|, take the square root
00:25:06 <hppavilion[1]> Submit TO to the server for consideration in future weddings
00:25:24 <hppavilion[1]> With the earlier-found Standard Wedding Objection SO
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00:39:39 <boily> Kayryluu kerjanch!
00:43:43 <boily> I kept the "yr" theme from yesterday ^^
00:44:21 <oerjan> doesn't seem to have vowel harmony...
00:44:29 <boily> hint: transliterated.
00:45:30 <oerjan> hm but can y be a back vowel, otherwise i'd still say no vowel harmony.
00:45:32 <quintopia> is it one of those dying azerbaijani languages?
00:46:15 <oerjan> hm caucasian you mean?
00:46:33 <oerjan> i wouldn't know those, anyway :(
00:46:44 <quintopia> like Udi--only like 6600 recorded speakers
00:46:56 <oerjan> i'm just wondering if it could be a turkish language.
00:47:10 <boily> it is a Turkic language.
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00:48:13 <oerjan> hm i can rattle off some names that i'm not sure whether are turkic or indo-aryan
00:48:29 <oerjan> turkmen, uzbek or such
00:48:47 <oerjan> (i.e. those ex-cccp states)
00:48:59 <boily> not turkmen, not uzbek.
00:49:33 * oerjan might not be spelling them correctly, anyway
00:51:14 <quintopia> kazakh sounds like a hacking cough
00:51:41 <oerjan> azeri wasn't _officially_ mentioned yet, i think
00:52:38 <oerjan> i may be out of plausibly turkic language names :(
00:53:11 <boily> quintopia: it really sounds like a cough. /qɑˈzɑq/
00:53:16 <oerjan> the one state i forgot :P
00:53:54 <oerjan> nah kazakh is all apples
00:56:51 <oerjan> boily: i'm pretty sure either the cyrillic or the transliteration on omniglot's page is misspelled
00:57:14 <oerjan> (the y and r are swapped)
00:57:17 <fungot> boily: sorry if i seem brusque, but it doesn't rank very high on the richter scale? :) maybe its a charity fnord"
00:57:34 <boily> fungot: t'es pas brusque, juste un fungot.
00:57:34 <fungot> boily: how'd you do ( eval2...) with ( a c d) evaluate to zero when serialized))
01:00:11 <lynn> Wow, charity fnords
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01:03:13 <hppavilion[1]> How about first person narration, but using first-person plural pronouns ("we", "us")
01:03:47 * oerjan finds a kyrgyz word кайың on wiktionary, but its meaning is "birch"
01:04:33 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheVirginSuicides does that
01:05:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: have you ever read math papers those are like that hth
01:06:38 <hppavilion[1]> (anti-fiction is purer than non-fiction in that anti-fiction is definitely, 100%, provably objectively true, whereas non-fiction is laced with opinions and point-of-view bias)
01:06:41 <boily> math is fictional. ask any mathematician hth
01:11:50 <quintopia> but at least it's a fiction that's more consistent with humanity's perception of the behavior of the universe than any other fictions out there
01:12:08 <quintopia> i'll take "math says so" over "god says so" any day of the week
01:12:30 <oerjan> i find a claim that кайрылуу means "case", and that has more google hits than the original spelling.
01:12:53 <oerjan> boily: i'm starting to suspect that omniglot entry is nonsense :P
01:13:40 <oerjan> indeed, but the other words seems dubious.
01:13:58 <oerjan> hm maybe i should google the whole phrase.
01:16:01 <oerjan> unswapped has 382 hits, swapped 8.
01:18:09 <oerjan> the first became 29 after flipping pages.
01:18:45 <oerjan> it's so few you could suspect them all to come from the same flawed source.
01:19:50 <boily> fungot: which languages do you speak?
01:19:51 <fungot> boily: i think that syntactic environments are _much_ more easily expressed with one type of oo
01:19:58 <boily> oerjan: that wouldn't surprise me at all.
01:20:12 <boily> fungot: oo oo ooooooo ooo ō ooo?
01:20:12 <fungot> boily: i could be wrong, but lisppaste is at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ display/ 4532
01:21:15 <oerjan> fungot: i'm pretty sure boily's line wasn't lisp.
01:21:16 <fungot> oerjan: calamari's here. it's not the only barrier, if it somehow clears those two hw banging instructions, that bound instruction is likely to be that
01:22:42 <boily> fungot: oooh, calamari! calamari is delicious.
01:22:42 <fungot> boily: no, sorry, heh :) well, i'm with jeffie there. ( irc limitations)
01:22:43 <oerjan> otoh the phrases in omniglot are provided by someone with an appropriate sounding name...
01:22:52 <boily> fungot: yes it is.
01:22:52 <fungot> boily: might i ask what this is doing here
01:23:03 <boily> fungot: it is doing being flavourful hth
01:23:04 <fungot> boily: i'm also wondering whether perhaps other browsers are a bit less than males can get pregnant with some caos
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01:23:11 <boily> oerjan: sounds legit.
01:23:57 <oerjan> boily: i don't calamari wants you to eat him, otoh he hasn't been here in a long while.
01:24:57 * oerjan thinks the fnords are stealing his words
01:24:57 * boily tripped on oerjan's sentence. brain sprain.
01:27:18 <boily> fungot: haven't you ever wished to swap fnords and fjords, maybe just for a day?
01:27:18 <fungot> boily: xhtml doesn't render portably. hence the slowness in modern machines is due to the choice to use c++ analogies)
01:27:21 <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to make Greece an independent country
01:27:46 <boily> hppavellon[1]. eh?
01:28:14 <oerjan> boily: wikitravel suggests the more logical (given the other entries in omniglot) Kutmanduu kechingiz menen.
01:28:29 <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to tell Greece that we're making Lesbos an independent country
01:30:15 <oerjan> boily: i think fnord should be inflected the same as icelandic fjord, anyway.
01:30:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think they like to spell it Lesvos these days, for obvious reasons.
01:31:51 <boily> fjord, fjordn, fjordr, fjordet, fjordar...
01:31:54 <oerjan> `addquote <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to make Greece an independent country
01:31:56 <HackEgo> 1288) <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to make Greece an independent country
01:32:52 <hppavilion[1]> I am of the opinion that using s/// isn't just correct a mistake- it undoes it
01:33:06 <hppavilion[1]> Once s/// has been used, the mistake is erased from all of time and space
01:33:12 <oerjan> i am of the opposite opinion hth
01:33:18 <boily> shh... is okay now... you will be PDFed...
01:34:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: anyway, you are now in the quotes in the proud tradition of itidus hth
01:34:09 <HackEgo> 394) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent <oklopol> for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 415) <itidus20> monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 416) <monqy> itidus20: i s
01:35:02 <HackEgo> 240) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
01:35:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we have no disproof of that hth
01:37:08 <oerjan> <boily> fjord, fjordn, fjordr, fjordet, fjordar... <-- no, it's more glorious than that. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fj%C3%B6r%C3%B0ur
01:40:14 <boily> I couldn't have dreamt it better.
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02:11:35 <Sgeo> kmc linked to this: http://inutile.club/estatis/falso/
02:13:01 <alercah> the best thing about Falso is that it is consistent
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02:19:33 <zzo38> How can it be consistent if everything is true?
02:20:56 <Sgeo> zzo38, that's easy to prove, just use the axiom
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02:27:49 <HackEgo> Ashura: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:28:58 <Ashura> Javascript quine: !function $(){console.log("!" + $ + "()")}()
02:30:23 <Ashura> I don't know if a quine is possible in Bugmaker.
02:32:02 <Ashura> Instead of writing "SET X = 1 + 1", you'd have to write "DO SET THE VARIABLE NAMED X = EXACTLY 1 + 1 NOW".
02:35:55 <zzo38> Let's see if we can make a quine with the standard TAVERN compiler? (It is a program I wrote but I did not intend to make a quine out of it)
02:37:06 <zzo38> (To see if it can be done without having the program read its own source file at compile time)
02:37:42 <HackEgo> U+0001 <control> \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal:  \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 <control> \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0086 <control> \ UTF-8: c2 86 UTF-16BE: 0086 Decimal: † \ \ Category: Cc (Ot
02:43:02 <Ashura> Try to run THIS: ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.
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02:51:56 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.
02:52:20 <oerjan> `! bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.
02:52:55 <oerjan> Ashura: seems a bit heavy
02:53:10 <oerjan> is it supposed to write more than 3 letters
02:54:36 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ \ # Get the bitwidth from the command \ BW=`echo "$I_CMD" | sed 's/.*bf//'` \ if [ "$BW" = "" ] ; then BW=8 ; fi \ \ interp_file ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi$BW
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02:56:23 <oerjan> `` \! 'bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.' | ord
03:03:19 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:03:36 * oerjan has no idea why that would timeout.
03:04:08 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:04:33 <oerjan> i think there's a bug, but it still shouldn't timeout.
03:04:49 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:06:08 <oerjan> i think fungot has trouble :(
03:06:58 <fungot> oerjan: ( fun with scope!), and the " include " prescheme.h"" line is not.
03:07:17 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:08:12 <HackEgo> [U+002E FULL STOP] [U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+2014 EM DASH] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+003C LESS-THAN SIGN] [U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN]
03:08:55 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[-->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:09:04 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[--->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:09:53 <oerjan> Ashura: your --- got turned into an em dash by some too-clever editor, me thinks.
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03:13:50 <oerjan> my curse of bad timing hits again. now food ->
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03:23:39 <hppavilion[1]> "Liberal conservatism is a political ideology combining conservative policies with liberal stances"
03:25:13 <hppavilion[1]> So... "The gays should be allowed to get married, and if President, I promise to get Congress to pass a law defining marriage as between one man, one woman, with additional taxes every year the mother isn't Pregnant or actively raising a child under the age of 4, and both must be virgins"
03:30:35 <alercah> alt-right is a specific group of people who self-identify
03:30:47 <alercah> it's not an "academic" (read: outside) term
03:31:44 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: Well also, the "alt-right" is a branch of the Right with certain distinguishing characteristics
03:32:06 <hppavilion[1]> So the alt-left would be a part of the left with similar (or analogous) characteristics
03:32:34 <\oren\> alt-right used to be a tiny group of twitter trolls that grew out of gay nazis and gamergate
03:33:24 <\oren\> now that hillary has mentioned them on a national stage, they are becoming a giant group that will influence american politics for yers to come
03:33:34 <alercah> gamergate was kind of ok when it was about ethics in journalism
03:33:39 <alercah> the moment it wasn't it should have died
03:33:49 <alercah> (that is, the moment it was revealed it was false)
03:34:47 <\oren\> hillary mentioning "alt-right" on a national stage was giant blunder imo, because now the trump voters have a label that they can carry even if trump loses
03:36:05 <\oren\> it was equivalent to creating a viral meme against your own ideology
03:36:32 <hppavilion[1]> The alt-right is associated with white nationalism, white supremacism, antisemitism, right-wing populism, nativism, and the neoreactionary movement
03:37:45 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: anyway, the alt right will grow to just mean people who voted for trump in this election
03:37:47 <hppavilion[1]> (assuming feminists in this context mean third wavers. Classical (first-wave, maybe second-wave) feminism is cool.)
03:38:21 <hppavilion[1]> So the alt-left would be overly multicultural/diversity-yay (not to the point of "yeah, diversity is cool", but more "if your thing isn't diverse enough you're a bad person"- affirmative action and such)
03:38:36 <\oren\> or maybe a raaction to that
03:39:00 <hppavilion[1]> White responsibilitism (or whatever), which is "today's whites are responsible for our ancestors oppressing today's blacks ancestors, and should have to pay reparation
03:39:34 <hppavilion[1]> antisemitism becomes... not sure, yelling "islamophobia" whenever someone criticizes Islam?
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03:40:26 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: keep in mind that alt-right isn't a more extreme version of right
03:40:37 <hppavilion[1]> right-wing populism into... I guess the "if you don't let people freely immigrate from the middle east you're a racist"
03:40:48 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it rejects many aspects of normal american right-wing
03:41:14 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: It's the right, rotated 15 to 30 degrees clockwise, I think?
03:41:16 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: for example, the alt-right are pro-gay rights
03:41:58 <\oren\> yes, one of their main proponents is a certain gay reporter named milo yiannopoulos aka "@nero"
03:42:37 <hppavilion[1]> Not entirely agreeable, but a lot of the people against him (going around and tearing down posters for his events) are worse
03:43:05 <hppavilion[1]> And I guess right-wing populism also becomes "the status quo is necessarily bad"
03:43:15 <hppavilion[1]> Preserving the status quo isn't a bad thing when you have a utopia
03:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> Nativism becomes... I guess "immigrants should have a favored status to native citizens", but I don't think even the SJWs have that...
03:45:55 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, yeah, I share about... 40% of conflicted opinions with him?
03:47:13 <hppavilion[1]> She has an organization that "helps women who have been prosecuted for killing violent male partners."
03:47:20 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, sure, but what if the genders are inverted?
03:48:50 <alercah> yeah abusive relationships are one of the few cases where there's actual legitimate sexism in favour of women
03:49:14 <alercah> iirc they cut roughtly equally both ways
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04:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to remember hearing that the Violence Against Women Act established that law enforcement has to use a specific test to determine action in domestic abuse calls
04:04:33 <hppavilion[1]> And it assumes the guilt of a man, innocence of a woman
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04:22:45 <alercah> "8) NONEXCLUSIVITY.—Nothing in this title shall be construed
04:22:46 <alercah> to prohibit male victims of domestic violence, dating
04:22:46 <alercah> violence, sexual assault, and stalking from receiving benefits
04:22:46 <alercah> and services under this title.
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06:09:15 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, people can identify satire when they see it online
06:09:43 <Hoolootwo> it is 100% possible to troll so hard that nobody notices
06:12:17 <zzo38> I am not so sure of either
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06:15:04 <oerjan> i'll just assume hppavilion[1] is applying poe's law to itself.
06:16:23 <oerjan> also, i thought the point was that it is 100% possible to have so crazy really opinions that everybody suspects you're doing satire.
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06:17:16 <Hoolootwo> yes, which is functionally very similar to having really crazy satire and everybody suspecting you have really crazy opinions
06:17:21 <oerjan> you know, i'm starting to tire of how irssi shows only part of the line i'm writing, so i keep making these garden path errors.
06:17:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well, that's a possible Corollary to Poe's law, but it doesn't directly follow
06:17:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's not a corollary, it's a lemma that's part of its proof hth
06:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> We must also assume that trolls are indistinguishable from genuine believers beyond content (so trolls don't just have linguistic flags or somesuch)
06:19:17 <oerjan> that's not always the case
06:20:17 <oerjan> many people troll without enough depth of knowledge to be convincing.
06:21:04 <hppavilion[1]> What sufficiently advanced thing is indistinguishable from /dark/ magic?
06:21:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: grey goo hth
06:22:21 <hppavilion[1]> When I build world-eating nanobots, I will make sure they are hot pink
06:22:35 <oerjan> also, artificial black holes.
06:25:59 <Hoolootwo> except the people here will see it coming
06:27:57 <oerjan> just spread a virus that modifies color vision first
06:28:02 * hppavilion[1] reaches for his swatter, but then realized he is not oerjan
06:28:49 * oerjan has no idea how people mix us up, anyway.
06:29:20 <Hoolootwo> maybe you have nearly identically-pronounced names
06:29:39 <Hoolootwo> as long as you don't speak english hth
06:30:45 <oerjan> you mean as long as you _do_ speak english.
06:31:50 <hppavilion[1]> No, "or-en" and "oh-er-jan (yan?)" are pretty different in English
06:32:23 <Hoolootwo> I pronounce internet people's names as if they're German and I have no idea why
06:32:35 <Hoolootwo> my first language is english so that's super weird
06:32:39 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: I just don't read them out loud, and pronunciation stays in my head
06:33:30 <Hoolootwo> yeah, that too, but I pronounce them in my head (or something?)
06:33:31 <hppavilion[1]> (people sometimes pronounce "hppavilion1" as "hap-pavilion one"; it should be pronounced "H. P. pavilion one"
06:34:22 <Hoolootwo> you'd have to know about Hewlett-Packard to get it right on the first try
06:34:53 <hppavilion[1]> "This year there are no rules. There are, however, a whole bunch of brutal laws, traditions, commandments, and decrees, plus some rules."
06:35:06 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: Yeah, and no one will know about that soon
06:35:15 <hppavilion[1]> The business will die, and I'll swoop in and buy the trademark
06:36:19 <Hoolootwo> hmm, I should buy their calculator division
06:41:36 <oerjan> i'd recommend getting their addition and multiplication too
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07:01:46 <\oren\> I wonder what will happen if I do this:
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07:03:45 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\357\277\276"'
07:03:49 <hppavilion[1]> (Never think about kid's TV too much. I tried to figure out how the name "Uncle Grandpa" works.)
07:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> (your parents would need to be an uncle/niece or aunt/nephew pair, with UG the sibling of one and the parent of the other)
07:04:43 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\357\277\276\302\244"'
07:05:08 <\oren\> apparently irssi is unaware that FFFE isn't a valid character
07:05:45 <\oren\> So I will need a glyph for it in my font
07:18:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: my uncle once was married to my aunt's boyfriend's daughter, that _almost_ makes my aunt both aunt and grandma to some of my cousins hth
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07:20:43 <oerjan> oh and i guess her boyfriend was both uncle and grandpa, then.
07:21:00 <oerjan> (almost. i don't think they got married.)
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07:37:40 <izabera> writing a sort(1) is hard x.x
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08:06:45 <lifthrasiir> I believe GNU sort (and probably others) is using mergesort with a certain amount of data buffered for the potentially faster algorithm
08:08:01 <lifthrasiir> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/sort.c ...and holy cow it's a lot of code
08:08:55 <int-e> well, external sorting... perallel sorting... lots of code to support various key comparisons... it all adds up
08:09:09 <int-e> (just looking at the manpage)
08:09:26 <hppavilion[1]> I just learned about Democratic White House High School AU,
08:09:27 <izabera> the annoying part is that each key can be sorted indipendently
08:09:34 <int-e> why haven't I used sort -h
08:09:34 <hppavilion[1]> It looks like it was on Livejournal, and I can't access it
08:09:48 <izabera> like, you can sort key 1 numerically, then one alphabetically in reverse order, etc
08:10:29 <izabera> and e.g. you can do -k1.4,1.7n
08:10:40 <izabera> which sorts numerically on the first key from character 4 to 7
08:10:56 <int-e> so you have a key description and an interpreter for it... perhaps 70 lines of code in addition to the basic comparisons?
08:10:58 <hppavilion[1]> (changing the idea a bit for more funny), typical politicians are students, the Media forms teachers ("Who do you have for FTFO?" "Mr. Stewart")
08:11:32 <izabera> int-e: the rest of my sort is ~130 lines so adding 70 is a lot
08:12:26 <hppavilion[1]> US government in a high school. I would love that.
08:12:40 <Jafet> don't forget to sort according to the current locale
08:12:47 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I should join the school's student government. As Secretary of Defence. )
08:14:47 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], my uni's SU once had a pirate president
08:21:04 <izabera> and the most boring answer award goes to...
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08:27:20 <Taneb> izabera, it's not that boring, it used to have a pirate president
08:29:11 <izabera> pirate as in installing photoshop or as in one piece?
08:30:21 <Taneb> Closer to the latter
08:31:11 <shachaf> maybe closer to eight pieces?
08:35:38 <Taneb> https://youtu.be/S3a7Q9GowoQ?t=27
08:43:01 <Taneb> Apparently he was fairly good as student union presidents go
08:46:08 <izabera> their acting could use some improvements
08:51:03 <myname> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/keystroke_recog.html creepy
08:53:10 <izabera> isn't everything on that blog creepy?
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10:43:22 <fungot> b_jonas: ( fnord object object message args)) would be the
10:43:58 <b_jonas> fungot: it's not quite *that* simple
10:43:58 <fungot> b_jonas: eval ( call-with-values ( lambda ( x) x
10:44:20 <HackEgo> eurovision//Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing.
10:45:49 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=man-to-man
10:45:49 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=man-to-man: b_jonas
10:46:42 <b_jonas> nice! Savage Chickens is celebrating its 3000th strip
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13:35:52 <HackEgo> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
13:36:08 <HackEgo> make: *** No rule to make target `it'. Stop.
13:40:31 <gamemanj> I think make wants you to stop
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13:49:42 <HackEgo> make: *** No rule to make target `dead'. Stop.
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14:18:58 <myname> https://gist.github.com/forairan/b1143f42883b3b0ee1237bc9bd0b7b2c
14:20:16 <b_jonas> fungot, did you know I'm older than Linux?
14:20:16 <fungot> b_jonas: presumably you read the sisc documentation doesn't seem to work together is to convince some pirate that acm actually stores porn. main difference being in the same running sisc process?
14:20:44 <myname> b_jonas: nothing to brag. i am as old as perl!
14:21:47 <b_jonas> myname: you can you tell? nobody knows how old perl is, because the history of perl before perl 1 is classified.
14:22:24 <myname> based on the release date noted on wikipedia
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15:52:34 <HackEgo> Sigarda's Aid \ W \ Enchantment \ You may cast Aura and Equipment spells as though they had flash. \ Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may attach it to target creature you control. \ EMN-R
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16:31:52 <\oren\> Falcon 9 exploded on launchpad
16:32:18 <\oren\> payload lost, launch tower probably also lost
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16:34:27 <b_jonas> \oren\: an investigation will be launched
16:36:01 <gamemanj> in happier news, FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A!
16:36:55 <zzo38> What are those numbers for?
16:37:08 <\oren\> `` xxd -rp <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A"
16:37:09 <HackEgo> â...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................øô.åÿ.ÿÀGZ
16:37:26 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A"
16:38:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:38:44 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" >gunzip -
16:38:49 <gamemanj> b_jonas: Do alert me when you want the hint.
16:38:51 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" |gunzip -
16:38:51 <HackEgo> \ gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
16:39:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
16:39:40 <b_jonas> gamemanj: that looks like an MPEG header
16:39:59 <gamemanj> In fact, they explicitly did things to the sync code,
16:40:08 <b_jonas> it's probably not a whole MPEG file (or some trivially empty one), it's too small for that
16:40:09 <gamemanj> so that an MPEG decoder would NOT get it confused.
16:40:40 <gamemanj> Also note that this format usually has framing, but if you pass it to the decoder, it'll accept it anyway.
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16:41:58 <b_jonas> gamemanj: is it a bug test case, as in, a file that gets some mpeg player or other program confused and crash or something?
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16:42:18 <gamemanj> It's a totally legitimate file, if you discount the lack of header.
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16:43:35 <b_jonas> gamemanj: apparently it might be an audio-only file
16:43:45 <zzo38> My own computer says AAC (although I have no program to play such a file)
16:44:31 <b_jonas> I don't have a speaker here, so I can't listen to it
16:44:51 <b_jonas> but it does seem to start to play without errors
16:45:04 <gamemanj> If you want to cheat, Audacity should open it, though if it'll recognize it without the right file extension...
16:45:15 <b_jonas> apparently it's a very small audio file you can actually play
16:45:31 <gamemanj> Look, if it's 4.096 seconds, then you have the right format.
16:45:51 <b_jonas> but I don't know what it contains
16:46:05 <zzo38> SoX fails to determine the type. I do not have Audacity.
16:46:06 <gamemanj> Well, I messed around until it sounded OK.
16:46:16 <gamemanj> It kind of sounds like a radio being tuned or something.
16:46:17 <b_jonas> gamemanj: but how can it be so small?
16:46:27 <gamemanj> b_jonas: I manually tuned the LPC parameters!
16:46:34 <gamemanj> And then looked at what comes out!
16:46:39 <gamemanj> Also, I did say I omitted the header.
16:46:53 <gamemanj> I don't know. Something about "linear prediction".
16:47:02 <b_jonas> yes, it's just flac without a container, but that's fine, I'm used to such media files
16:47:10 <\oren\> vlc doesn't play it with file extention flac
16:47:17 <b_jonas> you need containers if you want to seek or have multiple streams or metadata or such things
16:47:30 <gamemanj> You may need a container to play it with some media players
16:47:43 <gamemanj> I can put it in a container if you want, it shouldn't be too hard to engineer one
16:47:48 <b_jonas> gamemanj: some media players probably can't play it no matter what
16:47:56 <b_jonas> I mean, some media players don't play FLAC at all
16:48:19 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I could put it to a container too, but the wonderful part is how small it is, and that would be lost
16:48:34 <zzo38> I can play FLAC on my computer but I don't know if it might not play without the header?
16:48:53 <zzo38> I don't have Audacity
16:48:59 <b_jonas> oh, and for some formats, you need a container to explicitly tell what the video framerate is, because the video format only stores a sequence of images without timestamps or framerate
16:49:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh by the way, I wanted to ask,
16:49:20 <zzo38> What options do I need for SoX to load it? If I write -t flac then it says sampling rate was not specified
16:49:34 <gamemanj> zzo38: Again, use flac -d, or prepend a header.
16:49:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: could you figure out that css html multi-columns thing?
16:49:43 <b_jonas> zzo38: should I give a hint about the sound file?
16:49:50 <zzo38> b_jonas: No I did not figure out the HTML multi-columns
16:50:15 <zzo38> OK give the hint; it seems SoX won't load it though
16:50:20 <gamemanj> b_jonas: A hint about the sound file? It's FLAC. You all know that now :)
16:50:29 <gamemanj> SoX probably wants a container.
16:50:29 <b_jonas> gamemanj: about how to play or convert
16:50:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: play with ffplay (of ffmpeg)
16:50:48 <b_jonas> ffmpeg is generally the best to load strange or partly broken media files
16:50:55 <b_jonas> it will open stuff other programs won't
16:51:00 <gamemanj> and it has a nice visualization, too
16:51:03 <b_jonas> you can also use ffmpeg to put it to a container probably
16:51:18 <gamemanj> b_jonas: -c copy will do it without even losing the size
16:51:58 <b_jonas> gamemanj: you still need a container, any container must add to the size
16:52:18 <gamemanj> Well, yeah, but it'll still remain smaller than if it was reencoded
16:52:31 <zzo38> I suppose I will have to install those programs if I want to be able to play such file. (Fortunately I can install them; they are included in the package manager)
16:52:31 <gamemanj> At least if it wasn't failing because ffmpeg (unlike ffplay) doesn't like it...
16:55:32 <\oren\> successfully converted to mp3
16:56:06 <gamemanj> I have found a problem with writing a header - it requires me to decode the file to get the MD5.
16:57:22 <b_jonas> gamemanj: mind you, ffplay also thinks the sound is very short
16:57:43 <gamemanj> b_jonas: 4.096 seconds is correct.
16:58:04 <b_jonas> gamemanj: dunno, with -autoexit it exits in a blink (definitely under a second)
16:58:19 <b_jonas> without -autoexit it plays past the end
16:58:24 <gamemanj> Not a clue what's going on there then.
16:58:34 <gamemanj> Maybe it just doesn't like the lack of a container (and thus a fixed size)
16:58:56 <b_jonas> gamemanj: right, could guess wrong about something that should be in the container header
16:59:24 <\oren\> try naming the file x.flac
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17:01:19 <Jafet> is it not easier to encode silence?
17:01:45 <\oren\> Jafet: that would depend on the format
17:02:30 <Jafet> flac has a model for silence
17:02:41 <Jafet> https://xiph.org/flac/format.html#prediction
17:02:47 <\oren\> I mean, in musical notation, silence and any given note take the same amount od space
17:03:12 <b_jonas> are there two people in here who play with the details of the flac format?
17:04:07 <\oren\> a channel for digital esotericism
17:04:17 <Jafet> does playing since two minutes ago count?
17:04:34 <Jafet> flac frame format: now playing
17:04:56 <gamemanj> Jafet: it may be easier to encode silence, but that's less fun
17:05:30 <gamemanj> I mean, there's a specific subframe type for "absolutely nothing but one sample for however long"
17:05:40 <gamemanj> doesn't make it a good idea, though.
17:05:46 <\oren\> I guess this signal is the raw prediction out of one of the more advanced predictors?
17:06:06 <Jafet> it's used for encoding, well, actual digital silence
17:06:21 <gamemanj> Jafet: exactly, so it's no fun
17:06:48 <Jafet> like between singles
17:07:09 <gamemanj> \oren\: SUBFRAME_FIXED, order 3 (the missing -1 on _FIXED is NOT a documentation error), warmup 0x7FFF, 0x8000, 0x7FFF, no residual.
17:08:06 <gamemanj> Well, I say "no residual", what I mean is, RICE-1, partition order 0, escape code, 0-bit. Apparently no residual is a rare enough case they had to make it take 15 bits to encode.
17:09:57 <b_jonas> gamemanj: this might explain why the length isn't known and ffplay assumes it's very short
17:10:06 <b_jonas> but keeps continuing to play
17:10:31 <gamemanj> The length of it is described as the block size.
17:10:42 <Jafet> the reason for that is probably because there is no flac metadata
17:14:21 <gamemanj> huh, adding the header and double-checking it's correct makes Audacity act differently (it's somehow making it 1-bit)
17:14:29 <gamemanj> not sure what's going on there
17:16:15 <gamemanj> Hmm, except I set the file to 16-bit. I think 8-bit is possible but I had some issues with it, so I just took the path of least resistance.
17:17:02 <gamemanj> ok, what the... the sample dots aren't even showing up
17:17:09 <gamemanj> it's like it amped it up too high
17:17:49 <gamemanj> yep, Audacity amped it up too high
17:19:57 <gamemanj> Still, for anyone who wants to waste a bunch of extra bytes,
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17:20:52 <gamemanj> my goodness, that is one long header
17:21:02 <gamemanj> 00: 66 4c 61 43 80 00 00 22 80 00 80 00 00 00 00 00
17:21:10 <gamemanj> 10: 00 00 01 f4 00 f0 00 00 80 00 1c 06 a4 4c 0f 38
17:21:19 <gamemanj> 20: bc 47 61 ab 33 ce 65 76 04 b1
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17:21:54 <gamemanj> 2A: ff f8 f4 08 00 e5 16 7f ff 80 00 7f ff 03 c0 47 5a
17:22:23 <Jafet> can you overlap the md5 entry with the frame itself
17:22:49 <Jafet> that's unfortunate
17:22:51 <gamemanj> even if you had an MD5 that ended in FF F8
17:23:02 <b_jonas> gamemanj: can you use some other container?
17:23:06 <Jafet> it looks like the metadata header is fixed-size
17:23:17 <Jafet> you can use vorbis, but that is going to be even bigger
17:23:32 <gamemanj> vorbis is a totally different codec, and if you mean Ogg, that will be tons bigger
17:23:46 <gamemanj> because you'll get the Ogg page headers, supplementary headers dragged in by FLAC
17:24:15 <gamemanj> I just tested, the result was 202 bytes
17:24:24 <zzo38> Well, now SoX recognizes it as FLAC, but says error whilst decoding metadata
17:25:03 <gamemanj> zzo38: working fine for me on SoX...
17:25:43 <gamemanj> keep in mind the 00 / 10 / 20 / 2A are just address info
17:26:48 <gamemanj> The header should be 42 bytes, the frame should be 17.
17:28:07 <gamemanj> also I have apparently created an unpausable FLAC file, or at least in VLC anyway. Plus, the Ogg-container version won't load in VLC.
17:29:01 <zzo38> Replacing "xxd -r -p" with "utftovlq 48" has the same result and still doesn't work.
17:29:18 <zzo38> (I also tried both of these versions with hd, and the data is same as above in both cases.)
17:29:20 <gamemanj> Maybe double-check the hexdump?
17:30:20 <b_jonas> it's fun to see webpages with between 500 and 30000 pages all numbered with continuous indexes in the url, and a table of contents that ALMOST covers a range of natural numbers for the indexes
17:30:20 <gamemanj> here's it without any room for error, just in case I messed up:
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000000 66 4c 61 43 80 00 00 22 80 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 |fLaC..."........|
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000010 00 00 01 f4 00 f0 00 00 80 00 1c 06 a4 4c 0f 38 |.............L.8|
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000020 bc 47 61 ab 33 ce 65 76 04 b1 ff f8 f4 08 00 e5 |.Ga.3.ev........|
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000030 16 7f ff 80 00 7f ff 03 c0 47 5a |.........GZ|
17:30:31 <b_jonas> you can look at what the hidden pages missing from the table of contents are
17:31:38 <zzo38> That is exactly what I have.
17:31:49 * gamemanj has no clue what is wrong with the file
17:32:13 <gamemanj> somehow I wrote the MD5 signature incorrectly into the file
17:33:39 <gamemanj> so now I'm going to have to find some way of making absolutely sure I cut up this WAV file in exactly the right way, including endianness,
17:33:48 <gamemanj> so that I get the right MD5 at the end of it
17:34:23 <gamemanj> it would be nice if the "Other Uncompressed Files" option in Audacity wasn't making this harder by omitting important information. To SoX!
17:34:40 <gamemanj> (via the "flac" command-line tool)
17:36:23 <gamemanj> (some copying and pasting, especially of ",0x", later...)
17:37:03 <gamemanj> ERROR: md5 signature mismatch.
17:37:55 <gamemanj> Reversing the signature migh---ERROR: md5 signature mismatch.
17:38:12 <Jafet> wow, do players actually check the md5 digest
17:38:42 <gamemanj> the "flac" command-line tool does, and goodness knows how far that mess has spread
17:38:57 <gamemanj> after all, it's basically a self-test to ensure the decoder's working correctly
17:39:04 <Jafet> I guess libflac might
17:39:17 <gamemanj> otherwise you could end up with *gasp* slightly modified audio data!
17:41:03 <b_jonas> In this case, half of the hidden pages are broken, and half are apparently omitted because the code making the toc is broken
17:41:58 <gamemanj> Well, that can't be good for research.
17:43:24 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, it's a nice way to make automatic self-tests for unusual configurations (eg. strange operating systems or compilation options)
17:44:25 <gamemanj> "A passing neutron hit their FLAC files, and modifying a VERBATIM segment, it became... not the true audio!"
17:44:54 <gamemanj> (All scientific inaccuracies intentional.)
17:45:08 <b_jonas> gamemanj: no, seriously, it's for detecting bugs that only come up when both the system is unusual and the file is. those bugs wouldn't normally be reported, because people would just assume the audio file they're playing is broken.
17:45:43 <gamemanj> Fair enough, though if both the system and the file are unusual, fun may occur.
17:46:22 <gamemanj> Now, if the system is unusual enough that something goes wrong in the decoder, it's pretty bad from a "completely, 100%, lossless" standpoint.
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17:51:16 <Jafet> stop making fun of people who merely want bit-for-bit reproduction of their rick rubin albums
17:56:38 <zzo38> Idea of new Magic: the Gathering card: The next time a nontoken Aura dies this turn, you may cast it.
17:56:42 <zzo38> (I don't know what cost or name)
18:03:28 <gamemanj> Jafet: I'm more concerned about signal processing, where there may be a good use case for lossless files.
18:08:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:199.15.233.156]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
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18:18:10 <\oren\> gamemanj: right, video/music editing would produce very bad results if every operation involved decoding and reencoding with lossage
18:25:00 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/_BgJEXQkjNQ
18:25:32 <\oren\> it seems that the upper stage oxygen tank may have exploded, which caused the rest to fail
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18:29:20 <izabera> i found some non-gpl code with a comment "[...] copied from linux"
18:29:33 <izabera> which in this case is likely to refer to glibc
18:29:49 <izabera> but i don't know how old a version of glibc
18:31:17 <gamemanj> Where is this code, and why are you using it?
18:32:46 <izabera> suppose i don't/can't show it
18:34:20 <gamemanj> Well... if it's under uncertain legal terms, why is it in the codebase?
18:43:44 <gamemanj> Under this scenario, I'd probably excise it from the codebase if at all possible.
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18:44:11 <gamemanj> If it's a routine from glibc, though, it may be possible to simply refer to the routine.
18:44:16 <gamemanj> If it's actually accessible...
18:44:17 <wob_jonas> izabera: is it in code that you intend to eventually distribute, as opposed to code you're just using in house?
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18:44:35 <izabera> it has already been distributed
18:45:05 <wob_jonas> izabera: try to contact its author or maintainer maybe?
18:45:25 <gamemanj> Is it being distributed as source?
18:45:45 <gamemanj> we will not speak of this. understood?
18:46:12 <gamemanj> There. Problem solved. And now for a 100-verse scrawl on beer.
18:46:18 <gamemanj> 99 bottles of beer, sitting on the wall
18:46:23 <wob_jonas> izabera: maybe look at whether it's copied to glibc from some other source that is under a less restricted license?
18:46:35 <wob_jonas> or whether you can find a replacement code that does something similar
18:46:43 <gamemanj> 99 bottles of beer, sitting on the wall, and if one should happen, to accidentally fall..
18:46:55 <wob_jonas> izabera: why not? you can try to look at comments in the file in glibc in case they tell that
18:47:59 <wob_jonas> I don't know if glibc has such pieces of code, but it certainly happens in other gpl-ed software
18:48:06 <wob_jonas> that's what the free software licenses are for
18:48:27 <gamemanj> I personally would use a force-push to try and excise it's very existence, and then have it under a gentleperson's agreement that nobody says anything. Push the existence of the glibc code down the memory hole.
18:49:04 <gamemanj> Seriously, though, if it's already in released builds, and it's actually GPL'd code, there is nothing you can do.
18:49:32 <izabera> it's been in released builds for several years
18:50:06 <gamemanj> Given you said there's no source distribution going on, it's probably already a violation of the GPL.
18:50:28 <gamemanj> So you'll probably want to remove the code ASAP and pretend it never existed.
18:51:11 <gamemanj> Because, you know, writing "Oh we were violating the GPL but we fixed that now" into a changelog is not a good idea.
18:52:31 <gamemanj> wob_jonas: I'm assuming izabera's priorities involve keeping a job.
18:55:16 <gamemanj> Also, izabera, never tell us who you work for. Ever.
18:55:53 <izabera> i didn't say that this is happening where i work
18:56:23 <gamemanj> Huh, ok. It just seemed that way, given the whole "released binary only product going for several years" thing
19:01:41 <wob_jonas> izabera: great, you get this plausible deniability thing
19:01:53 <\oren\> nInE nIn botLs uv bEr on Du wol, nInE nIn botLs uv bEr. if wun uv Dos botLs Sud hapN tU fol, nInE At botLs uv bEr on Du wol
19:02:26 <Jafet> that sounds like a rather tipsy transcription
19:02:28 <wob_jonas> mind you, since you already said it's not distributed as a source, but you read a source comment, so there aren't that many possibilities remaining
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19:05:01 <\oren\> oh, I guess some people pronounce ninety nIndE and not nInE
19:06:25 <\oren\> actually, since my dialect doesn't have t in botLs it should just be boLs
19:06:51 <Jafet> balls to the walls
19:07:31 <\oren\> yeah that's the closest approximation
19:12:56 <\oren\> I have no idea why but toronto english seems to slur the hell out of everything
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19:15:49 <\oren\> slR Du hel Wt uv evrETiG
19:16:08 <gamemanj> in less sane happier news, apparently warmup 6000 5FFF 6000 5FFF creates random noise.
19:16:48 <gamemanj> Except it's not quite random noise.
19:17:14 <gamemanj> There's little circles here and there showing it was at some point meant to resemble sound.
19:17:28 <\oren\> is it somehow tricking the decoder into reading uninitialized memory
19:17:39 <gamemanj> At least, not as far as I know, anyway.
19:17:56 <gamemanj> Should I just upload a screenshot of it in Audacity?
19:18:04 <gamemanj> I think it explains more than anything else what's going on...
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19:19:29 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: apparently 6000 5FFF 6000 5FFF in a flac file creates random looking noise
19:19:54 <\oren\> gamemanj is investigating this
19:20:16 <gamemanj> Well, not so much random looking
19:20:24 <gamemanj> when you look at it it's clearly not random
19:21:15 <gamemanj> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/butterfly.png
19:21:43 <gamemanj> I'm pretty sure there's some overflows involved here.
19:22:57 <gamemanj> Also it's not just those 8 bytes
19:23:10 <gamemanj> Those are just the warmup constants I used, you have to have the stuff around them
19:23:30 <gamemanj> The total FLAC frame is 18 bytes
19:24:01 <gamemanj> FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 18 60 00 5F FF 60 00 5F FF 03 C0 FC 5C
19:24:42 <gamemanj> It's interesting that it acts kind of like it has a "velocity" of some sort
19:25:02 <gamemanj> and then the "velocity" gets so high that it just acts like a decrement instead of an increment
19:26:30 <gamemanj> there's also a bit where it actually stops sounding like noise
19:26:56 <gamemanj> and then it goes back to being noise again
19:27:21 <gamemanj> course, it's only 0.01 long, so it's just a click before it gets back to being noise-like again
19:28:30 <Jafet> that's just the fractional part of a polynomial, isn't it
19:29:05 <wob_jonas> Jafet: no, it's exponential, sort of like those quadratic recursion random generators
19:29:13 <\oren\> the thing has a cusp when its slope get high wnough
19:30:36 <\oren\> I bet it's something like x+=v;v+=a;x=x%1;
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19:31:40 <\oren\> v is some sort of wraparound int
19:31:59 <\oren\> that would explain why the value suddenly switches direction
19:33:06 <\oren\> in other news, for some reason, yesterday I decided to make a crappy calculator
19:38:44 <Phantom_Hoover> just track through how the flac algorithm decodes those bytes
19:39:02 <gamemanj> I mean, you could just look at the code
19:39:10 <gamemanj> the file doesn't even use complicated coefficients,
19:40:04 <Phantom_Hoover> also the graph you posted is clearly a smooth curve modulo something
19:40:49 <gamemanj> there's something that looks like a sine wave in it
19:41:27 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: there always is, in a periodic function
19:42:18 <Phantom_Hoover> gamemanj, imo try lifting those samples you have to see the underlying curve
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19:45:14 <\oren\> testing this stupid calculator
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19:46:12 <APNG> oh btw anyone wanna try an IRC-based esolang? https://github.com/SoniEx2/CTCP-S/blob/master/ctcp-s.md#sub
19:46:15 <Phantom_Hoover> yes but that was fairly clear after the first few failed attempts
19:46:29 <APNG> it should be turing-complete, that is you should be able to write a brainfuck interpreter using CTCP-S SUB
19:46:35 <\oren\> it says "irssi: not enough parameters given"
19:48:12 <APNG> (it's basically a C preprocessor derivative btw)
19:49:26 <gamemanj> wob_jonas: yes, but these are very obvious sine waves: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/butterfly_detail.png
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19:49:47 <\oren\> I think it's occurring in the line that prints the output
19:50:11 <\oren\> $server->command("msg $target ". botscript($message));
19:50:45 <\oren\> that's charapcter number 8
19:51:21 <\oren\> oh, I see, irssi doesn't let me output nothing
19:51:49 <zzo38> The IRC server won't let you to send a blank message, but you can send a message containing only places.
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19:52:35 <DHeadshot> I can get oren banned by sending "❄ocal 4 3+."!
19:53:14 <\oren\> there, a snowman before the actal output
19:53:53 <\oren\> wob_jonas: the bot's trigger character is a snowflake
19:54:54 <\oren\> you neep p to output the anwser
19:55:47 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it operates on bytes
19:57:55 <\oren\> hmm maybe p shuld just be destructive
19:58:32 <wob_jonas> it should print a newline after the number though
20:00:33 <\oren\> hmm I guess d should be dup. but then i dunno about drop
20:00:49 <wob_jonas> \oren\: add an s command, that's enough for dropping
20:01:13 <APNG> \oren\, r for remove?
20:01:44 <wob_jonas> \oren\: or a ! command (as in underload)
20:01:54 <wob_jonas> \oren\: no, we want dc compatibility :-)
20:02:25 <\oren\> it's not going to be dc compatible if it acts on bytes
20:02:42 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yeah, just similar syntax so it's easy to learn
20:02:58 <\oren\> well for now, y will work
20:03:53 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 3 9p [maybe just use strings as comments]sk
20:04:02 <\oren\> it doesn't have strings
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20:05:49 <\oren\> it has an @ command however
20:06:07 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 3 @ p
20:06:16 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 2 @ p
20:06:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 0 @ p
20:07:20 <\oren\> anyway, the key feature I'm gonna add is the ability to switch the type the calculator acts on
20:07:40 <\oren\> so you could use the D command to switch to doubles
20:08:44 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 105 73+p156 40+p45 187+p227 27+p109 33+p179 16+p241 61+p56 58+p5 89+p5 86+p168 148+p # expect -78 -60 -24 -2 -114 -61 46 114 94 91 -67 -99
20:08:44 <\oren\> ☃ -78 -60 -24 -2 -114 -61 46 114 94 91 60
20:09:49 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 153 37-p156 109-p84 183-p166 147-p219 209-p234 189-p57 214-p157 149-p1 134-p27 220-p116 8-p93 255-p # expect 116 47 -99 19 10 45 99 8 123 63 108 94
20:09:49 <\oren\> ☃ -103 -100 84 -90 -37 -22 57 -99 1 27 116 93
20:11:46 <\oren\> ei(*c=='-'){s[0]=-s[0];}
20:12:42 <zzo38> The sandbox capability in Node.js isn't very good but I would suggest other way you can by making a JavaScript library for accessing a JavaScript implementation. (V8 is accessed from C++, but my suggestion is a way to make V8 accessible through JavaScript code too.)
20:13:58 <wob_jonas> \oren\: what other operations do you have?
20:14:58 <zzo38> What would you think of what I wrote about isolated sandbox for JavaScript in JavaScript?
20:15:40 <\oren\> wob_jonas: not much atm, but I'll be adding various types first
20:15:40 <wob_jonas> zzo38: sandbox implemented in javascript, or a javascript api to the control sandbox?
20:16:45 <zzo38> wob_jonas: A JavaScript API to a JavaScript sandbox
20:17:15 <zzo38> (The API would probably be implemented in C++ because that is what V8 requires)
20:17:37 <zzo38> (And V8 would be used because that is what Node.js uses)
20:17:42 <wob_jonas> zzo38: isn't that already implemented in browsers basically, and essentially invokable some combination of frames and some other stuff?
20:18:13 <wob_jonas> or with plugins that let you control the browser from javascript but the pages also have javascript or something
20:18:15 <zzo38> Something like what is in browsers yes, but for Node.js instead of browsers and programmable through JavaScript on the outside too
20:18:35 <zzo38> (Firefox uses XPCOM but that has several problems)
20:19:16 <wob_jonas> \oren\: will you list the operations this supports somewhere?
20:19:57 <\oren\> hmm, I wonder which operations it should support. Maybe I'll just keep it with bytes but support a lot of byte stuff?
20:20:48 <\oren\> the u command will undrop
20:21:38 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/ocal.c.htm
20:27:04 <int-e> so can we hack into \oren\'s machine now
20:27:46 <\oren\> i mean, it would let you look at anything in the ocal process's memory space
20:28:04 <wob_jonas> \oren\: why are you writing the number input routines in such a verbose way?
20:28:20 <\oren\> to avoid growing the stack
20:29:09 <wob_jonas> \oren\: but why not fewer branches instead of repeated code?
20:29:09 <\oren\> i'm doing that char *s=((char*)(&c))+1000; thing again
20:29:59 <\oren\> wob_jonas: oh, because... uh, I dunno
20:30:26 <wob_jonas> like, instead of ei(*c=='1'){s[1]=1;s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;}...ei(*c=='9'){s[1]=9;s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;} just write something like ei('1'<=*c&&*c<='9'){s[1]=c-'0';s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;}
20:36:13 <\oren\> also for some reason chrome thinks I wrote that program in norwegian
20:37:01 <\oren\> is eg and ei words in norwegian?
20:37:48 <\oren\> oh, I bet eg means like an egg
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20:43:02 <\oren\> @ask oerjan are ei and eg words in norwegian, and which one means en:egg?
20:47:10 <int-e> apparently ei is a female article (*one* female) and eg the first-person singular pronoun (I)
20:48:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: Ei still means an egg in German though, doesn't it?
20:50:21 <int-e> wob_jonas: wait, don't you speak German natively? I somehow thought you did.
20:50:46 <int-e> must be one of my usual mixups.
20:50:58 <\oren\> I thought he's from Hungary?
20:52:48 <\oren\> I have no idea why the english word egg has two g's though
20:53:14 <\oren\> eg and egs would work just as well
20:53:15 <wob_jonas> \oren\: because "eg." is already a word
20:54:10 <int-e> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/egg#English ... seems to have two g's in many languages, actually
20:55:01 <int-e> AFAICS "eg." does not exist. "e.g." and "eg" do.
20:57:29 <int-e> extraordinary gullibility
20:57:40 <myname> i am a german native speaker
20:59:10 <quintopia> i wonder what yahoo is planning that they've suddenly shut out all 3rd party apps from using the messenger network
20:59:26 <quintopia> not that anyone used it anyway, but ... did they have some reason to think people will?
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21:08:19 <gamemanj> "eg and egs"...? when'd we move from linguistics to webcomics? Oh, look at the time...*falls asleep on desk*
21:09:20 <int-e> oh god, I remember EGS
21:10:30 <gamemanj> the "oh god" does not sound like a good thing"
21:10:39 <int-e> why isn't there a european DVD version of The Expanse
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21:17:13 <APNG> it's alive! https://is.gd/HQfus8 barely...
21:17:14 <int-e> gamemanj: it's one of those comics that I feel foolish about now, having grown up a little
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21:41:15 <FireFly> 'eg' for 'I' is nynorsk I believe
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21:54:02 <APNG> I can now add commands to it https://is.gd/PNZ1hc
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22:33:53 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( The distance between a point and the origin in n-space divided by the square root of n is equal to the root-mean-square of the values in the point)
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22:54:15 <moonythedwarf> does anyone know a good math expression evalulator (thats a programming library or a program itself)?
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23:44:42 <lambdabot> \oren\ asked 3h 1m 39s ago: are ei and eg words in norwegian, and which one means en:egg?
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23:45:38 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ yes, yes (in nynorsk), neither (en:egg = no:egg)
23:45:57 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ in fact i vaguely recall english borrowed it from us hth
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23:47:22 <oerjan> Mirror movies are more reflective
23:48:51 <oerjan> oh the last two blocks i made are in the same range
23:50:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:199.15.233.152/29]] with an expiry time of 17:07, 1 September 2017 (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
23:55:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:31.184.238.0/24]] with an expiry time of 03:48, 29 August 2017 (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
23:57:01 <oerjan> i'd remove the redundant ones, but that seems spammy
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