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00:28:19 <oerjan> <FireFly> I probably don't know enough group theory to get this <-- i knew enough group theory but not enough irish geography.
00:28:58 <FireFly> I'd actually heard about the monster group, but that is probably more due to casual wikipedia browsing than maths knowledge
00:29:14 <oerjan> well it _is_ the most famous sporadic group.
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01:42:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49692&oldid=49691 * Qwerp-Derp * (+64)
01:43:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49693&oldid=49692 * Qwerp-Derp * (+39)
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02:35:15 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Apparently, flagged half notes are a thing
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03:17:30 <Sgeo> What's the sound quality like on bone-conduction headphones?
03:21:11 <oerjan> thank you, i'll be here all week, unless i get dragged away.
04:24:56 <HackEgo> Robdgreat: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
04:25:20 <shachaf> Ignore the bit about no hablamos espñol.
04:25:40 <shachaf> I thought the welcomes were supposed to be direct translations?
04:25:56 <Robdgreat> ok, help me out here. which bot am I ignoring?
04:26:13 <oerjan> shachaf: it's because of the venezuelans, who wouldn't get the point that this isn't a spanish channel.
04:26:20 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:26:30 <Robdgreat> I'm going to live to regret unignoring him
04:26:34 <HackEgo> Robdgreat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:26:47 <oerjan> trust shachaf to work hard on the regretting part
04:27:11 <shachaf> `slwd welcome//s#!#! Unfortunately, most of us do not speak Spanish.#
04:27:20 <oerjan> shachaf: does this mean that you do speak spanish
04:27:21 <\oren\> man relcome looks a lot better with my new color scheme
04:27:47 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't mean that it's false, just irrelevant.
04:28:08 <shachaf> oerjan: Come on, I've made so many improvements to HackEgo.
04:28:24 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
04:28:32 <shachaf> Without me you'd still be echo > and seding all the time.
04:28:44 <shachaf> And never culpriting, and so on.
04:29:09 <HackEgo> shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf
04:29:37 <HackEgo> 2016-06-28 <shachaf> slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ 2016-06-25 <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk# \ 2016-06-07 <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s/\\*list, // \ 2016-06-05 <shachaf> sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ \ 2016-06-05 <shachaf> le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *lis
04:29:53 <shachaf> Pretty sure I shavented some more things since then.
04:30:21 <oerjan> hm i guess i invented the w versions, maybe.
04:30:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found
04:30:40 <HackEgo> 2016-06-27 <shachaf> mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\\n" -- "$@"
04:31:16 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles \ bin/hoag \ bin/doag \ bin/macro \ bin/hog \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/before
04:32:01 <shachaf> oerjan: Yes, you shavented all the w versions.
04:33:21 <\oren\> `` rgrep -l wisdom bin
04:33:22 <HackEgo> bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/learn \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/leann \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/dowg \ bin/learn_append \ bin/howg \ bin/slwd \ bin/forget \ bin/? \ bin/pastewisdom \ bin/wisdöm \ bin/cwlprits \ bin/footnote \ bin/wisdom \ bin/ls
04:33:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ wisdom | döts
04:33:39 <HackEgo> hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" \ hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
04:33:44 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/"
04:34:15 <shachaf> Are you going to shavent dog for completeness?
04:34:39 <HackEgo> find .hg/store/data/wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 /bin/ls -t | perl -pe 'use POSIX;chop;$d=strftime("%F",localtime((stat($_))[9]));s=^.hg/store/data/wisdom/(.*).i$=\1 // =;s=^=/$d/ = if$d ne$p;$p=$d;s=_(.)=uc($1)=eg;s=~([0-9a-f][0-9a-f])=chr hex$1=eg'
04:35:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cwlprism: not found
04:35:08 <oerjan> i just find it slightly inelegant that the a and w modifiers clash in position...
04:35:25 <oerjan> also, is a consistently used
04:36:10 <HackEgo> cat: bin/ho{w,a}g: No such file or directory
04:36:15 <HackEgo> hoag "wisdom/$1" \ hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
04:36:20 <shachaf> Let's see. The etymology is:
04:36:41 <shachaf> hoag is a variant of hog (that uses --removed to show everything that might be relevant)
04:36:45 <shachaf> It's named after Jonathan Hoag
04:37:04 <shachaf> howg is a variant of howg that has the same pronunciation, but adds wisdom/
04:37:11 <HackEgo> <shachaf> slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk# \ <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s/\\*list, // \ <shachaf> sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ \ <shachaf> le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1
04:38:12 <shachaf> Look, you can't just rename one of them.
04:38:21 <shachaf> You should document the naming scheme if you
04:39:17 <shachaf> `mkx bin/howg//echo "howg is deprecated! use hwag instead."; exec hwag "$@"
04:42:16 <shachaf> I don't understand this new scheme.
04:42:37 <shachaf> I'd rather revert the whole thing unless there's a consistent rationale or heuristic for figuring out the right script.
04:43:35 <HackEgo> bin/anonlog \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/hog \ bin/howg \ bin/log \ bin/noping \ bin/pastalog \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastlog \ bin/ping \ bin/pong \ bin/preprocess-mtg \ bin/randomanonlog \ bin/rng \ bin/searchlog \ bin/something
04:43:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1| sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(grep "<.*>" $file | shuf -n 1)" | sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ fi
04:44:23 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....0@.....@....... ..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....\......\........ ....................`......`.....`......¬....... .................`.....`.....à.......à................
04:44:28 <HackEgo> bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/hog \ bin/howg
04:44:45 <oerjan> `` grep -v 'remove' bin/{d,h}*g
04:44:46 <HackEgo> bin/dowg:doag "wisdom/$1" \ bin/hog:hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" \ bin/howg:hoag "wisdom/$1"
04:44:50 <shachaf> `` objdump -d bin/something | paste
04:44:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.15531
04:45:06 <HackEgo> <hppavilion[1]> ` mv jnk/something bin/something
04:45:13 <oerjan> it's only hog which doesn't use --removed
04:45:26 <shachaf> Do we want to standardize on always using --removed?
04:45:41 <shachaf> It gives more complete but often irrelevant output.
04:45:43 <\oren\> Robdgreat: the'yre degugging and modifying the bot in realtime
04:46:21 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found
04:46:27 <HackEgo> <hppavilion[1]> ` mv jnk/something bin/something
04:46:36 <HackEgo> <moon__> ` mv bin/Something jnk/something
04:46:43 <HackEgo> <oerjan> ` gcc -x c -o bin/Something wGAUV3ER \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c waDs9gmT -o bin/Something \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c UZ3ESUfL -o bin/Something \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c 6TL7V2mM -o bin/Something \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c yn9LVhJv -o bin/Something
04:46:53 <HackEgo> <Moon_> revert \ <Moon_> fetch http://pastebin.com/raw/wGAUV3ER
04:47:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wGAUV3ER
04:49:40 <\oren\> looks like that pastebin is some sort of crude interpreter
04:49:58 <oerjan> yeah one of moon_'s experiments.
04:50:41 <oerjan> (or did he make a wiki page? i've forgotten.)
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04:54:14 <HackEgo> digin4: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:55:44 <shachaf> Hmm, welcome should be the wisdom version of relcome
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05:00:15 <oerjan> i think digin4 found us too surreal
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05:00:43 <oerjan> either that, or e's having connection trouble.
05:01:31 <shachaf> I should learn about surreal numbers.
05:01:35 <shachaf> Wasn't someone in here an expert?
05:02:56 <HackEgo> surreal number? ¯\(°_o)/¯
05:07:57 <oerjan> `le/rn surreal number/Surrey numbers are very county, as long as they're not Spelthorne.
05:09:01 <oerjan> that wisdom should be sufficiently surreal hth
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05:38:09 <cyra> i am frustrated at higher education mathematdicks
05:38:21 <cyra> maybe i just have a bad teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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06:55:31 <oerjan> either hppavilion[1] is making a late surreal contribution, or he's finally cracked.
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07:26:15 <izabera> https://sites.google.com/a/bostic.com/keithbostic/vi/nvi-faq#A14
07:26:23 <izabera> You can buy version 13.3 source with an unrestricted license for $400 from AT&T Software Solutions by calling +1-800-462-8146. Binary redistribution of cscope is an additional $1500, one-time flat fee.
07:36:44 <myname> compiling seems to be expensive
07:46:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Logicode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49694 * Darkrifts * (+215) Created page with "In the '''IO''' section, it uses the term <pre>func</pre>, but aren't <pre>circ</pre> declarations the way to make functions? ~~~~"
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08:29:16 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan 300 reindeer were killed by lighting in Norway.
08:39:15 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can a (novel-length) book be written without chapter format without looking terrible? )
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16:04:40 <Slereah> I'm trying to rewrite my lazy bird interpreter
16:04:52 <Slereah> So far not working so good
16:05:06 <Slereah> del printx = x => { Console.Write('a'); return x; };
16:05:17 <Slereah> But that only gives me a single a
16:05:29 <Slereah> Not quite sure why, I think it might be the order of evaluation
16:09:15 <Slereah> Yeah I think the evaluation is backward compared to the normal operation
16:09:26 <Slereah> m(printx(i, 'a')(printx(i, 'b'))); prints "ab" rather than "ba"
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16:38:13 <tswett> Slereah: I don't seem to recall C# having a "del" keyword.
16:38:37 <Slereah> del is delegate del del(del a);
16:38:58 <Slereah> Is that kosher to make a pure lambda expression
16:39:40 <tswett> I might name it Del, though.
16:39:45 <Slereah> m(printx('a')); doesn't print two a's, even though printx('a')(printx('a')); does
16:40:06 <tswett> If it's named "del", then someone might mistake it for a keyword.
16:40:24 <Slereah> Psh who cares for someone :p
16:40:32 <Slereah> It's not like someone else will see that code
16:41:50 <tswett> So, when you evaluate m(printx('a')), that's going to first evaluate printx('a') (which will output 'a') and then call m() on the result.
16:42:48 <Slereah> Can I switch the order of evaluation?
16:43:14 <tswett> But wait, why does printx('a') typecheck? Isn't printx a "del", meaning it can only take a "del" as an argument?
16:43:17 <Slereah> It ain't called Lazy Bird for nothing
16:43:26 <tswett> Well, you could do something like...
16:43:29 <Slereah> printx isn't quite as pure
16:43:32 <tswett> m(unusedValue => printx('a'))
16:43:37 <Slereah> It's delegate del delchar(char c);
16:44:12 <tswett> Maybe what you're after is...
16:44:34 <tswett> Something along the lines of...
16:44:58 <tswett> delchar printx = inputChar => x => { Console.Write(inputChar); return x; };
16:45:32 <Slereah> Would that solve my problem though
16:45:49 <Slereah> If the evaluation is done in the wrong order it will change the behaviour of programs
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16:46:43 <Slereah> I could just rewrite a lambda interpreter myself but if I could change to lazy evaluation the existing lambdas it would be swell
16:47:25 <tswett> There's gonna be a nice way to do this in C#...
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16:47:49 <Slereah> Technically this would only affect the non-pure operators
16:48:01 <Slereah> But I'm not sure how to fix this especially for those
16:48:15 <tswett> I feel like just using "del", exactly as you're currently using it, ought to work.
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16:48:42 <tswett> Then again, maybe not.
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16:49:31 <Slereah> Switching to delchar printx = inputChar => x => { Console.Write(inputChar); return x; }; still only produces one a
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16:50:33 <tswett> And what expression are you using now?
16:50:40 <tswett> What are you evaluating that only produces one a?
16:51:22 <Caesura> https://gyazo.com/e0bc79e0dab2a2d8303b71cf935e62fe.png
16:51:31 <tswett> That would produce only one "a" even if lazy evaluation were used.
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16:52:21 <tswett> m(printx('a')) would reduce to printx('a')(printx('a')). The outer printx('a') would get reduced and thus would print "a", leaving you with printx('a'). Then evaluation would finish.
16:52:45 <Slereah> Let's see what happens if I add an i
16:53:03 <Slereah> m(printx('a'))(i); does produce two i's
16:53:38 <Slereah> and u(u((printx('a'))))(i); does produce an infinite loop
16:53:51 <Slereah> I guess I need to do (my program)(i) by default
16:54:58 <Slereah> Now to do a parser for the code
16:55:15 <Slereah> I bet C# has a standard one by default
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16:58:07 <tswett> Parsing this oughta be pretty easy. Consider using recursion.
16:58:46 <Slereah> yeah shouldn't be too hard
16:58:56 <Slereah> There's only one operation to be applied
16:59:37 <tswett> public static LbExpression Parse(TextReader reader) { switch (reader.Read()) { case '`': LbExpression function = Parse(reader); LbExpression argument = Parse(reader); return function.Apply(reader); case ... } }
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17:25:22 <Slereah> Let's try a more complicated expression
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17:26:55 <Slereah> `````````````.h.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!i prints "hhee"
17:26:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ````````````.h.e.l.l.o.,.: not found
17:29:21 <Slereah> Gotta find the correct regular expression for a combinator expression
17:33:05 <Slereah> What's a regular expression if X = a is an expression and X = `XX is an expression
17:34:27 <Slereah> Apparently basic regexps do not handle nesting
17:34:45 <Slereah> Might have to do it by hand
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17:45:35 <Sgeo> http://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/desktop/opera-releases-bork-edition
17:46:40 <Slereah> Now let's try the Fibonacci
17:47:21 <Slereah> "Process is terminated due to stack overflow"
17:47:41 <Slereah> I guess when the program doesn't stop it doesn't print things until the end
17:48:58 <Slereah> `u`u.a prints characters before the stack overflow
17:48:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: u`u.a: not found
17:52:40 <Slereah> Maybe I should just rewrite it like before as a dynamic string
17:52:48 <Slereah> Might avoid the stack overflows
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19:58:29 <gamemanj> Like HTML tags, but more confusing.
19:59:34 <\oren\> my god its full of stars
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20:07:57 <\oren\> ☫ and ☬ are hard to draw
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20:25:11 <myname> space grunts looks like a mobile game for whiever it was who did 't like the turnbased aspect of roguelikes
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21:20:15 <myname> i know way too few people that do graphical stuff
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21:39:54 <zzo38> It is an invalid Unicode character.
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22:37:54 <\oren\> prooftechnique: it is invalid, but still can occur, so there is a glyph for it in my font
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22:39:03 <wob_jonas> My bank card again got physically damaged. This is the third time my bank card has had a shorter lifespan than their normal replacement time.
22:39:27 <wob_jonas> I know it's getting a lot of wear because I'm carrying it in my wallet all the time, but isn't that supposed to be sort of normal use for a bank card?
22:39:49 <\oren\> maybe your wallet is too small or too big
22:40:17 <\oren\> or you have too many cards in your wallet
22:40:38 <moonythedwarf_> Question: anyone know of a IRC bot that can preform the Riemann function?
22:41:00 <wob_jonas> This time it's not around the chip where it torn, but instead there's a tear starting from the short side of the card you hold in your hand when you insert it, on the side of the magnetic strip.
22:41:51 <wob_jonas> \oren\: maybe, or more likely too much cash and tickest and other non-card items, or the wallet is getting pulled tense and curved in my pocket
22:42:36 <wob_jonas> The usual advice is to not put your bank card (or other fragile items like a calculator or mobile phone) in your back pocket, but I never do that! I always have it in my front jeans pocket (or rarely in a bag).
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22:44:04 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: we have some reasonably programmable bots, so presumably you can upload a short program that computes it
22:44:32 <wob_jonas> you can probably find a ready-made implementation of it in some library
22:44:48 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: node: command not found
22:45:08 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: you mean the Riemann zeta function, right?
22:46:11 <wob_jonas> This Riemann zeta: http://dlmf.nist.gov/25.2
22:47:26 <moonythedwarf_> Calculates the Riemann sum for a one-variable function f on the interval [a,b] with n equally-spaced divisons. If sampler is given, that function will be used to calculate which value to sample on each subinterval; otherwise, the left endpoint will be used.
22:48:18 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: that's not the Riemann zeta, that's quadrature (approximating a Riemann integral) in one dimension
22:49:19 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: ok, so what do you actually want?
22:49:38 <\oren\> I don't think I've ever put anything in the back pocket of my jeans. how would I sit?
22:50:35 <zzo38> In the Dungeons&Dragons game I managed to summon a grandfather clock into a prison cell and when it chimed the guards game down and wondered how it got there.
22:50:38 <wob_jonas> \oren\: I put a key there, and sometimes plastic bags. never bigger stuff.
22:51:06 <wob_jonas> zzo38: is it wise to alert your guards that you can do magic?
22:52:29 <wob_jonas> nah, I guess they probably already knew so it doesn't matter
22:52:45 <zzo38> There was a anti-magic field active, but the book that summoned the clock somehow overcomes that anti-magic, and so they were unable to unsummon it.
22:53:32 <wob_jonas> zzo38: is that plain arcane magic, or something different?
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22:53:54 * zgrep pops in to glimpse at the backlog and sees an out of context «is it wise to alert your guards that you can do magic?», zgrep now imagines wob_jonas locked in a castle room, with guards outside guarding him
22:53:56 <zzo38> I don't know how the book works. I just wrote "clock" and there it was.
22:55:07 <moonythedwarf_> summon a pair of magic garden clippers that can cut through steel
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22:55:57 <wob_jonas> no wait, I think you do psionic magic, not arcane, right?
22:56:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: oh! just wrote "clock"? is that like Scribblenauts?
22:56:20 <zzo38> wob_jonas: My character can do both, but I don't know how this book works.
22:56:40 <wob_jonas> have they tested whether it's an illusion?
22:56:56 <zzo38> Not as far as I know
22:57:09 <zzo38> The reason for the clock was to time the expiration of a spell I had set up elsewhere. The spell created a large block and was meant to make noise by the cups sitting on top of it falling down once the spell expires (causing the block to disappear), to wake us up, but we were put in jail instead.
22:57:56 <zzo38> Therefore I trick the guards in going to the hotel just before it would expire, so they would hear the noise, enter the room and try to dispel the magic cups but they can't because it isn't magic. They might think therefore that we have stronger magic than they have because they can't dispel our magic.
22:59:17 <wob_jonas> wait, is the clock set to the right time for that? or do you have some way to find out what time it is, from a prison cell?
22:59:37 <zzo38> wob_jonas: That's what I used the clock for; to determine what time it was.
22:59:58 <wob_jonas> I guess you could just ask the guards
23:00:09 <zzo38> wob_jonas: They refused to answer.
23:00:22 <wob_jonas> zzo38: right, but did the clock arrive set to the right time and wound up?
23:00:57 <zzo38> Yes; it was early enough that I still knew what time it was, and it was wound up, too.
23:02:28 <zzo38> They might detect a dim aura if they tried, but not any stronger aura because there isn't actually any magic in effect in the hotel room (it has already expired), and in any case the cups themselves are not magical.
23:06:11 <wob_jonas> Are the guards familiar with the tale of the head of Vecna?
23:08:20 <zzo38> I don't know if they are or not
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23:12:07 <hppavilion[1]> Pedantic level 1: Replace all occurrences of pi with tau/2 (unless it's 2pi, in which case you just use tau)
23:12:32 <hppavilion[1]> Pedantic level 2: pi and tau are both acceptable, but replace all occurrences of 2 with tau/pi
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23:13:36 <hppavilion[1]> Linguistic Prank Idea: Start interpreting numbers written in standard digital fashion as an abjad
23:13:55 <shachaf> There's nothing pedantic about using 2pi instead of pi
23:14:46 <shachaf> Pedantic is the sort of thing I'm being right now.
23:15:04 <shachaf> But there's nothing incorrect about pi.
23:15:05 <zzo38> Some programs I wrote do use tau but not pi
23:15:13 <hppavilion[1]> (Or even better, an ultra-abjad, in which vowels aren't just inferred; which specific vowel sound is used is unnecessary)
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23:16:13 <hppavilion[1]> I'm a fan of the middle camp, in which Pi and Tau are both acceptable. I would call it a Golden Mean Fallacy, but we're discussing pi(/tau), not any other irrational numbers
23:16:17 <zzo38> Of course it is correct there is nothing incorrect about pi, but tau seems to be work better in many cases; but it isn't (just) because of circles, anyways.
23:16:38 <zzo38> I consider both acceptable, but find tau more useful in more cases than pi.
23:17:56 <shachaf> but that's not pedantry, yo
23:18:09 <hppavilion[1]> I think we should start using tau (together with pi) without any explanation at the beginning (so no tau = 2pi disambiguation), so people just have to start getting used to it
23:18:17 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It is if you systematically refuse to use pi
23:18:31 <shachaf> Still not pedantry. Just a preference.
23:18:49 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: That's level 3, and you have to use it when you would otherwise just drop it to imply a coefficient of 1
23:18:54 <shachaf> If I systematically refuse to eat bell peppers, it's not pedantry to not eat bell peppers.
23:19:20 <hppavilion[1]> ("The parent quadratic function is y = pi/pix^2+0x+0")
23:21:18 <moonythedwarf_> hppavilion[1]: here is a derivative for that: (d)/(dx)(π/(π x^2)+0 x+0) = -2/x^3\
23:21:47 <hppavilion[1]> Numeric Abjad: 0 [z], 1 [w], 2 [t], 3 [θ], 4 [f], 5 [k], 6 [s], 7 [j], 8 [p], 9 [n]
23:22:21 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Pedantry was the wrong word, but I couldn't think of anything better
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23:24:27 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Also, [r] would lead to r-colored vowels, which would make things more confusing
23:24:33 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: dunno, anywhere so you get a saner set of consonants.
23:24:58 <hppavilion[1]> (between the sounds you can put any monopthong you like (or none, if you like); a decimal point is represented by a [b])
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23:25:47 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, 1 should be [g] because [w] can be a difficult sound sometimes
23:26:12 <wob_jonas> it's not insane, but [r] is common and useful
23:26:43 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Yeah, but [r] leads to r-coloring, which makes things harder to understand. I guess 0 could be [r]?
23:27:25 <moonythedwarf_> its just a _esoteric_ set of constants hppavilion[1] (;
23:28:42 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: (1) "an _esoteric_" (2) That winky face is backwards; while (: is acceptable (if strange), (; is never allowed, only ;) (3) Many of them were chosen based on their initial sound in English to make it easier for English speakers (one of the larger groups) to understand
23:30:08 <zzo38> But, English are not abjad.
23:31:09 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yeah, but if I try to make the numbers have vowels, I lead to issues with numbers that don't contain any
23:31:44 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. if the even digits are vowels and the odds are consonants, then you have trouble pronouncing 573597335
23:32:14 <zzo38> Yes, I can understand you
23:32:46 <hppavilion[1]> That was for anyone else reading (also, I'd already started typing and I don't like aborting messages)
23:33:21 * hppavilion[1] is pro-life, but only for relatively short Unicode strings used in text-only chat
23:35:49 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: you could take a language with a somewhat strict syllable structure, and have every two consecutive digits be pronounced as a syllable, or even some more complicated system
23:36:49 <zzo38> I did have an idea like that too; treat even positions as vowels and odd positions as consonants; that isn't quite same but it is a similar thing.
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23:37:20 <wob_jonas> I think there's even such a system, though not for generating any word, but as a system to read out numbers in a terse way
23:38:06 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: I could, I suppose, though odd numbers complicate a bit (even though the solution is quite obvious)
23:38:59 <hppavilion[1]> Every digit has a consonant sound and a vowel; you make these in sequence, in odd-length strings the remaining symbol is put at the end of the last syllable
23:39:07 <wob_jonas> If you didn't want the system workable by humans, then you'd just use arithmetical coding or some sort to generate almost exactly every reasonable pronunciation in a reasonable rate.
23:39:07 <hppavilion[1]> But then you have to memorize twice as many sounds
23:39:34 <zzo38> The abjad system yes is simpler and it does work too.
23:41:04 <wob_jonas> make it an abjad then, with the ten sounds being some permutations of [p m t d n k v z S r] ?
23:42:45 <zzo38> I think hppavilion[1]'s idea to omit [r] does make some sense, due to r-colour-vowels; it would be too difficult including all sound anyways
23:43:46 <wob_jonas> or you could use syllables such that each two digits encode a syllable consisting of a consonant or consonant cluster from a set of 20 and a vowel from a set of 5.
23:44:43 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: zzo38: If I do include [r], it has to be as 0 as that seems to be the only logical place for an r-colored vowel to exist
23:44:55 <shachaf> Better to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system
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23:47:24 <wob_jonas> what if you use an escape digit so you encode 19 consonant clusters with 1, 2, ..., 9, 00, 01, ..., 09 respectively, such that the clusters you'd rather avoid at initial position get the codes staring by a zero?
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23:48:06 <wob_jonas> still, you could use an escape digit somehwo
23:48:19 <hppavilion[1]> (final digits are allowed to drop the subsequent vowel)
23:50:18 <hppavilion[1]> (Maybe I should allow multiple similar sounds for each- so [t] and [d] are the same)
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23:59:31 <zzo38> Sometimes in a Dungeons&Dragons game, the duration of a spell can be much more important than the spell itself.
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