00:04:08 <oerjan> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2 in [round (phi**n) | n <- [0..]]
00:04:10 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,7,11,18,29,47,76,123,199,322,521,843,1364,2207,3571,5778,9349,15127...
00:08:47 <oerjan> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2 in [round (phi**n/2) | n <- [0..]]
00:08:49 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,6,9,15,23,38,61,100,161,261,421,682,1103,1786,2889,4675,7563,1223...
00:11:17 <lambdabot> [1,0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,1094...
00:11:39 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,...
00:12:31 <hppavilion[1]> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2 in [ceil (phi**n) | n <- [0..]]
00:12:33 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: ceil :: Double -> t
00:12:50 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, there are numbers too far off, like 15
00:13:22 <oerjan> i'm sure there is a constant multiplier but i've forgotten what it was.
00:14:09 <oerjan> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fib = fix$(1:).scanl(+)1 in zipWith(/) fib (map(phi**) [1..])
00:14:11 <lambdabot> [0.6180339887498948,0.38196601125010515,0.4721359549995794,0.437694101250946...
00:14:28 <oerjan> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fib = fix$(1:).scanl(+)1 in zipWith(/) fib (map(phi**) [1..]) :: [Float]
00:14:30 <lambdabot> [0.618034,0.381966,0.47213593,0.4376941,0.4508497,0.44582468,0.44774407,0.44...
00:15:08 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: fibonacci is symmetric about 0
00:15:08 <hppavilion[1]> The nth fibonacci when n < 0 is (-1)^(n+1) times the -nth fibonacci
00:15:39 <oerjan> well, anyway, there's an obvious continuation.
00:16:28 <oerjan> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fib = fix$(1:).scanl(+)1 in drop 10 $ zipWith(/) fib (map(phi**) [1..])
00:16:30 <lambdabot> [0.4472248879170925,0.44720928218042744,0.447215243041414,0.4472129661951193...
00:16:49 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: General case of fibonacci: (k, |R^k)onacci
00:18:05 <oerjan> > let phi = (sqrt 5 + 1)/2 in [round (phi**n/sqrt 5) | n <- [0..]]
00:18:07 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,...
00:18:10 <hppavilion[1]> The number at x is the sum of the previous k numbers, starting with a fixed set
00:18:53 <hppavilion[1]> Fibonacci is the (2, (1, 1))onacci sequence, from the latin 'fibo' for "2 and a pair of 1s"
00:21:46 <hppavilion[1]> @let ofib n = 1 if n < 2 else (ofib (n-1)) `oplus` (ofib (n-2))
00:22:03 <oerjan> @let phi=(sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fibArgGuess x = logBase phi (x*sqrt 5); fib n = round (phi**n/sqrt 5); fibArg x | fib g == x = Just g | otherwise = Nothing where g = fibArgGuess x
00:22:19 <oerjan> > map fibArgGuess [1..]
00:22:21 <lambdabot> [1.6722759381845549,3.1126960285971115,3.9552877667738344,4.553116119009668,...
00:22:53 <oerjan> @let phi=(sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fibArgGuess x = round $ logBase phi (x*sqrt 5); fib n = round (phi**n/sqrt 5); fibArg x | fib g == x = Just g | otherwise = Nothing where g = fibArgGuess x
00:23:05 <lambdabot> • Could not deduce (Floating a0) arising from a use of ‘fibArg’
00:23:05 <lambdabot> from the context: (RealFrac a1, Integral a1, Floating a1)
00:23:50 <oerjan> @let phi=(sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fibArgGuess x = round $ logBase phi (fromIntegral x*sqrt 5); fib n = round (phi**n/sqrt 5); fibArg x | fib g == x = Just g | otherwise = Nothing where g = fibArgGuess x
00:23:56 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘a10’ arising from a use of ‘show_M21357250580...
00:23:56 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show a10)’ from being solved.
00:24:12 <hppavilion[1]> @let ofib 0 = 1; ofib 1 = 1; ofib n = (ofib (n-1)) `oplus` (ofib (n-2))
00:24:13 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: oplus :: t -> t -> t
00:24:13 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘mplus’ (imported from Control.Monad.Writer)
00:25:02 <hppavilion[1]> @let ofib 0 = 1; ofib 1 = 1; ofib n = (ofib (n-1)) `oplus` (ofib (n-2)) where oplus a b = 1/((1/a)+(1/b))
00:25:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um i'm going to have to wipe yours out.
00:25:53 <oerjan> because i cannot correct only mine, @undef only removes everything
00:26:36 -!- otterbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:26:44 <hppavilion[1]> @let ofib 0 = 1.0; ofib 1 = 1.0; ofib n = (ofib (n-1)) `oplus` (ofib (n-2)) where oplus a b = 1/((1/a)+(1/b))
00:26:55 <oerjan> @let phi=(sqrt 5 + 1)/2; fibArgGuess x = round $ logBase phi (fromIntegral x*sqrt 5); fib n = round (phi^n/sqrt 5); fibArg x | fib g == x = Just g | otherwise = Nothing where g = fibArgGuess x
00:27:05 <lambdabot> [Just 2,Just 3,Just 4,Nothing,Just 5,Nothing,Nothing,Just 6,Nothing,Nothing,...
00:27:17 <oerjan> it was yours that failed :P
00:27:20 <HackEgo> olist 1055: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
00:27:25 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Do you see why mine is absurdly inefficient?
00:28:54 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I could probably just define it with normal fibo and just use the oplus of the last two items in normal fibo )
00:29:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's the usual exponential blowup from a recursive fibonacci.
00:29:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Is there a way that isn't recursive? I don't remember
00:29:44 <lambdabot> [1.0,1.0,0.5,0.3333333333333333,0.2,0.125,7.692307692307693e-2,4.76190476190...
00:30:23 <oerjan> @let oplus a b = 1/((1/a)+(1/b))
00:30:50 <oerjan> > fix$(1:).scanl oplus 1
00:30:52 <lambdabot> [1.0,1.0,0.5,0.3333333333333333,0.2,0.125,7.692307692307693e-2,4.76190476190...
00:31:25 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Fibonacci sequence with harmonic sum rather than normal sum
00:31:39 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: well, by recursive i mean double recursion without sharing.
00:31:50 <oerjan> quintopia: working now.
00:33:18 <quintopia> is there a nonzero limit for F_{n+1}/F_n in this case?
00:33:39 <oerjan> > map(id&&&fibArg)[1..]
00:33:41 <lambdabot> [(1,Just 2),(2,Just 3),(3,Just 4),(4,Nothing),(5,Just 5),(6,Nothing),(7,Noth...
00:34:11 <oerjan> > drop 7$map(id&&&fibArg)[1..]
00:34:13 <lambdabot> [(8,Just 6),(9,Nothing),(10,Nothing),(11,Nothing),(12,Nothing),(13,Just 7),(...
00:34:54 <oerjan> although it'll presumably have floating point problems for huge arguments
00:34:58 -!- otherbot has joined.
00:35:53 <quintopia> i guess if regular F_{n+1}/F_{n} is phi, then harmonic F_{n+1}/F_{n} is Phi? yeah, it has to be
00:36:09 <hppavilion[1]> I've replaced the builtin python RNG in my numerology program with a superior PCG one
00:36:25 <hppavilion[1]> (Even if PCG isn't as good as it's made out to be, it's probably better than the builtin one)
00:51:49 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> Did you guys see the paper claiming to prove NP = PSPACE? <-- i didn't read the paper itself but i read some reddit comments that pointed out some red flags
00:52:16 <quintopia> NP=PSPACE seems INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY to me
00:52:42 <oerjan> some called that a red flag in itself >:)
00:53:01 <imode> another paper that claims NP=PSPACE?
00:53:18 <oerjan> imode: i assume it's the same as a week ago...
00:53:29 <imode> and the week before.. and before.... and before....
00:54:42 <oerjan> (unless you are claiming that even more unlikely result)
00:55:05 <HackEgo> P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
00:55:10 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
00:55:41 <HackEgo> co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem.
00:55:57 <alercah> `learn PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
00:55:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'pspace': PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
00:59:59 <HackEgo> alercäh shachäf shachäf shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän hppavilion[1̈] oerjän oerjän shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän shachäf shachäf shachäf shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän shachäf oerjän oerjän jeffl3̈5 oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän boil̈y shachäf shachä
01:03:29 <HackEgo> Diarrhea is the most sickening accent, although some others are more grave.
01:05:19 <oerjan> `learn Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable.
01:05:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'umlaut': Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable.
01:06:46 <alercah> I hate wikipedia pages on mathematical problem that talk about the context of the problem, results related to the problem, and everything except for the actual problem
01:07:49 <HackEgo> .scihpylgoreiH sa drah sa ton hguoht ,troppus stnof ekam ot drah yrev si taht egaugnal citimes lartnec a si cibarA
01:09:36 <lambdabot> oerjan said 17m 47s ago: <Taneb> Did you guys see the paper claiming to prove NP = PSPACE? <-- i didn't read the paper itself but i read some reddit comments that pointed out some red flags
01:12:53 <oerjan> hey scott aaronson didn't even bother looking at it :P
01:13:09 <oerjan> (he's seen too many failed attempts)
01:13:43 <Taneb> I hope it turns out to be correct, even if it probably isn't, because I'm an optimist and that seems an exciting result
01:13:54 <oerjan> Taneb: int-e said something about it after you mentioned it
01:14:08 <oerjan> (he thought he'd spotted a specific error)
01:14:25 <Taneb> I see, that was just after I headed out
01:14:49 <alercah> oerjan: what reddit thread?
01:15:06 <Taneb> It's not a subject I have enough background knowledge in to make much headway
01:15:17 <oerjan> the russian for eyebrow is apparently бровь. that's p. cognate.
01:17:00 <oerjan> hmph my latest reddit threads list has disappeared.
01:17:23 <oerjan> i guess it doesn't survive browser restart
01:18:45 -!- otherbot has changed nick to otterbot.
01:18:46 <oerjan> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/56wyrd/arxiv_paper_claiming_np_pspace_any_immediate_red/ was one
01:19:37 <oerjan> i'm not sure if that one had the relevant comments
01:19:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:20:02 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:20:25 <oerjan> oh it had https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/56wyrd/arxiv_paper_claiming_np_pspace_any_immediate_red/d8n8bh5
01:23:34 <Taneb> Someone I know at uni apparently made a (very-not-infinite-tape) turing machine
01:23:34 <Taneb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRsdaEjSHDA
01:28:50 <oerjan> here was another from r/compsci https://w3.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/56w8hy/arxiv_paper_claiming_np_pspace_any_immediate_red/d8ov40q
01:29:14 <oerjan> which goes into more detail about a possible error
01:33:24 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:33:53 <imode> are there any esolangs that use comments as string literals (optionally, that is)?
01:34:45 -!- otterbot has quit (Quit: Quit requested by jeffl35: It's codebox's fault!).
01:34:52 <oerjan> well in underload we use string literals as comments :)
01:35:34 <oerjan> ^ul (not a comment)(like this)!S
01:36:01 <imode> http://pastebin.com/u78anJ0w
01:36:09 -!- otherbot has joined.
01:36:22 <imode> my own, I use everything between two quotes as a comment.
01:36:41 <imode> but as it's a part of the source, some external "syscall" could read from program data.
01:38:08 <oerjan> in befunge you could do it too, but then you can use any piece of the program as comment as long as you don't run it.
01:38:32 <oerjan> and you can also use g to read any part of the program.
01:38:39 <imode> that's kind of why I'm starting to think about remapping " to pull double-duty.
01:38:43 -!- nisstyre has joined.
01:38:48 <imode> maybe a "skip" operator.
01:39:05 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host).
01:39:06 -!- nisstyre has joined.
01:39:13 <imode> 5" would skip ahead 5 symbols.
01:45:23 <imode> problem is if you wanted to inline a comment... you would need to keep track of the comment's length. :P
01:51:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:55:33 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
02:04:54 -!- MoniRa has joined.
02:12:12 -!- MoniRa has quit (Quit: Page closed).
02:13:12 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:20:51 -!- otherbot has changed nick to otterbot.
02:30:33 <\oren\> imode: Hollerith constants?
02:31:16 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
02:44:09 <zzo38> That is what I thought too, but if you said skip, then maybe it is just a comment? I don't know exactly how it is working?
02:44:36 -!- otterbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:44:56 -!- otherbot has joined.
02:47:19 -!- otherbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:47:38 -!- otherbot has joined.
02:51:53 -!- centrinia has joined.
02:54:47 -!- imode has joined.
03:09:38 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:28:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
03:32:59 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Shouldn't Jeb! Bush have campaigned as ¡Jeb! Bush? )
03:37:28 <hppavilion[1]> It seems that many of my edits to Wikipedia look like they're a PC thing, but are actually purely logical; often, it's removing unnecessary conditional statements
03:39:14 <oerjan> that's what you WANT to think hth
03:39:21 <hppavilion[1]> Such as saying 'husband of a female US president' when it would make more sense to say 'husband of a US president', as the couple being heterosexual isn't actually important, and a gay couple would be the same.
03:40:35 <oerjan> now the poor people in 2040 will be all confused when they try to find out whether the first husband of a president was gay or not
03:41:42 <oerjan> then they'll bitch about those insisting on calling them "people" when they clearly don't identify as such.
03:43:07 <\oren\> the people in 2040 will most likely have horrifying political views created as a reaction to those of my generation
03:43:18 <oerjan> the poor (sorry, fortunately disadvantaged) of 2040 hth
03:43:44 <oerjan> \oren\: hm good point. make that 2060.
03:43:48 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Political Correctness- in this case, things like person-first language, trigger warnings, attempting to pretty much ban words that someone could find offensive or with etymological connotations
03:44:39 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is the wife of the Vice President (or similar role) the Second Lady? )
03:44:49 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm trying to lampshade PC language by imagining a future in which the word "people" is seen as offensive to some hth
03:45:49 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( . o O ( . o O ( BWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHNNNN ) ) )
03:47:59 <oerjan> i don't get the bwahn hth
03:48:20 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It's inception. It's a . o O within a . o O within a . o O
03:48:28 <oerjan> is it a misspelled KHAN with different bantu gender?
03:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: http://inception.davepedu.com/noflash.php hth
03:49:37 <oerjan> . o O ( that url has "flash" in it i don't want to click it )
03:50:21 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you're not interpreting me sufficiently meta hth
03:50:54 <oerjan> obviously when i put something in . o O ( ) it's not meant to be literal hth
03:51:22 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Have I been using . o O ( wrong this whole time? )
03:53:25 <oerjan> i didn't mean that literally, duh
03:53:36 <oerjan> it was inside parentheses, after all.
03:54:53 <oerjan> . o O ( the people who add extraneous close parentheses should be careful. what happens if they close the _big_ parenthesis at the beginning of the universe? )
03:55:39 <shachaf> people who keep parentheses open too long should be careful, lest they open the big ) at the end of the universe
03:55:55 <hppavilion[1]> (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
03:57:06 <hppavilion[1]> (big parenthesis close all outstanding parenthesis))
03:57:53 <hppavilion[1]> (Other than the big one at the end of the universe)
03:58:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: idcode: not found
03:58:20 <HackEgo> [U+239F RIGHT PARENTHESIS EXTENSION]
03:58:27 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unidata: not found
03:59:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unicodedata: not found
04:04:33 <HackEgo> U+239F RIGHT PARENTHESIS EXTENSION \ UTF-8: e2 8e 9f UTF-16BE: 239f Decimal: ⎟ \ ⎟ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
04:05:51 <shachaf> please limit your spam to three lines twh
04:10:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
04:15:32 <shachaf> more inclusive characters please twh
04:19:10 <HackEgo> [U+23AC RIGHT CURLY BRACKET MIDDLE PIECE]
04:19:30 <HackEgo> [U+239E RIGHT PARENTHESIS UPPER HOOK]
04:21:30 <tswett> Ooh... I think I get it.
04:21:48 <tswett> The `icode command does the opposite of the `unicode command...
04:21:58 <tswett> Because `unicode is "un-icode".
04:41:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
04:41:48 <hppavilion[1]> [1] "Noon" is when the sun is directly above your head
04:42:17 <hppavilion[1]> [2] "Antinoon" is when it is noon at the antipode of your current location (draw a straight line through the center of the earth, come out the other side)
04:42:18 <zzo38> Unless between the tropics the sun is never directly above
04:42:37 <shachaf> high noon is 260 minutes after regular noon
04:42:56 <zzo38> But, when the sun is at "midheaven", which means at the local meridian, is the solar noon.
04:43:03 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Correction: "Noon" is when the subsolar point is at the same longitude as you
04:44:17 <shachaf> i,i "It was about people whose mental diseases couldn't be treated because the causes of the diseases were all in the fourth dimension, and three-dimensional Earthling doctors couldn't see those causes at all or even imagine them. One thing Trout said that Rosewater liked very much was that there really were vampires and werewolves and goblins and angels and so on, but that they were in the fourth dimens
04:44:23 <shachaf> ion. So was William Blake, Rosewater's ...
04:44:26 <shachaf> ... favorite poet, according to Trout. So were heaven and hell."
04:45:03 <hppavilion[1]> [3] Separate the time between two consecutive antinoons into 24 equal-length units. Noon is at the exact midpoint (generally)
04:45:22 <hppavilion[1]> [4] Movement of the sun across the sky is a continuous function, or very very close.
04:46:18 <hppavilion[1]> [5] Theorem: At all times, it is 17:00 somewhere; in fact, it is 17:00 in uncountably infinitely many somewhere lying along a chord of the surface of the earth.
05:05:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
05:06:50 -!- pikhq has joined.
05:08:09 <zzo38> I found an article which says (among other things) "This is particularly accurate here where were trying to examine a chess game that happened forty years and we only have three of the pieces." Now I can think, what kind of chess puzzle might be made that involve such thing?
05:30:27 -!- otherbot has changed nick to otterbot.
06:05:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Luizperes * New user account
06:13:26 <pikhq> No, I think that's called a void.
06:28:16 <hppavilion[1]> I don't actually have anything other than 1-way mirror to work with
06:29:45 <hppavilion[1]> (What's n for a normal mirror as found in a Nacireman shrine room?)
06:31:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: pi-way mirror).
06:34:44 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan oerjan has quit (Quit: pi-way mirror) <-- itym (pau*0.66...)-way mirror hth
06:45:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49974&oldid=49932 * Luizperes * (+177) /* Introductions */
06:46:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49975 * Luizperes * (+784) Created page with "An esoteric programming language based on Brainfuck. == About == '''Brain''' wants to improve the performance of the Brainfuck programming language and extend it as well, as..."
06:53:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
07:06:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
07:07:27 <HackEgo> Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
07:08:21 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
07:08:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
07:10:10 <hppavilion[1]> `slwd scow//s#$# Scheme is usually preferred, but Racket will be accepted in a pinch.#
07:10:12 <HackEgo> wisdom/scow//Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. Scheme is usually preferred, but Racket will be accepted in a pinch.
07:10:20 -!- pikhq has joined.
07:11:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49976&oldid=49975 * Luizperes * (+2382)
07:17:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49977&oldid=47222 * Hppavilion1 * (+688) Stage III: Bargaining
07:17:46 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:20:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49978&oldid=49977 * Hppavilion1 * (+144) Linkfix, even more bargainal offers
07:20:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49979&oldid=49976 * Luizperes * (+1211)
07:20:51 -!- Sgeo has joined.
07:24:04 * Sgeo runs away from PhantomHoover
07:24:35 <Sgeo> It's more of an encoding than a derivative, although I think the same could be said for a lot of derivatives, but I'm explicit about it
07:25:48 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: PhantomHoover is no longer in charge of hating on that
07:26:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:26:54 <Sgeo> Wait, which derivative, I made two
07:27:39 <Sgeo> I was thinking BF-RLE
07:27:48 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: BF-RLE is acceptable, but would probably be better served as part of the main BF page or as a subpage
07:28:49 <Sgeo> The core idea of Braintrust was unrelated to Brainfuck, I just needed a vessel to implement it and Brainfuck seemed as good as any
07:29:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49980&oldid=49979 * Luizperes * (+1104)
07:31:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49981&oldid=49980 * Luizperes * (+538)
07:32:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49982&oldid=49981 * Luizperes * (+185)
07:36:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49983&oldid=46788 * Hppavilion1 * (-7017) Blank
07:37:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49984&oldid=49983 * Hppavilion1 * (-14)
07:38:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49985&oldid=49984 * Hppavilion1 * (+73) linky
07:38:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49986&oldid=49985 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) linkyfix
07:39:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49987&oldid=49986 * Hppavilion1 * (-8) repeated redundancy fixed and repaired
07:40:17 <hppavilion[1]> (then again, spammers would just mark their edits as minor and we wouldn't ever see...)
07:40:51 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: I have, hopefully, subsided the problem for some time with an edit to the bf article on the wiki
07:54:26 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host).
07:54:26 -!- sparr has joined.
07:57:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49988&oldid=49982 * Luizperes * (+577)
07:58:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49989&oldid=49927 * Luizperes * (+12)
08:00:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49990&oldid=49988 * Luizperes * (+0)
08:06:21 -!- augur has joined.
08:24:26 -!- MoALTz has joined.
08:33:58 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
08:56:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:07:08 -!- carado has joined.
09:26:59 -!- MDead has joined.
09:28:21 -!- `^_^v has joined.
09:28:23 -!- Cale has joined.
09:31:43 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined.
09:33:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:29 -!- MDude has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:30 -!- \oren\ has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:31 -!- digitalcold has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:31 -!- atehwa_ has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:31 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split).
09:33:32 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest.
09:33:36 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude.
09:41:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49991&oldid=49978 * Rdebath * (-137) Removed "Symbolic Brainfuck", trivial substitution, "goto" wimpmode and "memory" wimpmode are already covered.
09:43:46 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
09:44:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving).
09:51:07 -!- zzo38 has joined.
09:51:07 -!- \oren\ has joined.
09:51:07 -!- digitalcold has joined.
09:51:07 -!- atehwa_ has joined.
09:51:07 -!- newsham has joined.
09:51:53 <b_jonas> \oren\: I don't care about unifont, sorry
10:32:16 -!- atehwa has joined.
10:33:18 -!- digitalc1ld has joined.
10:37:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split).
10:37:38 -!- \oren\ has quit (*.net *.split).
10:37:39 -!- digitalcold has quit (*.net *.split).
10:37:39 -!- atehwa_ has quit (*.net *.split).
10:37:39 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split).
10:45:36 -!- \oren\ has joined.
10:57:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:57:51 -!- augur has joined.
10:58:09 -!- newsham has joined.
11:05:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49992&oldid=49805 * Rdebath * (+194) A little more description
11:05:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49993&oldid=49991 * Rdebath * (+349) Added division for fastest known "interpreters" (JIT), removed two "Hardware" ones that use commodity CPUs. Is COBOL notable??
11:18:18 <int-e> `le/rn denial/Sorry, but we don't know anything about denial. Taneb most definitely did not invent it.
11:24:57 -!- Reece` has joined.
11:44:22 <Taneb> Last night I won a game of Settlers of Catan by building a city out of sheep
12:03:51 <Taneb> (I was getting 5 sheep whenever someone rolled a 5, which was often, and had a port so I could sell 2 sheep for 1 whatever)
12:07:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:17:55 <shachaf> better put that on the sheeping wall
12:18:00 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
12:18:48 -!- heroux has joined.
12:28:24 <b_jonas> Taneb: original, or with extension sets? How heavily house ruled?
12:28:54 <quintopia> Taneb: i did that once. always quite fun.
12:28:58 <Taneb> Actually, it was someone else's set, I don't know what'd in the original
12:29:08 <Taneb> I had a "Longest road" card for two victory points
12:30:05 <Taneb> I also at point did a trade out of turn, but it was quite small and didn't change much in the long term
12:31:38 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:32:11 -!- heroux has joined.
12:34:49 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:36:41 <lambdabot> LOWI 151120Z 26009KT 9999 FEW060 BKN120 17/09 Q1014 NOSIG
12:37:42 <lambdabot> EGBB 151120Z 18007KT 150V210 9999 SCT022 13/09 Q1005
12:44:01 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
12:44:03 <lambdabot> CYUL 151100Z 13004KT 15SM FEW120 BKN250 05/03 A3038 RMK AC1CI6 AC TR SLP291 \ ENVA 151120Z 09009KT CAVOK 08/M05 Q1027 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 12008KT \ ESSB 151120Z 08008KT 050V130 9999 BKN015 06/03
12:44:04 <lambdabot> Q1032 \ KOAK 151053Z 11003KT 9SM FEW016 OVC022 16/14 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP136 T01560144 PNO $
12:44:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
12:46:56 -!- heroux has joined.
12:52:18 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:52:51 -!- heroux has joined.
13:23:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
13:25:44 -!- LKoen has joined.
13:35:33 <izalove> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/uapi/linux/reboot.h
13:37:26 <izalove> `` printf '%8x\n' 672274793 85072278 369367448 537993216 | sed -r 's|(..)(..)|\1/\2/|'
13:37:27 <HackEgo> 28/12/1969 \ 5/12/1996 \ 16/04/1998 \ 20/11/2000
13:37:46 <izalove> these are the birth dates of linus torvalds' wife and daughters
13:37:56 <izalove> that's the cutest easter egg i've ever seen
13:40:41 <ais523> izalove: I knew they were significant dates, but not what they represented
13:41:24 <ais523> a fun problem I ran into with my CALESYTA entry today was related to soft hyphens
13:41:33 <ais523> I wanted to output binary data unambiguously
13:42:12 <ais523> for control codes in the 0-32 and 127 range, there are characters like ␀ you can use
13:42:49 <ais523> for 128-160, I used combining characters like ␍⃑
13:43:03 <ais523> and this makes 255 out of the 256 possible octets visible
13:43:37 <ais523> (because you can use latin-1 for the values above 160)
13:43:38 <ais523> but soft hyphen doesn't have a control picture, and isn't naturally visible
13:45:28 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
13:46:51 -!- heroux has joined.
14:12:06 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:12:50 -!- heroux has joined.
14:26:20 -!- zzo38 has joined.
14:33:41 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:34:16 -!- heroux has joined.
14:40:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:42:12 -!- pikhq has joined.
14:45:34 <b_jonas> ais523: can't you use ibm437 for that? it has practically only distinguishable characters, since they had few space and wanted to get as many different visible glyphs from it as possible. only {0x20, 0x00, 0xff} look the same, but you can replace those.
14:46:36 <b_jonas> also possibly {0xf9, 0xfa} which are a middle dot and a small middle dot
14:47:47 <b_jonas> my bitmap font actually has some mostly unambiguous pictures at the position of the ascii control and high control characters, only I almost see them because there's no way to display them in the terminal
14:49:24 <b_jonas> the soft hyphen isn't a control character though, so it does show up in the terminal with my font properly
14:49:54 <zzo38> They are different dots
14:57:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:02:33 <ais523> b_jonas: it's possible but probably less intuitive
15:03:01 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, it depends on what the data represents
15:03:49 -!- heroux has joined.
15:06:12 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:08:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
15:08:56 -!- heroux has joined.
15:14:20 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:14:30 -!- heroux has joined.
15:51:13 -!- nycs has joined.
15:51:38 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
15:58:17 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:02:10 -!- Reece` has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar).
16:03:16 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 9h 28m 31s ago: oerjan has quit (Quit: pi-way mirror) <-- itym (pau*0.66...)-way mirror hth
16:03:26 -!- Reece` has joined.
16:03:47 <ais523> oerjan: you have a symbol for 1½ times pi?
16:03:50 <ais523> is that a cross between pi and tau?
16:04:04 <oerjan> hppavilion[1] has all sorts of weird things.
16:04:10 <ais523> that's like starting arrays at 0.5
16:05:31 <b_jonas> ais523: isn't that an xkcd thing?
16:05:38 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure he's done that too. or at least someone did.
16:05:45 <ais523> b_jonas: not originally, although xkcd may have referenced it
16:05:59 <ais523> VHDL probably lets you start arrays at any value you like
16:06:11 <HackEgo> Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. Scheme is usually preferred, but Racket will be accepted in a pinch.
16:06:22 <ais523> and there are hints in the syntax that you can index them with things other than integers
16:06:30 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `['
16:06:31 <b_jonas> ais523: fortran, pascal and haskell lets you start arrays at any value too.
16:06:38 <oerjan> `slwd scow//s/[.].*/./
16:06:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/scow//Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
16:06:58 <ais523> VHDL also lets you have arrays that are numbered backwards
16:07:08 <oerjan> hppavilion[1] sometimes doesn't understand when something ruins a joke...
16:07:11 <ais523> this means that you can ask an array for its upper and lower bounds, also for its left and right bounds
16:07:36 <ais523> (an array numbered, say, 7 downto 0 will have a lower bound of 0 but a left bound of 7)
16:07:49 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] your addition to `? scow ruins the joke, so i removed it.
16:07:59 <ais523> Perl had a variable that let you globally change the lower bound of all arrays
16:08:03 <ais523> then they changed it to a compiler directive
16:08:06 <ais523> then they deprecated it
16:09:11 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, it's funny how that's happened in three completely different ways in APL and BASIC and Perl
16:09:54 <b_jonas> APL originally used to be indexed from 1, probably to pull mathematicians in more easily, but later added a global setting like in perl to change indexing to start with 0 instead, which is the sane choice
16:10:43 <b_jonas> BASIC tried to please both crowds, so DIM R(8) would create an array of 9 elements indexed from 0 to 8 inclusive, but later gained a global option to start indexing at 1
16:11:11 <b_jonas> Perl started with indexing at 0 but had the option for reasons unknown to me
16:11:14 <ais523> what about Lua and PHP, which treat arrays as special cases of hash tables?
16:11:37 <ais523> and therefore let you use completely arbitrary indexes, but typically a few special cases for arrays that are numbered in order?
16:11:46 <ais523> actually I think a PHP array is an ordered hash table (?)
16:11:51 <zzo38> You can just write something like DIM R(-3 to 15) or whatever, though
16:11:51 <b_jonas> ais523: Lua actually has the builtin operator # treat arrays as 1-based (plus library functions), plus also the implementation is optimized for 1-based arrays,
16:12:08 <zzo38> ais523: Yes it is, for some reason
16:12:09 <b_jonas> oh, and the varargs system also treatas arrays as 1-based
16:12:18 <ais523> b_jonas: that's the special case I was thinking of
16:12:26 <b_jonas> so in Lua, sadly, you're stuck with 1-based arrays very much, and it's hard to change that without some compatibillity break
16:12:53 <b_jonas> though at least lua isn't that much of an array-based language than perl or apl, so it matters a bit less
16:12:59 <b_jonas> GAP is the one that REALLY bothers me
16:13:25 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
16:13:26 <b_jonas> and that is a huge mental barrier to me whenever I try to do anything in GAP
16:13:42 <b_jonas> like, in theory it shouldn't be that bad, you just have to subtract 1 or add 1 a few places
16:13:49 <b_jonas> but it somehow drives me crazy
16:13:54 <ais523> b_jonas: I've seen a widely used language in a particular field
16:14:03 <\oren\> clearly you've never done much in Visual Basic either
16:14:15 <b_jonas> \oren\: I did just mention BASIC above
16:14:34 <zzo38> In BASIC, strings are 1-based, but arrays can be whatever based you want.
16:14:45 <ais523> in which the normal, intended way to do x[y] = z translates as eval("x" + y) = z
16:14:59 <ais523> I assume this is somehow optimized behind the scenes but it's still insane
16:15:14 <ais523> (incidentally, this trick is sometimes useful in Perl golfing)
16:15:23 <ais523> (you basically use the entire space of variable names as a hash table)
16:16:38 <\oren\> visual basic is interesting to me because it has all the same extensive libraries as C# but retains a lot of BASIC wackyness
16:17:10 <zzo38> TI-92 also uses 1-based arrays. (Also on TI-92, I have tried and if you use a fractional array index it just fails to simplify and is not an error, but specifying zero as the index is an error.)
16:17:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, true, I forgot about strings
16:18:36 <b_jonas> I'm very unfamiliar with TI-92
16:19:42 <\oren\> visual basic is like C# from an alternate timeline where americans won the cold war
16:21:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: have you ever programmed wordbasic or corelscript? those are strange dialects of basic, much closer to traditional basics than visualbasic
16:22:01 <zzo38> JavaScript uses 0-based arrays and strings, but you can make up your own object for 1-based if you want to (but then is not compatible with other functions)
16:22:08 <zzo38> b_jonas: I think I may have done once
16:22:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: well sure, you can make up your own functions for anything-based arrays in lots of languages
16:22:49 -!- nycs has joined.
16:22:53 <zzo38> Yes, and you can also fake 1-based in C, but you can't do it properly.
16:25:23 <zzo38> For example you can make up a macro to make pointer arithmetic to do that, but on some computers, performing pointer arithmetic that causes the result to be out of bounds is an error.
16:26:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, in C you'd need a new macro to index the array, which subtracts 1
16:26:37 <b_jonas> how does Mathematica work again? does it use 1-based arrays? it's been a while since I used it so I don't recall
16:27:02 <zzo38> I have never used Mathematica but I have seen several example codes, but I forget, anyways
16:28:19 <b_jonas> yes, Mathematica is 1-based, worse than that in fact, because indexing by 0 gives the head of the item (think of the head like the symbol in prolog, sort of, but way more magical than that), so if you accidentally index by 0 you could get ugly heisenbugs that are hard to discover
16:29:56 -!- moony has joined.
16:32:29 -!- nycs has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:38:03 -!- `^_^v has joined.
16:55:59 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
16:56:20 -!- boily has joined.
17:04:08 <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in a relatively portable style?
17:04:56 <ais523> huh, I never thought of bots thinking of Internet use in miles, but it makes sense from their viewpoints
17:05:12 <ais523> this is pretty much the setting of the Megaman Battle Network series, come to think of it
17:05:13 <b_jonas> I think it's sort of figurative
17:05:39 <ais523> (Internet usage becomes so complex that people need to use bots to help them navigate it, and the bots see the Internet as if it were a real world, needing to walk from place to place, etc.)
17:05:47 <b_jonas> like walking through the valley of the shadow of death
17:06:46 <b_jonas> ais523: what? for a very long time now the internet has been so complicated that people need routers to figure out where to send each packet. and I'm convinced the routers (at least some of them) work by magic.
17:07:03 <b_jonas> (as in, the other routers just ask the magic routers for help)
17:07:26 <oerjan> `addquote <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to
17:07:26 <oerjan> http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in
17:07:26 <oerjan> a relatively portable style?
17:07:26 <fungot> oerjan: of having a cognitive disconnect there weren't any chinese speakers there), and expander and ( module b...) in my code directory on the web
17:07:28 <HackEgo> 1293) <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to
17:07:35 <ais523> b_jonas: but you don't have bots going around fighting wars and placing barriers across cables and getting frozen in cyber-ice
17:07:39 <HackEgo> *poof* <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to
17:07:55 <ais523> oerjan: how did that end up text-wrapped anyway?
17:08:04 <b_jonas> ais523: hmm.... I think a little of that does happen, but yes, we don't get much of it
17:08:05 <ais523> `addquote <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in a relatively portable style?
17:08:06 <fungot> ais523: better than the drscheme editor that ' delete' on mac keyboards, is usually defined in terms of c++, ada, java... macros don't happen until after the bindings are there?
17:08:07 <HackEgo> 1293) <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in a relatively portable style?
17:08:47 <oerjan> ais523: because i'm copying from putty, and irssi is _supposed_ to detect its own wrapping, but somehow keeps failing.
17:09:13 <oerjan> i've increased the timing threshold several times...
17:09:19 <oerjan> test: fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to
17:09:19 <oerjan> http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in
17:09:19 <oerjan> a relatively portable style?
17:09:20 <fungot> oerjan: eww... mgt is ugly, though,
17:10:13 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 23h 13m 54s ago: <boily> wait. don't tell me nobody fungotted overnight and I'm still the last one who spoke to him? <-- . o O ( hah no one else _ever_ will ... oh crap )
17:10:36 <oerjan> paste_detect_time = 200msecs
17:10:40 * boily pats fungot on the... head? does fungot even have a head?
17:10:40 <fungot> boily: i can't judge about that. they're introducing the topic of your fnord
17:10:50 <ais523> fungot doesn't know whether it has a head
17:10:51 <fungot> ais523: i'm not even sure myself how it works :( it says i've fnord wrong argument order. for example a microsoft keyboard... so my shifts are different.
17:10:51 -!- phoenixflounderi has joined.
17:10:55 <oerjan> how can that possibly not be enough? it must ignore it for some other reason.
17:10:58 <ais523> that makes sense, given how bot anatomy works
17:10:59 <boily> `relcome phoenixflounderi
17:11:00 <HackEgo> phoenixflounderi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
17:12:41 -!- phoenixflounderi has left.
17:12:52 <ais523> looks like our welcome message actually worked!
17:12:57 <ais523> how often does that happen
17:13:57 <Taneb> ais523, I think every couple of weeks someone gets `welcome'd then leaves
17:14:06 <Taneb> I like to think it's because it's working
17:14:11 <ais523> yes, but not always do they say it's because it's the wrong #esoteric
17:16:12 <oerjan> test after increasing again: fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to
17:16:12 <oerjan> http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in
17:16:12 <oerjan> a relatively portable style?
17:16:40 <oerjan> ok if 500 msecs don't work, then it cannot be the time.
17:17:10 <ais523> I was thinking "if it's not the time, maybe it's the date?" but it isn't Wednesday
17:23:09 <oerjan> fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to
17:23:09 <oerjan> http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in
17:23:09 <oerjan> a relatively portable style?
17:23:09 <fungot> oerjan: so that would be nice if there was a small chance i get a
17:23:29 <oerjan> (that was a last test to see if it was because i'd written a prefix first)
17:23:51 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure it worked after i increased it on a previous occasion.
17:24:07 <oerjan> ais523> yes, but not always do they say it's because it's the wrong
17:24:27 * oerjan gives up for now, i guess it's back to mungling those things in vim.
17:26:07 <oerjan> oh irssi has finally been upgraded.
17:28:02 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords
17:28:08 <ybden> `cat bin/rainwords
17:28:09 <HackEgo> #!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w)
17:28:18 <oerjan> (so i'm not longer being insecure, i guess)
17:28:55 <zzo38> IRC client I use not have the problem with wrapping because output wrapping is done only by the terminal. (It also makes input wrapping done by the terminal, but still needs to know the width of the screen in case of backspace or if other output occurs while the user is typing)
17:31:29 <FireFly> oerjan: I don't know irssi, but weechat has /window bare for those purposes. maybe irssi has something similar?
17:31:35 <FireFly> for copy-pasting quotes I mean
17:34:17 <oerjan> irssi has /set paste_join_multiline ON, it just happens to be buggy. i found an old still open bug report...
17:36:57 <oerjan> hm it _is_ capable of reflowing when resizing the window...
17:37:24 <oerjan> otoh how would putty be able to know if there's a true line break?
17:37:46 <ais523> oerjan: maybe it just counts any line with a bunch of spaces at the start as a continuation?
17:37:59 <ais523> that's the obvious impl of dewrapping
17:38:02 <oerjan> ais523: that's the idea. it just doesn't work.
17:38:42 * ais523 thinks "the idea is that it just doesn't work" would be a good esolang concept
17:38:54 <ais523> btw, how are everyone's CALESYTA entries getting on?
17:39:09 <ais523> I have most of a spec worked out in my head (also an older version written down but I'm going to redo some things)
17:39:28 <Taneb> Ooh! I forgot about that!
17:39:37 <ais523> also I now have a working syntax highlighter
17:39:44 <ais523> which means that the parser probably works too
17:39:54 <ais523> finally, I have an idea (only in my head so far) of how to write useful programs
17:40:11 <ais523> it's surprisingly difficult, you have to exploit corner cases in the spec in a nonobvious way to prevent the language being subTC in an unusual way
17:41:45 <b_jonas> oh, an esolang design contest? interesting
17:43:24 <ais523> they want spec + impl (maybe also IDE) + example programs + not a BF variant
17:43:41 <ais523> also a computational class analysis
17:45:00 <ais523> oh gah I just realised how hard it will be to write a quine in this langugae
17:45:19 <ais523> it may end up as the language with the hardest quine-to-other-common-example-program ratio
17:45:40 <b_jonas> then it's definitely not just a brainfuck-alike
17:45:52 <b_jonas> in brainfuck-alikes it's usually easy to write a quine, or impossible
17:46:07 <ais523> I'm pretty sure it's possible, but the language has features that specifically make quining harder than normal
17:46:10 <b_jonas> (impossible if they have too limited io or very limited computational capability)
17:46:28 <b_jonas> um, what counts as normal?
17:46:41 <b_jonas> you don't mean perl-like normal, but dumb esolang-like normal, right?
17:46:44 <ais523> I gave lessons on quine construction somewhere a while back, maybe Reddit
17:47:07 <b_jonas> as in, I don't expect there to be fancy string literals with various forms of quoting and escape sequences and built-in string and regex operations
17:47:16 <ais523> by normal I mean that the difficulty of writing a quine in your language is basically equal to the difficulty of taking a universal quine, and translating it into your language
17:47:35 <ais523> and by universal quine I mean pseudocode quine, or basically the standard quine template that doesn't rely on any language-specific tricks
17:48:21 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
17:49:33 <ais523> anyway, the universal quine template doesn't take kindly to languages in which any part of the program can alter the parsing of the entire rest of the program, both backwards and forwards
17:50:14 <ais523> I ended up looking at mathematical papers in order to find algorithms for use in the parser
17:50:32 <ais523> to get it up to acceptable speed on large inputs
17:51:22 <b_jonas> Now I'm looking at the three sqlite quines I wrote
17:51:47 <zzo38> You wrote three? Which ones are they?
17:52:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: they're on the mailing list near 2014-03-08
17:52:14 <ais523> `` echo select 1 | sqlite3
17:52:16 <HackEgo> Error: incomplete SQL: select 1
17:52:26 <ais523> wait, I have to select it from something?
17:52:34 <ais523> or maybe add a semicolon or the like?
17:52:39 <ais523> `` echo 'select 1;' | sqlite3
17:52:45 <ais523> ah, semicolon is all it needed
17:53:06 <b_jonas> sqlite quine => http://dpaste.com/0S0XKSE
17:53:17 <ais523> now I'm interested in how you break linearity
17:53:21 <ais523> that's the only hard part I see here
17:53:30 <ais523> (err, affinity, not linearity; clearly deleting information is easy)
17:53:34 <b_jonas> um, what do you mean by linearity in this case?
17:53:36 <ais523> oh, you created a table
17:53:42 <ais523> b_jonas: the ability to use a value more than once
17:54:03 <b_jonas> in the third one I use subselect to assign something to variables, and used the variable more than once in the outer select
17:54:36 <ais523> I think you need to break linearity to use a universal quine construction, thus quining isn't /necessarily/ possible in a linear language
17:54:38 <b_jonas> in the second one I use the string function replace that can find and replace more than one instance of a substring
17:54:52 <ais523> (but then, linear languages tend to be sub-TC unless they have a monad or the like that lets you break linearity in a controlled fashion)
17:55:23 <b_jonas> the first one is a vanilla universal quine of the kind I like, using a list of values instead of variables, only it gets somewhat hairy because it isn't easy to create and subscript a list in sqlite3,
17:55:34 <b_jonas> and also it's hard to concatenate a list of strings
17:56:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ENGINEERED CHICKEN).
17:56:49 <ais523> `` echo "SELECT replace(s,char(33),'''')||s||'''s);'FROM(SELECT'SELECT replace(s,char(33),!!!!)||s||!!!s);!FROM(SELECT!'s);" | sqlite3
17:56:49 <HackEgo> Error: near line 1: no such function: char
17:56:56 <zzo38> Now the GURPS points calculation program I made in JavaScript is supports colours!
17:57:02 <ais523> may be an escaping problem
17:57:05 <ais523> SQL is a pain to sel-escape
17:57:16 <zzo38> You need a newer version of SQLite
17:57:21 <ais523> although I don't think it is in this case
17:57:26 <HackEgo> 3.7.13 2012-06-11 02:05:22 f5b5a13f7394dc143aa136f1d4faba6839eaa6dc
17:58:23 <ais523> interesting question: assuming you don't care about bracket matching issues, do all languages with an Underload interpreter also have a quine?
18:00:11 <oerjan> <ais523> I think you need to break linearity to use a universal quine <-- this reminds me of http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2903#comment-1425822
18:00:14 <oerjan> construction, thus quining isn't /necessarily/ possible in a
18:00:21 <oerjan> of course it broke again.
18:00:29 <oerjan> this is going to be awful.
18:00:30 <ais523> wait, how does that even break?
18:00:38 <b_jonas> ais523: I think so, at least if the source of the underload program can be stored in some sane encoding in the program (not necessarily as a literal without escaping, but any sane format)
18:00:39 <ais523> the bit that broke wasn't even copy-pasted
18:00:58 <ais523> b_jonas: oh, good point, you could have a language where the /only/ program is an Underload interp
18:01:21 <ais523> oerjan: huh, I know the author of that comment
18:01:22 <oerjan> ais523: i only paste once i've written the rest, since that generally posts the line too
18:01:31 <b_jonas> but this is more or less true to any sane inner language, not only to underload
18:01:35 <ais523> he used to work a couple of offices away from mine
18:03:16 <b_jonas> from that esolang design contest, "Can you design a language inspired by the water cycle and the movement of clouds?" -- is that trying to be a reference to some existing esolang (esolang in the broad sense, as always)?
18:03:29 <int-e> what, precisely, would constitute a quine (for example, the coding systems for the program itself and for its output might be different; it may also be impossible to construct arbitrary UL programs in the target language (the extreme example is a "language" that only allows the empty program, which is an interpreter that reads an UL program and then executes it...))
18:04:03 <ais523> b_jonas: probably not; it's reminiscent of Homespring but different
18:04:27 <ais523> (I remember someone randomly posting some Homespring on Reddit once; that was a weird experience)
18:04:55 <ais523> int-e: I guess I'm assuming some sort of basic "no cheating" rules
18:05:21 <ais523> in which you can modify the Underload interpreter to take fixed input (but that ends up as part of the program), and there aren't encoding issues (including with Underload's hate of mismatched parens)
18:05:42 <b_jonas> "all commands are based on a metaphor of salmon travelling upriver"
18:06:02 <ais523> wait, have you not seen Homespring before?
18:06:18 <ais523> you really should, it's probably the best thematic esolang there is
18:06:24 <ais523> even if it does have a few issues
18:06:42 <ais523> chef is mostly just a syntax encoding
18:07:13 <ais523> homespring is interesting because it /isn't/ just a syntax encoding
18:08:16 <b_jonas> for something that's not thematic and also not just a syntax encoding, I think ICFP 2006 has one or two such mini-languages featured
18:08:26 <oerjan> ais523> interesting question: assuming you don't care about bracket matching issues, do all languages with an Underload interpreter also have a quine? <-- not necessarily if you cannot give that interpreter constructed input...
18:08:59 <ais523> oerjan: I noticed that loophole and closed it in a later comment
18:09:10 <ais523> <ais523> in which you can modify the Underload interpreter to take fixed input (but that ends up as part of the program), and there aren't encoding issues (including with Underload's hate of mismatched parens)
18:09:27 <b_jonas> it's enough if you can give underload a fixed input
18:09:41 <b_jonas> so you just treat the language as underload with different syntax
18:10:41 <b_jonas> I'll have to look at homespring then
18:10:45 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined.
18:11:33 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18:12:11 <izalove> i invented a super simple way to do zsh's numeric glob in bash
18:12:51 <b_jonas> is this CALESYTA a yearly repeating contest?
18:13:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:13:28 <b_jonas> izalove: zsh -c 'rest of the command'?
18:13:55 <ais523> b_jonas: this is the first time it's happened
18:14:00 <izalove> i invented a way to turn a string into a glob
18:14:05 <ais523> the website implies that it may happen again later but isn't certain on the issue
18:14:17 <ais523> right now they aren't even sure whether there's going to be a prize or not
18:14:23 <ais523> so I guess it depends on how successful the contest is
18:14:33 <izalove> which means you can use this command safely and it won't run it if file doesn't exist cmd @(file)
18:14:38 <b_jonas> who cares if there's a prize?
18:14:49 <izalove> and this thing can be adapted to numeric globs
18:14:52 <b_jonas> it's esolang creation, the reward is in doing the thing
18:14:55 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't really mind
18:14:59 <ais523> I'd have create the esolang anyway
18:15:03 <izalove> shopt -s nullglob; echo @(file{12..345})
18:15:06 <b_jonas> if I wanted a prize, I'd deal with non-eso langs
18:15:07 <ais523> but the contest inspires me to make it better
18:15:16 <izalove> guys stop what you're doing
18:15:21 <b_jonas> ais523: exactly, the contest and the publicity that comes with it
18:15:38 <b_jonas> izalove: what? that can't even work
18:16:31 <b_jonas> izalove: the bracket thing expands to separate arguments, so it blows up ... ah! then the @() makes the argument disappear if there's no such file?
18:17:09 <izalove> that's about the most clever piece of bash code i've ever written
18:17:12 <b_jonas> of course, it won't work if you do it with like @(P{1000000..9999999}.JPG) but still useful
18:17:34 <b_jonas> I'll use that for copying a range of original pictures where there are gaps for pictures I deleted on the camera
18:17:38 <b_jonas> I always wanted something like this
18:18:20 <b_jonas> \o/ pity we don't have that bot still \o/
18:22:10 <b_jonas> I'm reading the rules for that contest. It says I have to agree all the material for the esolang can be published on their website, but it doesn't say that the winner will be announced on the website. They can keep the winner in secret,
18:22:25 <b_jonas> and then multiple people can try to claim that the organizers told them they won.
18:22:40 <b_jonas> They will probably not do that though.
18:23:10 <int-e> they even reserve the right to not declare a winner at all
18:23:29 <int-e> (or did, when I read their terms ... a week or two ago)
18:23:35 <b_jonas> int-e: well sure, that makes sense
18:23:49 <b_jonas> if they don't receive any good submissions, then they shouldn't declare a winner
18:23:58 <b_jonas> and at this point they can't be sure they'll receive any
18:26:47 -!- Cale has joined.
18:28:20 <zzo38> There is the rule in GURPS if your character is the kind of creature with ten mouths, but it doesn't specify in case some are different such as some don't speak or they have different biting damage from each other.
18:32:01 <\oren\> Bild: Ist Donald Trump ein Sexmonster?
18:48:02 -!- imode has joined.
19:00:18 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
19:02:02 <wob_jonas> How does this Cale syta contest understand "Originality"? Can you win with a language you've published years ago, if it was original at the time? Can you submit a language someone else has designed years ago?
19:02:17 <ais523> wob_jonas: I don't know; they have an email address, you could ask them
19:02:50 <wob_jonas> is the other site for the channel logs up now?
19:03:01 <ais523> I suspect they want a new language though, or at least one that wasn't previously public
19:03:04 <wob_jonas> it still only has logs till mid-year
19:03:16 <ais523> glogbot hasn't been here for ages
19:04:48 <ais523> inertia, also it's still useful for older logs
19:07:12 <wob_jonas> couldn't we just get whoever maintains the tunes logs to link to the codu logs from the list page/
19:07:28 <wob_jonas> I think it was out of the topic for a while
19:07:38 <ais523> not easily, I think the tunes logs have been on autopilot for years if not decades
19:07:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:13:36 -!- augur has joined.
19:28:11 <wob_jonas> argh, I let too much dirty laundry pile up. this would need three loads, but three absolutely won't fit in the weekend
19:35:30 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:37:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:38:03 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:46:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:46:42 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to archeology.
19:48:22 -!- jeffl35 has changed nick to physiology.
20:05:01 -!- ais523 has quit.
20:05:20 -!- archeology has changed nick to computing.
20:06:32 -!- iovoid has changed nick to programming.
20:07:06 -!- boily has joined.
20:11:23 <HackEgo> mythology//Mythology is the study of myths, moths and mirths.
20:11:31 <HackEgo> Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs.
20:12:26 <boily> `learn Mothballs are the main ingredient of a traditional soup of eastern european origin.
20:12:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'mothball': Mothballs are the main ingredient of a traditional soup of eastern european origin.
20:13:26 <HackEgo> A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit.
20:13:30 <boily> ah, messemblait aussi.
20:13:52 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined.
20:14:00 <boily> mhelloonythellodwarf_
20:14:52 -!- computing has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:22:12 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to computing.
20:22:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Quit: When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty).
20:28:07 -!- digin4 has joined.
20:29:41 -!- digin4 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:32:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
20:37:59 -!- Zarutian has joined.
20:43:19 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to mathematics.
20:49:12 <wob_jonas> ah yes, that other wisdom entry in hungarian
20:49:39 <wob_jonas> I think those two are the only one, but I haven't searched
20:51:06 <boily> `` grep -EHIi 'ő|ű' wisdom/*
20:51:14 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/b_jonas:b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. \ wisdom/ent:Ents are very useful creatures for the puzzle of writing town names in Hungary as t
20:51:58 <wob_jonas> boily: nah, those are rare. grep for /á|é|gy|sz|ny|\baz\b/ to find them better
20:52:52 <boily> `` find wisdom/ -type f -exec grep -EHIi 'á|é|gy|sz|ny|\baz\b' {} \;
20:53:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/itymology:Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement. \ wisdom/french:Le français n'est pas le démon, visitez les Coupeurs. Ne pas couvrir. Meilleur avant! \ wisdom/thé:Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth. \ wisdom/lie bracket:Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not
20:53:31 <boily> «é» is too French.
20:53:45 <wob_jonas> boily: yeah, you have to hand-check it later
20:53:53 <wob_jonas> or maybe add some anti-french exclusion terms
20:53:56 <boily> `` find wisdom/ -type f -exec grep -EHIi 'á|gy|sz|ny|\baz\b' {} | cut -d':' -f1 \;
20:53:57 <HackEgo> cut: ;: No such file or directory \ find: missing argument to `-exec'
20:54:50 <boily> `` for i in wisdom/*; do grep -EHIi 'á|gy|sz|ny|\baz\b' $i | cut -d':' -f1; done
20:55:20 <HackEgo> grep: `?: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/6: No such file or directory \
20:55:26 <wob_jonas> why not just grep -l instead of cut/
20:55:42 <boily> because I forgot about that option.
20:56:30 <wob_jonas> boily: I added a short --help text to my grep clone that lists only the more useful options, I can use that as a reference; though some useful options like -x and -w are missing from that clone entirely
20:57:43 <wob_jonas> look at http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/cgrep and grep -A 20 HELP_MESSAGE in it
20:59:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:59:55 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:00:48 <wob_jonas> or maybe grep -A 20 HELP_MESSAGE\ = in it so you don't get the code around where it's used, only the definition
21:11:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
21:13:27 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:16:21 -!- augur_ has joined.
21:20:03 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:32:33 <lynn> How's this channel been? I keep forgetting to check here ·◡·;
21:33:44 <int-e> (though I don't have much right to complain, I'm not talking much about esoteric stuff either)
21:37:09 * lynn . o O («coi ly.» could be directed at me, too)
21:37:35 <quintopia> yeah. i suppose. if you put the space there.
21:37:46 <quintopia> but i wouldn't have thought to truncate lynn to ly
21:38:12 * boily woggles at lynn. «hellynn!»
21:38:30 <boily> I'm invaded by weird people from Québec City.
21:38:31 <lynn> It's a Lojban joke (I guess since I last talked in here I became the kind of person who makes Lojban jokes)
21:39:23 <wob_jonas> lynn: nah, that wouldn't work, that would look like you're trying to greet boily, not you
21:39:58 <lynn> Well that's precisely the other ½ of this joke!
21:39:59 <wob_jonas> I mean, yeah, if you think more about it ly. would tell it refers to you, but at the surface level
21:40:20 <quintopia> lynn: it was a original a porthello of Lojban "coi" and "boily"
21:40:32 <lynn> "porthello" omg
21:40:52 <wob_jonas> yeah... that's a strange word, I didn't understand it at first
21:41:02 <int-e> . o O ( lynn should give their thoughts a bit more breathing space )
21:42:09 <quintopia> boily: so did beer come out unscathed?
21:42:17 * lynn . o O I('m bad at thought)s
21:43:06 <int-e> lynn: they must be seeping out of your ears by now...
21:43:56 -!- imode has joined.
21:44:00 * lynn . o O ( ) I was gonna say something but it escaped my mind
21:49:34 <boily> quintopia: there was a sudden schedule shift. I was supposed to wednesday the beer, going to grab them now.
21:49:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SAVORY CHICKEN).
21:55:27 <wob_jonas> lynn: well ok, if it's a deliberate joke so obscure that most people will miss it, then I guess it'd be appropriate on #esoteric
21:56:05 -!- computing has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
21:56:44 <wob_jonas> though of course the problem is that you don't get to choose how other people greet you, they do
21:57:22 <wob_jonas> few people greet me as wob_jó naspot for example
21:57:28 -!- computing has joined.
22:03:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:04:27 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:07:42 -!- MDead has joined.
22:10:31 -!- MDead has quit (Client Quit).
22:10:34 -!- impomatic_ has joined.
22:22:08 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:22:21 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
22:31:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:32:28 -!- computing has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:52:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:39:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49994&oldid=49101 * Challenger5 * (+126)
23:41:33 -!- physiology has quit (Changing host).
23:41:33 -!- physiology has joined.
23:41:58 -!- otterbot has quit (Quit: Restart requested by programming: "SECRET").
23:42:15 -!- otherbot has joined.
23:42:35 -!- physiology has quit (Changing host).
23:42:35 -!- physiology has joined.
23:42:38 -!- otherbot has changed nick to Guest48379.
23:43:50 -!- Guest48379 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:44:06 -!- otherbot_ has joined.
23:46:01 -!- physiology has quit (Changing host).
23:46:01 -!- physiology has joined.
23:46:44 -!- physiology has quit (Changing host).
23:46:44 -!- physiology has joined.
23:46:54 -!- otherbot_ has quit (Client Quit).
23:47:13 -!- otherbot_ has joined.
23:47:42 -!- otherbot_ has changed nick to otherbot.
23:50:15 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
23:58:02 <\oren\> no matter how many times i kill ants, or how I kill them, they come back
23:58:58 <\oren\> I've tried squishing them, drowning them, boiling them, burning them, disolving them, and poisoning them
23:59:47 <\oren\> I thought the ants' hive mind would figure out that if they come here they die