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00:01:36 <boily> give Zarutian's idea ago, and we'll improve from there.
00:02:43 * boily mapoles himself in shame.
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01:03:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50368 * Challenger5 * (+1812) Created page with "Minipy is a golfing "language" created by Challenger5. It is Python, but with the following statements prepended to every program: <pre> import sys as y av = sys.argv v1 = av[..."
01:16:29 <HackEgo> wumpus//Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI.
01:16:47 <boily> the wumpus is strangely popular... fungot: did you muck with the RNG?
01:17:19 <boily> the 'got is silent. the RNG was compromised. we're doomed.
01:19:12 <oerjan> i keep getting the impression `wisdom unusually frequently displays the very newest wisdoms.
01:19:46 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
01:20:32 <boily> I still believe we're doomed.
01:21:07 <Zarutian> does the random picking happen in shuf?
01:22:40 <HackEgo> Usage: shuf [OPTION]... [FILE] \ or: shuf -e [OPTION]... [ARG]... \ or: shuf -i LO-HI [OPTION]... \ Write a random permutation of the input lines to standard output. \ \ Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. \ -e, --echo treat each ARG as an input line \ -i, --input-range=LO-HI treat ea
01:22:49 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//s,shuf,shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom,
01:22:52 <HackEgo> bin/wisdom//f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
01:23:05 <HackEgo> madbr//madbr alternates between making sense, and being logical. He doesn't monetize the brotherhood scheme.
01:23:16 <oerjan> Zarutian: it should. let's see if this helps :P
01:23:33 <oerjan> i don't recall seeing madbr in a while...
01:23:38 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
01:23:47 <Zarutian> where does HackEgo run? in an datacenter somewhere?
01:23:52 <oerjan> `sled bin/quote//s,shuf,shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom,
01:23:55 <HackEgo> bin/quote//#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -n 1; fi
01:24:10 <oerjan> Zarutian: cloudatcost, a very crappy VPS provider
01:24:45 <HackEgo> 427) <ais523> it actually worked, and faster than using Excel for rendering
01:25:35 <Zarutian> oerjan: so crappy that that /dev/urandom is just basically an psuedo random number generator?
01:27:06 <oerjan> Zarutian: i would doubt that...
01:27:49 <Zarutian> giving a good source of entropy is not cheap
01:28:10 <oerjan> Zarutian: i assume Gregor's installed a normal linux.
01:28:57 <oerjan> also afaiu /dev/urandom is adequate for anything non-cryptographic.
01:29:50 <Zarutian> oerjan: VPSes basically rent out Virtual Machines that emulate x86 servers, no?
01:30:50 <oerjan> it's crappy because there's essentially no service and often too little capacity. i don't think there's anything else wrong with it.
01:33:16 <Zarutian> is it Xen based or that other thing that I do not recall the name of?
01:33:52 <oerjan> i don't know. maybe fizzie knows (i'd ask Gregor but he's been idle for weeks again)
01:34:23 <oerjan> actually just days, but my guess is that was a pingout rather than him actually talking
01:34:58 <oerjan> fizzie is probably sleeping though.
01:35:53 <oerjan> int-e also has one of those servers, i recall. and is probably also sleeping.
01:36:21 <fizzie> It's not so late here.
01:36:37 <Zarutian> one or the other didnt have real rng in it. Mainly for tandem hot swapping (one is master, the others are slaves. Inputs are broadcasted to all but only master answers)
01:36:38 <oerjan> well i was going by whois
01:36:56 <oerjan> Zarutian: /dev/urandom doesn't need real rng.
01:37:47 <Zarutian> oerjan: indeed but it needs to be seeded regurarly unless you want it to succumb to bitrot ;-Þ
01:38:30 <fizzie> As for the HackEgo box, judging from lspci device names (a random source of information), it looks to be either VMware, or something using their devices.
01:38:59 <zzo38> There is also /dev/random if you want to make it slower
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01:39:07 <oerjan> anyway, it shouldn't possibly be worse than the actual PRNG shuf uses without that option.
01:39:40 <zzo38> You should need to test it to see whether or not it is worse.
01:39:53 <fizzie> Although there's two layers of VMitude for things running inside HackEgo, what with that UML thing as well.
01:40:09 <oerjan> i should hope /dev/urandom is just inherited
01:40:56 <fizzie> Well, I wouldn't be all that sure about that.
01:41:05 <fizzie> It may get seeded from the outside world, though.
01:41:40 <HackEgo> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 40442924 9608448 28761060 26% /dev
01:42:00 <oerjan> what was the command which actually worked
01:42:36 <oerjan> hm it might be unlikely to share all of /dev
01:42:49 <fizzie> "cat /proc/mounts" works, but it's really not at all relevant where the device nodes come from.
01:42:59 <fizzie> Since they're just a (major, minor) pair.
01:43:25 <fizzie> Well, a (type, major, minor) tuple, I guess.
01:50:44 <fizzie> Judging from a quick source dive, I get the impression that the UML kernel has its own copy of the /dev/{,u}random implementation (after all, you don't want it to inherit defects from the host if you run a newer UML kernel), but it's also got a UML-specific "hardware" RNG device, which actually reads from the host's /dev/random to provide entropy.
01:51:50 <fizzie> (That would be the "UML Host Random Number Generator (RNG) driver", arch/um/drivers/random.c.)
01:52:20 <fizzie> So reading from /dev/random on HackEgo probably indirectly reads from the host /dev/random, but all the bits go through the usual mangling and mixing and the like.
01:59:00 <zzo38> I was thinking of if a code for JavaScript or some other programming language you may able to compile a code with continuations for example { A; let B=continuation(C); D; } can become { A; return C(B=>{ D; }); } although if "let" is omitted then the code to compile into becomes more complicated. (It can also be complicated by mixing with other flow-controls.)
01:59:10 <zzo38> What would you think?
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02:11:07 <zzo38> How should it be implemented if mixing with other flow-controls?
02:12:14 <hppavilion[0]> Skynet was started because an exception was uncaught, so it had to terminate
02:13:51 <boily> hppavellon[0]. can you trigger the 'got?
02:15:34 <zzo38> (It also can't capture the entire continuation)
02:17:00 <fungot> hppavilion[0]: und noo i hefe-a a fnord fnord a fnord. only our ( probably fnord) by multiplying it by something that actually is pretty cool :) i'm just looking for gem-like perfection in a scheme implementation of md5 ( fnord)
02:17:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50369&oldid=50359 * BradleySadowsky * (+278) Added myself (shocking, I know)
02:17:25 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
02:17:37 <zzo38> But rather this kind of implementation I suggested is more like the kind of rewindable generator.
02:18:08 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
02:18:16 <fungot> hppavilion[0]: ' nothin' was to be fnord with all space. there seemed to be about as bad as actual nearness and several possible sights would have been had not his home lain outside the bounds of consciousness were let down, and at the same time burning some substance so pungent that its fumes escaped over the entire house, and especially during their main festivals or fnord, or the way that another half cried out although its
02:19:01 <fungot> Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
02:19:10 <fungot> hppavilion[0]: all t-rex has ever met and ever will meet! never try to have a theological discussion with god and he was all " i'm busy inventing the future!
02:21:56 <fungot> Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
02:22:02 <boily> fungot: fungot fungot.
02:22:02 <fungot> boily: just to help an fnord archive) i particularly admired tyndall's little speech " professor tyndall was president royal family: so... this classroom is in the same
02:23:42 <hppavilion[0]> fizzie: I feel like there should be a "what people say to fungot in the process of triggering fungot" style
02:23:42 <fungot> hppavilion[0]: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has. you came through, which is more fnord than they, for all you have to hire the fitting on the fnord back, my little dear, i shall have to leave any minute now
02:27:46 <boily> fungot: nostril! :D
02:27:46 <fungot> boily: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there documents... the guy tried to just use emacs modes for when it's spoken. or read, so that his mouth, pulled down by the gold saucer... think his name was close ever, and yet, at least, that is expressions which have not been able to
02:28:13 <boily> fungot: haven't seen the April Airbus one in a long time...
02:28:13 <fungot> boily: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there at once to eat much, much strong guy! much danger. open hatch.
02:33:33 <HackEgo> 1/2:mroman_//mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure. (NSFW) \ aah//ambiguous acronym here \ taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too v
02:34:29 <HackEgo> 2/2:oluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions). \ brain//Brains are just receptacles for bricks. \ swedish//Swedish is the language of fine cuisine.
02:34:43 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 380:2012-05-07 <Tanëb> learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. \ 1000:2012-12-09 <FreeFul̈l> revert 0 \ 1001:2012-12-09 <oerjän> revert 999 \ 1171:2012-12-16 <oerjän> learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn\'t a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. \ 1172:2012-12-16
02:34:59 <HackEgo> taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
02:36:44 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
02:36:59 <boily> still longer, still boring ^^
02:39:10 <hppavilion[0]> http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=3054&butiwouldratherbereading=onewheretrexwearsmore
02:41:49 <boily> shachaf: not warm enough for winter.
02:41:51 <lambdabot> CYUL 240200Z 23007KT 15SM OVC025 M02/M05 A3033 RMK SC8 SLP275
02:41:59 <lambdabot> KOAK 240153Z 30006KT 10SM CLR 13/08 A3033 RMK AO2 SLP271 T01280083
02:42:05 <lambdabot> ENVA 240150Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW032 SCT045 01/00 Q1014 RMK WIND 670FT 24009KT
02:42:15 <boily> it's winterer than Norway...
02:42:43 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Thu Nov 24 03:42:42 2016
02:42:47 <lambdabot> Local time for boily is Wed, 23 Nov 2016 21:42:47 -0500
02:44:46 <boily> time to go wrap myself in rectangular textile...
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02:49:41 <shachaf> https://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/nopython3.html
02:50:08 <shachaf> it's such a shame python 3 isn't turing-complete
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02:59:21 <Phantom_Hoover> TIL that every language except python 2 isn't turing complete
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03:06:02 <zzo38> I think converting a code with goto into a code without goto is easy enough to do (for JavaScript at least, and possibly others too) if the programming language supports multi-level break/continue, and that you impose two restrictions: [1] You must jump within the same function. [2] You cannot jump into a block (jumping out of a block is OK).
03:06:28 <zzo38> Backward jumps: { A; B: C; goto B; D; } -> { A; B: for(;;) { C; continue B; D; break; } } Forward jumps: { A; goto C; B; C: D; } -> { A; C: for(;;) { break C; B; break; } D; } When jumping out of a block, move the for loop out to the nearest compatible block.
03:06:43 <zzo38> Do you notice any mistake I made? Do you like this?
03:07:14 <shachaf> Why can't you jump into a block in JavaScript?
03:07:54 <zzo38> It would be more difficult to implement if you could; it would also cause problems with scoped variables if you did.
03:08:12 <shachaf> Oh, I guess JavaScript has scoped variables now.
03:10:23 <shachaf> Apparently someone implemented a compiler from JavaScript-with-goto to JavaScript.
03:10:45 <shachaf> But it looks like it maybe only supports backward jumps.
03:10:50 <shachaf> And also the website is gone.
03:11:35 <zzo38> Yes I have seen that mentioned, and yes it is gone and I think it has some other problems too.
03:11:43 <oerjan> shachaf: they extended it to support feather primitives, after which it erased itself from existence hth
03:11:45 <zzo38> My proposal is you can make backward and forward.
03:12:03 <shachaf> oerjan: what do you mean by "after" twh
03:12:29 <oerjan> sorry, i wioll haven a grammatical error
03:12:57 <zzo38> What does "wioll haven" means?
03:13:29 <oerjan> zzo38: it's time travel grammar from hitchhiker's guide hth
03:14:52 <zzo38> The third case is if the same label is used both as a backward and forward jump; in that case just to split it into two labels before making the conversion as described above.
03:14:55 <shachaf> zzo38: Can you implement goto (not supporting scopes) with one switch statement and one loop?
03:15:55 <zzo38> Yes, but you can't mix that with other flow-controls so well.
03:16:37 <zzo38> (Maybe it is also slower than this way; I don't know)
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04:38:59 <\oren\> breaking news u spez admits to changing people's reddit posts untraceably
04:39:51 <\oren\> horay, more reddit drama
04:41:14 <shachaf> Can you file my Reddit bug report for me?
04:41:21 <shachaf> http://www.outlinenone.com/
04:41:36 <shachaf> You're obviously much more in touch than I am.
04:42:31 <\oren\> I don't actually have a reddit account I just lurk moar
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07:44:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50370&oldid=50368 * Challenger5 * (-1)
07:45:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50371&oldid=50370 * Challenger5 * (+32)
07:46:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50372&oldid=50371 * Challenger5 * (+17)
07:46:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50373&oldid=50372 * Challenger5 * (+45)
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07:56:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50374&oldid=50373 * Challenger5 * (+0)
08:02:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50375&oldid=50374 * Challenger5 * (+40)
08:02:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minipy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50376&oldid=50375 * Challenger5 * (-6)
08:14:26 <zzo38> I looked at Chris Pressey's List of Unfinished Interesting Esolangs; I like this kind of ideas
08:15:25 <pikhq> Hrm, looks like he's not around ATM.
08:25:25 <zzo38> What they mention for Praline can help if you are going to make a non-local return. (Just make return a function; calling it will return.) Z-machine has something similar: The CATCH instruction will result in a frame pointer. Using THROW with that frame pointer will return from the function containing CATCH.
08:26:00 <zzo38> (Also, in BASIC if you use GOSUB then you can RETURN to a line other than the line that called it if you want to.)
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10:14:25 <b_jonas> ARGH! code is in flux and the interfaces keep changing work is hard!
10:14:45 <b_jonas> I hate it, I spend so much time following the changes in other people's code that I can't work on my own code,
10:14:54 <b_jonas> which my bosses hate because then I can't get anything useful done.
10:15:08 <b_jonas> wait, wrong channel, I should complain about this on another channel
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11:00:59 <izalove> `` echo trump place | tr -dc a-z | sed 's/./&\n/g' | sort | tr -d '\n'
11:01:08 <izalove> `` echo rectal pump | tr -dc a-z | sed 's/./&\n/g' | sort | tr -d '\n'
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12:48:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Steve * New user account
13:00:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50377&oldid=50369 * Steve * (+380)
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16:58:54 <b_jonas> exg: I just found out something about MSVC 2015 that makes me scream. they have their own frocking __pragma preprocessor-magic-keyword and don't support the C99/C++11 _Pragma preprocessor-magic-keyword. Apparently they still don't care about C99 at all.
17:01:07 <b_jonas> So I wonder if libecb should have a macro for issuing preprocessor-time diagnostics, such that ECB_SOMETHING("foo") expands to _Pragma("message \"foo\"") on gcc but __pragma(message("foo")) on MSVC, except of course it should do the Right Thing instead of what I said.
17:02:03 <b_jonas> I wish there was a similar thing for compile-time diagnostics, that is, a version of static_assert that gives a non-error message.
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17:31:35 <b_jonas> alercah: what's its name, or which library is it in?
17:33:59 <izalove> is there a unicode character for :: ?
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18:14:21 <b_jonas> alercah: I'll check. I wonder if it uses the deprecated attribute (any of its variants, as in C++14, gcc, msvc variant of it)
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18:52:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ivancr72 * New user account
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18:59:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50378&oldid=50377 * Ferrosurgeon * (+241) Added me!
19:00:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50379&oldid=50350 * Ferrosurgeon * (-15) Update broken link
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19:10:08 <izalove> http://beta.speedtest.net/result/5824910301
19:10:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50380&oldid=50379 * Ferrosurgeon * (+76) Suggest bf interpreter written in system programming language
19:12:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50381&oldid=50380 * Ferrosurgeon * (-2) Linky oopsie
19:14:00 <shachaf> http://news.vodafone.it/2016/10/04/vodafone-porta-la-fibra-in-8-distretti-industriali-italiani/ ?
19:14:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50382&oldid=50378 * Ferrosurgeon * (+1)
19:24:37 <b_jonas> oh! so oerjan found a delexing algorithm for Incident that ais believes works? interestnig
19:24:53 <b_jonas> I was trying to create such an algorithm, but haven't found one yet
19:25:04 <b_jonas> I'll have to look at that one
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19:44:19 <lynn> izalove: oooooh that is fast
19:48:33 <shachaf> I used to have a connection that fast at work.
19:57:13 <lynn> I have one that fast at uni... 1Gbps upload too ^v^
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19:58:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.nl: not found
20:00:05 <shachaf> It's Thanksgiving, I'm told.
20:01:08 <shachaf> ♪ You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant ♪
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20:06:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:BradleySadowsky]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50383 * BradleySadowsky * (+65) Create my user page
20:06:05 <\oren\> I accidentally invented an image format
20:06:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50384 * BradleySadowsky * (+4271) Create and populate DROL page
20:06:37 <izalove> not another fucking image format
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20:08:12 <\oren\> it represents monochrome images using the unicode braille characters to show groups of 8 pixels
20:09:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50385&oldid=50384 * BradleySadowsky * (+10) /* Commands */ Edit the if loop info
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20:13:34 <\oren\> I am trying to make an Ncurses font editor
20:13:53 <\oren\> to escape from the tyranny of GUI
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20:29:48 <DHeadshot> \oren\: That actually sounds really useful!
20:31:23 <izalove> how often do you edit fonts?
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20:54:36 <\oren\> i also need to finish my bdf to ttf convertor
21:01:25 <b_jonas> \oren\: I just realized I completely missed the ICFP 2016 contest. I was busy at that time, so I didn't plan on participating, but I should have at least read about it later. I knew it was when I was busy, but after that I went on a vacation and after that it totally went out of my head.
21:01:30 <b_jonas> http://icfpc2016.blogspot.hu/2016/08/task-description.html
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23:08:14 <HackEgo> fiora//Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi.
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23:20:13 <boily> \oren\: he\\oren\. can you enthicken 幻?
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23:38:02 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters.
23:38:08 <HackEgo> \oren\ is an attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... well, there isn't much else in a nick, is there?
23:39:22 <boily> `` sed -i 's/well.*$/unenthickenable, eh?/' wisdom/\\oren\\
23:39:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/\oren\//\oren\ is an attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... unenthickenable, eh?
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