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00:14:55 <izalove> you know that gcc lets you grab the address of a label?
00:14:59 <zzo38> I want to add into OAA some way to imitate a more sophisticated parser so that you do not have to program each case manually if for example you have several objects named KEY and one is BLUE KEY and one is RED KEY, so that if you have just one of the keys you can write KEY and it will work; another case may be that you don't have to duplicate the code for IT in every method, or to define just one "fancy noun" phrase list and then use it in all meth
00:15:09 <zzo38> izalove: Yes, I have read about that (but never used it)
00:15:47 <izalove> now you have the size of a piece of code
00:16:20 <izalove> and you can print it with write(1, &&label1, &&label2-&&label1)
00:16:33 <izalove> ok that was a random thing
00:17:53 <zzo38> I already wrote it (because I was writing most of it when you wrote some more), so now, see if you or anyone answer. I wanted to figure out what might be the best way to implement such things (in terms both of syntax and of generated code)
00:18:11 <zzo38> (I did think of some ideas but I don't know if it is any good)
00:20:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50396&oldid=50395 * Ferrosurgeon * (+1531) First draft outline at a stopping point modulo formatting errors
00:22:21 <Jafet> on the topic of randomness, O'Neill suggests using the stack address as a seed, because operating systems set the stack address using a secure random generator
00:23:07 <zzo38> Maybe, but I wouldn't expect that will always work
00:23:56 <shachaf> How many bits can you get out of the stack address?
00:25:06 <zzo38> Often the current time is used as a random number seed; in a BASIC program you may write RANDOMIZE TIMER to use the current time of day as a random number seed.
00:25:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50397&oldid=50396 * Ferrosurgeon * (+0)
00:25:56 <zzo38> How many bits is stack address also I expect will depend on the system
00:26:03 <zzo38> (and also the alignment)
00:28:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50398&oldid=50397 * Ferrosurgeon * (+12) Nailed it
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00:29:40 <Jafet> seems to be about 30 bits here
00:30:30 <Jafet> `cc main(a){ printf("%p", a); }
00:31:08 <zzo38> The argument "a" there is just argc
00:31:14 <Jafet> `cc main(a){ printf("%p", &a); }
00:31:40 <Jafet> `cc main(a){ printf("%p", &a); }
00:31:58 <Jafet> approximately zero, evidently
00:33:21 <boily> fungot: what's your address?
00:33:21 <fungot> boily: they say that feeling an unexpected draft of air. according to his sister and maintained that she has a wary woman rivaling her in the form of satha, an ageless hate in its left it dead, candelabrum*, *candle: faustus: come on mephistopheles. what roads would any dare to tread, what your magic can do it well, hence the nature of the way he does not walk now in middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but
00:34:31 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
00:36:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50399&oldid=50398 * Ferrosurgeon * (+37) Got rid of 'event'
00:37:30 <zzo38> The following OAA program will make Thue-Morse sequence: [&]%#1>%@*>,#1>:%@<.#<PI*.#%@<.#<NOT>%@%@<NXT>,#,#<DN>,#</%#%#<2MUL>,#%#<>%@FO>CR| (The actual program contains comments, indentation, and line breaks, but here it is shown without.)
00:38:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50400&oldid=50399 * Ferrosurgeon * (+71) Whoops, wire length defines its delay
00:43:14 <zzo38> Also, when compiled in 16-bit mode, the result is 279 bytes long. (It will be longer if compiled in 32-bit mode.)
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00:50:46 <fizzie> `cc main(){ int a; printf("%p", &a); }
00:50:49 <fizzie> `cc main(){ int a; printf("%p", &a); }
00:50:52 <fizzie> `cc main(){ int a; printf("%p", &a); }
00:51:00 <fizzie> There's a little bit of randomness there.
00:53:12 <zzo38> Yes, a few, but most bits are the same each time
00:54:26 <fizzie> I wouldn't be surprised if UML cut down on the usual number of random bits available for stack ASLR.
01:03:03 <boily> fizzielle. UML, as in the overcomplicated pseudo-software-engineering diagrams?
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01:19:08 <fizzie> boily: User-Mode Linux, the thing that's powering the HackEgo sandbox.
01:19:29 <fizzie> From what I recall, it does a bunch of crafty things when it comes to address spaces.
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01:26:59 <fizzie> izalove: I think I've seen a couple of jump tables implemented by making a table of (&&target - &&base) deltas, because that lets the table be position-independent. (Then you just goto *(base + table[x]).)
01:27:38 <fizzie> Actually, that sort of thing is even mentioned as an alternative in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Labels-as-Values.html
01:28:34 <boily> fungot: can you hack HackEgo to uncraft his address management?
01:28:34 <fungot> boily: they say that he is sullen and morose, drunk on his birthday, did my spirit refuse to comprehend the meaning of what i had selected his features as beautiful. beautiful!--great god! his yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was long and gleaming and on his eight- footed horse, the wolf runs," answered pelias cryptically. " this is an abundance of food but, instead of teeth; it is
01:28:50 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:29:04 <fizzie> fungot: When is your birthday, anyway?
01:29:05 <fungot> fizzie: crom: warily conan scanned his surroundings, all alone and by his own food has arisen the legend tells how the indian deity quetzalcoatl came from? identify yourself! you could've had a twinkle in his eye.
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01:30:50 <fizzie> "you could've had a twinkle in his eye" is an interesting phrase.
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01:32:21 <fizzie> First commit in ~src/fungot is dated "Thu Aug 14 22:22:10 2008 +0300" but that's just "Imported unversioned fungot sources", so probably the actual birthday was a bit before.
01:32:21 <fungot> fizzie: they say that you are the devil's work. baggins. he gazed after tron, asking riddles and cooking, some fifteen miles as the father of rivers and fountains, was the daughter of jupiter and juno. ( greek mythology, by james joyce)
01:35:23 <fizzie> Some log-grepping suggests it might've been that day, actually.
01:35:37 <boily> fizzie: are you the devil's work?
01:35:52 <boily> I think we can work with August 14 being Fungotday.
01:36:56 <Jafet> the time before a source file is added to version control is analogous to gestation
01:40:16 <fizzie> Fun(got) fact: if that's the case, then it learned to talk at an age of 16 days or so.
01:40:44 <boily> fungot's biology's always been a little bit weird...
01:40:44 <fungot> boily: they say that the best place to go to great lengths to inflict pain or cause injury. suddenly, the freshest grapefruit you've ever eaten was dull, and yet not be sure what they cannot grasp.
01:41:57 <fizzie> fungot: Are you sure there even is a "best place" for that?
01:41:57 <fungot> fizzie: fountain: rest! this little fountain runs thus for aye: it is said to possess powers which mere mortals can scarcely comprehend, let him drink, and can spread a quickly fatal illness to his feet.
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02:04:28 <boily> there are questions Man isn't meant to know the answer of. dark depths of the Universe, floating around in their ineffable shapes, fluttering, never colliding...
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02:08:40 <boily> and now, even the Moon, that selenious astre of Gray Tides, has fallen from the sky, leaving in its palpable gap a lurching hole of eigengrau, the eye of the hapless observer naïvely blinking in incongruous disbelief.
02:08:48 <zzo38> Is that why you don't understand dark matter so well?
02:09:27 <oerjan> helloily. what is this about the moon
02:10:31 <fizzie> Huh, what on earth happened there. There's a 5-minute period where the esolangs.org qps jumped from its normal <1 to ~50 or so, the mean request processing time went up from ~0.2s to 3.5s and >50% of responses were HTTP 5xx.
02:10:40 <fizzie> I think this monitoring is raising more questions than it answers.
02:10:58 <oerjan> i believe it is generally agreed that the moon falling from the sky would have rather immediate, but briefly, observable consequences.
02:11:32 <boily> oerjan: I was feeling purple, and moony ping timeouted hth
02:12:07 <oerjan> (briefly because we'd then be dead hth)
02:12:46 <oerjan> i guess except for the people on the space stations (there's a chinese one too now, right?)
02:13:23 <boily> I'm sure we'd manage. stiff upper lip, keep calm, eat moon cheese...
02:13:53 <boily> hppavilion[1]: that one is the "self-gray" your brain creates when there's no light for your eyes to perceive.
02:13:55 <oerjan> boily: it's more the "kinetic energy melts all of earth's crust" part that's a bit tricky to be calm about.
02:14:22 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ok that may be stretching it.
02:14:58 <oerjan> hm did xkcd whatif do this one already
02:15:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I think they've done the opposite several times
02:15:31 <hppavilion[1]> The moon frequently leaves earth's orbit in whatifs
02:16:01 <hppavilion[1]> (Once because electrons, anotheronce because of people a-fahrin thaer lazars)
02:16:32 <oerjan> i don't think that counts.
02:16:50 <boily> oerjan: melting crust means melted cheese means pizza means pineapple. I don't think Randall mentioned pineapples yet.
02:17:15 <oerjan> boily: generally i believe even the swiss find lava hot cheese a bit too much.
02:19:37 <oerjan> . o O ( if this happened, how would you decide the boundary between lava and magma )
02:20:33 <boily> . o O ( delicious magma cheese from fire elemental buffalo milk... )
02:20:46 <oerjan> google still has this stupid idea that i should prefer norwegian results ...
02:21:06 <oerjan> as in, listing the norwegian wikipedia near the top and the english not at all.
02:22:10 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: You could probably do a pseudo-vpn or something?
02:22:42 <oerjan> i'm not saying i don't want norwegian hits at _all_
02:23:21 * oerjan just adds "english", that worked.
02:23:38 <fizzie> I'd test what I get but sadly there's no British Wikipedia variant. :/
02:24:22 <zzo38> I think Wikipedia is just to write in English in general, whether they are British or American or Canadian.
02:24:30 <fizzie> I think I've gotten the Finnish one when back in Finland preferred over the real one.
02:26:20 <fizzie> "Carrots are grown in the ground, and carrots roots are a common edible vegetable. After cleaning, the roots may be eaten raw or cooked. They are served as part of many dishes. In Portugal, carrot jam is a speciality."
02:26:24 <fizzie> Look, Simple English Wikipedia, I think that last bit just feels a little out of place.
02:27:56 <boily> People sit on chairs, and carrot jam is Portuguese.
02:29:04 <HackEgo> Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/
02:33:01 <HackEgo> A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
02:34:06 <oerjan> <fizzie> shachaf: Well, it's Friday here by the time the actual TGIF rolls around. <-- wait, is this _not_ short for thank god it's friday?
02:35:22 <boily> hppavilion[1]: what's the difference between a duck.
02:36:23 <alercah> oerjan: it is short for thank god it's friday
02:36:40 <alercah> it is a weekly meeting/party/presentation thingy at google
02:36:53 <oerjan> alercah: the log conversation seemed to contradict itself
02:37:01 <hppavilion[1]> [fact: 'duck' is technically an acceptable alternative to 'ducks' for a plural of singular 'duck']
02:37:04 <alercah> which was moved to thursday, presumably because it ended up having to be celebrated monday in areas east of mountain view
02:37:47 <oerjan> `learn_append wegian There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from.
02:37:51 <HackEgo> Learned 'wegian': A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from.
02:38:36 <fizzie> oerjan: It's short for "thank Google it's Friday".
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02:41:16 <oerjan> . o O ( so what do the australian google employees do )
02:41:19 <fizzie> I assume any non-Friday expansion of the F is just a backronym to make it less silly to have a TGIF on Thursdays. (TGIT doesn't sound as good either.)
02:43:26 <oerjan> someone's going to have to watch it late, anyway
02:43:36 <boily> hppavilion[1]: that's because one leg is both the same.
02:44:05 <fizzie> oerjan: MTV TGIF is Thusday at around 5pm or so (forget exactly when), so as long as the delta is less than 24 hours they can still have it on Friday at a sane time.
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02:46:13 <fizzie> oerjan: It doesn't have to be *at* a reasonable time, it just needs to have happened *before* a reasonable time so that you can watch a recording.
02:47:03 <fizzie> Like we do in the UK, because it's something like 1am on Friday when they're actually doing it.
02:48:07 <fizzie> I don't know if Australia/Japan/etc. watch it live, I guess they could.
02:53:03 <shachaf> oerjan: Thursday Google Information Forum hth
02:53:23 <fizzie> `` TZ=Asia/Tokyo date --date='2016-11-24T17:30:00-0800'
02:53:24 <HackEgo> Fri Nov 25 10:30:00 JST 2016
02:53:42 <shachaf> It used to be on Friday but it was moved for the reason fizzie mentioned.
02:54:49 <zzo38> What other file formats will we need to add support into Farbfeld Utilities?
02:55:51 <fizzie> shachaf: Is there anything special on Fridays at all in US?
02:56:24 <zzo38> The 2600 meetings are first Friday of each month (in most countries)
02:56:36 <shachaf> Every week? I don't remember anything official.
02:57:04 <shachaf> Some people would frizzle, which stands for Friday Sauzzle.
02:57:31 <shachaf> Thurzzling was also common.
02:57:54 <shachaf> Along with Wedzzling, Tuezzling, and Monzzling.
02:58:17 <shachaf> But I think frizzles were the most common.
02:58:27 <shachaf> (Not counting the weekends, of course.)
02:59:25 <fizzie> My earlier nick was "Fizzle".
02:59:42 <fizzie> No relation to Frizzling.
03:03:51 <lambdabot> *** "sozzled" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
03:03:51 <lambdabot> adj 1: very drunk [syn: {besotted}, {blind drunk}, {blotto},
03:03:51 <lambdabot> {crocked}, {cockeyed}, {fuddled}, {loaded}, {pie-eyed},
03:03:51 <lambdabot> {pissed}, {pixilated}, {plastered}, {slopped}, {sloshed},
03:03:53 <lambdabot> {smashed}, {soaked}, {soused}, {sozzled}, {squiffy},
03:04:31 <shachaf> I guess @wn is misspelling it.
03:04:31 <oerjan> apparently sauzzling is a google hapax legomenon
03:05:22 <shachaf> Oh, is certainly not used throughout the company.
03:06:31 <oerjan> i believe there was another word for that but i've amortized it.
03:07:05 <HackEgo> An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember.
03:07:11 <oerjan> not that there's anything wrong with hapax legomenon
03:07:19 <oerjan> that does seem a little out of date
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03:28:12 <\oren\> my pathfinder is working
03:28:22 <\oren\> creating paths out of bitmaps
03:28:34 <\oren\> example output: start at 1,7:RRDRULUURURDRDDLDRURRDDLDLULDRDLLLURULDLULUU
03:29:49 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: I'm sorry, Ms. Shrdlu isn't here right now. Can I take a message?
03:31:02 <\oren\> i should probably make sure that all the paths are closed
03:32:05 <\oren\> oh await all i have to do is chaeck that the number of u = d and l = r
03:33:54 <\oren\> > sort "RRDRULUURURDRDDLDRURRDDLDLULDRDLLLURULDLULUU"
03:33:56 <lambdabot> "DDDDDDDDDDDLLLLLLLLLLLRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUU"
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03:35:58 <\oren\> now that I've got the hard part working, it will be much easier to finish up my bdf->ttf program
03:39:46 <zzo38> Is there the program converting other way too?
03:40:51 <\oren\> fontforge can do both, but converting from bdf to ttf with fontforge is too splow
03:40:55 <\oren\> fontforge can do both, but converting from bdf to ttf with fontforge is too slow
03:41:23 <\oren\> so I'm working on my own program which will be faster
03:46:11 <\oren\> the output of my program will also be smaller than the output from fontforge
03:50:52 <zzo38> OK, that can help too
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03:53:06 <zzo38> Plese add on here what picture file formats you wish it implement. http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=File+formats
04:13:50 <\oren\> we need to put the Χ back into Χmas!
04:25:17 <\oren\> of course! using X is an anaχρόνism!
04:25:30 <HackEgo> [U+03B9 GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA]
04:26:12 <hppavilion[1]> What renderable character has the greatest unicode codepoint?
04:26:55 <\oren\> in my font, probably 🃟
04:32:32 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, hamming weight is just hamming mass times g
04:32:54 <hppavilion[1]> Where g is a value expressed in hamming distance per hamming time squared
04:34:20 <\oren\> thecurrently highest defined characters are in the tertiary ideographic plane
04:34:38 <\oren\> http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2015/15281-n4688-small-seal.pdf
04:35:18 <\oren\> these havent been fully accepted yet
04:35:20 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Where is that relative to the infernal plane?
04:36:24 <\oren\> http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2F800.pdf <-- this is the highest section of actually defined characters
04:36:50 <\oren\> the tertiary ideographic plane starts at U+30000
04:38:02 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2FA00 0x2FA1D
04:38:02 <HackEgo> 頩𩖶飢䬳餩馧駂駾䯎𩬰鬒鱀鳽䳎䳭鵧 \ 𪃎䳸𪄅𪈎𪊑麻䵖黹黾鼅鼏鼖鼻𪘀
04:38:21 <\oren\> those above are the highest currently defined characters
04:40:26 <\oren\> and will fall back to variants unless you have a crazy taiwanese font
04:41:18 <\oren\> probably will fall back and not display correctly
04:41:55 <alercah> what is the purpose of them?
04:41:55 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: What types of crazy are sufficient? PTSD, senile dementia, alzheimer's, what?
04:42:40 <\oren\> alercah: basically they are used when scholars don't want Han unification
04:43:17 <alercah> thus proving that it was a bad idea?
04:43:19 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Hm, why not solve han unification with a "deunify to <hanlet>" block?
04:44:11 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that wouldn't work because in some cases adjactent cities in china use different forms
04:44:27 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if DEUNIFY TO EARLY MIDDLE CANTO-MANDARIN is used, it can change the rendering of the following character to how it has to look in early middle canto-mandarin
04:45:30 <\oren\> instead they deicided to create hundred thousand disunified variants
04:45:32 * hppavilion[1] really hopes early middle canto-mandarin is a real thing
04:45:48 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: ...I think it's time to take away their character encoding privledges and try again.
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04:48:13 <\oren\> i mean oops s/deicide/decide
04:51:15 <pikhq> As those are called "CJK compatibility ideographs", I'm pretty sure those exist not for the sake of scholars, but rather for ensuring Unicode's repertoire is a superset of all other encodings'.
04:51:16 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Also, if you fail an s,,,, the rule is you have to repair the s###. Not just try again.
04:51:49 <pikhq> And research confirms, that's for the sake of CNS 11643 compatibility.
04:52:14 <pikhq> (which is a *little used*, but definitely real, charset)
04:53:17 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: If I make a character set and #esoteric uses it a bit, does that mean Unicode has to incorporate it?
04:53:33 <hppavilion[1]> If so, why have we not yet made a Tengwar charset so we finally get Tengwar in unicode?
04:53:38 <pikhq> Unicode probably won't care unless there's sufficient real-world use.
04:54:10 <pikhq> FWIW, the Klingon language community is currently doing basically that, with Klingon script in the PUA.
04:54:23 <pikhq> CNS 11643 was written in 1992.
04:55:29 <pikhq> The Unicode solution to not wanting Han unification is, of course, to use variation selectors.
04:56:52 <hppavilion[1]> I really feel like we should just take away their standardization privileges and try again with a new standard.
04:57:28 <pikhq> They did, there are well-defined variation selectors you can use to select which CJK variant of a glyph you want.
04:57:44 <pikhq> And, no, that won't work. Unicode is about as entrenched as ASCII.
04:57:57 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: We managed to stop using ASCII in favour of Unicode
04:58:40 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: So if the selectors exist, why are there also 100,000 specifically-dedicated characters?
04:58:41 <pikhq> And that's mostly because UTF-8 is a superset of it.
04:59:00 <pikhq> Because you still need to round-trip compat them.
04:59:59 <\oren\> my font supports tengwar
05:00:02 <pikhq> Unicode has the property that you can do the following: legacy charset -> Unicode -> legacy charset.
05:00:22 <\oren\>
05:00:23 <\oren\>
05:00:59 <pikhq> Which of course means that if someone *else* made a bad decoding decision, Unicode is stuck with it.
05:01:10 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
05:01:18 <adu> hppavilion[1]!
05:01:29 <pikhq> And that property is far too useful and relied upon to be worth taking away.
05:01:37 <zzo38> Unicode is no good
05:02:00 <adu> hppavilion[1]: sorry it took me 10 minutes to respond
05:03:27 <adu> hppavilion[1]: nooo
05:03:47 <zzo38> Not all character set support to/from Unicode
05:04:09 <zzo38> They say they do, but actually they are wrong
05:05:33 <adu> zzo38: like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blissymbols ?
05:05:51 <pikhq> zzo38: True, there are a handful that are ommitted.
05:06:39 <zzo38> adu: I don't mean stuff like that, but yes that too
05:07:24 <zzo38> I invented UTCE (Unified Terminal Character Encoding) which is a different character set; it isn't meant for typesetting.
05:07:39 <zzo38> For typesetting, stuff like TeX/METAFONT is work better
05:07:47 <adu> zzo38: I once spent a few weeks making 16x16 bitmap glyphs for CJK Extension D
05:08:09 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/utce
05:08:15 <adu> or maybe it was Extension B
05:08:22 <pikhq> As far as I'm aware Unicode mostly focuses on charsets that are actually used in communication between multiple computer systems, which does leave a few by the wayside.
05:08:34 <zzo38> (This document is not complete)
05:08:40 <pikhq> Most notably PETSCII.
05:09:13 <zzo38> UTCE does include PETSCII.
05:12:56 <zzo38> I also included information about UTCE fonts (which don't currently exists as far as I know)
05:13:15 <adu> I personally think that "varint" would have made a better encoding than UTF8
05:13:47 <zzo38> Do you mean like MIDI VLQ? I wrote a program that can convert between them.
05:14:02 <zzo38> (However, VLQ is not compatible with Principle of Extended ASCII)
05:14:13 <adu> https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/encoding
05:14:25 <adu> https://golang.org/pkg/encoding/binary/#Varint
05:15:29 <adu> https://www.npmjs.com/package/varint
05:15:41 <pikhq> That fails the property that no valid encoding is a substring of another.
05:16:13 <pikhq> Which is e.g. necessary for a huge body of Unicode-naive code to work.
05:16:52 <pikhq> And yes, as zzo38 mentions it violates the "Principle of Extended ASCII", as normal ASCII characters can appear in the encoding of other characters.
05:17:21 <pikhq> The fact that they *can't* is highly important to UTF-8 replacing ASCII.
05:17:34 <pikhq> i.e. highly important to *anybody* actually adopting it.
05:17:47 <pikhq> And indeed, the whole point of UTF-8.
05:18:10 <adu> I understand the requirements and benefits of UTF-8
05:18:33 <pikhq> Then why do you think an encoding that fails to meet its design requirements would be better?
05:18:41 <zzo38> Many program I write are meant to work only with ASCII. However, sometimes in comments or possibly in string literals you can use any characters that are compatible with Principle of Extended ASCII, so it will also be compatible with UTF-8 encoded text in the comments.
05:18:45 <pikhq> Failing to meet its design requirements would seem to be *worse*.
05:18:53 <adu> but while (char < 0) char = read(); has a certain beauty to it
05:19:32 <pikhq> zzo38: Which is really how a lot of programs work. :)
05:20:02 <adu> I'm going to write a varint-based OS, you'll see
05:20:21 <adu> it'll be great
05:21:15 <zzo38> (Sometimes my programs can support other encodings in addition to plain ASCII; which ones depends on the program and what it is going to do.)
05:22:08 <adu> I once wrote a few super-optimized functions in x86-64 asm using sse and the like to implement strchr, and converting to and from UTF8 and varint-based text
05:24:56 <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, hexchat won't let me use a list of words to highlight longer than 279 characters
05:28:55 <adu> hppavilion[1]: so whats new?
05:31:27 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I know
05:33:14 <\oren\> He's gonna meet Viktor Orban soon!
05:33:51 <\oren\> if all the fascists team up, surely there will be great peace in our time lol
05:35:30 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I bought a refrigerator
05:37:31 <hppavilion[1]> What was that pikhq? Certainly nat zee standard salute to Hitler!
05:38:27 * izalove swats hppavilion[1] for his terrible joke -------###
05:39:02 <pikhq> Nein, nein! That is the salute to mein Führer! MAGA! Heil Drumpf!
05:39:28 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: But it's OK, because HE'S doing it for 'murica
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05:55:26 <zzo38> This computer golf you can't select match play with one player
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08:01:19 <\oren\> what the heck are "tennis shoes"?!
08:03:52 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Usually tied shoes you'd walk in over a distance or run if you aren't too hardcore, if you weren't wearing slip-on shoes like I always do
08:04:16 <\oren\> oh... wikipedia ways they're what canadians call runners
08:05:08 <\oren\> also known as running shoes
08:10:12 <\oren\> ok TIL running shoes are called tennis shoes in america, trainers in britan, gym shoes in south africa, and rubber shoes in the philippines
08:10:35 <\oren\> in other words noone in the anglosphere can agree on what to call them
08:10:40 <shachaf> america is a big place hth
08:11:04 <\oren\> shachaf: do you call them something else too?
08:11:18 <myname> shachaf: a big place that elected trump hth
08:13:06 <myname> size does not imply sanity
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08:42:20 <izalove> how the fuck do i umount a broken nfs share
08:42:35 <izalove> why is every problem so stupidly hard to solve with nfs
08:42:56 <izalove> every time it's a coin toss
09:22:32 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4oiolXCp4
09:27:33 <\oren\> aparently somone made a super bad rap song about presedint turmp
09:33:15 <myname> besides that it wouldn't ruin a think. at most, it would be more hilarious
09:40:54 <\oren\> I mapped my cockslap button as another ctrl
09:42:22 <izalove> izabera is an anagram of i a zebra
09:43:16 <myname> torchwood is an anagram of doctor who
09:44:20 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/I3xJ8RzSxIM?t=25m58s
09:50:18 <myname> what the hell is "vocal darkwave"
10:01:44 <int-e> I'm assuming some kind of music, perhaps with singing or chanting. :P
10:03:11 <int-e> Actually music categories should be perfectly on topic here... but I have almost no clue about them.
10:04:58 <izalove> http://i.imgur.com/iH4ukhP.gif hppavilion[1]
10:08:55 <int-e> I remember an anecdote (possibly a joke) about this, some phone survey about music... it had all those finely grained categories (that the interviewee was blissfully unaware of) and finally it asked whether they'd like "classical music"... prompting the interviewee to ask which period they're talking about and so on.
10:09:29 <int-e> (no source unfortunately, it was "on the internet" somewhere and I guess more than a decade ago)
10:16:50 <myname> how about http://masterbootrecord.bandcamp.com/album/c-chkdsk-f
10:24:27 <hppavilion[1]> Wiktionary (until I edited just now) only listed /θæŋks/ as a pronunciation of "thanks"
10:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> I added /ðæŋks/ as an alternative because I'm /pretty/ sure my dialect does it that way (at least, I think that *I* do), but now I'm trying to figure out if that's real or if it's all in my head
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11:20:38 <shachaf> fizzie: pft, still playing tis-100?
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11:34:33 <fizzie> shachaf: I don't do much buying of games, and I needed to do *something* for the badge thing.
11:35:08 <fizzie> shachaf: Anyway, I'm not listening to Steam-related comments from someone who friends me and then keeps their profile private.
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11:45:01 <int-e> hmm, ominous. "the badge thing"
11:46:56 <int-e> it's almost as if people care about steam levels
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12:00:37 <shachaf> I only ran Steam now to play this Shenzhen thing.
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12:09:00 <shachaf> fizzie: Is there a way to keep it private in general but not for you?
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12:10:01 <fizzie> shachaf: I have no idea. Maybe there's not, in which case that's reasonable.
12:10:17 <fizzie> shachaf: I just assumed you had it generally non-private for your real friends.
12:10:23 <fizzie> shachaf: That seemed like the reasonable assumption.
12:10:40 <fizzie> int-e: I have this thing when it comes to numbers I can increment.
12:12:05 <shachaf> fizzie: As far as I can tell "private" is one user-wise setting.
12:12:22 <shachaf> If you know how to make it world-private and fizzie-readable I'll do that.
12:16:47 <fizzie> Okay, as far as I can tell, it's just a three-state "private / friends-only / world-readable" toggle. That's fine, then.
12:16:50 <fizzie> As for Shenzhen, I had a look at the videos, but it seemed maybe a little too much like more of the same.
12:17:22 <fizzie> Maybe if they put it in a bundle some day.
12:17:36 <fizzie> (They have TIS-100 in the current bundle.)
12:18:00 <fizzie> (And Infinifactory as well.)
12:21:08 <pledis> i want to have a gf and play tis-100 wit her
12:21:52 <shachaf> fizzie: OK, I downgraded everything to the middle option.
12:23:09 <int-e> fizzie: how about http://foldr.com/
12:23:14 <fizzie> shachaf: Thank you. I feel all appreciated now.
12:23:29 <fizzie> int-e: That was a bad thing you did.
12:23:32 <int-e> (I didn't find any of the more classical "how to keep an idiot busy for hours" pages that had a counter :-/)
12:24:14 <fizzie> I think I've seen a simpler one, with a button and a counter.
12:24:33 <int-e> I like TIS' simplicity... Zhenzhen looked like it combined too many ideas to me, kind of overloaded.
12:26:14 <wob_jonas> int-e: http://dawn.royalcomp.hu/~raas/lc.html -- even simpler, no button, just load the page and reload it, counter increases
12:27:21 <fizzie> Googling found some collaborative efforts (themostclickedbutton.com, clickthatbutton.com) but they were pretty horrible. I think I saw one that was a little more austere.
12:27:21 <shachaf> Did fizzie ever finish defeating the the hydra?
12:27:35 <shachaf> fizzie: are you allowed to use "Googling" as a verb like that
12:27:51 <fizzie> Only when not speaking in a professional capacity, I guess.
12:29:58 <wob_jonas> oh, so Fidel Castro died? That's why people were talking about that stuff!
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12:35:17 <fizzie> int-e: Regarding foldr.com, I lost interest when I realized I can just write for (i = 0; i < N; i++) f(document.getElementsByTagName('a')[0]);.
12:37:15 <Jafet> clearly, googling is just whatever it is that googlers do
12:37:36 <int-e> (actually a reaction to fizzie)
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14:25:44 <quintopia> would you rather be a person past-you would like or future-you would like?
14:27:06 <izalove> turns out you'll develop a fetish for pedophiles in the future
14:27:44 <boily> izellove. that's disturbing.
14:38:26 <quintopia> boily: what would past-you dislike about you?
14:39:32 <boily> not enough physical exercise, for one...
14:52:33 <quintopia> boily: what would past-you dislike about you that you also dislike the alternative about him
14:53:03 <boily> can you rephrase the question?
14:54:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50401&oldid=50389 * Slnetaiga * (+11) Added STOD
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14:57:34 <quintopia> what would you get in an argument with past-you about?
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15:03:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[STOD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50402 * Slnetaiga * (+832) Initial
15:05:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[STOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50403&oldid=50402 * Slnetaiga * (+57)
15:07:24 <boily> "get your shit together", I guess.
15:07:33 <boily> present-me to past-me.
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15:25:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50404&oldid=50366 * Slnetaiga * (+11)
15:26:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[STOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50405&oldid=50403 * Slnetaiga * (+33)
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19:08:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Incident]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50406&oldid=50358 * Oerjan * (+2002) /* O(log n) version */ new section
19:21:15 <shachaf> "a real number is given by an algorithm that, given a positive integer n, returns an integer x(n), in such a way that |m x(n) - n x(m)| < m + n for each m and n."
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19:32:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[STOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50407&oldid=50405 * Keymaker * (+115) Added a quine I made.
19:33:47 <Perenelle> http://imgur.com/a/bxiQ8 solve this or smthn
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20:14:50 <boily> Fidel Castro is dead!??!?!??!!!?????
20:16:21 <wob_jonas> (I mentioned it on this channel yesterday.)
20:17:13 <boily> I appear to not have been there when you mentioned it.
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20:22:22 <boily> HELLoen. HelloKoen? ALKôen? LKelloen? LKoellon?
20:23:11 <boily> fungot: how would you porthello him?
20:23:11 <fungot> boily: only real carnivores among the captains of the grass rose up the endless stairway, one of the lake, beneath the stars, where his eye sockets, yet impervious to gravity? he invites the very devil, a devil whose name suggests that he had picked up the food, not what's behind.' ' o no, my child--i should say miladi? whatever is inside it.
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20:36:57 <fungot> Zarutian: try the fall-back end-run play against ghosts. like other greek gods, by dr. ray stantz: hey, where she teaches her apprentices the enigmatic skills of occultism. despite her many years, during which time he received it, it's the humidity.
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20:37:47 <fungot> Zarutian: a good idea. he is married to mehut, a mane like a scythe. the dark water boiled, and some with fringe of red wine, to have invented, among their kind, they prayed at the age of 58, in ages past and imbued with a wand of wishing.
20:38:19 * Zarutian is getting this from an the Sims style vocal generator
20:38:41 <fungot> Zarutian: death is just a computer key, followed by a prominent beaked front which jutted out over the edge. one deep breath. " with his claws and poison their unwary victims as well, and grasped a stout staff, and shiny just as it came to the bones. they do no harm, they were, as he returned to the galaxy has a strange attraction and is certainly not entertaining, being in fact very uninteresting except as a one-eyed wise old
20:39:05 <fungot> Zarutian: you swallowed the fortune cookie is the patron of merchants and sailors. manannan had a drawstring. he cocked his gun and placed it beside him. he is endowed with not-inconsiderable sexual prowess which he directs towards countryside nymphs.
20:40:33 <Zarutian> fungot: forty two past thursday
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21:42:08 <FireFly> <boily> fungot: how would you porthello him? ← what about 'castrello'?
21:42:08 <fungot> FireFly: your dog back to the same tune, by dodie smith).
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21:48:29 <\oren\> now to see whether the resulting ttf is even close to being valid
21:50:31 <\oren\> errors errors everywhere
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22:38:18 <HackEgo> fat//Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, salt, and pizza.
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22:38:58 <boily> no no no no, the four groups are represented by sugar, fat, coffee and alcohol.
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22:50:55 <HackEgo> ghost//A ghost is an unintelligent undead, similar to the skeleton but harder to create, because it's lacking the rest of the body.
22:51:15 <boily> . o O ( are zombies edible? )
22:51:30 * moony successfully made a Discord port of otherbot
22:51:49 <Zarutian> boily: here, have some rotten flesh newling harvested from an Kraftminer world
22:52:21 <boily> mhelloony, Bowserinatellor, Zarutellon, APHic.
22:52:51 <boily> Zarutian: cured meat tastes good, especially on tostas with salmorejo ^^
22:54:05 <moony> APic, true, discord is not the best, my main goal was to get better as JS. otherbot's framework isnt very flexable. so i had to write the discord half from scratch
22:54:44 <moony> i still do USE discord tho :P
22:54:47 <moony> its a OK chat system
22:56:08 <Zarutian> slack? discord? what is wrong with irc or jabber?
22:56:21 <APic> PSYC is nice, too.
22:56:34 <moony> its just discord has free voicechat :P
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22:58:25 <Zarutian> oh, like I want to hear badly pronounced english? (The Americans do not sound anything like Americans, which was how they sounded in movies. That pronounciation has been backnamed 'Intercontinential english' for some reason)
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23:27:50 <boily> Zarutian: my badly pronounced English has nothing to do with American.
23:29:10 <Zarutian> boily: which is part of my point. An promil so to speak
23:29:46 <boily> what's an "an promil"?
23:31:54 <Zarutian> an percentage of percentage. You know like the small amount of the military (any) that is extremely competent
23:34:49 <boily> “Anpromil. Ask your doctor if Anpromil is right for you. Side effects may include military competency. ♪ Anpromil ♪”
23:36:55 <Zarutian> „Good news everyone! I have invented an unexhaustable power source! Its fuel is incredulity that it works.“
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23:41:22 <boily> your quotes are very Icelandicish.
23:41:28 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
23:42:51 <boily> `` sed -i 's/\)/, Icelandic „íðdegis“)/' wisdom/fternooner
23:42:52 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 34: Unmatched ) or \)
23:43:02 <boily> `` sed -i 's/\)/, Icelandic „íðdegis“\)/' wisdom/fternooner
23:43:03 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 35: Unmatched ) or \)
23:43:13 <boily> maudite expression de mes deux.
23:43:41 <boily> `learn fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
23:43:44 <HackEgo> Relearned 'fternooner': fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
23:44:06 <shachaf> boily: you should slwd twh
23:44:44 <boily> Zarutian: ID and semester???
23:45:03 <boily> hellochaf. I know, I just have a psychological aversion to it.
23:45:12 <Zarutian> boily: nope, that cigar is in another galaxy by far
23:45:58 <shachaf> i,i `mkx bin/sed//echo boily: use slwd
23:46:14 <HackEgo> i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
23:46:28 <HackEgo> 9279:2016-10-14 <oerjän> learn i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying". \ 9278:2016-10-14 <oerjän> learn i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and want to distract myself by saying". \ 9277:2016-10-14 <oerjän> learn i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and want to distract
23:48:40 <myname> discord has free voice chats? i knew there was a mayor disadvantage. just picture all these people who actually want you to use that, ugh
23:49:36 <Zarutian> I would use some sort of voice reencoder so it would sound like badly tuned bagpipes farting the words out
23:49:59 <myname> i hate voice chats so much
23:50:37 <myname> they combine the disadvantages of chat with the disadvantages of face tp face communication
23:50:49 <Zarutian> myname: there is always with an open mic that is as cheap as the 'recycled' toilet paper your mother buys
23:52:34 <Zarutian> http://9front.org/img/syntaxhighlighting.jpg