←2017-01-04 2017-01-05 2017-01-06→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:14:13 <fizzie> @metar EFIV
00:14:14 <lambdabot> EFIV 042350Z AUTO 22008KT 9999 -SHSN BKN020 OVC053 M24/M27 Q1021
00:14:16 <fizzie> Hm, no colder.
00:14:38 <shachaf> @metar KSEA
00:14:38 <fizzie> @metar EFET
00:14:38 <lambdabot> KSEA 042353Z 03011KT 10SM CLR 02/M10 A3028 RMK AO2 SLP264 T00171100 10022 21022 53009
00:14:38 <lambdabot> EFET 042350Z AUTO 00000KT CAVOK M34/M38 Q1022
00:14:43 <fizzie> Well, that's more like it.
00:15:01 <shachaf> Is "it" absolute 0?
00:18:15 <oerjan> `icao EFET
00:18:21 <HackEgo> Enontekio (ENF, EFET)
00:25:10 <fizzie> That translates literally to "unclemaker".
00:26:14 <oerjan> that seems like a strange name for a place.
00:26:42 <fizzie> The etymology is probably something completely different in reality, but that's what it sounds like.
00:26:45 * oerjan gets flashback to the south park movie.
00:27:10 <fizzie> I did also approximate "tekiö" -> "tekijä".
00:27:26 <oerjan> (the first one, in case they made more)
00:27:54 <boily> aren't like "o" and "ö" completely different vowels?
00:28:00 <fizzie> Fun fact: Finnish disambiguates between a mother's brother (eno) and a father's brother (setä), while English calls both uncles.
00:28:20 <oerjan> `icao ENRO
00:28:21 <fizzie> boily: Yes, but airports.dat doesn't deal with non-ASCII characters. The place is actually Enontekiö.
00:28:23 <HackEgo> Roros (RRS, ENRO)
00:28:33 <oerjan> figures.
00:28:39 <oerjan> (that's actually Røros)
00:29:01 <fizzie> I was going to ask if it was Rorøs.
00:29:47 <oerjan> no. that's a bit less likely, -os means end of river, essentially.
00:29:50 <fizzie> I've been to Å once.
00:30:34 <oerjan> i think i may have been at least twice.
00:30:53 <oerjan> (it's ancestor country.)
00:30:54 <fizzie> I think you've got more than one of them, though.
00:31:10 <oerjan> that too, but i don't recall being to more than one.
00:31:17 <fizzie> `icao ENRS
00:31:20 <HackEgo> Røst Airport (RET, ENRS)
00:31:29 <oerjan> wat
00:31:30 <fizzie> That's got them øs.
00:31:32 <fizzie> Yeah, IDGI.
00:31:45 <fizzie> Well, it's crowdsourced data, I believe.
00:32:03 <oerjan> i don't _think_ i've been to Røst, it's a bit of a ferry jump or something.
00:32:16 <oerjan> (from Å)
00:32:52 <fizzie> That sounds like it's the same Å, then.
00:32:53 <oerjan> while Å is on the contiguous lofoten road.
00:33:24 <oerjan> (it wasn't yet contiguous when i grew up, i think.)
00:33:49 <fizzie> We took the ferry from Å (or nearabouts) to Værøya, but not to Røst.
00:35:25 <oerjan> fizzie: swedish also distinguishes the uncles, while norwegian doesn't.
00:35:41 <oerjan> (also aunts)
00:36:17 <boily> an «oncle» is an «oncle». different words are confusing hth
00:36:46 <oerjan> farbror and morbror aren't very confusing, it's obvious even to norwegians what they mean.
00:37:09 <oerjan> but we just use "onkel" ourselves.
00:37:51 <oerjan> and "tante", we have a bit of french borrowing there.
00:39:59 <boily> is it also /tãt/, or was it norwegianified?
00:40:49 <oerjan> and "nevø" and "niese", and "kusine" (female only)
00:41:13 <olsner> boily: that pronunciation would be spelled tåt or something
00:41:28 <olsner> swedish has tant meaning just old lady, no auntiness implied
00:42:02 <fizzie> oerjan: So what's a male cousin then?
00:42:41 <oerjan> fizzie: "fetter". although in practice we often use the gender neutral "søskenbarn".
00:42:56 <fizzie> "Childish" Finnish speech can use "täti" (aunt) for non-family-member old ladies as well.
00:43:21 <oerjan> (that one's apparently a german borrowing)
00:43:26 <fizzie> Finnish "serkku" is just a cousin of any gender.
00:43:50 <shachaf> Finnish is pretty good.
00:43:54 <oerjan> oh and all of these refer to _only_ second cousins no removal
00:43:58 <oerjan> er
00:44:00 <oerjan> *first
00:44:16 <shachaf> I should get my Finnish passport renewed but it's embarrassing to go to the consulate and not speak any Finnish.
00:44:19 <fizzie> Same thing. Although we've got "pikkuserkku" for a second cousin.
00:44:26 <oerjan> second cousins etc. are "tremenning", "firmenning", ...
00:45:31 <fizzie> There's a bunch of entirely obsolete Finnish words for lesser cousins that I don't know of.
00:45:33 <oerjan> boily: it's norwegianified. stupid wiktionary lacks the ipa.
00:45:49 <oerjan> but all are the "obvious" sound for norwegian.
00:46:51 <oerjan> oh and there's the prefix "grand-" which can be applied to onkel, tante, nevø or niese to add a level.
00:47:48 <shachaf> grand-oerjan
00:48:44 <oerjan> but _not_ to parents or children to get the english grand-, for the first the prefix is "beste-" _or_ you can simply compose "far" and "mor".
00:49:54 <oerjan> (and composition works for children as well.)
00:50:12 <fizzie> I think Swedish does the farfar/farmor/morfar/mormor thing as well.
00:50:29 <fizzie> Can you do more than two levels?
00:50:44 <oerjan> and then there's "olde-", for the level above "beste-", which works in both directions. and then you add as many "tipp-" as you want to _that_.
00:51:21 <oerjan> so grandfather's grandfather can be "tippoldefar".
00:52:01 <oerjan> to be specific, i think you need to start using genitive, like "farfars farfar" or the like.
00:52:13 <oerjan> *more specific
00:52:33 <fizzie> Finnish just repeats the same prefix, so father -> isä, grandfather -> isoisä, great-grandfather -> isoisoisä, and so on.
00:53:03 <oerjan> how logical.
00:53:13 <oerjan> iso standard
00:53:19 <fizzie> I don't know if "isoisoisoisä" would really be considered acceptable any more, though.
00:54:24 <fizzie> ("esi-isä" would be any (male) ancestor.)
00:55:57 <oerjan> that would be "stamfar", i guess
00:57:24 <oerjan> although that may sort of imply the first common ancestor of a tribe. not that norway has tribes any more, generally.
00:58:29 <oerjan> ("stamme" = "tribe", in some usages. (also means trunk of a tree))
00:59:15 <fizzie> I was expecting something vaguely exponential, but Google says isä -> 7460000 results, isoisä -> 512000, isoisoisä -> 6050, iso^3isä -> 2570, iso^4isä -> 774, iso^5isä -> 394, iso^6isä -> 279, iso^7isä -> 10, iso^8isä -> 4, iso^9isä -> 4, iso^10isä -> 2, iso^11isä -> 2, iso^12isä -> 2, iso^13isä -> 1, iso^14isä -> 0.
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01:01:41 <oerjan> > map logBase (1/2) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
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01:01:45 <lambdabot> error:
01:01:45 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Integer] -> t’
01:01:45 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘[a0 -> a0]’
01:02:01 <oerjan> > map (logBase (1/2)) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:02:06 <lambdabot> [-22.830744199804688,-18.96578428466209,-12.56271942704932,-11.3275526440812...
01:02:09 <oerjan> argh
01:02:37 <oerjan> > map (logBase 2) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:02:40 <lambdabot> [22.830744,18.965784,12.562719,11.327553,9.5961895,8.622051,8.124122,3.32192...
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01:03:55 <oerjan> > map ((/13).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:03:57 <lambdabot> [7.692308e-2,6.390096e-2,4.2327266e-2,3.816565e-2,3.233221e-2,2.9050073e-2,2...
01:04:05 <oerjan> *sigh*
01:04:18 <oerjan> oh
01:04:27 <oerjan> > map ((*13).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:04:30 <lambdabot> [13.0,10.799262,7.153308,6.449995,5.4641438,4.9094625,4.6259365,1.8915312,1....
01:04:46 <Zarutian> and that is why you do not use floats with fixed sized mantissa and exponent
01:05:07 <oerjan> what
01:05:51 <Zarutian> imprecision at certain points a long the number line
01:06:02 <Zarutian> s/a long/along/
01:06:34 <oerjan> > concatMap (printf("%.2f ").(*(13::Float)).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:06:37 <lambdabot> error:
01:06:37 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M723232078194...
01:06:37 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved.
01:06:41 <oerjan> ARGH
01:06:48 <oerjan> > concatMap (printf("%.2f ").(*(13::Float)).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: String
01:06:52 <lambdabot> "13.00 10.80 7.15 6.45 5.46 4.91 4.63 1.89 1.14 1.14 0.57 0.57 0.57 0.00 "
01:07:35 <oerjan> ok, that is not very linear.
01:10:30 <fizzie> http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=lc&chs=600x300&chd=t:7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1&chds=a&chfd=0,x,0,20*log(x)
01:10:44 <fizzie> It took me too long to get that out.
01:11:03 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, I was hoping for a fizzie-style ASCII art histogram.
01:12:23 <fizzie> I've been thinking of writing a script to do plotting-related activities, with sensible heuristics for input and various output formats, including "Unicode block drawing for | sprunge".
01:13:07 <oerjan> dwimunge
01:13:31 <oerjan> (hm what does sprunge mean, anyway)
01:13:47 <shachaf> scow prunge hth
01:13:55 <shachaf> scow = scientific cow
01:14:06 <oerjan> funny, wiktionary's only definition for that is nynorsk
01:15:05 <shachaf> https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Det_hev_ei_rose_sprunge
01:15:53 <oerjan> i considered learning that one in the original german. but i found out it had more weird theology than i like.
01:16:07 <oerjan> (for this christmas)
01:16:22 <shachaf> is there an example of nonweird theology
01:16:31 <oerjan> in principle not
01:16:56 <oerjan> but one is sort of acclimatized to the usual carol stuff
01:17:43 <oerjan> (Es ist ein Ros entsprungen, fwiw)
01:17:59 <oerjan> *ein' Ros'
01:18:36 <int-e> That text is weird even to me.
01:19:18 <int-e> The first line invites a pun though, "Es ist ein Ross entsprungen"
01:22:44 * boily feels like he should mapole int-e, but doesn't understand German whatsoever
01:23:01 <oerjan> ♫ Det hev ein kvalross sprunge... ♫
01:23:36 <oerjan> (i think the -ross in kvalross (walrus) may be cognate to de:Ross, but it's no longer used for horse in norwegian.)
01:23:56 <shachaf> int-e: what build system should i use twh
01:24:35 <int-e> boily: Ros' = Rose = rose; Ross = horse (somewhat old fashioned)
01:24:44 <int-e> shachaf: Lego (tm)
01:25:05 <oerjan> hm and en:horse is cognate as well, isn't it
01:25:30 <int-e> boily: but the point is that "entspringen" is not uncommon for running away, whereas using it for plants is quite unusual.
01:26:51 <int-e> shachaf: it's something that I don't think about much; for simple things I tend to write Makefiles, and I tend not to start big projects so I stick with whatever is already in place.
01:27:32 <int-e> And for pure Haskell projects, cabal is still the obvious choice I think.
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01:31:44 <shachaf> int-e: In my opinion it's ridiculous that every language thinks it needs to have its own build system and packaging system and package repository and everything.
01:31:50 <shachaf> There's no good reason for it.
01:32:45 <shachaf> Haskell and Cabal/Hackage, Rust and Cargo/Crates, Python and pip/easy_install/pypi/whatever, Ruby and gems, ...
01:32:48 <shachaf> It's such a mess.
01:32:50 <int-e> "The origin of the word walrus is thought by J.R.R. Tolkien[5] to derive from a Germanic language, and it has been attributed largely to either the Dutch language or Old Norse. Its first part is thought to derive from a word such as Dutch walvis 'whale'. Its second part has also been hypothesized to come from the Old Norse word for 'horse'.[6]"
01:33:43 <shachaf> Each of them has its own dependency management and all those things.
01:33:49 <int-e> shachaf: agreed but apparently it's something that people enjoy doing :P
01:33:58 <int-e> And obviously none of them are perfect.
01:34:01 <shachaf> What if you want to depend on a cross-language library, like a protobuf file?
01:34:10 <shachaf> You can't use any of these things effectively.
01:34:26 <FireFly> "From Old Norse hrosshvalr ‎(“horse-whale”)" hmm, I wonder why we inverted it...
01:34:32 <FireFly> hrosshvalr → valross
01:35:21 <int-e> And even the general purpose build systems are a mess... make doesn't handle configuration so there's autoconf+automake; then there's cmake, something awful called conscript, and I'm sure several dozen others.
01:37:12 <int-e> shachaf: anyway I see a problem but basically I see no way to solve it; all that can easily be accomplished is https://xkcd.com/927/
01:37:25 <shachaf> Well, hardly anyone is even trying.
01:38:43 <shachaf> Almost all of these systems are low-level and not declarative. It's scow.
01:39:18 <int-e> Make is declarative enough to actually get things done in a more or less modular fashion
01:40:22 <int-e> And in any case it's a hard problem if you want to cover all use cases. It's very easy to cover just what you need. Hence the proliferation of half-baked systems, I think.
01:40:43 <shachaf> make is declarative? In what sense?
01:40:56 <shachaf> You write out shell commands for every target!
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01:42:34 <int-e> The dependencies are declarative. You have pattern rules to describe how to build certain subparts. Order doesn't matter much...
01:46:55 <Zarutian> doesnt make and such systems violate the DRY principle (dont repeat yourself)?
01:49:12 <int-e> well, what is it that you think you're repeating?
01:53:38 <Zarutian> which modules depended on which submodules
01:53:53 <Zarutian> basically the dependency graph
01:54:12 <int-e> yeah a lot of effort goes into generating the obvious dependencies automatically, as a rule
02:16:42 <alercah> it's a me
02:16:44 <alercah> I am back
02:17:12 <boily> alercahello!
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02:25:55 <alercah> au revoily I guess
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02:33:36 <int-e> `grwp redundan
02:34:05 <HackEgo> dereduntantation:Dereduntantation is the process of making things less redundant. It is typically done with either regexes or regular expressions. \ redundancy:Since redundancy exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it. \ Binary file reflection matches
02:34:06 <int-e> fungot: are you faster than HackEgo?
02:34:07 <fungot> int-e: madam president, we are creating and financing software systems that allow dictatorial regimes and, increasingly, workers in precarious or atypical employment or workers with low salaries. against this background, it is not in a position really to define the most controversial mechanisms introduced by the fascist regime in power in burundi today. if the commission is not taking the kind of consensus that the mai should n
02:35:53 <Jafet> if language implementers provided tools to list module dependencies for use in makefiles, instead of proliferating new build systems
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02:36:27 <Jafet> as it is, fungot, every build system is its own dictatorial regime
02:36:27 <fungot> Jafet: we can only encourage the dutch presidency to be more easily mastered in future. in this world.
02:37:51 <int-e> fungot: you want them to be pushovers?
02:37:52 <fungot> int-e: mr president, it is absolutely essential for the smooth development of the media to participate in management board meetings provided that the text of the common cause. the commission's proposal more attractive to a larger number than 38 but there comes a time within a european framework to define the new instruments i welcome your offer of cooperation with a view to promoting cooperation between universities with due re
02:38:39 <int-e> spect.
02:39:10 <Jafet> endgram
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03:12:52 <pikhq> @metar KFLY
03:12:53 <lambdabot> KFLY 050255Z AUTO 35018G24KT 10SM OVC021 M16/M21 A2975 RMK AO2 T11591209
03:13:14 <shachaf> `icao KFLY
03:13:23 <pikhq> :P
03:13:32 <HackEgo> No output.
03:14:06 <pikhq> Just before we get 4 to 7 inches (10 to 18 cm) of snow. Yay.
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11:47:46 <boily> `wisdom
11:47:58 <HackEgo> plan9//Plan9 is the precursor to Dante's Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language.
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12:09:19 <boily> `? netsplit
12:09:23 <HackEgo> netsplit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:11:34 <b_jonas> Oh! They made an artifact-based convoke in the new set. Brilliant! That ought to be not as broken as affinity, but it still lets you use your Darksteel Relics.
12:12:54 <b_jonas> (M:tG)
12:18:42 <boily> b_jellonas. convoking artifacts is a little broken already. free mana for nothing, along with colourless lands...
12:20:33 <boily> nothing like being on the receiving end of an eldrazi rush.
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12:31:12 <b_jonas> boily: sure, but it won't be as broken as affinity.
12:31:32 <b_jonas> maybe it's only as broken as fast elves
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14:38:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50651&oldid=50595 * BeHuman * (+391)
14:48:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50652&oldid=50651 * BeHuman * (+0) /* Functions examples */
14:49:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50653&oldid=50652 * BeHuman * (+16) /* Operators */
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15:55:07 <rdococ> so many fucks
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16:56:16 <izabera> yo
16:56:20 <izabera> i need help with make
16:56:23 <izabera> i'll never learn it
16:56:30 <izabera> https://arin.ga/4M724y/raw
16:56:45 <izabera> when i type make without arguments, i expect it to run the rules for memmon.so and memmon
16:56:51 <izabera> but it only runs the one for memmon
16:56:54 <izabera> why that?
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16:59:20 <izabera> plz halp ;-;
16:59:26 <izabera> make is too esoteric for me
16:59:44 <ais523> izabera: make runs the first rule in the file, if given no arguments
16:59:51 <izabera> WHAT
16:59:54 <izabera> not all?
16:59:58 <ais523> so it's usual to have the first rule be something like «all: memmon memmon.so»
17:00:16 <izabera> THANK YOU
17:00:19 <ais523> (if you want bulding everything to be the default)
17:01:02 <izabera> where is this in the manual?!
17:01:11 <izabera> please don't say something like line 3
17:01:24 <ais523> 9.2, second paragraph :-)
17:02:09 <ais523> (that's not a joke, I have the manual open to that page right now in order to look up what the section number is)
17:02:33 <izabera> thank you for your help
17:03:56 <oerjan> ais523: too honest to pretend you've memorized it? :P
17:04:03 <ais523> make's manual is one of those things where you'll probably end up missing details whether you read it cover to cover or not
17:04:10 <ais523> oerjan: that'd be amusing but not too plausilbe
17:04:12 <ais523> *plausible
17:05:46 <oerjan> i recall reading that von neumann could recite books from memory.
17:05:55 <izabera> who wants to try this memmon thing?
17:05:57 <oerjan> of course he wasn't a very plausible person.
17:06:11 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/memmon plz try it
17:09:34 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
17:09:37 <moonythedwarf> beep beep
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17:13:46 <oerjan> `learn The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
17:13:59 <HackEgo> Relearned 'markdown': The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
17:15:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hq9++fan * New user account
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17:16:42 <moonythedwarf> '? the
17:17:16 * oerjan whistles innocently
17:17:38 <moonythedwarf> `? the
17:17:42 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
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17:18:10 <moonythedwarf> :o the entry fir 'the' contains itself.
17:18:24 <moonythedwarf> its recursive
17:18:38 <oerjan> `? recursion
17:18:40 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
17:18:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50654&oldid=50648 * Hq9++fan * (+180) /* Introductions */
17:18:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50655&oldid=38760 * Hq9++fan * (+67) categorized
17:19:34 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: it is likely that it was created by someone using an old version of `learn at random.
17:19:42 <oerjan> `cwlprits the
17:19:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
17:20:04 <HackEgo> oerjän hppavilion[1̈] oren̈_ oerjän Rouj̈o
17:20:45 <moonythedwarf> oerjan, with you seeingly making other entrys like this, i suspected you would be involved. i was right
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17:21:09 <oerjan> only technically, i suspect.
17:21:12 -!- LiberalCarrot has left.
17:21:14 <oerjan> `dowt the
17:21:28 <HackEgo> 3524:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going through \x16trying\x16 to map entries that are being put in at the same time. \ 3571:2013-08-29 <oerjän> mv wisdom/the{,\' neverending work\'} \ 5997:2015-09-15 <oren̈_> le/rn the/the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 6805:2016-02-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo $RANDOM"
17:21:45 -!- augur has joined.
17:21:56 <oerjan> huh it was \oren\ and it used le/rn
17:22:09 <oerjan> `dowg the
17:22:18 <HackEgo> 6808:2016-02-10 <oerjän> undo 7476893e7fc3 \ 6805:2016-02-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo $RANDOM" > wisdom/the meaning of life \ 5997:2015-09-15 <oren̈_> le/rn the/the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 3571:2013-08-29 <oerjän> mv wisdom/the{,\' neverending work\'} \ 3524:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going t
17:22:54 <oerjan> all i did was clean up stuff
17:23:23 <moonythedwarf> `gwni taneb
17:23:40 <oerjan> also how can you possibly consider that to be my style, it breaks most of the rules of wisdom
17:23:45 <HackEgo> _46bit \ algebraic geometry \ automatic squirrel feeder \ bbc \ bdsm \ bogosort \ boxmodel \ chu space \ ci \ civilization \ costume \ cumin \ curry's paradox \ deniability \ denial \ dew \ d-module \ dragon \ ehird \ eliot \ eyebrow \ facebook \ fundamental theorem of taneb \ go \ grace period \ histogram \ it \ klein bottle \ lambek's lemma \ loc
17:23:59 <moonythedwarf> taneb is in ALL the things
17:24:09 <moonythedwarf> `? tachyon
17:24:12 <HackEgo> tachyon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:26:47 <Zarutian> `learn tachyon is a particle yet to be invented. Meta theorized to be a force carrier in thimotimoline molecules.
17:26:47 <oerjan> `learn The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
17:26:50 <oerjan> oops
17:27:08 <moonythedwarf> wow
17:27:13 <moonythedwarf> same millisecond
17:27:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'tachyon': The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
17:27:17 <HackEgo> Relearned 'tachyon': tachyon is a particle yet to be invented. Meta theorized to be a force carrier in thimotimoline molecules.
17:27:23 <oerjan> `revert
17:27:38 <oerjan> i claim priority on the principle that you misspelled thiotimoline hth
17:27:52 <HackEgo> Done.
17:28:01 <Zarutian> damn it! Wasnt prior enough ;-Þ
17:29:26 <moonythedwarf> `` gwni taneb > tanebEntries
17:29:40 <HackEgo> No output.
17:29:41 <moonythedwarf> `paste tanebEntries
17:29:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/tanebEntries
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17:29:56 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: you should pipe into paste hth
17:30:21 <moonythedwarf> 70 things contain taneb, and nice to know, thx
17:32:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:32:46 <moonythedwarf> `` echo "Hello, World" | paste
17:32:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.16387
17:33:03 <oerjan> there's also the `1 and `spam commands, of course.
17:36:42 <moonythedwarf> `l doesnt exist.
17:36:44 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l: not found
17:37:04 <oerjan> OKAY
17:37:19 <moonythedwarf> ? why the caps
17:37:20 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: your font is inferior
17:37:32 <moonythedwarf> wait
17:37:32 <oerjan> i'm with \oren\
17:37:34 <moonythedwarf> thats a 1
17:37:37 <moonythedwarf> `1
17:37:41 <HackEgo> 1/0:
17:37:50 <moonythedwarf> `1 -h
17:37:53 <HackEgo> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: -h: command not found
17:38:05 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: fonts that don't distinguish between 1,l,I are bad.
17:38:11 <moonythedwarf> ik
17:38:21 <moonythedwarf> it does shwo the diffrence (Fairly well actually) im just dumb
17:38:41 <moonythedwarf> font: Monospace 9
17:38:45 <moonythedwarf> anything better?
17:39:04 <\oren\> 1lI| O0 2Z
17:39:28 <moonythedwarf> yup, i see the diffrence: one l I | O zero two Z
17:41:01 <\oren\> `'‘’‛′‵
17:41:01 <oerjan> 3З 4Ч
17:41:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: '‘’‛′‵: not found
17:41:26 <moonythedwarf> yup, diffrence seen. except for the two 33
17:41:36 <moonythedwarf> or are you tricking me
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17:41:46 <moonythedwarf> hiovoid
17:41:47 <oerjan> heh
17:41:50 <oerjan> i'm not
17:41:56 <moonythedwarf> whats the diffrence?
17:41:58 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: one of them is a russian letter
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17:42:04 <moonythedwarf> FFS
17:42:07 <moonythedwarf> hicizero
17:42:09 <\oren\> `unicode З
17:42:16 <HackEgo> U+0417 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ZE \ UTF-8: d0 97 UTF-16BE: 0417 Decimal: &#1047; \ З (з) \ Lowercase: U+0437 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
17:42:43 <moonythedwarf> well this font is a good-OK font then
17:42:51 <moonythedwarf> just misses some spots
17:43:02 <moonythedwarf> *makes his own font where everything is a '1'*
17:43:11 <\oren\> IⅠІ
17:43:36 <moonythedwarf> diffrence seen, except the first and last letters are identical? *unicodes them*
17:43:53 <moonythedwarf> `1 unicode IⅠІ
17:44:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ UTF-8: 49 UTF-16BE: 0049 Decimal: &#73; \ I (i) \ Lowercase: U+0069 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+2160 ROMAN NUMERAL ONE \ UTF-8: e2 85 a0 UTF-16BE: 2160 Decimal: &#8544; \ Ⅰ (ⅰ) \ Lowercase: U+2170 \ Category: Nl (Number, Letter) \ Numeric value: 1 \ Bidi:
17:44:07 <moonythedwarf> `1
17:44:11 <HackEgo> 1/0:
17:44:13 <oerjan> oops
17:44:15 <\oren\> `spam
17:44:17 <HackEgo> 2/0:
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17:44:40 <oerjan> TOO LATE
17:44:40 <moonythedwarf> oerjan, ?
17:44:40 <oerjan> `2 unicode IⅠІ
17:44:41 <HackEgo> 2/2:L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <compat> 0049 \ \ U+0406 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER BYELORUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN I \ UTF-8: d0 86 UTF-16BE: 0406 Decimal: &#1030; \ І (і) \ Lowercase: U+0456 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \
17:45:04 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: `1 always uses a new command. you want `spam (which can also be abbreviated `n)
17:45:16 <\oren\> my font is the master font
17:45:39 <moonythedwarf> oh hey there is a tiny diffrence (few pixels are shaded on the cyrillic I)
17:45:45 <moonythedwarf> \oren\, font download? :P
17:45:56 <moonythedwarf> or its name?
17:45:58 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters.ttf
17:45:59 <oerjan> fortunately, `2 is nice for when you forget.
17:46:07 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
17:46:13 <\oren\> (demo page)
17:46:20 <moonythedwarf> oh that one
17:46:30 <moonythedwarf> *downloads (i've seen it before)
17:46:54 <moonythedwarf> what foldr do fonts go to on ubuntu linux
17:47:31 <\oren\> /usr/share/fonts I think
17:47:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hq9++fan * uploaded "[[File:Code-golf.png]]"
17:48:15 <\oren\> no link?
17:48:37 <oerjan> a separate roman numeral 1? YOU GO TOO FAR
17:49:36 <\oren\> oerjan: it has to be different so that the upper and lower bar connects to adjoining numerals
17:49:43 <oerjan> oh
17:50:53 <\oren\> ⅩⅩⅩⅠ
17:51:30 <\oren\> you could also use the Ⅺ and Ⅻ characters though
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17:52:04 <oerjan> i can't actually see any of them
17:52:31 <\oren\> oerjan: well, I mean unicode has characters for roman numbers 11 and 12
17:52:40 <oerjan> heh
17:53:09 <\oren\> meaning that you could do (X)(X)(X)(I) or (X)(X)(XI)
17:53:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50657&oldid=50655 * Hq9++fan * (+180)
17:53:59 <\oren\> I have no explanation for ⒈⒉⒊⒋⒌⒍⒎⒏⒐ though
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17:55:13 <\oren\> there's also lowercase roman numerals
17:55:18 <\oren\> ⅰⅱⅲⅳⅴⅵⅶⅷⅸⅹⅺⅻ
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18:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50658&oldid=50656 * Hq9++fan * (+12)
18:13:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unreadable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50659&oldid=47047 * Hq9++fan * (+19) there is no default MediaWiki font, it's a browser setting
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18:19:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50660&oldid=38723 * Hq9++fan * (+276) /* Possibly not qualifying */
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18:55:43 <rdococ> swear I had the same idea as https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bool at one point
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19:09:34 <rdococ> wonder if hppavilion[1] is still working on Peano
19:09:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
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19:16:00 <int-e> The Peano Player.
19:17:47 <rdococ> oh well, I guess I'll use a different name?
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19:19:24 <\oren\> idea: alternative-universe C. Specifically, from a universe where Konrad Zuse's Plankalkuel was the first to gain general use.
19:19:59 <int-e> Zuse also built up datatypes from bits.
19:25:13 <\oren\> `grwp univers
19:25:24 <rdococ> again, am I the only one who considers int-e to be a type?
19:25:38 <\oren\> I thought he was -2
19:25:38 <HackEgo> intellectual property:Intellectual property is either the plot of land where a university campus is or otherwise a property which gives something an intellectual air or appearance. \ pikachu:Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces. \ Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity,
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19:26:36 <rdococ> int-e x = 3e;
19:27:07 <\oren\> `perl -e 'int - exp 1'
19:27:10 <HackEgo> No output.
19:27:18 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int - exp 1'
19:27:19 <HackEgo> No output.
19:27:29 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int - exp(1)'
19:27:30 <HackEgo> No output.
19:27:34 <\oren\> rrgh
19:27:46 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int(- exp(1))'
19:27:47 <HackEgo> No output.
19:28:39 <\oren\> `perl 'print int(- exp(1))'
19:28:41 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "'print int(- exp(1))'": No such file or directory
19:28:48 <\oren\> `` perl -e'print int(- exp(1))'
19:28:50 <HackEgo> ​-2
19:28:55 <\oren\> FINALLY
19:29:01 <\oren\> `` perl -e'print int - exp 1'
19:29:03 <HackEgo> Warning: Use of "int" without parentheses is ambiguous at -e line 1. \ -2
19:29:16 <\oren\> int - e is -2
19:31:29 <rdococ> depends how you round it. could be -3.
19:35:13 <int-e> so much sp-e-culation.
19:36:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Help, WarDoq!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50661&oldid=43889 * Hq9++fan * (+23)
19:38:43 * rdococ is thinking som-e-thing dirty
19:39:52 <moonythedwarf> `le/rn moon/moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:39:54 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
19:40:24 <moonythedwarf> `le//rn moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:40:32 <HackEgo> Relearned 'moon': moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:42:33 <rdococ> melloo
19:42:40 <rdococ> melloon
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19:47:40 <rdococ> wonder if someone's already took up the idea of true as a function that takes two arguments and returns the first, and false as one that returns the second
19:49:12 <int-e> yes
19:49:27 <int-e> One name for that is Church encoding, for example.
19:49:40 <rdococ> I've heard that term before
19:50:05 <int-e> (But I would expect that it has been reinvented a couple of times.)
19:50:36 <rdococ> so what I'm doing with Peano is Church encoding.
19:55:06 <int-e> . o O ( Even after its acquisition by Oracle, there's nothing new under the Sun. )
19:56:43 <shachaf> new lawsuits hth
19:57:07 <int-e> I think the pun Trumps the facts.
19:57:32 <\oren\> http://www.fireflyspace.com/vehicles/firefly-a
19:57:41 <int-e> How's Java doing these days? Are people scrambling to get off Oracle's turf?
19:57:55 <\oren\> aerospike engine!
20:00:40 <int-e> meh, marketing... buzzing with superlatives
20:01:26 <int-e> "The all-carbon fiber design makes the structural mass supremely light, enabling the maximum payload capacity."
20:01:45 <int-e> Isn't carbon flammable... :P
20:02:14 <rdococ> . o O ( carbon flammable? that's a new one )
20:03:01 <int-e> inflammable if you prefer :P
20:03:52 <int-e> (But I'm mainly objecting to calling the composite carbon fiber/epoxy (typically?) composite just "carbon")
20:04:56 <int-e> "The results speak for themselves." - so when was the successful test flight?
20:06:06 <int-e> http://www.fireflyspace.com/news/ournews/full-mdc-test-success never got off the ground :-P
20:08:26 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: My microwave oven blew the fuse).
20:08:38 -!- nortti has joined.
20:08:50 <int-e> wow, http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/x-33/aerospik.htm is an eye sore
20:09:15 <int-e> (and the links are broken)
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20:13:38 <izabera> https://irssi.org/2017/01/05/irssi-1.0.0-released/
20:13:59 <ybden> They finally got out of beta
20:14:02 <ybden> And it's still terrible
20:14:07 <ybden> After all these years
20:14:45 <izabera> can't wait for 2.0
20:15:16 <int-e> hmm. terrible?
20:15:51 <int-e> it's not perfect... but nothing really is.
20:36:02 <\oren\> I'm running an irssi that I compiled myself
20:37:15 <\oren\> I guess I need to grab the new release and compile that
20:38:31 <\oren\> meh, those updates don't seem important
20:39:45 <\oren\> I'm also running a tmux I compiled myself because ubuntu doesn't update their repositories in a timely manner
20:42:20 * APic let his Machine compile v0.8.20 their(?)self too, and since 1.0.0 does not seem to be a Security-Release, i will not bother compiling that one right now
20:43:58 <nortti> just in case that was not a typo, 0.8.21 is the newest security release
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20:45:12 <\oren\> hais523
20:46:00 <ais523> wb me
20:47:30 <\oren\> I wonder how long the average OSS project takes to get to 1.0
20:48:04 <\oren\> 5 years?
20:51:29 <ais523> \oren\: C-INTERCAL retroactively changed its version numbering system so that the very first development version was effectively 1.0
20:52:06 <ais523> come to think of it, so did Firefox, and Linux (both of which dropped the major version number and bumped the minor up to a major, which would convert 0.1 to 1.0)
20:52:53 <APic> wb ais523
20:53:09 -!- APic has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah | Celebrate Mungday.
20:53:30 <ais523> why are there two spaces between "Esoteric" and "Programming"
20:53:39 <APic> No Idea.
20:53:52 <APic> I did not change this Part of the Topic. ☺
20:54:08 <int-e> could be my fault
20:55:25 <int-e> (because the output of /topic has a line break after "Esoteric" here)
20:56:08 -!- int-e has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah | Celebrate Mungday.
20:56:11 <APic> Has or had?
20:56:18 * APic used /topic <TAB>
20:56:21 <int-e> both.
20:56:27 <APic> Uh oh.
20:56:47 <int-e> APic: the line break is added by the client to fit into 80 columns
20:56:50 <APic> But only on Your Window?
20:56:53 <APic> Good.
20:58:09 <APic> Well, RFC1459 only seems to describe <crlf> as CR LF… so an ircd could in Theory allow CR _or_ LF inside Messages =]
20:58:21 <int-e> ...
20:59:25 <pikhq> I suspect in practice an ircd is likely to treat CR, CR LF, and LF as newlines.
20:59:45 <int-e> APic: well actually CR and LF are excluded in the definition of <middle> and <trailing>
21:00:44 <APic> k
21:01:04 <int-e> (which doesn't contradict what you said)
21:01:58 <int-e> in fact since I've used IRC through netcat, I'm pretty sure LF is treated as CR LF by freenode at least :)
21:02:43 <APic>
21:08:16 <ybden> It is, but that's noncompliant
21:08:58 <fizzie> A very common extension, though.
21:16:14 <FireFly> Right, I think it's common for all of CR, LF and CR LF to work equally well
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21:28:59 <Tea3> .
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22:06:38 <\oren\> Tonight I'll finish my ttf analysis program and figure out why I have to run my ttfs through fontforge to make them valid for eindows
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22:41:05 <\oren\> windows just doesn't like my ttfs
22:43:06 <\oren\> with that and the bdf editor i'm working on, i will be able to totally eliminate fontforge from the equation
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23:24:15 <zzo38> I am not sure what use the SDL multithreading functions are if SDL_PushEvent() is not threadsafe. So I have to use SDL_SysWMEvent instead which is a bit klugy and non-portable.
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23:24:53 <ais523> zzo38: I had the same problem a while back! I didn't find a good solution either
23:25:18 <zzo38> Did you use any solution though?
23:25:24 <ais523> (I can confirm that SDL_PushEvent() is not threadsafe, though; not only is it not documented as threadsafe, I actually managed to get it to deadlock in practice)
23:25:29 <ais523> I changed the code to use polling
23:25:35 <ais523> which is a solution, but a bad one
23:25:48 <ais523> I reasoned that it wouldn't hurt that much as SDL does so much polling internally anyway
23:29:37 <zzo38> I instead used SDL_SysWMEvent. However what I did is only compatible with X11, so to work on Windows too will require use of #if or #ifdef to compile different thing for Windows; and another different thing may be needed if it is wanted to worked on FreeDOS or on Linux framebuffer mode, and so on.
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23:33:05 <zzo38> Do you think that a threadsafe version of SDL_PushEvent() should be made up so that it can work?
23:34:58 <zzo38> The document for threads says that event functions are not threadsafe, but that SDL_PushEvent() specifically is threadsafe within a timer callback.
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23:41:00 <ais523> I'd like an async-signal-safe version of SDL_PushEvent()
23:41:08 <ais523> but am not sure how you'd write it
23:49:15 <zzo38> Yes, that is what would be help.
23:52:51 <Zarutian> ais523: willing to limit yourself to architectures that have compare-and-swap instruction?
23:53:24 <ais523> Zarutian: if necessary, although I'd rather use a portable wrapper
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