00:02:30 <zzo38> How is SDL_SysWMEvent implemented on Macintosh?
00:02:50 <shachaf> Which version of Macintosh?
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00:42:23 <lambdabot> EGLL 060020Z AUTO VRB01KT 3600 BR NCD M01/M01 Q1037 NOSIG
00:42:29 <fizzie> Oh no, it's below cow.
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00:59:58 <lambdabot> ENVA 060050Z 07004KT 340V120 CAVOK M05/M09 Q1028 RMK WIND 670FT 15014KT
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01:06:48 <lambdabot> EFHK 060050Z VRB02KT CAVOK M21/M24 Q1036 NOSIG
01:06:57 <lambdabot> KOAK 060053Z 33005KT 10SM FEW180 09/02 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP177 T00890017
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01:15:41 <int-e> <@grumble> twoservers were taken down for maintenance
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01:18:25 <oerjan> there was a notice but i only saw it after it happened.
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01:18:48 <lambdabot> CYUL 060100Z 25012KT 15SM BKN050 BKN075 M06/M11 A2980 RMK SC5AC1 SLP094
01:19:36 <int-e> aww, I didn't get a notice.
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01:20:00 <int-e> and yes I do have +w set
01:20:13 <oerjan> <\oren\> `perl -e 'int - exp 1' <-- this is painful to watch
01:20:28 <oerjan> int-e: i guess you were on the other server, then.
01:25:25 <oerjan> `slwd moon//s/hellos/& and @tells/
01:25:34 <HackEgo> moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
01:32:43 <HackEgo> U+2099 LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER N \ UTF-8: e2 82 99 UTF-16BE: 2099 Decimal: ₙ \ ₙ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <sub> 006E
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01:42:44 <boily> `` grep -FI reflectory wisdom/*
01:42:53 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory
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01:43:11 <boily> `` grep -FIrs reflectory wisdom/*
01:43:17 <boily> `relcome xkapastel
01:43:20 <HackEgo> xkapastel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:43:29 <HackEgo> oerjän moonythedwar̈f moon_̈_ oerjän moon_̈_ int-̈e oerjän boil̈y Moon̈_ boil̈y
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01:52:59 <oerjan> boily: `grwp is highly recommended hth
01:53:49 <HackEgo> 10101:2017-01-06 <oerjän> slwd moon//s/hellos/& and @tells/ \ 10100:2017-01-05 <moonythedwar̈f> le//rn moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain \ 8585:2016-06-23 <moon_̈_> learn_append moon He sometimes causes overmoonification. \ 8584:2016-0
01:54:03 <HackEgo> 2/3: \ 8584:2016-06-23 <oerjän> revert \ 8583:2016-06-23 <moon_̈_> learn_append moon . He sometimes causes overmoonification \ 8483:2016-06-14 <int-̈e> ` sed -i s/person/lunatic/ wisdom/moon \ 8444:2016-06-11 <oerjän> sled wisdom/moon//s/a/a murderous/ \ 7522:2016-04-23 <boil̈y> le/rn moon/Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectore
01:54:18 <HackEgo> 3/3:y object. \ 7521:2016-04-23 <Moon̈_> learn moon is a person, not an object \ 4400:2014-02-06 <boil̈y> echo \'The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.\' >wisdom/moon
01:59:51 <boily> oerjan: y'all with your logical `commands for effectively wisdoming...
02:02:40 * boily *mumble mumble* dans mon temps *mumble* tsé *mumble*
02:03:44 * oerjan brings out a lawnchair for boily, with built in waving cane
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02:16:48 <HackEgo> keenlist//keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
02:16:53 <HackEgo> internet//The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
02:17:14 <boily> . o O ( the internet is for porn, the internet is for porn ♪ )
02:18:04 <oerjan> . o O ( ... and double click, for porn, porn, porn ♪ )
02:20:40 * oerjan probably got that link from here, anyway
02:31:11 <HackEgo> 1/2:google//Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. \ mole//Mole is an SI unit for measuring large numbers of burrowing teeth. \ links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case java
02:31:20 <HackEgo> 2/2:script wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. \ grammar//Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax. \ phantom__hoover//Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
02:32:55 <boily> he\\oren\. could you font 鼠 please?
02:33:27 <HackEgo> U+9F20 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9F20 \ UTF-8: e9 bc a0 UTF-16BE: 9f20 Decimal: 鼠 \ 鼠 (鼠) \ Uppercase: U+9F20 \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
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02:43:39 <xkapastel> anyone here familiar with illative combinatory logic?
02:44:34 * oerjan vaguely recalls it being mentioned before, but it may have been by you
02:45:28 <xkapastel> i don't think i've mentioned it in this chat before, and it's kind of obscure so i can see esolang people being interested in it
03:09:07 <fizzie> We discussed the Finnish illative noun case in May 2010, December 2011, August 2012, January 2013, October 2014 and March 2015, that's all I can find hth
03:09:41 <fizzie> (Deewiant also mentioned "titillative minutiae" in April 2009, but that's probably even less relevant.)
03:13:38 <\oren\> 鼠 will be in the next version
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03:21:17 <ais523> xkapastel: I'm a fan of combinators but don't know what that is
03:22:14 <xkapastel> yeah it seems more and more obscure the more i search
03:22:52 <xkapastel> the tl;dr is it's a way of making a kind of proof assistant/theorem proving environment like agda or idris, but with combinators instead of lambda abstraction
03:23:55 <xkapastel> if you're ever tried to implement or work with a combinator language, you may have noticed that you still need lambda to do typed
03:24:35 <xkapastel> unfortunately it seems like haskell curry was literally one of the last five people to work on it
03:25:00 <xkapastel> all the hype is in type theory these days
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03:26:56 <ais523> hmm, this seems like it's a similar level of scary as dependent typing
03:27:07 <ais523> I approve of dependent typing as an esotopic, but it's not something I've put much effort into trying to understand
03:27:22 <ais523> (some of my coworkers attempted to use it; it didnt really end up going all that well)
03:27:58 <xkapastel> it's the same topics as dependent typing except without the community of excited haskellers blogging about it
03:30:13 <xkapastel> if i figure it out i'll make a nice esolang post about it though
03:30:19 <xkapastel> i do think esolang people will appreciate it
03:30:59 <xkapastel> at the very least it's like, 2 extra constrants to unlambda/io/jot
03:32:02 <xkapastel> if you're brave enough you can port some agda stuff to totally unreadable unlambda code
03:44:49 <ais523> an Unlambda-based proof assistant would be a sort of esolang that hasn't been done yet
03:45:01 <ais523> those are always nice to see
04:10:16 <zzo38> Is the reason for the INTERCAL gopher server being IPv6-only because IPv6 does not need the "Host:" headers that HTTP has?
04:13:15 <ais523> zzo38: I don't know the reason, however my guess is that it'd be related to not wanting or being able to run the server dual-stack, and possibly the server has no IPv4 connectivity
04:13:22 <ais523> it might just be because it's INTERCAL
04:27:56 <Hoolootwo> is it INTERCAL on INTERSTATES or is it I/O?
04:28:19 <ais523> the web framework is probably a different language at this point?
04:28:35 <ais523> err, wait, I may have completely missed the context of the question
04:28:43 <ais523> the answer is still correct I think, but only by chance
04:29:02 <Hoolootwo> I'm... not sure it's a clear question
04:29:12 <Hoolootwo> but I'm pretty sure I understand what's happening
04:30:22 <ais523> put it this way, the context I originally assumed can't possibly have been correct
04:30:30 <ais523> but binary I/O is the standard that's used by almost everything
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06:12:00 <zzo38> I made a SDL library to use in JavaScript but the SDL.prototype.quit function responds slowly; all of the other functions are fast. Do you know why that one is slow?
07:10:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": better image
07:12:57 <HackEgo> ⲀⲁⲂⲃⲄⲅⲆⲇⲈⲉⲊⲋⲌⲍⲎⲏ \ ⲐⲑⲒⲓⲔⲕⲖⲗⲘⲙⲚⲛⲜⲝⲞⲟ \ ⲠⲡⲢⲣⲤⲥⲦⲧⲨⲩⲪⲫⲬⲭⲮⲯ \ Ⲱⲱ
07:14:19 <HackEgo> ᚁᚂᚃᚄᚅᚆᚇᚈᚉᚊᚋᚌᚍᚎᚏ \ ᚐᚑᚒᚓᚔᚕᚖᚗᚘᚙᚚ᚛᚜
07:14:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": it did not work?
07:15:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": Reverted to version as of 07:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
07:16:11 <\oren\> So yah, ogham and coptic are in
07:40:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50665&oldid=50653 * BeHuman * (+40) /* Code */
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08:49:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50668&oldid=45784 * Hq9++fan * (-1)
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08:53:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50669 * Hq9++fan * (+93) Created page with "I'm a fan of simple esoteric/joke languages. My favorite is HQ9++ which is "object oriented"."
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10:25:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50670&oldid=50665 * BeHuman * (+23) /* C */
10:37:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50671&oldid=46702 * Hq9++fan * (+8)
10:42:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Object-oriented paradigm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50672&oldid=45271 * Hq9++fan * (+100)
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11:40:19 <HackEgo> mapole//A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
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13:11:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50673&oldid=50664 * Hq9++fan * (+23)
13:11:40 <Taneb> What's the most common convention in brainfuck for attempting to output negative numbers?
13:13:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50674&oldid=50669 * Hq9++fan * (+184)
13:13:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50675&oldid=50674 * Hq9++fan * (+2)
13:15:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:GolfJoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50676&oldid=35637 * Hq9++fan * (+63)
14:06:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[05ab1e]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50677 * Hq9++fan * (+24) Created page with "It's a golfing language."
14:39:39 <Taneb> I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in Agda! https://gist.github.com/Taneb/a4e166c913265f837f2216fa5e707b95
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16:00:54 <b_jonas> Taneb: I believe the most common convention is that cells store numbers modulo 256 so each number is printed as a different byte
16:06:57 <izabera> is there a zip (or gzip or xz or...) quine?
16:07:31 <Taneb> I believe I've heard of one
16:08:51 <Taneb> https://research.swtch.com/zip and https://alf.nu/ZipQuine
16:11:34 <Taneb> My brainfuck implementation is not faster than anything :(
16:13:42 <\oren\> I continue to predict that trump's healthcare law will amaunt to renaming it TrumpCare.
16:24:31 <rdococ> wonder what kind of programming language would symbolise trump
16:25:38 <rdococ> wonder why Hq9++fan created that image to replace the "code golf" phrase
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16:37:31 <fizzie> Not only odd, it's also an accessibility issue.
16:49:25 <rdococ> unless you add alt text
16:52:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50678&oldid=50671 * Oerjan * (-8) Undo revision 50671 by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) (Golfing is not a primary characteristic of this language. In fact, anything nontrivial is bloody verbose.)
16:53:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50679&oldid=50668 * Oerjan * (+1) Undo revision 50668 by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) (Removing the link is not helpful)
16:54:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50680&oldid=50679 * Oerjan * (-20) OTOH, we have our own page.
17:06:44 <rdococ> Peano does not sound very esoteric right now
17:07:54 <oerjan> make it crazier and rename it Peanuts
17:08:32 <rdococ> how will I make it crazier?
17:08:55 <rdococ> Peano is literally lambda calculus.
17:09:03 <oerjan> i just do the puns around here
17:09:21 <Taneb> rdococ, have you seen Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download?
17:09:50 <Taneb> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is literal lambda calculus
17:10:09 <Taneb> Or possibly literate
17:10:29 <rdococ> can you give me an example?
17:10:59 <Taneb> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download
17:11:06 <rdococ> o____________________________o
17:12:23 <rdococ> so how will I create crazy lalculus?
17:12:32 <Taneb> A language with 2D semantics, but 1D syntax, should that be in Category:Two-dimensional languages?
17:12:40 <Taneb> (in particular, COMPLEX)
17:14:05 <oerjan> Taneb: see the talk page
17:14:57 <Taneb> oerjan, does not apply, COMPLEX's memory is exclusively named variables, but its instructions are placed on a 2D grid
17:15:08 <b_jonas> whcih sort? eager or lazy?
17:15:26 <Taneb> But are written sequentially with line numbers
17:16:12 <Taneb> https://github.com/Taneb/COMPLEX/blob/master/examples/FIB.1%2B1J for example
17:18:17 <oerjan> i'm vaguely of the principle that this ought to be discussed _on_ the wiki.
17:18:31 <oerjan> so still see the talk page.
17:20:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50681&oldid=30636 * Taneb * (+375)
17:21:27 <fizzie> Taneb: FWIW, I think there's at least one language in the category already where the syntax is "conventional". I'll see if I can find it.
17:22:27 <fizzie> 2DP is the first one I came along.
17:24:04 <Taneb> Hmm, COMPLEX is already in the category
17:24:20 <Taneb> Seems I was more confident back when I made it
17:28:29 * rdococ ponders the logic of Peanuts
17:29:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50682&oldid=50681 * Fizzie * (+352) Opine.
17:30:22 <fizzie> I'm wrong about 2DP. :/
17:30:26 <fizzie> I read the examples too fast.
17:32:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50683&oldid=50682 * Fizzie * (+164) Undo! Revert! Rollback!
17:37:41 <rdococ> whoever wrote https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation is lazy
17:38:55 <b_jonas> today's xkcd talks about irc
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17:45:42 <int-e> it's NOT funny!!!!1
17:51:04 <rdococ> don't worry. I'm sure he'll have merged with the singularity by 1e+10.
17:56:45 <int-e> oh will you look at that, BTC is below $1k again.
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18:14:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50684&oldid=49929 * Hq9++fan * (-21) /* Brevity */
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18:19:37 <rdococ> a crazy version of lambda calculus
18:26:21 <b_jonas> what? Real Fast Nora Hair Salon 2: Shear Disaster Download isn't crazy
18:28:38 <shachaf> unless you're talking about a slightly different language
18:30:16 <int-e> this is neat. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/01/an_sql_injectio.html
18:31:10 <shachaf> int-e: missing a quote at the beginning tdnh
18:31:11 <b_jonas> int-e: isn't that missing an apostrophe at the beginning?
18:31:49 <shachaf> also why do people seem to think xkcd invented sql injection?
18:31:51 <int-e> b_jonas: yeah, hmm.
18:32:00 <int-e> shachaf: do they now?
18:32:11 <int-e> xkcd made it into a meme.
18:33:15 <b_jonas> why would they use that name, which rarely works because it requires a table named just right, instead of something like ' OR 1 = 1 OR '
18:34:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm going to advance the wild theory that perhaps they were not in fact attempting a serious cyberattack on companies house
18:34:51 <b_jonas> by the way, I'm considering to make urls such that they sometimes end in a dot or close parenthesis, which will often break some stupid conventions and code that for some reason don't want to delimit urls properly
18:35:16 <b_jonas> I've seen one that wasn't related to markdown, but I don't remember what it was now
18:36:14 <Phantom_Hoover> xchat doesn't consider brackets to be part of a URL but that's the sort of issue that's inevitable when you're trying to heuristically pick them out of chat
18:36:39 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: conventions where people quote an url in a sentence and add a period or comma that isn't part of the url, not separated in any way;
18:36:44 <Phantom_Hoover> with markdown it's just another instance of it being a clusterfuck of in-band syntax
18:36:58 <b_jonas> code like the markdown parser stack exchange uses
18:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> reading reddit comments quite frequently turns into picking apart markdown gore
18:37:44 <Phantom_Hoover> especially if the poor fool writing the comment tried to use * to denote multiplication
18:39:34 <b_jonas> For square brackets, the problem is backwards. When URL's were designed, they weren't supposed to require unqouted square brackets, and mediawiki is right to use square brackets to delimit urls in some cases. But later people invented this VERY STUPID syntax extension for http urls where an ipv6 address in colon notation is surrounded by square brackets. that's just stupid. they should've used any of lots of other available delimiters, including parenthe
18:40:04 <zzo38> Use the notation like <telnet://localhost/> for example
18:41:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, that or double quotes or putting urls on their own line is what people should do in most cases, and at least put urls in separate word separated by spaces in casual conversation if you don't even want a double quote.
18:41:51 <b_jonas> I usually use double quotes. Some stupid clients other people use actually discourage that, because they don't recognize urls that are double-quoted. (It's the same problem as with irc NOTICE really.)
18:42:21 <b_jonas> I almost never use angle brackets
18:43:39 <shachaf> <> is specified in some RFC.
18:46:51 <shachaf> Sometimes I like unescaped double quotes in my URLs.
18:47:44 <b_jonas> shachaf: iirc some old rfc says use either <> or ""
18:47:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: I don't think that's allowed in urls
18:48:13 <b_jonas> single quotes are, sure, and dollar signs and commas and semicolons and parenthesis too
18:48:15 <shachaf> But sometimes I do it anyway.
18:54:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:Code-golf.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50685 * Rdococ * (+254) Is this necessary?
19:07:39 <zzo38> The format <> is also used in RDF Turtle format too
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19:16:16 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/evil"file
19:18:15 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/evil"file.htm
19:20:12 <rdococ> wait, I'm pretty sure " isn't an allowed character in file names
19:20:17 <zzo38> That isn't going to work, putting in the HTML code like that. You can use % encodings instead to link inside of a HTML though
19:20:19 <rdococ> or is that why it's evil?
19:20:37 <\oren\> rdococ: " is legal in file names, just not in urls or somehting
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19:21:41 <rdococ> in HTML tags, attributes with string values are delimited by " I believe
19:22:40 <\oren\> rdococ: yes, the autohtm script doesn't work for this url
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19:23:33 <\oren\> i'll try to avoid " in file names other than that one
19:27:17 <\oren\> the only character actually forbidden in file names is / iirc
19:27:48 <\oren\> you can even have a file named '<CTCP>'
19:28:53 <shachaf> this is really annoying to several people, as you know
19:31:53 <rdococ> still thinking about peanuts
19:32:07 <rdococ> what about some allergy instruction
19:36:49 <\oren\> hmm, what if I modified nano to support the use of fraktur and blackboard bold for syntax highlighting?
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19:44:09 <\oren\> actually, i guess a more general feature would be "enhanced display", whereby you could set some s///g type commands to be run on the file as it is displayed onscreen
19:46:08 <\oren\> so if the file for example has "x -> y" you could set a rule for that to be displayed as "x → y"
19:46:35 <rdococ> I believe old versions of Squeak/Smalltalk had _ display as →
19:46:52 <rdococ> but I think it was a font, not an actual substitution
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19:48:56 <HackEgo> 1210) <ais523_> Funge-98 has half the advantages of a nomic
19:49:10 <HackEgo> 381) <fungot> elliott: i have yet to demonstrate that the sml community has less productive power than the real chunk of meat. \ 416) <monqy> itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him.
19:49:36 <int-e> somehow, I'm not surprised
19:49:47 <HackEgo> 387) <augur> ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently <Phantom_Hoover> So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
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19:51:44 <int-e> <shachaf> mkx bin/"//quote; quote
19:51:45 <\oren\> and of course one would want a[3] to display as a₃
19:52:58 <\oren\> and pow(x,3) to display as x³
19:53:40 <\oren\> because why not make C look incredibly elite
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19:53:55 <rdococ> this is why I prefer the ^ syntaxx
19:54:17 <rdococ> it's like x*3 is to 3x
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19:54:54 <\oren\> nah, for c we would want x^3 to show as x⊕3
19:55:40 <rdococ> I meant in languages where ^ is exponentiation like it's meant to be
19:56:12 <lambdabot> LOWI 061950Z 26004KT 9999 FEW040 M12/M14 Q1036 R08/19//95 NOSIG
19:57:21 <int-e> cold, first time below -10°C this winter, I believe
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19:58:54 <int-e> that's such an ugly glyph.
19:59:24 <\oren\> int-e: not in my font it isnt
19:59:54 <\oren\> and hey why not go whole hog and make int show as ℤ, float as ℚ and double as ℚℚ
20:00:24 <\oren\> oh and unsigned as ℕ of course
20:00:53 <rdococ> or would that be complex floats?
20:01:30 <rdococ> anyway float can only represent an infinitesimal subset of ℚ
20:02:35 <rdococ> tho there are numbers that double can represent that float can't, none of them can represent 1/3, just a finite binary approximation.
20:03:23 <rdococ> actually, I wonder what binary encoded base 6 would be
20:03:55 <\oren\> well, it would be octal but 6 and 7 are forbidden
20:04:12 <rdococ> it'd be more complicated than that...
20:04:22 <\oren\> and you carry at 5 and multiply by 6 ans=d such
20:04:36 <rdococ> but you'd be able to represent 1/3 succinctly.
20:05:10 <\oren\> I once made a set of bignum functions that used base 255
20:05:40 <\oren\> rdococ: yes. stored in an asciz string
20:06:02 <\oren\> so 1 is 0, 2 is 1, etc. and 0 is the end of the number
20:06:04 <rdococ> wouldn't that be base 256?
20:06:58 <\oren\> 255 has factors 5, 3 and 17
20:09:51 <\oren\> huh. 65535 has factors 3, 5, 17, and 257
20:11:13 <\oren\> 4294967295 = 3×5×17×257×65537
20:13:07 <\oren\> in general 2^(x*2)-1 = (2^x-1)*(2^x+1)
20:15:08 <int-e> 2^64-1 = 3*5*17*641*65537*6700417
20:17:13 <APic> Good old BSD-Game /usr/bin/factor ☺
20:17:28 <APic> Seems to be Part of coreutils
20:17:38 <APic> „primes“ was the BSD-Game
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20:38:47 <rdococ> what about a language that is the OPPOSITE of haskell
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20:39:27 <Taneb> Cohaskell: Haskell but with all the arrows reversed
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20:46:42 <\oren\> D: is the compact disk drive
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20:54:53 <APic> otherbot: /join #botters
21:00:01 <myname> is the s or the c silent in "scent"?
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21:04:03 <myname> that doesn't make sense?
21:16:13 <rdococ> how do I twist the idea of an untyped lambda calculus to the point it's nearly impossible to program in
21:19:51 <calamari> I've been playing around with computation I can accomplish using a single, fixed (but arbitrarily long) closed-form expression. I can do branching (albeit with discontinuities), because I can simulate 2/3rds of a sign function as sqrt(x^2)/x and then manipulate that into a multiplication by 1 or 0. Obviously no memory tape, but there can be multiple inputs and a single output. This got me wondering: where does a closed-form
21:19:51 <calamari> expression fit as far as computational class?
21:29:58 <int-e> it really depends on what you allow in a "closed formula". http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeFormulas.html has "closed formylas" for the n-th prime, (13) and (14).
21:32:28 <int-e> (and those ideas should extend to primitive recursive functions, I think)
21:45:13 <int-e> <rdococ> I have an idea <rdococ> no ideas?
21:45:37 <rdococ> you forgot the <rdococ> nvm in the middle
21:46:26 <rdococ> just reinventing untyped lambda calculus is not esoteric...
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21:52:29 <calamari> int-e, I was going based on this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-form_expression#Comparison_of_different_classes_of_expressions
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22:01:10 <calamari> it's interesting to me though, because of the aforementioned conditionals, and also of course parenthesis provide a primitive form of control flow.
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22:05:24 <calamari> hmm, actually Wikipedia may have answered it for me and I missed it: "Problems are said to be tractable if they can be solved in terms of a closed-form expression."
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23:47:24 <Taneb> ARM explicitly do not allow you to demonstrate programming proficiency in an interview situation using Befunge
23:47:27 <Taneb> http://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_arm/external/jobDetails.do?functionName=getJobDetail&jobPostId=28633&localeCode=en-us&source=Indeed.com&sourceType=PREMIUM_POST_SITE
23:47:32 <Taneb> "Be able to demonstrate in an interview situation a basic capability to code without an IDE or Internet connection, in a programming language such as Python, Java, C, C++, Go, Ruby, Perl or within reason, anything else of your choice (no Befunge though)."
23:48:54 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, are you going to work at ARM?
23:49:55 <shachaf> The "though" suggests that Befunge is "within reason".
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