00:00:30 <olsner> Java might be IDE-dependent enough to actually warrant just using eclipse though
00:00:48 <olsner> you can map <Esc>:w to save in eclipse
00:00:57 <boily> hellolsner. tried it a while ago, and it's not a good idea... just better to keep everything separate.
00:01:12 <hppavilion1> How many total orders over the reals are there?
00:01:40 <hppavilion1> How many total orders over the naturals are there
00:04:20 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
00:05:27 <hppavilion1> [!? autocorrects to ‽ for me, though I usually just use altgr+' where I have it bound]
00:06:42 <hppavilion1> Marcela_Gandara: So, I take it you aren't looking for Canaima help?
00:16:00 <hppavilion1> Marcela_Gandara: You are looking for help with Canaima or you aren't looking for help with Canaima
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00:32:22 <zzo38> This is the esoteric programming IRC.
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00:35:13 <HackEgo> fish//Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it.
00:36:44 <oerjan> helloily. good advice as always.
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00:42:04 <hppavilion1> Marcela_Gandara: OK, just checking. We occasionally get people from Venezuela looking for help with the Venezuelan Government's official Linux distribution- Canaima- for no apparent reason
00:49:31 <oerjan> oh Marcela Gandara is a singer
00:51:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdome: not found
00:51:21 <HackEgo> The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere".
00:53:45 <boily> hellørjan. the Wisdom is Good.
01:00:34 <HackEgo> in//In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
01:01:28 <boily> . o O ( the ocean is more like grayish green. grayn. )
01:01:48 * boily mapoles the HackEgo
01:01:50 <HackEgo> esoterra//Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
01:01:56 <shachaf> "In 1492 Jesus sailed the ocean blue."
01:02:35 <boily> `slwd esoterra//s/\b/eso/Eso/
01:02:36 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unknown option to `s'
01:02:44 <boily> `slwd esoterra//s/\beso/Eso/
01:02:47 <HackEgo> esoterra//Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as Esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
01:03:10 <shachaf> http://poetrynook.com/poem/religion-back-home
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01:11:37 <HackEgo> 7445:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. \ 7444:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In your dreams, sucker!
01:14:06 <HackEgo> vector space//A vector space is just a module over a field.
01:14:31 <boily> that makes me think: in my opinion there isn't enough poetry in the Wisdom.
01:14:34 <HackEgo> 6170:2015-11-02 <oerjän> le/rn vector space/A vector space is just a module over a field.
01:15:56 <boily> googling for latex mahjong gives http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/new-style-latex-mahjong-massage-pillows.html . something was lost in translation somewhere...
01:17:03 <HackEgo> Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé egy szavad
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01:18:16 <boily> fizzie: [GENERIC HOLLERING]!
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01:18:31 <HackEgo> waji: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:19:55 <shachaf> copumpkin: what build system should i use
01:20:56 <copumpkin> I hear people like cmake but I generally don't
01:21:10 <boily> chellopumpkin. I hate cmake.
01:21:31 <shachaf> I looked at it a bit and didn't find anything appealing but maybe I'd like it if I looked more.
01:21:41 <copumpkin> I hear haskellers going on about shake
01:22:02 <shachaf> I want something high-level and declarative, like bazel.
01:22:15 <shachaf> Should I use bazel or a bazel clone?
01:22:46 <shachaf> No public Haskell support right now.
01:24:06 <boily> the road to cmake is paved with good intentions...
01:24:20 <shachaf> shake didn't seem sufficiently declarative when I looked at it.
01:24:36 <boily> I think bazel is your best bet right now.
01:35:53 <alercah> not for Haskell, unless you want to take on the work of writing the build rules for it
01:38:58 <shachaf> I tried but writing bazel rules is a lot of work.
01:39:15 <shachaf> Buck has rules for Haskell, though they don't seem to be compatible with GHC 8.
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02:02:08 <oerjan> <hppavilion1> How many total orders over the naturals are there <- |R| hth
02:02:24 <oerjan> by a simple squeezing argument
02:03:44 <oerjan> each order is represented by a subset of N x N, so <= 2^|N|.
02:04:19 <oerjan> and for each subset of N you can encode it as an order of N.
02:05:19 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion1 if you've pinged out, see logs
02:06:51 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] if you've changed nicks again, see message to hppavilion1
02:09:04 <shachaf> and it would have lined up so well, too
02:10:29 * oerjan ponders whether to give in to shachaf's evil temptation
02:11:26 <\oren\> wait so you're telling me nano had a line numbers feature all along but it's disabled by a compile-time flag?!?!?!?!
02:11:36 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
02:11:49 <shachaf> a heffalump or woozle / is very confusil
02:11:57 <shachaf> a heffalump or woozle's very sly
02:12:51 <boily> he\\oren\. Vim is Healthy and Good for You.
02:13:02 * oerjan whistles it just to shut up shachaf
02:13:50 <oerjan> it's ok you deserve it after today's vim trolling
02:14:55 <oerjan> . o O ( In einem alternativen Universum, shachaf trollt nicht )
02:16:22 <oerjan> you were making a "no true vim" argument, essentially.
02:16:51 <shachaf> after the part that wasn't trolling hth
02:16:59 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:19:47 <\oren\> I get a massive improvement just by compiling nano for myself and enabling all the features
02:20:28 <oerjan> \oren\: but doesn't that turn it into micro
02:20:31 <HackEgo> vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
02:21:36 <boily> were n ever used in roman numerals?
02:21:55 <oerjan> but i may not have seen all the weird variations
02:22:22 <oerjan> i don't think you were normally allowed to have two smaller letters before a larger one, though.
02:23:11 <shachaf> and oerjan would know, he was there
02:23:17 <HackEgo> 6404:2015-12-17 <lifthrasiïr> learn vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
02:23:27 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
02:23:54 <oerjan> this is of course the time when he's sleeping.
02:24:02 <oerjan> or possibly just waking up
02:24:23 <shachaf> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/15.12.17 hth
02:25:29 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: probably related to roman numerals.
02:26:00 <lifthrasiir> ...except that the number does not seem to look like 996
02:26:32 <oerjan> you said something about fractions
02:26:38 <shachaf> but 237 is an east-west freeway
02:27:20 <lambdabot> Local time for lifthrasiir is Tue Jan 10 02:27:19 2017
02:27:29 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: probably meant to say that I want to represent 237.5 or 237 2/3
02:27:33 <oerjan> that doesn't look overly korean
02:27:53 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: because I went to UTC server for my proxy
02:28:07 <\oren\> for some reason ubuntu is stuck on nano 2.2.6
02:28:27 <\oren\> the most recent version is 2.7.3
02:29:08 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: i still don't get what that has to do with vim
02:29:17 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: I don't get that either, feel free to rewrite
02:29:49 <boily> lifthrannyeonghasimnikkasiir.
02:31:24 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
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02:32:57 <oerjan> we only added that formally very recently
02:33:50 <oerjan> but have been fixing up entries forever
02:34:16 <oerjan> (or for 13.8 billion years, whichever is shorter)
02:34:46 <lifthrasiir> `learn vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
02:34:49 <HackEgo> Relearned 'vim': vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
02:35:05 <fizzie> We had an internet breakage, that's all.
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02:35:51 <shachaf> fizzie: now why are you awake
02:36:10 <fizzie> Because our Internet was broken.
02:36:13 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Tue Jan 10 02:36:09 2017
02:36:28 <oerjan> shachaf: it's because he's in the same timezone as lifthrasiir hth
02:36:37 <fizzie> How am I supposed to sleep without a working connection?
02:36:55 <fizzie> I stream all my dreams from Google Dreams. (Not a real product.)
02:38:11 <boily> lifthrasiir lives so far away in the future that he transcends the mere concept of timezones.
02:38:34 <lifthrasiir> boily: indeed, because I sleep at 4 AM local time anyway
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04:18:22 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 13m 2s ago: if you've pinged out, see logs
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04:18:42 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 11m 50s ago: if you've changed nicks again, see message to hppavilion1
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04:19:14 <oerjan> don't worry, i only did those
04:19:39 <hppavilion[1]> In other news, I rearranged my number row so that it reads 0123456789 rather than 1234567890
04:19:43 <oerjan> that means i couldn't be bothered to @tell it after i realized you'd been idle for an hour.
04:20:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, the only way I knew to lambdabot it was that I can see where you sent it, so...
04:21:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: OK, so n! = 2^n when n = |N|. I have a feeling this applies to all cardinals?
04:23:04 <oerjan> note that the permutations are only a subset of the total orderings
04:23:36 <oerjan> there's no obvious correspondence either way
04:24:04 <oerjan> although they may have the same cardinality, regardless
04:24:26 <oerjan> what i mean is, ! could mean more than one thing there
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04:25:17 <oerjan> bijections from a set to itself
04:26:23 <oerjan> but when the set is infinite, more than one permutation might give the same order, and not all orders might come from a permutation
04:27:30 <oerjan> it might work if you look only at orderings isomorphic to the minimal ordinal
04:28:14 <hppavilion[1]> Also an interesting question: Is it possible to assign at least one number-theoretic interpretation of relationship (or... whatever) for every value in P(N)?
04:29:12 <oerjan> i don't understand "number-theoretic interpretation of relationship"
04:31:47 <hppavilion[1]> Basically it boils down to whether it's possible to- for any set S where S \subs N- define a predicate pred(n) using some restricted set of rules (maybe related to Peano Arithmetic?) where the set {n : n \in N, pred(n)} = S
04:32:11 <hppavilion[1]> I have a feeling I'm moving into Gödel territory here
04:32:44 <oerjan> there are only a countable number of predicates you can write down
04:35:48 <oerjan> i think the number of permutations, and the number of total (even partial, actually) orderings on an infinite set both always have the same cardinality as the power set.
04:37:49 <oerjan> start with a minimal well ordering of the set. its ordinal will have the property 2*n = n, so you have as many pairs as elements.
04:38:59 <oerjan> if S is a subset, define the permutation to swap 2*x and 2*x+1 iff x is in S.
04:39:21 <oerjan> erm, assuming the set consists of the ordinals, for convenience.
04:40:28 <oerjan> that gives an injection from subsets to permutations. and a permutation gives a unique order (the well-ordered-ness ensures that)
04:41:04 <oerjan> and an order gives a unique subset of M x M, which is the same size as M (assuming AoC)
04:41:40 <oerjan> so we have a full circle of injections, and they're all the same size.
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04:50:13 <HackEgo> Forty means "in a fort-like manner".
04:52:53 <oerjan> . o O ( on the banks of Wet Lake, with a scenic view of Stony Mountain )
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05:13:27 <HackEgo> 9532:2016-10-30 <oerjän> slwd forty//s/f/F/;s/$/./ \ 5023:2014-10-06 <mroman̈_> learn forty means "in a fort-like manner"
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06:01:36 <\oren\> nano 2.7.3 is way way better than the old version of nano I had!
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06:02:39 <\oren\> it has many new shortcuts and features
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07:41:18 <doesthiswork> have you heard of http://www-igm.univ-mlv.fr/%7Elecroq/string/fdm.html#SECTION00220 ?
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10:40:09 <b_jonas> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
10:40:17 <b_jonas> Wizards is shooting themselves in the foot!
10:40:53 <b_jonas> they're printing a web address to some rare cards in Aether Revolt (the Standard-legal set soon to be released).
10:41:47 <b_jonas> that web address will be broken in two years, tops, knowing them, but the cards will be alive for way more (unless they do something even worse with M:tG)
10:41:59 <b_jonas> How can they be SO stupid?
10:42:13 <b_jonas> I mean, the Deckmaster logo on the back of the card was an honest mistake
10:42:22 <b_jonas> but this one is just stupidity
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11:35:53 <HackEgo> codensity//Codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed.
11:36:05 <Jafet> presumably a result of their market research
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15:02:39 <fizzie> b_jonas: They should just make the cards out of e-ink with updatable firmware.
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15:29:18 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, those would be too expensive. I want my commons from the nickel box.
15:49:21 <rdococ> I have designed the tastiest language ever
15:51:01 <Jafet> eta? but I don't even know her!
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16:40:14 <oerjan> <rdococ> lambda <-- i refuse to believe that name isn't taken. well, without the underline.
16:40:45 <oerjan> in fact, on our wiki even.
16:41:31 <rdococ> it is taken, but only by a stub article linking to a now-nonexistent website on the wayback machine
16:41:54 <rdococ> But "Lambda" is a boring name anyway.
16:44:12 <oerjan> just take the pun a step further and make cowda or pigda
16:44:59 <oerjan> right, it should be calfda or pigletda
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16:46:11 <oerjan> your puns are imprecide tdnh
16:46:26 <rdococ> your spelling is imprecise
16:46:41 <oerjan> true. although you could consider that a pun too
16:47:37 <rdococ> "cide" is a suffix that refers to death
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16:47:44 <rdococ> so if you want to kill impres, be my guest
16:48:11 <b_jonas> rdococ: is that like bobslaying, when you kill bobs?
16:48:22 <rdococ> -slaying is not a suffix
16:48:31 <rdococ> you don't say you're going dragonslaying
16:48:38 <rdococ> you say dragon slaying
16:49:07 <b_jonas> and then is your sword called dragonslayer or dragon slayer?
16:49:49 <rdococ> call it whatever you want. names don't have to be bound by the complicated laws of [insert language here]
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16:50:56 <rdococ> you could call it rekt, henotiseniakome, cececelececi, lungicide, or whatever.
16:52:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coin: not found
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17:01:01 <HackEgo> miricoin dobelacoin dzzcoin wakecoin wadcoin kracoin diccoin clariorcoin backlecoin lietzschemycoin pauchblcoin sublcoin grussercoin rhodifycoin pringcoin membateualcoin hydrakhaniecoin hatncoin rilvcoin surfcoin
17:01:21 <rdococ> where is the lambdacoin
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17:12:42 <moony> oerjan, you want the other one.
17:12:49 -!- otherbot has joined.
17:14:00 <moony> *has now offically made a joke about how otherbot is booting.*
17:14:10 <moony> (a terrible joke, but still.)
17:14:10 <oerjan> -help butidontknowanycommands
17:14:14 <otherbot> moony: Command groups (use list <group>): general alias capitalism chanop fact fun main sandbox tpt track
17:14:17 <otherbot> moony: echo ping pong eval flushq help list
17:14:37 <oerjan> moony: your -help needs a reference to -list hth
17:15:52 <otherbot> oerjan: poke fgen fact asen wolf rainbow rainbowact ddos up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-b-a - flip attack addattack
17:15:54 <moony> -restart change to the -help command requires rebooting the core.
17:15:54 -!- otherbot has quit (Client Quit).
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17:16:16 <otherbot> That command does not exist! If you dont know any commands, try running "-list"!
17:17:43 <oerjan> -echo <CTCP>ACTION testing<CTCP>
17:19:07 <oerjan> -wolf How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
17:19:09 <otherbot> Input: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?; Result: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? | A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. | (According to the tongue twister, although the paper "The Ability of Woodchucks to Chuck Cellulose Fibers" by P.A. Paskevich and T.B. Shea in Annals of Improbable R (message truncated)
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17:22:33 <otherbot> moony: Command groups (use list <group>): general alias capitalism chanop fact fun main sandbox tpt track
17:23:35 <moony> tpt wasnt made by me
17:23:44 <otherbot> MOOOooOOOooooOooOoOoOooOOOOoOOooOoOooooOOoOoOooOOOoOOoOooOooO
17:24:00 <moony> i blame wlp1s1 for making it
17:25:36 <moony> -echo `echo beep. testing.
17:25:43 <moony> it shouldnt work btw
17:25:53 <moony> who removed the hidden char.
17:26:54 <wlp1s1> .eval bot.cmds.echo.toString()
17:26:59 * moony strangles wlp1s1 anyways.
17:27:10 <wlp1s1> -eval bot.cmds.echo.toString()
17:27:16 <wlp1s1> -eval bot.cmds.echo.code.toString()
17:27:16 <otherbot> 'function (args,chan) {bot.sendMsg(chan,args.join(\' \'));}'
17:27:24 <wlp1s1> moony: did you overwrite it :P
17:27:54 <moony> nope, thats the ircbot.js version
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17:28:23 <moony> *adds a null to the beginning.*
17:28:38 <moony> -restart echopatch 2000
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17:30:41 <moony> -restart echopatch 300
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17:31:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: echo: not found
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17:32:26 <moony> -restart echopatch 9001. because broken things.
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17:38:48 <oerjan> -echo <CTCP>ACTION probably no longer works<CTCP>
17:38:49 <otherbot> <CTCP>ACTION probably no longer works<CTCP>
17:39:20 <oerjan> -echo lambdabot: @ping
17:40:21 <moony> -echo lambdabot might react to me. :D
17:40:22 <otherbot> lambdabot might react to me. :D
17:41:11 <oerjan> it doesn't do that sort of thing
17:41:17 <oerjan> -echo what about fungot?
17:41:17 <fungot> oerjan: you don't evaluate an expression n times
17:41:40 <oerjan> fungot: SOMETIMES i do
17:41:41 <fungot> oerjan: removing functionality would be superb. when a problem domain like memory management is in c or java
17:42:19 <oerjan> fungot: how destructive
17:42:19 <fungot> oerjan: what's for lunch in germany we have 1-, 2-, fnord,
17:42:33 <oerjan> fungot: lunch in germany is the wurst
17:42:33 <fungot> oerjan: well i'm swedish is basically english
17:43:08 <oerjan> fungot: det tror jag inte något på
17:43:50 <olsner> fungot: så sant som det är sagt
17:43:50 <fungot> olsner: i got two file handles from a data structure that doesn't use a consistent naming.
17:45:03 <fungot> rdococ: did you ever do such a thing
17:46:14 <moony> i have a challange for you all if you want to try it.
17:48:44 <rdococ> good idea. I'd be terrible at it.
17:48:50 <rdococ> but too late, you piqued my curiosity.
17:49:48 <moony> join #valoran-botwar to see my result :P
17:50:16 <moony> <anotherbot> -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)
17:50:17 <moony> <otherbot> .echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)
17:50:17 <moony> <otherbot> undefined
17:50:17 <moony> <anotherbot> -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)
17:51:20 <moony> the init code is 'bot.xyz = ".echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)"; bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)'
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18:14:42 <fizzie> oerjan: sånt är livet.
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18:20:11 * rdococ occasionally tries to Ctrl+B when creating an article
18:27:03 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
18:27:13 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
18:27:37 <Taneb> Can someone change that to past tense? The exam was this morning and I think it went all right
18:28:11 <Taneb> I can't remember the cool way of doing it
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18:49:30 <\oren\> almost done adding my super cool feature to nano
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19:25:31 <izabera> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/106316/zero-sum-covers
19:25:40 <izabera> ignoring the golf challenge
19:25:48 <izabera> what's the best algorithm for that problem?
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19:30:09 <moony> may as well show off my almighty otherbot <-> anotherbot (the lightweight otherbot) loop.
19:30:11 <moony> -eval bot.xyz = ".echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz.concat(\"// hi\"))"; bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz);"" //wlp1s1 loves this
19:30:11 <otherbot> .echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz.concat("// hi"))
19:30:17 <moony> anotherbot is not here so it wont do a thing
19:30:31 <moony> rdococ added to it
19:30:36 <moony> leme grab the original
19:31:06 <wlp1s1> do it in #esoteric-blah
19:31:57 <moony> wlp1s1, i was showing the code, not the actually loop.
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19:38:44 <shachaf> fizzie: <shachaf> Looking at the bazel code, it has a FileStatusWithDigest interface, and a comment says "We use digests only if a fast digest lookup is available from the filesystem", but I don't see any non-null implementations that provide it. Is this something that public filesystem interfaces provide?
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19:40:25 <shachaf> fizzie: But I think it's probably provided by CitC (as described in http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2016/7/204032-why-google-stores-billions-of-lines-of-code-in-a-single-repository/fulltext ).
19:41:48 <pikhq> Oh, more than likely.
19:41:59 <pikhq> That sounds like the sort of thing that CitC would provide.
19:42:29 <shachaf> But it's a shame because I want that from my filesystem in general.
19:42:44 <shachaf> In fact I was asking about it a few weeks ago before seeing this thing in bazel.
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19:50:49 <int-e> izabera: it's not hard to do it in O(n log n) time, by keeping track of the various cumulative sums, noting that a sublist of zero sum is indicated by a duplicate cumulative sum. For example, http://lpaste.net/1865315317538881536
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19:53:13 <int-e> izabera: it'll be O(n) if either the cumulative sums have a known bound or you believe in hashtables.
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20:25:02 <izabera> int-e: sorry can you explain what that code does?
20:27:48 <int-e> it checks whether a list can be covered by sublists that sum to 0. :-P
20:30:04 <int-e> I don't want to explain the Haskell code. That's why I provided the basic idea of tracking cumulative sums just before the link.
20:31:14 <izabera> haskell is about as readable as befunge
20:31:55 <FireFly> I would agree actually, both languages are decently readable
20:32:48 <int-e> izabera: I'm sure the resident Haskell programmers will agree that the code I wrote isn't pretty.
20:34:19 <shachaf> What language would you prefer?
20:35:09 <izabera> i can probably read anything c like
20:35:51 <shachaf> I think that code is directly portable to that sort of languge.
20:36:02 <shachaf> Everyone uses that nowadays.
20:36:42 <moony> shachaf, i'll be taking my C and JS. thanks.
20:41:05 <shachaf> izabera: http://slbkbs.org/iz.txt
20:41:31 <shachaf> Direct port without bothering to figure out the algorithm or anything.
20:42:07 <moony> izabera, i can do the same. BYOND's custom language is fairly readable to me, i just dislike its variable declarations.
20:42:29 <shachaf> I would say that they're about equally readable.
20:42:53 <moony> BYOND's language is a C/python hybrid.
20:43:07 <shachaf> Of course in Python you would write for x in xs or something.
20:43:31 <moony> learning to program in it to make patches and changes for urist mcstation (the Bay12Forums SS13 station and baystation variant)
20:44:34 <moony> because UMS is a older copy of the baystation software, and has enough changes to make it unpleasant to port to new versions of baystation
20:44:52 <moony> its fully custom map makes other challanges, like the fact it has custom tiles.
20:46:39 <int-e> hmm, what's the right python container to use for this, http://sprunge.us/CQYT?py
20:47:40 <moony> pypy-c-sandbox should work
20:47:45 <moony> otherbot actually could run that.
20:48:06 <int-e> I mean container type, not sandbox.
20:48:42 <int-e> I suspect frozenset is a hashtable and therefore the union is expensive.
20:48:51 <shachaf> Oh, my code was obviously broken.
20:49:05 <shachaf> This is evidence that imperative code is hard and Python is confusing.
20:49:23 <int-e> but my Haskell code is imperative as well ;)
20:49:34 <moony> shachaf, i like C, it has something called 'closing brackets'
20:49:39 <moony> i know where things start and end :P
20:49:52 <shachaf> It might be clearer as a fold or something.
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20:52:03 <int-e> I could of couse use a hash table that stores the index of the first occurrence of each cumulative sum... that way the need for a persistent data structure can be avoided.
20:52:56 <shachaf> What do you think of LevelDB?
20:54:22 <shachaf> Hm, "LevelDB is widely noted for being unreliable and databases it manages are prone to corruption.[13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20]"
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20:59:54 <int-e> shachaf: and by a fold you mean something like this, right? ;-) http://lpaste.net/3488332460255608832
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21:02:04 <HackEgo> relrod_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:02:41 <izabera> then the parameter is a bit superfluous
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21:12:41 <int-e> I guess http://sprunge.us/FeSP?py is the proper imperative way to do this
21:17:04 <int-e> except that the < should be <=. so, too tricky. :)
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23:00:54 <HackEgo> west midlands//Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far.
23:01:41 <boily> hellorcah. you aren't wisdomed!
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23:17:05 <boily> so many unwisdomy people...
23:19:17 <HackEgo> Akaibu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:19:31 <shachaf> relrod: any opinions on databases?
23:21:22 <Akaibu> Heh, I've been here for months lol
23:21:40 <Akaibu> My bouncer just fucked up recently
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23:29:46 <shachaf> Well, people who have been here for months are welcome to be here.
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23:37:48 <relrod> shachaf: not really, except that all the libraries for working with them in Haskell tend to suck.
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23:38:43 <relrod> so if you're looking for a project, fix that :P
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23:41:55 <HackEgo> A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force.
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23:47:02 <Akaibu> really like the idea of the retina language, really need to code something in that for fun
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23:54:02 <HackEgo> cookie//Hackego wants a cookie! *hangs*
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23:54:27 <shachaf> relrod: what do you think of leveldb and that sort of approach
23:54:35 <shachaf> immutable but not persistent
23:59:23 <relrod> shachaf: I don't really know anything about it :(