←2017-01-08 2017-01-09 2017-01-10→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:02:58 <tswett> So I think it would make the most sense to say that the week of January 1, 1 was "week 1", and therefore an odd week.
00:03:06 <tswett> This would mean that January 1, 2001 was an even week.
00:10:53 <boily> wouldn't it be logicker to always consider the week with January 1 as always odd?
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00:40:07 <boily> `wisdom
00:40:17 <HackEgo> burma//Burma: Ask Bike
00:40:36 <boily> `wisdom
00:40:37 <HackEgo> politics//Politics: See lies.
00:41:11 <boily> `? reference
00:41:13 <HackEgo> reference is dangling, sorry.
00:41:17 <boily> ...
00:49:17 <fizzie> Odd weeks have an odd number of days, and even weeks have an even number of days.
00:49:22 <fizzie> These days most weeks are odd.
00:50:18 <boily> fizziello. are you discordian?
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00:57:21 <quintopia> helloily
00:57:34 <quintopia> boily: are you gonna be watching any gdq this week?
00:58:04 <boily> quinthellopia!
00:58:14 <boily> I ought to. I never watched any.
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01:00:45 <oerjan> bood evenily
01:01:02 <boily> bonsϿirjan!
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01:19:39 <boily> `wisdom
01:19:41 <HackEgo> http//HTTP is short for 'hipster technology trading platform'.
01:19:41 <boily> `wisdom
01:19:43 <HackEgo> cumin//Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex.
01:20:00 <boily> `cwlprits cumin
01:20:09 <HackEgo> boil̈y
01:20:28 <boily> . o O ( what the fungot was I thinking about when I wrote that... )
01:20:28 <fungot> boily: they say that the wizard has hired some help. twenty other arms came rippling out. ( van dale's groot woordenboek der nederlandse taal)
01:21:07 <boily> thinking about a twenty armed dutch wizard, apparently.
01:21:20 <oerjan> boily: my inability to see "cumin" without thinking of something very different hth
01:22:07 * boily recites a sanity mantra. “amortized... amortized... amortized...”
01:22:38 <oerjan> i see you forgot the words
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01:23:41 <boily> the weather is splitty tonight...
01:23:49 <oerjan> boily: probably twenty-two. it says _other_ arms, after all.
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01:24:45 <oerjan> are they doing maintenance or getting dos'ed...
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01:26:07 <boily> it's true that wizards have two arms on average.
01:26:25 <alercah> is it?
01:26:43 <oerjan> approximately.
01:27:14 <oerjan> i guess you are referring to the fact the average number of arms on humans is slightly less than 2...
01:28:32 <oerjan> otoh wizard would be excessively likely to add some extra.
01:28:35 <oerjan> *+s
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01:28:55 <boily> two is a good approximation to approximatively two.
01:32:49 <boily> `wisdom
01:32:50 <HackEgo> myname//myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother.
01:33:12 <boily> `wisdom
01:33:14 <HackEgo> loudly//Did you mean: loudly
01:33:24 <boily> `wisdom
01:33:27 <HackEgo> bf//See: brainfuck
01:33:38 <boily> `` rm wisdom/bf
01:33:41 <boily> *poof*!
01:33:41 <HackEgo> No output.
01:33:51 <oerjan> but but
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01:33:55 <oerjan> `cwlprits bf
01:33:57 <HackEgo> boil̈y oerjän Zarutiän
01:34:03 <boily> `revert
01:34:05 <HackEgo> Done.
01:34:11 <oerjan> `dowt bf
01:34:13 <HackEgo> 9899:2016-12-09 <Zarutiän> learn bf See: brainfuck \ 9901:2016-12-10 <oerjän> slwd bf//s,bf ,, \ 10113:2017-01-09 <boil̈y> ` rm wisdom/bf \ 10114:2017-01-09 <boil̈y> revert
01:34:35 <boily> ¡*foop*
01:36:18 <oerjan> `` \? "$(\? loudly | sed 's/.* //')"
01:36:23 <HackEgo> loudly? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:36:49 <oerjan> `slwd loudly//s/$//
01:36:54 <HackEgo> loudly//Did you mean: loudly
01:36:57 <oerjan> `` \? "$(\? loudly | sed 's/.* //')"
01:36:59 <HackEgo> loudly? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:37:35 <oerjan> `cat bin/loudly
01:37:35 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, itertools, locale, locale \ inp = len(sys.argv) >= 2 and sys.argv[1] or raw_input() \ cyc = itertools.cycle(["\00304,09","\00309,04"]) \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())
01:38:11 <oerjan> `loudly ørjan
01:38:12 <HackEgo> ørjan
01:38:17 <oerjan> ``` loudly ørjan
01:38:18 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/loudly", line 5, in <module> \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding()) \ UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
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01:40:58 <boily> `wisdom
01:40:59 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric//#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone.
01:41:24 <zzo38> Some TV cable boxes have "HD priority" feature. But I think it should also include SD priority option, and also to be able to set this option seperately for line and for recording.
01:41:28 <zzo38> s/line/live/
01:41:41 <boily> hezzo38. HD priority?
01:42:58 <zzo38> Sometimes it will automatically switch the SD channel to the HD channel or it will prompt you every time.
01:43:06 <boily> oh.
01:43:47 <oerjan> `quote cube
01:43:48 <HackEgo> 8) <Madelon> Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 889) <shachaf> FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE
01:43:56 <oerjan> `quote emptiness
01:43:56 <HackEgo> No output.
01:44:08 <oerjan> must have been terminated.
01:44:42 <quintopia> boily: so when are we going to shoot things again
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01:45:58 <boily> quintopia: yes.
01:46:20 <zzo38> To shoot what thing?
01:46:23 <shachaf> `loudly o̷rjan
01:46:24 <HackEgo> o̷rjan
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01:47:04 <quintopia> boily: exactly yes, or within a day of yes, or yes unless it needs to be postponed until maybe?
01:47:23 <boily> the postponed :/
01:47:56 <boily> zzo38: random yelling people that need to be shooted at, and a sassy droid.
01:49:09 <oerjan> <FireFly> `slwd matrix//s/Taneb/People use them to communicate. &/ <-- wat?
01:49:55 <shachaf> I don't think wisdom entries need every possible interpretation of a word in them.
01:50:15 <oerjan> it's just that i don't recognize that interpretation
01:50:20 <quintopia> you will not shoot the claptrap!
01:50:22 <oerjan> also damn lag
01:50:33 <shachaf> i assume it's matrix.org hth
01:51:04 <oerjan> okay...
01:51:13 * oerjan out of the loop
01:51:57 <oerjan> huh, `wisdom returned tachyon
01:52:22 <oerjan> i _still_ get the sense that it's unreasonably frequently returning the newest additions
01:53:01 <oerjan> `cat bin/wisdom
01:53:01 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
01:53:17 <oerjan> it's really all about shuf, i guess
01:53:22 <boily> `wisdom
01:53:23 <HackEgo> narutoverse//narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus.
01:53:36 <boily> ↑ it can also return very old wisdoms.
01:53:39 <boily> `wisdom
01:53:40 <HackEgo> stephen wolfram//Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
01:53:41 <oerjan> now it's mocking me by ... right
01:54:05 <boily> the wisdom and I have a special telepathic connection.
01:54:11 <oerjan> `dowg feather
01:54:12 <HackEgo> 10044:2016-12-30 <zgrëp> le/rn feather//A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal. \ 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:2012-04-08
01:54:44 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 10043 wisdom/feather
01:54:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/feather: no such file in rev c4871a1f40f9
01:55:06 <oerjan> `dowt feather
01:55:08 <HackEgo> 187:2012-04-07 <ellioẗt> (unknown command) \ 191:2012-04-07 <ellioẗt> (unknown command) \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 10044:2016-12-30 <zgrëp> le/rn feather//A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feath
01:55:38 <oerjan> wat
01:56:17 <oerjan> how did that unknown command happen...
01:56:42 <oerjan> `hurl wisdom/feather
01:56:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/feather
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02:01:49 <izabera> http://micsymposium.org/mics_2011_proceedings/mics2011_submission_13.pdf nice
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02:29:23 <zzo38> The character I made up for GURPS game they also have feathers, and also the scales, antenna,long beak, too.
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02:31:03 <oerjan> did freefall just do a big time jump
02:32:33 <oerjan> (big for freefall, that is)
02:32:50 <zzo38> How much is big for a free fall?
02:33:04 <oerjan> i don't know that it's ever skipped an entire day before
02:34:12 <oerjan> (i suppose they _could_ be doing the trial this fast.)
02:34:27 <oerjan> *soon
02:36:59 <Zarutian> what is free fall? an webcomic or something like that?
02:37:13 <oerjan> yes
02:37:32 <oerjan> http://freefall.purrsia.com/
02:38:05 <Zarutian> neat! it is even in the Catdom Empire!
02:38:16 <oerjan> you might not want to read that last comic first if you dislike spoilers
02:40:18 * oerjan doesn't know what the Catdom Empire is
02:41:18 <oerjan> but it's sort of furry, i guess, despite having only one furry main cast member
02:41:36 <oerjan> (and she's not a cat)
02:41:39 <\oren\> it's funny how the mechanical and metaphorical meanings of the word "overdrive" are opposite
02:41:54 <oerjan> are they?
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02:43:54 <\oren\> well yeah, it's usually implied to be an "even higher" level of power or whatver, while mechanically, an overdrive means you're reducing power to increase efficiency
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03:54:30 <tswett> You know what's funny?
03:54:47 <shachaf> I do.
03:54:53 <oerjan> yep.
03:54:54 <tswett> Good.
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07:05:01 <lifthrasiir> I have removed excess underscores by removing a now-unused client
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07:38:33 <zzo38> Why didn't IBM use the cursor blink function included in MC6845? Instead they implemented their own cursor blink logic.
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07:45:13 <hppavilion2> zzo38: They should've used <BLINK></BLINK>
07:45:52 <zzo38> I doubt they should have used HTML.
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08:43:11 <rdococ> ih
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09:22:05 <Taneb> 24 hours to my first exam of the year
09:26:48 <Taneb> Time to finally learn Algebraic Geometry
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09:29:22 <b_jonas> Taneb: ouch. how much of algebraic geometry? very advanced stuff?
09:29:52 <Taneb> b_jonas, well, I don't know what I haven't learnt, but it's a masters-level module
09:30:56 <shachaf> have you mastered it
09:31:11 <Taneb> Not yet
09:31:26 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
09:31:56 <shachaf> `? taneb
09:31:57 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
09:32:08 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
09:32:27 <b_jonas> `? tanebventions
09:32:31 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
09:32:35 <b_jonas> `? tanebventions: maths
09:32:39 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
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09:42:05 <shachaf> Taneb: are you also learning geometric algebra
09:42:14 <Taneb> shachaf, no
09:42:18 <Taneb> Gonna do that next week I think
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09:46:24 <Taneb> b_jonas, we're only dealing with affine varieties, with projective varieties in the apendix
09:47:08 <shachaf> affine place to start
11:06:07 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/aVUO Does it look a proper implementation of X resource manager to you?
11:14:57 <b_jonas> Taneb: I'm not sure what that even means, but ok
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11:40:41 <boily> `wisdom
11:40:51 <boily> `wisdom
11:40:54 <HackEgo> monads//Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.
11:40:54 <HackEgo> internet//The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
12:06:18 <rdococ> back for like an hour or so
12:06:43 <rdococ> imagine a number # whose derivative is nonzero
12:06:48 <rdococ> for every x
12:06:49 <rdococ> idk
12:06:54 <rdococ> s/idk/boron
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12:12:27 <b_jonas> yep, tunes.org logs are up now
12:12:35 <boily> rdochelloc. e^x?
12:12:44 <boily> b_jellonas.
12:17:35 <b_jonas> also, apparently if you want to make a fancy sounding prediction in English, you just have to replace " until " with " until such time as " and then what you're saying sounds more wise.
12:21:30 <rdococ> hoily
12:22:55 <rdococ> really? until such time as that is proven true, I don't think it's true for each and every case.
12:23:24 <rdococ> oh hey, it works. well, until such time as that is proven false, I agree.
12:24:29 <b_jonas> rdococ: those aren't really predictions
12:25:44 <rdococ> I know...
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12:25:57 <rdococ> it was a b_jokas
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17:02:00 <dario_> hello!
17:02:32 <dario_> I'm new here, so I would like to introduce myself to you, the community...
17:06:38 <dario_> I'm working on BitBitJump machine derivative versions.
17:07:42 <izabera> `welcome dario_
17:08:35 <HackEgo> dario_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
17:08:58 <dario_> thanks!
17:09:43 <dario_> The interesting area for BitBitJump experimentations is program code production: it's a good field for experimenting code optimizations. This is an area I feel it is related to FPGAs and URISC computing.
17:12:47 <dario_> In fact the instructions set is very reduced to one kind of instruction in 3 phases: read, write, jump.
17:14:57 <dario_> I have tested it partly with designs that include simulated logic gates and multiplexers, so I refer to the FPGA-related part of the research.
17:16:05 <dario_> Now I would like to discuss it here and to contribute to the Wiki.
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17:24:24 <rdococ> ih
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17:47:23 <rdococ> C flat
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18:07:48 <dario_> bye!
18:12:48 <rdococ> Cb
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18:37:51 <rdococ> Cb could be the opposite of C
18:38:03 <rdococ> just to throw people off
18:40:38 <shachaf> `olist 1062
18:40:48 <HackEgo> olist 1062: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
18:41:07 <shachaf> nortti: is your nick supposed to be a c++ compile-time flag twh
18:42:46 <nortti> no
18:43:06 <nortti> it's also not supposed to be a colloquial name of a tobacco brand
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18:46:41 <rdococ> where is Notepad#
18:47:40 <Zarutian> rdococ: it was deemed too sharp to be stationary, hence it was made mobile
18:47:49 <rdococ> ?
18:47:58 <rdococ> so it can cut?
18:48:20 <Zarutian> yeah but it ran out of paste
18:48:45 <rdococ> ha ha
18:50:50 <rdococ> I wonder what kinds of syntactical sugar I should add to a lambda calculus before it becomes a good esoteric programming language
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19:35:21 <rdococ> \xy.x
19:35:59 <rdococ> lambda (x, y) {x}
19:40:55 <int-e> so true
19:43:07 <rdococ> hm
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19:53:58 <rdococ> lambda (x, y) (x)
20:00:30 <int-e> The truth hurts. Have some Ackermann instead: \n. n (\f m. m f (f (\g. g))) (\n f x. n f (f x))
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20:17:50 <\oren\> I was thinking about a procedurally generated programming language. Take a large project in some form such as machine code, lamda calculus, or C, and use some algorithm to determine what pieces of code appear most frequently. Make those things the shortest commands in your language, and you have huffmann coded programming.
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20:24:00 <\oren\> the huffmann coded language might not resemble the original in any way. for maximum golfing, it would probably use the 96 printable ascii characters
20:24:40 <\oren\> as the 96 most common code snippets, and then use the unicode characters as less and less common ones
20:28:21 <\oren\> er, wait there's only 94 printable ascii characters
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21:06:51 <zzo38> In this GURPS game one character has antenna and if cut off it grants anosmia. Then what effect will a hat have on this, do you expect?
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21:16:34 <Marcela_-> hello
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22:08:08 <zzo38> Is there a program to convert PCF fonts to be optimized for one architecture?
22:21:01 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
22:21:38 <wob_jonas> OotS => pity Belkar isn't there, he understands how Klingon promotion and killing unpopular people works, he could help here in electing a captain.
22:21:58 <wob_jonas> M:tG => whoa, they're banning cards in Standard. That's not happened for ages.
22:22:29 <wob_jonas> AGDQ => YAY! they're running SUPER MONKEY BALL! A highlight of the event that they didn't have the last GDQ
22:22:31 <wob_jonas> I missed it a lot
22:22:39 <wob_jonas> crazy precision
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22:34:54 <wob_jonas> Wow, this super monkey ball speedrun is amazing
22:35:01 <wob_jonas> requires so much frame precision
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22:38:40 <\oren\> the devs of the nano editor seem to have reimplemented most of ncurses themselves
22:39:24 <myname> ew
22:39:37 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://sprunge.us/UgXJ
22:41:09 <shachaf> I don't understand it.
22:41:57 <\oren\> I'm attempting to add a new feature to nano that i laked about
22:42:03 <\oren\> talked about
22:42:37 <\oren\> iive settled on calling the feature "unicode rich display"
22:43:01 <myname> what
22:43:09 <zzo38> Read documentation if you did not understand
22:43:21 <shachaf> Why?
22:43:49 <\oren\> the idea is that you could put various subsitutions in a config file
22:44:26 <\oren\> and have the C code pow(x,2) show up onscreen as x²
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22:45:25 <\oren\> the feature doesn't necessarily involve unicode, but the intended usage does
22:46:07 <zzo38> Even such usage does not necessarily involve unicode if you are using different encodings
22:46:18 <\oren\> zzo38: good point
22:46:56 <myname> sounds a bit like vims consealing for latex
22:46:59 <zzo38> But can also be done entirely out of ASCII character and in some cases you may want to do stuff other than the character encoding such as colours and so on.
22:49:13 <\oren\> myname: yeah, that's sort of the idea
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22:51:09 <\oren\> but, you know, without it being a modal editor
22:51:36 <shachaf> vim isn't particularly modal
22:51:45 <myname> modal editors <3
22:52:00 <shachaf> Actually I don't even know what a modal editor is.
22:52:55 <\oren\> shachaf: it has modes
22:53:04 <shachaf> Like ex mode?
22:53:12 <\oren\> and insert mode
22:53:22 <shachaf> Insert mode is a lie.
22:53:28 <shachaf> There's no such thing in vim.
22:53:40 <\oren\> shachaf: it sure looks like there is
22:53:44 <myname> how so
22:53:46 <shachaf> Does it?
22:53:55 <shachaf> There are insert commands, which are esc-terminated.
22:54:04 <shachaf> For example iabc<esc> is a command that inserts the text abc.
22:54:21 <zzo38> The problem with ex mode in vim I think is that ex mode uses the alternate screen buffer; I have once wanted to use ex mode and keep the commands in the shell visible on the screen at the same time, but vim does not do that.
22:54:26 <shachaf> You can repeat commands, so 3iabc<esc> is a command that inserts the text abcabcabc
22:54:56 <shachaf> If there was such a thing as insert mode you wouldn't be able to do that.
22:55:33 <\oren\> shachaf: but i<up button><esc> doesn't insert "\033[A"
22:55:57 <shachaf> Why would you press up button in the middle of an insert command?
22:56:08 <\oren\> shachaf: to insert something somwhere else?
22:56:17 <shachaf> No, that would be a separate insert command.
22:56:27 <\oren\> shachaf: in vim you can move the cursor around while in insert mode
22:56:56 <\oren\> with the arrow butons
22:57:16 <shachaf> Seems like an odd thing to do.
22:57:30 <shachaf> I guess it has some odd features. You don't have to use them.
22:58:00 <\oren\> you're forced to use modes
22:58:04 <shachaf> Would you say vim has a "delete mode" that you enter by pressing d?
22:58:14 <zzo38> You can also switch between insert and replace mode with in either by pushing the insert key (like some other editors for PC).
22:58:32 <shachaf> After all, if you press w in "delete mode", it deletes a word, and if you press d in "delete mode", it deletes a line.
22:58:37 <shachaf> So many modes!
22:59:00 <\oren\> anyway I find ed a lot easier to use than vim
22:59:01 <shachaf> You're forced to <esc>-terminate your insert commands, because that's the command syntax.
22:59:02 <zzo38> I think d is the prefix to cause it to delete; you can also type for example dj to delete two lines, this one and below, or dk to delete this line and above.
22:59:17 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, but you can push CTRL and [ instead that also works.
22:59:34 <shachaf> zzo38: Yes, that's another way to <esc>-terminate your commands.
22:59:42 <shachaf> You can also press caps lock, which is what I do.
22:59:45 <zzo38> (Because it has the same ASCII code)
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23:02:37 <\oren\> well vim would be a lot easier to use if it had a help bar like nano does
23:02:56 <myname> use kakoune
23:03:11 <myname> it has a clippy
23:03:22 <zzo38> The use of the help bar is to get in the way.
23:03:32 <myname> most awesome feature a terminal editor can have
23:03:52 <shachaf> It would be better if it had a ribbon like Microsoft Office.
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23:05:12 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:05:13 <lambdabot> CYUL 092236Z 16012KT 15SM BKN050 BKN100 OVC140 M09/M15 A3042 RMK SC5AC2AC1 SLP305
23:06:25 <\oren\> actually, if escape leaves insert mode and dd deletes a line, then in insert mode can I press alt-d d to delete a line?
23:06:41 <zzo38> I don't like the ribbon either it also waste space
23:06:47 <\oren\> yes i can
23:07:09 <shachaf> Using vim when you believe in insert mode must be unpleasant.
23:07:27 <myname> it is not
23:07:43 <\oren\> shachaf: what do you call the state the editor is in when [INSERT] appears a tthe bottom of the terminal
23:07:53 <myname> it hardly plays any role on wether it is a mode or not
23:08:00 <shachaf> I don't call it anything.
23:08:06 <shachaf> What do you call the state when you press d?
23:08:19 <\oren\> delete mode
23:08:37 <\oren\> i dunno maybe
23:09:31 <myname> i actually couldn't care less about insert being a mode or a command
23:09:45 <shachaf> Of course it doesn't actually matter.
23:09:47 <myname> except the times i actually do 3iabc and am annoyed by it
23:10:14 <shachaf> But if you're going around, "being in insert mode", pressing the arrow keys to move around, and then you press <esc>...<i> to run commands, of course you won't like vim.
23:11:05 <myname> if you solely move witz arrow keys, i agree
23:11:07 <shachaf> Er, i, not <i>
23:11:21 * boily <iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii> ♪
23:11:24 <shachaf> i,i <i>,<i>
23:12:06 <\oren\> i mean the most common operations in editing can ll be done from insert mode, viz, writng text, moving, deleting text.
23:12:48 <myname> it just defies vim of what it's good at
23:12:51 <myname> but yeah
23:13:18 <\oren\> myname: what is it good at
23:16:20 <myname> having a grammar
23:16:30 <myname> and movement
23:17:09 <myname> but i do think kakoune is better at those
23:17:17 <myname> i just can't get started yet
23:19:38 <myname> http://kakoune.org/why-kakoune/why-kakoune.html also explains what's nice in vim
23:22:33 <\oren\> hmm but it's like I have all these F keys on top of my keyboard why can't they do things
23:23:48 <myname> most of my f keys are used by my terminal multiplexer
23:24:04 <\oren\> Nano uses them
23:24:23 <shachaf> Maybe "modal editor" means that it's the most common one.
23:24:29 <shachaf> In which case vi might be modal.
23:25:00 <\oren\> shachaf: the most common editor is probably whatever javascript devs use
23:25:21 <\oren\> these days at least
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23:26:31 <\oren\> hmm, adding this feature won't be that hard
23:29:05 <shachaf> @time fizzie
23:29:06 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Mon Jan 9 23:29:05 2017
23:36:11 <zzo38> I am using vim whether I am writing the program in C or in JavaScript or something else.
23:46:20 <boily> are there good refactoring plugins for vim? I really like Eclipse's Shift-Alt-{C,R,S,T,V} and Ctrl-1 shortcuts...
23:46:34 <shachaf> For which language?
23:47:40 <boily> Java.
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23:50:44 <boily> hppavellunbracketed1.
23:52:44 <fizzie> What's this about my local time?
23:57:28 <shachaf> Unclear.
23:59:42 <olsner> boily: that eclipse-in-vim thingy? probably sucks, but I've heard about such a thing
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